View Full Version : Hot Car Bill: Good Sense or Absurd?
Talking about absurdity (reading IL's thread on The Beguiled) what do you think about this bill?
http://www.nhregister.com/health/20170703/connecticuts-blumenthal-introduces-hot-car-bill-aimed-at-preventing-the-death-of-children
This seems crazy to me. There have been a few very tragic instances of kids being left in cars, but is it enough of a safety concern to mandate that all car manufacturers build in alerts? We have bells for "put your seatbelt on" and dings for "your lights are on" and beeps for "you left the key in the ignition." Do we really need another buzzer for "Excuse me, did you forget something? Like your kid??"
What do you think?
iris lilies
7-8-17, 2:22pm
Talking about absurdity (reading IL's thread on The Beguiled) what do you think about this bill?
http://www.nhregister.com/health/20170703/connecticuts-blumenthal-introduces-hot-car-bill-aimed-at-preventing-the-death-of-children
This seems crazy to me. There have been a few very tragic instances of kids being left in cars, but is it enough of a safety concern to mandate that all car manufacturers build in alerts? We have bells for "put your seatbelt on" and dings for "your lights are on" and beeps for "you left the key in the ignition." Do we really need another buzzer for "Excuse me, did you forget something? Like your kid??"
What do you think?
see the PEOPLE WILL DIE!!! video. That sums up my opinion.
I just bought a new car.
It is festooned with clearly-mandated safety features that add cost and complexity, and likely reduce reliability. And some of them are so annoying that they may *reduce* safety - the backup camera, while handy, is absurdly bright at night, wiping out my night vision and making it difficult to use my actual eyes to backup...
I wonder how many people are going to crash their cars while poking at the user interface for all these "features"?
I wonder how many people are going to crash their cars while poking at the user interface for all these "features"?
I've almost gotten into an accident pressing the "I Agree Never to Press These Buttons While Driving" button.
IL: Just saw the PEOPLE WILL DIE! video--hilarious.
It is all a plot to let driverless vehicles take over. First we don't back up, later we don't drive forwards. And the difficulty employers have attracting CDL drivers will be eliminated. Robots will drive with no DOT limits on hours and no overtime.
At 35ish deaths per year and 17,500,000 new cars sold annually (that's the 2015 number, the first I found on google) that works out to 1 in 500,000 cars involved in a forgotten child death scenario. Figuring an average of $100 per car (a completely random guess on my part) to add a sensor/beeper that works out to spending $50,000,000 per life saved. That doesn't seem to be a particularly productive use of money.
At 35ish deaths per year and 17,500,000 new cars sold annually (that's the 2015 number, the first I found on google) that works out to 1 in 500,000 cars involved in a forgotten child death scenario. Figuring an average of $100 per car (a completely random guess on my part) to add a sensor/beeper that works out to spending $50,000,000 per life saved. That doesn't seem to be a particularly productive use of money.
"But if it saves only one life!!!!", or so they always tell me.
I spent some time in a hot car last summer, while my SO ran some errands. I foolishly neglected to have him leave the windows down. It was probably between 75 and 80 degrees. After five minutes, I was pretty desperately TOO HOT, and opened the door. Which I could do, because I'm an adult human, not a tiny child or a pet. So anything auto manufacturers can do to prevent helpless beings from being cooked to death from the inside out is A-OK with me.
I will confess to having made forcible entry into vehicles to relieve heat stress on dogs (and in one case a goat) that idiots left inside. Handy always having a carbide glass breaker on my person. All part of being Batman I suppose.
I believe Oregon just passed a bill stating that citizens who break a car window to save a child, animal, or any suffering individual from the heat will not be held liable. Of course if the person or animal is lying down, they may go unnoticed.
If we must go down the road of trying to legislate away stupidity can we at least do it thoughtfully? I would imagine we could accomplish the same thing by requiring baby car seat manufacturers to put a sensor in the seat belt of the seat combined with a keychain dongle that is notified everytime the belt is buckled/unbuckled. If the dongle gets taken far enough to lose contact with the seat while the belt is still buckled it starts screaming "DON'T BE A BABY BAKER!!!" Or at least beeps annoyingly.
Far less kids are born each year than new cars sold making the effort less expensive and better targeted, not to mention that people who don't have small children are not saddled with additional cost.
iris lilies
7-8-17, 7:06pm
"But if it saves only one life!!!!", or so they always tell me.
jp1 just wants babies to die, he doesn't care.
edited to add: smiley face :)
Today I got a message fom Facebook that says "We care about you..."
and yet, somehow, I doubt the sincerity of that message. :~)
I guess my point is that anyone or any entity ( the Zuckerberg empire cough cough) can offer empty words that appear supportive, but emoty doesnt accomplish anything.
If we must go down the road of trying to legislate away stupidity can we at least do it thoughtfully?
