Mother and guilt

[Tenngal]

My mother was abusive as we three girls were growing up. Mostly verbal and emotional with some physical thrown in. We are now age 60, 57 and 54. Mother is 81. Over the years we have all tried to detach from her with limited success. One sister lives 3 hrs away, I live about 1 hour away and the other one 30 min. During the past month she has been having some health problems which we thought required attention. After 2 short stays in the hospital it seems she just has a sinus infection which was already being treated. The list of complaints from her is long and nothing is found during testing. One sister has taken it upon herself to check on mother and even stay with her when she asks her to. I know she is going this out of guilt and the fact she thinks she is obligated to do so. Problem is, she gets aggravated and tries to drag us all into the situation. I am able to take some time off and will be glad to drive her to Dr appts and such. I will not be staying with her. Informed sister of this. Still, I feel guilty, but not enough to change my mind. The sense of dread I feel in that house is strong and I have a hard time feeling compassion for her. Have any of you faced anything like this?

[Ultralight]

Tenngal:

Sorry you have gone through this and that you continue to.

What are the other options you considered for dealing with your mom, not just in this scenario but on the whole?

[Tenngal]

Tenngal:

Sorry you have gone through this and that you continue to.

What are the other options you considered for dealing with your mom, not just in this scenario but on the whole?


I would like to break all contact with her.

Over the past couple of years she has complained about maintenance on her house and I tried to encourage her to move into Sr. apts.

She always says "no, I am going to die in my house."

which apparently means she thinks she has 3 girls who will be her caregivers.

I know 2 who will not.

[Ultralight]

It is tough to sever all ties. It almost feels like that would be going against human nature.

But... as I noted on another thread, I had a falling out with my dad (and in a way with my mom too) and have not spoken to them in weeks. They have not attempted contact and neither have I.

This has been quite refreshing. I don't worry about their health, their hoarding, the clash of values we have, etc.

So signing someone off can be really good, whether it is temporary or forever.

But... Could you just give breaking all contact a trial run? Like for 3 months? 6 months? Something like that...?

[iris lilies]

I would like to break all contact with her.

Over the past couple of years she has complained about maintenance on her house and I tried to encourage her to move into Sr. apts.

She always says "no, I am going to die in my house."

which apparently means she thinks she has 3 girls who will be her caregivers.

I know 2 who will not.

That is a reasonable boundary for even children who get along well with their parents. Stay out of the house maintenance issues. If she want to stay in a property she does not have resources* to maintain, that is on her.

But I do realize that it isnt that simple, her property and her own health and safety are intertwined.

i thnk it is great that you are willing to take her to dr appointments. You would nt be a good caregiver for her by your own admission, and you are doing somethng important with the dr appts.


*resources=her own time, skills, strength or those of her friends and family or money to pay for it all

[Teacher Terry]

At your Mom's advanced age I would not break all contact but set boundaries like you have been doing. My relationship with my parents was great but not so much with my siblings. It got worse when my Mom was sick and we were coordinating helping her out, etc. By the time it was over I no longer have any contact with my brother and only email with my sister and occasional phone call. No more visits, etc. I know this must be a really difficult situation.

[Ultralight]

Tenngal:

What positive contributions does your mom currently make in your life?

[razz]

Regardless of history, one needs to set boundaries for one's time and effort. No one owns another ever, IMO anyway.
Any attempt at manipulation by one party to control another regardless of age or relationship should dealt with as such. You can go along with it, define and state your boundaries and uphold them repeating as necessary or withdraw.

Having said that, if you can discuss the situation with siblings it will be easier but you still need to define what works for you and examine the consequences of doing so.

I offered to set up a separate granny flat at our farm home with DH's support but my mother declined to leave her home. The maintenance was neglected, many issues evolved, one sister assisted onsite which suited her needs at the time. We visited when we could and did some limited assistance but my mother was mentally competent to make her decisions so we left her to it. That was our choice andI have no regrets.

After her passing, we found out from neighbours that she had had needs that should have been addressed but with no information, our hands were tied.

Bottom line - there is no perfect solution. Don't try for it. Do what you can live with but set your boundaries and stick to them.

