View Full Version : Student loan mayhem!
Ultralight
1-26-16, 7:39am
My income-based repayment per month: $346.
Without income-based repayment I'd have to shell out $1,596 per month!
WHOA!!! I only make $2,500 a month!
Didn't you disclose recently that you'd borrowed something like $170,000? You did know you'd have to pay it back didn't you?
Ultralight
1-26-16, 8:12am
Didn't you disclose recently that you'd borrowed something like $170,000? You did know you'd have to pay it back didn't you?
Oh I am paying it back alright! I am a full-time loan drone!
Teacher Terry
1-26-16, 1:47pm
I doubt 2 degrees cost that much. I am guessing you used it to live-didn't work, etc and lived a great life. I have known a few people that did this and then it was a shock to them they had to pay large loan amounts.
Ultralight
1-26-16, 1:51pm
I doubt 2 degrees cost that much. I am guessing you used it to live-didn't work, etc and lived a great life. I have known a few people that did this and then it was a shock to them they had to pay large loan amounts.
3 degrees -- BS, MA, MLIS.
Teacher Terry
1-26-16, 1:55pm
What was your major in each of these? I have 4 degrees that I paid for as I went and together they total nowhere near that.
iris lilies
1-26-16, 2:08pm
I made this post in March 2013:
Cost of my Graduate Degree today
Given all of the other chat on the other thread about college costs, I was curious to know how much my graduate degree would cost today. Here it is:
Cost of My Graduate Degree Today: requires 42 semester hours
Tuition $15,564
Books ? $2,500 ?
_________________
Total $18,064
This is the cost of my degree at today’s rates. One could always spend more, however. My estimate for books may be low.
I doubt 2 degrees cost that much.
Tuition, room, and board at my daughter's university run about $60k/year with misc expenses. So the 4-year program will end up costing about $250k, for a BA degree in a field (medieval studies) that pays very little, even once you have your Ph.D.
Ultralight
1-26-16, 2:12pm
What was your major in each of these? I have 4 degrees that I paid for as I went and together they total nowhere near that.
BS in Interdisciplinary Studies
MA in American Studies
MLIS is Library and Information Studies
Ultralight
1-26-16, 2:13pm
medieval studies
Ooh, interesting field!!!
iris lilies
1-26-16, 2:15pm
I made the post after hearing someone my age on ithis site, talk about a masters degree debt of $50,000. That seemed excessive to me considering that she had someplace to live.
But In UL's favor, the cost of an undergrad degree at our state university if not living with with parents is $25,000 annually, so that degree costs $100,000. That cost is listed on the top page of U of MO website.
Ooh, interesting field!!!
Yes, though extremely unlikely to ever throw off enough income to pay for the necessary education :-(
My suggestion that she minor in petroleum engineering didn't go over well :-)
Ultralight
1-26-16, 2:22pm
Yes, though extremely unlikely to ever throw off enough income to pay for the necessary education :-(
My suggestion that she minor in petroleum engineering didn't go over well :-)
I think it is very cool that you support her still. :)
I bet she finds her way to a good job either way.
Teacher Terry
1-26-16, 2:55pm
You can take your first 2 years of undergraduate at a community college and save lots of $. If you have good grades you can usually get most of your Master's degree paid for by working as a TA for the college. I would certainly not pay $ for any of my kids to go to college for a degree that you know will not yield a job. Unless you are going to medical school or or going to become a lawyer that amount of $ is ridiculous.
Ultralight
1-26-16, 2:56pm
You can take your first 2 years of undergraduate at a community college and save lots of $. If you have good grades you can usually get most of your Master's degree paid for by working as a TA for the college. I would certainly not pay $ for any of my kids to go to college for a degree that you know will not yield a job. Unless you are going to medical school or or going to become a lawyer that amount of $ is ridiculous.
It is too late for me. I am a loan drone!
Williamsmith
1-26-16, 3:02pm
I feel very fortunate....
My oldest spent $4000 for vocational training in tool and die making. He's been employed ever since.
My middle got an accounting degree......works for the state auditing banks. She has paid off her share of student loans.
My youngest got a degree in Sports Management....... He works for a national food service company and is in charge of MinuteMaid Park Houston Astros and the University of Houston. Paying off student debt will take a few years.
None of this liberal arts stuff for us.
Ultralight
1-26-16, 3:03pm
None of this liberal arts stuff for us.
Liberal arts is good for the mind, but not for making money.
Teacher Terry
1-26-16, 3:37pm
I think it ends up being bad for the mind when your can't afford your loans.
