View Full Version : Reflections on Retirement, Freedom, FI, and Related Trade-offs
Recent circumstances and Pakratonia’s thread have me reflecting on retirement, FI, freedom, and the choices and trade-offs to be weighed. A couple of weeks ago, I was pretty agitated over job stress and long hours and impossible demands. I was spending a lot of time with my calculator, and had concluded that we could almost do it (“it” being for me to take early retirement and take a part time job somewhere else instead). I would be locking into a much lower pension, but my employer does pay retiree healthcare. We would have to make changes and would have a lot less leeway financially, but it could very likely be done.
A couple of weeks later, things had calmed down a bit at work, and so had I. There are a lot of things I like about my job, so it isn’t exactly a HSSJ. I work with great people, I am compensated reasonably well, I receive generous benefits, and I enjoy much of the work. We had also bumped into a needed furnace repair, a substantial auto repair, and a biggish dental bill. These made me reflect on how good it was to not be living too close to the edge. I was glad they were annoying bumps in the budget rather than the major crises they might have been if I had a substantially reduced income.
We also had one incredibly great day last weekend, which included the splurge of a nice dinner out (our only one for June) and theater tickets (Into the Woods - it was fantastic!). That had me reflecting on our personal requirements for happiness. This will differ for everyone, but Pakratonia’s scenario does sound a bit too Spartan for my taste and I think I would feel a bit resentful and deprived if I couldn’t have the occasional splurges. I am happy walking in the woods for recreation most of the time, but I like some other options in my life as well.
How do YOU assess these types of tradeoffs?
awakenedsoul
7-2-14, 6:01pm
I've always lived on a lot less money than most people. The trade off was having a career that I loved. As an artist, I really enjoy practicing, rehearsing, taking classes, and going to auditions. I knew I could never fit into the corporate world. For me, having a financial cushion has made the biggest difference. I listen to Suze Orman and follow her advice. I've just started going to the theater again a couple of times a year. I really enjoy it. My needs are pretty simple. I'd rather have the freedom I have than feel I have to stay in a job situation that is toxic. From reading your post, though, you sound like your job works for you. I think it's wise to be honest with yourself about what you need to be happy. It also helps me to write down all the positives and all the negatives.
Teacher Terry
7-2-14, 7:01pm
I agree that you need to decide what will make you happy. When I read the Mr MM website which I like I notice that many people just focus on how little they can live on so they can quit working. I think that they need to take a long term view & decide what they will be happy with for many decades. For example we love our cable & like to eat out 1x per week. WE also like to vacation & have the $ to cover our pet's vet bills so as not to have to make a decision based on $. Everyone's choices will be different. Also as you age your medical costs will definitely increase. Personally I worked longer so as to be able to enjoy these things now that I am semi-retired.
Whenever I think of such things I worry about how long I might live. I don't want to totally deprive myself, retire early, and then die too soon. So I make sure to do fun things now too. I've been working less to work on side projects, and I have things I'll spend lots of money on like food and travel. I think it's important to enjoy life along the way, and luckily I don't have super expensive tastes and dislike most shopping so that helps.
I agree that you need to decide what will make you happy. When I read the Mr MM website which I like I notice that many people just focus on how little they can live on so they can quit working. I think that they need to take a long term view & decide what they will be happy with for many decades.
Yep. I'm currently wrestling with a similar dilemma. Recently I hired a financial adviser to do a "sanity check," and he confirmed that my retirement calculations were correct: I can retire pretty much any time I like, but my income will be modest. On the one hand, I've lived frugally for years and don't expect my habits to change in any significant way. On the other, I'm still not at all sure what I'd do if I did retire and how much it might cost. Would I want to travel, work part-time, buy a house (or a houseboat)? While I'm not crazy about my job, it's not painful. I recognize the value of the structure that it puts into my days and I like my co-workers. Each month is a few more grand in the bank, and I have good bennies (not including a pension and retirement healthcare, unfortunately). And the company gym is nice.
So I agree it's more complicated than just trying to figure out how little money you can live on. You need to look at the big picture.
When I retired 10 years ago, it was having a paid for home, benefits with DH's former employer and being really content with the area that we were living in that made it all work for me to retire. I can take advantage of the senior or preview rates for most theatre or other entertainment. My wants are modest but now I want to include more travel in North America and a modest life style makes that possible.
As I said on Packratonia's thread, I have found a lot of joy and fulfillment on a pretty low budget retirement (will be 15 years in Sept!!). I am very contented with all the various free or low cost things I can do in my life now that I have the time. And while I do have a stash to access as needed, I find I rarely do (except for budget travel) and most of the things I desire in life are free. So if that stash evaporated overnight and I had to live just on my small govmint pension, couldn't travel, couldn't do more costly things, I'd still rather be retired then working longer. And I believe that I'd be just as happy and fulfilled with my life doing those free, local day to day things I enjoy. However, that life might not be for everyone so you may need to work a bit longer and save a bit more of a cushion to feel better about retiring. That will give you greater options in everything - both fun things and added expenses - and probably allow you a more comfortable lifestyle if you decided you wanted that. Or you could do the semi retired thing and just part time or seasonal as needed to refill the coffers or for more spendy things you want,
Whenever I think of such things I worry about how long I might live. I don't want to totally deprive myself, retire early, and then die too soon. .It's funny because I was just the opposite. I also worried about how long I might live but I was worried that I'd stay in a job too long, retire too late, and then get sick or die soon afterwards without ever being able able to enjoy my free time. I felt my job was what was depriving me of living a fuller, better life more so then material things like more money. I had got to that point in my life that there was nothing I wanted except free time. I had "enough" even if it wasn't much, and I just wanted to get out there and live asap. I was literally chomping at the bit and had this (common) overwhelming fear that something would happen to me before I left my job - car wrecks, disabled, death.... That constant fear was really an indicator of how ready I was to quit. I hear of too many people staying in their jobs longer then needed and then dying or becoming too ill (or old) to enjoy their retirement.
I'm enjoying reading everyone's perspectives, so thanks for sharing!
Spartana: I think you're one of the ultimate Simple Livers out there, so I always enjoy your input. I don't think I will every be as much as a minimalist as you are, but I appreciate the value you place on free time, because time is really all we have. (For me, it was a major shift in thought processes to think money = time rather than time = money).
Awakened and Razz: I think my wants are somewhat modest, but they weren't always as modest, so that has an impact on where I'm at now. We're in a pretty good place, but it would be a lot better if we had gotten this simple living thing sooner. Nothing to be done about the past though.
Terry, Oldhat and Kestra: It sounds like you all are weighing similar values and priorities. I agree with the value of structure and co-workers in the workplace mentioned by Oldhat. I also agree with the idea of having fun now and not just trying to see how low you can go as mentioned by Terry and Kestra.
I do get 7 weeks of vacation a year, which is pretty generous. We take a modest vacation every year, go to some shows, and take lots of free and fun walks in the woods. I definitely take more time to deliberate on the purchase of things in terms of whether they will really improve my happiness and whether the time/money trade-off is a favorable one. I'm finding that we're spending a lot more on experiences than things these days.
I am eligible to retire a year from September. My pension will be just a little over half of my current take home pay but I will have fairly decent paid health insurance. For about five years now, I have been banking my most of my paycheck and our expenses have been paid with dh's salary only. I am in the middle on this thought process - half scared, half can't wait to be done with being an employee. On paper, I know we can both retire but things will have to work out just right - move to lower cost of living area, maintain health, etc. and there are no guarantees, are there? The thing I am wrestling with right now is a terrible case of needing change mixed in with wanderlust. I get antsy when I hear of Spartana's freestyle way of living. I get irritated when I look at my house full of stuff that I no longer really care for. I am hoping this is just a stage of reverse adolesence as it is not a pleasant state of mind. Perhaps I just need a real vacation???
I definitely live in a constant tension between wishing I could live without money completely (a la Daniel Suelo or Heidi Marie Schwermer) and really being grateful for a very decent income--which leads me to my second tension between wishing I could work for causes I'm more passionate about vs working for big pharma.
Right now, I think I have a great balance because I'm freelance which cuts me the slack in terms of hours worked. I can at any time refuse a project, and often I get downtime that I don't have to fill with meaningless activity.
Even though I also get the stresses over work that you get and occasionally wish I could just move on from this career, when I had a dry period in January and February it made me realize I really enjoy my job, and I like using the skills I have in this job.
So I'll just go along and be grateful while I pay down debt and save.
This is what I like about this forum as opposed to the MMM style - we can have a thoughtful discussion and I don't feel I have to hide that I spend some money. We all do different things and are all trying to figure things out. I'm totally envious of Spartana's minimalist life but am fine with my own as well. Thanks everyone for hanging out here. I've been pretty busy and don't post often now but still appreciate everyone here.
