View Full Version : Black Sheep?
So, I'm the black sheep.
My parents and sister are republican, catholic, big-and-high-design house, lots-of-stuff, our-love-language-is-objects people. My husband and I are austere, living in your means (which is really super-frugal), life is for experiences not objects, liberals (non-affiliated with political parties).
Seeing as I live on the other side of the planet, it's not often a problem. But sometimes I'm bothered by things.
I can't explain it easily, but when my cousin had her son last weekend, he was 9 lbs and 13 oz. I shared this with my parents because I got the news (via facebook) before they did (I was working at the time; we're a day ahead!). My mother then said "Oh, Ben (my nephew) would have been that big. He was two weeks early and 7 lbs and 13 oz!" And it was said in this rather funny, nearly competitive way.
When Ben was born, everyone was carrying on about how big he was, but my son was actually larger at birth (both in length and in weight). They were carrying on about how hard the labor was because he was *so big* and she had to have an epidural (i think because she was laboring on her back, which hurts, and she has back trouble anyway, which hurts more, and so it's a good idea to get one). Ironically, Hawk was posterior, which is supposed to be the most painful way to labor. Because I birthed unassisted, I got to choose my own body's positions and needs, and had a pain-free labor and birth.
I'm not in competition with my sister, but it was this very weird behavior. The tone is like "Your sister and her baby are better than you and your baby. They are also better than your cousin and her baby." (Oddly, I just realized, we've all had boys!).
Anyway, it's not just about this baby stuff either. That is a whole other story, of course, but we're really happy with our minimalist lives. My mother cannot get it at all. She doesn't get why we live in a one-bedroom place. She gets the frugality while we get settled, but doesn't see it as a proper long term strategy.
My parents have always said they'd rather commute longer to have a bigger, fancier house. Sometimes, that commute was over 2 hrs *one way* to have the house they wanted. A house that was huge, expensive, beautifully decorated, but for what? hardly ever there to enjoy it!
We are looking to move into a cute beach cottage. I'm psyched. I love the view and the location and the neighborhood and the size. a little yard for the kiddo and some raised beds for herbs and veg. 3 small bedrooms -- one for an office (DH works from home), one for our bedroom, and one for the kid as he gets older. eat-in kitchen and little lounge -- really perfect little space.
My mother has nothing but criticisms, and she hasn't seen it even! Criticisms like "you have to get him a proper bed!" which to her means expensive and what not. And "you need to have enough dishes for entertaining!" (my mother has 7 sets of china service for 8, but never entertains!) and so on and so forth!
And, they are *always* trying to buy it for me. My love language is experience. If i ask them to buy for me -- something like "pay for cello lessons" or whatever, they're not interested.
And then my sister swoops in and goes "well, if she doesn't want X, i'll be happy to have you by Y for me." and then they do. And then she gloats about it.
Seriously, the piece d'resistance for me? That my sister and her husband are always broke, which is why they can't travel, visit me, etc. My sister earns -- currently -- 4 times what I earn. Her husband earns 3 times what I own. They live in a city that costs 1/3 what ours costs.
where does her money go? seriously? They pay less in their mortgage than we pay in rent. My parents buy nearly everything for them. Where is their money?
They chastise me about spending money on travel -- how frivolous it is -- but my sister has a full nursery, a fancy crib by her bed in her room, another in the den, and another in her office. She has two pack-in-plays for the dining room and living room, which are right next to each other. He has several bouncy seats in different rooms too. I mean, the kid has enough furniture for 8 kids. LOL
This is so that she doesn't have to move things around, you know how her back is! particularly after the baby, after the epidural! GOOD LORD!
Anyway, is anyone else the austere, spartan black sheep of the family? How do you deal?
I mostly rant and eye roll.
Sounds like you really needed to get that off your chest. Feel better? It's seriously hard to be different, especially within your family. That is my greatest challenge. As I pare down, they find things to pass on to me or give piles of crap to my kids. When I protest, they take it as rejection of themselves. In some ways, I envy your distance! So many people just don't subscribe to the idea of less. They just don't understand the concept. The only thing I can do is show them how happy I am with my life. On the other hand, your mom and sister might envy your freedom and the courage it took for you to pursue your dreams. In a way, maybe they are trying to convince themselves as much as you. Maybe it's not criticism of you so much as self affirmation for themselves. And maybe that's a bunch of BS ;). IDK, you can't let it get you down. Hang around here, we get it!
flowerseverywhere
4-28-11, 7:10am
If you are not geographically close why do you tell them so much? You can still be kind and caring but disclose as little as possible. I find most people really only want to talk about themselves so can you try to redirect the question or answer vaguely? give as little info as possible. Bring up subjects like the Royal wedding, or what birds are in your yard, or some flowers you saw on a walk. Things that make no difference to your relationship and they can't criticize you for.
