View Full Version : The Third Debate
Ultralight
10-20-16, 9:01am
I listened to the debate on NPR last night. It was really feisty and fun!
I think this contest is still up for grabs!
Any other thoughts?
Both candidates seemed to continue with the strategies they've been pursuing. Trump's bluster and threats vs. Clinton's painting Trump as an ogre. I did think the moderation was much better than in the past.
I don't see the contest as up for grabs though. It's hard to see a viable path to 270 electoral votes for Trump at this point.
I watched for a few minutes - it was like watching people chew the same food they had chewed on two other days. I had to turn it off.
greenclaire
10-20-16, 9:25am
I saw some 'highlights' this morning. I think Clinton will win the election very easily to be honest, I'm still fond of the theory that Trump was a Clinton plant all along to guarantee her victory.
I just hope for the whole world's sake that the 2020 candidates are in a different league to these two.
Ultralight
10-20-16, 9:40am
What about the silent majority rising up to vote for Trump?
What about the silent majority rising up to vote for Trump?
They scare me. A lot of the rhetoric makes it sound like folks who want to dump the entire US into a car and take the "Thelma and Louise" option, because they feel they have nothing to lose.
The media I saw and read focused on Trump's comments on accepting the election results and implied he was attacking the very root of democracy. I don't doubt that the election probably is rigged, not through any deception at the polls, but through dark money that goes under the radar as well as the connections between big money and the political process. I do not like Trump at all, but could also see a point where the press gives him a bad rap. It's good selling news to bash Trump these days, though at least some of his audacious statements are planned for shock and attention. I think Trump again showed his lack of thinking skills by talking around his relationship with Putin. He could have turned this into a positive by explaining the importance of a good relationship with one of the world's super powers rather than an adversarial relationship that Hillary might have. Hillary made good talk that may or may not be empty promises. I am mystified at how he seems to have strong support from the working classes when he proposes big tax cuts for the wealthy.
. He could have turned this into a positive by explaining the importance of a good relationship with one of the world's super powers rather than an adversarial relationship that Hillary might have.
I wonder whether he takes any advice from speech-debate coaches or just blows them all off.
frugal-one
10-20-16, 2:53pm
[QUOTE=UltraliteAngler;255186]I listened to the debate on NPR last night. It was really feisty and fun!
You have a sick idea of fun!
I'm still fond of the theory that Trump was a Clinton plant all along to guarantee her victory.
This has been my far-fetched idea all along - a huge, pre-orchestrated spectacle to hypnotize/distract the masses so the machine can carry on.
This has been my far-fetched idea all along - a huge, pre-orchestrated spectacle to hypnotize/distract the masses so the machine can carry on.
It's hard to believe that Trump could be in it for any reasonable reasons.......but also to just DO it for "fun".
I really do think the reason he's done so well (if you can call it that), is it should tell us how many people in this country are short-sighted and obnoxious and rude. Trump is a narcissistic bully and his obnoxious/uninformed/make-reality-up-as-you-go behavior has given lots of obnoxious people the green light to continue to act that way. I'm ashamed that politics have gotten to this.
I think Hillary will win by a larger margin than expected. I'm hoping that the quiet/sensible people will show up at the polls.
I honestly think Trump is a mental case. The psyche classes in colleges should use him as a case study in personality disorder, among other likely diagnoses.
Teacher Terry
10-20-16, 8:15pm
Cathy: I agree 100%.
I really do think the reason he's done so well (if you can call it that), is it should tell us how many people in this country are short-sighted and obnoxious and rude.
I think a lot of the dark energy pushing the Trump phenomenon along comes from statements like the above. For better or (mostly) worse, he speaks to a segment of the country that feels neglected and insulted by a political class that dismisses them as deplorable bitter clingers. I don't think they care much about his character. They see him as a way of hitting back against the people who look down on them.
For better or (mostly) worse, he speaks to a segment of the country that feels neglected and insulted by a political class that dismisses them as deplorable bitter clingers. I don't think they care much about his character. They see him as a way of hitting back against the people who look down on them.