I would certainly not pay $ for any of my kids to go to college for a degree that you know will not yield a job. Unless you are going to medical school or or going to become a lawyer that amount of $ is ridiculous.
There are some realms of human knowledge that would be unpopulated by researchers if "yielding a job" or "making $$$" were the standard.
Now, if I were a kid starting off, with no support, would I launch into a career path where I'd have hundreds of thousands of dollars invested before I got my first $30k/year post-doc job digging up old manuscripts? Probably not.
I hope I can squeak by on my associate's degree for the next 8 years or so. I don't think my total outlay was over $2500 - and I got a small Pell Grant to cover part of that. I moved back in with my parents for a part of it (paid small amount for rent), but I came out of school debt free.
On the other hand I'm still paying down debt I took on when one of my daughters went to school, but only about $8k left.
Seem like if you cast your net further within the MLIS world, you could find a higher salary than what you mentioned in another post to help buffet the monthly loan expenses. We have a neighbor who is a law librarian and makes a tidy salary; perhaps that's a very specialized field though.
iris lilies
1-26-16, 8:28pm
Seem like if you cast your net further within the MLIS world, you could find a higher salary than what you mentioned in another post to help buffet the monthly loan expenses. We have a neighbor who is a law librarian and makes a tidy salary; perhaps that's a very specialized field though.
Law librarian, a good gig if you can get it.
My friend just retired from a law practice where she was in charge of Information Services at a law firm that went national, so she was in charge of multiple library offices. Good salary ensued.
Across the street from us is a young lady who interviewed with above friend, didnt get the job, went on to a job in a law school library. Director of library retired, young lady in right place at right time, appointed Director. Good salary ensued.
This reminds me of one time I was an effective mentor. I was in my first job in a public library and we had a very smart high school kid who was a shelver. I mean he could do reference work, he was so good. He wanted to go to law school and I told him " hey, there are a lot of attorneys out there, why don't you consider going to Library school. " He went to law school, found that there were a lot of attorneys out there, he picked up a library degree and had a great career path as Director of law school libraries. Good salary ensued.
Edited to add: pinkytoe, I just looked up my mentoree and found that he was in Austin for most of his career at the State Law library. I havent thought about him for years.
Yes, though extremely unlikely to ever throw off enough income to pay for the necessary education :-(
My suggestion that she minor in petroleum engineering didn't go over well :-)
I know several excellent archivists with degrees in history. They have an appreciation for historical artifacts and data that gives them an edge in the preservation field, IMO. Might be a career option.
I worked as a Graduate Teaching Fellow (GTF) during my graduate studies. Payment was small monthly stipend, full health benefits, and free tuition. I didn't have to pay a dime (which was good since I was committed to not paying for the degree).
Williamsmith
1-27-16, 6:01am
What I have understood is that UA has adopted a lifestyle that does not eschew higher salary or ambition. Even if he did it would cause him to report it to the fed loan program and he would have to pay back more of the principle on all those loans. This way he maximizes his forgiveness.
A good example of how social programs trap people. Now if you figure in the over one hundred thousand dollars he will,be forgiven after ten years and figure that he didn't have to work an hour for that compensation........why would he look for a better salary in a field he's been highly educated in? Perhaps there is an explanation for all these highly educated people flipping hamburgers at Mickey Ds.
I tip my hat.......
The guy in this article also found himself a couple of hundred $K in debt for college and grad school. Unlike the OP, he seems to blame his parents, his schools, the government and society in general for his problems. Everyone except himself. Can you make a guess as to the career such an ethically blind person would choose?
http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2016/01/student_loan_crisis_at_its_ugliest_i_graduated_and _found_out_i_owe_200_000.html
My income-based repayment per month: $346.
Without income-based repayment I'd have to shell out $1,596 per month!
WHOA!!! I only make $2,500 a month!
If it's any consolation, a financial analyst might say you really make $3,750 per month (your monthly payment being reduced by $1,250), plus some discounted net present value of the debt that will be eliminated from your balance sheet at the end of the forgiveness period.
Without considering taxes, and depending on the discount rate that was appropriate, a rational actor would probably need to earn something in excess of double your current salary to leave your present job for one that doesn't offer loan forgiveness. In the corporate world, they might refer to that as "golden handcuffs".
Ultralight
1-27-16, 9:19am
If it's any consolation, a financial analyst might say you really make $3,750 per month (your monthly payment being reduced by $1,250), plus some discounted net present value of the debt that will be eliminated from your balance sheet at the end of the forgiveness period.