RFID implants in newborns. Scanners everywhere child safety is a concern. You could even chip the parents, and have real time monitoring of children/parent/designated-caregiver proximity.
Oh, the fun things we can do to improve safety!
RFID implants in newborns. Scanners everywhere child safety is a concern. You could even chip the parents, and have real time monitoring of children/parent/designated-caregiver proximity.
Oh, the fun things we can do to improve safety!
The dongle/carseat thing isn't a bad idea at all. Perhaps a dongle, collar, heat sensor for pets?
If we really think that saving every possible life matters we should just outlaw cars. After all, not only would we prevent 35 baked babies every year, we'd prevent 30,000 annual traffic fatalities. A double win!
If we really think that saving every possible life matters we should just outlaw cars. After all, not only would we prevent 35 baked babies every year, we'd prevent 30,000 annual traffic fatalities. A double win!
Probably should require training and licensing for parents as well, with ongoing educational requirements and performance testing.
When I had my son I wanted to go home after 24 hours and they wanted me to stay another day because I was a first time mother and they wanted me to watch all sorts of parenting videos. After I told them my mom raised 3 kids and was two streets over they released me. While in there I was exhausted and when I did fall asleep they kept waking me up to take my vitals so I really wanted out. The human species survived just fine before their videos! Also I chose a hospital with rooming in but the nurses kept saying they knew more about taking care of the baby than me and finally whisked him off to the nursery. This is how babies get switched at birth. It was very patronizing to start out parenting that way, with the assumption that I was incompetent.
Probably should require training and licensing for parents as well, with ongoing educational requirements and performance testing.
And if I'm at all typical, mandatory 24 hour surveillance of teenagers to prevent them from doing stupid things that could seriously harm themselves. (and i didn't drink yet, so I didn't even have to say "hold my beer, watch this!" before doing them.)
ToomuchStuff
7-9-17, 1:59am
Those that forget and kill a kid, while they won't win a Darwin award, they are helping stop their genes from continuing.
They could just mandate all cars to be convertibles and the tops must go down upon parking (and have indoor/outdoor materials due to weather).
How does it work? Anyone ever carry something heavy in their car (big toolbox, groceries, etc) that would set off the sensor?
There are a lot of things I have read/seen that make me like more basic vehicles. Ever been around a vehicle that they have to remove most of the electronics, due to dealing with explosives (and can't have any errant transmissions)?
How about all these "keyless entry" cars, if your a surfer, who has to wear his car key?
I saw a book today, that interested me (didn't get it though, other expenses), called the Revenge of Analog. This seems along those lines.
I don't know who first said it, but one of my favorite sayings is that nothing is foolproof for a sufficiently talented fool.
I don't know who first said it, but one of my favorite sayings is that nothing is foolproof for a sufficiently talented fool.
I was once sent to apologize to a customer for the death of their system admin, who died from our equipment.
He'd removed 3 different safety-interlock panels, all nicely marked, requiring tools and overrides. Then managed to bridge the main power busbar with his hand. BOOOMPHFFF!
I'm not sure what else we could have really done, this guy was bent on destruction - even if we'd put the gear into a bank vault, I suspect he'd have found a way.
ToomuchStuff
7-9-17, 10:05am
I don't know who first said it, but one of my favorite sayings is that nothing is foolproof for a sufficiently talented fool.
Douglas Adams, from Mostly Harmless
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof, is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
I was fortunate to read the quote, long before I experienced the reality of it.
If we really think that saving every possible life matters we should just outlaw cars. After all, not only would we prevent 35 baked babies every year, we'd prevent 30,000 annual traffic fatalities. A double win!
In general, I'll cheerfully hand out Darwin awards--to the survivors--but I have this thing for completely innocent victims, of which this is a case in point. Maybe after these airheads have to replace a few broken windows, they'll be sufficiently schooled in the matter.
rosarugosa
7-9-17, 12:31pm
Douglas Adams was one of my heroes!
Teacher Terry
7-9-17, 3:20pm
It was on the news that when a baby died in a hot car a little boy came up with an idea to have an alarm that you could buy attach to a car seat. It would also start a fan blowing on the baby and make a loud sound. They have raised $ to make it happen and his Dad is an engineer which sounds better to me then putting them in cars.
There are already products on the market to indicate babies in back.
Why dont we pass legislatin that requires taxpayers to buy one for every new parent? Thats the ticket.
Maybe some of you live in smarter areas, but it seems like there have been a fair number of deaths in the past couple of years in the city near here because of a parent leaving the child in a car. If we have a bell to tell us we left our lights on....why not a way of keeping a young child from dying a horrible death?
Maybe some of you live in smarter areas, but it seems like there have been a fair number of deaths in the past couple of years in the city near here because of a parent leaving the child in a car. If we have a bell to tell us we left our lights on....why not a way of keeping a young child from dying a horrible death?
