View Full Version : Do you ever feel like an oddball because you're frugal?
frugalone
8-21-15, 12:56pm
I'm pretty sure my sister is upset with me right now, and indirectly, my frugality might be the cause.
Her son is turning 14 on Sunday and we are invited to a birthday party for him. It's more then 30 miles away, and my car is in the shop. It has been for nearly two weeks. First the garage was backed up (but told us to bring it in anyway), then it became an issues of getting the parts, several of which had to be special ordered. New tires as well. The bottom line is, I won't have the car this weekend.
I recently discussed some of my frustration at this situation w/DSis, and she suggested I take part of an upcoming windfall and buy a "new used car." I can't afford two cars, nor do I want two cars. In her world, this is just unfathomable. So is owning a 16-year-old car. So is a garage that doesn't give you "loaners."
So she's been very quiet since I told her we couldn't attend the party. I don't know if she just doesn't believe me (I've bowed out of other family gatherings b/c neither spouse nor I felt up to it, and that caused a holy stink), or if she disagrees with my lifestyle or what.
Her household income is well over $100K, with three nearly new vehicles, smartphones for all four family members, home in upscale development. She can go out to a restaurant for dinner w/o knowing it will put a big dent in her budget. We just live different lives.
So...do you ever feel like you're an oddball, or freakish, because you follow a different drummer? I sometimes get the impression my family looks down on me. I've got an uncle who had to flee town because of creditors, declared bankruptcy, and still comes out smelling like a rose and takes expensive vacations with his family. My mom's side in particular is very "second generation immigrants who made good."
Just wanted to vent about this.
Absolutely. DH's family has no clue what it is to live on a budget or have to think about if something was affordable or not or to have to make a choice. In fact saying something like "well, I needed an oil change anyway so I just traded it in for a new car" is not something I would ever say.
Luckily I'm mostly able to avoid those types of people now. But yes, I've had annoying experiences with relatives (mostly ex-in-laws) who just don't seem to be able to understand anyone's position but their own, even when they complain about their own lives all the time.
At least once a day. When I observe the expectations and abundance of those around me (and lack of gratefulness for it), I think I must be living on the wrong planet. My bil made great fun of us because we used an old meat thermometer and hadn't replaced it with an instant digital one. Also, I drove the 20 yr old car and put up with some derision from family members even though it ran just fine. I finally decided to buy a new "used" car with really great reliability ratings and pay cash. It is now four years old so in this culture, it will be considered old before long. Just the other day, I expressed to dd that I wasn't going to buy something because it was too costly. She looked at me funny and said "Mom, you make it, you spend it, you can't take it with you" which gave me pause for thought. The thing I always ask myself is if I were wealthy, would I buy the more expensive thing? I can't say for sure, but I feel pretty certain that my values would keep me from buying anything more than what I need with an occasional splurge as I do now.
Yes. I suspect many of the people at my former day job and many in DW's family wonder what the &#^% is wrong with a guy who just quits his job. I don't care. I'm happy. DW is happy. We have enough money to splurge occasionally; we're just very selective about where we spend it and when we do buy something, we expect it to last. (Besides, there are a couple of real cheapskates in DW's family; we look like a game show host handing out $100s compared to them.)
One thing that has helped us is in being pro-active. If friends suggest going out to dinner at a spendy restaurant, we suggest a potluck at our house. After all, the point is less the food than the company. So if it's all the same to the friend-units... I often join a group of men who are college buddies of DW's for various gatherings. Breakfasts out every other month isn't hard for us to handle financially. But I started offering my cooking skills at our holiday weekend getaway because I don't have a cabin or a boat or a personal watercraft or the top tier of cable access. Sometimes in that crowd I feel like the poor cousin. But then I remember that they've all got many more years of work ahead of them. And I don't. Pays yer money, takes yer choice.
No, it doesn't bother me that we live on a budget. It is what it is. If we can't afford to go somewhere with friends, I just say "I can't afford it". No one blinks. On the other hand, I'm way past worrying what other people think.