Without considering taxes, and depending on the discount rate that was appropriate, a rational actor would probably need to earn something in excess of double your current salary to leave your present job for one that doesn't offer loan forgiveness. In the corporate world, they might refer to that as "golden handcuffs".
I appreciate this info! Interesting angle to think from. :)
Yup.. if you finance your whole ride you can definitely spend $170,000 for room and board, and not on the Cadillac plan either. My DD went to a private liberal arts university. I cash flowed two years because our FAFSA was favorable with two other kids in a State university, but once they graduated, my daughter's contribution skyrocketed, and I wound up taking loans out for about one year's worth of room and board (~$45k), which we are still paying off. Student loans are bad enough but I hate hate hate the idea of deferred principal/interest only for the first few years. Talk about feeling like you're running a treadmill! With better judgement, I would have restructured that loan.
I appreciate this info! Interesting angle to think from. :)
Hope it helps. Net-net, you don't have a loan drone problem. You have a CEOish constraint on positional mobility.
I myself am in a way locked into about two more years in my current position unless I want to leave a good amount of pension money on the table. I'll grant you it's more a carrot than a stick scenario, and there may be more to life than value maximization, but I can't help but feel a little trapped sometimes.
iris lilies
1-27-16, 9:48am
The guy in this article also found himself a couple of hundred $K in debt for college and grad school. Unlike the OP, he seems to blame his parents, his schools, the government and society in general for his problems. Everyone except himself. Can you make a guess as to the career such an ethically blind person would choose?
http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2016/01/student_loan_crisis_at_its_ugliest_i_graduated_and _found_out_i_owe_200_000.html
OMG who is the "steve" who co-signed this guy's new set of loans? Who would be so stupid these days as to -co-sign student loans to the tune of $190,000 when the applicant has made little progress in paying them down?
Edited to add: the "steve" in this article is the author's friend.
There is no hope for this generation.
Get off my lawn.
Ultralight
1-27-16, 9:48am
Hope it helps. Net-net, you don't have a loan drone problem. You have a CEOish constraint on positional mobility.
I myself am in a way locked into about two more years in my current position unless I want to leave a good amount of pension money on the table. I'll grant you it's more a carrot than a stick scenario, and there may be more to life than value maximization, but I can't help but feel a little trapped sometimes.
You can do two more years standing on your head.
I still have 8.5 more years in my sentence! haha
There is no hope for this generation.
Get off my lawn.
Didn't Plato say something like that?
catherine
1-27-16, 12:16pm
What I have understood is that UA has adopted a lifestyle that does not eschew higher salary or ambition. Even if he did it would cause him to report it to the fed loan program and he would have to pay back more of the principle on all those loans. This way he maximizes his forgiveness.
A good example of how social programs trap people. Now if you figure in the over one hundred thousand dollars he will,be forgiven after ten years and figure that he didn't have to work an hour for that compensation........why would he look for a better salary in a field he's been highly educated in? Perhaps there is an explanation for all these highly educated people flipping hamburgers at Mickey Ds.
I tip my hat.......
A lot of government positions have loan forgiveness programs, and you make an interesting point. My son is a very, very financially responsible person who makes an extremely modest living in VT as a community college student advisor. He is obsessive about paying his bills on time, he owns his own home, and he lives within his means.
So I had talked to him about Dave Ramsey in the past and the beauty of not falling into debt, and he bought it all.. with one exception. He felt it was stupid to pay off his student loans because his job gave him loan forgiveness after 10 years. So rather than paying full boat, but saving some interest if he paid it off early, he has chosen, with some fiscal good sense, to wind up overall saving money knowing the government will cover a few thousand bucks at the end of the day.
That disappointed me somehow, that the system was set up in favor of keeping him in debt, and incentivizing him to pay back less than he borrowed.
If it's any consolation, a financial analyst might say you really make $3,750 per month (your monthly payment being reduced by $1,250), plus some discounted net present value of the debt that will be eliminated from your balance sheet at the end of the forgiveness period.
Without considering taxes, and depending on the discount rate that was appropriate, a rational actor would probably need to earn something in excess of double your current salary to leave your present job for one that doesn't offer loan forgiveness. In the corporate world, they might refer to that as "golden handcuffs".
And if one extrapolates this out to the potentially millions of people who have a student loan golden handcuff but is not in a loan forgiveness program one could consider that this is possibly a societal problem because it prevents many/most of them from quiting their corporate soul sucking job to pursue their great entrepreneurial idea of perhaps a breakthrough in battery technology or medical technology or whatever. Maybe we need to be looking for a better way to finance higher education than loans. Or at least a different way of how we require repayment such as a flat percentage of income until paid off, regardless of what that income is.