Because of the number of people who actually have young children at risk of being left in the car, versus the number of people who don't. It just doesn't seem practical. I like jp1 and Teacher Terry's idea to put the alarm on the car seat. That makes more sense to me.
I just looked up the numbers (from http://noheatstroke.org/ ). From 1998 through 7/2017, 718 children died from being left in vehicles. That's about 36 kids a year. The data set includes children through the age of 14, the majority of the deaths are in the age range 5 and under.
http://noheatstroke.org/deaths.png
Because of the number of people who actually have young children at risk of being left in the car, versus the number of people who don't. It just doesn't seem practical. I like jp1 and Teacher Terry's idea to put the alarm on the car seat. That makes more sense to me.
Sure, but the alarms dont just buy and mount themselves. We need A LAW that makes it mandatory. Because if it is a LAW everyone will abide, doncha know.
For other causes of death in children:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/child-health.htm
Detailed stats on pg 41 (Table 10):
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr65/nvsr65_04.pdf
iris lilies
7-9-17, 5:37pm
For other causes of death in children:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/child-health.htm
Detailed stats on pg 41 (Table 10):
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr65/nvsr65_04.pdf
We probably have more children killed here in The 'Lou as accidental victims in gun homicides During gangland wars than we lose by heating up in cars. I wish gangland members would be outlawed from owing guns and shooting them at innocent citizens.
oh, wait...
I was once sent to apologize to a customer for the death of their system admin, who died from our equipment.
He'd removed 3 different safety-interlock panels, all nicely marked, requiring tools and overrides. Then managed to bridge the main power busbar with his hand. BOOOMPHFFF!
I'm not sure what else we could have really done, this guy was bent on destruction - even if we'd put the gear into a bank vault, I suspect he'd have found a way.
Our County Fleet Garage has a wide variety of signs and stickers warning the staff not to stand under moving dump bodies, not to drink transmission fluid, not to expect oxygen from particle filter masks, etc.
Our County Fleet Garage has a wide variety of signs and stickers warning the staff not to stand under moving dump bodies, not to drink transmission fluid, not to expect oxygen from particle filter masks, etc.
hahaha... I'm sure legally you have to assume everyone just crawled out from under a rock. I remember laughing when I opened my new car manual and the first sentence was, "This car requires gasoline to operate." This was before alternatives to gas, so I really thought it was a strange thing to have to say, but they probably got people complaining that their car doesn't work after they went through the first tank of gas.
Chicken lady
7-10-17, 9:29am
Some of those hot car deaths were deliberate. So you'd just be increasing " accidental" drownings or whatnot.
This thread reminds me of growing up and riding around in my Dad's Austin Healey sitting on what was basically where the convertible cover met the back of the car. We weren't in seats, we basically were on top of the car, with our feet dangling into the car.
Good times, but different times.
catherine
7-10-17, 10:22am
This thread reminds me of growing up and riding around in my Dad's Austin Healey sitting on what was basically where the convertible cover met the back of the car. We weren't in seats, we basically were on top of the car, with our feet dangling into the car.
Good times, but different times.
I know! Same here. I remember my toddler son sitting on the pull-down armrest in the front seat. Never occurred to me that he'd be a flying missile through the windshield if we hit something. Today I'd be thrown in jail.
ToomuchStuff
7-10-17, 10:31am
It was on the news that when a baby died in a hot car a little boy came up with an idea to have an alarm that you could buy attach to a car seat. It would also start a fan blowing on the baby and make a loud sound. They have raised $ to make it happen and his Dad is an engineer which sounds better to me then putting them in cars.
There are already products on the market to indicate babies in back.
Why dont we pass legislatin that requires taxpayers to buy one for every new parent? Thats the ticket.
Local police now have alarmed fans in their K9 units, after one failed and the dog died while the officer was inside a restaurant. Alarms fail, fans fail, are they going to outlaw failure/breakdowns?
One of the useful products already out there (and mandated), is called a rear view mirror. People still don't use those.
catherine
7-10-17, 11:00am
One of the useful products already out there (and mandated), is called a rear view mirror. People still don't use those.
True, but in the case of the babies, when they're below a certain age they are in rear-facing car seats, so even if you look in your rear view mirror, the baby is most likely not visible to the driver. I like the dongle idea. But I do think it's a personal responsibility issue. I would not be in favor of a law mandating that all parents have one, based on the the low incidence of these types of events.
iris lilies
7-10-17, 11:02am
I remember taking a summer road trip up north with two of my small, elderly French bulldogs. It was 102 degrees Farenheit when we left. All I could think of is "if this car fails and strands me on the side of the road, these dogs are dead. I will be fine in this heat, but they will not be."
i really should have left them at home.
But the trip went fine, they were able to meet my cousin who loves Frenchies which was the reason they accompanied me, but in hindsight, that wasnt the smartest idea and it was taking a risk with them.
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