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Merski
4-25-11, 4:52pm
Just found out today our nephew will be transgendering into a female over the next few years. His mom (my sister) thought we would think this was horrible but we gave him a hug told him that we were happy for him and that we know he didn't make this decision blithely. Anyone else with a transgendered family member? I'm going to do some reading but our support and love for him is unconditional. I hope I don't get blocked!

CathyA
4-25-11, 5:00pm
Why would you get blocked??
I think your nephew is lucky to have such loving and supportive relatives.

kally
4-25-11, 5:05pm
good move on your part.

Merski
4-25-11, 5:15pm
I guess I just didn't know if this would be a controversial subject. I'm pretty open minded myself.

ejchase
4-25-11, 6:24pm
Know some people with a child (around 12, I think) who is a boy who insists on living as a girl - it's been hard for them, so I'm glad you were able to support your sister. I saw a fantastic documentary about this issue years ago called "You Don't Know Dick" - if you can find it, buy it or rent it. It's WONDERFUL.

Maxamillion
4-25-11, 6:32pm
That's great that you're supportive.

ETA: A book that's usually highly recommended is True Selves, if you're wanting to learn more about what it means to be transgender.

puglogic
4-25-11, 7:50pm
We have a fantastic friend who is transgender, and who suffered for many years before making the decision. His parents and siblings no longer speak to him, even though he is a very sweet person through and through. I suppose they're embarrassed or something. I cannot begin to know what it feels like to have these feelings -- can't even fathom what it would feel like -- but that doesn't keep us from supporting him. Blessings to you.

mattj
4-25-11, 8:30pm
You have done your sister and her family a great service. I applaud you!

baybay
4-25-11, 11:50pm
I love that you are loving and supporting him/her! I don't have any wisdom but just wanted to let you know that reading your post makes me more optimistic about humankind. Thank you :)

loosechickens
4-26-11, 1:38am
No family members, but friends. Science is just now beginning to understand how fluid gender really is, and how it sometimes just does not go along with the supplied "equipment". I hope you can give your nephew the same kind of support you would give were he to have any other kind of medical issue, because that is really what it is, a medical and psychological issue (it is quite traumatic to be mismatched psychologically with the genital equipment supplied by nature). Nature does, indeed, make errors, quite often, as we are coming to realize, and the less this is made into some big deal and the more it is simply accepted as righting the situation so that the perceived sex of the person in society is a better match with the perceived sex of the person as experienced inside, the better.

If his mom is having difficulty with the concept, you might want to refer her to PFLAG, which works with families of the transgendered as well as with families of gays and lesbians, to educate, support and help with understanding of their family members and friends.

I'm happy for your nephew that he is able to start on the path that will lead to becoming the sex that he already knows he is inside, a she. The best of luck to him/her. We know several male to female transgendered people, and it is actually an easier transition in that direction than from female to male, both societally and physically. Good luck to your nephew, soon to become your niece.

margene
4-26-11, 9:46am
Well i don't know but my son dresses in womens clothes in private. He acts like a male though. He says sometimes he wants to be a girl. So I'm confused.

Glo
4-26-11, 10:29am
Cudos for your support!

Greg44
4-26-11, 11:23am
My cousin, as an adult decided she was a "man trapped in a women's body" and has been a "man" now for 30+ years. Early on had mastectomy and hysterectomy - don't know about the "other" plumbing. Has been married and has an adult son. His name and gender was legally changed on his birth certificate.

We live several states apart and I have seen him only several times over the years. He is accepted in our family and is a great person. He is active in our church - but with some restrictions - which he accepts and is faithful.

While now it is more accepted, it has not been an easy road for any of his immediate family. There was a lot or tension when his parents kept - soley by habit - calling him by his "former female" name. Lots of counselling for his son when he became a teenager. I "assume" because of talk by his friends and school mates.

CathyA
4-26-11, 12:01pm
I wonder if hormone therapy would work for anyone feeling like they're living in the wrong body. Is it maybe a hormone imbalance? Just wondering. I'm absolutely not making any judgements. It must be horrible to feel like you're the other gender. Just wondering if any any research has been done on it. Seems like it might be easier to adjust hormones than to have all that surgery........plus, I think if you become a woman, you have to stay on the hormones anyhow.
(Just to clarify....was wondering if males who want to be females need more testosterone and women who want to be men need more estrogen).

Merski
4-26-11, 12:27pm
He knew when he was 5! He has known and lived with this for almost 40 years before he's decided to do hormone therapy for transitioning so I trust that he knows what he's doing and I'm glad that he's going to a therapist about it.

CathyA
4-26-11, 12:40pm
What a long and tormented 40 years it must have been for him. It must feel really freeing for him to go forward with something he's wanted for so long.

Float On
4-26-11, 12:52pm
What a long and tormented 40 years it must have been for him. It must feel really freeing for him to go forward with something he's wanted for so long.

I agree.
I've known two male to female and watched a documentary on a female to male journey just the other night.

Maxamillion
4-26-11, 4:53pm
Here's one of the latest scientific studies done.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan.html

I'm trans (female-to-male), and being female-bodied is very disturbing for me. There's still a lot of stigma about being transgender, which makes things worse. The suicide rate for trans people is extremely high, something like 50% have attempted it, if I remember correctly. Some aren't able to transition due to lack of money and resources (voice of experience here). Transition is expensive and most insurance plans don't cover it. It can be difficult finding a doctor who will prescribe hormones and many require a letter from a therapist, which can also be difficult to find (one that understands, anyway).