I think about this a lot. My job seems to get crazier and more demanding by the year and I'm starting look forward to leaving it all behind. However, I've made a decision for this year to invest in personal strength training, which will push that retirement date ahead by a fair amount. Over the past 3 years I took a lot of fitness classes, trying the cheaper way to get stronger, but have not made progress, in fact developed an injury, so now I'm doing it the expensive but I hope more effective way. I'm *hoping* that the investment will pay off in keeping this body more functional for a longer period of time---but it does mean that "R" day is farther away. There are no perfect choices, but I think most people on these boards try very hard to make intentional decisions with careful reflection.
Spartana: I think you're one of the ultimate Simple Livers out there, so I always enjoy your input. I don't think I will every be as much as a minimalist as you are, but I appreciate the value you place on free time, because time is really all we have. (For me, it was a major shift in thought processes to think money = time rather than time = money).
Well I'm not as minimalist as I probably come across because I share my house with my sister and she has tones of stuff - but it's really all hers and I could probably fit everything I own (besides furniture) in my vehicle.
For me finding happiness in a frugal retirement has been easy because I "prefer" those inexpensive/free things over the more costly ones. So there is no trade-off or feeling of deprivation...ever. And while I was working, I wouldn't have put off enjoying my life in order to save for retirement if I was miserable doing that. In my case that didn't happen (again probably because I loved the free stuff best and did take lots of time off work to play) and it doesn't sound like you are putting your life on hold in order to get to early retirement. So if working longer gives you greater peace of mind financially, and if you aren't putting your life on hold or feeling that time is running out, then working longer is probably a good thing. Can't ever go wrong taking the time in life to be on a more secure footing and providing a better safety net for yourself. I did worry that I was steeping off some huge abyss when I quit work (didn't know I could actually retire at that time from a financial perspective), but that ended up not being the case.
Well I'm not as minimalist as I probably come across because I share my house with my sister and she has tones of stuff - but it's really all hers and I could probably fit everything I own (besides furniture) in my vehicle.
That's a good definition of minimalism--so I think you probably are as minimalist as you come across, unless your vehicle is 2000 sq.ft. :)
Gardenarian
7-7-14, 12:33pm
I have also been having lots of conflicting thoughts about retirement. I have taken the summer off to see just what it's like :)
At first I had time on my hands, but I quickly found lots of fun things to do and now feel the days are too short! In addition, I'm taking much better care of my health (I hope I keep all these healthy habits when I go back to work.) I've also been spending a lot less time on the computer...that's been a change for the better, for me.
But I don't think I'm ready to retire just yet. I miss the people at work - I'm planning on going in one day this week to share photos of my recent trip. I have reduced my hours considerably in the past few years; this coming semester I will be working three days a week, and I may reduce that to just two. So, a gradual weaning away from a regular job.
We could retire frugally right now, but we also like the occasional splurge, mostly on DD.
It's a bit different when you still have a kid at home. Our trip to England was so fun that we want to travel more.
There are also quite a few skills I'd like to learn before I retire. For example, I want to take the Earthship (http://earthship.com/)course, to learn more about environmental activism, get my second level of yoga teacher training, take some art classes, and take more landscaping/permaculture classes...there are others as well. I see retirement as a chance to take up whole-heartedly the interests I've put to the side for work and childrearing - being able to indulge my hippie fantasies of alternative architecture and gardening, as well as teaching yoga, writing, and making art.
I guess that encapsulates my main thoughts - I want to retire as a way to something better, not simply as an escape. I'm slowly feeling my way there.
Gardenarian
7-7-14, 12:41pm
Perhaps I just need a real vacation???
Pinkytoe - having a "real vacation" has been really life changing for me! I highly recommend taking some extended time off, if that is possible for you. Sure made me see things from a new angle.
iris lilies
7-7-14, 1:02pm
I have also been having lots of conflicting thoughts about retirement. I have taken the summer off to see just what it's like :)...
... I have reduced my hours considerably in the past few years; this coming semester I will be working three days a week, and I may reduce that to just two. So, a gradual weaning away from a regular job.
How do you manage to dictate to your employers the hours/days that you will work?
How do you manage to dictate to your employers the hours/days that you will work?
Make yourself invaluable I guess. I have never had any issues negotiating hours per week, days off, etc. with my three different bosses. Went from 40 to 30 and back up to 40 a few years back, and then my wish to telecomute 1-2 days has also been granted. Ditto with vacation days. I plan to go to 15-20 after I "retire". If I want a day off this week or next, I just ask. Seems to me like 9 to 5 or any sort of rigid schedule doesn't make sense anymore. I imagine someday that brick and mortar offices will start to dwindle as there are so many ways to communicate and get work done these days. And bazillions of people creating monstrous traffic because they come in and leave at the same time - dumb.
ApatheticNoMore
7-7-14, 2:52pm
Make yourself invaluable I guess.
You can make yourself more valuable. Anyone who believes they are invaluable is probably badly deluded, but you can improve skills. Here's the thing though: you have to be in a situation where employees are valued PERIOD. Mind you that is sometimes (maybe even often) the case, it's not always the case though, you'll probably intuitively know it. Some companies just treat their employees bad enough as if to say "I dare you to leave, I bet you won't .... I know you'll stay ... just try to leave ..." (don't ask me how I know - things like *mass* mailing that everyone will be getting bad reviews this year is probably a sign).
The problem with negotiating is also that noone else is doing it, really I've never seen anyone but me do it pretty much, so you'll feel rather odd, you have to be willing to be different, to swim against the current. It takes guts.
If I want a day off this week or next, I just ask.
most companies give me a hard time for not asking well in advance.
And bazillions of people creating monstrous traffic because they come in and leave at the same time - dumb.
well the hours I work are flexible to some degree (how much is not). I do the late late shift, 10:30-7 or 11:00-7:30 - the former still hits some traffic, the latter is late enough it usually avoids it. I find when I committed to 11:00-7:30 for awhile I got much better gas mileage than even 1/2 hour earlier - it's cause no traffic.
My situation what somewhat like Pinkytoe's. I had been there 26 years and my time banks were full. I was in a use it or loose it situation where I had to take off 16 hours each week. I elected to set up my schedule so that it was as if I had a part time job and I worked noon to 4/5 or 6pm Sun-Thu. The amount of time I spent depended on how enjoyable the day was. Most days were not enjoyable anymore. It was a high stress job where coworkers tended to take the stress out on each other. I had always planned on retiring at 55. When it got close I mentioned it to a few people who thought I was nuts to not stay the couple extra years and get the whole enchilada. It was a quality of life issue for me. My mom had just died and having cared for her in that last year I learned how precious time was. A lot could happen in those couple of years and I wanted out. I had been maxing my employee contributions for a long time so I was already very used to living on half of what I made or less. I knew I could do it without touching my retirement account for a long time.
The first six months were bliss and I had no regrets. The people I missed I still got together with, heard how stressful things were and didn't miss it. Then my DH had a stroke, lost his job and our insurance with it. The 12 months we were in financial lockdown because we didn't know what was going to happen. We came out 12 months later with him being approved for SSDI and knowing what we had to work with each month. I would like to say that we were lucky but so much of it wasn't luck, it was planning ahead. I didn't retire until the house was paid off. We have never had debt other than the house. Because of that we were able to live on my reduced pension until other matters worked out and since his check was retro we were able to pay back our rainy day fund. Life comes at you fast. You gotta have your mitt up.
That said, our expenses in retirement are a little different than what I expected. I worked within walking distance and walked when the weather was nice. For some reason I thought I would be driving less but I am actually driving all the time and my gas expenses are at the point I am looking at getting a hybrid. I work for two volunteer organizations that I am passionate about which fills about the same amount of time as a part time job but I'm on the road. One pays for gas and the other does not. I had a clothing allowance when working and I really had very few clothes for my off time. Now I do need other clothes and since one has me going out on police/fire scenes where I can be out in any kind of weather for hours, I need proper clothing. I am back doing my artwork and classes and supplies are spendy but I guess you could say that is how I decorate my soul.
Now that we have come through our year of being tested and even though my husband still has a level of disability, neither of us would ever want to return to a paying job on somebody else's clock. We love our volunteer work. We each take care of a remaining parent. We take care of each other. DH was given the gift of his life twice in one year. He doesn't waste one moment doing something he doesn't want to do. We don't have the take home that we did before but we actually do more things and live a life more full than we could have imagined. He wasn't going to retire for another 10 years and now we have this great time together. Our biggest expense is health care but it is doable and we still have extra each month to put in savings for unexpected expenses.
Gardenarian
7-8-14, 1:55pm
How do I dictate my hours?
I am adjunct faculty, and I have the most seniority of any part-timer in my department. I also have a terrific library director and dean. So yes, I'm very fortunate that I can pick and choose. (My boss will be retiring soon; I don't know how this will change things. There will be a complete reorganization, which may mean I'd retire sooner rather than later.)
