View Full Version : Clinton vs. Sanders
gimmethesimplelife
1-21-16, 10:16pm
Since we have had a Trump vs. Cruz thread I thought I'd bring up the other side of the aisle. Very surprisingly to me I'm feeling the Bern and hope he gets the Democratic nomination. He is that rarest of people - a politician I actually respect as a person instead of voting my social class and what I might get out of said politician being elected. Voting for Hillary for me would be more a vote to hope that what progress has been made for those of a lesser voice in America does not get repealed.
I have this level of respect for only two other politicians - Jose Mujica of Uruguay and Michele Bachelet of Chile. I'd still vote for Hillary were she nominated but not with the same enthusiasm I'd vote for Sanders with. How do I say this? Hillary Is no Michele Bachelet. Not even close. But to me better than Trump or Cruz if Clinton is the Democratic nominee. I'd prefer to vote for Sanders though - to me America should get the chance to experience a Jose Mujica or a Michele Bachelet. Rob
Williamsmith
1-22-16, 4:51am
I will not vote for Clinton. I don't know if I could vote for Sanders, I guess it depends on if Trump,is on the opposing ticket. Because I will not vote Trump either. Sanders is so far left....promising the moon, no plan to pay for it....where are the inspirational candidates ? I actually consider.....who will the next President appoint to the Supreme Court in the next four years? Clinton scares the begeebers out of me in that regard, so does Trump and Sanders and Cruz. It may well just be an Independent that nobody is talking about that gets my vote.
I continue to be amazed at how well Bernie is doing despite himself and despite what he's up against in terms of the Clinton Machine. Yesterday on the news they said he ahead in both Iowa and NH, and Hillary had to actually leave the campaign for a day to hustle more money--while Bernie seems to be doing fine with his millions of $27-on-the-average grassroots contributions (mine included). Democracy in action. I love it.
Plus I love his new campaign ad!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nwRiuh1Cug&feature=youtu.be
Ultralight
1-22-16, 6:47am
I am feelin' The Bern! But not enough to register and vote.
Chicken lady
1-22-16, 6:55am
May I ask why you are not registered to vote? Ohio needs you.
Ultralight
1-22-16, 7:26am
May I ask why you are not registered to vote? Ohio needs you.
1. I voted from 1998 to 2012. And things have only gotten worse.
2. There is no one worth voting for (though Bernie is close!)
3. I have things I'd rather do than vote. Like take a nap.
4. Our "democracy" is sort of a worthless piece of crap shat out by corporate overlords and power elites in the gubmint.
5. I have little hope for the future. Really...almost none.
6. When you go to the nearest Walmart and look around you'll think: "My god... all these ignoramuses can vote?" And you'll sink into a depression.
7. Everyone reminds me of that many people die for our right to vote. So by not voting I feel like maybe I can stop that bloodshed!
8. Spite.
9. To annoy liberals.
10. To lead conservatives into foolishly believing a vote I don't cast is as good as an extra one for their moronic candidates. It is like doing a magic trick for a monkey -- they really believe in it!
Need I say more?
Ohio doesn't need me. Ohioans, by and large, need to get their act together on an individual level.
I'm undoubtedly voting for Bernie. I'm tired of the old school traditional politicians and even though I am not crazy about all of Bernie's wealth redistribution plans, I have some strong feelings about disconnecting politics from wall street and Bernie is a start. I think he is honest and sincere, and I would trust him more than Hillary. As far left as he is, he will have to work some compromises with the conservatives and those compromises might meet somewhere within my own range of opinions. I also love the America commercial.
rodeosweetheart
1-22-16, 7:44am
Bernie , going to my first organizational event on Saturday and happy to work for him.
I decided on Sanders a long time ago. His message is much more in line with my beliefs - and it's one he's been basically pushing all along, not some magic makeover when he decided to run.
Bernie , going to my first organizational event on Saturday and happy to work for him.
I guess one of the awesome benefits of you being able to cut back on your work hours!
rodeosweetheart
1-22-16, 8:03am
That is very true, Catherine, and another side effect is that my blood pressure is down 50 points!!!
Williamsmith
1-22-16, 9:18am
Okay Catherine.....the Sanders Campagne Ad is genius....what baby boomer doesn't like Simon & Garfunkel? What his ad advisors have hit upon is also pure genius....Many who see and hear that ad go to YouTube to hear the full song and read lyrics. When they get there the comment section gives a complete breakdown of the Sanders tax proposal. The song is approaching 3 million hits on YouTube. So it's a popular destination.
