For once I'm liking technology.....

[gimmethesimplelife]

Each year for the past few years I've stood in line for the opening of Target on Black Friday for their killer deals on TV/Cable series DVD's. This year I'm just not in the mood to do so. Then it dawned on me - I can buy these DVD's online AT THE SAME PRICE with no sales tax and no standing in line and I can even go to Fatwallet.com and access Target.com through their website and even get 2.5% cash back on my purchase! What's not to like about all of this?

This is one of those what seems to me to be rare times when I find myself grateful for technology and tech is visibly making my life easier. I will say that I have not run into any craziness at Target all these years I've went to their Black Friday opening but this has been an eventful year and I just want to take it easy today. Not up to the crowds and the crazy energy. But I'm getting what I want nonetheless! Rob

This year I'm getting the first two seasons of House of Cards - recommended by a few people here - and the first part of the last season of Mad Men. Sometime between Christmas and New Year's I'll have a marathon with House of Cards.

[iris lilies]

Binge watching is nice, I'll give you that, but the library is free. But I doubt that you could get both seasons of House of Cards at one time from your local library for binge-watching. Even Netflix mail-a-disc program limits you to 1 disc at a time.

My friend has streaming tv so that's how we binge watched several recent television series including House of Cards, Orange is the New Black, Happy Valley, True Detective, and Homeland.

So, I supplement binge watching at her house with library titles. I've got 4 at home right now, and there are 3 more waiting for me to pick up, all new releases (but not blockbusters, that's why I'm getting them so soon.) The blockbusters all have long waiting lists at the library.

[Yossarian]

I can buy these DVD's online AT THE SAME PRICE with no sales tax ?


As a proponent of big government I'm sure you don't want to shirk your tax obligations:

http://www.azdor.gov/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=grFbHzrstZ0%3D&

[gimmethesimplelife]

As a proponent of big government I'm sure you don't want to shirk your tax obligations:

http://www.azdor.gov/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=grFbHzrstZ0%3D&Today is a holiday. To me it is a day for family - and this year also my boyfriend, a recent development. Today I am a proponent of nothing really.....my post was not meant to endorse anything but to express some gratitude for getting something I want and due to technology, with minimal if any hassle. That was the extent of my post and my agenda with this post. Tomorrow I will once again be a proponent of that which I hold dear. Today I'm just me. So I am on major holidays. Rob

[Alan]

Tomorrow I will once again be a proponent of that which I hold dear. That's how I feel each April 15th, although knowing the government doesn't care about my beliefs and will be happy to come after me, I consciously play by their rules. I consider it an insurance policy against forced bankruptcy and incarceration, sort of like when small business owners pay protection money to the Mafia, paying all taxes due keeps them from roughing me up.

[gimmethesimplelife]

That's how I feel each April 15th, although knowing the government doesn't care about my beliefs and will be happy to come after me, I consciously play by their rules. I consider it an insurance policy against forced bankruptcy and incarceration, sort of like when small business owners pay protection money to the Mafia, paying all taxes due keeps them from roughing me up.Alan, seriously, please help me to understand (and also understand that today I'm being a proponent of nothing). I am just going to ask you one question, do with it what you will. It's a twist on a question that I am sometimes asked. And it is this - If you know that you have to pay taxes, and it upsets/offends you so much, and you feel this strongly about it - Why have you not voted with your feet and left for another country? I don't mean this insultingly, really I don't. My logic is that taxes seem to continually creep up up up and for someone who views paying taxes as an insurance policy against forced bankruptcy and incarceration, as you put it, why stay in the United States? If it's that much counter to what you believe is right? Another reason I ask this is because the national debt keeps going up up up I can't see taxes going down anytime soon if ever.....Rob

[bae]

Be thankful, Alan, that Rob can engage in fun Black Friday shopping, while you are paying for his, and my, health insurance!