FWIW, I have taken female hormones before but they just made the problem worse, not better. The less female hormones in my body, the better I feel. I've heard from several online trans friends of mine that when they started hormone treatment to transition (female-to-male taking testosterone, for example) that mentally they felt so much better. I've heard it being compared to an engine (the brain) finally running on the right fuel (hormones).

Except for one of my sisters, my family was rather upset and disturbed when I told them. Some of them are ashamed of me and some have been rather cold towards me since they found out. I have a friend who has family who haven't spoken to him since he transitioned years ago. So it's good to see that there are people out there who are supportive of their family members who are trans.

Greg44
4-26-11, 5:18pm
Maxamillion how long have you been transgender? Some people think that it is odd that our LDS (Mormon) family is so accepting of our LDS cousin. I think it is hard to judge others for their feelings and what they feel is right for them.

I hope your family comes around - I don't think people should be obligated to accept other's decisions, but that shouldn't stop them from loving and caring about them.

Maxamillion
4-26-11, 6:14pm
Maxamillion how long have you been transgender?

My whole life. I was around four when I realized there was a difference between boys and girls. And I felt very cheated that I wasn't a boy. Puberty was horrifying. I tried to ignore it all for a long time after and tried my best to fit in with the girls. But when I went away to college, it all came back, worse than ever. I did some research online and found out something could be done about it (I had heard of people transitioning to female but didn't know it was possible to transition to male until then). It's only been in the last year that I've told my family, so I'm hoping they will come around. Some of them do come from a religious background and I know it's a struggle for them. So I'm trying to be patient.

Greg44
4-26-11, 6:41pm
So I'm trying to be patient. And that is probably the key. You have been dealing with this your whole life and your family has had less than a year. It will be hard for some, love them as you want them to love you. ;)

mattj
4-26-11, 6:47pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poppy_Z_Brite#Retirement - He has finally started crossing over. I've been a huge fan of his for years.

Wildflower
4-27-11, 5:45am
I have a transgender friend that I have been very supportive of over the years. It has been very hard for his family to accept the change, but with time and love they have come around. I am very proud of his family at this point....

So great to hear that you are so supportive of your nephew!

redfox
4-27-11, 1:23pm
When I came out as Lesbian in 1977, I did not tell my family. Eventually, I told my Mom, who knew anyway. When I was in therapy after a very bad divorce with the woman who is the legal mom of our daughter, I decided to tell my Father, a conservative attorney. It was a huge breakthrough for me in wanting an honest relationship with him. To his full credit, he accepted me wholeheartedly.

My wise & wonderful therapist coached me through this, including offering the wisdom that family members have their own coming-out period of time in which they need to settle into this new information about their loved one, and to give him some time. This was a very significant piece of advice for me, as it allowed me to continue to have a close relationship with my Father even if he wasn't comfortable discussing my news. In fact, I told him it took me ten years to disclose to him, so if we hadn't talked about it after ten years, I'd bring it up again. I believe this gave him some breathing room, allowing him to accept me in his own way and time. In was highly beneficial all around.

Especially 21 years later, when I fell in love with a man! Both my parents were shocked - and it makes me chuckle now to recall that they seemed more shocked by this than by my original disclosure. I am quite apparently bisexual, leaning towards the homosexual end of the continuum, but am also happy in a monogamous marriage with my husband... who knew me first as the girlfriend of his female minister.

I offer this story as a way of saying that people will need time, and I hope your young relative can be supported while some family take the time they need to adjust - good for you for being in the supportive arena. It won't happen quickly for some, and will for others. Never say never. And suspend judgements, for who knows what's best for anyone?

nocar
6-27-12, 10:34am
Glad to hear this, OP. I knew at age 4 (I was born female) that I was supposed to have been born male. 42 now and post transition. I lost my entire family over it--I'm always so pleased to hear of supportive families :)

larknm
6-27-12, 1:25pm
My first ambition was to be an old man. I was confused and depressed by puberty. I've never transitioned, but usually identify as male, and am with a man who generally identifies as female. This is the best relationship I've had (25 years, 20 years married); other longterm one was with a very masculine woman. I am terrified of surgery etc because I had major surgery (on face--due to encephelocele due to being born with spina bifida occulta) at age 2, preceded by 2 years of weekly (unecessary) cauterization without anesthesia. Without that history, I might have transitioned.

kitten
6-27-12, 3:10pm
omg, without anesthesia? That is horrific :/


My first ambition was to be an old man. I was confused and depressed by puberty. I've never transitioned, but usually identify as male, and am with a man who generally identifies as female. This is the best relationship I've had (25 years, 20 years married); other longterm one was with a very masculine woman. I am terrified of surgery etc because I had major surgery (on face--due to encephelocele due to being born with spina bifida occulta) at age 2, preceded by 2 years of weekly (unecessary) cauterization without anesthesia. Without that history, I might have transitioned.

AnneM
6-29-12, 12:34am
I have a 9 year old who is transgendered, male to female. She has identified strongly as female since she was a toddler. In addition to being transgendered, she is developmentally delayed (autism spectrum disorder), so wasn't able to speak until the age of 5 1/2. But in the first sentence she spoke to me, she said that she wanted to cut off a certain body part.

The difficulty of having a transgendered child on the autism spectrum is that she does not have the filter that would allow her to know what is socially acceptable behavior. So she tells everyone she sees that she is a girl. We do allow her to wear pink clothing (she loves pink!) at home, including dresses and skirts. She loves her dolls, and her Disney princess bedrom set! But at school, she knows that she is still known as Brian (we call it her school nickname, which she seems to be okay with for now), and that she must wear gender neutral clothing there. She refuses to use the boys bathroom at school, but fortunately, one of the special ed teachers has a unisex bathroom in her classroom, which she allows Caitlyn (Brian) to use.

