View Full Version : Article "Too Poor to Retire and Too Young to Die"
rodeosweetheart
2-5-16, 9:51am
Some discussion on another forum of this very interesting article:
http://graphics.latimes.com/retirement-nomads/
I thought that the video carried a very different message than the article itself--an interesting dichotomy.
I find this kind of article pretty scary these days, and have always wondered about the expenses involved in the RV lifestyle.
It is hard to be independent and mobile on limited funds.
Years ago, houses used to rent out rooms with meals to singles providing a home for the solitary and income for the homeowners. Is that coming back due to need? One can find stuff to do as long as one has a safe roof and a warm bed with meals.
rodeosweetheart
2-5-16, 10:56am
It is hard to be independent and mobile on limited funds.
Years ago, houses used to rent out rooms with meals to singles providing a home for the solitary and income for the homeowners. Is that coming back due to need? One can find stuff to do as long as one has a safe roof and a warm bed with meals.
My great-aunt used to run a boarding house, called more commonly a tourist home in the south. I can remember visiting and eating dinner with her boarders, around a long table, with family style bowls and platters of food in the middle of the table.
Had not thought of that in years. Maybe the time has come to go back to that model.
What an intrepid woman; I wish I had half her energy and resourcefulness.
ApatheticNoMore
2-5-16, 11:43am
She makes interesting choices that many would judge in a world of bleak practicality, but like she says keeps her soul alive, like choosing the Frank Lloyd Wright tour over the dentist. :) And trying to eat organic over fast food for her health.
rodeosweetheart
2-5-16, 11:50am
She makes interesting choices that many would judge in a world of bleak practicality, but like she says keeps her soul alive, like choosing the Frank Lloyd Wright tour over the dentist. :) And trying to eat organic over fast food for her health.
Right, I think "bleak practicality" is a good descriptor. I had to laugh about that one, as we once went to Taliesin and so much wanted to go on the tour, but it was too expensive, and we just had to look around where we could. I am shocked at how much tickets to things like this cost these days.
All three of those stories were a bit depressing. The 2nd story, a couple. I wonder what kind of old debt payments they are making every month when they can barely make it on his $2,700 a month military, IRA payouts, disability, plus their part-time jobs. All three examples seem to have old debt they didn't get rid of before starting this RV livestyle.
Williamsmith
2-5-16, 1:20pm
Property ownership has always been the key to security and freedom.
Gardenarian
2-5-16, 1:56pm
Well, that was kind of depressing (I wasn't able to watch the video.)
Property ownership has always been the key to security and freedom.
This seems true to me. The trick is getting that first mortgage paid off when you are young.
Where I live, it is hard for younger people to make enough money for a down payment - never mind trying to pay off a loan quickly. The rents are high all over, making it much harder for people to save.
OK, this one put me in a better mood. She's happy. She has 2 dogs. Her finances seem in order. She likes to be alone. And...she takes a lot of photos. http://rvsueandcrew.net/
ApatheticNoMore
2-5-16, 2:17pm
This seems true to me. The trick is getting that first mortgage paid off when you are young. Where I live, it is hard for younger people to make enough money for a down payment - never mind trying to pay off a loan quickly. The rents are high all over, making it much harder for people to save.
yes it's really not possible many places, and even if by some stretch you make it possible it tends to come with commuting two hours each way to work, just to keep the house. And then one wonders if it's psychically worth it, and I'm intended to conclude: NO! No, it's not, live near work, rent ...
Williamsmith
2-5-16, 3:06pm
Well, you pretty much have a choice to enter the system and deal with its heartbreaks along the way or take a path less travelled and deal with different kinds of hardships. It really is possible to live less connected to the rat race by starting out purchasing property, build shelter and some conveniences and live a more or less self sufficient life compared to the rest.
This has really been the choice ever since we were a fledgling country. You could move west into the undeveloped country and try to make it on your own or stay in the cities, work for a landowner or industrialist and live near their factory or business. The choice is still there but the biggest obstacle has been our acceptance of debt as a means to growth, it introduces a distinct risk for the artisan or commoner with little savings.
One well off, debt is an investment and devastation can be avoided by various dubious business practices like, bankruptcy or pushing debt off onto your customers or dumping your employee burden.
Related to this, I had a thought about some kind of federally sponsored RV campgrounds for seniors just like this. Seems like it wouldn't cost much to operate and it would allow these people to have an inexpensive place to stay and keep their dignity in their old age.
rodeosweetheart
2-6-16, 9:51am
Related to this, I had a thought about some kind of federally sponsored RV campgrounds for seniors just like this. Seems like it wouldn't cost much to operate and it would allow these people to have an inexpensive place to stay and keep their dignity in their old age.
