View Full Version : Starting Over at 61 and Where We Messed Up Big Time
Have any of you reached your late 50's and older and discovered you still are living paycheck to paycheck in a job that is killing you and you don't even have enough money to go to the movies let alone money for emergencies or retirement.
That is where my husband and I are right now. Meanwhile all our friends are retiring and going to Europe, on cruises, travelling around the country in their motorhomes. If it wasn't for our son and his wife we would be in the street. They have done everything we should have done when we were young. They are financially free and pretty well set for their lives and only in their 30's. They are able to give to others whenever and how much they want and they do above and beyond. We can hardly afford to put a few bucks in the offering plate at church.
We have had major medical bills since our 30's, but in looking back I can see I made the wrong career choices and no matter what, we should have set aside a little each month in savings even if it meant we went without a loaf of bread for that week. The money would have added up by now. So even with medical bills we could have made different choices. We never went on vacations, or bought new cars or bought luxury items. We didn't have the money. Even though we lived fairly frugally, it really doesn't matter if you continue to make the wrong choices.
I cannot believe the situation we are in right now. In the last few decades of our lives and absolutely nothing to show for it.
But, there is still no excuse. We can start now. This isn't a self pity feel sorry for me post, it is a random out loud thinking and just wondering if we are the only ones sitting in this boat still out in the middle of the sea trying to reach the shore.
Has anyone else in their 60's started over with very little money and what did you do to change things? I love reading about other people's life changing experiences and what they did to turn their lives around. It fascinates me. And I would love to hear from you guys if anyone would care to share.
Thanks :)
Welcome to the boards, Corkym.
Try not to beat yourself up. We all convince ourselves our choices are good ones while we're making them. And we all find out sometimes we were deluding ourselves. I tend to dwell on the past even though I've got a very good life, and I'm seeing firsthand that this laundry list of regrets is pointless. "There's no time like the present" isn't just a feel good motivator, it's the truth!
There is a site called Mr. Money Mustache. They can be harsh and some of them are very boastful about their successes or how they're saving 75% of their monthly income or whatnot, but if you post your monthly expenses, they're a great resource for getting ideas on how to cut costs.
What helped me on the road to financial freedom was deciding to save money, but it was also spending time with some people who made about $30K between the two of them and were nevertheless extremely happy and living a life they loved. This was back in the early 90s, and it was truly a revelation to me, that the whole "you need at least a million dollars each to retire and be ok" was a bunch of nonsense. What I needed was to understand what made me happy, which wasn't usually about spending a lot of money.
A couple of good starting places, I'd say:
1. Figure out where your money is going. The more detailed the better. It's easier to figure out how to trim your budget or get ideas from others about how to do it if you have some specific numbers or specific areas to cut down.
2. Get out of debt. I know, a four word sentence that can take years to accomplish, but it's important and it's possible. Stop accumulating more debt, pick a bill, and make that sucker go away.
3. Acknowledge that you probably can't have everything you want. You can have everything you need, though, and you can have many things you want (it does help if what you want doesn't cost an arm and a leg!)
4. Remember, there's no time like the present. You may be 61, but the past is the past, no matter how old you are, and your future is in your hands.
5. Come here and rant and rave and ask and share. :)
I love your positive response and the fact that "you march to your own accordion...." lol. Those are very good points, in fact I am going to print them out and put them where I can see them.
I do have a tendency to beat myself up in the boxing ring and I usually lose. The one thing we have learned is not to spend money on luxury items. One of the things our son and his wife helped us get under control was we used to rescue feral and stray cats for about 7 yrs. Very expensive hobby....haha. They helped us find good homes for all of them and when we get a car again I know I will volunteer somewhere but I will not make my home into a sanctuary again. That was one of the poor choices we made.
I love reading all the different stories on here. And I appreciate you taking the time to respond. And giving some very good ideas for me to act upon. I will check out that website. Thank you again Kib!
lessisbest
6-8-15, 12:21pm
Ditto on everything kib said....and a few other things.
-When we left our 50's (hubby will be 64 in July and I'm 62) we set our home budget to the amount hubby is scheduled to receive from social security. It will quickly show you where you need to focus. We have other retirement funds, but this will give most people a good point to start.
-Get healthy and stay healthy.
-You will need to plan on working longer, and probably work part-time after you retire.
-If you don't own your home, consider moving to low-income housing for seniors. The rent is based on your income, minus your bills.
-If where you live is expensive, consider moving to where it's less-expensive.
-Go to the library and check out Dave Ramsey's "Total Money Makeover" book, and check out his web site: http://www.daveramsey.com/new/baby-steps/
Hi Lessisbest :) I especially agree with the get healthy and stay healthy. That was part of our problem. My husband was on dialysis for 9 years and it did a real number on his body. He was blessed with a transplant and it changed his life for the better, but he still has many health related issues. Then I had a heart attack they said was due to stress, so I need to learn to quit swinging on the trapeze of emotions and chill.
I know I will be working til the day I drive myself to the cemetary. We won't be able to afford someone to dig the hole for me, so I will probably do that too.
Our son bought a house for us to rent and so we are very blessed our rent was significantly reduced and he relocated us to Texas from Calif. Big Big Big expense reducer :) Great idea about Dave Ramsey. I still have his book, I need to get it out and read it. Doesn't do any good if you use it for a door stop.
I love your idea about setting your home budget to what you make. Excellent idea! I am going to do that too.
Wow, two replies and tons of good ideas already :) Thank you so much!
Your situation makes two of us! (or four of us if you count spouses).
I'm broke (well, I do have a small amount of equity in my home)--and what is even more maddening is that I changed careers when I was 46 and went from having a poverty-line income to a salary a lot of people would be envious of. And I STILL have nothing!!! How dumb is THAT?? My circumstances have to do with some very poor decisions I made with regard to "helping" other people. I've never bought a fancy car, or a Prada bag. I don't have a housekeeper, I don't buy jewelry, we don't go out to movies or plays anymore, and 90% of my furniture is second-hand. So what's a nice girl like me doing in a place like this?
Oh, well, I've beaten that drum all too often, and now all I can do is plan for the future. Kib's suggestions are great. As for me I plan on working until my clients won't have me anymore. I related to how you have friends who are all retired living the high life--I just went to a mini-college reunion, and that's what I found,too.
And, like kib, I find a lot of inspiration on people who don't need much money. I've stopped reading any article that suggests that you need a couple of million to retire..if that's true, I might was well shoot myself right now. I'm not about to do that, because, honestly, as my great uncle said, money is just a means of exchange. I have everything I need, right here, right now.
Your past behavior with regard to money is no indictment on your character--remember that. You may feel you've made dumb mistakes, but who hasn't? Congratulate yourself on raising a son who gets it!
Is there any extra income you can pick up? I'm sure you've probably looked into that, but there are lots of creative ways to earn a few bucks. I ditto kib's suggestion to go to Dave Ramsey and Mr. Money Mustache. At least you find a lot of support for living low income but large.
Hi Catherine - Well, you actually sound eons ahead of me in the smartness dept. At least when you made a career change you are making more money. I went waaaay backwards to the bottom of the food chain. My husband and I have always said the reason our son Tanner is so successful is he must have one day sat down with a pen and paper and made a list of everything mom and dad did. And then he just did everything opposite from us and that is why he is doing so well. So, really he has us to thank for all of his success>8) I cannot believe the poor choice I made as far as working when we moved to Texas. I went from being a paid employee to a contractor with the same company. I am barely making minimum wage most days now after working for them for 14 yrs., because they pay me per report I do. When I moved I was making fairly good money for what I did. We are without a car right now, but when we get one I will be looking for something else. A Walmart greeter makes more than me and they don't have the stress. But you are right I too "have beaten that drum all too often" and it is time to move on and burn that bridge the past is sitting on.
I think you are very smart and brave to be facing reality right now C. It's hard and looking back is only good if it helps you make choices going forward that help. Otherwise just let it go. Much more easily said than done. You've been given many good suggestions that you can implement and will amaze yourself with your strength. You've survived difficult times and kept going. Pat yourself on the back and acknowledge what you are doing well. I'll be interested in following your journey.
ApatheticNoMore
6-8-15, 2:01pm
I related to how you have friends who are all retired living the high life--I just went to a mini-college reunion, and that's what I found,too.
those friends sound highly abnormal as a point of comparison. No, not everyone arrives at retirement age penniless, yes some people are able to retire. But to retire and take trips to Europe all the time? Thanks frankly atypical, only the most well off can do that. Most retirements are MUCH more modest - maybe volunteering locally and doing cheap hobbies and so on - as long as health allows. I mean lets all compare ourselves to the tippy top in terms of income and wealth and how they live. But unless something is actually being achieved by such a comparison .... why look at such a skewed end of the income distribution?
True my generation (late 30s) is probably overall poorer, that generation was overall richer, so there might be slightly more people that were able to reach that.
I've stopped reading any article that suggests that you need a couple of million to retire..if that's true, I might was well shoot myself right now.
yes I mean I might try to rationalize that if I'm single it means I "only" need 1 million right? But I don't have 1 million ....
You may feel you've made dumb mistakes, but who hasn't? Congratulate yourself on raising a son who gets it!
Yea, the dumb mistakes - well at least the dumb mistakes weren't with parenting if their kids are doing well.
I have found that it is helpful and downright inspirational to read blogs of people who are living a frugal and thrifty life and enjoying it. I no longer watch materialistic TV shows where what you have and where you live determine a person's value.