Being nice to everyone at work and working really hard while I'm there helps too! I don't mean sucking up; I mean I take my work very seriously and it is important to me to do an excellent job, and my work relationships are honest and caring.
In general, I'd say academics have more flexibility in scheduling than folks in other fields.
I think about this a lot. My job seems to get crazier and more demanding by the year and I'm starting look forward to leaving it all behind. However, I've made a decision for this year to invest in personal strength training, which will push that retirement date ahead by a fair amount. Over the past 3 years I took a lot of fitness classes, trying the cheaper way to get stronger, but have not made progress, in fact developed an injury, so now I'm doing it the expensive but I hope more effective way. I'm *hoping* that the investment will pay off in keeping this body more functional for a longer period of time---but it does mean that "R" day is farther away. There are no perfect choices, but I think most people on these boards try very hard to make intentional decisions with careful reflection.
Funny but (again) this was one of the big factors why I choose to retire early (the biggest really). I didn't have enough time to do all the physical things I loved, found it hard to keep up my fitness level at peak by just being a "weekend warrior", and when I hit 40 started to see changes in my body I didn't like. So leaving work early allowed me to take part in more physical things (none of which cost much, if any, money) and increase my fitness level. If I had stayed at work those extra years I don't think I would have been able to retain my fitness level or play sports/do recreational activities at the level I can do now. I'm not sure why strength training should cost so much (unless you have a personal trainer and for high cost foods) that it would push back retirement, but if it's something that is worth doing and working a job more years to support it then I think that is great!
I have also been having lots of conflicting thoughts about retirement. I have taken the summer off to see just what it's like :)
At first I had time on my hands, but I quickly found lots of fun things to do and now feel the days are too short! .This was my experience also. I think it took me about a year to sort of make the most of my early retirement and get use to it. Now, like you, I feel the days (and the years of life left to me) are just too short to do everything I want to do!
our expenses in retirement are a little different than what I expected. I worked within walking distance and walked when the weather was nice. For some reason I thought I would be driving less but I am actually driving all the time and my gas expenses are at the point I am looking at getting a hybrid. I work for two volunteer organizations that I am passionate about which fills about the same amount of time as a part time job but I'm on the road. One pays for gas and the other does not. I had a clothing allowance when working and I really had very few clothes for my off time. Now I do need other clothes and since one has me going out on police/fire scenes where I can be out in any kind of weather for hours, I need proper clothing. I am back doing my artwork and classes and supplies are spendy but I guess you could say that is how I decorate my soul.
My expenses went down when I retired by a lot more then I expected - mainly due to not having to drive as much, needed fewer clothes, could do most of my own chores, meals in, etc... Plus most of my hobbies and activities are free (other then budget travel) so that helps. I actually halved them from what I expected them to be. But I know that lots of people find they have much greater expenses then they anticipated. Probably due to having the free time to do more things that cost money then they did before.
Packratona!
7-8-14, 6:01pm
Recent circumstances and Pakratonia’s thread have me reflecting on retirement, FI, freedom, and the choices and trade-offs to be weighed. A couple of weeks ago, I was pretty agitated over job stress and long hours and impossible demands. I was spending a lot of time with my calculator, and had concluded that we could almost do it (“it” being for me to take early retirement and take a part time job somewhere else instead). I would be locking into a much lower pension, but my employer does pay retiree healthcare. We would have to make changes and would have a lot less leeway financially, but it could very likely be done.
A couple of weeks later, things had calmed down a bit at work, and so had I. There are a lot of things I like about my job, so it isn’t exactly a HSSJ. I work with great people, I am compensated reasonably well, I receive generous benefits, and I enjoy much of the work. We had also bumped into a needed furnace repair, a substantial auto repair, and a biggish dental bill. These made me reflect on how good it was to not be living too close to the edge. I was glad they were annoying bumps in the budget rather than the major crises they might have been if I had a substantially reduced income.
We also had one incredibly great day last weekend, which included the splurge of a nice dinner out (our only one for June) and theater tickets (Into the Woods - it was fantastic!). That had me reflecting on our personal requirements for happiness. This will differ for everyone, but Pakratonia’s scenario does sound a bit too Spartan for my taste and I think I would feel a bit resentful and deprived if I couldn’t have the occasional splurges. I am happy walking in the woods for recreation most of the time, but I like some other options in my life as well.
How do YOU assess these types of tradeoffs?
Fascinating thread, rosarugosa. By the way, my member name is Packratona!, not Pakratonia. But I take it as a compliment that my thread on "Freedom!" sparked your thoughts. There are tradeoffs of course with quitting any job or retiring. And it is always good to consider the pros and cons well before making the move to leave, if you can, as well as other options. For us, our health and safety was the deciding factor. When work becomes so stressful that it is wrecking your health and making you miserable most of the time, it is time to leave. It does not sound to me like you are there yet. It is funny that my scenario sounds Spartan to you. I don't feel it like that at all. I "feel" pretty wealthy and feel like I lead a rich life. However, we are slowing down and taking a break for a while just because we want to. Kind of like a "staycation". Later after we get settled we will go on some trips and do some things, and in fact have reservations for a camping trip with our adult kids to a fabulous location in December! But for now we are getting joy out of cleaning, repairing, decuttering to make our lives simpler.
Packratona!
7-8-14, 6:03pm
"I'd rather have the freedom I have than feel I have to stay in a job situation that is toxic."
Agree with everything you said here awakened soul. Especially this comment!
Packratona!
7-8-14, 6:07pm
" I think it's important to enjoy life along the way,"
I agree with this. I know some people who their work is their whole life, all their lives. When they finally retire they are miserable because they never developed close relationships, or other hobbies or skills. They just sit around an watch tv all day.
Teacher Terry
7-8-14, 7:17pm
Retirement means so many different things for many people. No one really knows how it will be for them until they experience it.
awakenedsoul
7-8-14, 8:17pm
"I'd rather have the freedom I have than feel I have to stay in a job situation that is toxic."
Agree with everything you said here awakened soul. Especially this comment!
Thanks Packratona! I am now teaching once a week, and I like the extra money. It is challenging, because one of the women is very controlling and wants a lot of extras. But, most of the women are easy to teach, and very nice. I tell myself, "Nobody's perfect. No situation is perfect." They pay me on time, and I like what I do.
Simplemind, Your story is really important. None of us knows what the future holds. Health is a big deal. I thought I'd be working full time into my seventies, but this turned out to be more cost effective. I like having the time to garden, clean house, cook, bake, do yoga, etc. I also like working part time, and not being so exhausted.
Packratona!
7-9-14, 7:05am
Thanks Packratona! I am now teaching once a week, and I like the extra money. It is challenging, because one of the women is very controlling and wants a lot of extras. But, most of the women are easy to teach, and very nice. I tell myself, "Nobody's perfect. No situation is perfect." They pay me on time, and I like what I do.
Simplemind, Your story is really important. None of us knows what the future holds. Health is a big deal. I thought I'd be working full time into my seventies, but this turned out to be more cost effective. I like having the time to garden, clean house, cook, bake, do yoga, etc. I also like working part time, and not being so exhausted.
Good, what kind of thing do you teach, if I might ask? I can really relate to your last sentence. I can remember one of my big reasons I wanted to retire early, was so I could get a full night's sleep, wake up when I wanted to, and take a nap whenever I was tired. Right now we are really enjoying a more natural sleep cycle, going to bed when it gets dark and rising when the sun first starts coming up. This means about 9 or so to bed, and waking up at 4 or 5. Once in a while we wake up even earlier but only because we are rested enough; our body tells us to wake up. If we get tired in the afternoon, either of us can lay down for a short nap and it totally refreshes us. When you think about it, many people really do live a very gruelling schedule; I did when I commuted 2 hours a day, worked a full-time stressful job 5 days a week, started a second stressful shift as soon as I got home raising kids. When it got so stressful at work that I was not sleeping well nights, it became impossible and dangerous. But of course, giving up top notch health benefits for the entire family, a highly secure well-paying job, etc. was not an easy decision. I am like you that I love doing things around the house, and loved having time for my kids once I quit. I worked for 25 years. One point to all: retirement does NOT mean no longer working. It just means having the freedom to work for yourself and your family, on your own terms, with direct benefit to you and those you care about. Baking bread, gardening, cutting my husband's hair, and many other things are work. But when I want to rest, I can. That is a wonderful gift!
Packratona!
7-9-14, 7:09am
This was my experience also. I think it took me about a year to sort of make the most of my early retirement and get use to it. Now, like you, I feel the days (and the years of life left to me) are just too short to do everything I want to do!
I have heard so many people who are retired say that they couldn't possibly go back to work because they are too busy! No time to work! It's something you don't understand until you do retire.