Lainey, I think that is a fantastic idea. I wonder how that idea could be mobilized--I would love to see that, and it would fit the need of so many people I have talked to.
rodeosweetheart,
for some reason, homelessness has always hit a special nerve with me. I think our country can be much more creative in ways to fix this. There are abandoned resorts in the Pocono mountains. There are shopping malls that could be converted to living spaces. There are old hotels and motels that can be converted. Doesn't have to be fancy, just functional.
But campgrounds in particular would seem a fairly simple start-up. Maybe some in HUD has already thought of this? But again, it has to be operated as a non-profit either by a charity or by the gov't.
Well, it might start out as a senior RV centre based on income but, as has happened here in Ontario with subsidized small apartments, those apartments are taken over by young people with serious mental or addiction issues based on human rights decisions. They are very abusive of the vulnerable seniors, not compliant with housing regulations and very difficult to control or evict. Little incentive to change results.
Ideal solutions need to examine all the risks of derailment and there will be many. Seniors, especially older vulnerable ones, are losing a lot of their special considerations as time goes by. The idea of what works for one must be available to all seems to be taking its place regardless of frailty. Nursing homes, for example, are being taken over by much younger strong people with development issues that staff have no idea of how to handle.
iris lilies
2-6-16, 11:27am
Well, it might start out as a senior RV centre based on income but, as has happened here in Ontario with subsidized small apartments, those apartments are taken over by young people with serious mental or addiction issues based on human rights decisions. They are very abusive of the vulnerable seniors, not compliant with housing regulations and very difficult to control or evict. Little incentive to change results.
Ideal solutions need to examine all the risks of derailment and there will be many. Seniors, especially older vulnerable ones, are losing a lot of their special considerations as time goes by. The idea of what works for one must be available to all seems to be taking its place regardless of frailty. Nursing homes, for example, are being taken over by much younger strong people with development issues that staff have no idea of how to handle.
Exactly.
The problem with ghettoizing poor seniors is that it's a ghetto for poor people who are especially vulnerable.
If in dire financial straights, I would very much choose to live in a tiny apartment in the most expensive (or "good") neighborhood I could possibly afford. Rather than trolling around in a big expensiveand bulky RV, i would stay loose and try to keep within the confines of non-criminal element neighborhoods..
I've looked at amount on websites that list "over 55" mobile home parks. Many of those mobile homes are simple and super inexpensive. But of course its the lot rent that may be high ( I dont know the cost) and possibly these places are way out from grocery stores and etc, so a car is necessary.
I often see myself as the outlier and in this situation just shows how much I am. I see this situation as someone who was dealt a bad hand and made a good life for herself. Her lot rent went up too high and she decided to make it an adventure. There aren't many 80 yo who would do that. There also aren't many 80 year olds who are "loved" by a bunch of high school and college aged kids. Kids that were looking out for her. She's been active, doing interesting things, looks like she is pretty physically fit and young for her age, and is independent.
She could have played it safe. Maybe she would have had a few more dollars in the bank, but probably not enough to make much difference. She also could be shuffling along in her walker to Bingo at the Assisted living game room or some other mindless thing seniors are supposed to do. Or dead. But she is still interested in Frank Lloyd Wright and eating prime rib. What is so wrong with that? IMHO a life well spent is much more valuable than a few more dollars in the bank
iris lilies
2-6-16, 4:18pm
I often see myself as the outlier and in this situation just shows how much I am. I see this situation as someone who was dealt a bad hand and made a good life for herself. Her lot rent went up too high and she decided to make it an adventure. There aren't many 80 yo who would do that. There also aren't many 80 year olds who are "loved" by a bunch of high school and college aged kids. Kids that were looking out for her. She's been active, doing interesting things, looks like she is pretty physically fit and young for her age, and is independent.
She could have played it safe. Maybe she would have had a few more dollars in the bank, but probably not enough to make much difference. She also could be shuffling along in her walker to Bingo at the Assisted living game room or some other mindless thing seniors are supposed to do. Or dead. But she is still interested in Frank Lloyd Wright and eating prime rib. What is so wrong with that? IMHO a life well spent is much more valuable than a few more dollars in the bank
I agree with that view of this woman, she is pretty amazng!
i justbdont want to romanticize her nomadic life. I hope its what she wants.
rodeosweetheart
2-6-16, 8:01pm
I agree with that view of this woman, she is pretty amazng!
i justbdont want to romanticize her nomadic life. I hope its what she wants.
In the video, she sounded like she was doing what she wanted. The article made her sound stressed and at points, suicidal, but I should go back and reread it; maybe she was suicidal before she hit the road, there in her driveway.
I wish she did not have to work so much--could settle into a warm place and enjoy herself. maybe I am just projecting my own fears, that I would not want to be grappling with water pumps and working so hard at that age, or worrying about money and survival at that age.