[CathyA]

Tenngal........I feel your pain. I had an abusive father and a mother who looked the other way, and also would suck all the air out of the room. She was a 4 year old emotionally. As I got older, I tolerated it all less and less. I divorced my father when I was about 34 (I'm 66 now) and my mother when I was about 45 (even though we paid for a lot of her rent and utilities). I quit calling her or letting her babysit my kids. She no longer was invited to any get-togethers. I felt that I had to do this in order to free myself from her. It sounds like you're in a similar situation. Maybe I'm a bad person to ask, but I would encourage you to cut all ties......if you feel your own emotional health is constantly at risk if you keep trying to be "a good little girl". Even if it makes your sister(s) angry, I say do what you need to do. Many years of my life was spent in trying to suppress my anger and disappointment with her, and I felt an incredible freedom when I cut her loose.

I do have to add, though, that when the police called about 7 years ago and said she was found driving far from her home, weaving through traffic and confused, I had to do something with her. I had her hospitalized, then moved to a nursing home. I made sure she was taken care of, but didn't visit her very often............I'm not sure she even knew I was there or not.

I know your mother says she will never move from her home........but if it's affecting all 3 of her children, then maybe it's time to move her somewhere where the stress and demand is not all on you 3?

Just try to be kind to yourself. Why should you feel guilt, when she treated you the way she did all those years? Maybe I'm thinking your situation is too much like mine........but I honestly feel that if parents haven't been good to their children......their children shouldn't feel much responsibility for their parents later. Good luck to you, and try to stop feeling guilty!

[sweetana3]

I don't know if it is possible in your situation but I think it would be best, if possible, for the sisters to sit down and discuss as much as possible. Lay out your boundaries so they are clear and your sisters are not in the dark. Maybe the 3 of you can come up with some creative solutions or at least provide a united front.

You have the right to expect your mother to make rational decisions and to also live with the decisions she makes. We have been thru it and it is hard. Parents who should have moved closer a decade earlier would have had a much better life. (Mom has said this herself now that she has lived here for 4 years and seen how nice it could have been.) But it was a choice they made and we let them.

[Teacher Terry]

The thing is you can't make a competent adult do anything. Yes it would be better if she moved to an apartment, etc. You can try to convince her but until she becomes incompetent there is nothing to be done.

[Tenngal]

Tenngal:

What positive contributions does your mom currently make in your life?

none

[Tenngal]

thanks for all the thoughtful replies. My worst fear at this point, is losing my sister over the fact she feels we don't support her. I am setting my boundaries and will stick with them. I am 60 yrs old but when in her house, I am reduced to a fearful 10 yr old once again.

[iris lilies]

thanks for all the thoughtful replies. My worst fear at this point, is losing my sister over the fact she feels we don't support her. I am setting my boundaries and will stick with them. I am 60 yrs old but when in her house, I am reduced to a fearful 10 yr old once again.
If your sister is hell bent on the idea that Her ideas are the only valid ideas about taking care of you mother, then yes, you may "lose" her. That would be her choice, though, to drop relations with you when you define what you will and will not do.

personally, I think some people, and usually they are women, love getting their fingers all into someone else's life and they seem to want to drag everyone else into silly details that do not matter, in the long run.

we have to accept that in aging, some life issues and events change and not for the better. A relaxation of standards for cleanliness, nutrition, mobility, property upkeep, etc. seems to me to be normal. So many people rail against any change and thatbis ok, as long as they are willing ro,step up to provide help in meeting those old standards.

I like razz' summary very much. One has to step back and let the senior parent make his/her choices and live the consequences. And one has to step back and let busybusy siblings fuss with that senior parent's life if that is what that sibling chooses to do.

[Ultralight]

none

Then why not immediately cease all contact? Explain to your sisters. Then walk away.

[Teacher Terry]

If sister ends up mad that will be her choice. By choosing to help within your own healthy boundaries you won't have any regrets later about your Mom.

[Gardenarian]

I'm so sorry you're going through this. It's very good that you're setting limits now.

I moved 3,000 miles from my parents. That seemed to be about the right amount of distance.

[freshstart]

If sister ends up mad that will be her choice. By choosing to help within your own healthy boundaries you won't have any regrets later about your Mom.

I agree with this. Taking her to appts is more than enough.