[Alan]

Alan, seriously, please help me to understand (and also understand that today I'm being a proponent of nothing). I am just going to ask you one question, do with it what you will. It's a twist on a question that I am sometimes asked. And it is this - If you know that you have to pay taxes, and it upsets/offends you so much, and you feel this strongly about it - Why have you not voted with your feet and left for another country?
Because I'm an American. I was born here, raised here and my family is here. Most of us understand that it is our duty to support our home and do our part to support others who can't support themselves. It is not in our nature to declare that if the country doesn't provide for us in the manner in which we'd like, we'll simply leave. Besides, if all the people who play by the rules leave, who would support those who don't?


Another reason I ask this is because the national debt keeps going up up up I can't see taxes going down anytime soon if ever.....Rob
Do you think there's a correlation between the two?

[gimmethesimplelife]

Because I'm an American. I was born here, raised here and my family is here. Most of us understand that it is our duty to support our home and do our part to support others who can't support themselves. It is not in our nature to declare that if the country doesn't provide for us in the manner in which we'd like, we'll simply leave. Besides, if all the people who play by the rules leave, who would support those who don't?


Do you think there's a correlation between the two?I've always thought citizenship should be like buying a used car - you're going to do some shopping around to try for the best deal for yourself, you will kick the tires a bit, take a test drive, have a mechanic look under the hood, just in general do some due diligence before committing. How this applies to citizenship is that I believe people should be out for the best deal for themselves with no loyalty - that being said, depending on what you consider a good deal, for some the US will suit. For others it won't. Seems very simple for me at least to understand. I don't really consider myself much of an American and I seriously doubt if I lived somewhere else i'd consider myself an "an" of said other country. Some of it is how I was raised by someone who dealt with the after effect of World War 2 in Europe - raised to be immune to thinking of attaching myself to any one country. Such thinking seems logical to me and I have chosen not to reject it with age.

To answer your second question, yes, I do see a correlation. Definitely. I also feel for those who feel very strongly against that correlation, they test drive some other country on for size. And I don't in any way mean this insultingly - to me it's practical common sense advice. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

Back to my thread - DVD's bought, time in line avoided, Black Friday pricing obtained, and me happy.

Happy Thanksgiving to all, I'm off for dinner at my Mom's. Rob

[Alan]

I've always thought citizenship should be like buying a used car - you're going to do some shopping around to try for the best deal for yourself, you will kick the tires a bit, take a test drive, have a mechanic look under the hood, just in general do some due diligence before committing.
What if your example were reversed and you were the used car? Could you find a buyer?

[ApatheticNoMore]

What if your example were reversed and you were the used car? Could you find a buyer?

Either they want youth or vast wealth. So it's kind of a given if one has seen to many birthdays and is not rich then no. I mean really does anyone imagine there are many countries that want to take a non-rich say 50 something that suddenly decides to emigrate or something. One can then blame themselves for that then I suppose!

The taxes, one may not pay them now but sooner or later the states will pretty much crack down on enforcing the sales taxes anyway (as with CA and Amazon). There may be some loopholes now, but they aren't all going to last.

[ToomuchStuff]

He also mentioned Target. I don't know if Arizona has sales tax or not (makes a difference) but in most states (what I am aware of) if they have a retail pressence, you still pay taxes on the purchase. (and then taxes are considered by many as part of the purchase price for comparison shopping with places such as Amazon).
You don't hit mandatory USE tax in MO until you hit $2K (and my online shopping is WAY below that).
http://www.simplelivingforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1451&d=1417189304

The country discussion, makes me think of words from a Mike and the Mechanic's song;
Pledge alleigence to the flag, whatever flag they offer,
Never hint at what you really feel.....

In enough other countries, that is so true. In the US, it will certainly get you on a watch list if your vocal enough (what is the NSA for, if not for domestic surveilance, and the CIA is for foreign), but in enough other countries, it would just get you arrested.

[pony mom]

I scored a good deal on an expensive therapeutic saddle pad for my horse, at 20% off plus $1 shipping. And also got 15% off a supplement that I will have to buy in a few months anyway, probably at full price. Both will be delivered to my home. Nothing for me, of course. I'm grateful I'll be going into work for a few hours for extra money to help pay for this stuff.

