Dude making a difference?

[Ultralight]

http://www.huffingtonpost.in/2016/03/25/this-man-is-living-his-li_n_9545166.html

"This Man Has Exactly 111 Possessions. And He's Happy."

[catherine]

Rob Greenfield is definitely a simple liver on a mission. I've read his story and he pretty much walks the walk.

http://robgreenfield.tv

[oldhat]

Ha! I saw that Huffpo article this morning and have spent half the day reading his blog. (Needless to say, I'm having a slow day at work.) Very inspirational.

In time, I'd like to adopt some of his simple lifestyle choices, like going car-free. (I draw the line at giving up toilet paper, though.)

[freshstart]

my first thought when I read the tight was UA going, "he beat me by 39, I could've been in Huffpo!", lol, just teasing

[Williamsmith]

I have met a lot of homeless people who have fewer possessions, throwing off materialism and consumerism, traveling from place to place, relying on the web of generousity or stretching the bounds of hospitality.....and doing it all without any thought of making a difference or blogging for some purpose. One persons inspiration is another persons bum I guess.

[Ultralight]

my first thought when I read the tight was UA going, "he beat me by 39, I could've been in Huffpo!", lol, just teasing
LOL

[Ultralight]

I have met a lot of homeless people who have fewer possessions, throwing off materialism and consumerism, traveling from place to place, relying on the web of generousity or stretching the bounds of hospitality.....and doing it all without any thought of making a difference or blogging for some purpose. One persons inspiration is another persons bum I guess.

You think he is a bum? lol

[catherine]

I have met a lot of homeless people who have fewer possessions, throwing off materialism and consumerism, traveling from place to place, relying on the web of generousity or stretching the bounds of hospitality.....and doing it all without any thought of making a difference or blogging for some purpose. One persons inspiration is another persons bum I guess.

The difference between an inspiration and a bum is intention. It has nothing to do with how many possessions one has. If you see all homeless people with no possessions as bums, what does that say for Jesus or Peace Pilgrim or Buddha? Some people are mendicants with a spiritual message. Others are bums. Let's not confuse the two.

[freshstart]

LOL

title, not tight or that made no sense as usual, sorry

[Ultralight]

title, not tight or that made no sense as usual, sorry

I knew exactly what you meant. That is why I LOLed.

There was a little part of my that was like: "111? Well played, Rob. Well played!" haha

[Williamsmith]

The difference between an inspiration and a bum is intention. It has nothing to do with how many possessions one has. If you see all homeless people with no possessions as bums, what does that say for Jesus or Peace Pilgrim or Buddha? Some people are mendicants with a spiritual message. Others are bums. Let's not confuse the two.

Intention is a mental state. One minute an inspiration, another a bum. Rob himself admits his humanness, his lack of perfection. Jesus, to my knowledge was the only great moral teacher who claimed to be God and actually offered forgiveness for which he was killed. Satish Kumar declared his absolute dependence on the Earth and by proxy those who reside in it with supportive resources and charity. What is Rob Greenfield? A pilgrim. Inspirational to some, nothing to others, and a bum.

[Ultralight]

Intention is a mental state. One minute an inspiration, another a bum. Rob himself admits his humanness, his lack of perfection. Jesus, to my knowledge was the only great moral teacher who claimed to be God and actually offered forgiveness for which he was killed. Satish Kumar declared his absolute dependence on the Earth and by proxy those who reside in it with supportive resources and charity. What is Rob Greenfield? A pilgrim. Inspirational to some, nothing to others, and a bum.

I wonder if anyone called Jesus a bum back in the day...

[catherine]

Intention is a mental state. One minute an inspiration, another a bum. Rob himself admits his humanness, his lack of perfection. Jesus, to my knowledge was the only great moral teacher who claimed to be God and actually offered forgiveness for which he was killed. Satish Kumar declared his absolute dependence on the Earth and by proxy those who reside in it with supportive resources and charity. What is Rob Greenfield? A pilgrim. Inspirational to some, nothing to others, and a bum.

