View Full Version : Presidential Debate
CNN is calling the debate "the most anticipated moment in US politics", and predicting an audience in the Superbowl range.
I don't know about that, but I'll probably tune in to watch the Doyenne of Deceit vs. the Master Bombaster. It will almost certainly be a disgusting battle of cliches and sneers, but somehow I can't look away.
Yup--I can't wait. I haven't anticipated anything on TV this much since the annual network showing of The Wizard of Oz back in the 60s. So--who is going to get us out of Oz and back home to Kansas? Who IS the Great and Powerful Wizard?
iris lilies
9-26-16, 10:01am
I cant watch it,mjust cannot bring myself to watch.
Jerry! Jerry! Jerry! (as in Springer) I just keep hoping I'll wake up soon.
I remember thinking way back in the primaries, wouldn't it be very interesting if the debate was Clinton/Trump. Of course Bernie/Trump would have been my preference, but it should be a landmark event. I'm working on food and beverage pairings for the show. So far it's southwest food with lots of beans and a sour Belgium style beer. Maybe a stinky cheese.
I'd rather go kayaking but since it'll be getting dark maybe I'll go watch at the pub...a few drinks and I won't care who is debating; or I'll sit in a dark closet and just rock back and forth, I'm so disappointed.
Ha! Master Baiter would be more appropriate.
This political season has resulted in a drastic reduction in my TV watching. I used to be a news junkie, but no more, since it's all Trump all the time now.
I won't watch the debate; I might catch a rerun on ID.
We will lie in bed and watch the twitter feed.
I just can't imagine that Trump will have any facts about any topic.
Ultralight
9-26-16, 12:04pm
A good friend of mine is an impoverished single mom of three kids, with 2 baby-daddies who are mostly not involved.
She is often shouting at me about how Crooked Hillary is "THE champion for women and children."
I hope that she watches the debate and realizes how this is not true.
Besides, I think what we will see is the first half of what Barry said of Crooked.
He said: "She will say anything and do nothing."
Tonight we see the "say anything" part!
ApatheticNoMore
9-26-16, 12:14pm
Be at work or commuting (it's still fairly early in pacific time), that's the truth, may read some of the transcripts and some youtube or some articles afterward maybe. I don't consider it virtuous or civic duty to watch it, not at all, it has all the virtues of eating cupcakes, it is pure reality t.v., it has all the civic responsibility of watching honey boo boo (which I have unfortunately watched like twice or so).
It won't be pure cliche I don't think, Trump will help that. Now what he says may be of not much more value than cliche, a bunch of brags and so on. But he takes it out of the realm of pure cliche at least into a demonstration of narcissism for the pscyhology professors to give to their students in the future. If we had a conventional R candidate as well, then we would have pure cliche.
catherine
9-26-16, 12:33pm
A good friend of mine is an impoverished single mom of three kids, with 2 baby-daddies who are mostly not involved.
Well, if I were concerned about adding another baby daddy to the list of my acquaintances, I know who I'd vote for, and it wouldn't be Trump.
ApatheticNoMore
9-26-16, 12:46pm
Well, if I were concerned about adding another baby daddy to the list of my acquaintances, I know who I'd vote for, and it wouldn't be Trump.
yea although of course if her husband had never been president enacting policies she might be in better shape (Bill Clinton after all ended AFDC welfare which might make her less impoverished if it still existed).
I remember thinking way back in the primaries, wouldn't it be very interesting if the debate was Clinton/Trump. Of course Bernie/Trump would have been my preference, but it should be a landmark event. I'm working on food and beverage pairings for the show. So far it's southwest food with lots of beans and a sour Belgium style beer. Maybe a stinky cheese.
According to the New Yorker, liquor stores are experiencing a huge bump in sales as the nation attempts to self-medicate for the debate.
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/more-americans-expected-to-self-medicate-than-for-any-other-debate-in-history
iris lilies
9-26-16, 2:12pm
According to the New Yorker, liquor stores are experiencing a huge bump in sales as the nation attempts to self-medicate for the debate.
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/more-americans-expected-to-self-medicate-than-for-any-other-debate-in-history
Hahaha!
