View Full Version : Are my expectations too high?
Sad Eyed Lady
3-27-11, 10:51pm
Is it just me or does it seem that real face-to-face relationships have gone by the wayside? My friends, especially my female friends, have always been a very important part of my life. I have no children, therefore no grandchildren; I have no brothers or sisters, therefore no nieces or nephews, so except for a very few cousins and my husband of around 40 years, I am pretty much alone. Friends filled that gap. I still have the same friends, but it's like they have dropped off the face of the earth. We seldom see one another, go out together, and even phone conversations are farther apart than they used to be. Nothing wrong with the relationship, but it seems emailing, facebook posts etc have replaced the human touch - and I don't particularly like this! Also as grandchildren have come along the grandparents spend a lot of time with them and their activities, so that has to be taken into account. It just seems when we were younger, working outside the home full time, had small children (not me, but my friends), that we spent more time together. Going out for a meal, playing cards at each others house, just doing things together. One of these good friends, (and she is a good friend, I am not questioning that), lives maybe a block and a half away, yet I can't really remember the last time she was in my house, or how long it has been since we have gone out as two couples together for dinner, or any other activity. I miss this. This same friend and her husband each own a desk top computer, each has a laptop, each one of them has an iphone, and now she has ordered the new ipad. I can see where her time is spent. I love my computer too and all that it has brought into my life such as this forum, but it doesn't or shouldn't replace good old one on one live communication. I am in need of female companionship and would have to go outside my tiny rural town to seek it I think. I live 25 minutes or so away from a nice university town and I could probably find women's groups there, but with gas being what it is I don't like to make extra trips. We are seriously considering moving there just for more things to get involved in and for some real people to talk with! Is this a rant? Sorry - just a bit frustrated and wondered if anyone else is noticing this trend?:(
Hi Shalom_Poet. (I've really missed you on the forum). Are your expectations to high? Not at all, and you are 100% correct on a lack of personal interaction among all people today. That is exactly what is wrong with so many things we are seeing nowadays. Way too much disconnect.
Just rolling back the clock 20 some years ago I remember there were parties, gatherings, social functions, neighbourhood get-togethers, causal evening events where small handfuls mingled and schmoozed, today there's the internet. I've definitely noticed the electronic (personal) trend and it's a shame because so many people are missing out on so many things. It's creating a dysfunctional society that has already made and set it's roots firmly and deeply into the ground establishing itself as a permanent belonging.
Notice it a lot. I too am really struggling with not having a core group of friends. It's like pulling teeth to get people to do something.
ApatheticNoMore
3-28-11, 2:57am
Notice it a lot. I too am really struggling with not having a core group of friends. It's like pulling teeth to get people to do something.
People continually disappoint me, but sometimes they surprise me and come through for me :).
It's ok, I've been pretty self-reliant from a very early age, but it is disappointing. And yea people don't even want to do anything half the time!
Maybe you should move, seems you have good reasons.
I thought it was just me experiencing this! Even the core groups of friends I usually have dinners with, has been extending the time we get together for monthly-ish to quarterly-ish. I'm always the one doing the inviting, so I backed off, and now it just doesn't happen as often. I'm working at home, and am so isolated all week. My poor husband does the best he can, but he's way more of an introvert than I am.
Virtual friendships and message boards are nice, but not a replacement for a real person looking you in the eye.
I think this is the main reason that I work. Don't really need the money, just need the friendly faces.
flowerseverywhere
3-28-11, 8:15am
I noticed this the same thing this winter and could feel myself sinking into depression- I worked very hard to be FI to get out of the rat race but the loss of job contacts was hard. I have one friend that I see who is constantly checking her phone and takes calls no matter what is going on (dinner or a discussion). I decided that I needed to change myself because the world was racing into a new normal which I did not like. I decided to make some changes without spending a lot of money and here is what helped me.
I volunteered to be on a committee with a person I did not know at my quilt guild.
I put my name in to work on call at the local school with special Ed kids as a job coach. I get a lot of interaction with the kids at at their job sites but don't make much money.
I volunteer once a week at the local soup kitchen.
I signed up for a community garden plot. There are always people working in their gardens and it is fun.
I started going to the school board meetings. I haven't said much yet but it is interesting.
I sketch every day and keep an art journal. I recently signed up for a watercolor painting class.
I signed up for some bird watching walks at the local nature center. They take short trips in the area and help identify birds.
I read the paper on the weekend and find things to do that are interesting, our nearby universities have speakers and music events that are free or nearly free and we have seen a lot of interesting people.
I also set some personal fitness goals, like bike riding distances. Although this is solo the exercise helps.