Here are a couple of blogs where I have found some inspiration:
www.frugalqueen.co.uk She got really mad at the financial spot they found themselves in and decided to do something drastic about it. They now have totally downsized and are planning for the future for retirement.
http://meanqueen-lifeaftermoney.blogspot.com A funny little blog about a single woman in the UK who has little money and stretches it very far. She is creative and loves walking hostel stay holidays.
I think reading and following the steps of Your Money or Your Life can put some balance and knowledge in the financial discussions. You will find out where you are and start setting some goals for the future.
flowerseverywhere
6-8-15, 4:05pm
Do you spend any money at all on the following things?
meals out
coffee not brewed at home
soda
cable tv
books and/or magazines
clothes beyond what you absolutely need
storage lockers
do you throw food away because you did not get around to preparing or eating it
late charges, speeding or parking tickets and the like
if you do, figure out how not to. This list is just some of the ways we waste money.
if you read Mr momey mustache they would label you as being in a hair on fire situation. They will be harsh but if you are serious go over there for a good read.
Secondly, go to your library and get Dave Ramsey, your money or your life, tightwad gazette. There are lots of books out there to help you. I don't particularly like Dave Ramsey, but he is the exact right person for some.
Write down every penny you spend. See where you are spending.
You Can do it. Most of us have been there. Past mistakes don't mean you will continue to make them.
awakenedsoul
6-8-15, 4:14pm
corkym, You're not alone. There are so many people these days who are in the same situation. Suze Orman would probably say that you are still young, and that you can make changes. She has some free podcasts on her website. They are very helpful. Dave Ramsey also has a radio show that you can listen to each day. I find it helpful to hear other people's stories, and to see what he will say. You've gotten a lot of good advice already. For me, the main thing that's helped has been to track what I spend. It's very eye opening. Also, some of the people your age who have retired may not have planned it. I'm 50, and I expected to be working into my 70's. I ended up retiring early to avoid losing money in a business that was no longer earning a profit. I do get to travel a bit, but that's because I live super frugally all year. I take the bus and train in order to do so. I've cut way back, (no television, etc...) You never really know what's going on with people. I'm reading a couple of excellent books on this subject right now. One is called Retire Sooner Than You Think, by Wes Moss, the other is The Cheapskate Next Door, by Jeff Yeager.
For various reasons, we did not start saving seriously until we were around 50-ten years ago. Prior to that, money was usually tight and I think there was some "magical thinking" about things turning out OK regardless of effort. I know that with serious or chronic health issues we might be in trouble too financially even with fairly good insurance. We got lucky since the little cracker barrel house we bought turned out to go way up in value over the years. We will sell and move someplace cheaper.
I think counting what you do have rather than comparing will make you feel better - a roof over your head, food on the table etc. I too ignore the articles about what you must have financially to retire. I noticed in the http://www.city-data.com/forum/retirement forum that there are a lot of posts from older folks talking about how to get by or retire on little income. You might check there for inspiration.
Wow! So many great responses and ideas! I am going to start having to make notes. I remember reading Your Money or Your Life several years ago and actually passed it on to my son. Maybe he got some of his ideas from that book. For the last 6 mos. we have been without a car and that has forced us to really track what we need and don't need. We never really went out to restaurants, but we would go to Taco Bell and McDonalds and use their dollar menu. But now, we can't just run over there whenever we want, we have to plan out our meals and all of a sudden I learned what an oven is for. I work about 50 hrs a week and relied on a lot of quick foods like tv dinners, etc. I always used coupons or waited til they were on sale but they aren't healthy even if they are Lean Cuisine. I agree about being careful what you watch on t.v. We dropped cable a long time ago and a few months ago dropped netflix. We have the same clothes we have worn for yrs. I can't even remember the last time we bought any clothing. I am going to start tracking everything because there has to be money leaks somewhere. And I am going to dig out some old books I have by Dave Ramsey, The Tightwad Gazette, etc. This sounds actually like a real challenge, a real game. It could even be fun :) I think it was ApatheticNoMore that said my generation probably has more money than her/his generation. I think that might be true, because all I know is my friends and family members are always posting photos of their trips and houses, etc. But these are people that went to college and stayed in the same career until they retired. Thanks for the blog info and websites. Everyone here is so helpful and encouraging.
Oh, yes, on the Frugal Queen blog. It's my main inspiration besides Dave Ramsey. I suggest you read it from the beginning. I love it.
Dave Ramsey also has a radio show that you can listen to each day. I find it helpful to hear other people's stories, and to see what he will say.
I LOVE Dave Ramsey's podcast. I listen to it in the car all the time. I love his no-nonsense approach. He makes me laugh, even when I see myself in some of those hapless stories.
Hello CorkyM:
I like these blogs for day-to-day frugal living encouragement, people who are walking the walk and share some of their frugal expertise:
http://thenonconsumeradvocate.com/
http://www.thefrugalgirl.com/
Good luck on your quest and we will enjoy cheering you on!
Thanks everyone! I am all inspired now. I have been checking out some of these blogs and they are very motivating. I have been pretty down for a long time and everything seems so hopeless, but it is pretty cool seeing that other people are making it and maybe the light at the end of the tunnel isn't a train coming to run me down but maybe is actually a flashlight leading the way. You all seem to be holding flashlights. Maybe it is very possible we can get out of debt and start having a life where I don't wake up at 3 am counting our pennies found in the couch and worrying constantly, can't wait to share this with my husband......
flowerseverywhere
6-8-15, 8:46pm
You are a great sport for taking all these suggestions into consideration. Usually when people ask for help great positive suggestions are given only to find they really didn't want advice.
Also, don't judge how much money people have by what they spend. There are many people who live modestly with big bank accounts and many who live lavishly but paycheck to paycheck,and mortgaged and borrowed to the hilt. Some people have ended up widowed, become ill, unplanned pregnancies, natural disasters etc. even with the best of intentions life happens. The most important thing is to live your life the best you can with whatever is thrown your way.
You are smart to plan the best you can because there is no retirement fairy.
Yep, I know you are right flowerseverywhere. We ignorantly believed there was a retirement fairy. We must've believed it because we just kept on keeping on without putting aside savings. There was always "next year". Guess what we found. Life is like a piece of pie. Say there are 8 or 9 pieces in a pie and each piece represents a decade. We have already eaten 6 of those pieces and there are only 2 or 3 left. Only 2 if we don't start getting healthy, and if we keep eating pie.
I've had to start over again myself this past year (I'm almost 50 and DH is mid-50's) and it's slow..but I'm seeing progress.
We'd been debt free several times and then repeat some stupid mistakes.
There has been a lot of wonderful advice. You can do it!
I'm reading Frugal Queen's blog from the beginning again.
You cannot make decision about things you dont' know. In the spirit of "Your Money or Your Life", track every penny....every day....for this month. Tally up by categories on July 1.
Do you need every expenditure? Are some of them wants? Keep thinking these questions with every expense you write down.
Keep tracking every penny and don't ever stop. Be sure every expense adds meaning and value to your day.
You will see trends and you will make changes.
Every time you spend green money, throw the change in a jar. Add that up at the end of the month and make that the beginning of savings for your future. $100 at the end of the year is more than you had at the beginning.
Baby steps add up. This is a starting place. We're never too old to make good habits. Forget about the old and trying to change those. Make new good habits.
And hug that son every day you can :-) He's a gem!
Today is a gift. That is why it is called the present. Gardnr
" It's hard and looking back is only good if it helps you make choices going forward that help. Otherwise just let it go." You are so right nswef. Some lessons in the past we do need to keep in our file cabinet, but the ones that just keep beating us down need to be shredded and put out on the curb for the garbage truck to pick up.
"Baby steps add up. This is a starting place. We're never too old to make good habits. Forget about the old and trying to change those. Make new good habits." I like that Gardnr. That puts it in a whole new light.
We are lucky in that it will be easy to track our expenses. It is amazing how our spending has curtailed since we haven't had a car for six months. We borrow our son's minivan once a week to do grocery shopping and pick up prescriptions, but that is all. We have really had to budget and make sure we don't forget anything. It has been a big help in forcing us to sit down and make a list. If we forget to pick something up then we are forced to be resourceful. Its amazing how it is not essential to have paper towels.....haha. You can actually use rags, towels, washcloths, ect.
Float On: "It is slow but we are seeing progress". Thanks for reminding me it is a slow process, so as not to feel defeated because it doesn't happen overnight.
pinkytoe: "I think there was some "magical thinking" about things turning out OK regardless of effort." I totally can relate and that coupled with flowerseverywhere saying "there is no retirement fairy" (that really hit me) I really do think that describes my past. I may have been sitting in the chair of reality but my eyes were focused looking for that magical fairy that was on its way over to my house. It flew right on by apparently.
Awakenedsoul: I agree, you never know what really is going on in people's lives. I have been surprised at some people that I thought "had it all together" and later found out their world was crumbling aroundthem.
Rosarugosa, tradd and sweetana3 I am definitely looking into all those blogs and websites you have suggested plus what others have mentioned, such as books and radio shows. I have made a list of them all.
Thank you everyone for all your encouragement and advice. If I follow all of these great ideas I just may end up being debt free and only having to work part time when I turn 70 in another 9 yrs. :thankyou:
anyone can change their life. My mominlaw at 80 decided one year after dad's death to move 600 miles to be closer to us. We sold the house, she sold the car and furniture. She gave away a huge amount of stuff and threw away more. We moved her here and she started over.