There is also a crossover effect that I'm not sure the ad producers realize but Paul Simon evokes a connection to 9-11 when he played Sounds of Silence at the memorial. Lots of people connected with that song at that time and place. And one more thing......Clinton is as inspirational as raw oatmeal without milk,mhoney or cinnamon. I pray the machine breaks down and she is in trouble because I can't think of anyone who embodies the establishment cronyism more than her. She truly would be four more years.
If Bernie can win the nomination ...... maybe he deserves a vote.
Okay Catherine.....the Sanders Campagne Ad is genius....what baby boomer doesn't like Simon & Garfunkel? What his ad advisors have hit upon is also pure genius....Many who see and hear that ad go to YouTube to hear the full song and read lyrics. When they get there the comment section gives a complete breakdown of the Sanders tax proposal. The song is approaching 3 million hits on YouTube. So it's a popular destination.
There is also a crossover effect that I'm not sure the ad producers realize but Paul Simon evokes a connection to 9-11 when he played Sounds of Silence at the memorial. Lots of people connected with that song at that time and place. And one more thing......Clinton is as inspirational as raw oatmeal without milk,mhoney or cinnamon. I pray the machine breaks down and she is in trouble because I can't think of anyone who embodies the establishment cronyism more than her. She truly would be four more years.
If Bernie can win the nomination ...... maybe he deserves a vote.
Good points, Williamsmith--especially your analogy between Hill and raw oatmeal!
And that ad has no blah-blah-blah rhetoric, no bashing, just very aspirational/inspirational imagery. You're right--genius.
BTW, my kids are somewhere in that shot in the ad on Lake Champlain the day he announced his candidacy and 3 of my kids + DIL were there enthusiastically supporting him.
1. I voted from 1998 to 2012. And things have only gotten worse.
2. There is no one worth voting for (though Bernie is close!)
3. I have things I'd rather do than vote. Like take a nap.
4. Our "democracy" is sort of a worthless piece of crap shat out by corporate overlords and power elites in the gubmint.
5. I have little hope for the future. Really...almost none.
6. When you go to the nearest Walmart and look around you'll think: "My god... all these ignoramuses can vote?" And you'll sink into a depression.
7. Everyone reminds me of that many people die for our right to vote. So by not voting I feel like maybe I can stop that bloodshed!
8. Spite.
9. To annoy liberals.
10. To lead conservatives into foolishly believing a vote I don't cast is as good as an extra one for their moronic candidates. It is like doing a magic trick for a monkey -- they really believe in it!
Need I say more?
Ohio doesn't need me. Ohioans, by and large, need to get their act together on an individual level.
So you view irrelevance as a sort of moral high ground?
Ultralight
1-22-16, 9:57am
So you view irrelevance as a sort of moral high ground?
I dunno that I would say that.
Though I agree that I am irrelevant.
I dunno that I would say that.
Though I agree that I am irrelevant.
That's too bad. Even if I shared your views, I would still try to use my vote to move the needle a tiny bit in the right direction (if only by going for the least objectionable candidate).
Maybe it's my background. Our grade school catechism taught that despair is a sin. Also, I have to say that America has done well by me and that I in turn try to do well by America. While there may be much to criticize, I couldn't see holding myself above the fray. I think we all have a duty to try making things better for our fellow man. Even Wal-Mart shoppers.
Ultralight
1-22-16, 10:22am
That's too bad. Even if I shared your views, I would still try to use my vote to move the needle a tiny bit in the right direction (if only by going for the least objectionable candidate).
Maybe it's my background. Our grade school catechism taught that despair is a sin. Also, I have to say that America has done well by me and that I in turn try to do well by America. While there may be much to criticize, I couldn't see holding myself above the fray. I think we all have a duty to try making things better for our fellow man. Even Wal-Mart shoppers.
I grew up half-Catholic and went through those classes too. They got a sin for everything! And they sure do make you try to feel guilty about it.
Though I would not say I despair over my irrelevance. I kind of accept it, like I accept getting older. As the hipsters used to say: It is what it is.
Don't get me wrong, I try to make things better for others. I am very involved in my community.
catherine
1-22-16, 10:30am
That's too bad. Even if I shared your views, I would still try to use my vote to move the needle a tiny bit in the right direction (if only by going for the least objectionable candidate).
