View Full Version : How to handle a friendship being ruined by an out of control child. Sorry, it's long
I'm at wits end with my best friend's grandson. It is ruining our friendship. Weekdays and most weekends she lives with her daughter and two grandchildren. Her daughter spends precious little time with her kids, particularly her 3 1/2 year old son. My friend is therefore more of a parent than the mom is. And more often than not, on the few weekends she does come home and we can spend some time together, she brings her grandson because mom doesn't want to deal with him.
This child is a nightmare. I like kids, really I do. I even had one. But this kid is a whole different matter. He absolutely must have every ounce of grandma's attention at all times. If she tries to talk to me or anyone else he will do whatever it takes to get her attention. Screaming, tearing pictures off of walls in restaurants, throwing food and silverware on the floor....you name it. I will no longer go out to dinner with her if she has him in tow.
This weekend I had her over to dinner along with three other people. First he loudly announced that he didn't like anything I made and he wouldn't eat it. Not expecting a child for dinner I didn't have milk or juice on hand. I poured him some pop which he promptly spit out on my counter. Then in spite of us sitting down at the table for dinner, he took off wandering my house and found a toy I had just bought for my soon to be step grandson. When I wouldn't let him tear it open he went into a rage, kicking and screaming on the kitchen floor.
He then came back to the table and continued to scream and yell over everyone else. After several attempts at placating him my friend told him to go sit on the sofa. He sat there sceaming over anything anyone said. You simply could not have a conversation.
I finally excused myself from the table and marched to the sofa and told him to cut it out, that he was in my house, not his mother's house or grandma's house and that in my house children don't scream and throw fits. When he proceeded to keep screaming that I and his grandma were bothering him I picked him up by the wrists, and carried him upstairs to my bedroom put him on my bed and told him in no uncertain terms that he was to stay there and not utter a word. When he stopped yelling I turned on a cartoon for him and told him that he was not to come down unless he was asked for.
Then next hour and a half were bliss. After that he did eventually creep down the stairs and agreed to be good and he sat with us at the table and behaved.
I honestly don't know what my friend thinks of my actions. Maybe I was out of line, but I just couldn't take it anymore. I'm at a point where doing anything with her is a waste of time as long as he's there. It's just war. I'm trying to decide whether or not to tell her I don't want her at my house when she has him, which is almost always. We're best friends. But I don't feel I should have to put up with this. I don't know if I should talk to her or just leave it alone and avoid her when she brings him along.
I think you need to take a break from your friend until she has done with her child rearing. She has made her choice and it is obvious you miss the old friendship. But I just don't think she will be there in that way for quite some time.
I imagine those kids are her priority now for whatever reason and that is where she will put her energy. If you continue on the way you are going I think you will likely lose the friendship anyhow as you and she have very different ideas about kids.
You make your choice, she makes her choice and that will be that for now.
I dont really have any answer but feel your pain. We have friends who have a 3.5 year old granddaughter a little like that. No peace for anyone if she is not the center of attention and she has never been taught not to interupt when adults are talking.
If it is really as bad as you say, I would tell her he is not welcome until he can control himself. I feel for her but her lack of action is a big part of the problem. She has no control at this point and apparantly can just tune him out.
I mean how can you avoid conflict every time he is around unless you avoid her altogether. You should not have to discipline him. Perhaps just tell her you would like her company WHEN she can come alone.
Our craft group had to make a firm rule of no kids at our meetings due to issues like your friend bringing an uncontrolled child.
I've noticed that parents who spoil their children and don't discipline them end up raising their grandchildren. Funny how that works, the grown children don't have the skills to raise their own offspring. And the cycle continues. Grandma still spoils and doesn't discipline.
In your case, look how a little discipline caused a change in the boy's attitude and behavior. Shame on the grandmother for not requiring any sort of standard of behavior for her grandson. No wonder the mom doesn't want to deal with him. Yeah, when you let a kid do whatever he wants at age 1 and 2, well, by 3, they are hard to deal with. It's not so cute any more.
Sad you have to deal with this and possibly lose a friendship over it. Sad that the grandmother will allow him to act up so. If it doesn't cause strife with your friend, I'd continue to have high standards in your house. I bet he will learn he has to behave in your home. I don't think I'd meet your friend in public with him in tow. But in your house, you could make the rules.
In my opinion, it's not the boy's fault that he is acting up. He's been trained, for lack of training, to act up. It's the fault of his caretakers. And enforcing rules of your house to the boy will actually help him, is actually what he needs and probably longs for.