[Teacher Terry]

I can't even imagine not feeling a sense of loyalty to your country. WE are only a free nation/people because of all the others before us that are loyal to the US & will/did die to protect everyone's freedom.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I can't even imagine not feeling a sense of loyalty to your country. WE are only a free nation/people because of all the others before us that are loyal to the US & will/did die to protect everyone's freedom.Interesting. I don't feel that we are really free in the US these days. I believe at one point, before the economy became global and before we were competing for steady work with people in much lower paying nations, that we had some degree of freedom, yes. I can remember the tail end of these days in the 70's and early 80's. These days I see it as most of us as being subject to the whims of turbo-charged brutally capitalistic economy which couldn't care less about you. This is my take and this is what life has taught me - your mileage may vary.

As for the loyalty to any country, lol, I must have slept in late the day they passed that one out. I see it this way - if employers can inspect and analyze every nook and cranny of your life (as can the government, too) and subject you to all kinds of metrics as part of getting a check - why is citizenship of any country immune to the same brutally capitalistic inspection? I've never understood how so many people don't see it this way. Maybe this will make it easier to understand - the nicest thing anyone ever said to me was my Mother telling me the following when I was 15. She said - You would have been one of the Germans that fled Germany in World War 2. Always stay that way, never let anyone take that from you. (There were some Germans that were not down with what was going on during that time that fled Germany). I have always to date stayed that way and it's something I cherish about myself. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

What if your example were reversed and you were the used car? Could you find a buyer?Alan, I want you to know that I saw your post here on Thanksgiving evening and did not reply right away as I wanted to think this one over. Interesting point you bring up and interesting way to put it. I have felt like a used car searching for a buyer while I was looking at requirements to immigrate to Canada or Australia or New Zealand. So.....given my love of Hispanic culture (in general, there are some parts I am not down with) when I started looking south of the border I once again felt like a buyer. Point being the requirements are much less intense and much more obtainable by a mere mortal.

So to answer your question - if I prefer the role of buyer (and a buyer with some degree of choice) I'm going to have to go with a developing country - Chile and Uruguay are good examples. If I want to be the used car with no choice, I'll pound my head against the wall with the non-obtainable requirements of first world English speaking countries (all of which are off my list now anyway). Rob

[Alan]

I have felt like a used car searching for a buyer while I was looking at requirements to immigrate to Canada or Australia or New Zealand.
You gotta look at it from their point of view, the wrong used car can cost a fortune in upkeep and maintenance. "Caveat emptor" helps first world countries remain first world.

[gimmethesimplelife]

You gotta look at it from their point of view, the wrong used car can cost a fortune in upkeep and maintenance. "Caveat emptor" helps first world countries remain first world.I have looked at it this way and my perception is that both Chile and Uruguay offer a better deal than the US. Chile and Uruguay are upscale foreign cars, nice and shiny, the US is more like a weathered Ford f-150 with a lot of mileage on it but somewhat serviceable, and then let's pick another country, say Venezuela (which I still find a fascinating country nonetheless) is a 1976 Chevette with a burning motor and badly leaking oil with 200.000 miles and on it's last leg. Such are the findings of my brutally capitalistic comparisons, done over several years time.

As to upkeep and maintenance, compare per capita debt levels in the US with both Chile and Uruguay and then compare social security and health care in all three countries.....If you can get beyond loyalty you might see a better deal elsewhere.....just sayin'......though once again we are all going to have different definitions of what a good deal involves, I get that. If you compare on some levels, however, you are going to find the US not stacking up well against Chile and Uruguay in terms of health care access and how many years to work before picking up a social security check (in Uruguay its only 20 years of work for women) and how much paid time off work your life is worth. I'm looking more at this from a quality of life/how much does a given country respect basic human needs point of view. You will find the US lacking - very lacking - in comparison to some developing coutries when these screens are applied, though I will admit that compared to some other countries, it's not a bad deal. The question is what are you after and what are you willing to settle for? What exactly is important to you and in which country is this realistically obtainable? Rob

Came back to add that I just reread your post and I see that I took the meaning wrong.....sorry about that. I stand by what I posted BUT you didn't mean what I thought you meant. Got it. I also see your point and to some degree I agree, though these countries are losing out on some good talent by having such high screens for immigration - some of these folks will end out taking their talents to other countries that are not in the first world but offer decent living nonetheless, and to this I say, more power to them and let these other countries capitalize on the talent they acquire from having more humane and realistic immigration requirements.