What is the chance they are going to change? Pretty slim I imagine? But you can change what you tell them and how you react. Your only other choice is to tell them how hurtful they are. That would not have worked for me, they would have told me I was sensitive etc.
From another black sheep.
Hugs Zoebird. I say keep living your life to please you (and your husband/kids) and to heck with everyone else. Minimalism, scaled-back, simple, frugal, easy-going, uncomplicated, reduced living is what we're all about here, and you make such a nice addition to that. :)
I think the way I "solved" it was to scare my parents (my Mom really, Dad isn't a worrier) and I started to get closer to my sibblings. One thing I realized as it all shook out was that I was, and can still be, a big approval/acceptance seeker. I started trying to give them what I wanted for myself which is to be respected and honored for the person I am. This helped me with my own internalized sense of self acceptance. For me, I had to completely let go of the idea that it was ever going to be like I wanted it to be with them. This stuff is so hard!
ETA: By "scare" I mean I told them flat out that they were important to me and that I loved them but when they continuously nit-picked at the details of my life and passed judgement on me - all that did was rile my fight or flight response and since I didn't want to fight them I might just fade out of their lives (I was really good about reassuring them that I did not want to do this).
treehugger
4-28-11, 12:08pm
Black sheep, checking in. I have four parents and I will never win the approval/affection/attention/pride that each of my six siblings has. And most days, that's OK. But I admit it gets me down sometimes. Best just to try not to think about it. It helps that I am not geographically close to anyone in my immediate family. Sure, I miss them sometimes, but it keeps the outsider feelings at bay.
Kara
I used to feel like the black sheep. Some things that have helped me are
1)Realizing that all people are flawed. I am flawed. My husband is flawed. My parents are flawed. My sister is flawed. Similar to Matt, a couple of years ago I told my parents, "I'm not perfect and I never will be. If you want to focus on what I do poorly, there will always be something you can find. The same is true in reverse. I can always find things to complain about with you if I really want to and I apologize that I frequently do. Let's work on encouraging each other instead." It's a work in progress on all sides.
2)Realizing that I frequently hear criticisms where none are meant, or blow things out of proportion. Frequently my parents are really expressing concern out of love, not because they don't think I'm good enough.
Here's a good example. I have had struggles with breastfeeding with my last three kids. Mom was one of those LaLeche League people when I was born and it was hard for her that I wasn't able to make it work. This time breastfeeding has been going quite well. When Travis ended up in the hospital, a circumstance that stopped me from being able to breastfeed my last kid, my dad was freaking out a bit that it might happen again. At first I was indignant. He doesn't understand. He thinks I'm doing something wrong. How dare he be so involved in something that isn't his business. Then a few days later he said something in passing. "I was reading an article last week about how breastfeeding reduces your risk of breast cancer." Half an hour later he was talking about my uncle who just passed away. "His mom is devastated. No one should have to bury their child. Ever." Suddenly a lightbulb went off. He almost lost my little sister to breast cancer. He's worried about me. He wants breastfeeding to work for me because he sees it as a protection for his daughter against something he fears. His worry is probably excessive, but it's definitely out of love. That is just so much easier to understand.
3)No longer seeking approval from flawed human beings. I try to live a virtuous life, but recognize that sometimes I fall down. I get back up and try again. That's all I can do. People's judgements against me are usually based on their own issues, not mine.
I'm coming to realize just how much of life involves viewing our perception of reality in a greater context. I can only clearly (and sometimes not even then) see what I feel and what I experience and, like most people, I frequently process things as though that is the be all and end all of reality. When I realize that other people are doing the same thing it helps me to be less reactive when circumstances beyond my field of vision start closing in on me and causing conflict. That's just been my experience. YMMV.
ApatheticNoMore
4-28-11, 1:44pm
I can't explain it easily, but when my cousin had her son last weekend, he was 9 lbs and 13 oz. I shared this with my parents because I got the news (via facebook) before they did (I was working at the time; we're a day ahead!). My mother then said "Oh, Ben (my nephew) would have been that big. He was two weeks early and 7 lbs and 13 oz!" And it was said in this rather funny, nearly competitive way.
