View Full Version : Election predictions?
Ultralight
11-8-16, 8:14am
Who is going to win it?
I agree Clinton, but am interested in by how much and what the rest of the races look like.
I'm just wondering if it's going to be won today - or if it will be contested. I'm also wondering (people have already committed to doing this) how many electors at electoral college will ignore the results. The process used to feel like it was set in stone - but this year it's been feeling like it's cracking around the edges.
Hillary.
Although strange things have happened in this campaign, so I wouldn't be surprised if the unimaginable happened.
The Grifter will defeat the Groper, and will claim a "historic victory" and nonexistent mandate. This seems inevitable.
The real change, if change there be, will be down-ballot.
Hillary.........but like catherine said, I wouldn't be surprised if the unimaginable happened. DH said "It will all be over today".......but then I wondered about other problems......like the hanging chads, etc.,
Damn, I'm so sick of this. Hopefully this IS the resolution of some things...........let's hope the "basket" of unimaginables doesn't happen!
The news around here in larger places shows hundreds of people waiting in line to vote for several hours. I hope my little town church (where my voting place is) doesn't have that problem. My legs won't take it. Maybe if I take a cane, they'll let me move up? :~)
Anyhow.........fingers and everything else crossed! This country needs some peace!
iris lilies
11-8-16, 9:28am
Hillary will get it.
Hillary.........but like catherine said, I wouldn't be surprised if the unimaginable happened. DH said "It will all be over today".......but then I wondered about other problems......like the hanging chads, etc.,
Damn, I'm so sick of this. Hopefully this IS the resolution of some things...........let's hope the "basket" of unimaginables doesn't happen!
The news around here in larger places shows hundreds of people waiting in line to vote for several hours. I hope my little town church (where my voting place is) doesn't have that problem. My legs won't take it. Maybe if I take a cane, they'll let me move up? :~)
Anyhow.........fingers and everything else crossed! This country needs some peace!
Def. take your cane, Cathy. In the Maine caucus, they were letting people with canes and walkers go in first to caucus (4 hour lines in Portland),
Who is going to win it?
The establishment.
Hillary. I'm at about 50/50 odds for the dems getting control of the senate. A lot more people will be legal when they smoke marijuana. I wonder if Trump does not win, whether this will be his last hurrah in politics or if he will come back to haunt us?
...
The news around here in larger places shows hundreds of people waiting in line to vote for several hours. I hope my little town church (where my voting place is) doesn't have that problem. My legs won't take it. Maybe if I take a cane, they'll let me move up? :~)
Anyhow.........fingers and everything else crossed! This country needs some peace!
I suppose Hillary; I hope so, given the alternative. I'm not looking forward to the years of naked misogyny that will surely follow. She's competent, if uninspiring.
About the long lines in polling places--I'd probably have to file an absentee ballot if I didn't vote by mail already. Age takes its toll. What with rampant attempts at voter suppression (see recent court decisions), disappearing polls (often by design), voter intimidation, and other issues, it's surely past time for universal mail-in ballots.
Ultralight
11-8-16, 10:03am
My prediction: America hits rock bottom.
My prediction: America hits rock bottom.
I'm not so sure of that. It may be a mistake to think of "America" solely in terms of the political system. In terms of the economy, technology and culture, we're not so bad. Look around the world. Europe is trying to transform itself into a sort of bureaucratic empire, but strains to manage a common currency or refugee crisis in any coherent manner, much less the mid-range military threat Russia is shaping up to be. Venezuela has crippled itself to the point of starvation with the sort of "progressive" policies people want to try here. The Chinese financial system seems almost designed to eventually implode, although their accounting is so opaque no one can tell when.
I'm pretty sanguine about our future, especially compared to the rest of the world. A hack like Clinton or a buffoon like Trump can only do so much harm. Most of the real action occurs outside the political realm. That's why it's important to limit the role government plays in our lives.
I find myself agreeing with LDAHL :0! in the macro. The economy has grown from near-depression in the last eight years to tepid growth, and the stock market is flourishing. ISIS's threat has been nearly neutralized in Syria and Iraq, according to several sources. Tesla just introduced innovative solar roof tiles/panels that could revolutionize the alternative power industry. We still have problems (like health "care"), but I believe they can be fixed. Things have a way of working out.
Just got back from voting. I go to a voting place in a small rural community. I couldn't believe the turnout! I stood in line (with bad knees) for an hour and 20 minutes........which is fairly short from what I've heard. The ridiculous thing was they only had 2 voting booths. No fist fights in the line. haha You just have to know when to keep your mouth shut.
I went at 6:40 this morning and was in and out in about 6 minutes....meanwhile a dear friend in NYC was in line 40 minutes at that time and still 2 blocks away from the building. He ended up taking 2 hours 45 minutes. Trump votes at the same polling station....wonder if he was going to have to wait in that line or get to use a side door.
Just got back from voting. I go to a voting place in a small rural community. I couldn't believe the turnout! I stood in line (with bad knees) for an hour and 20 minutes........which is fairly short from what I've heard. The ridiculous thing was they only had 2 voting booths. No fist fights in the line. haha You just have to know when to keep your mouth shut.
Most of the municipalities in my county added extra booths and poll workers this year. We also have equipment on standby that can produce additional ballots real-time if the turnout exceeds the 70% or so they are predicting. Nobody wants any real or manufactured scandals for this one. I was in line when the polls opened with about 100 people ahead of me, but got through in about 20-25 minutes. And that included the picture-ID check Wisconsin now requires.
Teacher Terry
11-8-16, 12:21pm
I don't know why everyone does not just vote early. I did not wait at all.
I don't know why everyone does not just vote early. I did not wait at all.
According to a friend in a nearby town, she and many of her friends voted early and it seemed to vary from 1/2 hour to 3 hours. I thought I chose a good time (9:30-10a.m.), because people who worked were probably done and it wasn't lunchtime yet. But still, it was a long wait.
Teacher Terry
11-8-16, 1:00pm
We had a ton of locations to choose from so maybe that made the difference.
I'm happy that Maryland has early voting, so we voted last Friday. Our "I voted' sticker is quite impressive- the Presidential seal - Haven't seen one like that on Facebook pictures. I just keep saying to myself "All will be well, all will be well, all manner of things will be well."
We had a ton of locations to choose from so maybe that made the difference.
They didn't tell me about the long wait when I first got there, but when I got up closer, I could hear them telling people the much shorter waits at other places.......which were at least 10 miles away, so who knows how many may have shown up in the time it would take to get there. I'm glad I waited there, although I know my body will hurt badly for a couple days, having stood up all that time. In all the time I've lived here (34 years), there's never been more than a couple people at this polling place. But last year, they combined 2 townships, so that may have made today much longer. It will be interesting seeing the national percentage of voter turnout this time.
Williamsmith
11-8-16, 1:28pm
I did what almost every angry white middleclass male in rural America did. I helped my wife tie her shoes and we went and voted for Trump and then stopped at the local gun shop and purchased a few more firearms and a boat load of ammo just in case. No matter who wins, it will be Rule by Force and Control by Distraction.
I don't know why everyone does not just vote early. I did not wait at all.
I'm registered to always get an absentee ballot since I travel a lot for work. I dropped it off Sunday. No waiting. But I DO miss pulling the big lever! That KA-CHUNK sound of one's vote being tabulated is very satisfying.
rosarugosa
11-8-16, 2:35pm
We voted at about 2 PM because we had the day off for some appointments. We're usually at the polls at 7 PM after work. No lines, no waiting at all.
iris lilies
11-8-16, 2:36pm
The people working polls in my ward were smart ones. The usual dunderheads and sleepinf people must just work the small elections. Of the 8 bodies I saw, 7 looked as though they were entirely "with it." That brought me some comfort.
Ultralight
11-8-16, 3:03pm
I voted Green Party straight ticket.
Teacher Terry
11-8-16, 3:08pm
Latinos in NV are voting in record numbers. I am guessing they didn't like being called rapists and murders:))
I don't know why everyone does not just vote early. I did not wait at all.
My state is completely vote-by-mail. No polling places, no lines, no ritual or grandeur.
Just sitting at the dining room table a few weeks back, avoiding voter intimidation from the free cookies that were being offered as bribes by my wife.
Now, we have another problem with vote-by-mail, or voting in general, around here. State law requires that our ballots have no identifying marks - secret balloting and all that. Yet our county-level official in charge of voting keeps buying cool vote counting/ballot-tracking systems that among other things.....have unique identifiers on the ballot materials. She's lost several cases brought by our local Greens to stop breaking the ballot secrecy law, she responds by simply buying a *new* system that has *different* uniquely identifying marks.