Sad Eyed Lady
4-11-11, 1:20pm
And just think of the poor grandmother who has to put up with this all the time that she has him, which seems like a lot of the time. Has to put up with I said, because unless she changes some patterns it will continue. I couldn't deal with this at all, so yes if it was me I would probably just avoid this friend and if she asks directly just tell her then what the problem is. She will probably already know.
Thanks for your thoughts on this everyone. I will say that even I was surprised at his changed behaviour for the rest of the night. It was eye opening. My friend constantly tells me how brilliant he is. He is in a Montessori School and according the people at school he's the smartest kid they've every had and he's very well behaved. I've honestly thought that she's been lying about it. But now I'm not so sure. I was amazed at his response to actual discipline as opposed to negotiation when I didn't back down. I do think my friend is a big part of this problem.
That being said, it really isn't my job to be responsible for disciplining him when we're together. I'm a grown up. I like to do grown up things. Having a dinner party defined by a child's melt down isn't my idea of a great time. Although after my friend went home my sister, daughter and future son-in-law all said they thought I was hilarious. They all wanted to applaud when dragged him up the stairs but couldn't do so in front of grandma. My daughter said she'd only seen that look on my face a few times growing up and that it didn't end well for her either.
Lately my friend doesn't mention that she has her grandson with her until after we make plans. So I think like it or not I'm going to have to be blunt with her about not wanting to see her if he's there. In a certain way I hope she was embarrassed by the other night. If it comes up I'm going to have to be honest with her.
I do not know what discipline issues Grandma has at home. However, in my experience, any child would display less than ideal behavior if he is bored and hungry in a strange place with unfamiliar food and one toy that he's not allowed to play with. If you do invite Grandma over again, remind her to bring along some toys and snacks!
maribeth
I don't find roasted potatoes, pot roast, carrots and green beans to be all that foreign. Even at restautants when he gets whatever he wants he throws food, both on the floor and at other people, looking you straight in the eye as he does it. I've watched him pour water on the floor just for kicks.
I didn't let him play with that one toy because it was a gift for my future grandson and he hadn't seen it yet. I intend to keep it at my house so he has something to play with when he visits. If it had already been opened I would have been happy to let him play with it. But this is not behaviour that's just "less than ideal". And it's consistent, whether we're at my friends house, in restaurants or anywhere else. Her own parents have issues when she brings him to their house as well. I guess I'm a little ticked off at my friend for blindsiding me at what was meant to be an evening with adults. I wouldn't do that to her.
How about something along the lines of: I really value our friendship and am so glad we are best friends. I find that I am missing the adult time we used to have together. I am wondering if there is a way we can get that time back, you know, with just the two of us meeting for dinner or a cup of tea? I know that your grandson is with you most of the weekend, but maybe the two of us could do some work to find a sitter to come sit with him while we run out for a couple hours?"
I'd focus more on the value of the friendship and your concern over not having adult time than on the behavior of her grandson.
Sorry -- I don't blame you at all for not letting him open your grandson's gift! I didn't mean to suggest it was your fault, just that the situation probably frustrated him and amplified his bad behavior. Bringing him to your house (especially without your advance knowledge) and not being prepared to feed and entertain him, is not fair to you or to him.
From your later post, it sounds like he has some real issues. If this is a really good friend, you might suggest she get some professional help dealing with this.
domestic goddess
4-11-11, 4:20pm
I don't blame you for not wanting to deal with this child's behavior. My dgds occasionally melt down and I don't handle it well, but I can usually pinpoint the problem, and then we can deal with that. Your friend's insistence on bringing him to adult gatherings, which are not really appropriate for a little one, shows a lack of forethought on her part. What does she think will happen with a single young child at an adult event?
If you do continue to see her, suggest that she allow (encourage) him to bring a small toy or a coloring book and crayons, so he will have something to do. If you are getting together late in the evening, or past his bedtime, then suggest that he be allowed to sleep in his own bed. 3-1/2 year olds often go to sleep earlier than adults eat at a dinner party. Maybe you can get together another time.
It is hard on a grandparent when a parent doesn't want to be bothered with a child. You feel like you need to make up for that but, of course, you really can't. Still, you try. But inflicting a child's bad behavior on others isn't the way to go. And he in undoubtedly aware on some level that the people around him aren't happy to see him, which will cause him to act out even more.
