View Full Version : Alt-Right
So, I've been reading up a little on the Alt-Right, Steve Bannon and his ilk. Entitled to their opinion? Sure. But, disconcerting. Here are two articles.. the first one is a really good (long) one about the Alt-Right and their views and mission. Then there's a CNN opinion piece on why the White House handled (or didn't handle) the Mosque shooting.
I truly am not a "sky is falling" person, but anyone can imagine that a group of people committed to the protection of their "tribe" at the expense of other groups would be a potential threat to this nation and its ideals. And if that group has power in the White House..
Oh, Chicken Little...
http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/03/29/an-establishment-conservatives-guide-to-the-alt-right/
http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/04/opinions/facts-matter-terror-threat-aslan/index.html
The sky isn't falling - until it is. If more Germans had thought the sky was falling and pushed back, Hitler and his ilk would have just been an unsavory annoyance instead of running the country.
frugal-one
2-4-17, 10:50am
So, I've been reading up a little on the Alt-Right, Steve Bannon and his ilk. Entitled to their opinion? Sure. But, disconcerting. Here are two articles.. the first one is a really good (long) one about the Alt-Right and their views and mission. Then there's a CNN opinion piece on why the White House handled (or didn't handle) the Mosque shooting.
I truly am not a "sky is falling" person, but anyone can imagine that a group of people committed to the protection of their "tribe" at the expense of other groups would be a potential threat to this nation and its ideals. And if that group has power in the White House..
Oh, Chicken Little...
http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/03/29/an-establishment-conservatives-guide-to-the-alt-right/
http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/04/opinions/facts-matter-terror-threat-aslan/index.html
Same here. I am not usually the sky is falling type either. It is hard not to feel this way when so MUCH drama and radical actions are being taken!
The sky isn't falling - until it is. If more Germans had thought the sky was falling and pushed back, Hitler and his ilk would have just been an unsavory annoyance instead of running the country.
I'm not sure what you are saying creaker. Isn't it good to respond as if the sky is falling sooner, before it gets too bad?
I'm not sure what you are saying creaker. Isn't it good to respond as if the sky is falling sooner, before it gets too bad?
I think that was exactly what creaker was saying. That we need to do more than just hope that things work out. We need to continue to push back now against the white house white supremacists* until they are finally thrown into the dustbin of failed historical figures.
*can we please just stop with the alt right name and call them what they really are?
I think that was exactly what creaker was saying. That we need to do more than just hope that things work out. We need to continue to push back now against the white house white supremacists* until they are finally thrown into the dustbin of failed historical figures.
*can we please just stop with the alt right name and call them what they really are?;
That's exactly what I meant - it's tricky figuring out when to react. When it becomes blatantly clear, it's likely too late. And if you do react soon enough and are successful, you'll never know whether you really needed to or not.
I like what Kevin Williamson wrote about our current sky-is-falling panic.
"Politicos and angst-peddlers left and right want you terrified and anxious, and they want you to believe that these United States comprise a vast impoverished anarchic Eliotic wasteland, a kind of gigantic continental Haiti with lots of shopping malls and a surprisingly large number of Range Rovers. But if you drive around the country, it doesn’t look like that at all. It looks, for all its very real problems, amazing."
Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444620/american-politics-wealth-prosperity-liberty-texas-california-doomsayers-tom-wolfe
iris lilies
2-5-17, 1:21pm
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That's exactly what I meant - it's tricky figuring out when to react. When it becomes blatantly clear, it's likely too late. And if you do react soon enough and are successful, you'll never know whether you really needed to or not.
