Square foot gardening anyone?

[Rogar]

A few weeks ago I got the book on square foot gardening by Bartholomew and have starting accumulating some of the materials to put the frame together. I have the instructions and information from the book, but really don't know anyone who has tried it. Before I get everything in place and going, I was wondering if any have used the system and might have suggestions. Hints? Successes? Failures?

[Kat]

This is something that I am looking into for next summer. I talked to my dad about it; he knows a lot about gardening since his father owned a greenhouse for many years. He suggested a frame of no more than 4 foot deep (built with untreated wood), lined with cardboard on the bottom to help keep out the weeds. The soil inside the frame should be 1/3 peat moss, 1/3 vermiculite, and 1/3 compost (there is a name for this mix, given for the man who came up with it--but I can't remember what it is!). You will also need to know how many plants you can fit in each space. You could get up to 16 smaller plants, like carrots, onions, and radishes per square. Bigger plants, like peppers, might only fit one to a square. I found this website helpful in terms of a spacing plan:

http://www.essene.com/Vegetarian/PlantSpacingsInASquareFootGarden.htm

When you are planning, be sure to consider the harvest (just like in a regular garden). You might want to stagger your planting time or plan to plant something else in empty squares after early plants are harvested.

[Rogar]

Kat, for what it is worth, the book suggests using 4 foot frames max, but only 6 inches deep. Assuming it works, that's a decent savings in wood and soil ingredients. He uses 2"x6"s, 8 feet long and cut in half for the frame. His soil mix is the same as yours. The book has some good suggestions on how many plants for each square. He has some pretty cool and inexpensive ideas for turning it into a little greenhouse to extend the growing season, but I'm starting with the basics.

[Kat]

Thanks, Rogar! That is what I meant to save above. Should have said "wide" instead of "deep." Reading it now, I can see that it sounds like a 4 foot high wall built around the whole thing. LOL Not a good idea (and boy would that ever be expensive to fill!) ;-)

Keep us updated if you decide to move forward with it. I'd be interested to learn more!

[kib]

I started out with SFG because it seemed so precise and clear. I'm still convinced that raised beds are the way to go, but two things:

In the desert, the magic soil mix of peat, vermiculite and compost (at least the compost commercially available that I used) is too light and fluffy - it dries out and blows away.

Honestly, all those gridded lattice lines are a rather anal pain in the rump. They look very pretty but what a waste of wood, and also make it difficult to get in and work the soil or harvest leafy veggies if you like to pick your leaves one at a time. Reseeding in the middle of the season is an enormous pain - you've got half your stuff growing up through the lattice so you can't really take it off just to add new seeds so you have to fiddle around. Personally, I'd just eyeball it or buy some pretty colored string and nails and make a grid with that.

(When I saw an interview with MB and he said something to the effect that he doesn't protect his beds because he's strategically planted them where he can watch them all day, the whackadoodle factor snapped me upright: no more of these silly lattices, this man is insane!)

[Kat]

I was wondering about the wooden grids, kib. I think I will go with string when I try it next year!

[Float On]

I don't like the square. Still too hard to reach into the middle of the thing. And his are too shallow.
I got 12' boards at Lowes and had them cut 3' off the ends. So my beds are 9x3. Perfect. I'm going to do a couple of 10x2 this year for new berry bush plantings.

[KayLR]

We built them several seasons ago, and we like them. Especially I do, as I am short-limbed! The mix works well here in the Pac NW. He calls it "Mel's Mix" in the book, I believe. I don't use the lattice things either. I've been pretty successful just making marks with my trowel and row markers. Keepin' it simple here!

[janharker]

I have an 8'x4'. I like it. I recommend that you lay something down on the bottom to keep out moles/voles/snakes. Something with tiny holes, like window screen. I wish I had done that. I wish it enough that I might pull out my dirt and put something there. Next year, as I've already started planting for this year.

[Rogar]

You know, I was actually wondering while I was reading if string would be as good or better than his lattice board squares. That's good to get some feedback on. I've alread bought 2X8s but nothing else yet. I guess I can cut them to make different dimentions if I want. We don't have many moles or voles here and I was just thinking on laying down a weed barrier on top of the grass.

[chord_ata]

String does age in the sun and break, but I keep using it anyway.

I pretty much follow the SFG text verbatum, as lazily as I can. I don't spend a lot of time on amending soil. You may find yourself altering seed starting dates. Also fall season plantings don't do very well with me (too many young rodents for the few successful starts).

[The Storyteller]

SFG is just a variation of intensive gardening that has been practiced in various parts of the world for over 4,000 years, most notably in China and most recently in France. I agree with those who say 6 inches is just too shallow, and with kib that the soil mix is way too light for any area with any kind of heat. I'm sure his system is ideal for the northeast where he is from, but you will need to tweak it for your area.

I like intensive gardening, but prefer to borrow mostly from the Grow Biointensvie method. Even then, I have changed it to fit my own needs.