Maybe it's my background. Our grade school catechism taught that despair is a sin. Also, I have to say that America has done well by me and that I in turn try to do well by America. While there may be much to criticize, I couldn't see holding myself above the fray. I think we all have a duty to try making things better for our fellow man. Even Wal-Mart shoppers.
+1
UL, If you are familiar with Kant, you could invoke his ethical theory of Universizability*: what would happen if everyone decided not to vote? That would destroy the democracy we live in. And if all the Bernie supporters felt the way you do, there would be no hope for the good that Bernie could do.
*"an act is only permissible if one is willing for the maxim that allows the action to be a universal law by which everyone acts. Maxims fail this test if they produce either a contradiction in conception or a contradiction in the will when universalized. A contradiction in conception happens when, if a maxim were to be universalized, it ceases to make sense because the "...maxim would necessarily destroy itself as soon as it was made a universal law.").
Ultralight
1-22-16, 10:33am
UL, If you are familiar with Kant, you could invoke his ethical theory of Universizability*: what would happen if everyone decided not to vote? That would destroy the democracy we live in. And if all the Bernie supporters felt the way you do, there would be no hope for the good that Bernie could do.
I think our democracy is already destroyed.
catherine
1-22-16, 10:37am
I think our democracy is already destroyed.
No, it's not. Maybe a little sedated, but not destroyed. Let's wake it up!
Ultralight
1-22-16, 10:38am
No, it's not. Maybe a little sedated, but not destroyed. Let's wake it up!
Sorry... Meh... :treadmill:
I wouldn't see voting as a sort of categorical imperative. I wouldn't, for instance, support compulsory voting as practiced in some countries. But I do see a positive individual duty to make things better, at least "as God gives us to see the right". I just don't see American democracy as lost beyond redemption. It has survived much worse than the likes of Trump and Sanders.
catherine
1-22-16, 10:48am
I wouldn't see voting as a sort of categorical imperative. I wouldn't, for instance, support compulsory voting as practiced in some countries. No, I don't see it at all as a categorical imperative, either. And I also believe in the power of the people to right the ship.
No, I don't see it at all as a categorical imperative, either. And I also believe in the power of the people to right the ship.
I absolutely agree with you. The idea of America is larger than our individual ideologies or petty interests.
Ultralight
1-22-16, 11:00am
I absolutely agree with you. The idea of America is larger than our individual ideologies or petty interests.
What is the idea of America?
Though I agree that I am irrelevant.
Of course you're irrelevant. You don't use facebook...
Ultralight
1-22-16, 11:13am
Of course you're irrelevant. You don't use facebook...
!thumbsup!
The media does a grand job of convincing us that everything is skewed and corrupt so I believe it's how one chooses to see and interpret things. I imagine if we all spent a bit of time in a place like North Korea we would appreciate the freedoms we do have. I would hate to live out my time on this planet feeling irrelevant so I will vote - for someone yet TBD.
I like Bernie. He and Hillary are better than Trump in my opinion. But, I am stuck in TN where my vote does not count..........
Outnumbered by the gun carrying, redneck, ultra right majority. My husbands workplace, all men, are jumping and saying Trump will win.
Ultralight
1-22-16, 11:20am
...Trump will win.
:)
iris lilies
1-22-16, 11:22am
It's quaint that voters see only the national picture, view themselves as too insignificant to affect it, and withdraw from the democratic process.
What about local elections? While its possible I won't vote for a Presidential candidate, I certainly will vote in that election. There are many elections determined by a handful of votes.
One of my friends is a "Political junkie" who favors no tax/low tax options, and while she can pontificate about Trumps and Hillarys, she did not vote in the last election that had one single issue on it: a general city tax increase. Fail.
Ultralight
1-22-16, 11:28am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIraCchPDhk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIraCchPDhk
Being dead, I'll bet he does in Chicago.
What is the idea of America?
It's a bunch of average people going to average jobs or to school and then, in the evening, going to support a political candidate who cares about people like them.
But seriously, the reason that that ad resonates is because America IS mostly a whole lot of average people leading average lives who feel like the politicians don't pay attention to them because they don't have millions of dollars to spend on donations and lobbying.
Ultralight
1-22-16, 11:39am
...America IS mostly a whole lot of average people leading average lives who feel like the politicians don't pay attention to them because they don't have millions of dollars to spend on donations and lobbying.
