Is it financially smart to sign up for Paypal?

[wren]

I considered getting a Paypal account last year, but was discouraged by all the fine print in the terms of service, which I did not understand well enough to accept. The only reason I looked at Paypal was that I wanted to do some more kiva.org loans, which use Paypal. Originally I paid with a CC (which I still have), but then Paypal stopped allowing Canadians to use CC as a 'guest' of Paypal. They now try to make you sign up with a Paypal account. So far, I'm reluctant to do that.

My question is: For those of you who use Paypal (as a buyer),
1. how much are the service fees?
2. are there hidden fees?
3.how much of your personal banking information do they want?
4. What do they do with that information?
5. Do you recommend Paypal?

I noticed that the SL forums also use Paypal, and there are some unanswered questions about CC's being accepted through them.

[Alan]

We use Paypal on the forums because it's an extremely easy way to collect donations as well as pay for services rendered by our internet host as well as our domain fees. I'm not a Paypal expert but I can tell you that they take 2.9% plus 30 cents of each donation received, so a $10 donation nets $9.41 and a $20 donation nets $19.12.

I've made annual donations using my CC through Paypal without any issues. Someone here did report some sort of problem with Paypal accepting their credit cards but then later did complete a donation, although that post wasn't updated to explain how the issue was resolved.

As for your remaining questions: 2: I haven't found any hidden fees, everything seems very straight forward. 3: They do ask you to link your account to a checking or savings account through your bank, although that isn't necessary to use your Paypal account. I think it's just an easy way to transfer money to or from your Paypal account. 4: I can't say because I haven't linked a bank account. 5: Sure, it's an easy way to collect and keep track of incoming funds without co-mingling with personal or business funds and it only takes a few clicks to pay the vendors required to keep the forum running as they all accept Paypal payments.

[kib]

I was a person with questions about SLN donation; when I just put my cc info in it wouldn't go, it wanted to use a paypal account. So I signed up. There is no cost on the purchasing/donating end. You give them standard info plus one account number. You can then at your discretion add any other accounts, ccs etc. that you might want to use for payments instead of your primary one. The benefit is that credit card and account numbers can be kept confidential from the payee (but not, of course, from Paypal). I have no reason not to recommend them.

[JaneV2.0]

I'm a huge fan of Paypal, which saves me entering and re-entering my CC number at every website where I want to buy or contribute something. And it's a perfect vehicle for eBay transactions. I've never had any trouble with it, and I've had my account for years. There may be a downside (do we really expect any privacy any more?) but I haven't found one.

[iris lilies]

I've used PayPal for years and have never had a problem. They had a rough patch some years ago--something about mis-use of accounts and PayPaul would not reimburse users and during that time I stayed away.

But in recent 5 years or so it has been fine. I use it perhaps 3 or 4 times per year.

Be advised that you will receive "phishing" emails where the sender masquerades as PayPal and asks you to login. Do not login! The sender is attempting to capture your login codes.

PayPay will never send you emails asking you to login.

[jp1]

Iris, the advice about not clicking links in email to login is good advice for everywhere. Never, ever, ever, ever, clink on a link in an email and then log in to anything. Ever ever ever. Just don't.

[catherine]

I'm a PayPal fan, for the same reasons Jane gave. It's so easy to make transactions. I manage a family plan cell phone account and the kids send me their share once a month via PayPal. If I had to wait for them to send me a check, I'd probably be waiting a while--not because they don't want to pay me, but you know how it is when there are several steps involved in doing anything. But all they have to do is link to my email and in just a couple of clicks, they're done.

When given the choice of CC or PayPal to pay for things, I usually choose PayPal.

And I agree with what iris lilies and jp1 said: I was a victim of phishing, unfortunately, but the customer service people were really helpful. I didn't lose anything but time.

[Float On]

In all my years of using it mostly for business, I've never had a problem with it and I moved some really large amounts of money through there - I'm talking $6,000- $9,500 at a time.

[merince]

I've been using PayPay on and off for years, though I would not link a bank account to it. I usually link a credit card with a low limit (both daily and overall) that I keep for most of my online purchases.

There are no hidden fees or fees when you're using it to send money. The fees are usually charged on the receiver's end and are made known in advance.

