New car buying question

[CathyA]

I need a new car. Mine is 15 years old, around 170,000 miles and is failing. When I go to buy a new one, my DH will go with me and he'll drive. We'd both go at once, except that the dealer I like the most is about 43 miles away through lots of traffic, and I don't want to drive both cars if it isn't necessary. (And I don't want us to drive my car, since if it dies, there's no one to come get us!)

My question is this........If my car is 15 years old and has multiple things going wrong with it, is it important to actually have the car with me when I "deal"? I have had this car serviced at this place on schedule for 15 years, so they can see what's been done. I haven't done anything for it in over a year though, because at the last service they said not to sink any more money into it, and just drive it 'til it quits.

If we go in to look over/buy a new car, is actually having my old car there (for trade-in value) that important? DH says we're just going to look, but if they offer us a really good deal, I would like to buy it then. Just didn't know (with all the games that are played) if actually having my car there for a trade-in matters. If it doesn't really matter, I would rather donate my car to PBS and get at least a $400 tax deduction. Usually there is time to come back to get a new car, and I could bring my car in then.

I just wish there weren't so much game-playing when buying a car.

Thanks.

[Tammy]

CarMax is totally without games. They work on a completely different business model. I love them.

[Ultralight]

I need a new car. Mine is 15 years old, around 170,000 miles and is failing. When I go to buy a new one, my DH will go with me and he'll drive. We'd both go at once, except that the dealer I like the most is about 43 miles away through lots of traffic, and I don't want to drive both cars if it isn't necessary. (And I don't want us to drive my car, since if it dies, there's no one to come get us!)

My question is this........If my car is 15 years old and has multiple things going wrong with it, is it important to actually have the car with me when I "deal"? I have had this car serviced at this place on schedule for 15 years, so they can see what's been done. I haven't done anything for it in over a year though, because at the last service they said not to sink any more money into it, and just drive it 'til it quits.

If we go in to look over/buy a new car, is actually having my old car there (for trade-in value) that important? DH says we're just going to look, but if they offer us a really good deal, I would like to buy it then. Just didn't know (with all the games that are played) if actually having my car there for a trade-in matters. If it doesn't really matter, I would rather donate my car to PBS and get at least a $400 tax deduction. Usually there is time to come back to get a new car, and I could bring my car in then.

I just wish there weren't so much game-playing when buying a car.

Thanks.

I wish I had some words of wisdom, but I don't. I do, however, feel your pain. A little over two years ago my ex-wife and I went to Splitsville. We shared one car. I had a job. She was unemployed. As soon as she left she refused to let me use the car (it was in her name, though we both used it, and since I worked I had been paying for everything for it). So I was suddenly thrust into needing a car very badly (so I thought...).

My sis and BIL let me use one of their cars to get to work (luckily though, I worked mostly from home). I found the cheapest new car on the market (Nissan Versa hatchback) and bought it. I paid the 5 year loan off in 18 months.

But looking back, I wonder if I should have gotten a used Honda or even if I should have rented a car for my job then (I only needed a car one day every two weeks). But what really gets me is that I probably could have gone car-free! But I was not even aware of the concept at the time.

So all I can do is wish you luck. Buying a car/owning a car seems like a losing venture in many ways. But your lifestyle may require this necessary evil. :(

[pinkytoe]

Having just got through the car buying process (used), we decided early on not to mess with the trade-in stuff. We just listed my old Volvo on craigslist and had a solid buyer within a few days for double what the dealer would have given us. I believe the dealer will need to see your old car to evaluate and then they will offer you a pittance. Maybe in your case, they can go by using repair records but should be able to get an answer over the phone as to what they will do.

[iris lilies]

I need a new car. Mine is 15 years old, around 170,000 miles and is failing. When I go to buy a new one, my DH will go with me and he'll drive. We'd both go at once, except that the dealer I like the most is about 43 miles away through lots of traffic, and I don't want to drive both cars if it isn't necessary. (And I don't want us to drive my car, since if it dies, there's no one to come get us!)