I am not sure moving would help unless you went to a specific place where there were activities that you would participate in, because wherever you go I think this will be the new normal.
frugal-one
3-28-11, 8:56am
Same experiences here. I, too, have been considering moving. We live in a small community that is near a college, as well. I could have written your post Shalom_Poet. You are not alone!
I don't think your expectations are too high. I have a really rich social life and I really enjoy it. Sometimes its hard to juggle all my friends.
One thing that has helped is having a regular weekly engagement with one of my closest friends. We've done this for years now and it is such a help. I also have a women's group I belong to at church. Having regular times for getting together
I have found technology makes it easier for me to have a real social life. This spring some friends and I are planning to start a monthly craft group. This started as a casual conversation on facebook about various crafts we were working on or wanted to work on. Facebook keeps me in touch with people in between seeing people in person and helps us coordinate get-togethers. Since you mention being on facebook, maybe you could try putting out an open invitation to a potluck at your house or at a park or a card night or something like that. I have a lot of friends who will post things like, "hey, I'm heading to the coffee shop for the afternoon. Meet me there!" or "Disk Golf at the park, 3:00PM! Be there!" and frequently people do show up.
My mom has had a lot of success using meetup.com to meet people. She has a group that does something every 2-3 days and people are free to come or not come as their schedules allow. Some are regular events like a walking group or their monthly Pizza and Trivia night and others are one time things like whale watching or their trip to New Orleans.
I think it's become common to think of technology as a killer to real life social networks, but if you play it right it can actually be a real help in facilitating real life relationships.
Sad Eyed Lady
3-28-11, 9:53am
Thanks everyone for your responses. On the one hand it is nice to know that it is not just me, but on the other hand "the new normal" as flowerseverywhere said is a depressing thought! Why would we trade a live human being for contract through a machine? After years of complaining about when placing a service call we never get to talk to a real person, now we are CHOOSING this form of contact!
Also, to flowerseverywhere: Yes, the place I would be moving is a specific place (the small university town near me) where there are activities, even just a nice little cafe to sit in once in awhile. But that would take some weighing as we do own our little home (paid for) and that is a pro, but I am beginning to think the cons outweigh the pros. I do belong to a small knitting group that meets one night a week in my little town, but that and our library is all that keeps me going!
The university town is not far away, but you still don't experience the level of involvement that you would living there.
And as some others have mentioned here, I do have interaction at work, (I work 3 days a week), but have planned on leaving work later this year. My boss has told me I am welcome to stay on one day a week if I want, so I may do that, but not totally sure. I would also like to experience "freedom" from having no work commitment. Seems like a lot of decisions popping up, doesn't it?
I have noticed this, too, and I am in that younger stage of life with children. What I have noticed more than anything is that people are just too busy and do not feel time with friends/family is a priority. If I do want to get together with people, I have to be the one to make the effort. I have to call them and try to set something up. Sometimes I get tired of this (not really the making the first step, but the constant re-scheduling and the feeling that we are being "squeezed in" among more important things) and just give uo for awhile. It's so unfortunate.
Just off the top of my head, I have some questions for those who's social experiences 20 years ago were more frequent and positive than they are today. I am genuinely interested in the responses as community building is kind of a hobby of mine.
-How did you meet people and maintain relationships back in the day? Where were these connections made?
-How has your life changed since then? Not the generic "world" or "society", but your particular life.
-How often do you reach out to others to try to get together? In what ways? What seems to work the best? What usually falls flat?
-How often did you get together with people at the time in your life when you were satisfied with your social interaction? Was the contact with just a few people or many? For example, every few days with the same two friends, or something going on a few times a week with a variety of people?
-How formal were your get-togethers then? How formal are they now? What were the expectations between you and your friends?
Growing up in the 50s way before technology, I recall that women had a lot more social contacts because they were home all day with kids. I remember moms playing bridge, bunco, tennis, etc together or just stopping by in the mornings for a cup of coffee. Perhaps the ability to have a little leisure time encouraged an easier mood. Technology has sped everything up and of course most women are doing ten times the activities they once did with work, home, other. I too do not like "the new normal". I appreciate the way people can connect instantly now and yes, it can be used to great advantage. However, I too notice that many people I meet/talk to in a day including my boss and my own daughter, are both carrying on a face-to-face conversation with me and texting someone else at the same time. I am finding that my most heartfelt relationships (other than dh) are with people older than myself who are not affixed to devices.
When I first started working in the early 80's, companies were different. People tended to stay at companies a long time, and there was more paternalism on the part of the company. There were employee outings, and company sponsored sports. I met a lot of people through a fun walleyball league (volleyball played on a racquetball court). I also worked a normal 8 hour day, didn't have a cell phone, and we didn't have personal computers at home or at work. Pacman was the most exciting of video games available. For a young person, work WAS my social life. Since I was transient, I didn't really care about getting involved in the community per se knowing I'd be mobile.