But the alcohol wont help us.
Ultralight
9-26-16, 2:27pm
yea although of course if her husband had never been president enacting policies she might be in better shape (Bill Clinton after all ended AFDC welfare which might make her less impoverished if it still existed).
Most folks are gullible. She is unfortunately very much so. This is sad... I just see her make bad choice after bad choice. And this is from a guy (me) who has made plenty of bad choices.
Ultralight
9-26-16, 2:28pm
Well, if I were concerned about adding another baby daddy to the list of my acquaintances, I know who I'd vote for, and it wouldn't be Trump.
She is not entirely opposed to the idea of another baby-daddy. It depends mostly on if the guy is interested.
According to the New Yorker, liquor stores are experiencing a huge bump in sales as the nation attempts to self-medicate for the debate.
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/more-americans-expected-to-self-medicate-than-for-any-other-debate-in-history
Interesting. I wonder how much is self-medication and how much people seem to enjoy gladiator sports paired with alcohol.
It's gotten better, but it's too bad the various fact checkers don't get some real time comments in. I'm sure there will be misinformation, which could be rampant.
Interesting. I wonder how much is self-medication and how much people seem to enjoy gladiator sports paired with alcohol.
It's gotten better, but it's too bad the various fact checkers don't get some real time comments in. I'm sure there will be misinformation, which could be rampant.
There's a version of the old "Hi Bob" drinking game, where you need to drink every time someone says "fact check".
Although incidents like Candy Crowley's gift to Obama in 2012, or Politifact calling the same statistic "mostly true" when Bernie quoted it and "mostly false" when Trump did makes me question the objectivity of anyone setting themselves up as the arbiter of truth.
http://donsurber.blogspot.com/2016/09/mostly-true-when-bernie-said-it-mostly.html
I'm reading a lot of Lester Holt's colleagues are pushing him to take a Crowleyesque roll in the proceedings. His integrity is sure to be tested this evening.
I'm doubting facts will be an important factor tonight. I agree with those who say it will be about Clinton trying to convince us she's honest and Trump trying to convince us he's sane.
LDAHL, If I were to play the "Hi Bob" game I might end up in the bag early in the debate. But I agree that the facts may not be as important as the image each wishes to present (or the image they would most like to discredit in their opponent). And it will be also interesting to see what role the moderators will take in challenging what is presented. If there is not an unbiased "fact checker" that can be trusted as being neutral either in real time or afterwards, it seems like the only source left for a concise summary is the general media which seems to fall into one camp or another rather than claiming some sort of independence.
I don't think it's the moderators job to act as fact checker, it's our job. Four years ago moderator fact checking changed the outcome of a debate, and the moderator was wrong.
flowerseverywhere
9-26-16, 7:17pm
I don't think it's the moderators job to act as fact checker, it's our job. Four years ago moderator fact checking changed the outcome of a debate, and the moderator was wrong.
well we are doing a poor job of it. No matter what lie either candidate says I doubt many will change their mind.
well we are doing a poor job of it. No matter what lie either candidate says I doubt many will change their mind.
I do not expect the debates tonight to change my opinion of either of these two candidates.
I do not expect the debates tonight to change my opinion of either of these two candidates.
I think the debates are primarily for a) folks who want to cheer their candidate and boo the other and b) folks hoping to see a train wreck on live TV.
catherine
9-26-16, 11:10pm
I think the debates are primarily for a) folks who want to cheer their candidate and boo the other and b) folks hoping to see a train wreck on live TV.
I simply watched to see the next chapter in this saga. Did anyone watch? Any thoughts?
I don't think there was a clear winner. It was a bit boring, actually. Same stump lines they've been saying all year.
I had enough information before the debates to make a solid opinion of each, but it remains a point of interest to me how they come off to the public. I did not think there was a clear "winner". Clinton was not especially well spoken in my opinion, but that was offset by Trump's reversion to his angry self later in the debate. Trump lost points on his veracity around our involvement in Iraq and the birther issues. Clinton lost points on coming off as something more than a career politician. I didn't get much clear substance from either and did not find much that was inspiring. Basically, no surprises.