She assures us that the marks can't be tracked to the individual voter. Because, well "trust the unexaminable software".
I participated in the pre-election verification process several times, to "calibrate" the machines and make sure they were working. During one of the test runs, one of the Greens simply walked over to the computer running the "trust me" software, plugged in a USB key, typed a few things, and came away with "secret" information. So, another expensive system was thrown out...
The "ballot-tracking" software they are using this election cycle lets me see that my ballot has arrived and been counted, using the not-a-unique-ballot-identifier, over the Internet. Yay! Unfortunately, there's basically no security to the system, so anyone else with half a brain can see who all has voted. I poked at their web interface, and there's nothing to prevent me from grabbing the whole list really.
Grrrr.
I voted Green Party straight ticket.
I'm a modern mugwump this year. I voted for all the Republicans except the one on top of the ballot. I opted for the befuddled Libertarian.
Tonight, as I recline on my throne of skulls with a refreshing glass of poor children's tears, I will watch the proceedings with mixed feelings. With no paleoconservative or establishment Republican to vote for (unless you count McMullin's no-hope crusade), the best I can see ahead is damned-if-you-don't and a torrent of really expensive free stuff.
We voted at about 2 PM because we had the day off for some appointments. We're usually at the polls at 7 PM after work. No lines, no waiting at all.
Don't all polls close at 6 p.m. or is that just in some states?
My state is completely vote-by-mail. No polling places, no lines, no ritual or grandeur.
Just sitting at the dining room table a few weeks back, avoiding voter intimidation from the free cookies that were being offered as bribes by my wife.
Now, we have another problem with vote-by-mail, or voting in general, around here. State law requires that our ballots have no identifying marks - secret balloting and all that. Yet our county-level official in charge of voting keeps buying cool vote counting/ballot-tracking systems that among other things.....have unique identifiers on the ballot materials. She's lost several cases brought by our local Greens to stop breaking the ballot secrecy law, she responds by simply buying a *new* system that has *different* uniquely identifying marks.
She assures us that the marks can't be tracked to the individual voter. Because, well "trust the unexaminable software".
I participated in the pre-election verification process several times, to "calibrate" the machines and make sure they were working. During one of the test runs, one of the Greens simply walked over to the computer running the "trust me" software, plugged in a USB key, typed a few things, and came away with "secret" information. So, another expensive system was thrown out...
The "ballot-tracking" software they are using this election cycle lets me see that my ballot has arrived and been counted, using the not-a-unique-ballot-identifier, over the Internet. Yay! Unfortunately, there's basically no security to the system, so anyone else with half a brain can see who all has voted. I poked at their web interface, and there's nothing to prevent me from grabbing the whole list really.
Grrrr.
Seems like sending in a ballot by mail has a lot of possible problems too. Can't they get lost/stolen? Seems like there's no really 100% safe way any more.
Miss Cellane
11-8-16, 4:50pm
I don't know why everyone does not just vote early. I did not wait at all.
In my state, the only way to vote early is to request an absentee ballot. You have to give a reason why you can't make it to the polls on Election Day. And then you run the risk of the ballot getting lost in the mail.
My polling place is less than 2 miles from home, and easy to get to before work. I arrived at 8, as usual, when the polls open. They were not letting anyone in to the building, because they were already over capacity for fire regulations. Usually I wait in a line of about 5-10 people and have no problem. Today I had to park half a mile from the entrance, and wait 30 minutes to get in the building and another 10 to get a ballot. They did keep the line moving as fast as possible. People told me there were there by 7:15 this morning, which I don't think anyone was expecting.
While driving to work after voting, I passed another polling place in town and the line was out the door, down the side of the church, and down the sidewalk.
I don't know if more people are voting this year, or everyone just wanted to get it over with early.
And of course, the folks up north in Dixville Notch and Hart's Location voted at midnight.
freshstart
11-8-16, 4:51pm
I just keep saying to myself "All will be well, all will be well, all manner of things will be well."
I was saying just that to myself while in line!
rosarugosa
11-8-16, 5:17pm
CathyA: They always close at 8PM around here (Boston area).
iris lilies
11-8-16, 5:17pm
DH always drives his absentee ballot to the election board and hand delivers it to them. He doesnt give them an opportunity to " lose" it.
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/11/8/1593108/-It-s-Election-Day-2016-Vote-Don-t-let-anyone-intimidate-you-or-other-voters
Poll closing times across the country.
DH always drives his absentee ballot to the election board and hand delivers it to them. He doesnt give them an opportunity to " lose" it.
And how is that ballot counted and reported?
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/11/8/1593108/-It-s-Election-Day-2016-Vote-Don-t-let-anyone-intimidate-you-or-other-voters
Poll closing times across the country.
Thanks jp1!
iris lilies
11-8-16, 8:15pm
And how is that ballot counted and reported?
Is this a trick question? It is an absentee ballot. He votes absentee because he works at a polling place not his own on election day and he cant leave that workplace to vote.
And how is that ballot counted and reported?
I can't speak for MO, but I went online and was able to confirm that my ballot signature had been accepted and that my ballot will be counted along with all the other "accepted" absentee ballots at 8pm tonight when the polls close.
Ultralight
11-8-16, 9:23pm
Trump's got this thing. He is way ahead in OH.
I'm having a panic attack.
Is this a trick question? It is an absentee ballot. He votes absentee because he works at a polling place not his own on election day and he cant leave that workplace to vote.
Not a trick question at all. Once he hands in that ballot, how does it get properly counted and reported? What chain-of-custody exists to demonstrate that a fair and correct count is occurring?
Ultralight
11-8-16, 10:24pm
This is what happens when The Dems sell out and screw the workin' man.
ApatheticNoMore
11-8-16, 10:45pm
This is what happens when The Dems sell out and screw the workin' man.
and throw the primary to Hillary.
Ultralight
11-8-16, 10:47pm
and throw the primary to Hillary.
This would have been a whole different game with Bernie.
iris lilies
11-8-16, 11:26pm
Not a trick question at all. Once he hands in that ballot, how does it get properly counted and reported? What chain-of-custody exists to demonstrate that a fair and correct count is occurring?
Oh, I see.
I dont know how it is handled after he turns it in. There is likely opportunity to lose track of it if someone wants to do that.
DH got home a few minutes ago and said that the blank ballot forms were missing this morning when he arrived at the polling place where hevworked. The ballots, cell phone, and special election equipment was missing. Other, secondary equipment was there. Election headquarters had to print another set of ballots for his place, made especially complicated because it covers 3 precincts each with a different ballot. Interesting to know where those many hundreds of ballots are. St Louis corruption, simple theft, or just incompetence?
He did have an international election watch team at his polling place, watching to make sure we have a fair election. He said there were 35 teams from this specifuc organization scattered across the country. Guess they know the hotspots.
iris lilies
11-8-16, 11:27pm
I can't speak for MO, but I went online and was able to confirm that my ballot signature had been accepted and that my ballot will be counted along with all the other "accepted" absentee ballots at 8pm tonight when the polls close.
I havent heard of this for my city.
iris lilies
11-9-16, 12:16am
The Grey Lady called it for Trump. now you know how hard that had to go down for the NYT.
I have been saying for 2 years that Hil will be our next President. Yeah, so much for my predictive powers. At least I don't have to eat worms like my brother. He vowed to eat some earthworms if Trump became President. He is on Facebook asking for recipes right now.
Edited to say:
nope, sorry, the fat lady hasnt sung yet.
freshstart
11-9-16, 1:26am
it's all but over, I am physically sick
iris lilies
11-9-16, 1:58am
I believe UL called a Trump victory. way to go, UL! I'll stand beside you at the blackjack table.
All I can say is god I hope LDAHL is right.
I'm hoping I'm gonna wake up from this nightmare.
I feel like I've walked through the looking glass. How could this have happened?
Ultralight
11-9-16, 6:53am
There are going to be a lot of Dems that cry "sexism!"
But that ain't what the Trump win was about.
The Trump win was the workin' man's revenge.
You beat a dog for only so long before it bites back. And like dogs, the workin' man ain't very rational.
I know this because I grew up with these types and worked alongside them in factories and warehouses.
I know UA, that is a big part of it. I also believe that sexism is a large part of it. And racism. I live in a state and an area that is so diverse, I can't really relate to the large areas of the country that voted for this I admit.