[razz]

SFG works quite well but the untreated boards do rot out. I placed the frames over regular soil and then filled with a homemade Mel's mix of compost, peat and vermiculite. They do take a lot of watering, I found, more so than regular soil.

My efforts were part of a personal research on the different types of intensive gardening and I am now going back to regular rows close together for a few crops like beans and leeks. Tomatoes will be in pots.

I can buy so many vegetable crops in large amounts in season for such a modest cost from local farmers so am choosing to focus on the flowerbeds which need a lot of catch-up, cleanup this year. I find that my energy level is not a much as needed and the weeds (foxtail took over) last year needs to be eradicated from the veggie garden this year with tilling and summer fallowing.

[Rogar]

Thanks for the suggestons. I guess I'll think things through one final time before putting everything together. I live in a dry climate and travel a few days at a time so wonder if things will dry out too much? I suppose some mulching on top might keep the soul mix from blowing away? I can get tree mulch from our city for free.

[kib]

This is probably not "by the book" at all, but I've found that a little bit of (non-clumping) cat litter makes a good addition of clay/moisture holder to add a little weight. And, (again, probably a big no-no) used cat litter means cat pee which means nitrogen. I always throw a bit in, for good luck and maybe even rabbit deterent if nothing else. The compost I used had almost the same consistency as fine mulch :( I swear, nothing that comes in a plastic bag is worth its weight any more. But yes,mulch would probably help hold the soil down once the seedlings are up or starts are in. There's a commercial product Brian mentioned once that you can also add that helps hold in water... ??)

(and yes, 2*4's are way too shallow. I used 2*6's and then doubled them up the second year. I now have a rotating composting system of five of these beds, I guess they're each 8' long 30" wide and 11" high) Seems to be working really well ... the deer love it. Sigh.

[razz]

Pet waste scan be deadly to use!
http://www.extension.umn.edu/yardandgarden/ygbriefs/h238manure-dog-cat.html

[kib]

Yep. Ymmv. In all honesty, I didn't find much in that article to worry me about using cat litter with a little urine in it - the "cat manure" goes out back under the pine trees and the nitrogen content of the urine in the litter is locked up for a bit which is a good thing. And I have no plan to have kids. But again, you're right in that it's not an accepted practice and potentially carries a risk.

[puglogic]

SFG is just a variation of intensive gardening that has been practiced in various parts of the world for over 4,000 years, most notably in China and most recently in France. I agree with those who say 6 inches is just too shallow, and with kib that the soil mix is way too light for any area with any kind of heat. I'm sure his system is ideal for the northeast where he is from, but you will need to tweak it for your area.

I like intensive gardening, but prefer to borrow mostly from the Grow Biointensvie method. Even then, I have changed it to fit my own needs.

Ditto here. I follow John Jeavons' method in How To Grow More Vegetables. I double-dig every other year, plant intensively based on growth/depth, mulch like crazy. I've always liked the thought of SFG though, and plan to do it some day as a supplement. I would definitely make it at least 12" tall here - a friend does 18" and her garden is amazingly prolific.

[Gina]

I follow John Jeavons' method in How To Grow More Vegetables.
Same here, sort of. I double dug one bed once, and never again. Too much work for me - I'll accept lower productivity. I think square foot is a good place to begin, but I prefer my sideless beds. I know there are reasons some people have to use them, but for my garden and soil type, they create far more problems than they solve.

For my dry area, the big three are: compost, mulch and more mulch (with soaker hoses beneath). My garden soil was mostly silt so I added about 10% clay to it - much better for the earthworms to be able to form a nice crumb structure, as well as being able to retain more water.

[flowerseverywhere]

here in the northeast SFG works well. but we get lots of rain and not too much really hot weather. I find it easy to weed. My beds are 6" deep on top of soil which has a lot of clay but I have had no problems. It helps that they are full of worms. My compost bin is like a worm high rise. I use homemade Mel's mix and get good yields. I also have some areas that I put potatoes and other root crops the traditional way.

Now only if the rain could stop long enough to be able to let the gardens dry out enough to clean them out.

ps. Storyteller the forged books looks fascinating. now on hold at my library.

[chord_ata]

For multi-day trips install some sort of irrigation system. Ours is a network of soaker and conduit hoses linked to one faucet with a battery operated timer. We have it set to run between 15-30 minutes every day.

[Rogar]

OK. Just wanted to say thanks for all the suggestions. I put the frame together and have now collected all of the soil mix, so it's a go. Everything ended costing about $50 or $60 for one frame and I did go with 8" tall boards instead of 6". The vermiculite is very expensive. We'll see how it goes. My beginner impression is that once you get going it could be easier than a sideless gardening method due to little weeding and future soil preparation and work. Plus the inexpensive little greenhouse setups he has are interesting and could give me some early and late spinach or lettuce. I have a small traditional garden that doesn't get a lot of sun. If the frame is a total blowout I will transfer the soil there and into pots and reuse the wood, possibly in my woodstove, so not a total blowout.