They reduced Dancing with the Stars for it or I wouldn't have known it was on. I also have either the flu or a virus so I was not really in the mood to see Trump's pouty face again. I had to mute it most of the time. So, Trump hasn't released his tax forms - and why not? That is the major thing that I learned. He is a rich man - why doesn't he pay off the national debt? Forgive me - I feel lousy but that is what I was thinking the whole time. Also, why can't he just embrace his baldness like most men do?
He is a rich man - why doesn't he pay off the national debt? Forgive me - I feel lousy but that is what I was thinking the whole time.
*Nobody* is that rich. The national debt is about $19.5 trillion. Trump claims a net worth of $10 billion. If he gave away every single penny, that wouldn't put a dent in the debt, which increased about $1 million in the time it took me to type this.
Ultralight
9-27-16, 7:48am
So Trump won this debate, right?
I simply watched to see the next chapter in this saga. Did anyone watch? Any thoughts?
I don't think there was a clear winner. It was a bit boring, actually. Same stump lines they've been saying all year.
I couldn't make myself watch - I did read through some of the transcript (much less painful) and thought the same - Clinton was Clinton, and Trump was Trump.
So Trump won this debate, right?
I just read CNN, NYT, and BBC, and it seems that most people agree that Clinton won. Not to say she changed her prospects to win, because she was still too unapproachable and lawyerly, but she was the master debater with her solid preparation and handling of the facts which she used against Trump often. That's pretty much what I saw.
General consensus was that he dominated the first 20 minutes but then lost steam while she continued to use his own words against him. In terms of what matters on TV--appearance--she looked great, smiled, and looked very presidential in a blazing red pantsuit while he grimaced, sniffled constantly and frequently reached for water. (I know. Seems trivial, but it all made him seem a little fidgety like a kid in a classroom and Hillary came off as the professor)
I am still giggling when I think of a word that Trump used to describe some action of his - "bigly". What a great word!
iris lilies
9-27-16, 10:25am
I am still giggling when I think of a word that Trump used to describe some action of his - "bigly". What a great word!
i remember when the holier-than-thou media made fun of GW Bush for usng the word "decider" as in " I am the decider." But it is a real word, and I have since adopted it and use it when I can. It is two syllables less than "decision maker" and I like reducing syllables.
I rarely join the political threads but here goes...
I liked the debate. But I can't figure out why the moderators have such a hard time keeping some candidates from steam rolling the whole thing. Maybe have an off switch for the mike?
I thought both of them were true to form and liked how Hillary kept her calm throughout even though Trump became a belligerent bully for most of it.
I also keep wondering why people keep harping about Hillary needing to be more 'likable' and 'visionary'. I get that we want to be wowed but haven't we learned that flash doesn't mean substance? We have celebrities for wow. Why do our political workers need to have it too? And frankly, I don't need to 'like' the president, but I do need to trust that he/she can handle the job. Trump is scary. It scares me to think that he might have control over what happens in my life. And I do like Hillary. I like her long-term commitment to public service and her determination and hard work. More importantly, I respect her. Do I trust her with my future? Yeah, I do.
catherine
9-27-16, 10:54am
I also keep wondering why people keep harping about Hillary needing to be more 'likable' and 'visionary'. I get that we want to be wowed but haven't we learned that flash doesn't mean substance?
Nope. We're human, and we want to be spangled and wowed. It's in our nature. We are dying to be inspired.
Nope. We're human, and we want to be spangled and wowed. It's in our nature. We are dying to be inspired.
I guess I see inspiration as something internal. Maybe when we're young and everything is new, we might feel the need/desire for external guidance, especially if we were lacking it in our formative years and environment. But at some point we need to find that inner inspiration and guidance for ourselves, the values and ideals that are true for us. I don't need to be spangled and wowed. It's easy to be charming and flashy. Actors do it all the time. And we compensate them well for it. I enjoy watching movies as much as the next person. But that's not what I want or need in a person who has control and power over my life and livelihood.
ApatheticNoMore
9-27-16, 12:36pm
I think most people are pretty cynical of such manipulated inspiration at this point, hey decades and decades of Madison Ave., and who wouldn't be? But it can occasionally be done well. But like hypnosis, it can't get you do anything you don't want to anyway.