I think with your sister, it is probably more about being disappointed that you won't be at her son's birthday celebration than being upset that you won't purchase a new car.... I had the same situation with my youngest sister not coming to special family events, mainly because I was better off financially than her. It always hurt and made me very sad. I never flaunted anything and what I did have I had worked my butt off for. I just wanted to spend time with my sister and was hurt that she avoided me and my children because I had a bigger house at the time (I was raising three kids then) and a newer car. She seems much more comfortable with me now that I live in a 600 square foot cabin and my health is bad. I guess I am no longer 'better off' than her, so she visits often now. Actually, I think she's afraid I may die now and realizes that she's wasted precious time in not visiting over the years...
Frugalone, your car is 16 years old. I don't know its repair history nor how much you've been spending on repairs, but at some point, older cars aren't worth the cost of repairs and/or the time you spend dealing with repairs. Have you considered selling the 16 year old car and getting a "new to you" used car? Perhaps something 8 years old instead of 16.
awakenedsoul
8-25-15, 8:42pm
I've had people make comments about "the way I live". When I rode my bike everywhere, everyone noticed. I was definitely the oddball for taking the bus. In my knitting group, I would just order a drink or a piece of baguette. I got a few comments about that. It's really paid off, though. When I recently needed money for a surgery, the cash was in my emergency fund. People also think it's weird that I don't have t.v. I've learned to steer the conversation towards asking people about themselves. They seem to like that.
It sounds to me like your sister is disappointed that you won't be at the gathering. Maybe she's taking it personally. Do you think she feels rejected?
Teacher Terry
8-27-15, 11:41am
Even though we are all professionals my siblings make a lot more $ then us. They went into careers that paid better but I have no regrets as I loved my work. I have also had 2 divorces which cost $. When I lived by them it was an issue but now we live across the country so it does not matter. They would also make comments that we should just "treat ourselves." We live on a budget but it has paid off because now we are taking some nice vacations. But they can do all that & more without budgeting.
freshstart
8-27-15, 2:01pm
Sometimes I feel oddball out when around some of my family. My cousin had a horrible marriage to a man who lived in NYC and came home for weekends. Really nice, fun to be around guy, incredibly wealthy. They built this 7000 sq ft home, gorgeous but not what I would've picked. He had affairs and was bi-polar, would not take meds. Well, this is horrible, he killed himself. My cousin moved to a smaller, more of a McMansion. Money will never be a worry. And she realized her BFF's ex-husband was the love of her life 3 months after her DH had passed. BFF begged her not to date him of all people. Well, she did, he dumped her after 2 years, she had long since lost her BFF from high school. So there I am judging her
On cousins' night out, between her and her sister (well-off but in a normal way, lol) I start to feel like the poor divorced one. I don't think they mean to do it but my widowed cousin will go on and on about the ways she has had to "cut back", like she finally decided top of the line Land Rangers (Rovers? IDK, big SUV) are not necessary, it's so hard to manage work and kids (she teaches health one day a week, highly doubt this is something she has to do, just stop spending thousands and thousands of dollars. The new house has all new, expensive furniture). By some miracle her kids are doing fine, it's been 2 yrs. I cannot imagine the pain she went through so I cut her slack, but she has household help and works one day a week, tell me again how hard it is to be a single mom raising kids?