She has been diagnosed at Childrens Hospital in Seattle with gender dysphoria, and we are on track to start her on puberty blockers once she reaches Tanner stage 2 of puberty. Then when she is an adult, she will be able to make the decision as to whether she wants to undergo reassignment surgery. The only problem is that, with a communication disorder, we won't know how much she really understands of what that will mean. Hopefully when she comes of age, she will have enough of an understanding to know what the consequences of reassignment surgery will be. We still have a long way to go yet, and thank god that we got a diagnosis early enough so that she will be on track to start receiving the puberty blockers at onset, as I know she would be devastated to see herself developing as a male.

Merski
6-29-12, 8:27am
Thank you all for your support and honesty about being trans and supporting trans. I was thinking that this was a very rare thing and now know it may not be. Sexuality, gender etc. from what one poster said is fluid, and I agree. We all must have gone through own own gender birth of what kind of male or female we wanted to be and then adjusted to our partner's concepts of themselves. I love that concept. I didn't put it well but no matter.

iris lily
6-29-12, 9:03am
I watched a few documentaries last winter about transitioning. One (poorly done) documentary covered a MtF subject who later, in her 40's, went back to Male. I say it was poorly dope because any indepth analysis or insight into her motivation was lacking in the film, it was kind of a mish mash of trans personalities.

The best film I saw was the one about Cher's son, Charity.

JaneV2.0
6-29-12, 11:39am
i saw a horrifying documentary some years ago about intersex individuals born with ambiguous genitalia and/or endocrine disorders.The horrifying part was that doctors were making decisions arbitrarily and performing sex-assignment surgeries with no regard to how their patients actually identified--or would identify as adults. Then the parents were told to start referring to their child with a new pronoun, dress them accordingly, etc. The people featured were absolutely devastated by the whole ordeal. I'd like to think we're more enlightened now, but I suspect we have a long way to go.

redfox
6-29-12, 12:35pm
By the way, those of us who identify & present as the gender we were born with are called Cis gendered by many in the trans world.

Here is Wikipedia's entry about this term & its variations, orginis, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender

I particularly appreciate the linguistic origin:

"Cisgender has its origin in the Latin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin)-derived prefix cis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cis), meaning "to/this the near side," which is antonymous with the Latin-derived prefix "trans." This usage can be seen in the cis-trans distinction in chemistry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cis-trans_isomerism), or in the ancient Roman term "Cisalpine Gaul (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisalpine_Gaul)", i.e., "Gaul (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaul) on this side of the Alps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alps)". In the case of gender, however, "cis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cis)" refers to the alignment of gender identity with assigned gender."


I consider myself a Cis ally.

Spartana
7-5-12, 6:21pm
Thank you all for your support and honesty about being trans and supporting trans. I was thinking that this was a very rare thing and now know it may not be. Sexuality, gender etc. from what one poster said is fluid, and I agree. We all must have gone through own own gender birth of what kind of male or female we wanted to be and then adjusted to our partner's concepts of themselves. I love that concept. I didn't put it well but no matter.

Congrats on your support for your nephew (niece ;-)!). It's a very loving testament to you as a person to support and understand their transistion.

I also agree that gender in terms of interests in things is fluid, and feel strongly that things, roles, jobs, activities, interests, etc... shouldn't be defined by traditional gender roles. The idea that ALL girls should have an interest in traditionally female things, and ALL boys an interest in male things has always been a very screwy idea to me. We are all human beings and individuals who have varied interests in all the different things in the human spectrum. I see most things as non-gendered and that they could be of interest to ALL kids and adults. As a girl (and woman) I never had an interest in traditionally female things but gravatated towards things that were labeled "male". Yet I am a very feminine woman, like to wear lacy bras and panties under my grease stained coveralls while working on my motorcycles or big ship's engines, never felt like a man, have no interest in being one, and consider myself 100% female - even feminine for all my grease monkey ways :-)! As a boy-crazy teenage girl I would rather ride my motorcycle and work on cars (and what better place for as boy-crazed teenage girl :-)!) then shop for clothes and make-up. So to me, I assume that it's the same with everyone - some boys may want to do things that are traditionally labelled "female" and some girls may want to do things traditionally labelled "male". And they should be able to without society defining how they should act. I wonder if more people (especially men who are more restricted then women by gender roles - i.e. I can wear pants and be a mechanic and join the military and shoot guns and ride a motorcycle without anyone batting an eye, but give a man a dress and heels, a sappy romance movie and a pink cocktail with a little umbrella and people are ostrasizing them ) had the freedom to take part uninhibited in all aspects of human experiences without being shunned or ridiculed, if many more would feel the need to radical gender realignment surgury? Of course, physically feeling like you aren't suppose to have the "parts" you have (or don't have) is probably more the determining factor for transgendered people then the social stuff.

Spartana
7-5-12, 6:31pm
By the way, those of us who identify & present as the gender we were born with are called Cis gendered by many in the trans world.

Here is Wikipedia's entry about this term & its variations, orginis, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender

I particularly appreciate the linguistic origin:

"Cisgender has its origin in the Latin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin)-derived prefix cis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cis), meaning "to/this the near side," which is antonymous with the Latin-derived prefix "trans." This usage can be seen in the cis-trans distinction in chemistry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cis-trans_isomerism), or in the ancient Roman term "Cisalpine Gaul (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisalpine_Gaul)", i.e., "Gaul (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaul) on this side of the Alps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alps)". In the case of gender, however, "cis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cis)" refers to the alignment of gender identity with assigned gender."