Yes, I can see that.
and thank you for your restraint in not ending every one of Trump centered posts with " ! "
ApatheticNoMore
2-5-17, 2:07pm
Isn't it good to respond as if the sky is falling sooner, before it gets too bad?
not if it's not thought out. Like ok the women's march, I could see that as reacting before it gets too bad potentially (I could also just see that as just being upset we didn't get Hillary who was herself a bad choice - I mean kill me quickly or kill me slowly but neither are good from my perspective!). But I give that protest some wide berth even if they didn't seem to have a clear agenda etc.. Although some focused on women's issues specifically, others did not seem to be singing from the same page. Well ok, potential early pushback against Trump and maybe a way to network for further pushback if needed. So while it itself accomplishes nothing, it's not necessarily a bad thing.
But if reacting early is a synonym for panic for panic sake, then I have to wonder. If it's going ballistic on Trump for things 1) that every administration does - change staff for instance 2) that he alone doesn't have the power to do. The Trump administration is very much trying to mislead people here with their barrage of orders etc.. They are very much in on it, and very malevolent here. But I'm talking about the reaction and not Trump right here 3) stuff that the opposition (Dem party) also does or that has been done before - such as say every Republican prez on some abortion issues (which is fine to oppose, just fine actually and extremely so, but just I wish it was done with some context).
It's possible that reacting early in a panic is actively destroying the possibility for EFFECTIVE opposition (by say not focusing on Congress as well which is going to be very important). Also I'm not sure what good panic that actively makes people stupider really is, but maybe it is, maybe I'm just too much of an intellectually honest type to understand the value of good propaganda.
Also if Trump IS Hitler it makes cooperation with say Joseph Stalin makes sense, but if Trump is not Hitler then you choose who you enable. If Trump is Hitler I must ignore the few things he might actually be right on (against the TPP etc.) in the name of fighting Hitler (at least the globalists aren't Hitler afterall!) but if Trump is not Hitler then ... I acknowledge what he gets right and oppose what he gets wrong and focus on maybe what I can do by writing Senators or whatever (my CA Senators never really seem to listen to their voters anyway, but thats a different issue).
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I don't think the alt-right really has some vast constituency or something, even those who voted for Trump out of sheer racism, many of them have probably never heard of them, racism after all isn't just German but really as American an institution as the KKK. However the neo-cons never had any real constituency either and that didn't stop them from wrecking havoc once they had access to power itself.
It's possible that reacting early in a panic is actively destroying the possibility for EFFECTIVE opposition (by say not focusing on Congress as well which is going to be very important). Also I'm not sure what good panic that actively makes people stupider really is, but maybe it is, maybe I'm just too much of an intellectually honest type to understand the value of good propaganda.
I think that we're seeing this in much of the left's opposition to Trump right now: many seem too unhinged to offer effective "resistance". Others, resorting to violence, grandiose virtue-signalling or even calling for a military coup, are doing active harm to their cause. Competing with one another over who's most "terrified", and the incessant Nazi talk (can't they toss in a few other dictators, if only for variety's sake?), will only serve to distract and annoy the general public.
It may take the left some time to regain it's composure. I expect the real checks on Trump's excesses to come from the right.
It's possible that reacting early in a panic is actively destroying the possibility for EFFECTIVE opposition (by say not focusing on Congress as well which is going to be very important). Also I'm not sure what good panic that actively makes people stupider really is, but maybe it is, maybe I'm just too much of an intellectually honest type to understand the value of good propaganda.
Also if Trump IS Hitler it makes cooperation with say Joseph Stalin makes sense, but if Trump is not Hitler then you choose who you enable. If Trump is Hitler I must ignore the few things he might actually be right on (against the TPP etc.) in the name of fighting Hitler (at least the globalists aren't Hitler afterall!) but if Trump is not Hitler then ... I acknowledge what he gets right and oppose what he gets wrong and focus on maybe what I can do by writing Senators or whatever ...
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Well said--you've put into words what I've had trouble putting into words.
I think that we're seeing this in much of the left's opposition to Trump right now: many seem too unhinged to offer effective "resistance". Others, resorting to violence, grandiose virtue-signalling or even calling for a military coup, are doing active harm to their cause. Competing with one another over who's most "terrified", and the incessant Nazi talk (can't they toss in a few other dictators, if only for variety's sake?), will only serve to distract and annoy the general public.