When babies get too big (hard to say exactly what too big is, I'm not a doctor) it usually indicates certain problems like a mother with gestational diabetes or an overweight mother. It's really not something to be aimed for (probably will be shown to be another factor in a person becoming overweight later in life too). But really as long as the baby is healthy I guess, and you go from there. But the point is bigger isn't always better :)
My parents have always said they'd rather commute longer to have a bigger, fancier house. Sometimes, that commute was over 2 hrs *one way* to have the house they wanted. A house that was huge, expensive, beautifully decorated, but for what? hardly ever there to enjoy it!
oh gosh long commutes are something I dread. Hard to avoid too, but how much I want to avoid it (I hate moving all the time too, but .... guess it's the lesser of evils).
Why do you burden yourself with what they think?
Why do you burden yourself with what they think?
Wondering that too, though I understand.
I used to stigmatize myself with the "black sheep" label. Then I saw a black sheep for the first time (in NZ): Beautiful, gorgeous creature.
My family hasn't understood me for a long time. But it no longer matters - I love my life and their opinion no longer matters.
Consider just letting go of all this family politics. Take what's good for you, and turn your back on the rest & walk away whistling.
Hang in there!
"I started trying to give them what I wanted for myself which is to be respected and honored for the person I am."
This bit, from mattj, I think THIS is the key. What a lovely and loving way to approach family members whose values differ from our own. No need to be defensive; we all get to have make our own choices. But if we don't want to be criticized by other family members, we better not be doing our own criticizing. Sounds good to me! (Not easy, I didn't say that...)
Eh, I do pretty well overall. I mean, mostly it doesn't bother me.
I think it's been tough for my family for a long time, because I have been this way since I was very little. And there was always a lot of pressure to seek status and so on. But I never really cared about it. I've only really cared about being happy, and being happy is very easy when you follow your passions, live simply, and really just do whatever you do as authentically as possible.
I certainly don't expect everyone or anyone to be "perfect." I do struggle with my experience of somehow being judged, though I would agree that an aspect of it is, probably, them just trying to reassure themselves.
As an example, whenever I make a decision different from whatever my family is trending, I'm asked "don't you like the way you were raised?" And yes, I do. And, I believe I was raised this way. That is, I believe I was raised to authentically live my dreams. It turns out that doing so involves having my own business, living in another country, owning less, being liberal (and honestly, calm about politics), and being buddhist (with some Jungian, Campbell, and Steiner stuff tossed in).
I think, too, that I am actually walking the talk. I was raised with "If you can Dream It, you can Do It." But I learned that clarity was important in this process. You have to be clear in your dreams, so that you can map out a consistent path of doing. And then, you have to -- actually do it. And I am.
I think that this is a stark mirror for them. I think my parents have dreamed big, but done small. They have a lot of self-defeating behaviors (so do I, of course), and I think they see me achieving on their "true" terms rather than their "less true" terms. By that I mean that I am succeeding in actuality, but not in appearance. They are succeeding in appearance, but not really in actuality. And I think that confuses them a bit, because they have the trappings of success -- but do they have the true feeling of success?
I think sometimes yes and sometimes no.
And I think the house brings this up.
My mother has always wanted to live at the beach or on a golf course. They lived on a golf course for a time, but it was beyond their means. They downsized to an apartment (it's nice) and a shorter commute -- their lifestyle is much better. And it's close to some links, so they're good to go, really. They were 45 minutes from us before we moved here -- which was really nice for Hawk's first year. They are 5 hrs from my sister.
(I have to say my only sadness in moving is separating Hawk from his grandparents. They go well together.)
I think that whenever I have a success on my own terms that crosses over what they would define as success, there's some . . . upset. I don't think it's personal, it's just frustrating. LOL
But, it will pass, too. Like, for 15 years my mother harped on me about wearing make up (i don't. I do, now, tint my lashes and eyebrows, and i use lip balm -- so it's like make up), and at 30, when she brought it up again, i said 'You know, we've been having this conversation for 15 years. Do you think we can let it go?" And we laughed and she did.
I think this stuff is more subterranean for them, and they don't even know that it leaks out.
Also, I'm very nervous about the acceptance factor because they are visiting at christmas. I love my life, truly, and I don't want it to be criticized when I'm first sharing it with them. So, I'm very fussed up about that.
And i met a black sheep over the summer here, too, and just wanted to snuggle the guy forever and ever. cute as. :D
I thought my parents were god like creatures of absolute wonder for so long. My Mom broke away from "the" church early on and learned about comparative religion and psychology. She was really my hero for a long time. I was in my 30s when she expressed some regret about teaching her kids to think for themselves. It was hard for me but I began to see her as just another hairless ape, like me, after that.