Found her a lovely apartment with transportation, gave her furniture (I must have thought this would happen and had scoured auctions and such), set her up with doctor and hairdresser and other needed things. It has been almost 3 years and she is now comfortable with many things to do each week. She is now starting to think about traveling and it looks like I might be her companion.
She lives on SS and a tiny pension. We top up if necessary but she is very independent and doing very well. This for a woman that had never had a credit card or voted in 80 years.
I like frugalqueen because she got MAD and they worked together to reach a goal. She never said woe is me.
Its amazing how it is not essential to have paper towels
So true. I think we buy about two rolls a year if that - strictly for pet messes, etc. Instead, I bought a pack of 12 cheap dish cloths that we use and wash over and over. I also save the unused napkins from work functions that would otherwise be thrown away. Amazes me when I see people buying those gigantic 12 paks of paper towels at the store.
TVRodriguez
6-9-15, 10:38am
Hi corkym! You are really taking the right steps. There have been lots of great suggestions here. I wanted to point out something I didn't see addressed already. You said:
I cannot believe the poor choice I made as far as working when we moved to Texas. I went from being a paid employee to a contractor with the same company. I am barely making minimum wage most days now after working for them for 14 yrs., because they pay me per report I do. When I moved I was making fairly good money for what I did.
My suggestion is to increase your income by re-negotiating with your company. Tell them that you are going to raise your rate or switch to an hourly fee (still as a contractor). If you were working for them for 14 years and you do good work, then they may find it easier to keep you rather than replace you. They know that they are getting too good a deal--not only are they paying less for your services than they were before, but they also are saving on the brick and mortar office you used to use. So you can tell them that you are adjusting your rates as of July 1. If that doesn't work for them, then you finish your last report and find that Walmart greeter job or other local job.
They obviously like your work or they would not have agreed to the distance work in the first place. Know your value to them. If you provide value, then you have the right to charge for it. Be assertive, not sad-sack about it. Easier said than done. But practice the conversation with your husband or son. Or by yourself. But you can do this! Good luck.
TVRodriguez
6-9-15, 10:41am
Oh, and a second suggestion: turn off whatever social media you are using to see the "posts" that you described of other people's homes and vacations. I used to use facebook and it was a time suck for me. Or else I'd start to do the math and wonder how X person could afford Y thing, and it was really none of my business. (Or I'd do the math and realize how much time X person spent posting photos of her kids and wonder how she had time to ever put down the phone and actually spend time with the kids in the photos, and that was just obnoxious of me...)
The point is to just turn off the social media IF it makes you feel bad or otherwise wastes your time.
So true. I think we buy about two rolls a year if that - strictly for pet messes, etc. Instead, I bought a pack of 12 cheap dish cloths that we use and wash over and over. I also save the unused napkins from work functions that would otherwise be thrown away. Amazes me when I see people buying those gigantic 12 paks of paper towels at the store.
I do buy the gigantic 12 pack but with a coupon. I have a husband who insists on using paper towels - I don't. that 12 pack usually lasts a year and it's cheaper per unit when combined with coupon and sale. Same thing with toilet paper. A certain brand he insists on but it does last longer than the cheaper off brands. If I lived alone I'd probably use another option.
Oh, and a second suggestion: turn off whatever social media you are using to see the "posts" that you described of other people's homes and vacations. I used to use facebook and it was a time suck for me. Or else I'd start to do the math and wonder how X person could afford Y thing, and it was really none of my business. (Or I'd do the math and realize how much time X person spent posting photos of her kids and wonder how she had time to ever put down the phone and actually spend time with the kids in the photos, and that was just obnoxious of me...)
The point is to just turn off the social media IF it makes you feel bad or otherwise wastes your time.
So agree with this. I'm going to be turning off the internet at home along with the house phone in late August. If I don't see it (other's expensive trips, other's new items, etc) I don't want it.
Hi corkym! You are really taking the right steps. There have been lots of great suggestions here. I wanted to point out something I didn't see addressed already. You said:
My suggestion is to increase your income by re-negotiating with your company. Tell them that you are going to raise your rate or switch to an hourly fee (still as a contractor). If you were working for them for 14 years and you do good work, then they may find it easier to keep you rather than replace you. They know that they are getting too good a deal--not only are they paying less for your services than they were before, but they also are saving on the brick and mortar office you used to use. So you can tell them that you are adjusting your rates as of July 1. If that doesn't work for them, then you finish your last report and find that Walmart greeter job or other local job.
They obviously like your work or they would not have agreed to the distance work in the first place. Know your value to them. If you provide value, then you have the right to charge for it. Be assertive, not sad-sack about it. Easier said than done. But practice the conversation with your husband or son. Or by yourself. But you can do this! Good luck.
Great suggestion!
Sweetana3: Your mom sounds amazing. As they get older it is harder to do new things. My mom is 89 and still delivers newspapers to all her neighbors in her senior citizen apt. and still volunteers different places. I need her spunk.
Pinkeytoe and Float On: I had a terrible time when I ran out of paper towels and no way to get to the store. I thought it was something that every person had to have to survive. I can relate to your husband totally Float On. I still love paper towels, but I have learned to only use them sparingly now for immediate gross cleanups.
TVRodriguez: Omgosh, is your name Tanner. That is almost word for word what my son Tanner has been saying to me for quite some time now. I know you are both completely right. I actually am trying to get all my ducks in a row as far as work so I can negotiate with them in a month or two. You are a definite confirmation of that. And social media....HAH! Right again. Facebook....not good in some people's cases. I have already closed it down twice but my addiction brings me back. You are so on target there. I always make the excuse, "but I need to see my friend's and relative's photos and what is going on in their lives. One way that has helped is I started a new page and kept a very small friend's list so it is easier to monitor. I need to only be on it for maybe 20 minutes at the most a day, instead of chatting back and forth with different people.
Again, everyone, incredible advice here. You are all such a help and such encouragement. I needed a good swift kick in the butt.
iris lilies
6-9-15, 12:06pm
That's what I use paper towels for, gross pet messes.
for most pet messes we use old towels. But then, it's easy if younare ready access to a washing machine.
awakenedsoul
6-9-15, 6:23pm
I LOVE Dave Ramsey's podcast. I listen to it in the car all the time. I love his no-nonsense approach. He makes me laugh, even when I see myself in some of those hapless stories.
His formulas really work. I was surprised at how quickly I got out of debt when I applied his methods, and filled in the worksheets. I listen to him when I'm cooking or cleaning my house.
Gardenarian
6-9-15, 7:48pm
Hi Corkym - just want to say that you must be terrific parents to have such a great son, and bringing up your kids well is the most important investment anyone can make.
Thanks so much for the kind words Gardenarian. We would like to take credit, but my husband and I just kind of bumbled along doing what we could with what little we knew. The only thing we know is we love him with a love we didn't know existed, just like every parent does. It was God's complete mercy on us that he turned out so well.
Its funny, the older I get the more I realize I don't know much of anything. I thought I had all the answers in my 20's and 30's and each decade that went by I realized I knew less and less.
TVRodriguez
6-10-15, 10:16am
I actually am trying to get all my ducks in a row as far as work so I can negotiate with them in a month or two. You are a definite confirmation of that.
Great! It's hard to think of these things on our own sometimes, and it's hard to realize our own worth, especially hard (sometimes) for women. I'll be honest and say that I've never actually been able to ask for a raise myself! I have had to raise my hourly rates in the past (and am due to do it again), and I cringe just thinking about it. But then if I compare myself and my work to others who do what I do (and not as well as I do it) and see that they are charging more, I think, well, my clients are not just going to say to me, 'you know, you do great work--I'd like to pay you more.' Hahaha. As an employer myself now, I recently gave my assistant a raise--and if she had asked for one, I would have given it to her earlier. Choose a good moment--right after handing in a particularly tough and good report that you completed in record time, for example. When the boss is not in a bad mood. Make your case for yourself. No one is going to do it for you.
And social media....HAH! Right again. Facebook....not good in some people's cases. I have already closed it down twice but my addiction brings me back. You are so on target there. I always make the excuse, "but I need to see my friend's and relative's photos and what is going on in their lives. One way that has helped is I started a new page and kept a very small friend's list so it is easier to monitor. I need to only be on it for maybe 20 minutes at the most a day, instead of chatting back and forth with different people.
When you move thousands of miles away from home, as you did, social media can be a wonderful way to keep connections. I say that I got off facebook, but I still have a page, and I do visit occasionally (once every two months, maybe). But that's not to say that I don't use any social media. I use another app (whatsapp) where my family has a group chat going, and I regularly use it to send photos of my kids and just chit chat with my siblings and nephews (the ones old enough to have phones). I found that was enough for me to keep up connections via social media--they are all 1300 miles away. I also use the phone a lot for calls! A half hour phone call with a friend can be a balm to the soul when you're miles and miles away from your old home. It sounds like you've managed to do something similar with facebook by limiting your friend list and limiting the time you spend there. Funny how much easier it is to spend less time when you have fewer people on your feed!
Keep on trucking. You're doing fine.
Its kind of like you got inside my head TVRodriguez and were going through all the file cabinets. Did you find a lot of the drawers empty....lol. Yes, what you said about the hard reports is exactly what I need to be documenting so I can have a good case. My 3 bosses are not very accommodating and have been known to fire people just because they offer suggestions. They are as a group pretty intimidating but I will not sit like a sniveling victim weeping in the corner anymore.....hear me growl or roar or however the song goes. If worse comes to worse they will fire me and I will buy a bicycle (2nd hand of course) and ride myself over to Walmart and pick up an application. First I have to learn how not to fall off the bike. I am not very coordinated. Thank you for the go get 'em pep talk. You have no idea how much I needed that. My son will be thrilled.
flowerseverywhere
6-10-15, 7:19pm
His formulas really work. I was surprised at how quickly I got out of debt when I applied his methods, and filled in the worksheets. I listen to him when I'm cooking or cleaning my house.
i loved this post. You did something about you situation. Congratulations.
awakenedsoul
6-10-15, 8:54pm
i loved this post. You did something about you situation. Congratulations.