Today, I rarely see company sponsorship of activities, or even acknowledging the employee's social needs. Its work work work all the time, impossible deadlines, move faster, and oh by the way here's this Blackberry so we can expect you to work evenings and weekends. The expectations of what should get done in a day is much higher, and we all feel so distracted with so many interruptions (phones, email notifications). By the end of the day, and a long commute, I'm just too tired to make an effort to go out socially, and most of my friends feel the same way. Saturday is catching up on sleep and errands, and Sunday is preparing for the week ahead. There doesn't seem to be much in the way of time for "frivolous" activities like just hanging out having coffee with a friend.
My friends call me a Luddite because my phone is off most of the time, but especially in social situations. It is so very annoying to me to have a friend constantly looking at their smart phone, even when they don't answer it, I can see they are distracted and aren't really listening to me. I will agree its the new normal, but I am another person that really doesn't like it.
Good morning Stella. My head is going round and round right now because I have so much to say yet am struggling with where to start.
I'll start by turning the clock back 20 or so years, a time when DH and I didn't yet have children so life was a little more carefree. We were living in a different neighbourhood (same town) and come the weekend someone or another around the neighbourhood was planning a get-together, usually around a simple barbecue and a few outdoor games such as Lawn Darts, Croquet, or Bocce. There was a sense of contentment among those in attendance, people appreciated everyone's company and needed it.
It was less busy too. Seemed no one was on time frames of any sort, and no one was answering cell phones in your midst. Lawn chairs were full, people all talking, everyone having a good time, the kids all playing, almost as if we all had forgotten about time. No watching the clock, no worrying about this or that, just put your feet up and relax and enjoy.
During that time I spent a lot of time helping out with baby nephews and nieces, babysitting all the time, and in turn we all got together often to spend time with each other (family), visiting at everyone's houses, making plans to find a quiet little cove somewhere on the beach minutes out of town to start a fire and roast wieners and marshmallows for the afternoon and into the evening, just a general sense of need and appreciation and thanks for each other. (Television. telephones, and stereos, all took a backseat to family events and happenings in those days). People almost wanted to get out.
Seemed people were more acceptable to the approach of strangers or new neighbours back then, and once you met someone they never forgot about you. If you needed a helping hand they were there for you, if they needed a helping hand you were there for them, and so on. People also stayed home more I remember. Today, everyone is always on the fly, never sitting still. Go here, go there, go everywhere... People took pride in their surroundings spending quality time gardening, wedding, lawn-cutting, painting, and generally maintaining their belongings and properties. I see big change in all those areas today. Properties in shambles, the landscaping let go, everyone in debt and mad and angry at the world. And you never seen a weekend come and go without seeing the bustle of neighbours out and about in their yards enjoying family time. Today it's like- "where is everybody"?
One specific thing I also remember was morning coffee at the neighbours. Two neighbours in general were forever inviting me over for morning coffee, sometimes an afternoon tea. They'd call over and say- "Margaret, coffee's on, come on over", and I did when I could, just as I reciprocated and put forth effort to invite back. There was a warmth about company in those days.
There was also a sense of "come as you are" back then. No dressing up or displaying fancy for anyone, shorts, a top, a pair of sandals, and you were good to go. If you were caught short when invites unfolded, don't worry about it, come as you are- garden clothes, rubber boots, and all! Today everything is an event of sorts, flash, bling, ring-a-ding-ding.
I should make it clear that neither DH or myself are social butterfly's of sorts, so with children added to the family chemistry and mix now we get out a lot less than we used to, but we're both fine with that. Having young and growing families makes for busy times.
I feel as though people have arbitrarily chosen to shut people out of their lives now, locking themselves up inside their homes, so as far as get-togethers these days go, we stick to family (for the most part) and seldom does a weekend pass where we don't get-together as a whole to have dinner, or a barbecue, or even just an evening social at someone's place or another. Even if it's for just a couple of hours we do it. It's a release for us.
Observing people today, I see people who have forgotten how to slow down and relax, people who have forgotten about closeness and care, and people who have isolated themselves from all things interactive. I could go on and one about this, sorry for the ramble.
Great responses! I am a SAHM, so I'm sure that flexibility helps me some. I also for some reason seem to live in an area with a lot of SAHP, people who work from home or people who have somewhat alternative situations so that probably helps too.
Mrs. M, your description of your neighborhood 20 years ago brings home a point I think is really important. I think there has to be a certain amount of informality to relationships and gatherings for them to really work well. I have my weekly girls night, but if I'm not feeling well or M is not feeling well, we're free to cancel, no hard feelings. My next door neighbor stopped by this morning right after I posted my questions to check on me since I'm in my last two days of pregnancy. She was in her jammies, I was in my jammies. My house is not clean. She doesn't care. She's working from home today and only had 10 minutes, but it was still a point of contact. We talked about her upcoming wedding and my new baby. As she left I heard my daughter talking to the next-door neighbor on the other side. He is out walking his dog. He works from home too.