She and her sister are hard core shoppers, price no object for my first cousin. My first cousin has a different LV bag every time I see her. So the conversation turns to purses and clothes, my cousin complaining how she has had to cut back. Her clothes are beautiful, I give her that. Personal trainers that come to the house? Of course and for the kids, too. The youngest already has 2 horses. Trips to Spain, Italy, Morocco. And then sits and tears leak out, not for the husband, she openly says it was sad but he was barely a husband, but because she has had to "cut back". What cutting back, going fom 6000 sq ft to 3500? Yes, I'm sure that was an adjustment. But to claim poor mouth and cry about it when you have two horses, amazing vacations and the wardrobe of a reality star? I found it hard to summon the proper amount to empathy the last time, I'd heard it all before. For fun, I'll say, I try to never, ever pay more than $20 on an article of clothing, $50-75 on a winter coat. They think I'm lying, I rarely break this rule. They'll say something about a dress I worse, the majority of my dresses were $200 Talbot's items marked down to $8-10 on the very lowest clearance rack at the Outlet. I love them dearly, but I hate the way I compare myself to them, sure one LV bag would be nice, I like purses lol, and feel like they feel sorry for me (before ever getting this sick). So I turn the conversation to books or movies and try to get over myself, they may feel sorry for me, they did not understand my lifestyle before I got sick, I can't imagine what they would think about the income stream now, but do I really know what they are thinking? Who cares and if they do feel like my life must be horrible, who cares about that? Family is still family. My not fabulously wealthy cousin was the first person my age that I allowed to see me like this. She brings over meals, she brought me a bag of books when I told her I had lost one of the most important things to me; reading. They are good people, we love each other, we just could not be more different. But yes, I am and always will be the oddball out in that circle and I'm ok with that.
Teacher Terry
8-27-15, 5:05pm
Wow Freshstart-those people don't realize how lucky they are. I hate when people with lots of $ act like they are poor-ugh!
freshstart
8-27-15, 6:34pm
the second cousin I mentioned is really more normal and realistic, she checks in via email once a week or so offering to do anything I need, we would be friends even if we weren't family.
My first cousin, I do not get at all. Besides safaris with her kids, she works with an organization to help African children and visited with that organization. Very good, kind. All over her house are spiritual and inspirational quotes that are oppositional totally to the way she appears to live her life. How am I supposed to pee when this is across from me:
We think sometimes that poverty is only being hungry, naked and homeless. The poverty of being unwanted, unloved and uncared for is the greatest poverty. We must start in our own homes to remedy this kind of poverty.
Mother Theresa
I start looking around the gorgeous BR, thinking about all the things, the sheer number of things in this house for 3 people and it's hard to reconcile that with the poverty Mother Theresa is talking about, even though this is not what Mother Theresa is even talking about. It's just bizarre to me. She's fine, she's just always rubbed me the wrong way, even as teens, she had to have the latest and greatest clothes and bags. Like now, here she is raising money for African orphans (way more significant than my drop offs at the food pantry and dog shelter, lol) but wears $400 a bottle some perfume I've never heard of. One sits on each BR sink.
We just approach the world from opposite ends, if I had that much money, I think or I'd like to believe I would make sure retirement is well covered, educated my kids and put some extra away for their futures, made sure my folks had enough, everyone covered for as best I can and then I'd probably still live in this house, and downsize further when my parents die, drive the Big Green Booger til it died. And fund the charities I care about. There is no longer a library in the worst part of the city, kids would have to take a city bus with a transfer to get to the nearest, crappy one. My library is nirvana, these kids and adults don't even have one. My cousin probably does not have enough money to start a library, lol but together she and her country club friends might be able to. That's what I'd do before crying over Land Rovers (I know this is not the right name for these cars, I just know whatever they are, I can't afford them, lol) and pocket books.
God, I am so judgmental!
There's a lot of dissonance out there. On one hand we're admonished to Be The Best We Can Be, which in our culture is translated into Buy The Best We Can Buy, and then display it as proof. I think most people are socialized to do this. On the other, people also have generous and loving hearts, so as long as they can still BTBWCB, they want to help others too.
Yeah, there's a component of selfish enjoyment in having the newest, shiniest, finest things, you can't deny that, and in some cases the nicest and most expensive thing is the one that actually works well enough to do the job where the lesser thing doesn't, but I think a lot of the disconnect can be laid at the feet of our culture's insistence that we are not Our Personal Best without them. There's a subtle shaming aspect to our advertising - you, personally, intellectually, physically, socially, sexually, or in the sense of being a discerning and unique individual, could be "better", if you bought this. People echo it wordlessly (sometimes not so wordlessly) to each other, it's like a hum under their interactions.
I think those of us who try not to embrace or send that message fall outside the norm, and we're sometimes seen as really messing up the plan and peace of mind for people who do.