Thank you. It amazed me, because I had been struggling to pay back my debt for 15 years. It just gave me a razor sharp focus. I haven't gone into debt since...it's been three years. No more loans for me!
You must feel like you have been released from prison. What an achievement and what freedom you must feel now. You did an incredible thing! People like you are the inspiration for people like me.
flowerseverywhere
6-11-15, 5:01am
You must feel like you have been released from prison. What an achievement and what freedom you must feel now. You did an incredible thing! People like you are the inspiration for people like me.
i think there are some posters here that you will find great inspiration from and I know I tend to seek out their posts. Awakened, I hope I am not embarrassing you but I see a common thread in the things you post for example of being positive, making the best of what you have and generally being joyful. Those are the types I people I want around me in real life and online. I want to be more like them. I also avoid those who always have a negative thing to say or try to make everything about themselves and how unhappy they are and how they are victims of society. I ignore their posts or in real life just nod and get away as soon as I can.
You can find a lot of positivity and great suggestions, even if you have no intention of doing them in the frugal posts. You know, it is OK to car share or be car free. It is ok to walk or ride a bike. It is OK to cook from scratch and grow your own food. You can make all these activities fun if you decide you want to.
My relatives and some friends put me down for being so cheap in their eyes. We bucked the new car, fancy decorations, eating out, closets crammed full mentality and slowly and steadily built a debt free life. One of the keys is finding joy in a simple home cooked meal, reading a library book or trying to identify your local birds for example. Turning off TV really helps.
So find the joy in your life. Treat others the way you would like to be treated. Make your living space clean and neat so you feel good about it. Every day dwell on the positive and take a tiny step forward every day. Before you know it those steps will add up to a quarter mile, then a mile, then a marathon. But you have to take those first baby steps if you want to move forward.
I totally agree flowerseverywhere. I know just from reading everyone's experiences and suggestions that I feel much better about myself now. Like there is hope. When you get in your 60's and you still are in a hole debt wise things can start looking a little bleak. You realize there isn't always going to be "tomorrow" to change things. The time is getting shorter. Your body parts are starting to creak and wear out, the energy isn't there, that dream of being a trapeze artist seems a little far fetched now and having a goal such as reading War and Peace doesn't seem as exciting anymore. All of you have shown me you can make positive changes even in your 60's and can live a happy life looking forward to tomorrow instead of dreading it. And I thank you all for that.
Make your living space clean and neat so you feel good about it.
^ This is really resonating with me right now. There is a ton of good info in your post and I don't think anyone should miss reading the whole thing - but these words...
I lost my job a month ago and for now (maybe forever) I will not be seeking another job. We own our home and are completely debt free, and having me retire has been a dream but I would not have made the choice to quit. Having my employer fold jump started the next phase of our lives. I am astonished by how much joy and satisfaction comes from a neat and clean surroundings. I have spent literally hours each day cleaning and culling. It's something tangible that provides immediate gratification. As a former full time worker, I know that at the end of the day I felt I deserved to rest / watch tv / internet surf and just blew so many hours a week. Now that my "full time job" is housekeeper, I go online LESS and turn off the tv all the time.
I have always been inspired by this simple living blog written by an Australian woman in her 60s:
http://down---to---earth.blogspot.com/
I'm 52, and I've already started feeling that "pinch of time" - I haven't had a full time job in a long time, so I've had lots of space to notice and contemplate growing older. What I'm discovering is that cleaning out the clutter in my mind is very enjoyable! I recently re-evaluated my bucket list and realized I honestly don't Ever want to jump off a tall structure or out of an airplane. Goodbye bungee jump. Goodbye Antarctica. Goodbye Kib, PhD. And Goodbye War and Peace. :cool:
Having a conception of a limited time frame actually feels good to me, it makes me fierce about embracing what's left and making it what I want it to be, and it lifts the burden of the things I never really cared about in the first place.
Kib: "Having a conception of a limited time frame actually feels good to me, it makes me fierce about embracing what's left and making it what I want it to be, and it lifts the burden of the things I never really cared about in the first place." YES! YES! YES! Absolutely 110% agree.
Pinkytoe: This looks like a great blog, in fact I think my daughter in law will really love it too. Thanks!
Imerullo: Totally agree with the decluttering also. It is so freeing to let go of things that just take up space and are useless. I really like kib's idea of decluttering the mind also. That really hit a nerve with me. I have soooo much garbage in my mind and I need to start the process of cleaning out the filing cabinets in it. Some drawers are spilling over and have stuff that has been stashed away in them for over 30 yrs.
I have let my life get so out of control and was about to go down for the third time. Thanks all of you for throwing me a life preserver. I seriously am feeling so much better and excited about implementing all these ideas.
awakenedsoul
6-11-15, 5:26pm
You must feel like you have been released from prison. What an achievement and what freedom you must feel now. You did an incredible thing! People like you are the inspiration for people like me.
Thank you corkym. I really think it was the Dave Ramsey worksheets that turned things around for me. I also got a side job on a farm selling produce. That extra $200.00 a week made a huge difference! They also gave me $15.00 a week of free fruits and vegetables.
Becoming debt free was a great feeling...like a vortex of energy. I had paid of my cc debt once before, though, and I racked it up again. The first time I put every cent I could towards the my cc debt when I was a Rockette. I paid off the entire amount, but that meant that I didn't save any money. So, when the Christmas show was over, I was debt free, but out of work. After getting out of debt the second time, I decided that car loans and credit card would no longer be an option. Also, I made having an emergency fund my top priority. This was a huge shift.
flowerseverywhere, Thank you for your kind words. This is a totally different lifestyle that I lead, but I don't have the stress or drama. I live in a low income area, so I see that I have much more than most people. I have what really matters. My needs have changed with age. I get excited about making pizza, knitting clothes, reading, enjoying my $15.00 a month gym membership, and baking cookies. I am more appreciative of the small things. Growing food, sitting on my porch watching the hummingbirds, and taking care of my dogs gives me pleasure.
I really enjoyed your post. I don't watch television, either. (Nothing against TV, it's just saving me money, and better for my mental state.) So true about making your living space clean and neat. Same with the yard! That alone keeps me very busy!
Awakenedsoul: "After getting out of debt the second time, I decided that car loans and credit card would no longer be an option. Also, I made having an emergency fund my top priority. This was a huge shift. " I love the profile name you have chosen. Awakened Soul. I so agree with you, my husband and I are now making a "huge shift" too. You sound so peaceful and so in control of your life. I want that so much too and I see it is now very possible.
awakenedsoul
6-12-15, 10:45am
Thanks corkym. No being worried about paying back debt has been a huge relief. Cutting my expenses made a huge difference. I regularly remind myself of the importance of distinguishing between wants and needs, spending less than I earn, etc. A lot of what we do boils down to habits. I realized it's just as easy to create a good habit as it is to stay stuck in a bad habit.
Tussiemussies
6-12-15, 4:31pm
So true awakened soul.....
Corkym, my husband is sixty now and I will just be turning fifty-four. I cannot work, but my husband makes a fantastic salary as an artist. He has a side business that he will continue through retirement because he loves it and we need the money for taxes p, which are 6,000 per year right now. We never want to leave our home, so we feel it can be done...is there any side business that you and your husband can created at something that you love? It could be just a little now and you could grow it as you retire or semi-retire. My mother is semi retired from being a legal assistant and she just loves her job,with her personality and living alone, I just couldn't imagine her not doing it...what types of talents do you and you husband have?
Hi Tussiemussies - Unfortunately, neither of us has any special talents. Our son and his wife are doing ebay as a little side business. They do extremely well with it and set my husband up in his own ebay store. I hope we get to a point where we can expand it more. They make quite a bit of money by going to garage sales and reselling the items. My husband does o.k., but we could do better once I start helping I think. It will double the time spent on it. I've been auditing home inspections for 14 yrs so that is what I am mainly experienced doing. Your husband must be incredible if he is making a great salary as an artist. That is so wonderful. So many artists struggle, so he must be really something!
African proverb:
The best time to plant a tree is a hundred years ago.
The second best time to plant a tree is today.
Tussiemussies
6-12-15, 11:13pm
Hi cork,
Ebay is a great idea! Although they seem much stricter now than they did when I was younger and selling on there. i guess it makes it a safer interaction for everyone. That will be so great when you start helping out. If you are going to use the post office and have a PC not a Mac, you can set up with the post office a way for you to have a scale at home, and print out your stamp for the box or envelope from home.
My husband is very good at what he does and has a licensing agent that does the legwork of finding clients for him and then he has two clients on his own. He also works at a full time job where they design bedding and kitchen towels for major stores.
What does auditing for home inspections entail? Never heard of that really before although we have bought three house during our marriage....you think I would know! LOL!
That is so great about your husband. I bet he loves his work. It would be so wonderful to be so creative and talented to make a living doing what you love.
Ebay has high fees but for us it has worked out pretty well with only a few glitches every now and then, just as in any area of life. He is able to bring in about 300 more a month and that helps to fill in the gaps. Our son and his wife have a real knack for finding the right items and pricing them so they make significantly more than my husband. And that is just a little side thing they do.