Dystopian.
Dystopian.
True. And whether Bernie would be able to change that is debatable. But one of the biggest powers the president has is to guide the public conversation and I, for one, am convinced that he won't change his tune if he gets elected.
Ultralight
1-22-16, 11:45am
True. And whether Bernie would be able to change that is debatable. But one of the biggest powers the president has is to guide the public conversation and I, for one, am convinced that he won't change his tune if he gets elected.
Bernie is a good man, no doubt.
ApatheticNoMore
1-22-16, 11:50am
I really doubt "it is what it is" orginated with hipsters, as I've heard it in a corporate context as long as I've been working. My guess of how it originated is technical types have a solution they like for their reasons, but can't get management buy in, hence: yes the real way to solve this is x, but it's never going to happen, it is what it is .... The thing is I've never heard the phrase more than in corporate America, later I started to see it migrate outside of there but ...
What is the idea of America?
The American idea originated with the brilliantly cynical concept that power should be turned against power and interest against interest to achieve a favorable result. That a nation can be constructed from a collection of Enlightenment ideals rather than blood ties and geography. That we can rule ourselves through a set of laws with built-in constraints on centralized power that we can alter only with difficulty and by mutual consent. That when would-be autarchs promising "hope and change" or inchoate "greatness" can fool most of the people some of the time, but then be thwarted by checks and balances from "getting things done".
Ultralight
1-22-16, 11:53am
The American idea originated with the brilliantly cynical concept that power should be turned against power and interest against interest to achieve a favorable result. That a nation can be constructed from a collection of Enlightenment ideals rather than blood ties and geography. That we can rule ourselves through a set of laws with built-in constraints on centralized power that we can alter only with difficulty and by mutual consent. That when would-be autarchs promising "hope and change" or inchoate "greatness" can fool most of the people some of the time, but then be thwarted by checks and balances from "getting things done".
Tell that to Howie Zinn!
Tell that to Howie Zinn!
You can't talk to conspiracy theorists. Especially dead ones.
catherine
1-22-16, 11:59am
I like Bernie. He and Hillary are better than Trump in my opinion. But, I am stuck in TN where my vote does not count..........
In every election, my husband and I walk through the park behind our house to the elementary school where we sign our names and then proceed to cancel each other's votes out. We know that we are doing that, but we don't say, "shoot, we might as well just stay home." I just feel that my voting is a way of being part of the extended community, and whatever little action I can take to make my little voice heard, I'm taking it.
Ultralight
1-22-16, 12:19pm
In every election, my husband and I walk through the park behind our house to the elementary school where we sign our names and then proceed to cancel each other's votes out. We know that we are doing that, but we don't say, "shoot, we might as well just stay home." I just feel that my voting is a way of being part of the extended community, and whatever little action I can take to make my little voice heard, I'm taking it.
Tell him you both should stay home this year. He'll agree. Then act like you're going to brush your teeth. Climb out the bathroom window, go vote, then climb back in the bathroom window.
You win! :)
catherine
1-22-16, 12:31pm
Tell him you both should stay home this year. He'll agree. Then act like you're going to brush your teeth. Climb out the bathroom window, go vote, then climb back in the bathroom window.
You win! :)
haha! I like that idea!
:)
you think that is funny? They told me a vote for Hillary is a vote for the devil..........
I will vote however I please.
Ultralight
1-22-16, 1:54pm
They told me a vote for Hillary is a vote for the devil.
I would agree it is.
I wouldn't see voting as a sort of categorical imperative. I wouldn't, for instance, support compulsory voting as practiced in some countries.
I think you can just as easily construct reasonable ethics-based arguments for *not* voting, in many sorts of elections.
Ultralight
1-22-16, 2:05pm
I think you can just as easily construct reasonable ethics-based arguments for *not* voting, in many sorts of elections.
:+1:
I think you can just as easily construct reasonable ethics-based arguments for *not* voting, in many sorts of elections.
That's true enough. I just don't think those circumstances apply in this country.