Ultralight
1-27-16, 12:35pm
And if one extrapolates this out to the potentially millions of people who have a student loan golden handcuff but is not in a loan forgiveness program one could consider that this is possibly a societal problem because it prevents many/most of them from quiting their corporate soul sucking job to pursue their great entrepreneurial idea of perhaps a breakthrough in battery technology or medical technology or whatever. Maybe we need to be looking for a better way to finance higher education than loans. Or at least a different way of how we require repayment such as a flat percentage of income until paid off, regardless of what that income is.
Don't worry about me! I have no entrepreneurial spirit and I am a Luddite. ;)
Williamsmith
1-27-16, 12:36pm
There was this new idea of paying cash as you go........never mind, that will never work.
Ultralight
1-27-16, 12:41pm
There was this new idea of paying cash as you go........never mind, that will never work.
Gotta have cash as you go to pay it as you go.
There is no hope for this generation.
Get off my lawn.
Didn't Plato say something like that?
Thanks for my giggle of the day. :~)
Get off my piazza? I don't think they had lawns...
Get off my piazza? I don't think they had lawns...
I don't think Plato got outside much...
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/Plato_-_Allegory_of_the_Cave.png
I tried to substantiate my claim, but all I found was:
"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise [disrespectful] and impatient of restraint".
(Hesiod, 8th century BC)
and
They [Young People] have exalted notions, because they have not been humbled by life or learned its necessary limitations; moreover, their hopeful disposition makes them think themselves equal to great things -- and that means having exalted notions. They would always rather do noble deeds than useful ones: Their lives are regulated more by moral feeling than by reasoning -- all their mistakes are in the direction of doing things excessively and vehemently. They overdo everything -- they love too much, hate too much, and the same with everything else.
(Aristotle)
iris lilies
1-27-16, 2:19pm
I tried to substantiate my claim, but all I found was:
"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise [disrespectful] and impatient of restraint".
(Hesiod, 8th century BC)
and
They [Young People] have exalted notions, because they have not been humbled by life or learned its necessary limitations; moreover, their hopeful disposition makes them think themselves equal to great things -- and that means having exalted notions. They would always rather do noble deeds than useful ones: Their lives are regulated more by moral feeling than by reasoning -- all their mistakes are in the direction of doing things excessively and vehemently. They overdo everything -- they love too much, hate too much, and the same with everything else.
(Aristotle)
Ah, it was probably Ari you were thinkng of.
Ah, it was probably Ari you were thinkng of.
I always mix those two up. Probably because we were all in the same geometry class back in high school.
Or at least a different way of how we require repayment such as a flat percentage of income until paid off, regardless of what that income is.
I've seen proposals for securitizing student loans in just that way. Some have claimed the administrative costs would make it infeasible. Some have criticized it as a form of sharecropping. Others have asked if they could short philosophy majors.
I think the idea has merit myself.
I tried to substantiate my claim, but all I found was:
"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise [disrespectful] and impatient of restraint".
(Hesiod, 8th century BC)
and
They [Young People] have exalted notions, because they have not been humbled by life or learned its necessary limitations; moreover, their hopeful disposition makes them think themselves equal to great things -- and that means having exalted notions. They would always rather do noble deeds than useful ones: Their lives are regulated more by moral feeling than by reasoning -- all their mistakes are in the direction of doing things excessively and vehemently. They overdo everything -- they love too much, hate too much, and the same with everything else.
(Aristotle)
For some reason, I thought you were referencing:
"He was a wise man who invented beer" ~ Plato
I've seen proposals for securitizing student loans in just that way. Some have claimed the administrative costs would make it infeasible. Some have criticized it as a form of sharecropping. Others have asked if they could short philosophy majors.
I think the idea has merit myself.
Run it as a government program instead of bank profit center and then require employers to document whether one has a student loan at the time of hire and if yes withhold the requisite percentage the same as they do taxes and social security. I realize there are people (bankers primarily who would flip out at the lost revenue stream), but this would seem to solve the share cropping and administrative difficulty issues. And it would solve the issue of people getting behind on their payments.
Run it as a government program instead of bank profit center and then require employers to document whether one has a student loan at the time of hire and if yes withhold the requisite percentage the same as they do taxes and social security. I realize there are people (bankers primarily who would flip out at the lost revenue stream), but this would seem to solve the share cropping and administrative difficulty issues. And it would solve the issue of people getting behind on their payments.