I have a friend living in this exact situation. She now parks her aging, decrepit rig in the dirt yard of a slumlord-owned home that her friends rent out. She moves around throughout the Southwest, trying (usually unsuccessfully) to sell crafts she makes and picking up temp work wherever she is. Her Social Security check is seventeen dollars over the limit, so she is ineligible for food stamps. She lives on about $875 a month and has not seen a dentist or eye doctor for years. When her RV needs repairs, it terrifies her because of the cost. She has no car--can't afford it--and can't afford to use the RV for daily errands, so she depends on friends for lifts to the grocery store, etc. She is in her late sixties, and, as a free spirit, never went to college, saved for retirement or even had jobs with pensions or benefits. She is surprisingly optimistic, but admitted she has seriously considered suicide on several occasions.
She lives on about $875 a month and has not seen a dentist or eye doctor for years.
If she's in her late 60s, isn't she eligible for Medicare?
dentists and eyes aren't covered on Medicare--it doesn't care THAT much,lol.
Teacher Terry
2-8-16, 1:20pm
As previously mentioned no one has to live this way. They can do low income senior housing, etc. There are ways to be comfortable on very little $ with the help of government programs.
Well, it might start out as a senior RV centre based on income but, as has happened here in Ontario with subsidized small apartments, those apartments are taken over by young people with serious mental or addiction issues based on human rights decisions. They are very abusive of the vulnerable seniors, not compliant with housing regulations and very difficult to control or evict. Little incentive to change results.
.
In the U.S. it is legal to have age-restricted federally subsidized housing. I think for an RV park with basic amenities for ages 55+ it would be fairly cheap to run. I'd also provide some spaces for a few younger folks, maybe families, who want to handle security and park management.
also there were a few ads in the paper this week for older mobile homes (not RVs) already in mobile home parks. They go pretty cheaply - I saw one for $10,000 and I think that included all furnishings. But you'd still have to pay lot rent (maybe $400-$500/month) which usually includes water and trash. So your out of pocket would be your electrical bill, and the usual phone, insurance, food, etc. that you'd pay anyway.
Bottom line is that I understand RVers who are following temp job opportunities, but I think they should consider staying put which seems to require a lower amount of money each month to get by.
Teacher Terry
2-9-16, 1:20pm
When my MIL died she had an older mobile home in a park where lot rent was $400/month. We found a young Mom with a low paying job and offered her the home for $100/month for 4 years and then it was hers with no interest. She jumped at it because it was much less then what she was paying in rent. It was a win-win for everyone. There are better ways to make things work then what these people are choosing.
When my MIL died she had an older mobile home in a park where lot rent was $400/month. We found a young Mom with a low paying job and offered her the home for $100/month for 4 years and then it was hers with no interest. She jumped at it because it was much less then what she was paying in rent. It was a win-win for everyone. There are better ways to make things work then what these people are choosing.
That is a very good thing to do. We have a man in our church who buys properties (mostly mobile homes) and has them fixed (he is 80 something himself). The contract he writes, the renter pays 6 years then owns the property.
Live simply to live your adventure, that’s how I would have titled that article and Wow, Dolores seems amazing. Yes its sad to see her struggle and its getting harder for her as she ages but she has the right attitude because shes always looking to make the most of her life - I think that is braver than most of us are willing to admit. She made some bold decisions to put her fate more in her own hands rather than in someone elses. She just needs a little more security (financially) to fully enjoy her life so the high cost fixups of her RV or her dentist bill wont stop her from her ‘adventure’.
I think it was quite a pertinent point early in the article that Dolores “didn’t do much long term financial planning”. Such a shame as it seems like she has a beautiful soul that is now struggling to maintain her “adventure” in life.
There are now many new and exciting opportunities opening up through the internet that Dolores wouldn’t have had access to in her day. The internet provides much better options than working 12hrs a day, 6 days a week (one hell of a trade of time vs income) and she still has those options available to her now. An excellent option is to learn a new skill that doesn’t require that trade off of time for money – which on the face of it sounds difficult – but with an attitude and persistency like Dolores’, learning a new skill is not difficult. Having some caring people help you get a new skill is vital aswell because its incredibly easy to just stop because its ‘too hard’. An excellent place to get this help and new skill is at this link http://thesfm.com/Hurrikane16?pg=laptop-lifestyle&ar=system&t=forum-post-laptoplifestyle-feb-08. I encourage everyone and anyone looking to live how they want to live (like Dolores) to take a look at this option. The only thing stopping you from getting the simple life is your mindset. If you surround yourself with other like-minded people then you have a very high chance of getting what your after, and if its taking longer than you thought, then at least your on the right path to satisfaction and happiness – I don’t want to be working like Dolores has to but only if I want to. Go to this site and see how people like you and I are preventing the hardships that Dolores is going through and instead set up our own future.
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