I do see how work could really put a damper on social time. I know there have been times in some of my friend's lives when work really eats up most of their time and energy. Bad economic times can both ease this (when people aren't working they have more time) and make it worse (people who are working are working more and more afraid of losing their jobs).
What would your ideal week or month look like socially? What does your current week/month look like?
The last few weeks have been OK for me, which is surprising considering how tired I've been. In the past two weeks:
-A friend came over to pick up some yogurt containers for seed starting. She stayed all afternoon talking. We made plans to attend a free kids movie night together next month. Her DH is coming back from deployment soon so we offered to babysit when he comes home so she can have a date night.
-Another friend brought dinner over on a Sunday evening and stayed for several hours talking.
-I went for coffee with a friend of mine at a bookstore. Talked for hours.
-We attended the weekly Lenten soup supper at church. Ran into some people I hadn't seen for a while and talked. One of my friends offered to help out this week when I have the baby. Her kids are off of school this week and she lives in walking distance of my house.
-Was invited out for dinner by some friends my parents age who insisted on treating. We stayed two hours at the restaurant even though we had our toddler with us. My dad took my older kids out for their weekly Grandpa date where they ran into a friend of my oldest DD's. DD invited her to her birthday party in a couple of weeks.
-Ran into a friend at Culvers last night and made plans for a post-baby play date for the kids.
-Learned on facebook that my neighbor just brought back her newly adopted daughter from Somalia. I'm planning to bring over a little gift once I've had my baby (Wednesday at the latest!) and see the little one.
-Made plans via facebook with another friend/neighbor to start walking together when the weather warms up and the sidewalks are no longer alternating between being ice rinks and lakes. :)
-Tonight is karate night for Cheyenne. She takes karate with a neighbor kid who is also homeschooled and a friend from her class last year. DH will catch up with the other parents a bit in the before/after karate time.
-DH had his best friend over about two weeks ago. I watched his kid and the guys went for pool and happy hour at a local bowling alley. They came back after about two hours and we all stayed up talking. His kid had fallen asleep by then so they just stayed overnight. They are planning another boys night (this one at our house) in a couple of weeks when I've recovered from the baby.
-Had a long phone conversation with another friend. She's moving (closer to me! Yay!) and I'm nesting, but we talked for about an hour about macroeconomics and social justice. We'll get together when things have settled down for both of us, but it was an excellent conversation.
Looking over this, what strikes me is that the socialization is spread over several people, with a few people at the core. It's mostly informal. The connections have been made in a variety of ways. Some of the people I've known since childhood, some are current or former neighbors, some are people I met through church.
flowerseverywhere
3-28-11, 1:19pm
Another change that has happened is people want instantaneous information leading to a lot of interruption and a whole new way of conversation. an adult actually said the letters LOL to me the other day instead of that's funny or laughing.
I don't think many people are really interested in what is going on in your life, or anything about your story. Sometimes I'll get a question about something, like my gardens and if I start to tell them something they almost immediately interrupt to say something that has nothing to do with the conversation like "my uncle planted them one year" instead of letting me finish my thought and give the info they requested.
It is different when your age group starts to have medical problems, get divorced, become grandparents, or become widowed. The dynamics change and frequently not for the better.
Lots of great insight everybody. Stella. In you mentioning your neighbour coming over to check up on you and to say hello, you made me think of me and my situation. I remember when I had a baby saddled over each hip (specifically my last two) and how two of our favourite neighbours would forever drop by to ask if I needed to escape (they were willing to babysit), or if I (we) needed anything from town in the way of groceries/incidentals. Such a godsend. It sometimes brought me to tears knowing there were people who cared enough about me to go out of their way to make sure all was well.
Back when our first was born (old neighbourhood) neighbourhood moms on all four sides of us were ready and waiting to take neighbourhood children and care for them to give those in need a break, and no one ever charged a premium for it. It was done out of sheer love and consideration. Short notice was all in a days work back then. My phone would ring and it would be neighbour needing a sitter for an hour or two, "Margaret, I know it's short notice, but can you bail me out"? "Yes, absolutely" I'd reply, and a few minutes later over would come the mother- diaper bag and baby in hand, and away she'd go! I always got such a sense of pride helping others out at a time of need. I too occasionally leaned on fellow neighbourhood moms to sit for me too when something came up where taking the time to organize one of my regular sitters was out.