I'd reject creating more bureaucracy in favor of a market solution. I'd like to see it more as a a sort of preferred stock arrangement with some similarities to a reverse mortgage. Investors could buy and sell equity stakes in the borrowers' earnings. One benefit of that approach would be information. Over time, you'd be able to see the objective market value of various schools and degrees. If a BU accounting major traded at a discount to a BC accounting major, that might be more useful to prospective students than some US News & World Report survey. University administrators might eventually be forced to consider how their students would fare post-graduation.
Here's an article about some librarians using their research skills in a business environment:
http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/news/2016/01/28/how-3-austin-librarians-are-becoming-major-players.htm
I'd reject creating more bureaucracy in favor of a market solution. I'd like to see it more as a a sort of preferred stock arrangement with some similarities to a reverse mortgage. Investors could buy and sell equity stakes in the borrowers' earnings. One benefit of that approach would be information. Over time, you'd be able to see the objective market value of various schools and degrees. If a BU accounting major traded at a discount to a BC accounting major, that might be more useful to prospective students than some US News & World Report survey. University administrators might eventually be forced to consider how their students would fare post-graduation.
And this is where you and I differ. I read your proposal and to me it screams 'subprime loan crisis v 2.0, how to let the banks screw over lots of financially ignorant students with crappy termed student loan agreements'. IMHO a government program doesn't need to also include lots of beauracracy. At least not if it's kept simple. i.e., don't make the repayment plan as complicated as income taxes, keep it simple like SS withholding.
organictex
2-10-16, 11:59am
And if one extrapolates this out to the potentially millions of people who have a student loan golden handcuff but is not in a loan forgiveness program one could consider that this is possibly a societal problem because it prevents many/most of them from quiting their corporate soul sucking job to pursue their great entrepreneurial idea of perhaps a breakthrough in battery technology or medical technology or whatever. Maybe we need to be looking for a better way to finance higher education than loans. Or at least a different way of how we require repayment such as a flat percentage of income until paid off, regardless of what that income is.
what steams me about the whole thing (as I said before) it that our politicians have been paid off
by the finance industry and now people cant even discharge a SL by bankruptcy! we taxpayers will
literally be paying off TRILLIONS of dollars worth of SL when people die with loans still on the books :(
Williamsmith
2-10-16, 1:38pm
Let's say I was just graduated college with a huge student loan debt. I know exactly what I would do. I would apply for as many credit cards as possible and move to a piece of property and live a self sufficient lifestyle cut off from all the trappings of the economic world and I would stick it to them by defaulting on my student loan. The student loan debt is not much different than being indentured servants.
Let's say I was just graduated college with a huge student loan debt. I know exactly what I would do. I would apply for as many credit cards as possible and move to a piece of property and live a self sufficient lifestyle cut off from all the trappings of the economic world and I would stick it to them by defaulting on my student loan. The student loan debt is not much different than being indentured servants.Of course, if you were to disclose your intentions during the application process you'd be turned down and, problem solved.
We should just nationalize all the universities and colleges, and provide free education, room, board, and medical care to everyone for life.
I have all sorts of Ph.Ds I'd love to work on.
Make sure to keep those checks coming in on time, Alan! We're counting on you!
We should just nationalize all the universities and colleges, and provide free education, room, board, and medical care to everyone for life.
Just like prison?
Just like prison?Same Same!
Williamsmith
2-10-16, 4:26pm
You guys forgot the free hormone therapy for sex change inmates.......
Just like prison?
But we've been privatizing the prisons...
Didn't you disclose recently that you'd borrowed something like $170,000? You did know you'd have to pay it back didn't you?
+1
+1
Yppej:
I like you. You are rather sporting.
OMG who is the "steve" who co-signed this guy's new set of loans? Who would be so stupid these days as to -co-sign student loans to the tune of $190,000 when the applicant has made little progress in paying them down?
Edited to add: the "steve" in this article is the author's friend.
There is no hope for this generation.
Get off my lawn.
I read this article and wow, IL is right, who is "Steve?" I am troubled that the guy had his grandmother co-sign the 100000 of undergrad loans--I guess they were undergrad loans?
Why would you do either of these things to someone who cared about you? He presents himself as unusually clueless, but he also seems pretty ethically challenged for a bioethicist.
This article is definitely worth reading as a cautionary tale--both about student loans and being friends to folks with student loans.
Of my three children, one has students loans remaining from his undergrad years at an expensive private college (graduated in 2004) and not sure how much headway he has made on them. He sort of works in his field but is a freelancer. One graduated with less debt as he received a Hispanic scholarship and attended a low cost school. The third dropped out of college freshman year as he was debt averse and said he saw too many people graduating and not able to get jobs.