I grew up in a home with a verbally/physically abusive father and a verbally abusive mother who did nothing to stop the abuse heaped on her kids. My dad changed (he went on an antidepressant for pain 20+ yrs ago and it totally changed his personality) and I have resolved my issues with him. My mother never changed, nor tried but we are close in a dysfunctional way that I hate. I love her, I hate her behavior.

Several yrs ago, my mother reached the end stage of a disease she has, she is very slowly dying and suffering a great deal. I was a hospice nurse and wanted to be her "nurse" and my home had become too big for just me. I moved into a handicapped equipped house with them. It was a huge decision because she pushes every last one of my buttons and just because someone is dying, it doesn't change them into a different person, at least not with her. But I felt guilty and wanted to help my dad so I did it. (thank God I did because I got sick and needed my dad to take care of me, but that's not the point). It has turned out that the worse she feels, the worse she is to me. It is very, very difficult to hold my tongue and sometimes I don't. I actually have verbal fights with her and that just increases the guilt more. I realize now that a decision made out of guilt is a bad one. If I didn't have the buffer of my father, I would go batshit crazy trying to take care of her and please her.

I would stand your ground and point out what you are doing for her and that it is all that you are able to contribute. Your sisters should understand based on your shared childhood and if they don't, that's on them. To me, if a parent was abusive, they should reap what they sowed and not expect care needs to be met when they didn't meet your needs as a child. My mother just happens to be lucky that guilt is a powerful motivator for me. I wish you luck.

[Simplemind]

I am currently up to my eyebrows in a similar situation. I will tell you from my own perspective that your problem is not your mother, it is your siblings. Guilt is a powerful motivator but a poor one. I am the oldest and our mother (same issues as yours) passed four years ago with dementia. The siblings who had been somewhat estranged, drew together in my mom's final days. We decided to keep working on our relationships as we moved to the future keeping an eye on dad. Low and behold, mom's "big personality" had been hiding that dad was in his early stages of dementia. Fast forward.......... all the guilt from what was not done for mom and what was missed in dad is coming into play.
I love my siblings but honestly, if I was an only child things would have played out differently and sooner. They are passive and don't want dad to be mad. Although I get lip service of how they will take responsibility it never comes to pass because "it is too soon", "dad isn't that bad". I ended up taking the license away, moving him out of his home and recently from independent living to memory care. I knew for months he needed to be moved. They wanted to patch it together by each of us taking a different day visiting and taking him to appointments.
The elephant was in the room and sitting on their laps. I told them I was scouting memory care options and there were tears and offers (offers only) to do more but we couldn't "lock dad up". Tears and guilt (theirs) which just made me fume. It is a delay tactic. A week ago on my sisters watch she called dad to say she couldn't make it to dinner. He must have misunderstood because from what we can tell he went and sat out front at 5:30 and was still there at 11P. Then Monday night he wandered away and got lost. When I found out Tuesday morning I contacted one of the places I had visited and got him in that day. I had him moved in three hours. NO help from my siblings who were ringing their hands and clutching their pearls.
I have a great sense of peace because I know he is in capable (trained) hands 24/7. I will now be able to be a daughter who visits when I wish as opposed to a reluctant caregiver who didn't want the job. My dh had a stroke four years ago and I deal with that at home and this has been too much. Dementia is a sad thing. My mom was unreasonable when she had her marbles and even more so I the end. Dad was reasonable (but absent) when he had his marbles and is easy going even with dementia.
I wanted to preserve a relationship with my siblings after my parents were gone but honestly it is going to be a push. All along the process I have told them that I care about their feelings and appreciate their input but when it is time to bust a move I'm not waiting for them to be comfortable with it. Not knowing what to do is no excuse for doing nothing. Guilt should not paint you into a corner. I have never had a problem saying no.
I have been careful to tell them that I would never interfere with any kind of relationship they have with dad. My sister is peeved that everything isn't even and that my brother doesn't put in his time. I don't care. I really don't. I have the responsibility to make sure that he is cared for but I know that it is more than I can handle. There is no guilt for turning it over. The two of them will have to come to terms on it in their own way. I'm not babysitting their feelings.
Be clear about what you are willing and not willing to do. Lather, rinse, repeat. If they act the martyr then point out that there are other choices and you are not one of them.