I hate to go ULA on you, but I guess you'd have to define "bum" to me (not the anatomical version, please. :)

A bum is different from a hobo which is different from a gypsy which is different from a pilgrim which is different from a mendicant. To me, bum has a negative connotation, which is maybe unfair to bums.

I don't see people like Rob Greenfield or Mark Boyle or Daniel Suelo or Heidi Marie Schwermer as bums at all. I see them as people who have found fulfillment and freedom in living without money.

[Williamsmith]

I hate to go ULA on you, but I guess you'd have to define "bum" to me (not the anatomical version, please. :)

A bum is different from a hobo which is different from a gypsy which is different from a pilgrim which is different from a mendicant. To me, bum has a negative connotation, which is maybe unfair to bums.

I don't see people like Rob Greenfield or Mark Boyle or Daniel Suelo or Heidi Marie Schwermer as bums at all. I see them as people who have found fulfillment and freedom in living without money.

What makes him a medicant? More than your average ordinary bum? Is it just because he has self professed fulfillment. Is $15,000 insignificant? I have met with more than a few bums and they have many of the same qualities and almost all of them less reliant on money and as inspirational as Rob Greenfield. So I would not say I a, trying to drag him down as a bum as much as lift other bums up to your level of medicant. But of course, most bums don't have a book, a blog, an investment business, or a charity.

[catherine]

What makes him a medicant? More than your average ordinary bum? Is it just because he has self professed fulfillment. Is $15,000 insignificant? I have met with more than a few bums and they have many of the same qualities and almost all of them less reliant on money and as inspirational as Rob Greenfield. So I would not say I a, trying to drag him down as a bum as much as lift other bums up to your level of medicant. But of course, most bums don't have a book, a blog, an investment business, or a charity.

No, I'm not saying he's a mendicant. I'm just saying there are different types of people who live without money. I think he's just a guy who's living on very little money and trying to inspire people who might be inclined to do the same. Labeling him a bum is a little harsh, IMHO, but that's why I asked for your definition.

I personally find people like him inspiring, even though it's not my lifestyle. I think people like him and the others I mentioned above serve to show us a different way of looking at what we think we "need."

[LDAHL]

Maybe it's the middle-aged Midwestern middle manager dad in me, but I can't help wondering who will support people like this in their old age. How do you arrange a cashless retirement?

I can admire living below own's means. I can even admire the ingenuity it takes to live off of society's accumulated capital. But part of me is locked into the ethic of supporting oneself before claiming any ethical high ground.

[Ultralight]

...go ULA on you...

Wait... this is a thing? "Going ULA" is a thing?! LOL

[Ultralight]

Maybe it's the middle-aged Midwestern middle manager dad in me, but I can't help wondering who will support people like this in their old age. How do you arrange a cashless retirement?

Good question! I think it varies. From what I have read, Daniel Suelo just plans to go out like a wild animal. Perhaps Rob has a different plan.


I can admire living below own's means. I can even admire the ingenuity it takes to live off of society's accumulated capital. But part of me is locked into the ethic of supporting oneself before claiming any ethical high ground.

Would you say this of Saint Francis of Assisi?

Further complicate it: Sometimes (often times?) one's method of supporting oneself is pretty dang horrible and exploitative. So simply supporting oneself does not provide the foundation for a moral high ground.

[The Storyteller]

Jesus, to my knowledge was the only great moral teacher who claimed to be God

Except no, he didn't.

But that's grist for another discussion in another area of the forum. :D

[Ultralight]

Except no, he didn't.

But that's grist for another discussion in another area of the forum. :D

I thought he claimed to be 33.33% god. The other 66.66% was The Father and The Holy Spirit (which I, incidentally, deny the existence of).

But with all this math, you can see how religion just doesn't fit into my kind of simple living. ;)

[catherine]

I thought he claimed to be 33.33% god. The other 66.66% was The Father and The Holy Spirit (which I, incidentally, deny the existence of).



To touch on my other thread, I'm wondering if this is what his Ancestry.com DNA test showed.

But theologically, your math is wrong, because it does not take into account the triune God.

[Ultralight]

To touch on my other thread, I'm wondering if this is what his Ancestry.com DNA test showed.

But theologically, your math is wrong, because it does not take into account the triune God.