[Tammy]

I think of loyalty as a two way relationship. Whether it involves country, employer, or friend. I am as loyal to the other as the other is loyal to me. Mutual or nothing.

[Songbird]

I think of loyalty as a two way relationship. Whether it involves country, employer, or friend. I am as loyal to the other as the other is loyal to me. Mutual or nothing.

I think those that fought and died so I can live in a free country deserve my loyalty, and they have it. Makes me disgusted when I hear or read of those that continually insult my country, especially knowing of the blood shed for them.... But they are lucky they can openly criticize their own country's government, the USA, without ending up imprisoned, tortured, or killed as in a lot of other countries. We really are free here in that respect and so many disregard that fact, and disregard and dishonor those who gave up their lives so that we have these freedoms....

[Tammy]

I have no trouble with gratitude and loyalty to fellow citizens who served in the military. I sometimes have problems with those who actually run our governmental bureaucracy and who don't seem to care about actual people like me.

[Songbird]

I have no trouble with gratitude and loyalty to fellow citizens who served in the military. I sometimes have problems with those who actually run our governmental bureaucracy and who don't seem to care about actual people like me.

Of course, and I feel the same way. But the amazing thing is that we are allowed to voice our opinions and criticisms openly of our government without fear! I don't think people like Rob fully appreciate that, among other things...

[gimmethesimplelife]

Of course, and I feel the same way. But the amazing thing is that we are allowed to voice our opinions and criticisms openly of our government without fear! I don't think people like Rob fully appreciate that, among other things...This is far from the only country in which you can voice opinions and criticisms of the government openly. Not only that, but if I remember correctly, isn't there something about protest zones now so that you can't protest too close to any high up politician's speech? This one I remember dating back to the Bush years after he had us invade Iraq. How to forgive America for all those Iraqi civilian deaths? I'll never figure that one out. Are their lives not just as valid as ours are?

All that having been said, you know who I really feel sorry for? The vets of World War 2 that are still with us and still sharp enough to see what is going on in America today. I wonder if they feel their efforts were in vain? For them I could truly cry - honestly - as the world they lived in back then was different from ours today. For vets of more modern eras, I cry for them as how the US government treats them as garbage - case in point - how little the promise of health care through the VA means - reference the recent scandal in regards to the VA. I'd sure be angry as hell if I were a vet. If I had been in dangerous situations and made it through only to come home to that treatment, that would be an immigrate out scenario to me, just in terms of human dignity and rights alone. For such vets I truly have sympathy - having bought into the system and then learning about its true nature must be difficult. I'm glad I figured these things out young and didn't get caught into this trap that so many of our lower income young do. But I still feel for them - disillusionment at this level sucks - I went through it very young and I know. Rob

Came back to add an interesting side point sort of related to the above I've posted - the summer I was 14 I figured out a lot of home truths about America and that was the first time i was grateful for being gay - at that time I realized the military was not an option to get out of my unpleasant situation and I remember feeling so so so grateful for this discrimination.....(which I admit doesn't exist legally today).....after the conclusions I came to from reading, thinking, spending hours in the library comparison shopping different countries (back in the day before the Internet so you could spend hours researching something and lose yourself in it) and just having the courage to think independently - I found myself grateful that America didn't really want me. At least not in the military. So I luckily avoided the military trap that once again so many young people fall into as their options can often be limited and it is a way to get out of Dodge if Dodge is a nightmare for you. Something else to be grateful for - I avoided this fate. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

I have no trouble with gratitude and loyalty to fellow citizens who served in the military. I sometimes have problems with those who actually run our governmental bureaucracy and who don't seem to care about actual people like me.I dpn't have a problem with having some gratitude for those who have served in the military either. As I have posted above, I actually feel sympathy for them, for the reasons I have posted above.