BAAAAA BAAAAAA Black sheep joining the ranks. I always knew my mom would never see me in the same adoring way she sees my brother. She doesn't like my sister either. But I thought we at least had a mother daughter relationship until recently. She did something that made it abundantly clear that she was using an event in my life to get what she wanted for my brother. When I called her on it, over the next two days she proceeded to call me and tell me what she really thought of me. Goody two shoes, uppitty, martyr, never did a thing for her in my life, etc. I was stunned and furious.
I'm only in the beginning stages of dealing with this stark reality. Some days I'm relieved that I am no longer accepting her calls. Other days I mourn the loss of what little motherly relationship I had with her. Other days I'm just pissed off. I'm working on it. So I know how you feel.
wow, regretting free-thinking. interesting. :)
i know that my parents and sister are in a more codependent relationship than I am with them. it's the same with my ILs and DH. they feel that our sisters require more "management" and help -- and we eschew that "management" in the extreme. It's funny.
IshbelRobertson
4-28-11, 5:57pm
If you are living in another country, away from your parents - you shouldn't be fixating on what THEY say, do, etc.
I've lived in lots of countries around the world - and, whilst I adored my family, I just got on with MY life, with MY family and kept in contact via phone calls and letters (latterly emails).... worked like a charm!
I don't mean to sound rude, but I am also hearing some criticism of THEM from YOU in your original post. They are Republican? Yikes! And Catholic? Oh, man. While you are calm and liberal and walk the talk. So their values are to have a big house and a long commute. It isn't a worse set of values than yours, it is simply different. And maybe they also sense YOUR disapproval when they speak with you.
Perhaps you are also having trouble agreeing to disagree.
I don't have an issue with the differences. I was simply pointing out the contrast.
I do not assume that liberal/buddhist/whatevers are more authentic people. I know plenty of authentic catholic republicans, and I think that -- overall -- my family does quite well with authenticity (otherwise, I would not have learned it), but they also have self-defeating behaviors (many of which I inherited), and sometimes they pitfall and sometimes they overcome, which is the same with me. I actually hold a lot of catholic/republican values, personally -- I just don't hard core affiliate with the party. I don't affiliate with any party.
I also don't have a problem with the long commute and big house thing. When choosing where to live now, we had to choose the neighborhood vs the commute. We chose the neighborhood. So, I'm not against a commute (we currently walk 7-10 minutes to work; this will mean a 20-45 minute commute by bus depending upon which bus) for the house/neighborhood/whatever one wants.
The tension for me is really that my parents and sister are similar, and we are different. And that difference isn't a problem for us, but seems to be a problem for them -- by the way they react. It is a problem for my sister, she brought it up to me. She says that we live in a very weird way, that she doesn't understand, and it makes her uncomfortable. She also doesn't get how i "get to do whatever i want." which makes no sense to me because, doesn't everyone?
In addition, when I'm excited about my life -- and they ask me about what I'm excited about -- I share it with them and it's met with "No, that's wrong, you *should* have more space; you *should* have a sofa; you *should* have more dishes." It's bizarro. :D
So, no, living my life isn't judging them. But I do think that they may feel challenged (personally) by the way I live. LIke, when I was vegan (I'm not anymore)
It occurred to me they make a big deal about "misunderstanding" your lifestyle choices because it takes some power away from them. Since your sister is in such straits, they swoop in for the rescue, hence hold some power and influence. Their criticisms of you comes from a place of resentment that they can't influence/control that part of your life.
Bravo to you for being the black sheep! I always find black sheep the more interesting people in a family, anyway.
Their criticisms of you comes from a place of resentment that they can't influence/control that part of your life.
Oh man, this strikes a nerve it's so spot on for me. I keep thinking... Hey, even if you're right and my decisions and lifestyle are "wrong" don't you want to enjoy some time with me, your son, before the grim reaper knocks us down. I'm starting to see some humor in the whole situation because my Grandmother spent a lot of time and a lot of tough love trying to bring them into the fold of her religion and make sure all of souls were saved. They weren't having any of it and it was a constant source of stress. My situation with them is very similar. I know my Grandma really meant well AND she caused them a lot of heartache. I know my folks mean well.
I do agree re: power thing. I know that my sister and parents are in a heavier co-dependent relationship than we are; it's the same with my ILs and SIL. my MIL particularly hates how she has *zero* influence in our lives. We are, literally, the exact opposite of what she wants and thinks we should be, and her reaction to it is *extreme*. I'm *really* glad that we live far, far away from my ILs. My parents, not as much, but the pressure would get intense.