Triune? Oh man... I am sure Jesus, The Father, and the Holy Spirit are none-too-please by having to split their godliness 4 ways. :(

[Williamsmith]

Except no, he didn't.

But that's grist for another discussion in another area of the forum. :D

The scripture attributes numerous quotes addressing this but bring it up elsewhere and maybe you can convince me otherwise. State what particular theological training you draw from or religious dogma so I can understand your bias.
I was raised in the Christian & Missionary Alliance, baptized by immersion at age 14 and sanctified. Some may describe us as dispensationalists. But mostly I am a dumb retired cop.

There you have a head start on me.

[Ultralight]

The scripture attributes numerous quotes addressing this but bring it up elsewhere and maybe you can convince me otherwise. State what particular theological training you draw from or religious dogma so I can understand your bias.
I was raised in the Christian & Missionary Alliance, baptized by immersion at age 14 and sanctified. Some may describe us as dispensationalists. But mostly I am a dumb retired cop.

There you have a head start on me.

I was raised Catholic. I did not consent to Baptism and was coerced into Confirmation.

I have since "blasphemed."

But mostly I am just a loan drone and humble fisherman.

[Williamsmith]

I was raised Catholic. I did not consent to Baptism and was coerced into Confirmation.

I have since "blasphemed."

But mostly I am just a loan drone and humble fisherman.

Then you were an infant and I would agree with you...your baptism meant nothing. Your confirmation confirmed nothing. Jesus loved fishermen.

[Ultralight]

Then you were an infant and I would agree with you...your baptism meant nothing. Your confirmation confirmed nothing.

I mean this: That is very considerate of you to say. I appreciate it very much.

[LDAHL]

Good question! I think it varies. From what I have read, Daniel Suelo just plans to go out like a wild animal. Perhaps Rob has a different plan.



Would you say this of Saint Francis of Assisi?

Further complicate it: Sometimes (often times?) one's method of supporting oneself is pretty dang horrible and exploitative. So simply supporting oneself does not provide the foundation for a moral high ground.

You've got me there. I'd be inclined to make an exception for saints, if not bloggers (although I'm not aware if Francis ever broke into an unoccupied house). I also doubt retirement planning was much of an issue in the 12th century. Nor was there a well-founded expectation that the taxpayers would keep you from starving, so the "money-free" life would have involved much higher stakes than it does today.

The people we're talking about here, have much more of a safety net to back them up than the saints of old. They're not risking much more than going on the dole. Holding oneself out as an example to emulate to some of the very same people who will someday be supporting you is a nice bit of Chutzpah, but is it really all that admirable?

[LDAHL]

I was raised Catholic. I did not consent to Baptism and was coerced into Confirmation.

I have since "blasphemed."

But mostly I am just a loan drone and humble fisherman.

I would say that technically you would be an apostate rather than a blasphemer under those circumstances.

I'm not sure that it's even possible for you to blaspheme. Sacrilege requiring a sense of the sacred, a non-believer taking God's name in vain would carry all the import of a blind person insulting your looks.

[Ultralight]

You've got me there. I'd be inclined to make an exception for saints, if not bloggers (although I'm not aware if Francis ever broke into an unoccupied house). I also doubt retirement planning was much of an issue in the 12th century. Nor was there a well-founded expectation that the taxpayers would keep you from starving, so the "money-free" life would have involved much higher stakes than it does today.

The people we're talking about here, have much more of a safety net to back them up than the saints of old. They're not risking much more than going on the dole. Holding oneself out as an example to emulate to some of the very same people who will someday be supporting you is a nice bit of Chutzpah, but is it really all that admirable?

I wonder what naysayers thought of the Franciscan monks back in their era.

But I also wonder about how people like Rob Greenfield fit in with Franciscan philosophy. Like for instance, Rob is giving you something. He is giving you the opportunity to be charitable to him. Seems rather Franciscan, in a way.

Could deeming him a crumb bum and denying him charity be violating this old code? "What you do onto the least of my people, you do unto me." (Who was it that said this? I can't recall...)