Ultralight
11-9-16, 7:44am
I actually don't think it is much about sex or race. Immigration? Yeah, it is about that. I think Christianity is a decent-sized part of it.
But make no mistake about it. This is the workin' man's revenge.
Angry, white middle class voted. I hope we survive.
This is the workin' man's revenge.
Angry, white middle class voted. I hope we survive.
Not to worry, to paraphrase Merle Haggard "We'll vote a little Trump at the ballot, and sing a little bit of these workin man blues."
Ultralight
11-9-16, 8:01am
As long as we don't end up in nuclear war, we'll survive the next 4 to 8 years.
I expect the first order of business after the inauguration will be another attempt to repeal Obamacare, followed by executive orders to degrade it if a filibuster holds up. Start planning accordingly.
But make no mistake about it. This is the workin' man's revenge.
I agree. I wish the DNC hadn't steamrolled Bernie. I'm not saying that he could have beat Trump, but I think he would have had a decent shot, given what we learned from last night.. which was
a) You can't put up a candidate that people aren't inspired by. People voted Hillary to vote the party, but not for her. It was a huge mistake not to allow people to feel something for the candidate. Bernie's supporters, like Trump's, were passionate about him.
b) And we thought the REPUBLICANS were in big trouble. Seems the Democrats are in big trouble, too. If they couldn't hold onto their base in the Rust Belt--if they gave it up so easily to a Republican, what does that tell you about the party?
Donald Trump is the World's Best Salesman. Say what you like about his narcissism, his bravado, his insults, his fear-mongering--He very deftly massacred 17 Republican competitors in the primary PLUS the favored presidential candidate--with a fraction of the resources spent and minimal support from his own party. I think the two parties should send future candidates to Trump University for sales training. All you need is to turn your competitors into Garbage Pail Kids, promise people the moon and the stars, fill rhetoric with ridiculous hyperbole, legitimize feelings of distrust and fear, and provide them with a big, shiny Golden Calf to aspire to.
I think you're right, UA. This was a big protest vote against the status quo.
Ultralight
11-9-16, 8:11am
Not to worry, to paraphrase Merle Haggard "We'll vote a little Trump at the ballot, and sing a little bit of these workin man blues."
This is a good one too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AHQRaKUuJQ
Ultralight
11-9-16, 8:13am
"My mind ain't nothin' but a total blank... I think I'll just stay here and drank." -- Merle
All you need is to turn your competitors into Garbage Pail Kids, promise people the moon and the stars, fill rhetoric with ridiculous hyperbole, legitimize feelings of distrust and fear, and provide them with a big, shiny Golden Calf to aspire to.
Well, he was a Democrat for most of his life, he learned well.
freshstart
11-9-16, 9:11am
the working man was duped, Hillary had a lot more to offer him. Marry in haste, repent at leisure
All I can say is god I hope LDAHL is right.
I haven't been right about much this year. A year ago I was expecting to toast Bush or Rubio last night. I thought Trump would have no chance in the general election. I used to think the man was dangerously stupid. Now I'm just thinking he's dangerous. He seems to have turned the Left's stridulous identity politics against them.
Paul Ryan is going to need to do some careful navigating between principle and populist pandering for the next couple of years.
the working man was duped, Hillary had a lot more to offer him. Marry in haste, repent at leisure
I think one of the driving forces behind the Trump phenomenon is that kind of thinking. A lot of his supporters resented the condescension behind the lectures about how they weren't "voting their interests" as much as they resented the imputations of ignorance and racism from their self-anointed betters. Look at the Opinion Section of any edition of the New York Times, and the contempt wafts off it in waves.
Maybe 2016 will come to be thought of as the revenge of the deplorables.
People seemed to have been dissatisfied with our political system for years. It looks like this is going to be how it will be dismantled. I anticipate big set back for clean energy and other environmental issues.
I believe principle is gone. I believe the hate shown in this election has broken us. The fact that this person will have a Congress behind him and the power to control the Supreme Court is frightening. Not to forget his lack of control. Nuclear codes? God help us all.
UL, Working MAN'S revenge...sexism clearly. The pale males have spoken and they want the 50s back.
A lot of his supporters resented the condescension behind the lectures about how they weren't "voting their interests" as much as they resented the imputations of ignorance and racism from their self-anointed betters. Look at the Opinion Section of any edition of the New York Times, and the contempt wafts off it in waves.
I think this is exactly right.
UL, Working MAN'S revenge...sexism clearly. The pale males have spoken and they want the 50s back.
I think that's part of the narrative which got us here. Seeing the various ism's (race, sex, age, etc.) in everything and then attributing bad intentions to the generic malefactors.
Miss Cellane
11-9-16, 9:58am
Yes, it might have been too much for some to have the first woman candidate follow immediately on the heels of the first black president. If you were already feeling marginalized, you would perhaps tend to vote for the candidate who looks the most like you. Even if he was nothing like you.
Yes, it might have been too much for some to have the first woman candidate follow immediately on the heels of the first black president. If you were already feeling marginalized, you would perhaps tend to vote for the candidate who looks the most like you. Even if he was nothing like you.
Yes, another good example. Thanks.
Yes, it might have been too much for some to have the first woman candidate follow immediately on the heels of the first black president. If you were already feeling marginalized, you would perhaps tend to vote for the candidate who looks the most like you. Even if he was nothing like you.
So maybe all those years of relentless identity politics have made white people think of themselves as white people rather than just people? Perhaps, but it may also be a reaction against a political elite that's long on virtue-signaling but short on performance. Enough people seem to feel they have so little to lose that they're willing to risk a wild card like Trump.
I think the comparisons to Brexit are valid.
iris lilies
11-9-16, 10:21am
I got really tired of the analysis of Trumps supporters as being blue collar rubes when the strongest Trump supporters I know are very smart business women with advanced degrees. And they were RABID Trumpsters.
Sure my immediate experience is anecdotal, but it certainly reflected my little world experience. Oh and yeah, fire the damned pollsters.
One time i voted for Nader. Another time I voted for Perot. This time the outsider actually won. I'm stunned. But if you remove party and platform and look at through a sociology lens, we can say that after decades of struggle the outsider finally did it. He aligned himself with republicans to get it done but that's just a path for an outsider to get there.
I don't support the guy but it is astounding that the outsider finally did it.
iris lilies
11-9-16, 12:03pm
And now the Dow is up.
My predictions are totally worthless.
Teacher Terry
11-9-16, 12:21pm
I grew up in a blue class working family and none of them would vote for Trump. People are stupid and now they will suffer. We will be the laughing stock of the world. My sister always said that the average person is stupid and I did not believe it but now I do. People will lose their health insurance. Ryan talked about that being the first thing on the list. People that retired early with pre-existing conditions will probably have to go back to work for the insurance. It literally made me sick last night watching it.
[QUOTE=Teacher Terry;256718]I grew up in a blue class working family and none of them would vote for Trump. People are stupid and now they will suffer. We will be the laughing stock of the world. My sister always said that the average person is stupid and I did not believe it ut now I do./QUOTE]
Keep dismissing 59 million people as "stupid", and Trump will only be the beginning.
Teacher Terry
11-9-16, 1:53pm
I didn't realize how racist so many people are. How someone that made fun of someone with a disability, called Latinos rapists and murderers, what he says about Muslims, etc could ever get elected is beyond me. I don't think he wants to run the country. He will either delegate everything or quit. If he stays in he won't age like every other president bcause he truly does not care about anyone but himself.
I'm hoping that Trump is "just" a user and did whatever he could to rally up masses to vote for him, and that now, he will have different behavior. I really feel that very few people around him would tolerate his behavior, if he kept it up in the White House.
Hell, I have no clue what will happen. He's totally unpredictable. Did you watch Hillary's concession speech today? Bless her heart. I feel so bad for her. She's a very strong woman, and the world will be worse off without her as president.
I think painting this as a racist/sexist/xyzzy_ist victory is missing the point, even if it makes rationalization easier.
But keep at it.
I think painting this as a racist/sexist/xyzzy_ist victory is missing the point, even if it makes rationalization easier.
But keep at it.
But I bought the t-shirt
1646
I don't know what a xyzzyist is. Does that mean I am one?
frugal-one
11-9-16, 2:44pm
This is what happens when The Dems sell out and screw the workin' man.
You have no clue!!
There are going to be a lot of Dems that cry "sexism!"
But that ain't what the Trump win was about.
The Trump win was the workin' man's revenge.
You beat a dog for only so long before it bites back. And like dogs, the workin' man ain't very rational.