Packratona!
7-9-14, 7:17am
I definitely live in a constant tension between wishing I could live without money completely (a la Daniel Suelo or Heidi Marie Schwermer) and really being grateful for a very decent income--which leads me to my second tension between wishing I could work for causes I'm more passionate about vs working for big pharma.
Right now, I think I have a great balance because I'm freelance which cuts me the slack in terms of hours worked. I can at any time refuse a project, and often I get downtime that I don't have to fill with meaningless activity.
Even though I also get the stresses over work that you get and occasionally wish I could just move on from this career, when I had a dry period in January and February it made me realize I really enjoy my job, and I like using the skills I have in this job.
So I'll just go along and be grateful while I pay down debt and save.
Definitely pay down all your debt before you quit.
Packratona!
7-9-14, 7:26am
This is what I like about this forum as opposed to the MMM style - we can have a thoughtful discussion and I don't feel I have to hide that I spend some money. We all do different things and are all trying to figure things out. I'm totally envious of Spartana's minimalist life but am fine with my own as well. Thanks everyone for hanging out here. I've been pretty busy and don't post often now but still appreciate everyone here.
My kids are starting out independent lives with a whole lot more knowledge of how to handle finances that when I did, they learned from us. One thing I have taught them when they worry about spending money on something, is that they should not necessarily feel guilty about that. What is NOT important to them, they should NOT waste money on. Doing that will enable them to have the money to spend on what IS important to them. I always give them examples. I also encourage them to think about not "always" spending money on something they don't care about, just because other people think you should. And it works the other way too: don't feel bad about spending money where you really want to spend it just because someone else thinks it is a ridiculous waste of money. That being said, I do get on their cases about spending all that money on manicures at the salon...GRRR! What is one man's garbage, is another one's treasure. Or something like that...
Packratona!
7-9-14, 8:30am
It's funny because I was just the opposite. I also worried about how long I might live but I was worried that I'd stay in a job too long, retire too late, and then get sick or die soon afterwards without ever being able able to enjoy my free time. I felt my job was what was depriving me of living a fuller, better life more so then material things like more money. I had got to that point in my life that there was nothing I wanted except free time. I had "enough" even if it wasn't much, and I just wanted to get out there and live asap. I was literally chomping at the bit and had this (common) overwhelming fear that something would happen to me before I left my job - car wrecks, disabled, death.... That constant fear was really an indicator of how ready I was to quit. I hear of too many people staying in their jobs longer then needed and then dying or becoming too ill (or old) to enjoy their retirement.
Excellent points all Spartana. My husband and I before each of us retiring had fears of dying before we could retired. It is a sign I think, that pointed which way to go. And yes I went through the exact same thing before I retired, that the job was keeping me from enjoying life and doing the things that mattered most to me.
Packratona!
7-9-14, 8:37am
I am eligible to retire a year from September. My pension will be just a little over half of my current take home pay but I will have fairly decent paid health insurance. For about five years now, I have been banking my most of my paycheck and our expenses have been paid with dh's salary only. I am in the middle on this thought process - half scared, half can't wait to be done with being an employee. On paper, I know we can both retire but things will have to work out just right - move to lower cost of living area, maintain health, etc. and there are no guarantees, are there? The thing I am wrestling with right now is a terrible case of needing change mixed in with wanderlust. I get antsy when I hear of Spartana's freestyle way of living. I get irritated when I look at my house full of stuff that I no longer really care for. I am hoping this is just a stage of reverse adolesence as it is not a pleasant state of mind. Perhaps I just need a real vacation???
If you have wanderlust and need a change, quitting your job ("retiring") will enable you to delcutter your home, get rid of all that stuff so that you CAN move when you want. That is what we are doing. It is quite a long time consuming process actually. When the job takes over so much of your time that you don't have the energy or time to do this, it is time to think about quitting. Otherwise, the stuff and the job owns you. Time to break free! A vacation is not long enough.
Packratona!
7-9-14, 8:44am
I definitely live in a constant tension between wishing I could live without money completely (a la Daniel Suelo or Heidi Marie Schwermer) and really being grateful for a very decent income--which leads me to my second tension between wishing I could work for causes I'm more passionate about vs working for big pharma.
Right now, I think I have a great balance because I'm freelance which cuts me the slack in terms of hours worked. I can at any time refuse a project, and often I get downtime that I don't have to fill with meaningless activity.
Even though I also get the stresses over work that you get and occasionally wish I could just move on from this career, when I had a dry period in January and February it made me realize I really enjoy my job, and I like using the skills I have in this job.
So I'll just go along and be grateful while I pay down debt and save.
Definitely pay off all debt before retirement. And now is the time to practice depending less on money. Think twice before handing over money that you have earned from working at a job, to someone to do something for you that you could do or learn to do yourself. Or do without. And fantasize about the day when you will be able to do that even more.
Packratona!
7-9-14, 8:54am
My situation what somewhat like Pinkytoe's. I had been there 26 years and my time banks were full. I was in a use it or loose it situation where I had to take off 16 hours each week. I elected to set up my schedule so that it was as if I had a part time job and I worked noon to 4/5 or 6pm Sun-Thu. The amount of time I spent depended on how enjoyable the day was. Most days were not enjoyable anymore. It was a high stress job where coworkers tended to take the stress out on each other. I had always planned on retiring at 55. When it got close I mentioned it to a few people who thought I was nuts to not stay the couple extra years and get the whole enchilada. It was a quality of life issue for me. My mom had just died and having cared for her in that last year I learned how precious time was. A lot could happen in those couple of years and I wanted out. I had been maxing my employee contributions for a long time so I was already very used to living on half of what I made or less. I knew I could do it without touching my retirement account for a long time.
The first six months were bliss and I had no regrets. The people I missed I still got together with, heard how stressful things were and didn't miss it. Then my DH had a stroke, lost his job and our insurance with it. The 12 months we were in financial lockdown because we didn't know what was going to happen. We came out 12 months later with him being approved for SSDI and knowing what we had to work with each month. I would like to say that we were lucky but so much of it wasn't luck, it was planning ahead. I didn't retire until the house was paid off. We have never had debt other than the house. Because of that we were able to live on my reduced pension until other matters worked out and since his check was retro we were able to pay back our rainy day fund. Life comes at you fast. You gotta have your mitt up.
That said, our expenses in retirement are a little different than what I expected. I worked within walking distance and walked when the weather was nice. For some reason I thought I would be driving less but I am actually driving all the time and my gas expenses are at the point I am looking at getting a hybrid. I work for two volunteer organizations that I am passionate about which fills about the same amount of time as a part time job but I'm on the road. One pays for gas and the other does not. I had a clothing allowance when working and I really had very few clothes for my off time. Now I do need other clothes and since one has me going out on police/fire scenes where I can be out in any kind of weather for hours, I need proper clothing. I am back doing my artwork and classes and supplies are spendy but I guess you could say that is how I decorate my soul.
Now that we have come through our year of being tested and even though my husband still has a level of disability, neither of us would ever want to return to a paying job on somebody else's clock. We love our volunteer work. We each take care of a remaining parent. We take care of each other. DH was given the gift of his life twice in one year. He doesn't waste one moment doing something he doesn't want to do. We don't have the take home that we did before but we actually do more things and live a life more full than we could have imagined. He wasn't going to retire for another 10 years and now we have this great time together. Our biggest expense is health care but it is doable and we still have extra each month to put in savings for unexpected expenses.
Excellent post Simplemind.
Definitely pay down all your debt before you quit.
Don't take this the wrong way but, duh.. of course I won't stop working until my debt is paid. I am working now like crazy JUST to service my debt unfortunately (long story but almost a ridiculous one).
I have already "quit" in terms of my corporate job, but I make just as much if not more freelancing, so that's why I feel REALLY grateful to be able to feel some freedom and yet still pay off the debt. If I could liquidate my real estate that would take care of everything, but those "attachments" that the Buddha talks about tie DH, and me to a lesser extent, to this slavery. (He loves the house and doesn't want to sell--I fear I use him as the scapegoat because while I am much less attached, I can fall back on 'oh, I would move but he doesn't want to.')
As for spending less, I could do more, but I'm pretty frugal. Make my own cleaning products, haven't bought clothes all year, use shampoo I get from hotels in business travel, eat no meat, grow vegetables, do not entertain, clean my own house, and maintain as much of my own stuff as I can.
awakenedsoul
7-9-14, 12:32pm
Packratona, I teach tap there. But, I just resigned this morning. It was really starting to wear me down. Yesterday one of the women brought her ipad in and wanted to videotape my choreography. I told her nicely that I don't allow that. She got very angry and became bossy and demanding. I told her that she could write it down. With technology, many of these women have lost their memorization skills. I reteach them everything every week, but some of them don't retain it. It would be fine, but they get demanding and want me to write it all down for them. The pay is very low, too. Also, I have people walking through the class at least 15 times in an hour. It's really distracting. I put up signs saying Please do not disturb, but they come through anyway. So, it's time for me to move on....