Grandma is going to have to decide how she will live her life. Even parents know they can't take small children everywhere, and Grandma should know that, too. I'm glad she is there for this needy little boy, but she deserves some adult time herself, and should be able to get out once in a while without him. She should start packing some small toys for him to entertain himself with, when she does have to take him with her. And she may have to start having his mother "mother" him. In fact, this is probably the place to start.
ETA: I do think Reyes has the right idea in focusing on the friendship, rather than on the boy's behavior. While I don't really think it is your job to come up with a sitter, if you want to spend time with this friend, this is what you may have to do, unless grandma knows someone who lives nearby who can sit. But take the focus off him for awhile (I think he would be relieved if he understood), and put it on your relationship, and how you would like for the 2 of you to have some adult time together.
chrisgermany
4-12-11, 4:39am
You gave a geat example for your friend on that evening but I also understand that you do not want to repeat the exercise.
(although I would not wonder if in your house the kid now behaves much better... just like he does in kindergarden...).
He seems to look for rules which granny and mommy do not provide.
I would try to tell my friend that she is not a bad mon or bad granny if she insists on having kid-free time, too.
You might actually be doing her a huge favor to say you want some adult time with just her, no kids allowed. She probably doesn't get a break very often.
But letting her bring him along with the understanding "my house my rules" once in awhile might be good for them both -- maybe if she sees repeated evidence that setting limits actually works with him, it will give her the courage to be more disciplined herself.
lhamo
Sad Eyed Lady
4-12-11, 9:17am
Lately my friend doesn't mention that she has her grandson with her until after we make plans.
If she is not mentioning that she has him until after plans are made she is probably aware of the situation and knows that he makes your time together less than enjoyable. Either that or she actually doesn't know she will have him and Mommy drops him off at the last minute not caring that her mother has plans!
To give some additional background, it has taken me a long time to reach this point with my friend because I understand why she's so willing to give this little boy everything he wants. His dad dropped dead on the living room floor when he was only 4 months old. My friend went into overdrive because her daughter mentally completely checked out of life for quite a while which is completely understandable. But 3 1/3 years later she's moved on to dating again, but not moved on enough to go back to being a mother. She's even dating someone in Atlanta and she lives in Chicago. It's perfect for her. In order to them to be together she has to fly to another state leaving the kids with Grandma.
I know my friend hurts for this little one. She doesn't want him to deal with any other rejection. She so badly wants to make up for her daughters rejection of him. But I think she equates discipline with rejection which is not the case. It's actually often the opposite.
I do agree that I need to make this about missing the girl talks, the laughs and the grown up fun with my friend and not about her grandson. Thanks everyone for sharing your wisdom.
Originally posted by Charity.
I finally excused myself from the table and marched to the sofa and told him to cut it out, that he was in my house, not his mother's house or grandma's house and that in my house children don't scream and throw fits. When he proceeded to keep screaming that I and his grandma were bothering him I picked him up by the wrists, and carried him upstairs to my bedroom put him on my bed and told him in no uncertain terms that he was to stay there and not utter a word. When he stopped yelling I turned on a cartoon for him and told him that he was not to come down unless he was asked for. Good on you!
I have a sort of funny update. I talked to my friend last night which was the first time since this incident. I told her that I hoped she wasn't upset with me for the way I handled her grandson. Her response was "Are you kidding me? No way! That was awesome!" She told me that when he got home he told his mom that he got put on time out at my house. His mom asked him if it he had been misbehaving, to which he thought for a second and responded "Yes. I was." She said "Good. Then you belonged on time out."
chrisgermany
4-14-11, 7:07am
Great story!
Sounds like your friend really needs some loving, solid, solution-finding support right now. And to be honest it doesn't sound like your friendship will go back to the good old days and will either need to evolve or it will just kind of die out.
What a relief that your intervention at the dinner party was welcomed and appreciated. Some good old fashioned You WILL Behave Young Man goes a long way! and sounds like your friend needed to see that in action.
Seems like she has issues with saying NO and that dreaded dinner party is case in point:
Couldn't say No to daughter, I already have plans can't take dgs tonight
Couldn't say No to you, Sorry I can't come I have dgs
Couldn't say No to dgs once she was there
And she's out of practice with young kids. I have a 3 yo and I travel with a few cherished items to keep her entertained when needed and if I was going to adult dinner party I'd have brought some movies. And I bring food I know will be a homerun when I can for a toddler.
Even the best behaved 3 year old can be a nightmare on any given occasion.