With first son, I paid in about 5000 a year for him to go. With second, I found and arranged the Hispanic scholarship which was about 10000 a year. Then, I paid the remaining 6500 of his debt about two years after he graduated.
I felt guilty for advising them to go to college, and would probably give different advice today, but that was how I was raised, and with the first, I was still in the mindset of "go to the best competitive school you can as it will pay off later in terms of jobs." It did not work for me and it did not for them.
It did work for my dil, who took out grad school loans in a good field and has a good job now.
I am shocked the guy in the article makes 70,000 a year--I have never earned that much, even with a PhD, so I don't know what to say about his loans, except that they seem excessive, and he should never have arranged for cosigners.
Teacher Terry
6-5-18, 10:58am
I did not go to college until I was 31 and we had saved up the $ to pay for it. We paid for my first masters even though I could have gotten it for free but being a TA at a college a hour away was too difficult with 3 kids. My second masters was paid for by the Feds if I worked 3 years in public rehabilitation. I spent my career in public service. My kids lived at home and went to the local university. There are ways to do it without going broke. Now for those with big student debt the only thing they can do at this point is try to keep moving forward.
iris lilies
6-5-18, 11:27am
Re: co-signing a loan
A young woman we know, only employed part time, is going for a mortgage. This person has lots of personal problems, but suffice to say she cannot get a mortgage without a co-signer.
”I can get a mortgage if someone will just co-sign the paperwork” she says.
ah, no honey, you do not qualify for a loan. If you qualified for a loan, you would not need a co-signer.
Chicken lady
6-5-18, 11:35am
The whole college game is interesting to me.
dh went to Big Name School that his father attended for undergrad, because it was always assumed he would. He then went to State School for graduate work because we wanted to get married and it was close to me and offered the best assistantship package. in retrospect he says he should have gone to a state school for undergrad and Big Name School for graduate work, but his work at State School led to his current, well paid, decently located job.
I had to choose among Major State University (full tuition scholarship), Former Teacher College, and Fancy School. I fell in love with Fancy School, but ultimately my dad talked me into keeping it as an option for graduate school because he didn’t feel that the financial difference was justified at the undergrad level. He was willing and able to pay for most of Former Teacher College and I got a job and graduated debt free. The choice definitely changed the course of my life, because I would not have felt free to get married, have babies young, and stay home for years if I had gone to Fancy School. I also would probably have been much more serious about my school work and taken a more accademic path. Everyone is going to have their own views on that, but I like my life.
we paid off dh undergrad loans when he was 29. We had already started saving for our kids’ college.
dd1 took a free ride on academics, ds got a nice academic scholarship, and dd2 got some small scholarships based on activities and competitions. We were able to cover their room, board, books and tuition. (For Dd 1 we covered all of her non-entertainment expenses - $800 first semester, a little more later on- she bought a car for her co-op jobs and we paid her insurance.)
heartdaughter started college with a full tuition academic scholarship, but couldn’t be a full time student, keep her grades up and work enough hours to feed and shelter herself. She didn’t really understand how the deck was stacked and was too proud and stubborn to ask for or accept help. The university wouldn’t let her go part time. She ended up dropping out homeless after a year. She continued to suck up as much education as she could get, but didn’t accumulate any paperwork. Finally after having doors shut in her face long enough, she went back to school. She let us pay one semester of tuition ($2,700) when she was in financial straights after leaving her abusive husband (and first and last month’s rent on the cheap apartment she found for her and her son) and 7 years later, she just finished her master’s degree. Her house needs a new roof, she’s basically broke, and her car sucks, but aside from her mortgage, she’s debt free.
iris lilies
6-5-18, 12:31pm
You can do two more years standing on your head.
I still have 8.5 more years in my sentence! haha
Ah, ok, I see from this old post that UL is now 7 years away from endng his sentence. Well, that is a while, considering how long we here have been discussing his situation.
According to CNN, only about 42% of people attending college take out debt. I was a little surprised to hear that.
http://money.cnn.com/2018/06/05/pf/college/student-loan-stats/index.html
According to CNN, only about 42% of people attending college take out debt. I was a little surprised to hear that.
http://money.cnn.com/2018/06/05/pf/college/student-loan-stats/index.html
They probably had other forms of support. I took out a sizeable loan to help my daughter, which I'm still paying off (my DD graduated in 2007). I was absolutely dumbfounded to learn about the terms of the loan. For years, there was absolutely no part of the payment applied to the principal of the loan. My fault for not going through the terms with a fine-tooth comb. But when I had paid 2-3 years of loan payments and the principal had gone down 0%, I called the loan people up and asked them and it was because there was some kind of graduated payment built in because they assume the student doesn't have the means with an entry level job to pay the loan back. But 3 years of INTEREST-ONLY payments????