I know this because I grew up with these types and worked alongside them in factories and warehouses.
You will get what you wished for! Trump represents big business... he want to abolish minimum wage and have fewer regulations for employees. Everything will be about the corporation making more money. Watch and see..... people will be asked to work as many hours as the employer says with little compensation or safety protections. He also wants to raise the age to get social security... that is work until you die! The list goes on. I am thankful I am already retired. I don't think that is going to be possible (or nearly impossible) with Trump in office. The rich will get richer.
From Rogar: People seemed to have been dissatisfied with our political system for years. It looks like this is going to be how it will be dismantled. I anticipate big set back for clean energy and other environmental issues.
I don't know what a xyzzyist is. Does that mean I am one?
YOU ARE IN A MAZE OF TWISTY LITTLE PASSAGES, ALL ALIKE.
Teacher Terry
11-9-16, 2:48pm
Frugal one: you are right that the people will get what they deserve or at least the ones that voted for him. Unfortunately, people with a brain, heart and empathy for others will suffer too.
I don't know what a xyzzyist is. Does that mean I am one?
I'm guessing the meaning meant was "a placeholder name, a word without meaning intended to be substituted by some objects pertaining to the context where it is used"
But I know it better from a computer game I was playing around 35 years ago :-)
I'm guessing the meaning meant was "a placeholder name, a word without meaning intended to be substituted by some objects pertaining to the context where it is used"
But I know it better from a computer game I was playing around 35 years ago :-)
Thanks. I thought I needed to check another one of those privileges I didn't know I had.
YOU ARE IN A MAZE OF TWISTY LITTLE PASSAGES, ALL ALIKE.
Oh. Those guys with the funny dice.
I grew up in a blue class working family and none of them would vote for Trump. People are stupid and now they will suffer. We will be the laughing stock of the world. My sister always said that the average person is stupid and I did not believe it but now I do. People will lose their health insurance. Ryan talked about that being the first thing on the list. People that retired early with pre-existing conditions will probably have to go back to work for the insurance. It literally made me sick last night watching it.
The media does say that the group that carried Trump was the uneducated white rural bunch. I don't know that stupid is quite the right word as I'm sure a lot of them have special skills, but it might be fair to say they are less informed on political issues. Some may not have a science background to understand climate change, or a half-decent knowledge of global politics and geography, or maybe have never had a business or economics class.
That said, I get the picture that a lot of people that voted for him didn't really like him. They felt some sort of worse fear from the establishment, whether it was real or demonized by Trump. Fear is a strong motivator.
Teacher Terry
11-9-16, 4:45pm
In the past when my candidate does not win it is really not that big a deal because we trust our leaders to act/speak rationally, rely on expert advice/advisors,etc and generally behave in a way that is respectful of the office they hold. No, I don't always agree with the decisions made but again I think they are well thought out. Trump is indeed scary because he can't seem to control himself. A exit poll of some of his supporters say that they were mad about the coming raises in their premiums for ACA. Well now they won't have to worry about that because I am sure they will just have no coverage like the old days. The few people I saw interviewed were far from rocket scientists:))
It does seem like the ones who supported Trump might be the most vulnerable to end up worse off. If his scheme of trickle down economics comes to be it won't be the wealthy who will get hit and any benefit for the less well off is unknown at best. I know people who think they would rather self insure or go without than be in Obamacare. There's certainly the opposite out there, too.
ApatheticNoMore
11-9-16, 5:30pm
No, I don't always agree with the decisions made but again I think they are well thought out.
like the Iraq war for instance ...
he does have a loose cannon quality, and it is scary, but I don't think a lot of U.S. policy was ever well thought out.
A exit poll of some of his supporters say that they were mad about the coming raises in their premiums for ACA. Well now they won't have to worry about that because I am sure they will just have no coverage like the old days.
If the deductible is too high to use the health insurance it kind of amounts to the same thing. I think a basic physical may be covered without meeting the deductible though. But things like 6k deductibles do not work in a country with a low median wage and a low savings rate.
The few people I saw interviewed were far from rocket scientists
interviewed by whom? where? and no selective bias at all? Look I'm not saying all Trump supporters are geniuses with hearts of saints or anything (actually I will empathetically argue they are definitely not all any such thing) but anyone can see the bias likely to exist in many interviews.
Ultralight
11-9-16, 5:30pm
On a personal level, this election was powerful for me. I voted Green.
From 2004 through 2012 I had been voting out of fear.
"Vote for the lesser evil."
"Think about the supreme court!"
"If you don't vote for 'the progressive' then you are kicked out of our social circle."
Well, I got tired of that. Fed up.
So I voted my conscience -- both yesterday and back in the primary.
I will never vote out of fear again.
On a personal level, this election was powerful for me. I voted Green. . . .
"Vote for the lesser evil."
"Think about the supreme court!"
"If you don't vote for 'the progressive' then you are kicked out of our social circle."
Well, I got tired of that. Fed up.
So I voted my conscience -- both yesterday and back in the primary.
I will never vote out of fear again.
I agree. I voted Green for the same reasons.
So I voted my conscience -- both yesterday and back in the primary.
I will never vote out of fear again.
I had on my "Snow 2016 / Make Westeros Great Again" t-shirt when I dropped by the pub in the village last night to pick up some takeout. Someone got in my face and offered violence to me because of my abuse of cis-het-white-male-privilege in voting 3rd-party, which had cost The Annointed One her place in history.
Oddly though, I wasn't fearful...
Ultralight
11-9-16, 7:58pm
I mean this, bae. I am sorry to hear that. Though I am glad you were unafraid.
No more fear-voting! I ain't doing it.
rosarugosa
11-9-16, 8:12pm
I voted Green Party, although I knew Clinton would win easily in Massachusetts no matter how I voted. But we legalized the weed and will have happier farm animals, so not all is lost.
I had on my "Snow 2016 / Make Westeros Great Again" t-shirt when I dropped by the pub in the village last night to pick up some takeout. Someone got in my face and offered violence to me because of my abuse of cis-het-white-male-privilege in voting 3rd-party, which had cost The Annointed One her place in history.
Oddly though, I wasn't fearful...
You had it coming. The pantsuit mafia will be in touch.
On a personal level, this election was powerful for me. I voted Green.
From 2004 through 2012 I had been voting out of fear.
"Vote for the lesser evil."
"Think about the supreme court!"
"If you don't vote for 'the progressive' then you are kicked out of our social circle."
Well, I got tired of that. Fed up.
So I voted my conscience -- both yesterday and back in the primary.
I will never vote out of fear again.
In a good year, I go with fear. This year I went with disgust and voted third party.
frugal-one
11-9-16, 9:05pm
On a personal level, this election was powerful for me. I voted Green.
From 2004 through 2012 I had been voting out of fear.
"Vote for the lesser evil."
"Think about the supreme court!"
"If you don't vote for 'the progressive' then you are kicked out of our social circle."
Well, I got tired of that. Fed up.
So I voted my conscience -- both yesterday and back in the primary.
I will never vote out of fear again.
Why vote at all? Your candidate did not have a snowballs chance in hell. You would have been better staying home!
iris lilies
11-9-16, 9:53pm
Why vote at all? Your candidate did not have a snowballs chance in hell. You would have been better staying home!
Is that really the ONLY reason to vote, to "win?"
I dont think it is.,plus, staying home keeps someone from voting on down-ballot races and ballot initiatives and retention of judges.
I vote in every election, the Presidential election is just one of many.
I also vote in all elections, pay attention to local politics without it taking over my life. I will not blame anyone for their vote, and I had to do some extra research this time to feel confident.
Is that really the ONLY reason to vote, to "win?"
Yes. Why else would one bother voting?
staying home keeps someone from voting on down-ballot races and ballot initiatives and retention of judges.
I won't argue with you there. The down ballot races are just as important. Not that UA really helped the greens in this aspect, but if they were at the point of having competent local candidates his vote for Jill, combined with all the theoretical locals he would have voted for, would have mattered.
Is that really the ONLY reason to vote, to "win?"
Well, some discussion of what "win" means is probably in order, especially with respect to which game is actually being played, and what the timeframe is :-)
Modern games theory provides some excellent guidance.
Ultralight
11-10-16, 6:44am
Yes. Why else would one bother voting?
I won't argue with you there. The down ballot races are just as important. Not that UA really helped the greens in this aspect, but if they were at the point of having competent local candidates his vote for Jill, combined with all the theoretical locals he would have voted for, would have mattered.
I voted for all the greens down ballot.
