View Full Version : Crossing the border next Thursday, a little apprehensive.....
gimmethesimplelife
7-13-17, 2:31pm
Next Thursday, 07/20, I will be crossing the border at Nogales to have my teeth deep cleaned (won't go on about the savings, you'all have heard that on and on and on by now) and to have lunch with a few people I am doing a survival run to the border with - two folks on this trip don't qualify for Expanded Medicaid and of course on their incomes seeing an Mexican doctor is so much easier to pull off than spending a much shorter period of time with a much more expensive American doctor. I will be staying with relatives of my husband's who live in Colonia Kennedy - one of the nicest neighborhoods in Nogales and a couple of bumps up the ladder from the 85006 to say the least.
My worry is as usual not about crossing into Mexico but in returning to the US - from what I have heard (and I will admit here and now this is all thirdhand or more and I was not there to witness any of this personally) the US CBP was become more storm-trooperish under Trump and are doing whatever they can to hassle and harrass citizens fleeing across the border to save money. I am really worried that I am going to get hassled and harrassed......what scares me is that if such happens, and I don't legally fight back, I will have to live with myself and I'm just not willing to do so for this or any other country. No can do. So crossing into Mexico - such a liberating experience, so joyfully full of human rights due to medical/dental/optical not being extortionately priced to keep you on the treadmill until death - is now also a fear based experience, due to Donald Trump and the complete and total lack of checks and balances over US Customs and Border Patrol.
I'm hoping what I am hearing is overblown urban legend as I don't care to tie up all the time fighting illegal harrassment would require - I'm hoping that this is relatively smooth and painless. We'll see. I hope to post an update that my fears were unfounded, I really do. So many people count on Mexico for life.....this is a HUGE deal even if to the regulars here it's not apparent why such would drive me to this level of fear. Must be nice to live in that country is all I can say........(to clarify, I mean in America at a social class level where my above words don't make immediate sense that would cause you to nod even if no one was around to see your agreement). Rob
...the US CBP was become more storm-trooperish under Trump and are doing whatever they can to hassle and harrass citizens fleeing across the border to save money.
... a fear based experience, due to Donald Trump and the complete and total lack of checks and balances over US Customs and Border Patrol.
Where do you even come up with this stuff?!!???
I've crossed the border dozens of times since Trump was elected, and I've seen no stormtroopers. During the Obama administration, the local district got a bit out-of-hand, and people here had *legitimate* concerns crossing the border, but that was resolved through the fullness of time and our existing administrative, oversight, and review processes.
I'm hoping what I am hearing is overblown urban legend
Ya think?
as I don't care to tie up all the time fighting illegal harrassment would require
What would constitute "illegal harassment" in your mind?
iris lilies
7-13-17, 3:24pm
We missed several Canadians at our North American Lily Show recently. They didn't come because they were afraid of trouble on the border. Well, also and to be fair, some were mad about a procedural show thIngie.
So yeah, too bad about border trouble.
oh I forgot, it was LAST YEAR in June 2016 that they were turned away at the border with their lilies. Who was in office then? Hmmm,let me think...now, its coming to me...give me a minute...
Rob, I know you've told us hundreds of times that you've been afraid of the US since you were 8 or 10 or 12 years old (lately you do seem to have settled on 8). All I can say is that someone did you a terrible dis-service placing that sort of fear into your head although you've had plenty of time to recover, and yet haven't.
Speaking of borders, my wife and I drove into California from Arizona on I40 last week. I was surprised to see a border checkpoint where all westbound traffic on the Interstate were stopped for potential inspection. We were asked where we were headed and where we came from before being allowed to continue. This morning, we left California crossing into Nevada on I80. Again, the westbound traffic on the Interstate were all stopped before being allowed to proceed into the state.
I've been to 48 of the 50 states and have never seen border checkpoints such as this. Who do you think is responsible, Trump or Jerry Brown?
Teacher Terry
7-13-17, 4:54pm
NV and CA have done this for the 20 years I have been in the West. They are trying to keep certain bugs out so if you are carrying plants or produce from certain states it is not allowed. They try to keep on top of what states are having certain pest outbreaks. That is why they ask where you are coming from.
Ultralight
7-13-17, 5:15pm
Rob:
You're basically screwed. I am fairly certain they will arrest you, make you a part of a chain gang, and they will sentence you to build Trump's border wall. And once the wall is built they will punish you with a life sentence of living in America.