My question is this........If my car is 15 years old and has multiple things going wrong with it, is it important to actually have the car with me when I "deal"? I have had this car serviced at this place on schedule for 15 years, so they can see what's been done. I haven't done anything for it in over a year though, because at the last service they said not to sink any more money into it, and just drive it 'til it quits.

If we go in to look over/buy a new car, is actually having my old car there (for trade-in value) that important? DH says we're just going to look, but if they offer us a really good deal, I would like to buy it then. Just didn't know (with all the games that are played) if actually having my car there for a trade-in matters. If it doesn't really matter, I would rather donate my car to PBS and get at least a $400 tax deduction. Usually there is time to come back to get a new car, and I could bring my car in then.

I just wish there weren't so much game-playing when buying a car.

Thanks.

if you wish to make a deal without your trade in, then do it. Tell them you don't have a car to trade in, so that's not a factor in negotiation.

We we bought two new cars in 2009 because we just didn't want to invest the time in finding good used cars. That was the height of the Cash for Clunkers program which greatly reduced the supply of used cars anyway.

but I have to say that pragmatically, used cars are generally the best deal. My two favorite cars of our married life were both used. One was our neighbor's company car that we bought for well under book price and it was luxurious! It was a Ford, but plush and my first car with automatic everything.

[SteveinMN]

No dealership will make a trade offer on your car without seeing it. You can tell them all the work has been done there, but you also told us that there is work the car needs that you haven't had done, so their going by their records will not result in an accurate picture or offer. You know they will offer low to cover their butts. If you plan to offer the car as trade-in bait, it has to be there when you do the deal. Otherwise, understand they'll just make a goodwill offer (essentially a further discount on the newer car because they'll send yours off to auction moments after you leave the lot) and decide if the trip is worth it to you.

BTW, I don't know where the $400 PBS figure came from. I'm not contesting it particularly; most cars will clear $500 in parts alone (minus whatever costs are incurred in moving the car to its disposal location). But I know the IRS has cracked down mightily on the valuation of cars for donation purposes. You might want to make sure you have the most current information about donating your car to PBS.

[bae]

I just bought a new car this Wednesday. I took the vehicle I was replacing to the dealer with me, a 17 year old Volvo wagon with 150k+ miles on it, and some serious mechanical issues. It was in Edmunds "rough" condition, and I looked up the Edmunds trade-in value for this car in this shape before I left - it was ~$1100, and I think that was a generous.

I sat down with the sales guy, told him I'd like to reach agreement on the price of the vehicle I was purchasing first, and then we'd talk about what they would give me for the Volvo. He agreed to this procedure, and there was none of the classic old-school dickering back-and-forth with trips to mysterious sales managers.

Took us 5 minutes to discuss the price of the new vehicle, and about 5 minutes to come up with the value of the trade-in. They simply glanced at the Volvo to verify it was what I said it was, and we looked it up on Edmunds, then adjusted a wee bit. They didn't look at all the service records I brought with me. I suspected I even wasted my time washing it before I took it over. I got $1000+ for the trade-in, which the dealer was just going to turn around and wholesale out - it'll probably end up salvaged for parts and not rehabilitated as a useable vehicle, as it needed new tires, new brakes, some transmission work, a catalytic converter replacement, and its turbo seals repaired or perhaps even the whole turbo replaced. Many thousands of dollars of work, for a car whose interior was "dearly loved", and exterior scuffed and scratched from life in the bush.

It would have cost me $100 just to get the car home, given gas and ferry fees. In the local market in my county, I would have been lucky to get $1000 for it, and I would have hated knowing anyone was trying to rely on it for transportation who didn't have deep pockets or mechanical skills to keep it running safely, so I was just going to donate it to the fire department for extrication team practice.

So, in my case the trade-in vehicle being there didn't complicate matters, but it wasn't worth much to begin with.

[pinkytoe]

I guess I was lucky to get 1900 for my 95 240 sedan with 160K miles on it. The first person who looked at it bought it. I do have to say our recent experience of buying used at a dealership (Honda) was exceedingly pain-free. I offered $2500 under their web price and they said it's a deal.