I get so sick of people over-talking others.....especially when the moderators tell them to stop. Politicians seem to do that the best (worst). I think they should have shock collars on and when the mod wants them to stop talking...........ZAP!!
But I can't figure out why the moderators have such a hard time keeping some candidates from steam rolling the whole thing. Maybe have an off switch for the mike?
What a brilliant idea! Only don't put the off switch in the mods hands because then everyone would still blame the mods for all their candidates slips. Just put it on a timer. Two minutes and boom! And during the two minutes the other candidate(s) mikes would be off. That would be so civilized...and gawd awful boring.
My thought was that Hilary won just because Trump was so easy to bait. Still kinda wish she'd have mentioned his small hands. Its like a car wreck, you can't look away. In any case it was pretty much the theater I expected and didn't change my mind about either candidate. He will probably be better schooled in the next one. If he shows up.
Teacher Terry
9-27-16, 4:22pm
I watched it and could not believe how bad he did. A little preparation might have helped.
flowerseverywhere
9-27-16, 4:27pm
During the primary debate didn't they use a red light system? You get a warning then your Mike goes off.
One of Trumps classics was blaming the computer hacks on some 400 lb. person sitting in bed, who knows? What the hell are you talking about. You could not have said some person laying around in bed? Lets estrange women, Latinos, obese people, African Americans, Muslims... Did I leave anyone out? Oh, stop and frisk is a great idea. That will surely calm down the racial unrest.
I can't imagine many people changed their vote. Very little substance.
by the way, he continued to bad mouth the miss Universe candidate today.
ApatheticNoMore
9-27-16, 5:47pm
One of Trumps classics was blaming the computer hacks on some 400 lb. person sitting in bed, who knows? What the hell are you talking about. You could not have said some person laying around in bed? Lets estrange women, Latinos, obese people, African Americans, Muslims...
I found this infinitely less offensive than blaming it on Russia. Of course it could be true that it was Russia, but there is no evidence of that. Hillary just went on t.v. and lied to the whole wide world. And what kind of lie is that anyway, shouldn't we want diplomacy with I don't know a nuclear power like Russia, unless we have actual incontrovertible proof, which we don't? The 400lb person was just a cheap stereotype about "fat nerds that live in their parent's basement" or something (wearing glasses and never getting any action probably - hey that's the stereotype). I suppose there might be a nerd advocacy group terribly offended somewhere but really, it sucks but it's just a cheap stereotype, it's not itching for trouble with a nuclear power which is what Clinton was doing which is way more serious.
freshstart
9-27-16, 6:10pm
I stopped watching once he questioned Clinton's stamina. She came back from it well, pointing out she had been Secretary of State and visited 112 countries and was a senator, etc, etc. But for him to even say that makes it impossible for me to understand how any woman would want that idiot representing them. He has zero respect for women (or people of color, or the obese, etc, etc). As for stamina, he doesn't look like he could keep up with Clinton for a day when it comes down to real work, not bloviating on Fox.
gimmethesimplelife
9-28-16, 10:34am
I watched part of the debate with my in-laws as I was listing books online. I passed up a banquet shift to watch the debate - I had to see if access to affordable health and dental care in Mexico were going to be threatened for millions of desperate Americans not worth access to such care on the US. It is a really big deal who wins as this election could well cut off access to basic human rights available at much saner prices in Mexico. I was relieved to see Trump stumble and bumble and to see Hillary hold her own. I don't want to jinx it but I do have some faith that Hillary will get in and that across the border access to affordable health and dental care will not be jeopardized by Trump. Rob
Apparently the Miss Universe story that Hillary told, which Donald responded in the worst possible way to, was planned. Several magazines had already prepared articles about the woman to be run after the debate ended.