The company I work for contracts out to inspectors who go to the homes and inspects them. We have major insurance companies we service. Even high value homes for some celebrities. Unfortunately, I would say about 60% of the inspectors we have are to lazy and very rude or just aren't trained enough. So the "inhouse" people have to audit their inspections which means we basically start from scratch and try to do the whole thing from the photos they send us. It could be a 4,000 sq. ft. home and instead of diagramming it correctly they will just send us a square that is about 1,000 ft smaller than the actual home. That is just one example. The auditors have to diagram the whole house correctly with porches, decks, bay windows, etc, all outbuildings (that the inspector didn't include) and we have to fit it into the correct sq. ft., because they didn't do their job. The inspectors consistently leave off all the conditions, so we go through the photos and try to find everything and list them and label the photos and mark the correct condition on the rpt which there are over a hundred. Each insurance company has their own guidelines so we have to make sure we do it according to their specific instructions. The inspectors hardly ever give us good photos to work from, so we are trying to figure things out from a blurry, wrong angle perspective. There is a lot more involved but that is what we do. Sorry to go on and on, I get carried away when I start talking about this position. You should hear what others say. At least I am not using 4 letter words....hahaha
Interesting to hear about your job, Corky. Just this week, we were contacted by a company saying they needed to do an inspection for the insurance company we just switched to. Never had that happen before so good to hear an insider's point of view. Hope the objective is not to make our rate go up.
Pinkytoe - I don't know how it works from the insurance company's side about if they raise your rates or not. But I know our company has auditors to make sure we stay within the original replacement cost unless there has been significant changes. We are there to make sure the insurance company is made aware of any conditions on the house or property and then they make their adjustments accordingly. We have some inspectors where seriously if there was a volcano in the back yard and half of the house was washed away in ashes and fire they wouldn't note it. From the photos the auditors would condition it. As long as the inspector provided a photo of the yard showing the ashes and fire...lol. I actually had a photo where there was a photo of a cat and the inspector noted the insured had a dog. I also had one where one of our inhouse people noted there was no interview and yet I could see there was a person in the photo. I asked how did they know there was no interview and he said you can tell from the picture he doesn't speak English. WHAAAAAATTTTT?????!!!! You have got to be kidding me. But our company is clamping down on idiotic people like this thankfully. It is a good thing there are auditors.
Also, its good Pinkytoe that the insurance company notified you. A lot of the companies don't and the inspector just shows up without being expected.
Tussiemussies
6-13-15, 2:03pm
Wow cork, what an issue to have to work with and doing double work on your part to make sure it is correct. Who hiires at your company? What a shame,,,
That is great that your DH can bring in extra cash...maybe when you start working with him your son and his wife can give you tips of what sells.....
Tussiemussies - That was my fault and one of my many poor choices I made. I should never have stayed in that job situation for so many years and when I took a step down financially by becoming a contractor, I shot myself in the foot with bullets I couldn't afford. At the time I thought I was making logical steps. And now I am smacking my head and saying "what were you using for brains, turnips?" But no time like the present to make a change since yesterday is gone with the wind.
My poor son and his wife keep throwing dear old mom and dad life preservers. We still haven't figured out we are supposed to kick our feet while holding on to the life preservers apparently. If it wasn't for them my husband would never have been in Ebay. That has been a tremendous help. My son Tanner and his wife Holly always bring us box loads of things they pick up really cheap at garage sales for him to sell, so they are even helping us that way.
We have always said Tanner must have been left on the door step as a baby because he couldn't be genetically linked to us at all....lol.
ApatheticNoMore
6-13-15, 5:02pm
How many kids do you have? Just one? Or is there another failure kid(s) you don't like to talk about? :laff: Your son is obviously doing well.
Whether it made sense to stay at the job depends on if there were other job opportunities available at the time, if not then well, it makes perfect sense.
hahahaha ApatheticNoMore - Tanner actually on one birthday posted a picture of his twin sister "Little T" on facebook. He took his picture of when he was 5 and photoshopped pigtails and ribbons on it and put them side by side. He told "Little T" Happy Birthday and he was sorry mom and dad always kept her hidden away in the basement. I came back and said "we had too, look at what she looked like, we didn't want her scaring the neighborhood." Immediatly I started getting private messages "I didn't know Tanner had a twin sister. Where is she? Why don't you talk about her?" Tanner didn't help any matters when he then posted a grown up version of the two of them together. He put long hair and lipstick on her. I must say, Tanner is a very nice looking young man but he sure makes a heck of an ugly girl. He didn't transform nearly as well as Caitlyn Jenner did. Anyway - to answer your question, No - I knew my limitations and we only had one kid :)
Small baby steps made in the last week. 1) Paper plates are not essential when you are feeding your 4 cats. You can use real plates and wash them afterwards. That kind of goes along with the paper towel thing. Ca Ching.....every penny counts. 2) Made a list and stuck to it before I grocery shopped yesterday. Every thing we bought is accounted for and analyzed to see if we really needed it. Another Ca Ching. 3) Added 2 more rpts for work each day. That will add up quickly by the end of the month. 2 a day sounds more doable than 60 more a month.
These blogs and your past posts have kept me motivated and keep refreshing my poor mentality and worn out brain. Thank you :) I have been looking for the Dave Ramsey book. Haven't come across it yet, but it has to be in one of those boxes in the garage somewhere.
TVRodriguez
6-16-15, 11:17am
Its kind of like you got inside my head TVRodriguez and were going through all the file cabinets. Did you find a lot of the drawers empty....lol. Yes, what you said about the hard reports is exactly what I need to be documenting so I can have a good case. My 3 bosses are not very accommodating and have been known to fire people just because they offer suggestions. They are as a group pretty intimidating but I will not sit like a sniveling victim weeping in the corner anymore.....hear me growl or roar or however the song goes. If worse comes to worse they will fire me and I will buy a bicycle (2nd hand of course) and ride myself over to Walmart and pick up an application. First I have to learn how not to fall off the bike. I am not very coordinated. Thank you for the go get 'em pep talk. You have no idea how much I needed that. My son will be thrilled.
After reading your other post below in this thread describing your work, it sure sounds like you are doing a LOT to earn your $$/report! As a suggestion, you might want to keep a file with the "raw" report that you receive and the "finished" report right behind it for your presentation to your bosses, maybe with a spreadsheet or chart of the time you spent fixing it and what you did.
I'm a lawyer, so a time sheet is what I do all the time for clients. They get their bill and see that I spent 12 minutes on a call (0.2 hours) or that I spent 45 minutes doing research on a matter (0.8 hours), or whatever. It makes them realize that I'm not just gouging them for nothing--they can see exactly what I've been spending time doing for them to advance the matter. You may consider using your old salary as a base to determine your hourly rate (divide your annual salary by 2000--that's full time work of 40 hours/week for 50 weeks--assuming 10 days of not working in a year) and billing them hourly instead of per report. That way they pay you less if they get better inspectors that provide better "raw" reports.
TVRodriguez
6-16-15, 11:24am
Oh, and think positive!! As inspiration, here is my newest favorite poem:
There is freedom waiting for you
On the breezes of the sky,
And you ask, 'What if I fall?'
Oh but my darling,
what if you fly?
-e.h.
TVRodriguez - No wonder you are a lawyer. You have everything so well thought out and are very methodical about your system of keeping time. Exactly what I need to do. I have just started keeping a record of the reports, but your way is more detailed and they can't find any loose ends with your system. Thank you so much, I will be incorporating your ideas. This could make a very big difference. They are taking advantage of me in a very big way. If I told you what I make you would choke, I always have said they pay me with the change in their pockets. I am very embarrassed about it. I wish I hadn't waited so long to make a stand. They have almost phased out all the older employees and hired younger ones. I am pretty sure it has to do with the high cost of insurance they are having to pay on the older ones. Because I am a contractor they want to keep me, because they aren't out anything. Anyway-your ideas are great, I can't thank you enough and everyone for all the invaluable advice being given me.
And your favorite poem? That is funny, because I just posted it on my facebook page a few days ago before I even saw this :) I really like it.
Teacher Terry
6-16-15, 9:13pm
I laughed outloud about the twin story:))
Thanks Teacher Terry :) I'm glad you laughed, that makes me feel better. I wasn't sure if I should post it and was going to delete it afterwards, but I couldn't figure out how to delete it. Sometimes my family's humor is kind of off the wall and only funny to our dysfunctional minds. My filter doesn't always work properly.
Teacher Terry
6-17-15, 10:23am
I so love a good sense of humor. Glad you could not delete!
Mr Money Mustache is great.
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/
Those people are fierce about FIRE - financially independent retire early
If you work when the local food bank is open, ask someone who goes to get food for you. Find out who runs the FB and phone her/him. Explain your situation and ask if anyone he knows can help out. They give out tons of low-nutrition starches (pasta, white rice, etc) so mention you don't eat those.
Go to the huge thrift shop once a month at least. Clothes last a long time but shoes don't. They can be hard to find in the right size, hence the visits. My current sheets are Ralph Lauren, heavy cotton queen size. Best quality sheets I've ever owned - for $20 the set. When your slow cooker dies, there's almost always a few there.
I pay rent & utilities by autowithdraw and check. I pay for everything else with cash. Makes spending money much more real. I used to keep every receipt in a nice basket and look at monthly totals frequently. Now I know it all in my head.