Rob:
You're basically screwed. I am fairly certain they will arrest you, make you a part of a chain gang, and they will sentence you to build Trump's border wall. And once the wall is built they will punish you with a life sentence of living in America.
You know your on the watch list being the leader of the 85006.
Ultralight
7-13-17, 5:34pm
They probably think Rob is a Coyote!
They probably think Rob is a Coyote!
i wonder if the NSA is monitoring him?
i wonder if the NSA is monitoring him?
He has a smartphone, they are monitoring him by definition.
Ultralight
7-13-17, 7:10pm
When I worked out in AZ, during the reign of Sheriff Joe, I felt pretty safe -- despite working for a union of Mexican immigrant construction workers, many of which (at the time) had no papers.
Why did I feel safe? Because of El Robbo.
El Robbo was a legend among Mexican immigrants -- including the guys I worked for and with. At the end of the work day we'd all say: "Vaya con El Robbo!"
The "Robbozistas" were a well-known cadre of radicals -- like a modern Robin Hood and his Merry Men. El Robbo led them to steal from the rich and give to the poor.
The Ghost of Tom Joad ain't got nothing on El Robbo de 85006!
If you act nervous they will think you are hiding something. Try to relax.
Ultralight
7-13-17, 7:35pm
If you act nervous they will think you are hiding something. Try to relax. You definitely don't want them to suspect you keistered something, Rob! So just maintain and play it cool!
I get horribly nervous crossing any border, Rob. I always have! My sympathies, and I feel for you.
When I was a little kid, I used to think we were aliens because we had moved from Georgia. They would announce on television that aliens should register each year, and I just knew my parents had forgotten to register, since they were very laid back about things like that.
Does anyone else remember those television ads about "alien registration"? This would have been in the late 50's early 60's.
gimmethesimplelife
7-14-17, 9:32am
I get horribly nervous crossing any border, Rob. I always have! My sympathies, and I feel for you.
When I was a little kid, I used to think we were aliens because we had moved from Georgia. They would announce on television that aliens should register each year, and I just knew my parents had forgotten to register, since they were very laid back about things like that.
Does anyone else remember those television ads about "alien registration"? This would have been in the late 50's early 60's.Thank You, Tybee. I share this with you - I find crossing borders in general to be very nerve wracking. For many years one reason I loved crossing into Mexico had nothing to do with costs or savings or health care - quite simply for many years you would just cross a turnstille (sp?) without interacting with any government official and boom - there you were in Mexico, a foreign country, just like that. That changed in 2013 and now there are officials at the Mexican border.......though last time I crossed in Nogales it was very simple.....just press a button and if the light is green, you enter Mexico - if it is red, your bags get searched. Not a big deal, and nothing like crossing back into the US - but it was so nice while it lasted not to have to deal with a government official to just enter another country. Though I don't know how realistic or practical such is in this world we live in today.
At any rate, I get it.....border crossings are one of my last favorite things to do - I'd much rather be in a dentist's chair in Mexico having an affordable root canal than reenter the US a few hours later...........Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-14-17, 9:35am
You know your on the watch list being the leader of the 85006.I'm not the leader of the 85006 - as I've stated before, in this zip code I am well known due to my activism. Leave the 85006 and I'm nothing.....and I'm certainly no leader of the zip code I live in. Where did you get this from if I may ask? I wouldn't even want to be the leader of the 85006 if such a position existed - I just want to be left alone to engage in activism to make the world a slightly better place. That's it, that's all. No wishes for power here. Rob
freshstart
7-14-17, 9:39am
welp, we never heard how it went
gimmethesimplelife
7-14-17, 9:47am
Rob:
You're basically screwed. I am fairly certain they will arrest you, make you a part of a chain gang, and they will sentence you to build Trump's border wall. And once the wall is built they will punish you with a life sentence of living in America.I seriously doubt such would happen. What I am worried about is being interrogated and potentially detained for refusal to hand over passwords to social media accounts - something the US CBP has been having a field day with since Trump was sworn in. It helps that I am a US Citizen in the sense that there is only so much they can do to me before the ACLU will take the case, and tney have to let me reenter if they choose to harrass me, and it helps that I know the cut off that is accepted as not being excessive for detainments is 12 hours.....keep me detained for 12 hours and one second and I can go the ACLU, social media, and litigation routes.