Flowerseverywhere. I don't think people are interested in what's going on in other people lives either. In fact I get the feeling that it's all about "me, myself, and I" nowadays. In other words, who cares about anyone else. It hasn't yet reached a chronic stage and point, but it's there, I pick up on it often. I miss the days where neighbours (who had an abundance of fresh produce from their gardens) would arrive at your doorstep with a big brown paper shopping bag full of goodies. We still have neighbours (Italian neighbours) who regularly and faithfully spoil us each year with their gardening riches and we never forget to thank them and do something special for them when we have the chance. (There's just something so appealing and warm about sharing ones goodness with someone else regardless of whether they need it or not). It's the thought that counts.
P.S. Stella. Taking this moment to wish you a safe and healthy childbirth!
5 years ago, a couple in our social circle decided to build their community bonds before getting pregnant, so they would have connections and support in place as they moved into parenthood. Our group of friends came together when we all met in grad school in the late 90's, and we've added our partners & gathered in others from our various circles.
This couple started a tradition now called Second Saturday Supper (SSS of course!). They hosted SSS EVERY month for 4 years! They provided the house, the dishes & the main course. Often a theme was set - fondue, spring salmon backyard BBQ, etc., so the side dishes would work well with the main dish - we are a dedicated foodie crowd too. One of our gang is a gourmet dessert maker - she always brings 2-3 incredible offerings. Some months for our contribution, we would cook all day, some months we'd stop at the coop for a great bread & some olive oil.
When their baby was born, we were all available to them. He just turned 4, and by the time he was 2, he knew us all, and greeted us by name as we walked into his house. My stepkids love SSS, and often brought friends when they were in high school. The hosts have slowed down over the last year; we haven't gotten together every month, and we all miss it. Once or twice someone else has hosted.
It's been an incredible gathering... one of our core members came despite the fact that her mom had died hours before - she knew we would be there to hold her. When my DSD came back from college this winter, she was so excited that a SSS was happening, and she couldn't wait to see everyone. The hosts son remembered her too, even though it had been 8 months since he'd seen her! I think that blew her mind...
This is the third formal, monthly supper gathering group I have participated in since my college days, and I find this model to be incredible. The one I went to in the 90's rotated homes, and the host could cook a gourmet meal or order in pizza. It was a smaller group - under 10. SSS is often 30 people. I recommend this model as an awesome way to socialize regularly, and build friendships that flow over outside Second Saturday. Plus who can resist having fun over awesome home cooked food & good wine? Make sure you have a dessert expert!
Sad Eyed Lady
3-28-11, 4:04pm
I agree that time is a factor, but that was part of my point: when we were all younger, working full time away from home, and some with small children, we got together pretty regularly. Now that we are older, kids are grown and gone, some work only part time or some are retired, but the personal closeness is not there. Closeness, yes, but not physical. I get emails and facebook messages by the tons from one of these close friends, but not real face to face time. Sometimes just dropping into her home I feel that I have intruded. She even posted on facebook the other day that she loves being able to stay up with her community by reading on facebook. So that leads me to believe that she, (and apparently many others), actually prefer electronic communication over real people. I don't know, it just makes me sad.
You guys are great by the way, even if this is a cyber community!
this so reminds me of my daughter's situation. She is 24 and seems to have almost no "social life". Always on the computer and has almost no interaction with young adults her own age. She does the facebook thing but it is not the same as face to face social events. If it were not for church and work, I don't think she would ever talk to anyone in person. Most kids her age have moved on, some out of town for college and did not come back, or married and so busy. The others are involved in activities in which I am glad she has no part of. I think we have all forgotten how to visit and take time to really maintain our relationships.
domestic goddess
3-28-11, 5:42pm
Shalom poet, I can't answer whether or not your expectations are too high. They probably would be for me, but I'm not even getting the amount of alone time I need now. What do your friends say when you invite them over? They may be needing some "down time" now that the kids have left. Oh, those first few weeks sans kids, after years of the racket and the general "busyness", are heavenly!
I have found volunteer work to be very rewarding. I also belong to my church's shawl ministry. Even though I can't get to meetings now because I'm working when they are held, I can still make my shawls and take them in. But I really enjoyed the meetings, and am looking forward to a time when I can attend.
While I am one to use electronic media, I do like a good face-to-face, especially when talking about serious issues. That is when I do like to hear a person's voice and intonation, to be sure I am understanding them correctly. Otherwise, I never needed much personal interaction, and I rarely miss it.
Mrs. M, we work on short notice here too. Just this afternoon the friend who had offered to help out this week when I saw her at church took my oldest two kids for the afternoon while I went to my last OB appointment. Very last minute, but it was really nice. The girls get bored in the waiting room.
Redfox I love the SSS idea! So cool! I may borrow that this summer. I was thinking of doing a monthly or even weekly potluck by the pool once it's nice out. Even if it was just hot dogs, chips and root beer floats it would still be a chance to get together.