I buy food every few days. Produce is fresher and there's almost no waste at my home. If you walk to the market, one of those wire baskets on wheels is terrific.
The library is terrific. You can go to the website and reserve DVDs, books, and other materials online. You can search by name, actor name, etc. So what that we have to wait for Downton Abbey? Plus I love watching a season in one week. It's like they are living nearby.
My little town has an email bulletin board. When people get a new TV, they frequently want to give the old one away and post that. Usually a small donation to the charity that runs the service is required. You can request things, too. You could also announce a part time service you want to provide for extra income, like dog sitting.
Read through the years of great tips on this site in the Frugal section. Because of those posts, I only use one tablespoon laundry soap for each load, 1/2tsp dish soap in the dishwasher, vinegar as spot reducer in the dishwasher, and tons more. It all adds up :-D
Good luck!
Getting expenses down can be a fun game. Look at everything you buy/rent. Can I add this to the "no more" list? I decided I would rather put $60 a month into savings than watch cable TV.
I'm moving soon to a city and can't wait to get rid of the car. I hate city driving and will save lots of $ as new city has fantastic public transportation.
Do allow yourself some treats. It's like dieting - if I'm too strict, I'm likely to binge.
Teacher Terry
6-25-15, 4:06pm
So now the Mr. MM troll has moved onto this site. Ugh!
I'm a fan of Dave Ramsay's baby steps. Most of his books are available at the library.
That's a good idea Florence. I was upset because I used to have some Dave Ramsey books but apparently I gave them away. I looked in the garage and can't find them. I am going to have to check the library. I should have did that sooner.
Profnot: We've been very fortunate in that we haven't needed to go to the food pantry yet. We have been being more diligent about what we buy though and sticking to a list. No more Taco Bell. I have been cooking alot more. My husband told me the other day "Who knew you could cook?" haha.....40 yrs and I kept him in the dark. I hate to cook but since we haven't had a car I have had to get my act together and be more aware. So it has been a blessing. Except I still hate to cook :( Thank you for all your great ideas :) You're right it is like a fun game.
A good frugal living site is http://ctonabudget.blogspot.com.
Thank you Florence ;) Looks like another great site!
Still learning and applying all these great tips to my undisciplined life. Even though we never bought luxury items or went to expensive restaurants or took vacations (we still haven't had a honeymoon and we have been married 40 yrs), it is totally amazing all all the money leaks there are just through an undisciplined lifestyle. Like the paper towels and the cat sanctuary in our back yard or even just eating off the dollar menu at Taco Bell and McDonalds. We have been without a car for a while now and that has forced us to sit down and make grocery lists and stick to them or we do without til the next time we borrow a car. Who knew I could bake cookies instead of buying chips ahoy (my addiction) all the time. We have put more reasonable limits on our gift giving too. Everyone we know has everything they want anyways and aren't expecting expensive gifts. It was because we were trying to build up our own self worth in front of their eyes because we are the poor relations....sigh. Anyway....still plodding on and we will get there slowly but surely. Just wish I had posted this thread a few yrs back so I could have had all these pointers back then. Thanks again everyone and hope everyone had a safe and great 4th of July :)
Rachel: I think I missed this the first time, I was just rereading everything and came across it. What an incredible quote:
African proverb:
The best time to plant a tree is a hundred years ago.
The second best time to plant a tree is today.
i love this......
You came to the right place for support and guidance on how to live frugally but well. Remember that new habits take a while to acquire. I believe that studies show it takes 8 weeks for a new routine to be comfortable. While it is admirable the work you are doing with stray cats, can the local shelter pitch in somehow? There are grants and support for cat shelters and non-profits that care for strays. I recently took in a stray and found out the hard way that although a shelter may offer a spay/neuter care program, getting them to honor it is quite another thing. I ended up taking the cat to a local vet with whom I quietly negotiated a lower rate of service. I save $150 towards necessary cat care. Can you do something with that?
The best way to learn to shop and be frugal might be borrowing Consumer Reports Magazine from the town library. I use my library for videos, music and books. I used to go there to be on line. When I bought my PC, I used to go for the free wifi. Public libraries are excellent resources for folks. Plus, they may offer a book club. Reading and having a new low cost hobby might take your mind off money and home for an hour or so. I never miss the book club meetings and find it a great balancer to hear what others think on the book and other topics from around town. Oh yes, they also offer museum and park passes. Another great money saver and way to enjoy the arts and outdoor spaces.
I live alone so it is only my problem if money is misspent. It is harder trying to get two people to change spending or behavior habits.
I wonder if your income is low, did you call the local utility and ask for the lower income rates? They exist but you have to ask. Do you heat with oil? Now is the time to seek support for home heating assistance. You may qualify for one tank. That can be $500+ big savings and a warm house. Drop the iPhone and get a utility phone only. I used to have a Motorola pay as you go and it worked great for me. I bought minutes when I needed them and learned to be prudent about all phone calls. I forget the name of the company, but it's a great consumer buy and works. It even takes pictures.
Don't compare yourself to the neighbors. You'd be surprised what goes on behind closed doors. And, never forget some people inherit money too. Or, inherit property of some kind. Everybody acquires money in different ways.
Can you change jobs or go back to a salary position? Stop thinking about your past mistakes and do something to improve the present.
Cypress - Thanks for your comments. Yes, we have already taken care of the feral and stray cats problem. It took us quite a few yrs to figure out we couldn't afford to do that anymore. We have taken care of several of them and a constant stream of kittens from the ferals we were unable to trap to get neutered/spayed. They have all been relocated to a wonderful feral cat sanctuary. Everyone has given wonderful advice on this thread and I am already implementing different ideas and they are working :) We also, use a pay as you go phone. We very rarely have to use it, so we are lucky. We don't have cable, netflix, direct tv or anything like that. Our main problem has been low income and tracking it, we never really spent a lot of money.
Karma - Yes, you are right about thinking about past mistakes, I have plenty of future to make new ones. I don't need to keep dragging along the old ones. We are being pretty diligent about changing things for the better. I will eventually go back to being an employee, but right now we have to get a car first and we aren't on a bus line. We are saving towards getting transportation. Being in Houston there is quite a distance to travel, usually by freeway for jobs. At least that is how I used to get to my different jobs was by freeway. I am a contractor out of my home right now.
ApatheticNoMore
7-21-15, 12:06pm
Sometimes there are things worth taking a loan for, like for a car if it means you would immediately be back to being an employee and this would help a lot financially. Do you have the down payment for it? I knew someone who kept trying to save up for a cheap used car and some major expense would come up and it wouldn't happen (this wasn't actually due to lack of discipline, yea if they had a decent salary it would be, but they didn't they were making close to minimum wage here where the cost of living isn't low despite roommates etc.). And I have to wonder, like how many years the not having a normal life due to not having a car would go on. I respect the "no car" thing, they are stupid horrible pollution machines, it's just .... life activities were severely curtailed for it.
You are absolutely right ApatheticNoMore. A normal life is curtailed due to not having a car. At least for us it is. Living in an area where there is a large distance to get anywhere it is very important, boy have we found that out. We never realized how much we took having a car for granted. We have always had one until last Nov. We aren't in a position financially to be able to take out a loan and make payments but if we were I definitely would look into it. It has been good in some ways. It has forced us to sit down and plan everything out to the last detail for the times we are able to borrow one. It is making us be very careful when we shop for groceries. Looking back we did a lot of unthinking careless driving. If I ran out of something I would just hop in the car and go to the store. When we get one again we will be very careful and not so haphazard about using it. Now I see it is possible to get through the evening without having to have ice cream if there is none in the freezer.
Just a quick update, so excited. My husband was figuring out how to pay the bills for this month, we are always behind a month in the elec., phone/internet, gas and water. We actually are current and zero balance on all but one now. That never happens. And we just found out we only have one month left on another large bill we have been paying on forever. We were shocked, so we celebrated and went out and bought a big screen t.v - zero down and no payments for 6 mos.......hahaha.....just kidding. Thanks for all your advice and help everyone! It is working. Sad to be in our 60's and just turning on the lightbulb. I guess we couldn't afford it before. :idea: We are even planning a vacation for next year, we have never taken one before. It will only be to go to a movie and to Fuddruckers, but to us that is a big deal :) I have already included it in our monthly budget. Life is starting to seem less hopeless.....
rosarugosa
8-15-15, 12:48pm
Good for you, Corky! You had me for a minute with the TV - I was going "Oh no!" I think a budget will make all the difference for you; I don't know how anyone lives without one.
Congratulations Corkym on the reducing of all debt and realizing how it happened. You had me with the TV, too. Glad you can laugh!
Congrats on getting caught up on most of your bills, that has got to feel great.
Very funny too. You had me for a second there.
Thanks Everyone!:thankyou: Love hearing everyone's inputs and encouragement.