Something I find very creepy about the US border is that until you are readmitted, you are essentially in a Constitution Free zone and you don't have many rights until you reenter the country and the US CBP has essentially free reign to treat you how they wish with minimal checks and balances on them (if any). But there are a few points that can gain you leverage over them - 1. not being readmitted while holding a valid US passport that truly is yours, and 2. Being detained for one second over 12 hours as a US Citizen. Both or either can gain you some traction, some publicity, and potentially a settlement from the US CBP.
I just wish the border had not become so militarized as it is now that you really need to know these things before crossing. It does help that I speak English as a first language and even more, the fact that I have white skin helps, too. And I know not to take a smartphone with me (a rare exception to my oft repeated rule) as the US CBP has been demanding to download the contents of traveler's smart phones more and more since Trump was sworn in. For you conservatives out there, this did happen under Obama, yes, you are right. But it has increased in scope and intensity since Trump was sworn in and you are better off crossing with a cheap flip phone (I'll be burrowing my Mom's). Also, since it's a short trip, the laptop stays home, and the tablet I bought from Target for 33.33 on Black Friday last year stays home, too. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-14-17, 9:50am
welp, we never heard how it wentI'm not crossing until nest Thursday, July 20th......but I will update
this thread that evening from my husband's relatives place. Hopefully things will go smooth - my real concern as I've stated is reentering the US. Going to Mexico is no big deal for me at all. Rob
Oh, Rob, good luck, seriously. What a nightmare. Travel safe and stay healthy!
gimmethesimplelife
7-14-17, 10:14am
i wonder if the NSA is monitoring him?I rather believe in this one isolated instance America actually is very democratic.....at least in the sense that we are BOTH vulnerable to the NSA. I can't pull the lower income/85006 card on this one - you at your loftier social class position are also vulnerable to the NSA. My take is that this is both insane and oddly enough, fair in a way, too. Fair because such intense governmental overreach should not be based upon social class - the only fair way to overreach is to make everyone vulnerable. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-20-17, 9:55pm
Well, here is an update. I am in Nogales, Mexico right now about to post this so I have not yet crossed and can not as of yet speak of this experience. However, on my way into Mexico, after my friends had parked on the US side and we all walked over, I saw something amazing on the way into Mexico and something that I personally very much approve of.
It used to be for many years that to enter Nogales, you crossed a turnstille and interacted with no government officials to enter. It was just boom, cross this turnstille and there you were in Mexico. Last year Mexico started going through the luggage of some people based on pressing a button on a pseudo traffic light. If you got green, you proceeded into Mexico, no questions asked. If you got red, your bags were searched. This year, no pseudo traffic light and no green equals go or red equals baggage search. This year there is an xray machine after the turnstille and you have to put any bags on it to have them xrayed, but no passport check or questions. I think this is great as so much cash and guns go from the US to Mexico, whereas the opposite direction as we all know feature migrants and drugs getting across the border somehow.
I believe this is a wise step for Mexico. Even I believe in the world we live in today that it is unwise to just let people cross a turnstille and let them in just that easily. What is even nicer is that Mexico, as of yet, does not take it too far as the US does, but who knows, maybe that day is coming. Update on my border crossing will come tomorrow once I get home to Phoenix. Rob
ToomuchStuff
7-20-17, 10:54pm
Be interesting to see your experience with real, not imagined entry and if you apologize for blowing things out of proportion.
I think this is great as so much cash and guns go from the US to Mexico, ...
"So much" guns go from the US to Mexico? So, all those fully-automatic weapons, grenades, RPGs and such are being smuggled in from the US side? Mind you, such things aren't commonly-available for civilian ownership or sales, and when they are, special background checks must be passed, special and expensive licenses issued, and the weapons themselves are ferociously expensive.
Whereas fully-automatic weapons sourced from countries *elsewhere*, countries Mexico does business with, are several orders of magnitude less expensive.