Ultralight
11-10-16, 6:45am
Also: I would argue that all the liberal fear-voters have created and perpetuated the race to the bottom that led to all the corporatist sell-out Democrats like Billary.
I voted third party also, and maybe for the first time ever. I had moderate or stronger moral objections to both candidates and just couldn't bring myself to endorse either. There will never be a third party alternative if people are stuck in the two party thinking. This time around it was more of a protest vote and unfortunately no third party candidates scored much of a showing in my state.
Is anyone considering some form of protest? I am giving it some thought although it would probably be more timely once he is in office.
catherine
11-10-16, 8:15am
Is anyone considering some form of protest? I am giving it some thought although it would probably be more timely once he is in office.
Protesting what?
Protesting what?
I could maybe go on just a general issues of ethics and persona but feel confident he will be rolling back environmental policy, which is my passion. I don't know. Maybe just agitated and disappointed and don't like the helpless feeling and fishing around for ideas? I suspect a variety of causes will be getting public attention and objections once he gets going.
Ultralight
11-10-16, 8:52am
I think people should get used to life just getting progressively worse.
I think people should get used to life just getting progressively worse.
i think in many ways that's largely a matter of perception. If most of the "shrinkage" of the middle class is people moving up, should we weep for the middle class? People decry "divisiveness", when what they may actually be seeing is one half of the country refusing to defer to the other half's victim narrative. Maybe that's really a sign of health. We paint the President-Elect as a racist ogre, but he actually improved on Romney's support from people of color four years ago.
catherine
11-10-16, 9:31am
I could maybe go on just a general issues of ethics and persona but feel confident he will be rolling back environmental policy, which is my passion. I don't know. Maybe just agitated and disappointed and don't like the helpless feeling and fishing around for ideas? I suspect a variety of causes will be getting public attention and objections once he gets going.
I agree with you there. I feel a responsibility at this point to do what I can in terms of environmental activism to counterbalance the harm that's going to be done once he appoints a climate skeptic as head of the EPA, takes all regulations for emissions away, etc. That's my biggest fear with a Trump presidency backed by a Republican House and Senate. Truly a bad day for people who care about the environment.
catherine
11-10-16, 9:32am
I think people should get used to life just getting progressively worse.
That's a sure way to create a self-fulfilling prophesy. I believe in silver linings. "No mud, no lotus" as Thich Nhat Hanh says.
ApatheticNoMore
11-10-16, 10:12am
Also: I would argue that all the liberal fear-voters have created and perpetuated the race to the bottom that led to all the corporatist sell-out Democrats like Billary.
in some ways even led to Trump, although THAT has many causes and they aren't all so deserved. But when we get trade agreements that damage people, stimulus that only help them a little, healthcare that many of them can't afford etc. ... But no I don't believe those are the only reasons we have a Trump.
Is anyone considering some form of protest? I am giving it some thought although it would probably be more timely once he is in office.
yes, but of policy, protest right this instant is a bit too close to: "I wanted Hillary" for my taste. But I didn't want Hillary, it may get bad enough that Hillary looks good, that quite possible. But I didn't WANT either of them. And I think it's important to at least see that they were both bad choices. Electing Trump not good for the future in many ways, electing Hillary a sanction to banana republic levels of corruption in my view.
I think people should get used to life just getting progressively worse.
you can think that and protest as well pretty much (people really can't grasp that world view but yea, the good fight is fought for it's own sake and not because victory is right around the corner). Whether you think things will likely get worse or not has absolutely no impact on whether you protest or not. It doesn't require a Pollyanna or even an optimist. Now if you have what you believe are better TACTICS than protest to try to change things (say you plan to run for city council for instance) and you believe it's a lot more productive, then you should do that of course. But if all you can think of is: join protest or sit at home and contemplate things getting progressively worse then the latter is not better.
agree with you there. I feel a responsibility at this point to do what I can in terms of environmental activism to counterbalance the harm that's going to be done once he appoints a climate skeptic as head of the EPA, takes all regulations for emissions away, etc. That's my biggest fear with a Trump presidency backed by a Republican House and Senate. Truly a bad day for people who care about the environment.
yea mind you Hillary was pro-fracking, but Trump is horrible here.
JaneV2.0
11-10-16, 11:13am
There is always the "Sky is falling!" hair on fire contingency, and they can contribute, but in some ways, things are getting better and will continue to do so despite the robber barons and flim-flam artists among us. But it is certainly time to be vigilant and work (Bernie's movement?) for positive change wherever we can.
I have a relative who longs for a real Cascadia secession movement, but I don't think that's in the cards. Breaking up the states might be an idea whose time has come, though.
catherine
11-10-16, 11:16am
There is always the "Sky is falling!" hair on fire contingency, and they can contribute, but in some ways, things are getting better and will continue to do so despite the robber barons and flim-flam artists among us. But it is certainly time to be vigilant and work (Bernie's movement?) for positive change wherever we can.
+1
It's so nice to see the left "coming together" after the election, by blocking highways, hanging & burning the president-elect in effigy, and generally being polite.
Breaking up the states might be an idea whose time has come, though.
That happened after the 1860 election, and it didn't go so well.
http://www.270towin.com/historical_maps/1860_large.png
And it was easier then, states were divided much more along geographical lines. Today however, contrary to the red/blue state narrative sold to low-information voters, support for the different factions is much more evenly spread throughout the country, if you look at the precinct-by-precinct maps. The divide is more rural vs. urban. "Red" states have significant "blue" inholdings, and "blue" states have significant "red" populations.
So you're looking at Balkan-style ethnic cleansing.
I hope y'all enjoy how that goes.
It's so nice to see the left "coming together" after the election, by blocking highways, hanging & burning the president-elect in effigy, and generally being polite.
Hatefully hating hateful haters helps harmony.
I agree with you there. I feel a responsibility at this point to do what I can in terms of environmental activism to counterbalance the harm that's going to be done once he appoints a climate skeptic as head of the EPA, takes all regulations for emissions away, etc. That's my biggest fear with a Trump presidency backed by a Republican House and Senate. Truly a bad day for people who care about the environment.
I call people who care about the environment "breathers."
I figure everyone will care about it eventually, right?
catherine
11-10-16, 11:54am
I call people who care about the environment "breathers."
I figure everyone will care about it eventually, right?
Don't hold your breath (excuse the pun) :)
When is "eventually"? When there are no more elephants or polar bears? When there are no fish in the sea? When we have to wear gas masks to filter carcinogens? When we're eating Soylent Green?
"Eventually" for a lot of people will be only when it directly impacts their wallets or their lives. But right now a lot of people are frogs in the proverbial pot, because that "eventually" is bound to come around if we stay on our current course.
Don't hold your breath (excuse the pun) :)
When is "eventually"? When there are no more elephants or polar bears? When there are no fish in the sea? When we have to wear gas masks to filter carcinogens? When we're eating Soylent Green?
"Eventually" for a lot of people will be only when it directly impacts their wallets or their lives. But right now a lot of people are frogs in the proverbial pot, because that "eventually" is bound to come around if we stay on our current course.
Believe me, Catherine, I'm in the choir on this one! I will never give up working towards concern for the environment being seen as simple common sense, rather than as a special interest. I like to think that identifying myself as a breather rather than an environmentalist has helped me start a few conversations. :-)
catherine
11-10-16, 12:00pm
Believe me, Catherine, I'm in the choir on this one! I will never give up working towards concern for the environment being seen as simple common sense, rather than as a special interest. I like to think that identifying myself as a breather rather than an environmentalist has helped me start a few conversations. :-)
Yeah, that's probably a good tactic. "Tree-huggers" get a bad rap too often.
When is "eventually"? When there are no more elephants or polar bears? When there are no fish in the sea? When we have to wear gas masks to filter carcinogens? When we're eating Soylent Green?
I have some relatives that live in one of those states that coastal people like to mock.
They are members of some heretic Christian sect, that believes the End Times Are Coming Soon. They also believe (they've said so directly, in just about these words...) there is no need to preserve the Earth for the future, because we won't need it much longer. I think that was the last Thanksgiving I spent with them, as they were busy trying to convert me to their ways, and I think my wife shoots to well to ever fall for that "the man is the lord and master of the household" thing. Still, darned good gravy.
catherine
11-10-16, 12:03pm
I have some relatives that live in one of those states that coastal people like to mock.
They are members of some heretic Christian sect, that believes the End Times Are Coming Soon. They also believe (they've said so directly, in just about these words...) there is no need to preserve the Earth for the future, because we won't need it much longer. I think that was the last Thanksgiving I spent with them, as they were busy trying to convert me to their ways, and I think my wife shoots to well to ever fall for that "the man is the lord and master of the household" thing. Still, darned good gravy.