I consider myself a Cis ally.

I just read that and am not sure I agree with it. Again, it "defines" behavior as one way or another based on nothing more than biological sexual characteristics and doesn't taske a person individualism into consideration. Masny people have character traits, behaviors and interests which cover a much wider spectrum then the defined gender roles.

"In gender studies, cisgender ( /ˈsɪsdʒɛndər/) and cissexual are a closely related class of gender identities where an individual's gender identity matches the behavior or role considered appropriate for one's sex" (emphasis mine)

So what is "appropriate? If I like work as a mechanic on a ship or do rescue work or law enforcement or firefighter (all things I've done) yet also enjoy pink silk dress, make-up and jewelry as well as the attentions of men - am I appropriate? To me defining gender roles is the same as saying blacks should behave like this, and whites should behave like that. Limiting the human potential in all of us. Gender roles should all die off IMHO and let us each be the people we want to be with nothing being inappropriate for anyone - irregardless of gender, age, or ability. Die gender roles, die ;-)!

bae
7-5-12, 6:59pm
. Gender roles should all die off IMHO and let us each be the people we want to be with nothing being inappropriate for anyone - irregardless of gender, age, or ability. Die gender roles, die ;-)!

I agree with you, except that "ability" is important. If I want to be the next Rembrandt, nothing's going to help me :-)

Spartana
7-5-12, 9:07pm
I agree with you, except that "ability" is important. If I want to be the next Rembrandt, nothing's going to help me :-)

yeah, that gosh dern need for "ability" always getting in the way and mucking up our attempts to be the next Rembrandt (or Rembrandtette!!). Although I can do a mean Pollack with an full oil can and some automatic transmission fluid :-)! Of course, the question is - will society let me try? Back in Rembrandt's day there wern't too many women allowed to become artists even if they did have the ability. It wasn't deemed an appropriate position for a woman to be in - or maybe not a role that a woman could handle. We have come a long way but those gender-based stereotypes of being one way or another depending on if you are male or female, still have a huge sway over most people.

JaneV2.0
7-5-12, 9:21pm
I have to say that not all people with "gender appropriate" jobs are as able as they should be. Mediocrity knows no gender.

Spartana
7-5-12, 9:45pm
I have to say that not all people with "gender appropriate" jobs are as able as they should be. Mediocrity knows no gender.

If you ever watched me try to type or cook or do anything with kids you'd know the true definition of mediocracy! Now give me a broken down gigantic steam turbine engine and my artisty would make you weep :-)! OK - I'm mediococer at that too but still - at least i somewhat know what I'm doing.

bae
7-5-12, 10:31pm
If you ever watched me try to type or cook or do anything with kids you'd know the true definition of mediocracy! Now give me a broken down gigantic steam turbine engine and my artisty would make you weep :-)! OK - I'm mediococer at that too but still - at least i somewhat know what I'm doing.

In our future Ideal Society, I will happily cook for the village if you will keep the steam engine working for us.

(I, um, took Home Ec instead of shop class in junior high. I was the only guy in the class. Clever me :-) )

Spartana
7-6-12, 4:31pm
In our future Ideal Society, I will happily cook for the village if you will keep the steam engine working for us.

(I, um, took Home Ec instead of shop class in junior high. I was the only guy in the class. Clever me :-) )

Ha Ha! You ARE clever! Free food, lots of female attention, and no competetion - what more could a teenage boy want in life!! OK, don't answer that ;-)!

Spartana
7-7-12, 5:14pm
Well i don't know but my son dresses in womens clothes in private. He acts like a male though. He says sometimes he wants to be a girl. So I'm confused.

I'm not sure what "acts like a male" means (does he wear pants and like to play basketball? So do many, many, many women.

I don't know your sons age but with most children they may just be curious or playful and not really have any gender identity issues at all. To them GI Joes and Barbies are the same - just dolls to play with - and clothes are just clothes. If the girls get to wear pants AND dresses, then it probably seems logical to kids that the boys should get to wear pants AND dresses too. But I think that for boys and men it is much harder to cross "preceived" gender lines then it is for girls/women (I say preceived because I personally don't believe in gender lines or differences - they are just something society made-up to define what our "appropriate" behaviors should be based on what our genetic sex - male or female - is). So while women can wear pants and do many things that are considered "guy things" and be totally accepted by most of society, it is more difficult for boys or men to do the same. I think, that as we progress as a society, that will change for men the same way as it has changed for women in most countries. I feel gender-lines shou;d not exist, but they do, and would love to see a man feel as free and confident to wear a dress as we women feel to wear pants.

As for gender identity, and the term transgender, I must admit those terms really confuses me. I had always assumed that it meant the person physically feels they are in the wrong body - that the bits and pieces are wrong and that the physical traits and characteristics they were born with was just wrong. Therefore I totally understand the desire to take hormones and have surgury to change that. However, I never thought the word "transgender" or "gender identity" meant that your social or behavioral desires - things you want to do, are interested in, want to be part of, etc.. - had anything to do with that. To me, if you liked to fish or sew clothes or work on an oil rig or whatever, it didn't mean you identified with the opposite gender - it just meant that you liked to do those things even if those things were maybe dominanted by one gender more than another. Very confusing concecpt for me probably because I truelly see most things as gender-less activities that anyone can do and should not be labelled guy things or girl things.

nocar
7-7-12, 6:02pm
I'm pleasantly surprised to see all the support here for trans folk!!!! :-)

AnneM
7-8-12, 8:26pm
Spartana, your understanding is correct. The person strongly feels that they are in the wrong sex of body. My nine year old is completely flummoxed as to why she has boy parts as she so obviously is a girl, in her mind.