Perhaps the Mexicans need some sort of trade consultants?
gimmethesimplelife
7-21-17, 6:49am
Be interesting to see your experience with real, not imagined entry and if you apologize for blowing things out of proportion.Apologize, not possible in this karma. While it is possible that I may emerge emerged unscathed from this experience, crossing my fingers, there are many documented cases of US CBP going too far and breaking the law via harrassment and excessive detainment with no access to communications devices, bathrooms, or food for their victims, much like any third world country that Americans might look down on. No can apologize.....I live in a zip code where too many have had nasty issues with US CBP while in the country completely legally. But I am of cource hoping for the best with this border crossing. I do have white skin so this much is on my side with the racist US CBP, and I do speak fluent English and I also dont intimidate for any government official. I do not escalate things, either, but I do not intimidate. Best is saying as litttle as possible and remembering everything wrong with this country and looking them right in the eye while remembering it. Rob
Tomorrow, I will be passing through the checkout line at the grocery store. So many dark thoughts fill my mind of the risks we take in this living Hell we call America. Will they reject my coupons? Is that clerk an undercover NSA asset monitoring my choice of cheese spread? Do tarantulas lurk in the bananas? Will I make the wrong call on "paper or plastic" and be savagely beaten or even murdered with impunity by unaccountable bag boys?
If I don't make it, tell my wife I love her.
iris lilies
7-21-17, 8:51am
Tomorrow, I will be passing through the checkout line at the grocery store. So many dark thoughts fill my mind of the risks we take in this living Hell we call America. Will they reject my coupons? Is that clerk an undercover NSA asset monitoring my choice of cheese spread? Do tarantulas lurk in the bananas? Will I make the wrong call on "paper or plastic" and be savagely beaten or even murdered with impunity by unaccountable bag boys?
If I don't make it, tell my wife I love her.
Haha!
well, we can joke, but in these Trump times those checkout lanes are becoming daunting.They are collecting citizen information at an alarming rate. What is your email? What is your phone number? Do you have a rewards card? Do you want Notification of sales? Weekly? Dailey?
and on and on. It is harassment meant to intimidate, I am convinced.
Just remember that the cbp has more power than your local police. And that stretches to 100 miles from the border.
so far I have had no problem. And sometimes I even fly less than a 100 miles from Cuba. I do need to purchase a new sticker in case I want to go to the Bahamas. They threaten Some of us small plane pilots with $10,000 fines if we don't follow all the rules correctly. I guess it's expensive if they have to send the fighters up. Otherwise, no big deal.
Haha!
well, we can joke, but in these Trump times those checkout lanes are becoming daunting.They are collecting citizen information at an alarming rate. What is your email? What is your phone number? Do you have a rewards card? Do you want Notification of sales? Weekly? Dailey?
and on and on. It is harassment meant to intimidate, I am convinced.
We get asked for our zip codes also. They must be profiling us by our social class.
They threaten Some of us small plane pilots with $10,000 fines if we don't follow all the rules correctly. I guess it's expensive if they have to send the fighters up. Otherwise, no big deal.
That's about the same ballpark that they hit private boats with if we screw up the border crossing. My neighbor simply forgot to call in when crossing at 2am on a dark and stormy night, even though he has all the fancy-schmancy pre-clearance stuff, and called bright and early the next morning. $15000 fine.
As far as Rob smearing our CBP people with "racist", well, I work with these folks on a very frequent basis as they voluntarily, out of the goodness of their hearts, assist us with marine and air rescues for patients when the weather is bad here. They seem well trained, well equipped, very polite and helpful, and glad to be of service. I've seen them risk their lives to help others.
I don't think much of his opinion, then again I don't give much weight to the opinions of people whose way of thinking is firmly rooted to their 8-year-old self.
For planes crossing the border they really just require us to file a flight plan and call them and give them a time we will be arriving. We also have to land at a airport that has customs. Generally it's no big deal.
The bahamas just want money, you even have to pay to leave.
iris lilies
7-21-17, 9:58am
We get asked for our zip codes also. They must be profiling us by our social class.
Yes,for when the pitchforks come out.
It's easy to be flip when it's not you (or your spouse) who is subject to the whims of a wannabe dictator.
Pastor Niemoller's famous quote is well worth revisiting from time to time.
I hope your return trip is uneventful.
ToomuchStuff
7-21-17, 10:33am
Apologize, not possible in this karma. While it is possible that I may emerge emerged unscathed from this experience, crossing my fingers, there are many documented cases of US CBP going too far and breaking the law via harrassment and excessive detainment with no access to communications devices, bathrooms, or food for their victims, much like any third world country that Americans might look down on. No can apologize.....I live in a zip code where too many have had nasty issues with US CBP while in the country completely legally. But I am of cource hoping for the best with this border crossing. I do have white skin so this much is on my side with the racist US CBP, and I do speak fluent English and I also dont intimidate for any government official. I do not escalate things, either, but I do not intimidate. Best is saying as litttle as possible and remembering everything wrong with this country and looking them right in the eye while remembering it. Rob
You have demanded people here, apologize for things you have perceived to be against you, shouldn't you practice what you preach, when your wrong?