[iris lilies]

Oh yeah, Steve is right that they will not price your car without seeing it. Our last trade in had wonderful doggie aroma and no service record was going to show that.

i can also relate to wondering if the thing will limp to the Dealer. We had that problem with our first trade in, it barely made it.

[mschrisgo2]

When I bought my new Kia Soul last year, I was limping into the dealer with a 2005 Chrysler Town & Country. I had put way too much time and cash into repairs during the previous year, it was making a strange engine noise , and I just didn't trust it any more. My criteria for keeping a car is that, no matter how many miles, if I can still trust it to drive 100 miles from home, it's all good. I told them I did have a possible trade-in, but wanted to negotiate the new car first.

I had already gotten sticker prices by phone from several dealerships (I live in a large metro area), and knew what the "list prices" were for the various extra features. I drove a car, while they located cars within a 100 radius with the exterior color that I wanted, and determined their features. Then we sat down to look at features and prices; I ended up without the sunroof and cd player that I thought I wanted, but in retrospect, I don't miss the sunroof- it's been too blasted hot and windy to enjoy it anyway!- and I Love the satellite radio (vs. cd player). When they offered me the car with the other features I wanted for $6500. below list price, I said 'Sold! Now let's talk about a possible trade-in." They offered to take the Chrysler in for $3000. off the just agreed upon sale price of my new Soul, and again I said 'Sold!' It had 201,000 miles on it, good tires, and rated a Good for both interior and exterior, but I knew it needed front brakes and new struts _again_ and the engine noise could have been an expensive problem. So I was very happy to leave it with them and drive my new car home. All in all, a very pleasant and rewarding car buying experience.

[bae]

I guess I was lucky to get 1900 for my 95 240 sedan with 160K miles on it. The first person who looked at it bought it.

The 240 is a classic highly-desireable model amongst the Volvo addicts. (It was however last made in 1993 for US sales.) They run forever, and are easy to keep in good repair. Assuming it had every possible option, and was in perfect shape, a dealer would sell that car for $2300 even today. Edmunds suggests about $1200 for face-to-face private sale. So you got a great price for it, the dealer would have only paid you about $600 as a trade-in.

My poor V70R AWD, while newer, is less-desireable as it requires much more expensive maintenance, and less of the work can be done by the owner. I looked all around for an earlier-vintage Volvo wagon without turbo, but on the used market here they get snapped up instantly if they are in decent shape. Mine needed $2500 of turbo/engine work alone, plus $500 in brakes, $600 in tires, $100 for a new battery, probably $1000 in exhaust system work, ... - for a car with a book value far less than that total. And then you still had to deal with the issue that I'd been carrying around Basset Hounds and Coon Hounds in the back of it for nearly 20 years :-)

[CathyA]

Thanks everyone.
I didn't know if a "discount" they might give me would happen even without the car.........since if I brought the car with me, they might say it was for that. Games, games, games......

I used to have a 240 DL wagon. I think I bought it in '86 or '87. I have to say, that was the most expensive to fix car I've ever had. The only service around for it was criminal. It was a Volvo dealer and they would screw me over every time I went. I finally found a local mechanic with his own little shop who was honest and competent. I just wish I'd found it years earlier.

I'm wanting another Honda Odyssey van. I hate buying a larger car for just me, but I do so many things that require space. And this place that is 43 miles away has been unbelievably honest and fair.
I think I will drive my car there, in case we really want to deal the first time we go. I have the feeling they'll look at it and laugh, but oh well. I love it. I will miss it. :(
15 years is a long time to have a car relationship. Maybe I should just keep it and make a big planter out of it? Or a chicken coop? :~)

[bae]

Thanks everyone.
I didn't know if a "discount" they might give me would happen even without the car.........since if I brought the car with me, they might say it was for that. Games, games, games......



The key is to not let them control which "game" you are playing, and the rules.

I read "Don't get taken every time" by Remar Sutton ages ago, and it has saved me a fortune over the years.