Something that occurred to me as I was thinking about this today is that transition times in our lives frequently are the hardest on friendships and community. Flowerseverywhere and Tenngal's comments made me think of it. Age 25 or so was one of those times for most people I know. Some of us were having kids, others were starting careers and some of those we were friends with were still in the early 20's "party mode". I am friends with a lot of people I knew in high school and college, but the friendships look very different today than they did then. Get-togethers involve whole families, for example, and don't last until 3AM. :) I think this shift was harder on those who didn't have kids, but after a few years those people seemed to find their place in the scheme of things.
I know my parents experienced similar feelings when they became empty nesters. Friendships that had once been family oriented now took on more of a "single" feel again, but obviously did not go back to exactly the way they had been in the pre-kid days. Similar to the way marriages have to reinvent themselves at each stage, I think friendships do too.
I have never thought about it, but I bet becoming grandparents does represent another shift, probably similar to the parenthood shift in the mid-twenties to early 30s. It's more of a shift back towards family in some ways. Not at the all-the-time level of early parenthood, but still a shift. I think, too, that you have to stay open to new friendships. Both of my parents have been really successful at that in their 60s. I would say over half of their current close friendships have been made in the last 5 years and both have a social life to rival most college kids.
I think it's easy to blame technology for a lack of social connection, but there are vibrant communities out there waiting to be built or engaged with. There are other people out there who hunger for real life interaction, but they may not be the same people who filled those needs in the past. Also, the people who filled those needs in the past may fill those needs again in the future, but just need some patience while they adjust to new circumstances. Community and friendships work best when there's a fluidity to them.
fidgiegirl
3-28-11, 10:11pm
This thread is really striking a chord with me. I am lamenting what feels like a lack of close friendships in my life. Lots of acquaintances and - yes - FB friends, but really deep friendships - few. So several things have been said that ring true for me personally. Yes, I do think technology contributes. I, for example, am not that into casual texting like my friends are. I also don't usually enjoy talking on the phone just for the hell of it. I can chat 'til the cows come home face-to-face, but don't generally pick up the phone just to have a chat. I do like FB, and like that it keeps me in touch with people I haven't seen in a while, but then I also think, what's the point if we're never going to see each other, anyway?
Someone commented about always being the one initiating the face-to-face get togethers. I used to feel that way with my friends, too, a lot of the time. People would always cancel or b**ch about the timeframe not being right, or the restaurant, or blahdeeblahdeeblah. That, coupled with the fact that they are not initiating very many face-to-face plans, makes one wonder how invested they are in the friendship. So I quit initiating. And as I type this, I realize that with this group, I do the same thing when someone else makes the effort (at least, the canceling part.). :( This is a group that I have been friends with since high school, but they stress me out. I am wondering if the time has finally come to go our separate ways.
The other thing that really resonated is that people don't really want to know about other people. I am starting to believe that more and more. Particularly with a few members of my DH's family, and that's really hard. If I start to offer up something about myself, they switch the subject - generally back to themselves. :( If hard pressed, each of the in-laws in question would have quite a difficult time to be able to tell much about me beyond superficial stuff like what my job is. I try to just smile and nod and realize that is how they are and even if I were to call them out on it, they wouldn't believe me and then I'd just look like a jerk. Even some of my closest friends are that way. They are not the kind of person you go to when you need a vent or to share a dream or even to talk politics, even though we agree! They are the people to go to when you want to have an adventure, or do something fun. But listening, knowing each other deeply? Nope.
Now thank God I have a small group of college friends that, though we don't see each other often, I feel I can tell almost anything and always feel invigorated and refreshed when I see them. We have a bi-monthly book club but spend most of our time chatting about life in general. One is going to have a baby now and though I'm super happy for them, I'm nervous that she will have a hard time making book club now. I hope she still will be able to. We all value it so much.
The last thing that really made me think is the transition thing. I have been married within the last two years, and I feel I am drifting from the friend group mentioned above. They are still doing the dating stuff that I was doing like ten years ago. The games, the drama, it is exhausting. They are all good people, but it's hard to get excited about spending time with them. And I'm sure to them I'm the boring married lady. I've always been the boring one, actually. >8)
Well, anyway, thanks for starting this thread. Feels good to be able to get it out there and to know that I'm not the only one feeling this way.
I would like us to try some of the ideas suggested in the thread, too. For example, I'd like to join a church because of the community aspect. But then, and this is so dumb, I don't want to join a church because I don't want to join my BIL and SIL's church anymore, which at one time I thought I did, because I'm not in love with the new minister. And since my BIL was on the search committee that chose that new minister, it would be hurtful if we joined somewhere else. So for now, that's not going anywhere.