I hope it's o.k. to vent, I feel like a jerk to be saying any of this but it is really getting under my skin and I feel all of you are pretty non judgemental. Thanks to everyone's input on here even though we have had some unexpected medical bills (we are 61 now, so I guess that will keep happening) we have only fallen a little behind. I hate to think what would have happened if we hadn't started watching our money and budgeting, etc. When I had my heart attack I assumed it was from eating junk food and not enough vegetables. But the drs. and nurses told me it was more than likely from stress. I had never told them any stories about my life so I have no idea where they came up with that. I had mentioned that to a family member who had a major heart attack and his wife looked at me and said "so you are stressed?" She has a housecleaner, a gardener, doesn't have to work, travels constantly, has a husband that treats her like a queen, lives in a completely paid for two story gorgeous home they are constantly redecorating, paid for brand new vehicles, her mom died leaving her $150,000 on top of all that. Visits us once a week while telling about their latest cruises, expensive jewelry she wears and on and on. I usually take it in my stride but this time she pushed the wrong button I guess because I kind of exploded, well maybe not explode, I am too passive for that, but I told her what I thought and I don't usually do that. I am more prone to biting my tongue....and it hurts. I said "well, considering my husband was on dialysis for 9 yrs and I don't know how many times we were in the hospital thinking he was going to die, we lost our business, we had to sell our house, the IRS was after us because we couldn't keep up with our business taxes after he got sick, I never knew if we would be able to pay our elec. bill while trying to raise our son in a normal environment, "and so on an so forth. I couldn't believe I was being that rude. And then she just sat there and looked at me, blinked and said "oh" and went on as if I hadn't said anything. She really DID NOT GET IT. Her husband is not like her. He is very kind and while he does like to tell about their latest adventures he isn't doing it in a bragging way. I always feel like I have to batten down the hatches on my mouth before they come over, plus I am always on my hands and knees scrubbing everything in sight before they come, because I know she is looking at every thing critically. But I feel so guilty now for saying all of that to her. Why would I bother, what does it matter what she thinks. It just takes me back to the beginning of this thread whenever I see them "starting over at 61 and where we messed up big time." Sorry for the rambling and the pity party, I know that is not constructive. Just feeling a little "less than" everyone today. I know that's wrong, but I guess sometimes my emotions start coming out. Not a good thing to let take over. Thank you for your listening ears.
Williamsmith
8-30-15, 8:07am
corkym, I don't presume to know anything other than what you have provided in these posts. I'll just write a response based on that. It is hard to live in a culture that is based so heavily on consuming and self advancement. Success is measured by how many things you can get your hands on. Can you imagine telling other people you are happier not to be burdened with all those things. They would think you are nuts.
The way you are feeling is just the way the sellers of all this stuff want you to feel. It makes them feel so successful to be able to point to you and all your unhappiness as proof that more stuff makes one happy. What a crock. The truth is, it's not the stuff that makes them happy......it is the fact that they have it and people like you don't. You see the selfishness in that. They are not happy inside. They are just very shallow in their social abilities.
Are their people who are wealthy and also truly happy. Absolutely. But not because of all the stuff. Just like their are happy people who are poor and only have their needs met each day.
You had a bad break with health concerns. In this country that is enough to sidetrack any income level. It is a challenge we need to face about the health care system. I don't see that you did anything wrong...and it seems you coped admirably under the circumstances. My guess is those that you know who are so rich with stuff would have fallen apart years ago. "Don't substitute having for being."
Thank you for reminding me of that Williamsmith! "Don't substitute having for being." That is a great saying. My husband and I did make some bad choices along the way and we are very blessed when we compare ourselves to others that have less than us or have terminal illnesses. I somehow get very shallow and discontent when around people like this family member. You are right though, I know she can't be happy inside. Her happiness is coming from her external possessions. I always loved this story and I need to read it each day.
Author unknown. "One day a very rich man took his son on a trip to
the village to let him know what poverty is. They spent a few days with poor family of the
village to have a feel of their life. On the way back to home, the man asked his son,
“How was the trip to the village?” “It was great experience Dad”. “So, now you know how the poor live?” the father
asked. “Oh yes” said the son. “So, what did you learn from the trip?” asked the
father.
The son answered: “I saw that we have one dog
and they had 2. We have imported lights in our lawn and they have
the stars at night. We have a small pool that reaches to the middle of
our garden and they have an endless pond. Our patio reaches to the front yard and they have
the whole horizon. We have a small piece of land to live on and they
have fields that go beyond our sight. We have servants who serve us, but they serve
others. We buy our food, but they grow theirs. We have walls around our property to protect us,
they have friends to protect them.” The boy’s father was speechless. Then his son added, “Thanks, Dad, for showing me
how poor we are.”"
Teacher Terry
8-30-15, 12:28pm
HI, I have some good friends that also lost a paid for home & everything else due to multiple bouts of cancer for both of them even with health insurance. It really sucks! It sounds like a weekly visit from these people are too much. I would start being busy & cut back the visits gradually. Maybe at first once every 2 weeks & then down to 1x/month. You feel the need to have a spotless house on top of everything else & this is too much with working etc at your age. I am the same age as you. Things don't make us happy but it is normal to be somewhat envious when you have to budget so tightly & don't get to vacation, etc. Give yourself a hug from me & please think about having less contact. You can be vaguely busy without giving specific reasons.
You know, some people like to hear the reasons for other people's illness so they can reassure themselves they won't share the same fate. "You have lung cancer!? That's terrible! Did You Smoke?" WTF. And if the answer is ten cigarettes in high school, they're still reassured, they have An Explanation, so your misfortune is obviously not something they have to worry about for themselves. So ... maybe you did this woman a favor by pointing out all the things she doesn't have to worry about! You set her mind at ease. ;)
I think the comparative explanation is so true. Like it or not, we are all comparing ourselves to others to gauge our worthiness in this society. I can feel smug about not being homeless since I am not homeless and on up the ladder. The key must be in finding happiness, gratefulness and joy for what is; I think that is at the heart of simple living. Just yesterday, I told dh one of the benefits of getting older is that you no longer feel compelled to tolerate bs situations anymore.
Maybe this seems weird, but I would be grateful that you have "real" things to potentially be stressed about.
My DDIL came over today and was talking about her sister who said she was "So stressed!" because she was painting her house and she couldn't decide what color to paint it, and then she had to ask the painter to paint one wall one color and the other the other color, and it was all so STRESSFUL!" to which my DS said, "First World problems!"
I also remember when my mother and I were talking to a neighbor who just found out that her daughter had started smoking and that just rocked her world. My mother, who had just divorced her second husband because of alcoholism and who had almost lost her house and had to struggle to find money to feed us 4 kids every day kind of snickered--maybe not the best response, but the point is, suffering/stress is relative. I can't remember which psychologist said it, but he said that suffering is like a gas that fills up a room. It's not as if there are criteria for a little ball of suffering in one corner or a bigger ball in another. To the person in the room, it's quantitatively the same (although maybe not qualitatively).
That helps me feel compassion for people whose stress is caused by a broken fingernail.
ETA: I looked it up, and the gas analogy is by Viktor Frankl (Man's Search for Meaning):
“To draw an analogy: a man's suffering is similar to the behavior of a gas. If a certain quantity of gas is pumped into an empty chamber, it will fill the chamber completely and evenly, no matter how big the chamber. Thus suffering completely fills the human soul and conscious mind, no matter whether the suffering is great or little. Therefore the "size" of human suffering is absolutely relative.”
rosarugosa
8-30-15, 4:35pm
Catherine: I love that Frankl analogy and I'm sure it will help me be more patient with others. Thanks for sharing.
So very interesting and helping me to rethink my (I admit it) bitterness. The comparative comments are so very true. I am sure everything about me and my house must make her feel very good about herself. She is the picture of perfection and me not so much. Her house could be featured in a holiday magazine at Christmas and in my house a halloween scarecrow is still up and leaning on the Charlie Brown Christmas tree. I like that gas analogy too. That is also so very true. I haven't looked at it that way before. Suffering and pain is all relative. Teacher Terry we actually have cut down their visits by moving. They used to come over about 4 times a week....gasp....lol. We moved further away so we are down to 1 time a week, hooray. I am going to approach their visits with a different mindset. I need to look at it as I am doing her a service by making her feel so good about herself by comparing herself to me. As far as the gas analogy and the suffering being all relative, well she is the relative and I am suffering....hahaha. I have a lot of interior work to do on myself and need to learn to be content with my inadequacies and accept them. Thanks so much all of you. You always make me look at things from another perspective. I love that.
ApatheticNoMore
8-30-15, 5:07pm
I'd envy her too. Not so much the stuff, but the fact she doesn't have to work for any of it, or work at all (and of course if I were you I'd envy someone whose husband didn't need dialysis because that has to suck).
I think having your kids start to smoke is stressful. What it means in real life is a decent chance you will outlive them and live long enough to visit them in the cancer ward as well. That's what a smoking habit does to people, kills them young. Of course a drug habit will kill them much younger than that.
I think the comparative explanation is so true. Like it or not, we are all comparing ourselves to others to gauge our worthiness in this society. I can feel smug about not being homeless since I am not homeless and on up the ladder.
I don't think that really works for anything one really cares about. And I have tried, tried too hard. I mean if it's something one is more or less happy with anyway, you like your dwelling quite a lot but envy you haven't saved up enough for a new kitchen to improve it or whatever and your neighbor just got one then sure "yea but I could be homeless ....". But if it's something one has genuinely come to hate, one hates one's dwelling say (not my situation but say one thought living a block from the freeway wasn't a problem as hey it was a way to get in cheap, but it has driven one bonkers to hear traffic at all hours for instance, once comes home and thinks: ugh, I hate being here). Then I don't think saying "at least I'm not homeless" really works. Finding something you like better probably is the real solution.
awakenedsoul
8-30-15, 5:28pm
I taught yoga for thirty years, and the one thing I learned from my students is that everyone has pain and trauma in their life. We don't really know what it's like to be another person. For some reason they would all tell me their troubles.
I grew up in a family that had a beautiful home and plenty of money. People made a lot of assumptions that weren't true. When my friends would visit, some of them were very resentful, because my parents' house was so beautiful. When I was struggling financially, my father pointed out to me that I resented people with money. It was true. I changed my attitude, and started to attract money.