It's easy to be flip when it's not you (or your spouse) who is subject to the whims of a wannabe dictator.
Pastor Niemoller's famous quote is well worth revisiting from time to time.
I hope your return trip is uneventful.
This isn't 1937.
Trump isn't the Fuhrer.
#Resistance isn't the Resistance.
iris lilies
7-21-17, 10:52am
It's easy to be flip when it's not you (or your spouse) who is subject to the whims of a wannabe dictator.
Pastor Niemoller's famous quote is well worth revisiting from time to time.
I hope your return trip is uneventful.
But if it is all so threatening, why doesnt Rob leave? Surely his new spouse has some pull in Mexico. It isnt beyond the pale to wonder if Rob's marriage is a reverse Green Card marriage, the Mexican equivalent given his penchant for moving out of this country. Why not take advantage of that Mexican "in."
Instead, we get constant griping.
Man up. Leave, already.
Safe travels and safe return, Rob.
For planes crossing the border they really just require us to file a flight plan and call them and give them a time we will be arriving. We also have to land at a airport that has customs. Generally it's no big deal.
The bahamas just want money, you even have to pay to leave.
I went to to Paradise Island for my honeymoon and they tried to slap all sorts of fees on my hotel bill when I went to check out. I argued and argued and finally they removed them.
gimmethesimplelife
7-22-17, 8:40am
Well, I'm back. And I'm stunned. I'd love to go on and on about how I was mistreated by US CBP but I am an honest person and will tell it as it is/was. This was the easiest border crossing I have had in years. Seriously. It would fit much better into my narrative were that not the case, true, but it was a very easy and low stress crossing and I'm very grateful for that. One of my friends was grilled excessively (but crossed at a different time and I was not there to see it though I believe them) but I was not. Of course I don't expect similar in the future but it was nice to run across this - not being treated like a criminal and not being asked fifty questions in rapid fire succession in an effort to trip me up and make me nervous.
The last time this happened I point blank stated that I refused to answer questions in this format and that I refused to be intimidated. The officer glared at me and I looked him straight back in the eye, remembering all my fears of the United States and how health care is doled out by social class (at least until ObamaCare and I'd argue this is still the case but the lower classes get a better deal now in the states that Expanded Medicaid) and how the rule of law is applied unequally dependent upon skin color and social class. The officer blinked and looked away first, as the eye contact became very intense but I refused to back down and yield out of respect to all who have ever suffered due to America. It was on the edge of escalating but I kept my cool and refused to be provoked.
That was the time before this time - this time I lucked out and got a human being for a Customs officer and I'm grateful to see that such still exists at the border. So, at any rate, this crossing was easy and low stress with no conflict. Color me grateful for this much. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-22-17, 9:05am
Safe travels and safe return, Rob.Tybee, Thank You for your kindness. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-22-17, 9:06am
It's easy to be flip when it's not you (or your spouse) who is subject to the whims of a wannabe dictator.
Pastor Niemoller's famous quote is well worth revisiting from time to time.
I hope your return trip is uneventful.Thank You, Jane. Rob
Glad to read about the easy crossing.
gimmethesimplelife
7-22-17, 11:35am
But if it is all so threatening, why doesnt Rob leave? Surely his new spouse has some pull in Mexico. It isnt beyond the pale to wonder if Rob's marriage is a reverse Green Card marriage, the Mexican equivalent given his penchant for moving out of this country. Why not take advantage of that Mexican "in."
Instead, we get constant griping.
Man up. Leave, already.IL, IL, IL - if it were anyone else other than you posting this (as I truly believe you mean well and I've posted that many times in the past) I'd be horribly offended. As it is in your case, all I am going to do is state that I married for love and not a reverse green card. I've always had a thing for the Hispanic culture and way of life way before I ever met my husband - this dates back to the first time I fled America to see a Mexican doctor at the age of 12.....I remember being so grateful that Mexico existed, even back then. If you can't understand this, my non-snarky advice to you is to be grateful....something I've learned over the years in the United States is that unless you are in the .05, not even the 1%, you too are vulnerable to the United States - being brutally knocked off your financial perch by forces you have no hope to control. Be glad this has not happened in your case and be glad you are not able to understand the wisdom of my words - please do understand that millions of American citizens exist that DO understand the wisdom of my words, however. There is no snark meant here, just unsolicited life advice from the 85006. To be fair, there is probably life advice you could give me in return that I would be unable to understand as it would not apply in my social class - I get that this street goes two ways, and the fact that I understand that it does? I didn't know this one at 8 or 12 or 14 - I was 38 when this one dawned on me - I was not quick on the uptake on this one as it does not involve direct economic survival to understand this.