JaneV2.0
7-8-12, 11:12pm
Tonight's Dateline NBC featured a compelling report of a family dealing with transgender issues.
http://insidedateline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/08/12625007-transgender-children-in-america-encounter-new-crossroads-with-medicine?lite

ApatheticNoMore
7-8-12, 11:32pm
I always grew up having to remind myself I was a girl. It wasn't about the body parts as it was almost entirely mental, I felt mentally male, it was that all the history I read was mostly HIS-story, that everything IMPORTANT and worth doing seemed to be done by men, etc.. I don't identify as transgendered. I'd call it growing up female in a world that I experienced and frankly experience to some degree as male centered, plus my personality may tend toward certain more male perspectives maybe (I don't think entirely because um face it, I'm not male :~) and am not running on male hormones etc.).

herbgeek
7-9-12, 7:23am
I grew up not having to remind myself I was a girl, because my mother was always reinforcing it for me. Had to wear dresses, which couldn't get dirty. No climbing trees or poles. No mud pies. Always got baby dolls for presents, even though I loudly expressed my distaste for them. I was allowed to bake and clean. ;) Is it any wonder I wound up in a male dominated profession (engineering), many of my friends are men, and I have androgynous habits and attitudes? I see gender (and sexuality) as a continuum, not as a binary either/or thing.

nocar
7-9-12, 2:09pm
I knew before I had seen anyone else's body parts (age 4) that I was supposed to have been born a boy. It was just something I knew. For me it wasn't "oh why don't I have a penis??" it was simply, "I am supposed to be a boy".

JaneV2.0
7-9-12, 2:40pm
I grew up not having to remind myself I was a girl, because my mother was always reinforcing it for me. Had to wear dresses, which couldn't get dirty. No climbing trees or poles. No mud pies. Always got baby dolls for presents, even though I loudly expressed my distaste for them. I was allowed to bake and clean. ;) Is it any wonder I wound up in a male dominated profession (engineering), many of my friends are men, and I have androgynous habits and attitudes? I see gender (and sexuality) as a continuum, not as a binary either/or thing.

I might have been a "tomboy," given half a chance. Though I was allowed to play in the dirt, I wasn't allowed the chemistry and erector sets I asked for. Too bad, I could have used some early reinforcement in spatial relations. I adored my dolls--dressing them, anyway (it's always been about the fashion for me), but I've always had a wide range of interests across the prescribed gender-assigned spectrum. It wasn't surprising that I ended up in a nearly all-male workforce, but primarily because I went where the living wage was. I admit I was a lousy fit in all-female offices anyway. I've been enthusiastically heterosexual since I was old enough for romantic fantasies. The idea that one consciously chooses one's sexual orientation (bi-, straight, gay, whatever) strikes me as ridiculous.

ApatheticNoMore
7-9-12, 2:49pm
It wasn't surprising that I ended up in a nearly all-male workforce, but primarily because I went where the living wage was.

+1 It is STILL where the living wage is, in an age when JOBS period are getting harder and harder to find!


I've been enthusiastically heterosexual since I was old enough for romantic fantasies. The idea that one consciously chooses one's sexual orientation (bi-, straight, gay, whatever) strikes me as ridiculous.

It's always been a lot more ambigious to me. Mind you I have only ever actually been involved with men, but there's a lot of social pressure to that anyway even if you could in theory see yourself going either way (a lot of people have believed that many (most?) humans are really bi and that's always seemed to make sense to me). I've also read that female sexuality is generally more fluid than male sexuality.

margene
7-9-12, 3:30pm
Spartana, He's not a child he's 21. And I'm not talking about things he likes to do I'm talking about a manner of acting that appears more masculine then feminine. He wears clothing that as a male person he would have no use for such as bras. I'm not making as issue out of this but I am aware there could be more to this then just wanting to wear different kind of clothing. Not sure why the confrontational tone.

Spartana
7-9-12, 7:04pm
Spartana, He's not a child he's 21. And I'm not talking about things he likes to do I'm talking about a manner of acting that appears more masculine then feminine. He wears clothing that as a male person he would have no use for such as bras. I'm not making as issue out of this but I am aware there could be more to this then just wanting to wear different kind of clothing. Not sure why the confrontational tone.

I'm sorry - I wasn't trying to be confrontational at all - just trying to show concern and offer an couple of thoughts for your situation. I had no idea if he was 5 or 50 and I think that makes a difference. Sometimes my posts appear more abrupt then I mean them to be. he may be a cross-dresser (a straight masculine male who occasionally enjoys wearing womens clothes) and have no gender identity issues at all.

From wikipedia:
Cross-dressing is the act of wearing clothing and other accoutrement commonly associated with the opposite sex within a particular society.[1] Cross-dressing has been used for disguise, performance art and as a literary trope in modern times and throughout history.

Nearly every human society throughout history has made distinctions between male and female gender by the style, color, or type of clothing they are expected to wear, and likewise most societies have had a set of norms, views, guidelines, or even laws defining what type of clothing is appropriate for each gender. It does not, however, necessarily indicate transgender identity; a person who cross-dresses does not always identify as being of a gender other than their assigned gender.