ApatheticNoMore
1-22-16, 3:01pm
I don't particularly see them as applying to Bernie Sanders (reasons not to vote), although I do kind of think anyone who can win will have to have taken so much money at that point that they will have to be corrupt by that point. Oh I never said Bernie was corrupt now, I said keep a careful eye on where the money is coming from.
gimmethesimplelife
1-22-16, 3:34pm
I continue to be amazed at how well Bernie is doing despite himself and despite what he's up against in terms of the Clinton Machine. Yesterday on the news they said he ahead in both Iowa and NH, and Hillary had to actually leave the campaign for a day to hustle more money--while Bernie seems to be doing fine with his millions of $27-on-the-average grassroots contributions (mine included). Democracy in action. I love it.
Plus I love his new campaign ad!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nwRiuh1Cug&feature=youtu.beI love the ad, too. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
1-22-16, 3:39pm
I continue to be amazed at how well Bernie is doing despite himself and despite what he's up against in terms of the Clinton Machine. Yesterday on the news they said he ahead in both Iowa and NH, and Hillary had to actually leave the campaign for a day to hustle more money--while Bernie seems to be doing fine with his millions of $27-on-the-average grassroots contributions (mine included). Democracy i
[QUOTE=rodeosweetheart;229338]Bernie , going to my first organizational event on Saturday and happy to work for him.You know RS, if I can squeeze it in I might just volunteer for Bernie myself. Rob
I love the ad, too. Rob
So do I. It evokes a nice feeling that isn't interrupted by empty campaign promises. The only fault I might find is that they misspelled Amerika.
Ultralight
1-22-16, 3:43pm
So do I. It evokes a nice feeling that isn't interrupted by empty campaign promises. The only fault I might find is that they misspelled Amerika.
So did you. There are three capital K's in there. ;)
Gardenarian
1-22-16, 3:48pm
I'm voting for Clinton.
Williamsmith
1-22-16, 3:58pm
I'm voting for Clinton.
Why?
Why?
My cousin, in all seriousness, told me "because it's her turn!".
Williamsmith
1-22-16, 4:05pm
My cousin, in all seriousness, told me "because it's her turn!".
Believe it or not, that reason is probably as valid as any other reason that could be proposed regarding her fitness for the job. IMHO .......or my arrogant white male privileged bias.
Ultralight
1-22-16, 4:09pm
Believe it or not, that reason is probably as valid as any other reason that could be proposed regarding her fitness for the job. IMHO .......or my arrogant white male privileged bias.
If you think about it in the long term Billary being prez could be one of the the best things to ever happen for straight white dudes in this country.
After she does a term or two the straight white dudes can say: "Looky here minorities! You had your black president. You had your female president. Now we need to get back to business as usual and get things done!"
... the straight white dudes can say: "
http://reenactor.net/reppledepple/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/there-u-go.jpg
http://reenactor.net/reppledepple/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/there-u-go.jpg
You read my mind!
Strawmen have to be the lowest form of polemic.
iris lilies
1-22-16, 5:16pm
My cousin, in all seriousness, told me "because it's her turn!".
It's that sentiment and "its time we have a woman!" that make me crazed.
The Storyteller
1-22-16, 5:45pm
I like Hilary but I'm a socialist so I'll be voting for Bernie. Just thrilled he's even in the race and garnering so much support. But I won't be disappointed if he isn't the nominee.
The Storyteller
1-22-16, 5:47pm
And that, boys and girls, will be my only contribution to this discussion. :)
The Storyteller
1-22-16, 5:48pm
Wait... no, that will.
I mean this will.
Teacher Terry
1-23-16, 2:49pm
I will vote for whoever wins the democratic nomination. So my hubby is republican and when we first met I always voted and he was hit or miss. I then told him I never miss voting and his opinion didn't count since he didn't always vote. Well that pissed him off and he started voting every time. So then when we were both working I would vote on way home and not remind him to vote. He started to remember on his own. Now that we are retired we go together and cancel each other out. I feel it is our duty in this free country to vote in every election and we do-both big and small. I never take this right for granted but I do not believe it should be mandatory either since that would not be freedom. The last righteous wars were the 2 WW wars and so many sacrificed everything. My Grandpa was in the first and my Dad and other family members in the 2nd and survived. They were the lucky ones.
I then told him I never miss voting and his opinion didn't count since he didn't always vote. ... I feel it is our duty in this free country to vote in every election...