And BINGO - I completely agree with your second sentence. Couldn't agree more with your second sentence. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

I scored a good deal on an expensive therapeutic saddle pad for my horse, at 20% off plus $1 shipping. And also got 15% off a supplement that I will have to buy in a few months anyway, probably at full price. Both will be delivered to my home. Nothing for me, of course. I'm grateful I'll be going into work for a few hours for extra money to help pay for this stuff.This thread has gotten really heavy and serious and I'm glad to see your post along the lines of what I originally posted. I always wondered what it would be like to have a horse or horses. When I volunteered Tuesdays the summer of 2011 at Best Friends Animal Sanctuary in Utah, there were horses there that had been abandoned by their owners due to the economy. Beautiful animals. I loved to spend some time with them and the cats there. Rob

[Teacher Terry]

My Mom's grandfather was in the German army & escaped to the US so yes there are times you need to leave. However, my grandfather was in WW 1 & my dad in WW 2 & exhubby in Vietnam so I know what they all sacrificed & all thought that it was worth it. I also love horses. In Nevada they are doing round-ups which is horrible of the wild horses. They scare them with helicopters & mothers miscarry & some break their legs fleeing. There has been a group trying to put a permanent stop to this but so far not very successful. Then they put them in pens & did not provide shelter. It is horrible.

[dmc]

i didn't know there were that many country's wanting to take care of middle aged, gay, low skilled guys who want free health care. Are there country's out there actively recruiting to add to there costs? Can you move to a socialist country like Venezuela ? Will Mexico actually take you as a citizen if you dont pay your way?

I know Canada won't take you unless you have something to bring, I'm pretty sure most country's are the same way. It's even suppose to be that way here.

I've been waiting for some time to here about your move Rob, go ahead and do it. Maybe others will follow.

[gimmethesimplelife]

i didn't know there were that many country's wanting to take care of middle aged, gay, low skilled guys who want free health care. Are there country's out there actively recruiting to add to there costs? Can you move to a socialist country like Venezuela ? Will Mexico actually take you as a citizen if you dont pay your way?

I know Canada won't take you unless you have something to bring, I'm pretty sure most country's are the same way. It's even suppose to be that way here.

I've been waiting for some time to here about your move Rob, go ahead and do it. Maybe others will follow.I'm working on the skills part as we speak, Uruguay doesn't have a problem with the sexual orientation thing (Chile is not so liberal about this, though), and age actually doesn't work against me if I meet their reasonable cash in the bank(in my case credit union) thresholds. You might be surprised if you looked into how reasonable the requirements can be to immigrate into more time to enjoy life and socialized medicine. I know these criteria are not your thing - fine - you get to value whatever it is that you value - but these two criteria sure mean a lot to me. And I can have them elsewhere. Looks like a win-win for everyone, don't you think? Rob

[dmc]

I'm working on the skills part as we speak, Uruguay doesn't have a problem with the sexual orientation thing (Chile is not so liberal about this, though), and age actually doesn't work against me if I meet their reasonable cash in the bank(in my case credit union) thresholds. You might be surprised if you looked into how reasonable the requirements can be to immigrate into more time to enjoy life and socialized medicine. I know these criteria are not your thing - fine - you get to value whatever it is that you value - but these two criteria sure mean a lot to me. And I can have them elsewhere. Looks like a win-win for everyone, don't you think? Rob

I don't have a problem with you leaving. I'm just curious on what's required. How much cash is required? I'm not worried about my medical care at this time, but it is expensive. With the recent move to SW Florida I haven't Been able to get my income low enough for the subsidy from the taxpayers like Alan. If things are not to my liking here, I may want to move in the future also, but we are probably looking for different things. Last I looked Panama had possibilities.