Yes, it was my fault for not reading the terms of the mortgage (oops, Freudian slip--I meant school loan). But the FAFSA had determined that we had significantly more ability to pay at one point (after two sons had graduated from a state school) and that left us with the decision for me to find a loan during my lunch hour one day (I cash-flowed the first two years of DD's education) or tell DD that she had to move home and go to a state school.
So, that 42% may be a little bit off. It doesn't mean that 68% are cash-flowing their education. It probably means that other people are burdened with the cost.
LDAHL, you and others are probably rolling their eyes at my financial illiteracy, but sometimes we right-brained folk a) don't know what the hell we're dealing with and b) people make choices based on the best prospect for a successful outcome, which isn't always consistent with the best financial outcome for the debtor.
We should just nationalize all the universities and colleges, and provide free education, room, board, and medical care to everyone for life.
I have all sorts of Ph.Ds I'd love to work on.
Make sure to keep those checks coming in on time, Alan! We're counting on you!
I would like to get a PhD in Entitlement Studies.
My daughter graduated today with her BA. She has no loans. I still have $166k left on the parent loans the university offered me (at 3-4%) to help make the full fare they charged us somewhat less painful.
My daughter graduated today with her BA.
Congratulation Bae and family. It seems like just yesterday you were posting pictures of her fencing (I'm guessing she was early/mid teens?). And I thought it was just last year when she left for college. Time is just flying by.
My daughter graduated today with her BA. She has no loans. I still have $166k left on the parent loans the university offered me (at 3-4%) to help make the full fare they charged us somewhat less painful.
What's next?
My daughter graduated today with her BA. She has no loans. I still have $166k left on the parent loans the university offered me (at 3-4%) to help make the full fare they charged us somewhat less painful.
Congratulations!! If I were still in the area I would have given you guys a wave driving through town. I agree with the others. I don't know where the time has gone.
How wonderful, congrats:
https://youtu.be/89fZGnAdago
https://i.imgur.com/FXQt4Wt.jpg
Teacher Terry
6-6-18, 10:30am
Awesome! Yes the time went fast.
iris lilies
6-6-18, 10:58am
Great image! Just wonderful!
Great photo! Everyone involved should be proud.
I worked my way through school back when it was easily paid for. It took me six years, and looking back on it, I shouldn't have left so soon. Of all the gigs I had, only my tech editing internship required a degree. But I did OK with my Arts and Letters sheepskin.
I have a whole list of caveats saved up for the next time around, if any.
OMG who is the "steve" who co-signed this guy's new set of loans? Who would be so stupid these days as to -co-sign student loans to the tune of $190,000 when the applicant has made little progress in paying them down?
Edited to add: the "steve" in this article is the author's friend.
There is no hope for this generation.
Get off my lawn.
My thought exactly. One more thing to talk to my son about --- DON'T co-sign a loan for anyone, regardless of how good a "friend" they are!
Teacher Terry
9-29-18, 4:21pm
There is a thread on Mr MM about the forgiveness program. It says the important thing is to send in yearly a certificate from your employer verifying your employment. The success rate of people qualifying is abysmal.
What a beautiful photo, congratulations!
Ultralight
10-1-18, 6:06am
There is a thread on Mr MM about the forgiveness program. It says the important thing is to send in yearly a certificate from your employer verifying your employment. The success rate of people qualifying is abysmal.
I am well-aware the success rate is in the toilet.
I do send in my paperwork yearly. The thing is, I'd probably be working a job like this anyway. Remember, I am not especially skilled and there are not many jobs out there for a guy like me with my "disruptive" energy.
So here I am, workin' for the gubmint.
Ultralight
10-1-18, 6:16am
I also think that over the next year or so we'll be able to see if the success rate of approval increases.
You'd be amazed at how little people engage with their loans and their loan servicer. Some people do not even know if their loans are government or corporate, as only government loans can be in the PSLF program.
One of my coworkers said: "I can't get into the PSLF program. They said I make too much."
Meanwhile I am thinking: "I make more than you. So did a few people who reported actually qualifying in 2017."
She then went on to tell me some of her loans were corporate.
I also know a few people who went into default for not paying their government loans. They were literally like: "It is too complicated. I just can't deal with it."
I thought: "You have a college degree. You are smart enough to at least make a good faith effort."