In my later 60's, I see similar issues with quite a few feeling quite lonely. I have joined an artist workshop where we have an open or drop-in session every Thursday. Men and women both enjoy doing some art work of their choosing, have a cup of tea and some discussion about so many topics and then off we go home.
I recently bought a music appreciation course from the Teaching Company and a few of us get together to listen to it once a week. We have discussions of all kinds, vent and simply support one another as we face the challenges of ill spouses, death in family, etc.
What I found out is that there is a need for a good catalyst or someone who acts as a synchronizer of people to make the getting together and the social time work. I can support efforts in many ways but I am not a synchroniser so tell those that are capable of doing so that they are very special people.
Wildflower
3-29-11, 3:54am
Well, I definitely think technology has changed how people relate to each other and not for the better. I notice many being content with only Facebook interaction, email and texting. I miss the close friendships I had many years ago. No one seems to have the time these days....
domestic goddess
3-30-11, 8:48am
A lot of things in life change as we age. My dd moved out shortly after my dh died, so I was really alone rather suddenly. I found I rather liked it, after years of caretaking and childcare. I am very protective of my alone time, and my family time now. I gave up on friendships with other women some time ago. Most wanted me to listen endlessly to their complaints about their SO, their dramas with SO and children, etc., but few wanted to listen to me! I know my life is not the most exciting around, but what about a little reciprocity? After I've spent an hour listening to your drama, can't you give me 5 minutes? Geez.
...I gave up on friendships with other women some time ago. Most wanted me to listen endlessly to their complaints about their SO, their dramas with SO and children, etc., but few wanted to listen to me! I know my life is not the most exciting around, but what about a little reciprocity? After I've spent an hour listening to your drama, can't you give me 5 minutes? Geez.
Ha! I've had the same experience. I can almost hear the person on the other end of the line breaking out their manicure tools when it's my turn to talk. I'm not one to natter on at length about nothing, so I don't know what the deal is, but I've pretty much given up on being heard--probably why I vastly prefer communicating via e-mail.
I have been feeling a lack of friendship for a while. Being an at-home-parent, and a writer, I rarely interact with other people outside of my children and the grocery clerk. Part of it, certainly, is that my wife being the working one doesn't want to see people on the weekend. "I see people all week, during the weekend I need a break," so when we are invited over by friends, it's greeted by her with groans. For the same reason, I feel restricted about inviting people over here, so many times, we'll start friendships, and then they'll just drop off the face of the map.
I do some volunteer work with bicycle advocacy in my city, and I also belong to the local beekeeper's group, so I do go out and interact with other adults, but I don't have anyone around I would really confide in, and that seems like a big gap. (It's uncomfortable, when you have a complaint about your wife, to confide in another at-home-parent who is female. Playgroups for children are always tricky that way for at-home-dads).
Is it just me or does it seem that real face-to-face relationships have gone by the wayside? (
It's not just you. I have the same problem. Everyone I know is so attached to either some form of social media (facebook, twitter, etc..) or "socializing" via their cell phone or e-mail that they never have time for real face to face time. Most of them don't even have time for normal phone conversations - they only have time while they are commuting or on lunch break. And even if you do finally get together with them, they spend most of that time yapping on their cell phone or texting other people! So rude and drives me batty!!!!!!!!! They also expect me to be "on and available" at all times and get put out when I'm not. I don't do facebook or twitter, and I leave my cell phone off and never talk on it, and I rarely check my e-mail not having internbet access at home. Drives them batty Ha ha!! Most of those type of friendships have fallen to the wayside unfortunately but it leaves me more time for my "sports" friends. People I play sports with and do alot of recreational activities with. This is where I put my face to face "relationship" focus on now.
I agree with all of the above. One thing I have noticed is that is is far easier to have friends when your children are still in the home. Because of their many activities you are thrown together with other adults with which you have things in common. When the children are grown and gone, you have to work alot harder to socialize. Many people can't be bothered.
Also some people are lucky enough to have large, extended families. This can really fill up your social calender. But when you don't have this, like Shalom Poet, then again you have a smaller group to reach out to. I, too, have practically given up on individuals. I got tired of doing all the inviting. So now my husband and I join more formal groups. If they have regular meetings then you can count on the social interaction.
Seems like it's kind of an epidemic these days. I'm close to some online friends who I have either never met or have only met once or twice at a convention or something.
I do have a few close friends and a sister near by. But I'm lucky if I see them once a month. And my best friend moved to Atlanta and I only get to see her once a year.
I have never understood My Face!
HappyHiker
4-21-11, 9:33am
Yes, it's true, we've become more socially isolated in real time..perhaps closer in virtual friendship, which is just not the same thing, IMHO. There was a book a while back that addressed our new social isolation entitled Bowling Alone.
What to do?