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/9/27/13079878/alicia-machado-trap
flowerseverywhere
9-28-16, 12:53pm
I found this infinitely less offensive than blaming it on Russia. Of course it could be true that it was Russia, but there is no evidence of that. Hillary just went on t.v. and lied to the whole wide world. And what kind of lie is that anyway, shouldn't we want diplomacy with I don't know a nuclear power like Russia, unless we have actual incontrovertible proof, which we don't? The 400lb person was just a cheap stereotype about "fat nerds that live in their parent's basement" or something (wearing glasses and never getting any action probably - hey that's the stereotype). I suppose there might be a nerd advocacy group terribly offended somewhere but really, it sucks but it's just a cheap stereotype, it's not itching for trouble with a nuclear power which is what Clinton was doing which is way more serious.
I never said Clinton was good or a better choice. I am trying to figure out who to vote for but every time Trump opens his mouth with a demeaning comment it pushes me away from him. I also find some of his attitudes ill informed. You obviously know Hillary's shortcomings. I am not going to argue about this, as I have found this particular election to make people crazy mean and hateful and we all have the right to our opinions. It seems that people who are pro Trump or Pro Hillary are unswayable regardless of what they say or do. I'll be glad when this is over.
I never said Clinton was good or a better choice. I am trying to figure out who to vote for but every time Trump opens his mouth with a demeaning comment it pushes me away from him. I also find some of his attitudes ill informed. You obviously know Hillary's shortcomings. I am not going to argue about this, as I have found this particular election to make people crazy mean and hateful and we all have the right to our opinions. It seems that people who are pro Trump or Pro Hillary are unswayable regardless of what they say or do. I'll be glad when this is over.
I can definitely relate to this dilemma, flowers. I decided yesterday, after watching the debate, that I am voting for Jill Stein.
This is in no way a "wasted vote." It is an expression of my belief that she is the best candidate.
And I am hoping that before the election, Hillary is no longer the candidate and Bernie is the Dem candidate. In that event, I will vote Bernie. And be proud and happy to do so.
I came to this decision after researching #stonetear.
Ultralight
9-28-16, 1:11pm
A vote for Jill Stein is a vote for Trump or maybe for Hillary, though I suppose it could be a vote for Jill Stein. I dunno!
Teacher Terry
9-28-16, 2:03pm
Rob, the electoral college exists for a reason-to prevent people from being stupid. Right now Clinton has enough to win. she is winning in the states that matter. Tybee: I don't know what planet you live on but Bernie is not going to be the candidate.
A vote for Jill Stein is a vote for Trump or maybe for Hillary, though I suppose it could be a vote for Jill Stein. I dunno!
I think it depends on whether you live in a swing state or not.
Teacher Terry, I live on the same planet that you do, and do not wish to see it blown up by either of the two war mongering candidates.
Those of you who want to tell me I am wasting my vote, read this interview with Ralph Nader, who says it better than I ever could:
http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2016/06/17/ralph-nader-politics
flowerseverywhere
9-28-16, 4:47pm
I think it depends on whether you live in a swing state or not.
I live in Florida, where we have the fourth largest number of electoral votes in the country at 29. Per the polls it is a dead heat.
I would prefer not to vote for Hillary but these things bother me.
first, how can a citizen with no high level briefings or military experience know more about Isis than the generals?
all we know about His success is what he tells us
it is easy to say I gave millions in charity. Out of your own pocket? To whom?
And as I mentioned before, it scares me to have such an angry old man at the helm of the most important country on earth. One who sparred with a gold star mother and insulted her. One who stoops to name calling and insults. One who does not seem very respectful of our troops in leadership positions.
So I wish I could trust him but all I see is someone who boasts and says how awful his opponent is. I see little substance and I am looking for it. Where are the concrete facts that he cares about the future of this country's average citizens?
We we also must not forget that the President will be appointing at least one Supreme Court justice, and this has far reaching effects. The Middle East will continue to be a hotspot. Europe is struggling with Brexit, immigrants among other problems. North Korea and Russia are always dangerous and cybercrime is a very real thing.
So so I do not take my decision to vote lightly. I am searching for facts, not rhetoric, criticism and boasting.
Hey, I just looked up the categorical imperative, thank you Mr. Kant, and I think it applies equally to this situation as to why I should vote for Jill Stein:
'Act only according to that maxim (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxim_(philosophy)) whereby you can, at the same time, will that it should become a universal law."
And Jill Stein supports universal health care for all.
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