[sweetana3]

Simplemind, that was a powerful post. Thank you.

[razz]

Simplemind, that was a powerful post. Thank you.

Excellent post and so important that you did. It covered the sense of guilt and what it really is all about.

[Gardnr]

My mother was abusive as we three girls were growing up. Mostly verbal and emotional with some physical thrown in. I am able to take some time off and will be glad to drive her to Dr appts and such. I will not be staying with her. Informed sister of this. Still, I feel guilty, but not enough to change my mind. The sense of dread I feel in that house is strong and I have a hard time feeling compassion for her. Have any of you faced anything like this?

I am blessed that I have not had this experience. As I read your post, it feels to me like you have given tremendous thought to your relationship with your mother. You have determined what you will and won't do.

And above all, you have made YOU the priority in caring for yourself. CONGRATULATIONS on this HUGE step...a very difficult task for the abused.

I completely support you standing your ground. Perhaps a face to face with your sisters (together if at all possible), to walk them through the personal journey to get to "here". Ask them for their support of you. And then accept their decision.

I applaud your decisions. You owe your mother nothing. YOU DESERVE to feel safe, healthy and happy.

[Simplemind]

My sister is now having her own health issues due to the stress. I told her I could no longer bear the burden of her anxieties. She talks a great game but is always late or has to change her plans and asks me to cover for her. I finally started telling her no. It was a way for me to show her that life happens and we were not equipped to cover as a family. He was either going to go without or we needed to change the arrangement. She would get angry because in her mind I could easily do it because I was retired and she was still working.
I told her it would be criminal to leave a young child unattended in a home for hours. This was really no different with his dementia and I would not allow the arrangement any longer. It didn't matter what dad wanted because he was not of right mind but we certainly were. I would have appreciated her acknowledgement of the situation and her support. Even without it I had to move forward. It was then flipped on me that it wasn't really about Dad's safety but more for my own selfishness because I wanted my three days back to myself. I won't lie that there was truth in both and I own it. I knew he wasn't safe and I knew I couldn't be awake 24/7 to watch him.
There was verbal abuse, neglect and alcoholism in our family. Functional dysfunction. There was a trust written back in 2008 and I took responsibility to carry things out in the end because I knew my siblings could/would never handle it. I left home right after HS. I always referred to it as the house of pain. Knowing I would have eventual responsibility for everything felt oppressive every time I entered the property. My parents wanted to stay in the house until their deaths. That would have been great if they lived a good life and died simple deaths. But no................. we had dementia and hoarding. Mom turned into Mrs. Havisham and dad turned into a ghost. Children of alcoholics become masters of not seeing what is really in front of them. We were not the Brady Bunch. You can't rework the past by swapping places and parenting your parent. For over 6 months I was suffering horrible reflux while trying to keep all the plates spinning and family and feelings together. From the moment I made the decision to move dad and let my sibling figure out their own relationships and feelings I haven't needed to nibble on a single antacid and have slept like a baby. I should have taken my counselors advice months ago. He told me if you keep feeding the pigeons you are just training them to let you take care of them. So looking forward to not worrying about anything but what is happening under my own roof.
I apologize for such longs posts but as you can see.............. I'm right in it this week and still have a lot of energy behind it.

[ApatheticNoMore]

It must be nice to even have the money to have the option to move parents into a home if applicable (homes are very expensive, aren't they?). Seriously this has got to be a very small portion of the population that even has that kind of money or inherited assets. I don't think I'd be able to, I don't know what I'd do, I also can't quit my job, I don't think about the future mostly, I hope people die peacefully and healthily in their sleep. because I am not rich enough to do anything but neither are most people probably, there is no good answers to things, life sucks in this country.

[freshstart]

In NY and I assume elsewhere, Medicaid pays for nursing home care after the assets run dry. If there are no assets to begin with, there are usually county homes. They don't pay for assisted living or such.