And I heartily want to be in the group that falls outside the percieved norm. Avoiding advertising and being incredibly skeptical of any that slips by. Nice things done by business are mostly done only to make more money. It is surprising and wonderful to meet people whose goal in life is helping others and not acquiring the lastest and greatest.
We are lucky to have found a number of great organizations full of people trying to make the world, or our little part, better. I fully support them with time and money. It really helps to surround ourselves with like minded people.
I do my part by keeping my little flip phone and explaining to those who try to shame me into a smart device that this little phone does all I want it to do. Keeps my life simple. I also explain why I dont need one more gadget or tool just because it is new. I am perfectly happy with my good knife and the few pots that I use daily. I dont care if I wear the same "smart outfit" to multiple occasions. I enjoy buying some clothes at garage sales.
freshstart
8-27-15, 8:43pm
I think those of us who try not to embrace or send that message fall outside the norm, and we're sometimes seen as really messing up the plan and peace of mind for people who do.
yes, I agree. And I think one way they get peace of mind back is to feel sorry for the person outside the norm. In their mind, this justifies their choices.
then this makes me think, am I doing the same thing to others? I have a nice life and have many things I don't need, just on a much smaller scale than my cousin. it's enough to make you want to go hard core simplified and give all but your needs away and live on a minuscule budget and give the rest to people who need it more. But I like my tivo and my soft bed.
Yep. I want to be Peace Pilgrim, but I very much like my Prius. :~)
I think part of the difference is that we know we're on a slippery slope, while others appear quite oblivious to the contradiction ... they seem to layer and layer defenses about having to look at it. Not that knowing we're being a bit hypocritical at times justifies our choices, necessarily, but to be aware of it gives one the possibility of making better choices.
SteveinMN
8-28-15, 11:58am
It strikes me that the people surrounding themselves with the best (their) money can buy may be doing so because it insulates them. Nobody likes me for my sports car, my cabin, my wine cellar, the football-watching parties I throw in front of the 80-inch home theater, my season tickets, my mansion. I have none of these things, so people have to like me because I'm me, not because I can offer some material thing they don't have. It's a more personal connection -- and a bigger personal risk.
It also strikes me that the opposite should be true: that I should not be friends with someone just because they have a pickup I can borrow or they invite us out to dinner at cool restaurants. I don't think I do this.
Teacher Terry
8-28-15, 11:58am
i have always helped others with both my time & $ so am at peace with me. WE aren't excessive in any way but also will buy those things that bring long lasting pleasure-not fleeting. As such I am much more into experiences then things. I have tried to find balance. I think some of that comes with age. As you get older you start to really understand what is important. Some people are lucky enough to figure this out when young.
Honestly, I would reply "I would be happy to attend my nephew's birthday party if someone can come get me and bring me back home".
I don't know your age. I can tell you a day will come that you no longer wonder what other people think. When you make mindful choices YOU feel good and appreciate your life and THAT is what matters to you.
Your description of your sister's lifestyle tells me she likely lives on debt. It is unlikely she's not doing that all on cash, she's doing it on debt. $100k household income sounds like a lot, but it doesn't go nearly as far when folks live that lifestyle. I've watched my in-laws who still work full time at 73 and 75 and it ain't purdy.. they happily refinanced their home at 70 pulling full cash value out:( and were happy to share that w/DH. THose in debt would like us to join them. That's why they encourage spending when we say no.
I know very few people who live large AND live on cash being debt-free. It's just not the American way. I hope and pray for a return to the pre 70's philosophy. And that's why we simple-livers are here.....right?:welcome:
I do my part by keeping my little flip phone and explaining to those who try to shame me into a smart device that this little phone does all I want it to do. .
I fully admit to having a droid smart phone. Paid $59 with a 2y contract and it was a good decision for me. That was 2.5y ago. I love what it can do for me and I enjoy it. I actually learned to use the GPS option this summer AND to surf the net for a historic location and a good place to eat. This old dog CAN learn new tricks!
And a smartphone is NOT for everyone. I held out for 12y when everyone around me had their crackberry :~)in hand. I prefer technology well-developed before I jump in.