It was always so funny. My mother loves to shop, and since she does (I dislike it), I would join her because I wanted to be with her. I taught yoga then, and never had any need for pants suits. Every time we went shopping, she wanted me to buy pants suits. I would say no, and then she would insist on buying me pants suits. I would say no, and she would buy it during the week while we were apart and bring it to me. And then I'd store a new, unworn pants suit in my closet for a year or so, until I gave it away to one of those organizations that dresses lower income women for corporate positions ("Dress for Success" is one such organization). Never worn.
Finally, after about 4-5 years of doing this, and my mother always asking me about why i never wore my cute pants suits, I finally told her it was because they were impractical and unnecessary. She didn't understand how. why couldn't I just wear them and then change for yoga class?
So, I pointed out my day: I get up, clean the house, clean up, head out to work, go for a hike, have a picnic lunch, go and teach more yoga until about 7, and then go home and hve dinner. I would get to wear the pants suit to clean my house, go on a hike and a picnic, and then when I was home having dinner.
Her response: "what about weddings? you need a nice pants suit to go to weddings." I think I go to one wedding every 7 or 8 years. I told her this. And I finally said "How about this. If I need a pantsuit, I'll let you know, and you can buy it for me." She agreed. I, thankfully, having gotten a pantsuit in about 6 or 8 years.
whenever I would visit my mother and sister, they would want to go shopping and they would wear their pantsuits. I would wear my normal "uniform" -- yoga tights, pencil skirt, tank top and cardigan sweater, denim jacket, scarf (this is spring/summer/fall, btw -- i wear a warmer peacoat in winter), and ballet flats. i didn't look over or underdressed compared to heir pantsuits. LOL But, they would say "why don't you wear one of my old pants suits?"
gawddamned pants suits. LOL
It's very funny.
I've just decided it's hard dealing with parents. I want to figure something out so my kids don't feel like this when they grow up. My Mom, after raising me w/ some serious venom towards organized religion (which I praise her for to this day) was very disturbed, first to learn that I was an atheist and second to learn I had joined a UU church. She used to badger me about my weight all the time then I learned she was setting her sights on attacking my sil for being a body builder. You can't win with some people.
yeah. i think that -- and I may be wrong -- we literally have to let them go as they get old enough to go, and truly accept them as individuals, separate from us.
I don't think it's wrong to worry, or be concerned, but I hope that I take as much delight in my adult son as I do this toddler version.
gawddamned pants suits. LOL
It's very funny.
OMG Zoebird, crack.me.up!
lol as well at the pantsuits!
With my mom it was (skirt) suits: Don't you need suits? Want me to buy you suits? She, herself, had a thing for suits even though she was retired, she went running around buying suits and occasionally wearing them. Suits and vacuum cleaners, those here her gazingus pins.
I was the black sheep in our family. I'm the oldest of three. The others became a doctor and an engineer. I became a hippy. We were all loved and were a really close family.
After my mother died I was tidying through the household effects when I discovered a file of life stories written by my mother's school friends as part of their 50th school reunion. In my mother's there was a short and casual mention of the doctor and the engineer, and two paragraphs about the daughter who was living up the bush with no running water and no electricity, surrounded by snakes and bushfires, and who was building a mudbrick home. It was apparently the way my parents had always wanted to live, but had never managed to.
I don't doubt that is a truth, Mary. The flip side of fears like this tends to be that sort of. . . excitement?
Another black sheep here. It boils down to our values are different, and mine differ more from theirs than theirs do from each other. Also I am the only lesbian in the family, and at 68 years old, I don't know a lot of people who come from familes that far back where that wasn't a cause for misfittedness in the family. My frugality is considered weird, as are my connections with people who have characteristics my family looks down on--like blind, other ethnicities and colors, poor and working class. Also I don't get most of my humor from making fun of other people. On the other hand, I have distanced myself from them totally and that's not a good way for many.
But what I want most to say is how much I appreciate Zoebird's distinction about love-languages--things (theirs), experiences (hers). Wonderful way to understand it.
Wondering that too, though I understand.
I used to stigmatize myself with the "black sheep" label. Then I saw a black sheep for the first time (in NZ): Beautiful, gorgeous creature.
My family hasn't understood me for a long time. But it no longer matters - I love my life and their opinion no longer matters.
Consider just letting go of all this family politics. Take what's good for you, and turn your back on the rest & walk away whistling.
Hang in there!
:+1:
Here's one idea / story for the question "What do you care what they think?"