Well said. Although I find him "deplorable," we actually have a fair number of Trump supporters in the rural communities near me. I find it hard to believe that some people I know support him. Kind of like Bernie supporters, they want to shake up the system even if it means throwing the baby out with the bathwater. They have told me they are just so fed up with political correctness and taxes that they are willing to overlook his shortcomings in hopes that it initiates revolutionary change in our government and the Republican Party. I think he is a total narcissistic bully who is totally unqualified and dangerous but I can understand to a degree their frustration. Hillary Clinton is not my favorite candidate but she is 1000x better than Trump.
catherine
10-21-16, 9:59am
I fell asleep during the last debate, but the pundits all caught me up the next day.
I agree with much of what was said here..
A lot of the rhetoric makes it sound like folks who want to dump the entire US into a car and take the "Thelma and Louise" option, because they feel they have nothing to lose.
That's true--my DH is one of the "silent majority" UA mentions--he's going to the polls to vote for Trump. He's had it. For that reason, and for the reasons cited above--all of Trump's outlandish rhetoric only serve to fuel the fire, while the rest of us stand there with our mouths gaping open
This has been my far-fetched idea all along - a huge, pre-orchestrated spectacle to hypnotize/distract the masses so the machine can carry on
It's an interesting theory! My theory is somewhat similar: I truly don't think Trump wants to be president. Sure there's probably that part of his ego that pictures himself replacing the chair in the Oval Office with a throne*, but IRL, I bet he NEVER expected to get this far, and has surprised himself along with the rest of us.
Now he's thinking, "oh, sh*t! I may actually have to move from my cushy life in the penthouse at Trump Towers and have my life dictated to by a bunch of political a$$es."
I bet he's PRAYING he loses.
*Yikes, what if he and Melania redecorate the White House?? What will THAT look like? And will he build a tunnel to his new hotel on Pennsylvania Ave?? Or will we be able to get a bundled ticket: tour of the White House half price with lodging at his hotel?
gimmethesimplelife
10-21-16, 5:43pm
I'm breathing easier now that it's looking more and more like a Hillary win. This may surprise some here due to the level of how tenacious and opiniated I can be but I have stayed out of politics lately and have taken that energy and poured it into my marriage which is probably a better place for it given the candidates this year. At this point about Trump....stick a fork in me, I'm done discussing him. As to Hillary, all I will say is that she came across as very regal to me (overall) in the last debate and I was glad to see that. Rob
It seems to me there are a sizable number of people who will vote for Trump because the idea of any president other than a white male is anathema. They may couch their decision otherwise, but that's their dirty little secret.
It seems to me there are a sizable number of people who will vote for Trump because the idea of any president other than a white male is anathema. They may couch their decision otherwise, but that's their dirty little secret.
I disagree, as a rule, conservatives pay little attention to race and gender.
catherine
10-21-16, 7:11pm
I disagree, as a rule, conservatives pay little attention to race and gender.
Not so sure about that, Alan. I think a lot of white males (including my own DH) hate Hillary because she's perceived by males to be a b****, or as as Donald would say, a "nasty woman." I'm not even a great lover of Hillary, but I think that she deserves more respect for exhibiting "male" qualities of strength and intelligence.
Some of my DDs friends have posted some really great Facebook "nasty woman" memes.
Not so sure about that, Alan. I think a lot of white males (including my own DH) hate Hillary because she's perceived by males to be a b****, or as as Donald would say, a "nasty woman." I'm not even a great lover of Hillary, but I think that she deserves more respect for exhibiting "male" qualities of strength and intelligence.
Some of my DDs friends have posted some really great Facebook "nasty woman" memes.
Perhaps you're placing more emphasis on the "woman" than the "nasty". It seems to me that in both your examples, you could focus on the actions behind the terms or the terms themselves, and conservatives are much more likely to focus on the former.
frugal-one
10-21-16, 9:09pm
The Republicans I know will vote Republican no matter who is running..... following the herd mentality.
catherine
10-21-16, 9:22pm
Perhaps you're placing more emphasis on the "woman" than the "nasty". It seems to me that in both your examples, you could focus on the actions behind the terms or the terms themselves, and conservatives are much more likely to focus on the former.
Not really a retort--just a question. Name 3 women you really admire. (And don't say your wife or your mother). And why?
Perhaps you're placing more emphasis on the "woman" than the "nasty". It seems to me that in both your examples, you could focus on the actions behind the terms or the terms themselves, and conservatives are much more likely to focus on the former.
I've seen a barrage of vile misogyny directed at Hillary Clinton, much like the frankly racist hatred directed at President Obama--if these are thoughtful conservatives, I'm a Bulgarian milkmaid. I'd like to think real conservatives would repudiate their vulgar brethren, but I don't see that happening.