Mrs-M
7-9-12, 10:01pm
Originally posted by Bae.
I, um, took Home Ec instead of shop class in junior high. I was the only guy in the class. Clever meOne boy enrolled in my class, but dropped out days after. Guess us girls scared him off! LOL!

redfox
7-9-12, 10:38pm
I knew before I had seen anyone else's body parts (age 4) that I was supposed to have been born a boy. It was just something I knew. For me it wasn't "oh why don't I have a penis??" it was simply, "I am supposed to be a boy".

How did you parents receive you? And, love your online name!

margene
7-10-12, 10:40pm
Spartana, I guess I took your meaning the wrong way. It's easy to misread someone meaning on a forum like this. Thank you for the input.

nocar
7-13-12, 4:29pm
"How did you parents receive you? And, love your online name!"

Thank you! I love being car-free ;)

Well, for the better part of my life it was fine--even encouraged--for me to be as tomboyish as I wanted. My younger brothers came along when I was 7 and 9 years old. I like to think I taught them everything they know ;)

It was very confusing for years; keep in mind I'm 42 so I realised in 1974 that things were not right....long before the internet, etc. I grew up mainly in very rural areas (read: in the sticks!) so there was really nowhere for me to turn. I stuffed away my feelings for decades...

Came out at age 27 as "Queer / Bisexual" which didn't surprise my parents at all. My coming out later as Trans, however, was not received well & I've lost my entire family over it.

treehugger
7-13-12, 5:07pm
Came out at age 27 as "Queer / Bisexual" which didn't surprise my parents at all. My coming out later as Trans, however, was not received well & I've lost my entire family over it.

nocar, this makes me very sad. I hope you have been able to build a new, supportive, loving family in your life.

Sincerely,

Kara

nocar
7-13-12, 5:52pm
Ah thank you, Kara. It's been better without them actually. My youngest brother died years ago but I know he would have loved me regardless....
I certainly have made myself a new, fantastic family :)

treehugger
7-13-12, 5:59pm
I certainly have made myself a new, fantastic family :)

That is great to hear. This is the best part of being an adult, I think: getting to choose one's family (since the family members we are "gifted" with at birth are not always the ones that are best for us).

Best wishes,

Kara

nocar
7-14-12, 11:18am
This is the best part of being an adult, I think: getting to choose one's family (since the family members we are "gifted" with at birth are not always the ones that are best for us).



I Agree!! :)

Merski
7-14-12, 12:23pm
I have sisters that I know would give me a kidney if I needed it but don't give me the time of day.. I too have created a new family for myself of caring "brothers and sisters aunts, uncles, cousins". Like I've said before I could only applaud my nephew for letting us know what his true self is. He's a loving sweet person and is much happier as a woman....still working on the gender pronouns but I know because I support him/her that they understand that the transition is sort of confusing for everyone.

AnneM
7-14-12, 4:19pm
As a parent of a transgender child, I do not understand how other parents don't accept it. It's not like it's a choice for the transgendered individual. Why some people believe it is a choice, I cannot fathom.

chanterelle
7-14-12, 6:23pm
In the 70's one of my college friends lost her entire family when she made the trans announcement. She went on to live a good life.
30 years later, she and her long time partner were the only family members to welcome her aged and sickly parents into their home and they lovingly cared for them until they died.
Life plays out in many interesting ways.

nocar
7-16-12, 9:36am
As a parent of a transgender child, I do not understand how other parents don't accept it. It's not like it's a choice for the transgendered individual. Why some people believe it is a choice, I cannot fathom.

You rock! :)

iris lily
7-16-12, 10:16am
I can see how parents and others see transgender identity is a "choice." When an adult lives for 50 years as one gender, and then swaps gender, it looks to the outside world as --"poof! I'm now a woman because I decided to be one!" When really we on the outside have no knowledge of that person's internal struggles in identity for 5 decades. We can't know the trans person's thoughts and feelings and likely pain in living because in his internal psyche, he is a she. Because we don't know any of the internal, it doesn't exist for us.

Another complicating factor is that gender in society is perceived as being binary: you are either female or you are male, no in-between, no shades of grey. But in real life there ARE shades of grey and those shades are harder to characterize. So someone in the grey area may go back and forth between the genders and to outsiders it looks like a "choice." The "choice" is how gender identity is expressed on a daily basis, the trans person doesn't have a choice about which gender he identifies with.

I can also see a little bit of motherly protectiveness going on when a trans person makes a physical change. Those are some pretty radical assaults on the body with hormones and surgeries. I know that I would wince at the thought of my child's perfect body undergoing those changes and I might plead with my kid to carefully consider the choice to change.

treehugger
7-16-12, 12:36pm
I can also see a little bit of motherly protectiveness going on when a trans person makes a physical change. Those are some pretty radical assaults on the body with hormones and surgeries. I know that I would wince at the thought of my child's perfect body undergoing those changes and I might plead with my kid to carefully consider the choice to change.

Those are very reasonable worries, and that would be on my mind, too, if a loved one was going through this. I have known people who have (but no one really close to me), and I've seen, from a distance, how physically detrimental those treatments can be. I actually recently got to reconnect with someone from high school (at our 20th reunion) who transitioned female to male right after graduating. The past 20 years have been very rough on him, physically and emotionally. Not an easy road, by any means.