The "if you don't vote, you don't get to have an opinion" line of thinking seems quite simplistic to me. Sometimes participation in the system is the wrong thing to do, and not a "duty". Deciding not to vote and not to participate in selecting which evil will be unleashed on your fellow citizens does not strip you of your "right" to have an opinion, to speak out, and to struggle against oppression.
http://sadmoment.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Sheep-On-Voting-For-a-Lion-Or-a-Wolf-On-Election-Day.jpg
Teacher Terry
1-23-16, 5:04pm
WEll it is pretty funny since it got him voting now for years. Yes, I believe we all have a duty to vote-much blood was shed to give us this right among others. YOu can believe whatever you want. I don't care.
I think Bernie is great. I've donated to his campaign, and I'll vote for him in my state primary if it's still a contest by then (and it's looking more and more like it will be). I don't think there's been a major politician in my lifetime whose ideology is more congruent with my own. I do worry a little about the electability issue, but I think he's worth the risk.
However, I will certainly vote for the Dem candidate whoever it is. I like Hillary, and I don't really understand why some Dems don't. She's a progressive pragmatic incrementalist, much like Obama. There are worse things to be. Notwithstanding the continued hysterical attacks on her character by the right wing noise machine, she's less corrupt than most politicians at the national level. They've thrown everything they can at her for a quarter century and she's still standing. She's tough, that's for sure. I was especially impressed with her performance at her appearance before that ridiculous Benghazi committee, when those hacks badgered her for an entire day, trying to get her to lose her cool and give them a soundbite they could use in attack ads. Their motives couldn't have been more transparent, but she took everything they threw at her and didn't turn a hair. That showed real moxie, IMO.
Williamsmith
1-23-16, 7:06pm
""What difference – at this point, what difference does it make?"
The "if you don't vote, you don't get to have an opinion" line of thinking seems quite simplistic to me. Sometimes participation in the system is the wrong thing to do, and not a "duty". Deciding not to vote and not to participate in selecting which evil will be unleashed on your fellow citizens does not strip you of your "right" to have an opinion, to speak out, and to struggle against oppression.
“It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see..."
"You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?"
"No," said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, "nothing so simple. Nothing anything like so straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."
"Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."
"I did," said Ford. "It is."
"So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't people get rid of the lizards?"
"It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want."
"You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"
"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."
"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"
"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in. Got any gin?"
rodeosweetheart
1-24-16, 10:46am
Is there another forum/debate scheduled for tomorrow night for the dem candidates? I saw something about this online but heard nothing about it prior to today,a nd heard nothing about it at the Sanders rally last night.
Does anyone know about a Monday forum sponsored by CNN?
I am really excited for Bernie. I started out thinking that it was just my idealistic leanings that gave me any hope that he would get very far, but wow! I think most of my kids are comfortable with him. I am still in awe that this grassroots movement has kept going so strong. There are other candidates having to answer some questions that have been blown off for years, so he is having a huge affect. I know my mom in Iowa likes Hillary better, she has always like Hillary, but if Hillary gets it I will vote for her. My kids are really aware of the tax inequity and that will drive their and others in their generations votes. Also none of my kids or their friends understands the Planned Parenthood backlash at all.
I agree with someone who said the local votes have a huge impact as well, more than national elections at times. I am going to start looking at those as well. Another reason to vote even if you get cancelled out is to show which generation has high voter turn outs. This can influence overall, if the politicians know a certain group is voting in high numbers then they pay attention to some of those concerns. I am relating to the millennial bashing by being a Gen X'er, we have had good voter turn out in our generation and I would like to support younger voters as well.
I always thought of the "I don't vote because the system is corrupt and doesn't produce candidates I like" view to have a sort of petulant take-my-ball-and-go-home quality. Even if you're right, it is at worst a minor waste of time. It seems to me if you can't detect the differences in the current collection of candidates, you simply haven't been paying attention.
I see not voting as a legitimate form of protest. Its not effective and won't accomplish the desired result, but it helps some people feel as though they've made a statement. FDR said,
Nobody will ever deprive the American people of the right to vote except the American people themselves and the only way they could do this is by not voting.
That sounds about right.
rodeosweetheart
1-25-16, 11:18am
For years I voted for Ralph Nadar in every presidential election.
You can always choose a write in candidate, if you cannot bring yourself in good conscience to vote for any of the names on the ballot.
Last time I voted for Ron Paul.
I am nothing if not eclectic.
rosarugosa
1-25-16, 5:01pm
Creaker: I often feel like Arthur Dent wandering a perplexing universe. That seemed to sum things up quite nicely! :)
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