I feel relieved that I have enough money to be home and not "have" to work. Spent a lot of time in the garden this morning. I'll get some housekeeping done, and take a swim later. I'm shocked at how different our culture is now, in relation to teachers. I'm sure glad I don't need to teach to pay my bills anymore.
I'm shocked at how different our culture is now
I think the cultural changes are across the board. With all the communication modes people use now, they are forgetting or unlearning so many basic human "skills" - how to respect others, how to be patient, how to have a basic conversation face to face and on and on. When I drop out of the work world in a year, I worry a bit about staying in real touch with people - not just FB.
Packratona!
7-9-14, 1:53pm
Packratona, I teach tap there. But, I just resigned this morning. It was really starting to wear me down. Yesterday one of the women brought her ipad in and wanted to videotape my choreography. I told her nicely that I don't allow that. She got very angry and became bossy and demanding. I told her that she could write it down. With technology, many of these women have lost their memorization skills. I reteach them everything every week, but some of them don't retain it. It would be fine, but they get demanding and want me to write it all down for them. The pay is very low, too. Also, I have people walking through the class at least 15 times in an hour. It's really distracting. I put up signs saying Please do not disturb, but they come through anyway. So, it's time for me to move on....
I feel relieved that I have enough money to be home and not "have" to work. Spent a lot of time in the garden this morning. I'll get some housekeeping done, and take a swim later. I'm shocked at how different our culture is now, in relation to teachers. I'm sure glad I don't need to teach to pay my bills anymore.
Good for you for quitting awakenedsoul, and that you have managed to make it possible economically. Yes the culture is indeed very different now and still changing rapidly.
Packratona!
7-9-14, 1:56pm
I think the cultural changes are across the board. With all the communication modes people use now, they are forgetting or unlearning so many basic human "skills" - how to respect others, how to be patient, how to have a basic conversation face to face and on and on. When I drop out of the work world in a year, I worry a bit about staying in real touch with people - not just FB.
Well it is an adjustment; but I find I have way more quality social contact now, retired than I ever did when I worked. But you will have to reach out in new ways.
Good for you for quitting awakenedsoul, and that you have managed to make it possible economically. Yes the culture is indeed very different now and still changing rapidly.
I also second the "good for you Awakenedsoul". The things you do in life - at least those you do by choice - should bring you joy and excitement, not make you feel bad. I'm sure that you will find another class to teach to people who will be more appreciative of your skills and your desire to teach. Until then - enjoy!!
awakenedsoul
7-9-14, 2:13pm
I think the cultural changes are across the board. With all the communication modes people use now, they are forgetting or unlearning so many basic human "skills" - how to respect others, how to be patient, how to have a basic conversation face to face and on and on. When I drop out of the work world in a year, I worry a bit about staying in real touch with people - not just FB.
I know what you mean. It was weird going back. A lot of technology is convenient, but it also (in my opinion) weakens the muscles and habits you need for learning. People get so used to pushing a button and getting what they want, immediately. They can order everything on line. I don't do Facebook, but with some people I know, that's the only way they will communicate. (So we don't anymore...)
Well it is an adjustment; but I find I have way more quality social contact now, retired than I ever did when I worked. But you will have to reach out in new ways.
I also have more quality social contacts now then I did before I retired because I have more time now to actually spend with people, do activities with them, and work my time around their work schedules - and almost all of my social contacts have involed "doing things" together rather then just talking so never connected to people via FB or even e-mails, always in person. But on the other hand, because I retired in my early 40's and am now in my 50's, most people I have known - and most new people I meet - still work full time and THEY don't have the time. But I've found that isn't too much of a problem as there always seems to be someone - and often large groups of someones - to play with everyday if I want :-)!
awakenedsoul
7-9-14, 2:16pm
Good for you for quitting awakenedsoul, and that you have managed to make it possible economically. Yes the culture is indeed very different now and still changing rapidly.
Thanks Pacratona! I'm fortunate to have the choice. Fortunately, the things that make me happy are relatively cheap or free. Tracking my expenses really helps, too.
awakenedsoul
7-9-14, 2:20pm
I also second the "good for you Awakenedsoul". The things you do in life - at least those you do by choice - should bring you joy and excitement, not make you feel bad. I'm sure that you will find another class to teach to people who will be more appreciative of your skills and your desire to teach. Until then - enjoy!!
Thanks Spartana. I really enjoyed several of the women. But, overall, it was a chaotic environment. Children are okay if they miss a step or two...they like the challenge and they don't judge themselves. A few of these women were the opposite. Even though they were doing well, they wanted to run the show.
I feel much better since I resigned. Hopefully I'll find a healthier outlet. Until then, I'll just tap in my kitchen to my favorite Big Band swing music.
Packratona!: Your scenario does sound a bit too Spartan for me, but that’s OK because it’s your retirement! There is no reason in the world why YOUR retirement should perfectly fulfill MY desires. I suspect my fulltime worker lifestyle is too Spartan for some, since we do without many of the modern “necessities,” and it might be too spendy for others. It’s all a big continuum of time/money tradeoffs, and probably no two people will see it exactly the same way. That’s why I started this thread, so I could ask about different perspectives on that tradeoff continuum. I do think it’s important for each of us to sit down and think about our own personal recipes for fulfillment. If I retire too soon and cannot afford to ever make the occasional splurges that I enjoy, I probably won’t be very happy and I need to recognize that, and also realize this will probably keep me in the workforce longer. If working for a few more years at a job I mostly like most of the time will allow me the occasional seafood dinners and theater tickets, then that might be an OK tradeoff for me. I just think it’s important to have my eyes open, and not, for example wish I had someone else’s earlier retirement but be totally unwilling to make the tradeoffs that enabled that early retirement. On the other hand, all the seafood dinners and theater tickets in the world probably couldn't persuade Spartana to take my corporate job, and that’s OK too!
Hey Spartana,
Appreciate your response. You seem to have figured out a great system that works for you. I always read your posts and think about what you say. It sounds like you are able to stay at a good fitness level with free or low cost activities, so it makes perfect sense to be retired and stay fit that way.
In my situation, my body is semi-trashed from having been treated for cancer and from a life of NOT exercising, so I think that is why I am feeling a need for getting involved with weights, which take a more specialized type of instruction and guidance. I am content to keep working longer to do this but do not feel great about the cost. I'll be seeing my doctor later this month and getting some tests that I hope will give me some clarity on what is happening with this body and what it really needs.
Thanks again for your comment.
On the other hand, all the seafood dinners and theater tickets in the world probably couldn't persuade Spartana to take my corporate job, and that’s OK too!
So true! But to be fair I don't actually enjoy dining out or theater very much anyways - as you'd know if you saw the claw marks I leave behind when people drag out to something like that while I'm screaming "noooooooooooooooo" all the way - especially of I have to change out of my shorts and tee shirts and dress up (oh the HORROR :-)!.
Hey Spartana,
Appreciate your response. You seem to have figured out a great system that works for you. I always read your posts and think about what you say. It sounds like you are able to stay at a good fitness level with free or low cost activities, so it makes perfect sense to be retired and stay fit that way.
In my situation, my body is semi-trashed from having been treated for cancer and from a life of NOT exercising, so I think that is why I am feeling a need for getting involved with weights, which take a more specialized type of instruction and guidance. I am content to keep working longer to do this but do not feel great about the cost. I'll be seeing my doctor later this month and getting some tests that I hope will give me some clarity on what is happening with this body and what it really needs.
Thanks again for your comment.Sorry to hear about your cancer Rachel - I can understand why, after dealing with all that, you'd want to have profession weight training and would be willing to stay working longer to accomplish that goal. I have some female friends who are serious competitive body builders and I know the level of cost and dedication they deal with all the time. Can be very demanding. I like to lift weights too but just do some at the gym on machines. Nothing serious. It's great for building not only muscles, but bone density too. Something I imagine is important to do after chemo and/or radiation treatments. Good luck and keep us posted about your training.
rosarugosa
7-10-14, 4:57am
Spartana: We go to the theater in jeans, and tend towards things like "Avenue Q," which featured Muppets who swear and have sex. So nothing too fancy! We do eat most of our meals at home, but we need a good source for live clams to make steamed clams at home. Out grocery store's fresh clams aren't very good (although it's a great grocery store in most other respects and they have great deals on fresh lobster).
I definitely appreciate the points made about having more time to spend on live friendship interactions after retirement. I think that's something that gets shorter shrift from me now than it deserves, although it's something I work on.
Rachel: That's an excellent example of a good reason for working longer - hopefully it will yield you a healthier happier life in the long run!