I think comparing is a negative way to spend time. It's just ego. Life is not fair. Our comparisons are surface, anyway. We never know the total story of what's going on with another person. Often they have all sorts of private, (sometimes desperate) challenges that we don't even see.
When I struggled with this, I finally decided that the only person's opinion that really mattered was my DH. I loved him and he loved me and most importantly I examined what he loved about me and decided to love that me as well.
It is so cruel to be hard on oneself. Corky, you are loveable and irreplaceable as you are. $$$ may make life easier but they don't change your value to yourself and those around you one bit. Another's $$$ and how they spend it don't change or reduce your value and loveability one bit.
I think comparing is a negative way to spend time. It's just ego. Life is not fair. Our comparisons are surface, anyway. We never know the total story of what's going on with another person. Often they have all sorts of private, (sometimes desperate) challenges that we don't even see.
So true, awakenedsoul. I went to a retreat once for people whose lives had been impacted by substance abuse. This was before I had gotten involved with Al-Anon--I felt so alone. But at this retreat, there were rich people, poor people, sick people, healthy people, men, women, you name it. Each brought an amazing story to the table. Amazing stories. It made me feel not quite alone, but more than that, in awe of people who had overcome. We truly don't know what challenges other people have. I heard once that if we sought to trade our problems with someone else, after hearing everyone else's we'd keep our own. I believe that.
I always liked that saying "hang your problems on the line, you take yours and I'll take mine". That reminds me of what you said Catherine. I try to remember that every day that I have it so much better than so many others. Someone on this thread I think it was said they had worked in a hospice setting and how eye opening it was. I think everyone should go through that experience at least once in their life or in a cancer ward or a similar place, all of a sudden we would be real content with our own lives. Thanks Razz, I have to admit I am not all that loveable quite a bit of the time, but I am trying real hard. These are all very thought provoking comments. Much to mull over in my foggy brain.
Williamsmith
8-30-15, 8:49pm
In my first career I learned that tragedy is no respecter of persons. Didn't matter educated, illiterate, rich, poor, working class, CEOs or owners of successful business. It rained on them all with the same frequency. I investigated deaths in the course of my duties. natural....accidental....suicide, homicide, drownings, hangings, shootings, stabbings, stranglings, suffocations, poisonings....seemingly endless ways of ending life.
I remember standing in the living room of a successful orthodontist. A multimillion dollar lakeside mansion, complete with elevator, and a garage that opened up to the lake for boat access. His son had disappeared and had been missing a couple days. He had left behind all his personal items. But he had a known addiction to pills. I looked out over the lake and its churning waters right there from his living room and I thought, how does a person tell him his son is likely under that water right now. It took a month or so for his body to be found.
And I remember standing in a filthy trailer where one young son had accidentally discharged a loaded shotgun striking his younger brother and killing him. They were ages 10 and 4 respectively.
Both fathers had had the same look. What their income was didn't matter.
awakenedsoul
8-30-15, 11:47pm
So true, awakenedsoul. I went to a retreat once for people whose lives had been impacted by substance abuse. This was before I had gotten involved with Al-Anon--I felt so alone. But at this retreat, there were rich people, poor people, sick people, healthy people, men, women, you name it. Each brought an amazing story to the table. Amazing stories. It made me feel not quite alone, but more than that, in awe of people who had overcome. We truly don't know what challenges other people have. I heard once that if we sought to trade our problems with someone else, after hearing everyone else's we'd keep our own. I believe that.
Yes. The thing I've learned as I've gotten older is to focus on what I want. If I focus on what annoys me, I attract more of that. It takes discipline.
awakenedsoul
8-30-15, 11:50pm
Williamsmith, That's what I'm talking about...life is definitely easier when we have our basic needs met. (food, shelter, and clothing.) But, we really don't need that much. The older I get, the more I realize how fragile life is. You just never know what's going to happen.
One of those 3:00 a.m. mornings when you can't sleep so just perusing the internet and saw this again. All of your postings and experiences have been such a motivator to me, that I am rereading a lot of them now. Good reading for when you have insomnia. Without putting a lot of your advice into practice I don't know how we would have survived this last summer. 13 medical appts in a few short mos. with all the co pays and extra meds and a few other unexpected expenses would have put us on the street for sure. Plus, the help of our son and his beautiful wife. We have been blessed. This past year has really taken the blinders off my husband's and my eyes. Although, we never bought anything considered luxury items or took vacations, etc. we never realized all the little leaks our shaky little boat had. Its amazing how little we do need to be happy. I now try to keep in mind that we are citizens of the world and not just our little backyard. We don't have to "own" a lot of possessions to be happy. Somewhere out there we can find something comparable and even better than what we would have racked up a huge credit card bill for. We don't "need" a gorgeous landscaped yard when we can go to a park or a lake. We don't have to suscribe to Netflix, etc when we can find a lot of movies on Youtube for free. I'm not saying its wrong to have these things, but when you have limited money there are alternatives. My eyes are wide open now and are seeing a lot of amazing things instead of having a narrow limited vision. Again, Thanks all of you, your insights are invaluable.
flowerseverywhere
10-3-15, 6:21am
One of those 3:00 a.m. mornings when you can't sleep so just perusing the internet and saw this again. All of your postings and experiences have been such a motivator to me, that I am rereading a lot of them now. Good reading for when you have insomnia. Without putting a lot of your advice into practice I don't know how we would have survived this last summer. 13 medical appts in a few short mos. with all the co pays and extra meds and a few other unexpected expenses would have put us on the street for sure. Plus, the help of our son and his beautiful wife. We have been blessed. This past year has really taken the blinders off my husband's and my eyes. Although, we never bought anything considered luxury items or took vacations, etc. we never realized all the little leaks our shaky little boat had. Its amazing how little we do need to be happy. I now try to keep in mind that we are citizens of the world and not just our little backyard. We don't have to "own" a lot of possessions to be happy. Somewhere out there we can find something comparable and even better than what we would have racked up a huge credit card bill for. We don't "need" a gorgeous landscaped yard when we can go to a park or a lake. We don't have to suscribe to Netflix, etc when we can find a lot of movies on Youtube for free. I'm not saying its wrong to have these things, but when you have limited money there are alternatives. My eyes are wide open now and are seeing a lot of amazing things instead of having a narrow limited vision. Again, Thanks all of you, your insights are invaluable.
I am watching the horizon waiting for sunrise and happened to read this thread. Your response is beautiful. If I were with you I would give you a big hug and tell you how deeply you touched me. Thank you.
Thank you so much Flowers Everywhere :) That starts my day out right.....
Its amazing how little we do need to be happy. I now try to keep in mind that we are citizens of the world and not just our little backyard. We don't have to "own" a lot of possessions to be happy.
Love this, as well as your other insights, corkym. I remember your anxiety when you first started posting, and it feels like you've truly had a "simple living awakening." I agree with flowerseverywhere, your post is beautiful.
Thoreau:
“However mean your life is, meet and live it; do not shun it and call it hard names. It is not so bad as you are. It looks poorest when you are richest. The fault-finder will find faults even in paradise. Love your life, poor as it is. You may perhaps have some pleasant, thrilling, glorious hours, even in a poorhouse. The setting sun is reflected from the windows of the almshouse as brightly as from the rich man’s abode; the snow melts before its doors as early in the spring. Cultivate property like a garden herb, like sage. Do not trouble yourself much to get new things, whether clothes or friends. Turn the old; return to them. Things do not change; we change. Sell your clothes and keep your thoughts… Superfluous wealth can buy superfluities only. Money is not required to buy one necessary of the soul.”
Nyogen Sunsaki:
Like a snail, I carry my humble zendō with me.
It is not as small as it looks
For the boundless sky joins it
When I open a window.
If one has no idea of limitation,
He should enjoy real freedom.
A nameless monk may not have the New Year callers to visit him,
But the morning sun hangs above the slums.
It will be honorable enough to receive the golden light from the east.
I love the quotes from Thoreau and Nyogen Sunsaki and I am going to print them out. That pretty much sums up exactly what I was trying to say, but they did it so perfect. Thank you for sharing them Catherine. I love them.
so corkym - do you have a book in you? Your experience, although trying, is good information for someone else. Why not write a book about what you would have done differently, toss in some brilliant philosophy and you might have a best seller. It is all about insight.
HaHa Kally, I wish I had a book in me. Actually I think we all do, but some of us have it hidden so deeply with no writing talent that it stays there. I fall in that category :) I got kind of hung up on the "brilliant philosophy" too. I have a lot of philosophy but the brilliant part escapes me. However, I do think all of you guys obviously have a ton of brilliance when it comes to life and I wish all of you would get together and write a book so I could read it :)
Another 3 a.m. morning scanning through the Simple Living Forums and came across this again. I have reread everyone's suggestions many times and they always reinspire me. Catherine-I have used those Thoreau and Nyogen Sunsaki quotes more than once. Thanks so much :) I have another one I came across recently that really means a lot to me "We've become more concerned about our standard of living than we are concerned about the living" Francis Chan. And that struck a deep chord in me. I know that is one of the things that has always touched me about all of you on this thread. You have found out what is important in life and you are concerned about others. You live simply, at the risk of not keeping up with the Joneses (which ironically enough is my last name....lol) Believe me No One wants to keep up with these Joneses. You have discovered the true value of life. I appreciate all of you so much. You do spur me on......
some of the ideas here are really good. i will follow up some of those links.
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