Kara

Merski
10-5-12, 12:40pm
An update on our niece. She's "out at work" has changed as many documents as she could without having the gender reassignment surgery. Here's the kicker....her dad died less than half a year ago from cancer and now she's been recently diagnosed with colon AND liver cancer. We're all going to help her with her fight. She's so entirely happy with her identity now that that will be an added bonus to her outlook at her cancer. Please pray, chant, think of her if you are willing. I want her to enjoy many, many years of being a the happy, healthy woman she always wanted to be. Thank you all in advance.

Juicifer
11-4-12, 12:25pm
Transition is hard. There are so many people that simply don't want to understand and finding out one day that you are finally the person you always wanted to be is an incredible experience. I'll pray for her for sure, I like how you say " I want her to enjoy many, many years of being a the happy, healthy woman she always wanted to be" that is what I would wish for her as well.

I started a small Wordrpress blog a year or so back, it's for transgendered people and she might enjoy it: http://transgenderstories.wordpress.com/
Wish her well! :)

Float On
11-4-12, 2:36pm
Beautiful blog Juicifer, what a nice place for people to write their stories.

Merski
11-4-12, 7:18pm
Thank you for your link Juicifer. I sent it to her. And your kindest of words also....

puglogic
11-5-12, 12:45pm
Merski, sending my best healing thoughts to your niece. Hoping she pulls through with flying colors.

Merski
7-3-13, 7:32am
Update on my niece. In the next few days she is expected to die from the cancer that couldn't be beaten down. I saw her yesterday and she is nothing but grace and dignity in these final days. Her Dad went out angry and miserable lashing out at everyone he loved. I want to die like she is doing. Her wake will be her "funeral" She will be laid out with makeup and a dress (which i knew would happen since she's female in our eyes) All of her trans friends will be invited (some are not "out" in general society yet) to come dressed as their authentic selves and will be embraced as her "family of choice". An interesting aside. A dear friend's son just had a baby with his wife and named her the name of my niece and have asked that shower items were gender neutral to encourage their daughter to be who she is rather than some stereotypical role. These young folks have never met Caroline but I feel some kind of cosmic force at hand....

peggy
7-3-13, 9:35am
Oh Merski, I am so sorry for your loss. My condolences to you and your family.

puglogic
7-3-13, 11:02am
Merski, tears in my eyes. Such sad news, but such a beautiful example of "going out with grace and dignity." If we must leave this world, I'd like to do it like your niece.

SteveinMN
7-3-13, 11:33am
I agree. Your niece is a class act. Prayers for all of you....

BarbieGirl
7-4-13, 12:27am
Merski,

My condolences to you on the loss of your dear niece. Cancer is horrible! She sounds like a wonderful person.

Barb

Merski
7-4-13, 6:49am
She died last night. Their town was having fireworks. It was beautiful my sister said.

herbgeek
7-4-13, 8:23am
So sorry for your loss.

fidgiegirl
7-4-13, 10:57am
Ah, Merski, so sorry. Big hugs for you and for your sister.

rosarugosa
7-4-13, 12:32pm
So sorry Merski. It sounds like she was quite an inspiration to those around her.

Merski
7-4-13, 1:52pm
Thanks everybody. She was a quiet sad introvert but when she finally came out and followed her heart, my,my but she lit up the night sky!

redfox
7-4-13, 2:22pm
Oh, my dear, I am so sorry for your families loss. What a story. I do hope it's written up. Big hugs.

AnneM
7-4-13, 3:08pm
Merski,

I am sorry for your family's loss. Your niece was a courageous woman.

Jilly
7-4-13, 5:12pm
I am sorry to hear this.

JaneV2.0
7-4-13, 6:33pm
I'm so glad she was able to die as herself!

Butch Rydham
8-12-13, 12:23pm
I am the transgender member in my family !pow!.
I was born female, but I never really felt feminine.
I'm 38, and for the past eight years I have been living and dressing like a man :+1:, I have even given myself a masculine name (Robert). Both my parents have passed away, but I have a younger brother, who seems to be cool with the choices I have made in my life.
I think you will love your nephew just the same as always, judging from my own experience, the people who really care for you will be supportive whatever decisions we make in life.
:idea:

Glo
8-12-13, 12:58pm
Good for you! If it were someone in my family, I'd also still love them unconditionally.

Merski
8-13-13, 7:42pm
Glo and Butch, she was truly happy for at least a year being a woman but the cancer claimed her life all too soon. That's why we should all be true to ourselves and within reason do and be what makes us happy.
She did not want a funeral but had calling hours at the funeral parlor, all dressed up with makeup and her hair done, going out the way she wanted to. Her trans friends were invited to come dressed in any way they'd like as the family was cool with it and we met many lovely women and men, "brothers and sisters" who told us how sunny she was. She had come out at work and was accepted as female (discrimination laws as well as fondness for her) and not more than 3 months later had to leave because she was too ill to work. Several of her co-workers also drove about 1 1/2 hrs to the funeral home.

bae
9-7-16, 4:03pm
Coming through my mailbox this morning from the ACLU:

https://action.aclu.org/secure/stop-bullying-trans-youth

Apparently Alabama, Georgia, Kentucky, Maine, Mississippi, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Wisconsin, Arizona, Louisiana, and West Virginia have decided just as school starts this year to engage in a little virtue signaling.

JaneV2.0
9-7-16, 4:40pm
The ACLU does fine work; I've been a supporter for years.

Teacher Terry
9-7-16, 4:47pm
Jane, you are so right!

Zoe Girl
9-8-16, 12:38am
Yes thank you to the ACLU, I realized I never posted on this thread. My summer staff last year included a trans-man and also a Roman Catholic priest in training. A mixture for sure and we had a great team. I follow the young trans-man on FB and am more aware of the issues however I have had some trans people in my life since I was a teenager.