Ms. Clinton is not the devil incarnate; if she were a male, you can bet she'd be seen as what she is--a middle of the road Democrat, competent but not exciting.
catherine
10-21-16, 9:24pm
I've seen a barrage of vile misogyny directed at Hillary Clinton, much like the frankly racist hatred directed at President Obama--if these are thoughtful conservatives, I'm a Bulgarian milkmaid. I'd like to think real conservatives would repudiate their vulgar brethren, but I don't see that happening.
Ms. Clinton is not the devil incarnate; if she were a male, you can bet she'd be seen as what she is--a middle of the road Democrat, competent but not exciting.
+1
There are certainly pockets of ugly race and gender bias about, but more commonly it is more insidious and even beyond our rational awareness. There are plenty of studies around to support this. I don't think any group is immune. (Even the conservatives.)
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/04/upshot/the-measuring-sticks-of-racial-bias-.html
Perhaps you're placing more emphasis on the "woman" than the "nasty". It seems to me that in both your examples, you could focus on the actions behind the terms or the terms themselves, and conservatives are much more likely to focus on the former.
Are you trying to get us to believe that Hillary has acted more nastily than Donald?
sweetana3
10-21-16, 9:28pm
Eleanor Burns, Jenny Doan, Angela Merkel
Eleanor and Jenny have created hugesuccessful businesses that employ many members of their family and others.
Angela, strength of conviction
Not really a retort--just a question. Name 3 women you really admire. (And don't say your wife or your mother). And why?Forgive me but I'm not sure what that would accomplish other than separating people I admire by their gender. I honestly don't see the point, especially since I've maintained for years that everyone should be treated the same regardless of gender/race/nationality/religion or political leanings, as well as lamented the popular notion of identity politics.
If you'll allow me to answer in terms of why I may admire anyone, it would have to do with them being strong, confident, responsible and caring (among other attributes), which are qualities anyone may achieve.
I can assure you that there are plenty of people I do not find cause to admire, although in no case does it relate to their gender.
Are you trying to get us to believe that Hillary has acted more nastily than Donald?No, it's not a contest. I'm suggesting that if someone calls her a nasty woman, maybe they just mean she's nasty and her sex is irrelevant. If someone called Trump a nasty man, would you think they only said that because he was a man?
No, it's not a contest. I'm suggesting that if someone calls her a nasty woman, maybe they just mean she's nasty and her sex is irrelevant. If someone called Trump a nasty man, would you think they only said that because he was a man?
When's the last time anyone called a male public figure nasty? If any man deserved it surely it would be trump. But we don't. We use gender neutral terms like deplorable, which several people on this board of both sexes have tried to claim was meant to describe them. I've seen a number of women online claim nasty (via Janet jackson's song and so forth) after trump's comments but no men. It just doesn't seem to be a descriptor they connect with, so yeah, his choice of word was all about her sex.
catherine
10-21-16, 10:54pm
Forgive me but I'm not sure what that would accomplish other than separating people I admire by their gender. I honestly don't see the point, especially since I've maintained for years that everyone should be treated the same regardless of gender/race/nationality/religion or political leanings, as well as lamented the popular notion of identity politics.
If you'll allow me to answer in terms of why I may admire anyone, it would have to do with them being strong, confident, responsible and caring (among other attributes), which are qualities anyone may achieve.
I can assure you that there are plenty of people I do not find cause to admire, although in no case does it relate to their gender.
I withdraw the question. I really was just interested in females you admire. I personally admire Eleanor Roosevelt, Anne Frank, and Dorothy Day, to name three.
Forgive me but I'm not sure what that would accomplish other than separating people I admire by their gender. I honestly don't see the point, especially since I've maintained for years that everyone should be treated the same regardless of gender/race/nationality/religion or political leanings, as well as lamented the popular notion of identity politics.
If you'll allow me to answer in terms of why I may admire anyone, it would have to do with them being strong, confident, responsible and caring (among other attributes), which are qualities anyone may achieve.
I can assure you that there are plenty of people I do not find cause to admire, although in no case does it relate to their gender.
While I believe you are honest when you say that you don't judge by gender, ethnicity, etc, the problem is that you aren't everyone. Millions of other people do, and for people who are non white males there is the need to constantly take that reality into account.
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