At least you got good gravy out of it, but that banter was probably a pretty heavy price to pay!
At least you got good gravy out of it, but that banter was probably a pretty heavy price to pay!
We were trying to be polite, but it all went sideways when they started going on about the inerrant word of The Supreme Being, and how the text was literal. And not a single one of them could read Latin, Greek, Hebrew, or in truth anything other than English. My poor poor daughter, who was only middle-school-aged, already read most of those, and started innocently asking textual questions.
I think it's good form that fundamentalists at least be able to read their own texts...
ToomuchStuff
11-10-16, 1:57pm
I had on my "Snow 2016 / Make Westeros Great Again" t-shirt when I dropped by the pub in the village last night to pick up some takeout. Someone got in my face and offered violence to me because of my abuse of cis-het-white-male-privilege in voting 3rd-party, which had cost The Annointed One her place in history.
Oddly though, I wasn't fearful...
Bad math. A vote for a third party, is not a vote for either other candidate.
catherine
11-10-16, 2:03pm
I don't know if the conspiracies in the DNC are overblown in this analysis of why Trump won, directed at Democrats/liberals, but I thought it was interesting reading, and plausible.
https://medium.com/@trentlapinski/dear-democrats-read-this-if-you-do-not-understand-why-trump-won-5a0cdb13c597#.drh60qpr8
By only following other liberals on social media, and only reading liberal or corporate news, once again ignoring reality. When Hillary Clinton was caught rigging the primary against Bernie Sanders, and Democrats nominated her anyway they ignored reality.
Everyone was simply insulating themselves within their own echo chamber ignoring anything outside their bubble.
frugal-one
11-10-16, 2:26pm
There is always the "Sky is falling!" hair on fire contingency, and they can contribute, but in some ways, things are getting better and will continue to do so despite the robber barons and flim-flam artists among us. But it is certainly time to be vigilant and work (Bernie's movement?) for positive change wherever we can.
I have a relative who longs for a real Cascadia secession movement, but I don't think that's in the cards. Breaking up the states might be an idea whose time has come, though.
CA is talking of seceding. Great... not!
ApatheticNoMore
11-10-16, 2:28pm
It won't happen.
I do tend to think this country is too big to be governable in any decent way (and we don't really have decent government afterall), but ...
CA is talking of seceding. Great... not!
The people talking secession for CA need to look at the precinct-level results....
City folks are so cute when they think they are the only people that matter. I wonder though, how much food San Francisco grows, and where their drinking water comes from?
ApatheticNoMore
11-10-16, 2:30pm
I wonder who picks the food ... hey, but we all know that, don't we. I suspect those people responsible for picking our food and thus getting our food to our tables are not how shall we say this ... Trump supporters. Then again they also can't vote.
I wonder who picks the food ... hey, but we all know that, don't we.
John picks my food.
Here's John:
http://tilthproducers.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/StewardJohnMoMAugust.jpg
iris lilies
11-10-16, 2:48pm
It won't happen.
I do tend to think this country is too big to be governable in any decent way (and we don't really have decent government afterall), but ...
yes! Which is why state governance, cutting down on federal one-size-fits-all solutions is a good directiOn for us.
catherine
11-10-16, 3:06pm
I wonder who picks the food ... hey, but we all know that, don't we.
Alec and Lauren pick my food (Finn helps).
Here's Alec and Lauren (and Finn)
1649
Teacher Terry
11-10-16, 4:40pm
I can't believe that strangers give people a hard time about who they voted for. It is none of their business. While I am personally disgusted by people that vote 3rd party it is their right to do so. My own husband did this time and I did give him a hard time:)) It saddens me that so many people could vote for someone that says such terrible things about entire groups of people. As if there is not enough prejudice in our communities that we needed someone to tell people that this is the way you act. UL: I am wondering how your university is handling this situation? Ours is telling all faculty that it is our job as social workers to help people in the community, students, etc to process their fear, grief etc without bringing politics into it. They said it was our duty as SW's to help people process this.
I can't believe that strangers give people a hard time about who they voted for. It is none of their business. While I am personally disgusted by people that vote 3rd party it is their right to do so. My own husband did this time and I did give him a hard time:)) It saddens me that so many people could vote for someone that says such terrible things about entire groups of people. As if there is not enough prejudice in our communities that we needed someone to tell people that this is the way you act. UL: I am wondering how your university is handling this situation? Ours is telling all faculty that it is our job as social workers to help people in the community, students, etc to process their fear, grief etc without bringing politics into it. They said it was our duty as SW's to help people process this.
Can you imagine your university making that same statement if Clinton had won?
I didn't vote for Trump. I don't think he has the deft touch needed to dismantle the various time bombs Mr. Obama will be leaving behind. And I have a daughter. But I still have trouble understanding this mass hysteria we're seeing now. The violent temper tantrums around the country. The sonorous preaching about fear and grief and suicide. The cancelled classes. Are we really that fragile as a people that a narrowly lost election casts so many into despondency? Can such histrionics push more people into Trump's camp, if only out of disgust?
As one writer put it "Classes being cancelled because Trump won is why Trump won." Is at least part of his victory a reaction against the cultural currents demanding safe spaces, deference to claimed victimhood and a sort of control over speech itself?
Ultralight
11-11-16, 8:50am
At OSU we got this:
"The election is complete and today we know who our country's new President will be. While some celebrate and others commiserate, we as an Ohio State community must remain resilient and strong.
Together, we must renew our commitment to listen to and learn from one another, to speak out against injustice, and to be a voice for those who have been silenced. We must speak loudly in protest against racism, homophobia, sexism, transphobia, xenophobia, and all other forms of oppression. And as we have always done, our Student Life Multicultural Center will continue to be a place of gathering, caring and support.
This morning, many of our community leaders have stepped forward to remind us that we are a strong community that has always risen to the challenges that face us, and we will continue to work together for positive change in the coming years. The Multicultural Center remains committed to working for social justice, and supporting all of our students with affirmation and positive regard.
With this in mind, we are offering space this evening, Wednesday November 9 at 6 pm, for students to come together in community to share hopes, to discuss fears, and to share in conversation with colleagues and friends.
This is invitation is centered in our hope for all of us to feel a sense of belonging and support, and to lean on our connectedness as a country and as human beings. You may find other spaces in which to do this or you may not need to do this at all. It is only an invitation.
All are welcome.
In Community,
Your Student Life Multicultural Center Family"
At OSU we got this:
"The election is complete and today we know who our country's new President will be. While some celebrate and others commiserate, we as an Ohio State community must remain resilient and strong.
Together, we must renew our commitment to listen to and learn from one another, to speak out against injustice, and to be a voice for those who have been silenced. We must speak loudly in protest against racism, homophobia, sexism, transphobia, xenophobia, and all other forms of oppression. And as we have always done, our Student Life Multicultural Center will continue to be a place of gathering, caring and support.
This morning, many of our community leaders have stepped forward to remind us that we are a strong community that has always risen to the challenges that face us, and we will continue to work together for positive change in the coming years. The Multicultural Center remains committed to working for social justice, and supporting all of our students with affirmation and positive regard.
With this in mind, we are offering space this evening, Wednesday November 9 at 6 pm, for students to come together in community to share hopes, to discuss fears, and to share in conversation with colleagues and friends.
This is invitation is centered in our hope for all of us to feel a sense of belonging and support, and to lean on our connectedness as a country and as human beings. You may find other spaces in which to do this or you may not need to do this at all. It is only an invitation.
All are welcome.
In Community,
Your Student Life Multicultural Center Family"
It's been awhile, but I remember getting through school without feeling much need for university bureaucrats to look after my spiritual and psychological well-being. They mainly focused on public drunkenness.
The violent temper tantrums around the country. The sonorous preaching about fear and grief and suicide. The cancelled classes. Are we really that fragile as a people that a narrowly lost election casts so many into despondency? Can such histrionics push more people into Trump's camp, if only out of disgust?
I know people in the groups that are scared, maybe it won't last forever and we will get our footing again, but they are not making this up. I am posting suicide hotline numbers for the community of LGBTQ people, they suicide rate has been steadily climbing the last year and the call volume exploded this week. Even at the school I work at we have students now telling people they will be deported, elementary kids in a dominant hispanic neighborhood. This is actually happening, the protests are coming FROM that, not causing it.