I've formed or joined some different groups and connected with more social relationships since moving to our little town. The city friendships I had were much as the original poster described--too busy, too distracted, too hassled to do much together.
It's a real need for me, these connections, as I work alone in the house as a writer, I can get squirrely with just the companionship of my spouse (albeit he's a wonderful friend)-- I very much also need female friendship and perspective.
Right now I belong to a bi-weekly writers' group, a weekly breakfast group, volunteer on the board of The Friends of the Library, and am part of a monthly Women's Night Out where we dine at a restaurant or do a potluck at one of our homes.
Whenever I'm feeling lonely or in need, I try to reach out and organize something--a walk and talk, a bike ride, a thrift store outing or something else spur of the moment.
I've learned that many of us are lonely, at times, and love to be invited to do something. If our current crop of friends have become too distanced and entranced by technology, maybe it's time to seek out other kindred spirits--more neo-Luddites like ourselves who use technology but have not become entirely ensnared in it's Web...
Being pro-active makes me feel empowered when I'm down in the dumps and feeling un-friended...
I read somewhere (or was it on NPR) that there is now a huge percentage of Americans who have absolutely no social support - no friends, no family. How sad considering that humans are social animals, so they say. I get my "social time" at work and with dh at home. If/when something happens to him though, I would lack for a best friend. I notice all the older people in my neighborhood are much friendlier and likely to strike up a conversation if I am out walking than any of the younger people who have moved in recently. There are some who look at you funny if you even say hello.
I am older and divorced, children are grown with their own families, although I see them a lot, and I work with my sons. However, one cannot rely on family alone. I long for some close friendships with other women, although I still maintain my friendships with a few but they do not live close by. Since I have made a major move and job change, I have not found "my people" - liberal thinkers, readers, etc. I am sure part of it is my fault for not getting "out there." I live in a very conservative area of SoCal, but I'm sure there must be some others like me - I just haven't found them.
I have tried getting involved at church, but that isn't working because of my inability to buy into all of it. I go for the sake of my 90 year old father - I take him to church on Sunday. He is a Christian (as is the rest of my whole family) and I do not want to disappoint him. But that is a whole other story. I mention it here because I do think a lot of people get comfort and friendship through church.
I do think loneliness is part of the human condition. We are social animals albeit on a spectrum.
HappyHiker
4-22-11, 5:57pm
I am older and divorced, children are grown with their own families, although I see them a lot, and I work with my sons. However, one cannot rely on family alone. I long for some close friendships with other women, although I still maintain my friendships with a few but they do not live close by. Since I have made a major move and job change, I have not found "my people" - liberal thinkers, readers, etc. I am sure part of it is my fault for not getting "out there." I live in a very conservative area of SoCal, but I'm sure there must be some others like me - I just haven't found them.
I have tried getting involved at church, but that isn't working because of my inability to buy into all of it. I go for the sake of my 90 year old father - I take him to church on Sunday. He is a Christian (as is the rest of my whole family) and I do not want to disappoint him. But that is a whole other story. I mention it here because I do think a lot of people get comfort and friendship through church.
I do think loneliness is part of the human condition. We are social animals albeit on a spectrum.
To find readers, could you do some volunteering with the Friends of the Library? I've found some wonderful kindred spirits there...or if there's a nearby Unitarian church, I suspect there are open-minded, non-dogmatic folks to be found there.
rodeosweetheart
4-30-11, 7:39pm
Shalom, Shalom! I don't think your expectations are too high, jsut like Mrs. M said, and I think you have put your finger on what has been bugging me so much lately. I was lucky to land a job fulltime online, but it means I am constantly on the net working, and I am really, really unhappy with the lack of social life--we never do anything anymore, and thelast thing I want to do is look at Facebook. (I do come here, but that's it.)
We too are wanting to move, and this is something we will def. look for. I want to have friends again. My own MOTHER prefers to e-mail, and she is 85. I HATE E-MAIL. I do have one female friend here in our new town that I really adore, but I AM ALWAYS WORKING and I feel I never have any time to do anything. And if I complain, I feel like telling myself, or I hear, you are so lucky to have a job at all, and HEALTH INSURANCE. (It paid for my husband's emergency surgerythis year, and we have chronic helath issues. But, I feel this new 24/7 worklife is killing me.)
I do have kids and miss them horribly. One is moving to the midwest in a month and I think we will move back to the midwest to be closer to two of the kids. Not constant, across the street- but once a month dinner maybe?
I so miss the good old days as a SAHM, taking the kids to the pool, teaching them to play tennis, playing Scrabble, laughing together as a family. I miss doing real things in the real world.
Ugh.
We did live in a university town though, a tiny one, and be real careful that it's big enough for you not to feel trapped. We never saw any different faces for the 4 years wwe lived there--it was like living in Brigadoon. I hated it.
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