As a child, I would bring my discoveries and perceptions of reality to my parents for confirmation. They were basically the only authorities. The behavior that was reinforced very early in life was that presenting my awarenesses to the screening committee was both appropriate and necessary. There was a lot of approval early on - such a good little girl, such a smart little girl, keep it coming, break open that mind and let us see all of it! Excellent! ... flattery will get you everywhere, even with a two year old.
What was really happening after my perceptions started getting more sophisticated was that any reality that was inconvenient or unpleasant or disturbing or even just in contradiction to their opinion was simply vetoed by committee. You're wrong, it tastes bad to eat chocolate and peanut butter together. You're wrong, you wouldn't make a good doctor. You're wrong, that man didn't really touch you like that. (Translation: we don't like peanut butter, women aren't supposed to be doctors, and sexual abuse would be too ugly a scandal. But as a kid, you don't KNOW that it's an agenda or an opinion, it sounds like The Truth You Missed.) The underlying echo that gets set up with this is, "you can't really trust yourself. you're obviously wrong half the time. your perceptions aren't real."
As an adult, I continued this behavior for a very, very long time. It was as if there was some part of me that just knew I would "get it right" someday - I would bring them this most special hard-thought especially smart and unique idea and they'd jump for joy because I finally Got It, I finally figured out The Perfect Life.
... I did Finally get it, although it took half a lifetime. The only way to win is not to play. The 'game' is not about bringing the right new discovery, it's about affirming that I have the perceptions they wish for me to have. Even to this day, that whole "here is an idea" "no that's wrong this is right" "oh damn, failed again" cycle will happen whenever a new idea surfaces, even as I observe it happening it's still happening. Now it just happens with anger and resentment as well as shame and a sort of disembodied confusion. Being halfway out is sometimes worse than being in entirely.
But it's hard. It's one thing to know that it's a mistake to seek approval or reality validation in a certain place, and it's entirely another to "simply" believe in your own perceptions without anyone agreeing with you, when your internal mechanism for self-validation has been disabled.
So ... why do we care? Why do *I* care, even when I don't want to? Because someone has to tell me I'm not wrong, or I don't know it. I think a lot of my eternal theorizing and hypothesizing is simply a desperate attempt by my psyche to construct a reliable reality.
... I'm working on it, I'm working on it. What do you think? ;)
It's one thing to know that it's a mistake to seek approval or reality validation in a certain place, and it's entirely another to "simply" believe in your own perceptions without anyone agreeing with you, when your internal mechanism for self-validation has been disabled.
this is a really eloquent synopsis of the heart of women's conditioning in our culture. although i would say that it's not been that our mechanism for self-validation has been disabled, but that we are still developing that faculty. and we're making great strides due to our own commitment to take it on, look it in the face, and choose something new instead ...
this is a really eloquent synopsis of the heart of women's conditioning in our culture. although i would say that it's not been that our mechanism for self-validation has been disabled, but that we are still developing that faculty. and we're making great strides due to our own commitment to take it on, look it in the face, and choose something new instead ...At least I didn't say "destroyed", which was my first thought! :~)
I do think of it as "disabled", although you may be right that this is a common phenomenon for women and culturally supported for us. When I say disabled, though, I don't mean a polite way of saying permanently handicapped, I mean disabled the way a workman might say "I disabled the power". Somewhere, a switch has been thrown, the electricity's not getting through. Where is the circuit breaker, that's the question.
yup, that's what i thought you meant. to me it seems more like something that isn't there rather than something that's been disabled. it's a new capacity that is growing as we engage with it ... like, i wouldn't say that my ability to do architecture has been disabled -- i just haven't developed it. to me, this view feels more accurate, less accusatory, and more hopeful because it puts our fate where it belongs -- in our own hands.
we, individually and collectively, control the circuit breaker.
Ah! See to me, it seems like this self-validation organ is something that everybody comes equipped with - certainly some people never seem to struggle with the validity of their own perceptions, or certainly not to the extent of seeking/requiring an injection of someone else's reality to function, and they don't seem to understand it in others.
But I like the idea of it being a capacity we can build within ourselves, a skill we can learn rather than something somebody broke. Less blame more power would be a good thing.
...
As a child, I would bring my discoveries and perceptions of reality to my parents for confirmation. They were basically the only authorities. The behavior that was reinforced very early in life was that presenting my awarenesses to the screening committee was both appropriate and necessary. There was a lot of approval early on - such a good little girl, such a smart little girl, keep it coming, break open that mind and let us see all of it! Excellent! ... flattery will get you everywhere, even with a two year old.
What was really happening after my perceptions started getting more sophisticated was that any reality that was inconvenient or unpleasant or disturbing or even just in contradiction to their opinion was simply vetoed by committee...