Furthermore, when I read into Rob's plan to be home-free with 111 possessions he said he can live without leaning on others, though he does trade labor and such for what he needs sometimes.

[Ultralight]

I would say that technically you would be an apostate rather than a blasphemer under those circumstances.

I'm not sure that it's even possible for you to blaspheme. Sacrilege requiring a sense of the sacred, a non-believer taking God's name in vain would carry all the import of a blind person insulting your looks.

I was always told that denying the existence of the Holy Spirit is blaspheming.

[catherine]

You've got me there. I'd be inclined to make an exception for saints, if not bloggers (although I'm not aware if Francis ever broke into an unoccupied house). I also doubt retirement planning was much of an issue in the 12th century. Nor was there a well-founded expectation that the taxpayers would keep you from starving, so the "money-free" life would have involved much higher stakes than it does today.

The people we're talking about here, have much more of a safety net to back them up than the saints of old. They're not risking much more than going on the dole. Holding oneself out as an example to emulate to some of the very same people who will someday be supporting you is a nice bit of Chutzpah, but is it really all that admirable?

I definitely want to follow up on this, but I'm too busy today making money.

I'll be back.

[Ultralight]

I definitely want to follow up on this, but I'm too busy today making money.

I'll be back.

I bet you do! This is right up your alley! :)

[LDAHL]

I was always told that denying the existence of the Holy Spirit is blaspheming.

Sin requires object, intent and circumstance. Can someone with no belief in God meet the criteria of object? Or harbor a real intent to deny or insult that which you don't think exists? At best, you might be guilty of the sin of insulting or discomfiting believers, which falls in a different class.

[Ultralight]

Sin requires object, intent and circumstance. Can someone with no belief in God meet the criteria of object? Or harbor a real intent to deny or insult that which you don't think exists? At best, you might be guilty of the sin of insulting or discomfiting believers, which falls in a different class.

That is actually really interesting. Obviously this is not my forte.

I just took The Blasphemy Challenge like so many did when the documentary The God Who Wasn't There came out and was making its rounds.

[LDAHL]

I wonder what naysayers thought of the Franciscan monks back in their era.

But I also wonder about how people like Rob Greenfield fit in with Franciscan philosophy. Like for instance, Rob is giving you something. He is giving you the opportunity to be charitable to him. Seems rather Franciscan, in a way.

Could deeming him a crumb bum and denying him charity be violating this old code? "What you do onto the least of my people, you do unto me." (Who was it that said this? I can't recall...)


Furthermore, when I read into Rob's plan to be home-free with 111 possessions he said he can live without leaning on others, though he does trade labor and such for what he needs sometimes.

I wouldn't characterize these people as "bums", necessarily. I would look at them more as the perpetual starving artist, professional student, etc. It's great to follow a dream or live your values, but it's even greater to do so while supporting yourself now and in the future.

[LDAHL]

That is actually really interesting. Obviously this is not my forte.

I just took The Blasphemy Challenge like so many did when the documentary The God Who Wasn't There came out and was making its rounds.

If you really want to get into the blasphemy business, though, I'd give certain adherents of Islam a wide berth.

[Ultralight]

If you really want to get into the blasphemy business, though, I'd give certain adherents of Islam a wide berth.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7QVbJnSPQE

[Ultralight]

I posted the video so that the tangent we're on made more sense -- I did refer to the Blasphemy Challenge. That is all really.

[rodeosweetheart]

Oh, I see, my bad, I get it now, thanks!

[Ultralight]

Oh, I see, my bad, I get it now, thanks!

But as for the folks in the video. Perhaps they were simply moved to speak. Why judge them?

[Ultralight]

Was genuinely mystified why someone who did not believe in something would expend energy proclaiming that they did not believe something.
Why trouble oneself with something that one believes does not exist?

Why trouble oneself about ones troubling themselves with something that aforementioned ones do not believe exist?

[rodeosweetheart]

Why trouble oneself about ones troubling themselves with something that aforementioned ones do not believe exist?

I thought you wanted to promote discussion. that is why I commented on your post, UL. :)

[Ultralight]

I thought you wanted to promote discussion. that is why I commented on your post, UL. :)

We can discuss anything you like.