Here are some ideas that have crossed my mind:
- Help friend find a Grandparenting support group
Here's a chatboard
http://www.dailystrength.org/c/Grandparents-Raising-Children/support-group
Here's another website
http://www.grandparenting.org/
- Suggest she (and the mom) meet with dgs' Montessori teacher to discuss Montessori discipline methods and how they can set up their home more in the Montessori Way
Here's a link to an article:
http://www.montessori.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=230:the-montessori-approach-to-discipline&catid=27:articles-on-parenting-the-montessori-way&Itemid=42
from the article:
"What we commonly refer to as misbehavior is often the side effect when children feel insecure, and disempowered."
How could that little guy NOT feel insecure?
What a blessing that he's in a Montessori school (if it's a good one, he will flourish there - my kids did) and that he has a Grandmother to pick up his mom's slack.
- Do the footwork and see if there are any Church sponsored parents nights' out in the area. The last place I lived had several churches that offered great, loving care 1 night every month or so for a very low price. Maybe that could become your Girls' Night Out?
- If she really is never without the kid... maybe find activities you could do with them where the child will be entertained by others and you can sneak some visiting in. There are all kinds of cool kid things these days - indoor mall playgrounds, kid concerts, kid library things, kid festivals.
- And be clear when something you invite her to is Adults Only. Trying to help her find ways to have her Adults Only time too. You know she's got to miss it.
I bet your friend is feeling totally overwhelmed.
I have a soft spot for this subject. My mom was a terrible alcoholic and as her disease progressed, my dad's mom stepped in to pick up the pieces. She's the one that took me to all my activities, knew my friend's names, took me to church whenever the doors opened, made sure I had the "right" clothes (VERY important to a 'tween), etc. etc. etc. and etc. ad infinitum.....
I don't know what my sister and I would have done without her.
mtnlaurel, Thank you. Those are wonderful suggestions. I don't want our friendship to die out and I really want to find a way to make this situation livable. But I didn't want to come off as telling her what to do either. She has great respect for Montessori Schools and DGS is thriving in that environment. I'm sure she'd be very open to suggestions from them. Thank you for all the helpful links.
I'm glad to hear that your friend was OK with what happened. It really sounds like she has a pretty good handle on how badly the boy generally behaves, but can't/won't do anything about it.
And hearing the whole backstory, it does indeed sound like the mom checked out and hasn't checked back in fully. I've seen a few people do that, once the parenting/life situation gets really bad, and other people step in to help, they never fully pick those reins up again. Not sure why, but it's so hard to watch!
I agree that it may just be time for a little talk with your friend about how you're really wanting to see her in adults only settings, and if she presses, tell her that it's just miserable when the grandson is along. She already knows about him, she just doesn't know where you stand with the whole thing.
I would keep the conversation about needing to see her without the boy brief. Also, when any other plans come up, I would be direct about asking will it be just her. She has separation problems, as does the boy--I agree that hearing "no" can be a relief to her since she can't do it herself.
Charity,
Since you added more info, I wonder if you would consider being an extra support for the little fellow but just on certain occasions. Using some of the suggestions mentioned above about having childcare arrangements for a 'date night' for just you with your friend and then some things that you three can do together when you could have some more involvement with correction after talking about your need for behaviour boundaries to be followed in the contacts.
This whole thread has struck me as your friend needing support so badly in a difficult situation.
This is not to suggest that all contacts be a threesome but arrange some for the three of you so that you become his support as well.
Thanks Razz. I agree. My friend really does need support. I have to strike a balance between supporting her and getting back what I miss about our friendship. I think the good thing to come out of the "not in my house" incident was that I now know what works with this child. I read the Montessori School article posted earlier and it was a revelation. I completely by accident did exactly what he responds to in school. Knowing that, contact with him will be easier in the future.
That article really explained a great deal about his behaviour issues. The clean, orderly, beautiful and respectful environment that he is in all day at preschool is completely opposit of what he comes home to. His mom is for all intents and purposes a hoarder. You really have to move stuff to sit anywhere. And on top of that she just went for, and got, a promotion making her the head of international marketing......you guessed it.....more travel. Little wonder this kid clings to grandma. It's the only security he has when he comes home. Up until now I've been reluctant to intevene when he acts out because I didn't feel it was my place to do so. But I realize now that while I can't magically change the situation, I can make it more livable.
Sad Eyed Lady
4-15-11, 11:59am
Good for you Charity to be willing to do this. Yes, the right balance between supporting your friend and her grandson, and also having time for your own friendship is going to be key. So sad the little guy has such an unstable home environment, but letting him continue to act out and upset everyone in his vicinity is not a good thing to let go on. Maybe you are just the one to help the grandmother help him.
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