I will suggest, as an antidote, that the OTHER way--that parents saying oh this is so wonderful! Your childhood art/piano playing/written stories/etc are so wonderful! is yes nice but in the end not any more helpful. Somewhere along the way it dawned on my that my parents had taste for sh*t and for educated people weren't savvy in the things I was doing. They truly believed that my efforts were wonderful and they did not know beans. It set me back in some ways. And finally, it caused me to develop shrewdness about evaulating certain things because I knew at a tender age that they could not. Cynical before my time.>8)
But this was just about certain things, I really had great parents and we share most values although it was sad for them that their only two children now vote Republican.
From an Unconditional Parenting standpoint (Alfie Cohn), you actually don't give an opinion on the act or item. you might say "I find you delightful!" or if the child is old enough, "what do you think of the art piece you made?" so then the child can think critically on it, but also open.
Not a black sheep but a rebel and at age 30, I simply accepted that I was different from my parents, that they were simply ordinary people and I detached over time. I was able to enjoy/discuss their differences from my views, set boundaries, accept their deaths with peace and harmony and no grief which struck me as normal.
I still have moments when I wish that I could discuss things with either parent, see something that I know that they would have really enjoyed but letting go is healthy for both parties.
Hope that you can do that for your peace of mind.
So, I'm resurrecting this because I am struggling today.
I don't know exactly what I'm struggling with, but I want to put my finger on it (or close to), so that I can work through it.
I find my emotions strong and strange. I feel "disgusted" and "angry" -- but at the level of "nagging annoyance." So, what I mean, is that if these feelings were a pain scale of one to ten with one being a low and continuous dull ache and ten being abject, torturous pain, it's about a two -- an ongoing, nagging annoyance.
I find myself bitter and frustrated.
One of my frustrations is the sense of demand that I feel -- a demand that I buy things and send them to NZ, the demand that I make arrangements to visit my sister and her new baby (well, he's about 8 months old now!). They know how tight our budget is, but they always complain about how broke my sister is -- when my sister and her husband ear 6 times what we earn right now. And, live in a much less expensive place -- their housing costs, power costs, internet and cable costs are all less than ours (our internet is $100 on it's own). I'm not asking that they visit us, honestly I never have, because any time you ask my sister how she's doing it's always 'broke.' I don't know where they spend $120k a year to be honest.
In addition, or in the same family of annoyances, my parents will ask me what I want, or what I could use that they can send.
We try to be very specific because if they buy things we cannot use and send them, it's a HUGE expense. this is particularly true when it comes to clothing. We ask them to send DS long pants, long sleeved shirts (without pictures -- patterns, colors, etc are fine, but no pictures), and weather-appropriate gear. This is usually no problem, but occasionally we get something that isn't functional, just because it was "cute." It takes up valuable space, was usually very expensive (both to purchase and ship), and I feel really terrible about shelving it or sending it back to them (to give to my nephew eventually).
I am always grateful for them sending *anything* and value the sentiment behind the whole process, but I get very upset when it's not something that I can use. This is because it means that I have 1. clothing I can't use stored around; and 2. no clothing for DS and I have to go and find and purchase it. and children's clothing in NZ is a big problem. It's either a decent price (still expensive) but so cheaply made it's not worth it; or it's so expensive that you don't want a kid playing in it (eg, a pair of jeans, $85. a t-shirt of heavy cotton: $65).
In addition, or in another aspect of this, is not being willing to give me what I want because it's not an object. My birthday is coming up, and I know what I want -- I want to get my tooth fixed. I know it's not fun, glamorous, or birthday-y. But, I want to get it done sooner rather than later. I get a discount on it, too, but it's still outside of our budget right now. I'm not in pain, either, but I want to get it done. It's $230. My parents said they would "think about it."
This doesn't bother me so much, except that when my sister had gestational diabetes, they paid for her medication. when my nephew had issues with formula and needed medication for acid reflux, they paid for the formula, the bottles, and the medication. My sister's first mother's day gift -- from my parents -- was new (and expensive) patio furnishings (over $1000). I asked again for money for my tooth, and my parents decided that it "wasn't necessary" and so I would just have to save up for it.
Then, they offered to "help us out with the house" and so I asked what they would be willing to provide. I sent my mom some drawings of what I wanted to do and some pictures as well. "it looks cold" she says. it's scandinavian minimalism. I know it is not her style. She sent other pictures saying "lets make it look like this" -- an opulent style that isn't mine. this is what happened in our house in the US. I had one design idea, and my parents said they would help me pay for it. instead, my mom ended up doing our house in her style, and I lived with it for 10 years. It was never really my style. And now, I want to do things my way.