[ToomuchStuff]

Let me start by saying I am NOT a fan of Paypal.
I understand it has advantages. It allows inviduals as well as small businesses, and affordable way to accept plastic. (especially internet orders, now that there are smart phone readers if you have a smart phone). I have heard horror stories from sellers I knew (where fraud was involved and the seller lost both money and product), and it does help the buyer if there is a legitamate problem. (so does a CC, IMHE)

Paypal REQUIRES a linked bank account, when you hit a certain amount with them (last I knew it was $10K). I think that amount is still correct. It took me years to hit that amount and I bought from Ebay since sometime around late 95, early 96 (my brother said Ebay would never last, LOL).
I set up a separate bank account, just for that, after the horror stories. Because paypal does want information that the bank uses, to verify the party accessing the account (things like Maiden names, which are easily found anyway). But that links to another story. Their Terms of Use, also effectively gives them the rights of a bank, without the legal responsibilities, that are mandated on financial institutions. (eventually I see Congress regulating these terms, since they are the big player, unless Google or Apple, etc. knocks them down) Just normal monopoly stuff.
I had to set up the account, in order to make a purchase, of a couple thousand dollars, for a piece of equipment that goes for between $6K (starting used) to $12K (new) for work. (neither boss is or chooses to be computer literate, so I am trusted with that). It has been a couple of years since I used it and only did recently, due to a small business that, that, is the only way they took orders/money (xmas gift).
Using the CC fraud protection, against paypal, will get you kicked off of paypal. (against their TOS, they want you to work through them and them be the judge)

But I am the type that I would rather manually enter my CC info, EVERY time and NOT have the companies save it. (had one company that handled CC for multiple companies, be hacked, and that is where my CC info was stolen). I prefer the mandated legal protections of the CC, then the agree to use a mediator of our state of choice contract of paypal if one has problems.
When it comes to gifts of money and using plastic (not sure about bank accounts), there are two options that I have experienced. You choose to pay the CC fee, or you leave it to come out on their end.
The other fee's come when you set up a sellers type account (where you collecting money), not when you have the rarely people send you money, type of account.

I think that covers all 5 questions, from my experience.

EDIT: Before I used paypal, for better then a decade, I used postal money orders via Ebay and only one time had a problem (and their inspectors showed up at the sellers). And Paypal said the post office wasn't as secure, LOL.

[wren]

[QUOTE=Alan;192500]We use Paypal on the forums because it's an extremely easy way to collect donations as well as pay for services rendered by our internet host as well as our domain fees. I'm not a Paypal expert but I can tell you that they take 2.9% plus 30 cents of each donation received, so a $10 donation nets $9.41 and a $20 donation nets $19.12.

I've made annual donations using my CC through Paypal without any issues. " [Quote]

Alan, I just tried doing a CC donation to this forum. I filled in all the boxes including my country (Canada). But the drop-down menu for 'state' contains no Canadian provinces. Then I tried typing my province on the address line. But I just kept getting the red error message "There is still information missing". There is no box to click for province. So I erased my information. There seems to be a block on Canadians using Paypal via CC.

This forum and Kiva.org are the only reasons I was even considering joining Paypal. I can see why non-profit groups and small vendors would like it. Thank you for your explanation. I still hesitate to link my primary chequing account to Paypal, unless my credit union will let me open a secondary account which would only hold limited funds. I'll ask them.

Of course, the most simple way would be to buy some US paper money from a merchant when we go to the city. It's not tourist season, but there's usually some kicking around even from cross-border shoppers. Does the forum accept cash? A postal money order in US funds has a $7. service charge here. Most US banks don't accept cheques from Cdn$ accounts.

[Alan]

Of course, the most simple way would be to buy some US paper money from a merchant when we go to the city. It's not tourist season, but there's usually some kicking around even from cross-border shoppers. Does the forum accept cash?
No, sorry. I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible and that means no bank accounts, no chance of co-mingling funds, etc. I'd like to keep all donations in one place where each transaction is recorded by a third party and preserved for posterity. Plus, there's more than one way to contribute to a community and in the short time you've been back, you've done a great job of keeping new and interesting discussions going. That means more than money.

[wren]

kib, Thanks for your your feedback. I couldn't get it to work with CC either.

[wren]

No, sorry. I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible and that means no bank accounts, no chance of co-mingling funds, etc. I'd like to keep all donations in one place where each transaction is recorded by a third party and preserved for posterity. Plus, there's more than one way to contribute to a community and in the short time you've been back, you've done a great job of keeping new and interesting discussions going. That means more than money.