Packratona!
7-10-14, 8:25am
So true! But to be fair I don't actually enjoy dining out or theater very much anyways - as you'd know if you saw the claw marks I leave behind when people drag out to something like that while I'm screaming "noooooooooooooooo" all the way - especially of I have to change out of my shorts and tee shirts and dress up (oh the HORROR :-)!.
Pretty funny Spartana! I also don't really like to eat out any more, and only do it when someone practically forces me to. I worry a little about what they are doing to the food back in the kitchen. Also while I eat I am constantly thinking about what I could do with the money spent on the meal. I like to eat healthy, clean and love to cook. So that makes me not want to eat out. I absolutely love, however, cooking for others, and going to eat at my friends' houses also who cook similarly to the way I do.
Dressing up I am not crazy about doing either; when I go out I can't wait to get back into my shorts, sleeveless t shirts and take off the shoes. Makes life SO much simpler and more pleasant! Theater: I do enjoy those however do not indulge too much due to the high cost. I would rather spend it on something else. What I do splurge on is in country and international travel, that is, when I get enough saved up by not eating out and going to shows, among other things. And frankly, we have spent a ton of money on our 3 kids, all 3 have college degrees, and we just had two weddings last year. That all ads up. Weddings, college educations, travel are all expensive. Sometimes we can be criticised for being frugal on things that other people think we should be spending money on, that they think is important. What is important is to spend money thoughtfully, and be cautious of getting caught up in the cultural expectations which are often driven by advertising. Most of the people on this forum are interested in some day being financially independent. In order to do that, we all need to make careful choices, and not let others' desires influence our decisions too much and derail our efforts.
"Avenue Q," which featured Muppets who swear and have sex!HAHAHA OMG that is so funny. Sounds like my kind of "theater"! I will admit a deep love of the ballet, and dance in general, (waving "hi" to Awakenedsoul!) and had thought of getting season tickets for that. But in the end, like most of the things we all do here, I decided that the cost wasn't worth the trade-off for me as I am not around enough to go often. Same with other things like season ski passes. Over the years I've been retired (going on 15 - wow) I've pretty much worked thru all the trade-offs and have found, for me, that I'd still rather go without certain things (like season passes to the Ballet) then have to spend more time working to have them. Doesn't mean I don't get to see live dance, but do it less often (the annual "Nutcracker" thing) or find less expensive venues to see it (or watch "So You Think You Can Dance" on TV :-)!). I just know that every morning for the past almost 15 years as I go for my early morning workout, I see so many unhappy rushed people, big traffic back ups, etc... and know I never want to be part of that again. I do sometime miss my job, but not for financial or social reasons, but for the job itself which I liked and found interesting and very rewarding. But other wise there are many things I like and am able to do and have in life right now (like travel) that I would give up if keeping or doing them meant I had to work to have them. But everyone's mileage varies - and that's a good thing.
ETA: I am fortunate in that I actually DO have the extra money to indulge in a lot of different things if I wanted to but I generally don't want to even if I could afford it. There are many other things I like more - that happen to be free or low cost - then expensive things so with the limited time I have each day I'd rather spend it doing I things I really enjoy. So my Spartan life is less because of money, and more because that's the way I prefer to live and would live that way even if I had millions.
awakenedsoul
7-10-14, 2:08pm
It's definitely a trade-off. I love the ballet, but I don't go to see it, either. I may add that back in my budget someday, if I feel I can afford it. You can get DVD's from the library from Kulture. My favorites are Stars of the Russian Ballet. Some of my teachers are on those tapes. They are incredibly trained...
Theater has changed a lot, and I'm picky about what I see. I bought tickets to The Book of Mormon, and was horrified. Great reviews for a show I would not have gone to see had I known the content and subject. Now, I do a lot of research. I passed on season tickets at the Pantages, even though the price was excellent. I don't want to pay to see what to me is a drag show. I like old Broadway...beautiful women, lots of dancing, trained voices, and excellent direction. Otherwise, I'll save my money. Vegas also has good deals. (But you pay for the trip.) Saw Jersey Boys there and loved it.
I still dress up to see a show. To me, it's fun. I don't get to wear my nicest clothes that often. When I was performing, the old stars and older performers always dressed beautifully on travel days. They looked so nice at the airport. I followed their example. It was a different era.
I don't have the theatre/dance pedigree that awakenedsoul does, but it took up a lot of my younger years--as a theatre major, I studied at RADA (the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art), and I had such a passion for everything about it--the whole idea that you can take an empty space and through collaboration and a variety of talent and skills create magic.
DH and I went to see my very favorite play, Our Town, which I've seen many, many productions of, and I was so disheartened to be in the audience and feel as if I were in a nursing home. No one seemed younger than 50. Are no "young'uns" going to the theatre these days?? I still feel it's very relevant, despite the multiple other modes of entertainment and culture.
Packratona!
7-10-14, 2:28pm
HAHAHA OMG that is so funny. Sounds like my kind of "theater"! I will admit a deep love of the ballet, and dance in general, (waving "hi" to Awakenedsoul!) and had thought of getting season tickets for that. But in the end, like most of the things we all do here, I decided that the cost wasn't worth the trade-off for me as I am not around enough to go often. Same with other things like season ski passes. Over the years I've been retired (going on 15 - wow) I've pretty much worked thru all the trade-offs and have found, for me, that I'd still rather go without certain things (like season passes to the Ballet) then have to spend more time working to have them. Doesn't mean I don't get to see live dance, but do it less often (the annual "Nutcracker" thing) or find less expensive venues to see it (or watch "So You Think You Can Dance" on TV :-)!). I just know that every morning for the past almost 15 years as I go for my early morning workout, I see so many unhappy rushed people, big traffic back ups, etc... and know I never want to be part of that again. I do sometime miss my job, but not for financial or social reasons, but for the job itself which I liked and found interesting and very rewarding. But other wise there are many things I like and am able to do and have in life right now (like travel) that I would give up if keeping or doing them meant I had to work to have them. But everyone's mileage varies - and that's a good thing.
ETA: I actually DO have the extra money to indulge in a lot of different things if I wanted to but I generally don't want to even if I could afford it. Other things I like more - that happen to be free or low cost - so with the limited time I have each day I'd rather spend it doing I things I really enjoy. So my Spartan life is less because of money, and more because that's the way I prefer to live and would live that way even if I had millions.
Very well put, especially your last two sentences, loved it! Exactly how I feel. Now that I am no longer working, I have much more opportunity to choose to do exactly what I want to do. And most of the time these things are low cost or no cost. Time is finite, money is not.
I don't have the theatre/dance pedigree that awakenedsoul does, but it took up a lot of my younger years--as a theatre major, I studied at RADA (the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art), and I had such a passion for everything about it--the whole idea that you can take an empty space and through collaboration and a variety of talent and skills create magic.
DH and I went to see my very favorite play, Our Town, which I've seen many, many productions of, and I was so disheartened to be in the audience and feel as if I were in a nursing home. No one seemed younger than 50. Are no "young'uns" going to the theatre these days?? I still feel it's very relevant, despite the multiple other modes of entertainment and culture.
I don't go to plays (being nearly deaf doesn't help much toward enjoying - or understanding - them much :-)! but I have noticed that at most of the foreign (i.e. subtitled) films I go to there are LOTS of young hipsters there. So maybe they shy away from the expensive theater productions and musicals (another thing I don't enjoy much) and opt more for less expensive and/or edgy film Noir, concerts, readings, and any place with expensive coffee. Well I guess they always did that :-)!
Did one of your kids use to be an actor? TV or movies though rather then theater if I remember correctly. Very cool that the kids follows in Mom's footstep ...er...limelights :-)!
I budget theatre, ballet and opera tickets and choose preview rates or senior rates or the cheap seats and love every minute of them. You are right that it is mostly grey hair at these events but I had considered that it was mostly the timing for the senior's limited budget.
Awakened, it was interesting to me that the younger crowd was out in full force for Book of Mormon which was a blah kind of show in playwriting but I loved the staging, the timing and the exuberance of the company.
I make a point of attending as many HD productions of the ballet and Metopera as I can and they are superb with the added bonus of the interviews to enhance my knowledge and understanding. I watched the interviews with the ballet production of Alice In Wonderland on HD as the choreographer talked about the challenges of synchronizing ballet with tap dancing partners in one scene. I think that this is available on DVD as my sister borrowed it from her library.
At Stratford Festival, there is a production of Alice Through the Looking Glass that brought out lots of children who were really enjoying it but what worked for kids is brilliant visuals. The productions have to change to attract different ages and interests.