Ultralight
11-11-16, 9:21am
Teacher Terry:
You might also find this interesting.
My class on Wednesday night was supposed to be group project presentations. But the professor said that she was told by colleagues and administrators that students could not focus because of the Trump election. So she, and many other profs in Social Work (maybe other fields too?) decided to essentially cancel class but turn it into group therapy. The prof handed out a poem (by Maya Angelou), but since she is a white lady she said she did not want to read it because that would be cultural appropriation; she asked for a volunteer to read it. So a young black woman volunteered. It was obviously a good poem. Angelou was a great talent.
But the prof also brought colored markers and paper so people could draw their feelings. We also sat in a circle to discuss and process our feelings about Trump being elected. Several black women said they are afraid now for their physical safety because of white supremacists. Another woman said she saw a woman in a hijab on her way to class and was worried she could be attacked or oppressed because of Trump's election.
A black woman said she was having a hard time not being angry at all white people. She also brought up the term "white-lashing."
A guy in the class said he worried about his immigrant friends and people of color friends whom he could not protect now because Trump was elected.
I said I saw this whole thing coming because I am out there in "The Real America" sometimes (in my hometown or when fishing). And I said I thought more than anything this was the workin' man's revenge and that when the workin' man lashes out he is rarely rational.
Several people cried and/or wept during this discussion. Everyone was somber.
I suggested that we need to think about how we can reach out to the workin' man -- the laid-off factory worker, the construction worker sitting at the hiring hall waiting for a few hours of work -- and build a bond with him because he is our socio-economic ally, even if he (and we) don't really know it yet.
I don't think this suggestion went over well. Someone said something like: "I don't have much compassion for the workin' man when someone else could be oppressed or deported."
Thoughts?
Ultralight
11-11-16, 9:23am
I know people in the groups that are scared, maybe it won't last forever and we will get our footing again, but they are not making this up. I am posting suicide hotline numbers for the community of LGBTQ people, they suicide rate has been steadily climbing the last year and the call volume exploded this week. Even at the school I work at we have students now telling people they will be deported, elementary kids in a dominant hispanic neighborhood. This is actually happening, the protests are coming FROM that, not causing it.
I am actually doing a project for a class on suicide right now. Here are some stats:
-Groups that are particularly at risk for ideation and attempt are male, white, and under the age of 21.
-Whites have the highest rate of suicide (84 percent of all suicides).
-Whites are 2.4 times more likely to commit suicide than African Americans.
-Males are 80 percent of suicides, females 20 percent.
(All above according to: http://www.emorycaresforyou.emory.edu/resources/suicidestatistics.html)
I know people in the groups that are scared, maybe it won't last forever and we will get our footing again, but they are not making this up. I am posting suicide hotline numbers for the community of LGBTQ people, they suicide rate has been steadily climbing the last year and the call volume exploded this week. Even at the school I work at we have students now telling people they will be deported, elementary kids in a dominant hispanic neighborhood. This is actually happening, the protests are coming FROM that, not causing it.
I'm not saying at least some of it isn't real. I'm saying it's sad that there seem to be so many people so ill-equipped to deal with the frustrations of life that a single close election can drive them over the edge into violence or mental instability. Sadder still are the people who seem eager to capitalize on a victim mentality for political reasons.
This country has survived worse than the likes of Donald J Trump. But not by dissolving into a quivering mass.
catherine
11-11-16, 9:31am
I am actually doing a project for a class on suicide right now. Here are some stats:
-Groups that are particularly at risk for ideation and attempt are male, white, and under the age of 21.
-Whites have the highest rate of suicide (84 percent of all suicides).
-Whites are 2.4 times more likely to commit suicide than African Americans.
-Males are 80 percent of suicides, females 20 percent.
(All above according to: http://www.emorycaresforyou.emory.edu/resources/suicidestatistics.html)
Why?
Ultralight
11-11-16, 9:37am
Why?
Why I am doing an assignment on this? It is about mental health on college campuses. We got to choose from a list at the start of class. Seemed interesting.
Ultralight
11-11-16, 9:38am
This country has survived worse than the likes of Donald J Trump. But not by dissolving into a quivering mass.
Dude. People do not like to be told to toughen up. I have tried to tell my fellow liberals that we need to be tough, grizzled, and thick-skinned if we want to make the world a better place. It usually is a road to nowhere.
If someone is so distraught at whoever got elected that they are contemplating suicide, I'd say that's a big sign they need to seek help.
I wasn't happy Obama was elected twice. Did I hide in bed for days, contemplate suicide, need to seek counseling? No. I'm not belittling those with actual real mental health issues, but this mass hysteria and inability to cope is disturbing. How do these folks cope with criticism from a boss or teacher? How do they cope with the disappointments of life? This mindset is absolutely foreign to me. Just suck it up and get on with life. Work to change the system, but I'm of the opinion protesting and doing nothing else is ineffective.
No. I'm not belittling those with actual real mental health issues, but this mass hysteria and inability to cope is disturbing. How do these folks cope with criticism from a boss or teacher? How do they cope with the disappointments of life? This mindset is absolutely foreign to me. Just suck it up and get on with life. Work to change the system, but I'm of the opinion protesting and doing nothing else is ineffective.
Maybe we should have awarded Hillary a participation trophy.
Teacher Terry
11-11-16, 1:34pm
UL: I think your suggestion to reach out to the working men/women was a good one. Right now they are just too angry at them. Of course they will probably be the ones to suffer the most under a Trump presidency. I grew up blue collar and still have some BC friends in WI but none of them voted for Trump. Since getting educated and moving my circle of friends now are mostly professionals and many in my same field so I know that limits what I know about people. Although, when I was working with clients most of them were BC workers. Now I work for the university so I know that is such a totally different environment. Ldahl: the university would not have to put out a statement if Clinton had won because she was not encouraging discrimination and hate against entire groups of people. I have been disappointed in the past on elections but if you fail to see why so many people are so upset it is because they don't want to hate entire groups of people and persecute them for no reason. Many see Trump as unstable and worry about relations with other countries and if he will start a nuclear war, etc. WE have never had a president before that people are actually afraid of. That is the difference.
Ultralight
11-11-16, 1:37pm
If someone is so distraught at whoever got elected that they are contemplating suicide, I'd say that's a big sign they need to seek help.
I wasn't happy Obama was elected twice. Did I hide in bed for days, contemplate suicide, need to seek counseling? No. I'm not belittling those with actual real mental health issues, but this mass hysteria and inability to cope is disturbing. How do these folks cope with criticism from a boss or teacher? How do they cope with the disappointments of life? This mindset is absolutely foreign to me. Just suck it up and get on with life. Work to change the system, but I'm of the opinion protesting and doing nothing else is ineffective.
I am sad to say most liberals I know lack a fightin' spirit.
Teacher Terry
11-11-16, 1:45pm
There are petitions circulating for people to sign to rid us of the electoral college. I see this as action.
There are petitions circulating for people to sign to rid us of the electoral college. I see this as action.
How many of the low-information-voters signing those petitions have read the Federalist/Anti-Federalist papers?
Ldahl: the university would not have to put out a statement if Clinton had won because she was not encouraging discrimination and hate against entire groups of people.
Yes. Only baskets of irredeemable deplorables would categorize groups of people like that.
Maybe we should have awarded Hillary a participation trophy.
I think Goldman Sachs has that covered.
Zoe Girl
11-11-16, 11:16pm
If someone is so distraught at whoever got elected that they are contemplating suicide, I'd say that's a big sign they need to seek help.
The specific population I am concerned about is our trans-youth. They already have a very high risk of suicide. My friend who is a trans-man is studying to be a counselor however when he recently needed some help he had difficulty finding a knowledgable counselor, and that is in a really liberal city. Mental health services can be difficult to access for people who are already having difficulties with life.
Zoe Girl
11-11-16, 11:19pm
Dude. People do not like to be told to toughen up. I have tried to tell my fellow liberals that we need to be tough, grizzled, and thick-skinned if we want to make the world a better place. It usually is a road to nowhere.
Sometimes I am not the most popular liberal because I think I am kick-a** tough. I am not interested in spending too much time wringing my hands because I might not be perfectly right, and I am more likely to write and protest than cry.
The specific population I am concerned about is our trans-youth. They already have a very high risk of suicide. My friend who is a trans-man is studying to be a counselor however when he recently needed some help he had difficulty finding a knowledgable counselor, and that is in a really liberal city. Mental health services can be difficult to access for people who are already having difficulties with life.