The backlash is horrifying to me, we have lost so many young people to suicide. I know that the young man I know is studying to be a counselor, does lots of outreach, and has a wonderfully supportive family. I think by knowing him I see how comfortable he is in his own skin now and can't imagine him any other way. That is a huge validation of what a supported transition can do.

bae
2-25-17, 5:09am
I am disheartened at the Trump Regime's instructions to withdraw Title IX protections for LQBTQ+ folks.

Luckily I live in the state of Washington, which recognizes my rights to use whatever bathroom seems appropriate to me.

As an XYY/mosaic human, in some states I am apparently not allowed to use public restrooms.

So yay.

Zoe Girl
2-25-17, 10:21am
It is a big concern for me,We have a 6 year old student who is questioning herself and in our school it is no big deal at all. She still goes by she and uses the girls bathroom, kids ask questions especially when we have other schools come over for shared camp days, and it is really is the best situation for her overall. But she tells her mom every week she is a boy and dresses in a way people assume she is a boy. In our community I am so grateful it is not a big deal, she is just a little person.

So all this stuff about letting people live free and gov't non-interference means what? I will now be supported to carry guns but someone can look in my pants.

iris lilies
2-25-17, 10:58am
Are we talking here about the ridiculous bathroom issue?

Isnt this latest White House decision just handing this non-issue back to the states where it belongs?

Tybee
2-25-17, 11:00am
Are we talking here about the ridiculous bathroom issue?

Isnt this latest White House decisin just handing this non-issue back to the states where it belongs?

Why would that be a state issue? Wouldn't it be an issue of rights under the constitution, i.e. federal?

iris lilies
2-25-17, 11:32am
Why would that be a state issue? Wouldn't it be an issue of rights under the constitution, i.e. federal?

This bathroom issue heated up for the sake of the children in schools. (Where is that eyeroll emojii! ) It is taking place in the context of schools, and schools are a local issue. Let them, the locals, take care of it.

Tybee
2-25-17, 12:18pm
This bathroom issue heated up for the sake of the children in schools. (Where is that eyeroll emojii! ) It is taking place in the context of schools, and schools are a local issue. Let them, the locals, take care of it.
Okay, I see, if it's a school issue then that makes sense. In the schools only, but then if it's a larger issue, then the schools have to comply with what the feds say, as per integration, right?

iris lilies
2-25-17, 1:07pm
Okay, I see, if it's a school issue then that makes sense. In the schools only, but then if it's a larger issue, then the schools have to comply with what the feds say, as per integration, right?
If someone sues to use a specific gendered bathroom and the U.S. supreme Court backs them them up citing a specific constitutional right, sure. Thats how it's done.

Tybee
2-25-17, 1:42pm
If someone sues to use a specific gendered bathroom and the U.S. supreme Court backs them them up citing a specific constitutional right, sure. Thats how it's done.
Okay, that was what I thought, so glad that I understand what you are saying.

jp1
2-26-17, 1:13pm
This bathroom issue heated up for the sake of the children in schools. (Where is that eyeroll emojii! ) It is taking place in the context of schools, and schools are a local issue. Let them, the locals, take care of it.



As soon as the Feds stop sending billions of dollars for education to the states I agree with you. But as long as that money flows it comes with strings, like not discriminating based on sex.

bae
2-26-17, 2:00pm
As soon as the Feds stop sending billions of dollars for education to the states I agree with you. But as long as that money flows it comes with strings, like not discriminating based on sex.

I think the 14th Amendment argument is stronger than the "we're sending you money" argument.

LDAHL
2-26-17, 2:26pm
I think IL is right. My read of it was that Trump wasn't forcing a particular approach. He was just leaving it to the States to decide.

bae
2-26-17, 2:33pm
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/24/us/transgender-bathroom-law.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

bae
2-26-17, 2:33pm
He was just leaving it to the States to decide.

"Leaving it to the States to decide" hasn't been a historically-viable approach to civil liberties in this nation.

LDAHL
2-26-17, 2:45pm
"Leaving it to the States to decide" hasn't been a historically-viable approach to civil liberties in this nation.

Even if you believe that, isn't it preferable to pursue whichever right you wish to establish through the the legal system rather than by administrative fiat?

bae
2-26-17, 2:53pm
Even if you believe that, isn't it preferable to pursue whichever right you wish to establish through the the legal system rather than by administrative fiat?

That ("administrative fiat") isn't how this one played out though. See above NYTimes article for the timeline.

An executive/administrative arm saying "We believe the law requires XYZ, and so this is how we will proceed" is exactly how the legal system works. If people disagree, they then proceed through the court system.

Suzanne
3-1-17, 9:52pm
I always grew up having to remind myself I was a girl. It wasn't about the body parts as it was almost entirely mental, I felt mentally male, it was that all the history I read was mostly HIS-story, that everything IMPORTANT and worth doing seemed to be done by men, etc.. I don't identify as transgendered. I'd call it growing up female in a world that I experienced and frankly experience to some degree as male centered, plus my personality may tend toward certain more male perspectives maybe (I don't think entirely because um face it, I'm not male :~) and am not running on male hormones etc.).

Me too. I was surprised and delighted to find that I'm not alone: I'm gender-queer!

Zoe Girl
3-1-17, 11:34pm
My friend who is transgender just flew back east. He did get comments at security which he used to educate the agent, and didn't get patted down or excessively searched. So middle of the road trip for him.