It's a car. Negotiate the price of the car first. Don't introduce any other confusion, so they can't play shell games. Find out what the car is costing you, bottom-line.

If you have a vehicle to trade-in, price that now. It is a completely different transaction, don't mingle the two vehicles in your mind, or in their calculations.

Then, and only then, work on how you are paying for the vehicle you are buying - cash, or are you financing? If financing, don't let them play shell games, it's like any other loan - amount, duration, interest rate. Make sure the interest rate is competitive with what anyone else will give you.

And finally, now that you're "done", don't cave at the end and buy all sorts of lame, overpriced protective sprays and overpriced magic extended service contracts. Which the person they hand you off to to handle the paperwork will try to slide in there. You don't need it. And if you do need it, you can buy it cheaper elsewhere.

Go in with the cost of the vehicle and your expected discount already worked out. With the Internet today, resources like Edmunds make this trivial.

[CathyA]

Thanks Bae.
What if the salesman asks upfront if I have a trade-in?

[bae]

Thanks Bae.
What if the salesman asks upfront if I have a trade-in?

You smile, tell him "yes, if the price is right", then don't let him mingle the transactions to hide/move costs. I told the guy straight-up this week "I'm here to replace *this* with *that*, and I need to be out of here by 2:45pm..." It was 1:10pm when I arrived. He was fine working with that approach.

[Radicchio]

We stopped playing the games when buying new cars almost thirty years ago. We immediately stopped negotiations once the "games" started---at one dealership they literally followed us out of the building and ran alongside the car begging us to come back in and talk. Eventually, we found a dealership (50 miles from us) and negotiated the deal we were looking for over the phone---it took us less than an hour to complete the purchase the next weekend, with no sudden surprises. Over time, we've found other dealerships that don't play games---which we tell them we won't engage in. Our last purchase was through Costco's automobile buying program and it was very successful. We had already done our due diligence and explored what was available, and we found that the price through Costco was even less than we were aiming for (and much, much less than any other dealerships would offer). I don't know whether you have anything like that available, but I'd highly recommend it if you do.

The crazy back and forth games, asking what you want to pay per month (versus total cost of the car), or promising if we buy "right now" are totally unacceptable, and we have not had any of that in the last 30 years because we do our homework first and make it clear we just want the bottom line price and if it's doable we'll make the deal; if not, we'll keep looking.

[bae]

The crazy back and forth games, asking what you want to pay per month (versus total cost of the car), or promising if we buy "right now" are totally unacceptable, and we have not had any of that in the last 30 years because we do our homework first and make it clear we just want the bottom line price and if it's doable we'll make the deal; if not, we'll keep looking.

Exactly! Most of the cars I've purchased in the past 20 years or so I simply showed up to sign the paperwork and handed them the check, we'd already negotiated via phone/fax/email. The car I bought this week I already had a very nice quote from them on a very similar vehicle from their Internet/fleet sales guy, but when we arrived they had an even better vehicle that was just being rolled off the car transporter from the factory (by "better" I mean "with even fewer useless and expensive options"), so I had to sit down for a few minutes to change the deal.

[ToomuchStuff]

No dealership will make a trade offer on your car without seeing it.

Experience says otherwise.
One, my mom traded in my dad's truck, unseen and they offered $3k for it, without knowing its shapes. (not a good move on their part since it had transmission issues)
Two, bosses vehicles, When they used to trade them in (or trade in the wifes), the dealership knew the vehicle and serviced it, so they already knew the condition. (now the "company" ones get driven till dead or handed down)

So it does happen, maybe rare, but happens.

[SteveinMN]

One other consideration in negotiating: in Minnesota, the value of a trade-in reduces the value of the transaction as far as sales tax applies. A $30,000 car will have a sales tax bill of $2,137.50. But if you trade in a car for which they give you, say, $8,000, then the sales tax is computed on the (30,000-8,000) difference ($1,567.50). We're not talking huge differences on low-value trade-ins, but it's definitely something to remember if your state works that way, too.