Thanks for both of your explanations, and for the compliment. You're doing fine job yourself.

[wren]

JaneV2.0, Thanks for replying. I'm glad it works well for you. If I was dealing with a lot of websites, I could see the advantages. You're most likely right about the level of privacy.

[wren]

I've used PayPal for years and have never had a problem. They had a rough patch some years ago--something about mis-use of accounts and PayPaul would not reimburse users and during that time I stayed away.

But in recent 5 years or so it has been fine. I use it perhaps 3 or 4 times per year.

Be advised that you will receive "phishing" emails where the sender masquerades as PayPal and asks you to login. Do not login! The sender is attempting to capture your login codes.

PayPay will never send you emails asking you to login.

My father had a Paypal account back in the rough patch you mentioned; it was hacked and all funds disappeared, never recovered.

Thanks for your feedback, and the warning about fake emails.

[wren]

Iris, the advice about not clicking links in email to login is good advice for everywhere. Never, ever, ever, ever, clink on a link in an email and then log in to anything. Ever ever ever. Just don't.

That's good advice. Some of the spelling in spam emails is quite hilarious, for ex. the supposed sender 'Chase bnak' in multiple emails, as though they are repeating someone's typo of the work 'bank'. I never even open emails unless I know the sender is trustworthy.

[wren]

Oddball, Thanks for sharing your experience. I like the idea of deleting the account after using it. I rarely shop online, and just wanted to donate in two places which won't take CC.

[wren]

Catherine, Thanks for your reply. It's so interesting to hear the range of experiences. I'm glad it works for you. As for customer service, I figure I've done my lifetime's quota of sitting on hold with icky earworm muzak burrowing into my brain, getting shuffled from one rep to another at Bell Mobility. Those sounds still replay in my ears when I think of it.

[wren]

In all my years of using it mostly for business, I've never had a problem with it and I moved some really large amounts of money through there - I'm talking $6,000- $9,500 at a time.

Wow, I didn't realize you could do large transactions that way.

[wren]

I've been using PayPay on and off for years, though I would not link a bank account to it. I usually link a credit card with a low limit (both daily and overall) that I keep for most of my online purchases.

There are no hidden fees or fees when you're using it to send money. The fees are usually charged on the receiver's end and are made known in advance.

Thanks for answering.
Another recommendation to not link to a bank account. I thought that was required by Paypal. What about a separate bank account with a limited balance?

[wren]

ToomuchStuff said, "Paypal REQUIRES a linked bank account, when you hit a certain amount with them (last I knew it was $10K). I think that amount is still correct. It took me years to hit that amount and I bought from Ebay since sometime around late 95, early 96 (my brother said Ebay would never last, LOL).
I set up a separate bank account, just for that, after the horror stories. Because paypal does want information that the bank uses, to verify the party accessing the account (things like Maiden names, which are easily found anyway). But that links to another story. Their Terms of Use, also effectively gives them the rights of a bank, without the legal responsibilities, that are mandated on financial institutions. (eventually I see Congress regulating these terms, since they are the big player, unless Google or Apple, etc. knocks them down) Just normal monopoly stuff."
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Thanks for taking time to reply. That is a lot of food for thought. Also, the part about using the CC fraud protection against Paypal and as a result getting kicked off of Paypal.... it's as though they don't play by anyone's rules but their own.

I occasionally use postal money orders, but here Canada Post charges a flat service fee of $7. which really discourages small transactions.

[merince]

If you are linking a bank account, make sure you're are able to monitor it regularly. Personally, I would disable services such as "courtesy" overdraft protection and the like. In that case if you are hit, the stuff will simply bounce instead of racking up a giant negative balance plus fees.

Edited: I bank with a small bank, so if I explain what I am trying to use the account for, they will set it up correctly from the get-go.

[SteveinMN]

I never even open emails unless I know the sender is trustworthy.
For me, sometimes not even then.

An email arrived in my emailbox yesterday from a friend of mine -- but the generic title, generic greeting, and very brief "advice" to download and view a document (with a generic filename.docx) made me click the Delete button without looking further. A work colleague of mine who gets paid lots of money by the hour to advise companies on security matters periodically finds his name forged onto emails containing malware.

Unless you really KNOW who the sender is, be very careful opening emails and attachments.