There are definitely trade-offs to be made choosing what interests one and often they are free or very modest in cost. A treat for me is going into garden centres and seeing what is coming on the market in colour and hybrid development. I don't buy but do enjoy the displays and the lushness especially on a cloudy or cold day.
catherine
7-11-14, 10:05am
Did one of your kids use to be an actor? TV or movies though rather then theater if I remember correctly. Very cool that the kids follows in Mom's footstep ...er...limelights :-)!
Yes, we had no intention to do it, but my son and daughter stumbled into acting when they were very young, and they were literally "discovered" by a NY agent sitting in the audience at a regional theatre production. Within a year, my son had done a commercial, a play at Lincoln Center, and a movie (King of the Hill, a little-known but fantastic movie by Steven Soderbergh--iris lillies recently informed me that it might be available on Netflix soon). He was also in a couple of other movies. DD was in the 1994 movie version of Lassie, and she also did a couple of commercials, a gig on SNL, three off-Broadway plays and a play at Lincoln Center.
Neither of them act now--they've moved on to other things, but I was proud of the specific experiences they had--they have worked with amazing talents and genuinely nice, caring people (no Hollywood egos in the bunch, believe it or not), and all that auditioning, if nothing else, has prepared them to be GREAT job interviewees!!
Gardenarian
7-11-14, 3:09pm
What a great experience for them Catherine!
awakenedsoul
7-11-14, 5:54pm
Yes, that's wonderful. I've met some incredible people in theater. Some of them are still my close friends after almost 30 years! Many of the guys I danced with are now top Broadway choreographers and directors. It's exciting to see their success.
I wonder if many people are considering retiring earlier because of the costs of healthcare, etc. It's definitely been cheaper for me to stay home, but not always as exciting. It's a delicate balance.
awakenedsoul
7-11-14, 5:59pm
[QUOTE=razz;179548]
Awakened, it was interesting to me that the younger crowd was out in full force for Book of Mormon which was a blah kind of show in playwriting but I loved the staging, the timing and the exuberance of the company.
Yes, I did, too. There were many talented performers. I'm glad they're working. Some of the numbers were clever, and I thought the casting was excellent.
I was surprised at how many younger people were at The Pantages. I've been getting emails for discounted seats since then...they are very reasonable. ($35.00.)
There's something about seeing quality theater and having nice meals that makes me feel rich. I don't like the feeling of scrimping and only buying the bare basics. But, I can do that on $20,000. or less a year, which isn't bad...
Thanks--the cancer seems to have been wiped out. I was out of work for 2 years, lost my job, the whole 9 yards. I am so lucky to be here still and to have my hair back and to have another job that I like.
I'm no body-builder, just want to have enough strength to feel good---and to keep these bones functioning as long as possible. Even now, 8 years after the cancer, it feels ***amazing*** to feel good!
Thank you, rosa. Appreciate the support.
I love good theater too---and I feel the same about the experience---it is priceless. If you can see great plays and have some nice meals on $20,000 a year you are rich in experience and quality of life---doesn't get better than that!
10 years ago, my autoimmune disease was making working miserable. By the time I got home in the evening I had no energy(inflammation really causes fatigue). I also hurt head to toe and pretty much would spend the evening trying to get well enough to go back to work the next day. My job was very hands on and I wore splints on my hands to try to make it.
I went home to visit my Mom and one of my brothers had just moved to the other side of the state, so we made a trip out to see him. I have another brother who was planning on moving there too, which he eventually did. My sister at that time lived within a couple of hours, she has since moved. Anyhow, we looked at houses and I realized I could work part time because my house equity would more than pay for a house here outright. I went back, put my house on the market, and gave notice to my employer and sold lots of stuff and moved.
Due to several family emergencies I didn't work for eight months. Then I worked 1/2 time for three years. One day I ended up working almost 16 hours(and I only wanted to work 20 total). This had happened several times before and it would take me weeks to recover. I was back to being in continual pain and fatigue, so I resigned. I have not worked for the past 6 years.
The trade off has been well worth it. I can use what energy I have for my pleasure rather than being too exhausted to do anything. If I have a bad night and didn't sleep, I can easily sleep in or take a nap. While the disease continues to march on, I find my self better able to cope.
The most I ever made was 40k/year and I now live on around 20k. I have always lived on about that anyway. I wash dishes by hand, I hang laundry up to dry. Most of my possessions are second hand. I must do ok, as everyone who comes to my house compliments my on how lovely it is and how restful it is, it has sort of a 40's beachy vibe. I stay active and busy. I play cards with friends a couple of times a month, I meet friends for lunch or coffee regularly, I exercise at the water center 3x a week, Belong to a book club. Regularly get books from the library and dvds from the library or Redbox. I have season tickets to the community theater and community concert series. I do enjoy quality theater and have made trips to bigger cities to see plays. I think it helps that I am an introvert and could easily spend days at home putzing around and playing the piano or playing with the dog.
I actually have traveled more than I thought I could. Last year I went to Washington to visit my sister's daughters and to Maine to visit my sister.
Being single, I appreciate my brothers' muscles and know how. It is nice to have someone to run things by. They also are good at helping. One planted 5 trees in my backyard. I ended up selling for first house I had here because the stairs were getting to hard for me. I now have a zero clearance house with a walk in shower etc. My other house sold for enough that I could buy this house and do a few things (like put up a fence for my dog).
Life is good, it is different than I expected it to be, but for the most part it works out fine.
I live about 15 mins from Mt Rushmore, so I am well aware of the Sturgis rally. It's not my thing, but I also don't mind it. This area is beautiful. The cold weather in the winter tends to keep the riffraff down ,lol. I also went to Maui a few years ago and stayed at a wonderful classic hotel called Lahina Shores. I gave the 40's vibe, but very clean etc. Right on the ocean and about 2 blocks from downtown Lahina.
awakenedsoul
7-11-14, 8:01pm
I love good theater too---and I feel the same about the experience---it is priceless. If you can see great plays and have some nice meals on $20,000 a year you are rich in experience and quality of life---doesn't get better than that!
Thanks Rachel. I used to think I couldn't afford theater tickets. I dropped a few things, and now I can!
awakenedsoul
7-11-14, 8:03pm
Aqua Blue,
Loved your story. It sounds like you are on track. Having (and keeping) a beautiful home really improves the quality of your life. Lahina Shores sounds fabulous!
There's something about seeing quality theater and having nice meals that makes me feel rich. I don't like the feeling of scrimping and only buying the bare basics. But, I can do that on $20,000. or less a year, which isn't bad...
I'll say!
So far, I haven't regretted many things in life--even the bad is "for a purpose" but I truly regret not seeing certain plays I felt I couldn't afford at the time. Kind of funny.. when people will ask me on my deathbed if I had any regrets, all I'll have to say is, "Not seeing Phillip Seymour Hoffman in Death of a Salesman".
I'll say!
So far, I haven't regretted many things in life--even the bad is "for a purpose" but I truly regret not seeing certain plays I felt I couldn't afford at the time. Kind of funny.. when people will ask me on my deathbed if I had any regrets, all I'll have to say is, "Not seeing Phillip Seymour Hoffman in Death of a Salesman".I saw Truman (or was it Capote?) recently. He was fantastic!
Awakenedsoul -m I'm not surprised you didn't like Book Of Mormon as it was written by the guys who write the Southpark TV show. Very low brow crude satire and probably not your thing. Of course, having slightly less refined tastes then most, I love it (South Park that is)
Wow Aqua Blue great story. Sorry you have to deal with an autoimmune disorder that causes so much pain, but happy for you that you have been able to be "free" to do many things you love that, when working, may have been impossible. Your story is the kind of thing that really make me appreciate getting into a situation where I was able to retire early - even if it is a fairly Spartan retirement. A couple of months ago I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease that effects the muscles and, while I don't have any real problems now, could cause total disability at some point. My first thought when I was diagnosed was how glad I was that I retired young and was able to do all sort of things I might not be able to do if I waited until I was in my older. It's a good/bad way to remind me (us) that sometimes waiting longer to have more, may end up being too long. I've been fortunate to not have any real problems yet but did have one "flare-up" and felt like my entire body had been pummeled with a baseball bat for hours. I was completely unable to get out of bed let alone walk. Had to crawl (painfully) to get to the bathroom. Only lasted a short time but was enough of a motivator to light a bigger fire under my butt to go out and do the things I've always wanted. You just never know how long you've got. If I had waiting until I was in my 50's or 60's to retire I think I'd really have regretted it.
awakenedsoul
7-12-14, 11:25am
I'll say!
So far, I haven't regretted many things in life--even the bad is "for a purpose" but I truly regret not seeing certain plays I felt I couldn't afford at the time. Kind of funny.. when people will ask me on my deathbed if I had any regrets, all I'll have to say is, "Not seeing Phillip Seymour Hoffman in Death of a Salesman".
Yeah, each person has those personal things that are luxuries. Having a gorgeous garden and a clean, orderly home makes me feel rich, too. It's good that you know that about theater. You can make that your priority when you have extra money...