It is so awesome that everyone here feels totally comfortable and free to share our life choices here and know we are not judged :cool:
You know what's funny? Nobody even offered to come and pick us up. And I'm fine with that, really.
It never occurred to me that my sister and her husband might be in heavy debt. I guess b/c I think $100K+ is this HUGE amount of money (I've never had a household income of more than $40K) and one could do just about anything on that salary. But thanks for the reality check.
Some of these stories in this thread blow my mind!
Honestly, I would reply "I would be happy to attend my nephew's birthday party if someone can come get me and bring me back home".
I don't know your age. I can tell you a day will come that you no longer wonder what other people think. When you make mindful choices YOU feel good and appreciate your life and THAT is what matters to you.
Your description of your sister's lifestyle tells me she likely lives on debt. It is unlikely she's not doing that all on cash, she's doing it on debt. $100k household income sounds like a lot, but it doesn't go nearly as far when folks live that lifestyle. I've watched my in-laws who still work full time at 73 and 75 and it ain't purdy.. they happily refinanced their home at 70 pulling full cash value out:( and were happy to share that w/DH. THose in debt would like us to join them. That's why they encourage spending when we say no.
I know very few people who live large AND live on cash being debt-free. It's just not the American way. I hope and pray for a return to the pre 70's philosophy. And that's why we simple-livers are here.....right?:welcome:
ApatheticNoMore
8-29-15, 2:06pm
I've watched my in-laws who still work full time at 73 and 75 and it ain't purdy.. they happily refinanced their home at 70 pulling full cash value out and were happy to share that w/DH.
this I honestly do not understand at all. Even if you saved not one plug nickle for retirement (more understandable if a series of healthcare expenses or other tragedies wiped it out) why not just live off Social Security already? But it doesn't pay much? Sure and you won't be vacationing in your retirement and rice and beans may be 1/2 the dinners, but if you've waited till 70 or later to collect (that's late not early collection), it can't be that bad. The Social Security not paying much would be more of a problem if you retire with no savings and start collecting at 62 not 72, I would think.
It strikes me that the people surrounding themselves with the best (their) money can buy may be doing so because it insulates them. Nobody likes me for my sports car, my cabin, my wine cellar, the football-watching parties I throw in front of the 80-inch home theater, my season tickets, my mansion. I have none of these things, so people have to like me because I'm me, not because I can offer some material thing they don't have. It's a more personal connection -- and a bigger personal risk.
It also strikes me that the opposite should be true: that I should not be friends with someone just because they have a pickup I can borrow or they invite us out to dinner at cool restaurants. I don't think I do this.
---This should be framed.
What Gardner said about your sister's family most likely being in debt. $100,000 is really $60,000 after taxes.
Teacher Terry
8-30-15, 12:31pm
I think if they wanted you to come they should have offered to come pick you up. Also the in-laws mentioned are probably collecting SS in addition to working because it does not continue to grow after age 70 & there is no penalty for taking it at that age while working (or at least i hope they are).
this I honestly do not understand at all. Even if you saved not one plug nickle for retirement (more understandable if a series of healthcare expenses or other tragedies wiped it out) why not just live off Social Security already? But it doesn't pay much? Sure and you won't be vacationing in your retirement and rice and beans may be 1/2 the dinners, but if you've waited till 70 or later to collect (that's late not early collection), it can't be that bad. The Social Security not paying much would be more of a problem if you retire with no savings and start collecting at 62 not 72, I would think.
They never travel. It's a big deal to drive 2h to her brother's house and stay with them (no food or hotel expense). They work. Their house needs a lot of work-it is not in sellable condition...they are living on the threadbare/no padding left carpet that is original from 1979.
They pour entirely too much $ into their divorced daughter and her 3 adult sons. At times 3 of the 4 have lived with them. I believe they contribute no $ when livig there. Hell, the boys never even mowed the lawn once for their Grandpa.
DH washed his hands years ago. It's sad. We are certain the inheritance we used to hear a little about has been spent on the afore mentioned moochers. We don't really care about that part, we care that his folks are still laboring when they should be able to enjoy some life instead of working for the paycheck.
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