It may take the left some time to regain it's composure. I expect the real checks on Trump's excesses to come from the right.
I hadn't heard that people were calling for a military coup.
I hadn't heard that people were calling for a military coup.
Sarah Silverman.
I agree with ANM about the extreme reaction/hostility to Trump. For my part, my "resistance" is going to take the form of more actively advocating for specific issues--not so much resisting Trump for Trump's sake.
My point in starting the thread is more concern about Bannon than Trump. Sure the alt-right may be a fringe group, but they have a leader in Bannon, who now has significant power in the White House. I think, to be fair, as others have said, our checks and balances so far have kept him "in check"--with regard to the immigration ban for instance. I want to keep a very watchful eye on how he injects his white supremacist views into Trump's policies, and how he manages to legitimize those views among the people.
I agree with ANM about the extreme reaction/hostility to Trump. For my part, my "resistance" is going to take the form of more actively advocating for specific issues--not so much resisting Trump for Trump's sake.
David Frum offers just that advice in the Atlantic.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/02/how-to-beat-trump/515736/
David Frum offers just that advice in the Atlantic.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/02/how-to-beat-trump/515736/
An excellent article from one who knows the territory.
A friend e-mailed me a John Lennon quote this morning that said essentially the same thing: “When it gets down to having to use violence, then you are playing the system’s game. The establishment will irritate you – pull your beard, flick your face – to make you fight. Because once they’ve got you violent, then they know how to handle you. The only thing they don’t know how to handle is non-violence and humor.”
My resistance so far involves letters to my reps and monetary contributions. I'll leave the thuggery to Breitbart hires.
I'll leave the thuggery to Breitbart hires.
You've pointed the finger at Breitbartian mercenaries before. Is there any evidence for that?
You've pointed the finger at Breitbartian mercenaries before. Is there any evidence for that?
Berkeley professor Robert Reich says the rioters were outside agitators--"almost paramilitary"--and I trust his instincts. Maybe they weren't on the Breitbart payroll, but these kinds of agents provocateurs were common during the anti-war protests of the seventies. Time will tell, I guess.
Sarah Silverman.
Ok, so at least person was calling for a coup. But there are extremists on all sides of anything. Plenty of people on the far right seem to love that saying about blood and the tree of liberty.
Berkeley professor Robert Reich says the rioters were outside agitators--"almost paramilitary"--and I trust his instincts. Maybe they weren't on the Breitbart payroll, but these kinds of agents provocateurs were common during the anti-war protests of the seventies. Time will tell, I guess.
Reich admits he has no evidence. These are just conspiratorial musings driven by an inability to think ill of anyone opposed to Trump. You might as well blame the Freemasons or our Space Lizard Overlords.
Reich admits he has no evidence. These are just conspiratorial musings driven by an inability to think ill of anyone opposed to Trump. You might as well blame the Freemasons or our Space Lizard Overlords.
Ha--I blamed the Space Lizard Overlords for the last Republican administration! Dick Cheney has reptoid written all over him. :confused:
Ha--I blamed the Space Lizard Overlords for the last Republican administration! Dick Cheney has reptoid written all over him. :confused:
Much like today, that was a period when the left saw monsters under their bed. Bush Derangement Syndrome seems almost quaint today, compared with Post Trump Stress Disorder.
We all know the state of the nation in 2008 after 8 years of W.
Much like today, that was a period when the left saw monsters under their bed. Bush Derangement Syndrome seems almost quaint today, compared with Post Trump Stress Disorder.
It's not "post" until he's gone.
My main concern is that either the Trumpkins or the ControLeft will win this culture war.
My main concern is that either the Trumpkins or the ControLeft will win this culture war.
I doubt that will happen. The solid core of this country gets that love doesn't trump hate by intimidating and silencing opponents. They also understand that greatness does not grow out of bluster and exclusion.
This too shall pass.
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