Trump has actually said very little about LGBT issues that I recall. He's actually seems to be friendlier to their cause than many in the GOP.
I have a coworker who said on Monday she was waiting after the election to apply for citizenship as she was afraid of what Trump would do. Mind you, she's Asian, educated, married to another Asian who is a medical professional. They are both here legally. I had to point this out to her. I asked her if she was an illegal Mexican immigrant with a criminal record. She said no, and admitted she was being paranoid.
ApatheticNoMore
11-12-16, 1:13am
Many see Trump as unstable and worry about relations with other countries and if he will start a nuclear war, etc. WE have never had a president before that people are actually afraid of. That is the difference.
many people were afraid of the same thing about Hillary, that she would lead to a nuclear war. I was not among them, I mean she may be hawkish, but I don't think she's crazy.
But she kept making noises about Russia all the time, scaring some people that she would start a conflict with a nuclear power (maybe they actually lived through the cold war and they had duck and cover flashbacks, I don't know).
Again I never really thought that was much of a threat - I think the world will end from climate change and probably not nukes, though you never can be sure :~).
But why did she keep doing that, just to distract from Wikileaks, what a horrible campaign strategy. Probably more optics than actual threat, but dangerous optics that probably backfired by scaring some people (I don't think they are right, but in their defense the world has almost inadvertently been brought to the brink of nuclear war a few times, so it's nothing to take lightly). If she could have kept her mouth shut about Russia at least she might have seemed to everyone a safer choice on the nuclear war front if nothing else being that Trump is temperamentally unstable, but no she couldn't and so right or wrong she scared people.
Trump has actually said very little about LGBT issues that I recall. He's actually seems to be friendlier to their cause than many in the GOP.
Pence on the other hand has said quite a bit. And I don't expect he's going to be one of those vice-presidents that just sits on the sidelines.
Pence on the other hand has said quite a bit. And I don't expect he's going to be one of those vice-presidents that just sits on the sidelines.
Pence scares me more than President-elect Squeezy McFeelpants does, and that says quite a lot.
rosarugosa
11-12-16, 8:55am
Totally agree that Pence makes my skin crawl in a way Trump does not. I find myself in the position of hoping that Donald takes good care of himself for the next 4 years.
Dude. People do not like to be told to toughen up. I have tried to tell my fellow liberals that we need to be tough, grizzled, and thick-skinned if we want to make the world a better place. It usually is a road to nowhere.
I think there a couple of things going on with the many claims of emotional devastation.
One is that as we move (at least some of us) more toward a "victimhood culture" (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/09/the-rise-of-victimhood-culture/404794/), claiming terrible upset is in fact a form of power-seeking. If I can convince you I have been wronged and you therefore owe me something, I have a measure of power over you.
Another factor is the ongoing movement toward a "therapeutic culture". As more traditional belief and support systems decline, more and more people turn toward credentialed experts to help them "process" the normal knocks and disappointments of life. Those credentialed experts have a strong interest in making any big event a situation that requires their services.
Teacher Terry
11-12-16, 2:53pm
Another factor is the ongoing movement toward a "therapeutic culture". As more traditional belief and support systems decline, more and more people turn toward credentialed experts to help them "process" the normal knocks and disappointments of life. Those credentialed experts have a strong interest in making any big event a situation that requires their services.
MH professionals have plenty of clients without having to cause a scare to obtain more. That is one of the silliest things i have heard yet.
iris lilies
11-12-16, 4:02pm
Another factor is the ongoing movement toward a "therapeutic culture". As more traditional belief and support systems decline, more and more people turn toward credentialed experts to help them "process" the normal knocks and disappointments of life. Those credentialed experts have a strong interest in making any big event a situation that requires their services.
MH professionals have plenty of clients without having to cause a scare to obtain more. That is one of the silliest things i have heard yet.
I dunno, seems like lots and lots of women around here have decided to take up therapy as a carreer. I am skeptical that there are enough clients paying full fees to go around. If everyone has enough clients, who is this peddler appealing to?
http://www.beawealthytherapist.net/more-therapy-clients/
But she kept making noises about Russia all the time, scaring some people that she would start a conflict with a nuclear power (maybe they actually lived through the cold war and they had duck and cover flashbacks, I don't know).
I was certainly concerned, with the needless sabre-rattling she was throwing out there, and the McCarthyist smears.
And I did live through the Cold War, barely. Even watched "Duck and Cover" in school. My dad was on a nuclear sub during the Cuban Missile crisis. I was born about 9 months later. We used to have a bomb shelter out back of the house.
One of my local patients survived one of our Japanese a-bomb drops.
And I have a piece of the Berlin Wall sitting here on a shelf by my desk. A good friend of mine clawed it out himself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKqXu-5jw60
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHylQRVN2Qs
We had those drills where you hid under the desk. I remember in the Cuban Missile crisis, hiding in the laundry room on top of the water heater (that was my safe place, rest of family off drinking martinis somewhere) and expecting we were all going to be blown up at any moment. Remember walking home from school looking for the bright light in the sky that meant we were supposed to dive into the sewer drains (that was really gonna work.) I also remember Nikita Khrushchev telling us that "We will bury you," and figuring he meant all of us, even me.
catherine
11-12-16, 8:34pm
We had those drills where you hid under the desk. I remember in the Cuban Missile crisis, hiding in the laundry room on top of the water heater (that was my safe place, rest of family off drinking martinis somewhere) and expecting we were all going to be blown up at any moment. Remember walking home from school looking for the bright light in the sky that meant we were supposed to dive into the sewer drains (that was really gonna work.) I also remember Nikita Khrushchev telling us that "We will bury you," and figuring he meant all of us, even me.
I, too, remember walking to school looking up at every plane that passed overhead with some fear (in 1963 I was 11). I remember the fallout shelter symbols being posted everywhere. "Nuclear" was a very scary word, no doubt about it.
ApatheticNoMore
11-13-16, 12:49am
I think there a couple of things going on with the many claims of emotional devastation.
One is that as we move (at least some of us) more toward a "victimhood culture" (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...ulture/404794/), claiming terrible upset is in fact a form of power-seeking. If I can convince you I have been wronged and you therefore owe me something, I have a measure of power over you.
Really I suspect some people just have super feeling natures and it's just the way they are wired. So it's not necessarily a plan or a conspiracy, just the way they are. I'm rather glad my boyfriend is more feeling than me, because a sensitive guy actually kinds of balances out a cold hard-ass of a woman. :~) Yes people could use it to gain power but that would be obvious, and just super feeling by nature doesn't look the same way manipulation does, it's obvious the difference.
Another factor is the ongoing movement toward a "therapeutic culture". As more traditional belief and support systems decline, more and more people turn toward credentialed experts to help them "process" the normal knocks and disappointments of life. Those credentialed experts have a strong interest in making any big event a situation that requires their services.
I don't really find that to be true. But I used to think therapists were rolling in the dough (charge so much barely work any hours etc.), but it seems it's often a really hard way to bring in enough money to live on. Yes I've heard of therapists with day jobs (I don't know if they are good therapists) in other things to pay the rent. Therapists who commute to two different places just to earn enough (say working in southern california AND northern california, or I've even heard of california and new york). I've heard of being a therapist being a woman's job and only possible if her spouse brings in the real money etc.. And most of them seem to have to hustle a lot for clients. So I don't know. I'm not sure it's actually all that easy even financially afterall.
Yeah, I really doubt "those credential experts have a strong interest in making a big event a situation that requires their services.
No one, absolutely no one, wants a slew of suicidal clients.
Really I suspect some people just have super feeling natures and it's just the way they are wired. So it's not necessarily a plan or a conspiracy, just the way they are. I'm rather glad my boyfriend is more feeling than me, because a sensitive guy actually kinds of balances out a cold hard-ass of a woman. :~) Yes people could use it to gain power but that would be obvious, and just super feeling by nature doesn't look the same way manipulation does, it's obvious the difference.
.
Thank you, I am a super sensitive person. I didn't ask to be this way, and often it is pretty painful. However we need this to balance out some of the cold hard people. I have taken a lot of risks to express my sensitivity here and other places. I don't need much, my appreciation for kind gestures is huge! And thank you Tybee, I am sure many counselors are working overtime to help their clients. Being truly suicidal is NOT a manipulative move.
Teacher Terry
11-13-16, 5:13pm
Many therapists end up working in government jobs because then they don't need malpractice insurance, etc since the state will cover it. Also overhead can be high in private practice. NOw private practice therapists may be competing for clients but not in the public sector. There will be more clients then you can handle.
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