I don't need the money -- i can budget and do things slowly. there's no hurry. I would say that it hurts my feelings. When I said i wanted a small amount of money to do the small things in my design idea (literally, under $300 NZ!), she said she would "think about it" and then decided against it. Then, within 48 hrs, my sister has pictures of her "new bedroom furniture!" that my parents bought for her for over $4,000. (my parents also bought all of the baby nursery and baby furniture -- over $2000 -- and have given my sister their old dining room set and chandelier -- $5000 -- and a three other bedrooms of furniture -- each at about $2k -- and so on and so forth.)
I don't know why I get so frustrated by this. And, my parents often pick on me because I won't "ask for help." well, they offer, I ask for what I want, and then when it's not what they want to give me, they pull it. So why get my hopes up, and then get the rug pulled out, and then they buy my sister something extravagant.
And truly, when i'm out of this emotional experience, i'm fine with the way that they live and choices they make and design styles and whatever. honestly and truly. I'm glad my sister has patio furniture, and all of the other things she has, and in particular, i'm glad that she had what she needed for her health during the pregnancy and all of that.
I think I just don't like the loop. my feelings are really hurt right now, and I feel really angry and frustrated. :)
kib---I think you have enunciated The Truth that you need to live your life well.
And you have finally come to the right place for validation. I stamp "Approved" on your forehead.
(only partially tongue in cheek)
loosechickens
6-21-11, 8:46pm
ah, Zoebird.........the first impression I get from reading your post is that your sister is willing to be "needy", need help, be seen as helpless and unable, and once she's in that position, your folks can shower her with "stuff", and feel good about "helping" her, where YOU, being of a more independent nature, just are not as amenable to Mom and Dad running your life and making your decisions, so you end up being almost "punished" with less attention, less money, and certainly not getting what YOU would like to have, rather than what they want to give, because you are not "playing the game".
Personally, I'd rather be like you (and am), than be the dysfunctional person in the family that always needs to be rescued, is the one that is willing to sell out in order to get stuff bought for them, because they can't manage on their own. Far better to be the "black sheep", to my way of thinking.
In many families, the strings, the obligations, the meddling, etc., that must be accepted in order to be the recipient of all those goodies, is very present. Which makes that "help" worth far less than the costs involved, both to your self respect, your autonomy, and your well being.
JMHO........... hang in there.......
On a side note, the use of black sheep in large flocks of sheep was used as a counting device - for every 100 white fleeced ewe, a black one was kept. Not that this has anything to do with the cultural reference you're discussing, just a sheep tidbit.
fidgiegirl
6-21-11, 11:53pm
Zoebird, I see what you are saying on the money. If you don't want to give what the person asks for, don't offer. That is frustrating. While I don't think parents need to be completely equal with their kids, they have to be aware that if it's not in the ballpark, it will at least be noticed.
Musing here, and this doesn't help your hurt feelings, but I wonder if since it sounds like your sis and your parents are kind of in the same lifestyle that maybe your parents wish that their parents would have helped them more and now they are doing what they would have liked, only they can't realize that it's not what you would like.
Do you ever notice you end a lot of your posts in smilies, even when the last three words are "angry and frustrated?" ;)
BTW, good luck on the tooth. Yuck.
yes, I do it on purpose, and largely because I am smiling. I mean, I also find it amusing that i'm so frustrated in a "why haven't i figured this?" and truly, overall, I am happy.
uhm, i do get the whole dependent/needy thing. It's *definitely* in the dynamic and has been for a long, long time. Also, the love language issue -- their language is objects and I try really hard to accommodate that (both in giving and receiving).
Gazingus pin pant suits! Thanks for making me laugh! :)
i think i'm trying to puzzle out what dynamic *i* am creating, how i can get out of it. :D
So, I'm the black sheep.... How do you deal?
Accept them for the humans that they are, with the clear understanding that we all have inherent worth and value?
ok, I came upon something.
I was reading some inspirational text or another, and it said that anything you see "out there" is really "in here" (inside oneself). So this gave me the idea of instead of trying to figure out what's what or the story, just look at what it is that bothers me. So, i wrote out all of the things that bother me into a big list. Everything.
The thing that seems to be bothering me most right now -- to the point where I feel disgusted -- is "lying" and with this, a sort of "lack of taking responsibility." This is with every situation when I feel these emotions.
So, i'm going to look into where I'm not being honest (lying) with myself and others and also where i'm not taking responsibility, and see what comes up.
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