[Simplemind]

I always say that I don't plan for a hurricane while I'm standing in the middle of one. Yes, wouldn't it be nice to be "rich".
We also take care of my husband's mother. Her assets have now dropped to the point where she is eligible for Medicaid as well as Veteran's benefits. Starting tomorrow we will be looking for a similar living arrangement for her. She has been in assisted living and that is spendy.
In my dad's case I had a few years in advance to start climbing the pile of stuff and sell off what was salvageable. We then downsized him to an apartment in a senior community while I liquidated the rest of the assets. After all this was done it was time to look at memory care. What I found was much less than had I put him in a corporate run memory care. It was pretty much what we were already paying for his rent and his meals in independent living. A friend is a Senior Care Advisor and helped me find this place that I most likely wouldn't have found on my own given I was in a time crunch for safety.

[Lainey]

I'm sorry you had to manage this on your own, Simplemind. Another example of how having siblings doesn't mean that responsibilities will be shared. Reminds me of a TV show where one of the characters sighed and complained, "Why do *I* always have to be the adult?" I know it gets wearying because I have had some days like that too, although fortunately they're all now in the past.

Don't apologize for your long posts - this issue is something most of us here have faced or will be facing, so sharing these experiences is very helpful.

[iris lilies]

In NY and I assume elsewhere, Medicaid pays for nursing home care after the assets run dry. If there are no assets to begin with, there are usually county homes. They don't pay for assisted living or such.
For ANM--

To be clear, they have to qualify by being in need of medical care.

Just being frail and a bit forgetful and without relatives to look in on them doesn't mean they quality for medical care.

[Tenngal]

I am currently up to my eyebrows in a similar situation. I will tell you from my own perspective that your problem is not your mother, it is your siblings. Guilt is a powerful motivator but a poor one. I am the oldest and our mother (same issues as yours) passed four years ago with dementia. The siblings who had been somewhat estranged, drew together in my mom's final days. We decided to keep working on our relationships as we moved to the future keeping an eye on dad. Low and behold, mom's "big personality" had been hiding that dad was in his early stages of dementia. Fast forward.......... all the guilt from what was not done for mom and what was missed in dad is coming into play.
I love my siblings but honestly, if I was an only child things would have played out differently and sooner. They are passive and don't want dad to be mad. Although I get lip service of how they will take responsibility it never comes to pass because "it is too soon", "dad isn't that bad". I ended up taking the license away, moving him out of his home and recently from independent living to memory care. I knew for months he needed to be moved. They wanted to patch it together by each of us taking a different day visiting and taking him to appointments.
The elephant was in the room and sitting on their laps. I told them I was scouting memory care options and there were tears and offers (offers only) to do more but we couldn't "lock dad up". Tears and guilt (theirs) which just made me fume. It is a delay tactic. A week ago on my sisters watch she called dad to say she couldn't make it to dinner. He must have misunderstood because from what we can tell he went and sat out front at 5:30 and was still there at 11P. Then Monday night he wandered away and got lost. When I found out Tuesday morning I contacted one of the places I had visited and got him in that day. I had him moved in three hours. NO help from my siblings who were ringing their hands and clutching their pearls.
I have a great sense of peace because I know he is in capable (trained) hands 24/7. I will now be able to be a daughter who visits when I wish as opposed to a reluctant caregiver who didn't want the job. My dh had a stroke four years ago and I deal with that at home and this has been too much. Dementia is a sad thing. My mom was unreasonable when she had her marbles and even more so I the end. Dad was reasonable (but absent) when he had his marbles and is easy going even with dementia.
I wanted to preserve a relationship with my siblings after my parents were gone but honestly it is going to be a push. All along the process I have told them that I care about their feelings and appreciate their input but when it is time to bust a move I'm not waiting for them to be comfortable with it. Not knowing what to do is no excuse for doing nothing. Guilt should not paint you into a corner. I have never had a problem saying no.
I have been careful to tell them that I would never interfere with any kind of relationship they have with dad. My sister is peeved that everything isn't even and that my brother doesn't put in his time. I don't care. I really don't. I have the responsibility to make sure that he is cared for but I know that it is more than I can handle. There is no guilt for turning it over. The two of them will have to come to terms on it in their own way. I'm not babysitting their feelings.
Be clear about what you are willing and not willing to do. Lather, rinse, repeat. If they act the martyr then point out that there are other choices and you are not one of them.

Thanks for this post. The last sentence says it all. I have set my boundaries and hope they were listening. Mother is a damaged creature who gave all her children life long problems. It has taken many years to sort all this out.