Talented, trained artists are so inspiring. With the changes in television, we've lost a lot of that. But, they are still out there. One performance can change your life...
awakenedsoul
7-12-14, 11:31am
Awakenedsoul -m I'm not surprised you didn't like Book Of Mormon as it was written by the guys who write the Southpark TV show. Very low brow crude satire and probably not your thing. Of course, having slightly less refined tastes then most, I love it (South Park that is)
That's what some of the ladies I met at the Pantages told me. The writing of musicals has really changed. I'd like to see everything so that I can get a broader view. I just tend to like shows that give me hope, make me laugh, and inspire me. I felt so badly for the people in Africa watching Book of Mormon. I've read a lot about the experiences these people are having in impoverished nations, and I could never sing and dance about it. Mocking them seems cruel to me. I feel very fortunate to have what I do.
There were many people who loved it, especially the reviewers. They decide the future of a show. I just know directors who are having trouble getting quality work produced. People who have won several Tony awards...and I think it's sad. But, art is a personal thing. I plan to see Pippin when it's here. My old Jazz teacher, Chet Walker, directed it, and it looks fantastic.
That's what some of the ladies I met at the Pantages told me. The writing of musicals has really changed. I'd like to see everything so that I can get a broader view. I just tend to like shows that give me hope, make me laugh, and inspire me. I felt so badly for the people in Africa watching Book of Mormon. I've read a lot about the experiences these people are having in impoverished nations, and I could never sing and dance about it. Mocking them seems cruel to me. I feel very fortunate to have what I do.
There were many people who loved it, especially the reviewers. They decide the future of a show. I just know directors who are having trouble getting quality work produced. People who have won several Tony awards...and I think it's sad. But, art is a personal thing. I plan to see Pippin when it's here. My old Jazz teacher, Chet Walker, directed it, and it looks fantastic.I think that the whole point of The Book of Mormon was to shed light, in a satirical way, on the plight of the people in war torn Africa and the futility of missionary gossip spreading in such dire circumstances rather then to make fun of it. I know that on South Park they often do satires of starving people in Africa where good-hearted but misguided Americans try to "help" by giving them things like expensive, but useless, do-dads to "make their lives better". More making fun of silly Americans who "don get it" then making fun of starving Africans. But each person's take will be different.
awakenedsoul
7-12-14, 1:49pm
Maybe so. I felt that way when I read Ashley Judd's book. The problems these people are facing are so tragic, and they give them condoms and mesquito nets.
If I'm going to continue to audition for Broadway shows, I'll have to get used to it. Last week I went to a call for a new show by the director and choreographer of Book of Mormon. The guy that ran the audition was my old dance partner from "42nd Street" in Europe. He's a wonderful person...super talented. Haven't seen the script, but the choreography and music were fantastic.
I think part of it is generational, too. I remember the old timers and stars in the shows I did not approving of what we, (the dancers and singers,) chose to do sometimes. Each era is different. Now I'm the older one at auditions. It's all switched. The young girls come up to me and say, "Wow, you were really good," when I feel like I've really slipped in ability. (Can't kick as high, or take daily ballet classes anymore.) But, the spirit is there. Show people live simply in their own way. They give up a lot to stay in the business. I like being around them, it's like a tribe...
I think part of it is generational, too. I remember the old timers and stars in the shows I did not approving of what we, (the dancers and singers,) chose to do sometimes. Each era is different.
Oh, yeah. Today's Book of Mormon is yesterday's "Hair." I remember seeing Equus and I was so naive in my early 20s, I had no idea what it was even about.
ApatheticNoMore
7-12-14, 4:17pm
I remember seeing Equus and I was so naive in my early 20s, I had no idea what it was even about.
I probably saw it then or maybe as I teenager on PBS with either both my parents or maybe just my dad. I immediately "got it", it's about horses and sexuality (or about sexuality and romance that comes out of an early life emotional attachment - even to an animal). It's an extremely powerful play - well you have to like Freudian stuff.
rodeosweetheart
7-12-14, 7:19pm
Funny story-- I rented the movie That Championship Season and thought the whole time, gosh this seems familiar, and then realized my mother had taken me to see it on Broadway 40 years earlier with Stacey Keach, and afterwards she took me to dinner at Sardi's.
Maybe so. I felt that way when I read Ashley Judd's book. The problems these people are facing are so tragic, and they give them condoms and mesquito nets.
..Yeah but on South Park they usually satire people (silly Americans) giving them things like expensive Vita-Mix Blenders, Cappuccino machines and blow dryers. At least condoms and mosquito netting would be helpful to cut down on the spread of diseases and save lives.
I probably saw it then or maybe as I teenager on PBS with either both my parents or maybe just my dad. I immediately "got it", it's about horses and sexuality (or about sexuality and romance that comes out of an early life emotional attachment - even to an animal). It's an extremely powerful play - well you have to like Freudian stuff.
At saw my college production and "got it" right away. of course I was older then the average college student by far.
"I am fortunate in that I actually DO have the extra money to indulge in a lot of different things if I wanted to but I generally don't want to even if I could afford it. There are many other things I like more - that happen to be free or low cost - then expensive things so with the limited time I have each day I'd rather spend it doing I things I really enjoy. So my Spartan life is less because of money, and more because that's the way I prefer to live and would live that way even if I had millions."--Spartana
Spartana! I love this sentiment. I think a lot of people here would agree with this at least some of the time. I recently got back home after spending (and I do mean SPENDING) a week with my sister---two restaurant meals a day---I could just gag, thinking about it, never again! First thing that happened when I got home is my cousin invited us to go out to a local park to watch fireworks. Most beautiful evening of the summer. First the sunset, then the fireworks. Cost: FREE. Wonderful community event, with everybody welcome. THAT is the good life!
My wife and I are loving our retirement years. She is still teaching a class online, but we just put that money into IRA,s. But I tell people I'm just unemployed and not looking for work.
We just moved to SW Florida, no more cold winters for us. And with our own plane it's not a big deal to still visit friends and family up north. We are outside Chicago now taking our grandson on a little vacation. Next week we are stopping by St. Louis, then back to our new home. We do pretty much whatever we want. And we are spending more now than when we were working. I planed to downsize, but after looking at homes for sale we just didn't do it.
I would not have quit my very good job if I could not afford to do the things I like to do. And I have some expensive hobbies. I didn't even think about getting my pilots license and buying a plane till 5 years after I had quit. I was driving by a little airport with my wife and made the comment that I had always wanted to learn to fly. She said what was stopping me. I didn't have it in my original spending estimates, but I had plenty of wiggle room.
The kids may not inherit as much but they are 30 now and I'm not worried about them.
My wife and I are loving our retirement years. She is still teaching a class online, but we just put that money into IRA,s. But I tell people I'm just unemployed and not looking for work.
We just moved to SW Florida, no more cold winters for us. And with our own plane it's not a big deal to still visit friends and family up north. We are outside Chicago now taking our grandson on a little vacation. Next week we are stopping by St. Louis, then back to our new home. We do pretty much whatever we want. And we are spending more now than when we were working. I planed to downsize, but after looking at homes for sale we just didn't do it.
I would not have quit my very good job if I could not afford to do the things I like to do. And I have some expensive hobbies. I didn't even think about getting my pilots license and buying a plane till 5 years after I had quit. I was driving by a little airport with my wife and made the comment that I had always wanted to learn to fly. She said what was stopping me. I didn't have it in my original spending estimates, but I had plenty of wiggle room.
The kids may not inherit as much but they are 30 now and I'm not worried about them.And I think your post shows that the key to retired happiness isn't a one-size-fits-all thing. I LIKE (LOVE) all the free or inexpensive things I do. Did them before I retired and wanted to do them more once I retired (and the motivation to retire early came from not having the free time to do the things I love as often). If I loved expensive things I would have had to keep working longer to be able to afford them - but I assume it might have been worth it. I have had expensive hobbies at different times in my life but find greater enjoyment from other, free things. Not because they are free, but just because I like them better.
And I think your post shows that the key to retired happiness isn't a one-size-fits-all thing. I LIKE (LOVE) all the free or inexpensive things I do. Did them before I retired and wanted to do them more once I retired (and the motivation to retire early came from not having the free time to do the things I love as often). If I loved expensive things I would have had to keep working longer to be able to afford them - but I assume it might have been worth it. I have had expensive hobbies at different times in my life but find greater enjoyment from other, free things. Not because they are free, but just because I like them better.
I would do without some things before I went back to work. And we also enjoy some low cost activities. But being able to fly up to Chicago and take the grandson on a little vacation is nice, we have done the zoo, six flags, and are now staying at key lime cove which is a water park and hotel setup for kids. But we use to take him camping and had just as much fun for quite a bit less money.
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