Teacher Terry
10-1-18, 10:15am
In many cases the servicer was at fault. Tons of examples like charging the person 2cents too little per month and then claiming the person did not make the full payment. I agree that people are often too lazy to figure out what they need to do.
ToomuchStuff
10-2-18, 11:45am
I also think that over the next year or so we'll be able to see if the success rate of approval increases.
You'd be amazed at how little people engage with their loans and their loan servicer. Some people do not even know if their loans are government or corporate, as only government loans can be in the PSLF program.
One of my coworkers said: "I can't get into the PSLF program. They said I make too much."
Meanwhile I am thinking: "I make more than you. So did a few people who reported actually qualifying in 2017."
She then went on to tell me some of her loans were corporate.
I also know a few people who went into default for not paying their government loans. They were literally like: "It is too complicated. I just can't deal with it."
I thought: "You have a college degree. You are smart enough to at least make a good faith effort."
So as blind/ignorant to the costs going in as coming out. I am hoping these weren't the company accountants.
Apparently now that there are people who’ve been in the loan forgiveness program that should be done it turns out that 99% of them have failed...
https://www.npr.org/2018/10/17/653853227/the-student-loan-whistleblower
Ultralight
10-17-18, 9:05pm
Apparently now that there are people who’ve been in the loan forgiveness program that should be done it turns out that 99% of them have failed...
https://www.npr.org/2018/10/17/653853227/the-student-loan-whistleblower
I read that article today too. Shocked, I tell ya!
Maybe the whistleblower article will help! I bet things will move in a better direction for the loan program, now that this is starting to be exposed.
catherine
10-18-18, 10:45am
I am disgusted with student loan programs. Yes, I fell into their clutches too ignorantly and passively. I needed a loan to get DD through 2 more years of school, and during a lunch hour at work Wells Fargo was more than happy to comply with my request.
Stupid me.. I never really examined the terms. The original loan was $15,800. I paid interest-only for years after DD graduated. DD graduated in 2007. I STILL OWE $6,707!!! This is ridiculous, and I only have myself to blame.
For the fun of it I clicked on "loan forgiveness" and the first thing it said was "If you are deceased you may be entitled to loan forgiveness."
Catherine, I'd be so tempted to just write a check for that, even if it meant diminishing my savings. The ongoing hassle, and the feeling that you have something to blame yourself for--it would be so great to have that gone from your life.
That is what we did for a 401k loan my husband took out, and stupidly spent on thing he had not planned to spend it on--a big mistake. We just ended up paying it off out of savings to get it gone. It was bugging me that he had done it, and keeping us stuck in an unpleasant place.
Even if it did not make "financial sense" it made emotional sense and helped us move on from the initial bad decision and beating up on ourselves.
Teacher Terry
10-18-18, 11:47am
Yes sometimes the smart thing to do is just to move on from financial mistakes. We all make them.
Ultralight
10-18-18, 1:53pm
Maybe the whistleblower article will help! I bet things will move in a better direction for the loan program, now that this is starting to be exposed.
You never know. It might help. Or the PSLF program just might get Republicaned. We'll see.
But to be honest, I am not worth much in the labor market. So even if the program ceased to exist I would probably still do something like I am doing now. I feel in some ways like I am on a welfare-to-work program or on one of those programs they had during the great depression where the gubmint made a bunch of "make-work" so that people could afford a can of beans and a loaf of bread. lol
Well, some beautiful art came out of those programs in the Depression, including the supercool murals in post offices, and beautiful stone lodges at national parks.
So sometimes, beauty emerges out of difficult circumstances that look very unpromising.
Ultralight
10-27-18, 8:30pm
These people left the country to avoid their student loans.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/26/he-moved-to-a-jungle-in-india-to-escape-his-student-debt--and-hes-not-alone-.html
Teacher Terry
10-27-18, 8:52pm
India is not somewhere I would want to live. Japan on the other hand would be fine.
ToomuchStuff
10-28-18, 10:24am
These people left the country to avoid their student loans.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/26/he-moved-to-a-jungle-in-india-to-escape-his-student-debt--and-hes-not-alone-.html
So, are you doing a Gimme and saying you have bags packed?:laff:
Ultralight
10-28-18, 10:27am
So, are you doing a Gimme and saying you have bags packed?:laff:
No other countries would take me in! haha
ToomuchStuff
10-28-18, 10:29am
No other countries would take me in! haha
Not the reply I was expecting. I was expecting you to say, bagS? A minimalist only needs one.
Ultralight
10-28-18, 10:38am
Not the reply I was expecting. I was expecting you to say, bagS? A minimalist only needs one.
OBL, the holy grail of minimalism.
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