About the "Man Up" - no offense meant here, either, OK? I have a blanket policy of "No" when faced with anyone (though it's 95% women in my experience) saying "man up" - I don't do shaming tactics directed on getting me back on the plantation of society. No exceptions, no excuses, no justifications - I don't respond to "man up" period, your answer is a calm, non-snarky "no". No offense meant and perhaps you do not mean it the way I see it as coming across - fair enough. Your answer is still no - as a male (even as a gay male) I am morally obligated to reject terminology such as "man up". No hard feelings, though, OK? I don't meant to offend here, just to explain that this is probably the least effective phrase you could ever use on me. You'd have better luck getting me to sing the praises of turbo charged capitalism (and we all know my take on THAT, don't need to rinse, lather and repeat on this one at this point LOL, do I?) than ever expecting "Man Up" to work on me.
And here's something really cool, as a side note. I have been in touch with some straight men from my high school days I reconnected with after my high school reunion back in October 2014 - one of the talks if you want to call it that was having a guys night out at a cheap pizza place in the 85016 (nicer zip code but not extreme by any means) and that was one of the topics - women and/or society pulling this shaming tactic on men about quote unquote "manning up". I certainly can not speak for all straight men here - this is a tiny subset of straight men, I get that - but this tiny subset also says an automatic blanket "no" when faced with the shaming phrase of "man up" especially coming from a woman/women. For the exact same reasons I give in regards to this.
I just wanted to pass this along as it's unrelated to this board, that's true, but it's something important to the men's rights movement that I am (sort of) a part of - you'all know by now what my main causes are, no need at this time to repeat them. Anyways, IL, no hard feelings, ok? Who knows, perhaps there is male here lurking that will be inspired by my words and google such and learn something - it's possible......Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-22-17, 11:42am
Glad to read about the easy crossing.Thank You, nswef. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-22-17, 11:49am
Just remember that the cbp has more power than your local police. And that stretches to 100 miles from the border.
so far I have had no problem. And sometimes I even fly less than a 100 miles from Cuba. I do need to purchase a new sticker in case I want to go to the Bahamas. They threaten Some of us small plane pilots with $10,000 fines if we don't follow all the rules correctly. I guess it's expensive if they have to send the fighters up. Otherwise, no big deal.Your first sentence? Very much true....and very much scary. But your first sentence aligns perfectly with the present reality of the border. Rob
Teacher Terry
7-22-17, 11:57am
Rob, so glad that it went well and was easy.
gimmethesimplelife
7-22-17, 11:59am
Rob, so glad that it went well and was easy.Thank You, TT. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-22-17, 12:20pm
We get asked for our zip codes also. They must be profiling us by our social class.I too have been asked for my zip code a few times over the past few years at various stores. My standard answer is to put out my hand and ask for $167.50 in return for this information (knowing of course that hell will freeze over before I get a penny, I do this to make a point). When I get that certain look that I get after stating I need $167.50, cashiers tend to just use a zip code at random and get me on my way but once in awhile they will just stare at me and I explain that I don't give away marketing information to a for profit corporation unless there is something in it for me as to renumeration. My hope is that scattered here and there I have helped a person or two to actually THINK. Who knows? I do what I can. Rob
ToomuchStuff
7-22-17, 12:33pm
I see a whole lot of blathering, complaining about a term, a few no's, but no answer as to WHY (you know the actual question) not move to Mexico.
This from an "honest" person who took a job that involved wiretapping, thinks they are a detailed writer and fails to answer that detail.>8)
gimmethesimplelife
7-22-17, 1:13pm
I see a whole lot of blathering, complaining about a term, a few no's, but no answer as to WHY (you know the actual question) not move to Mexico.
This from an "honest" person who took a job that involved wiretapping, thinks they are a detailed writer and fails to answer that detail.>8)Are you capable of understanding this is a two way street? For my part, I see a whole lot of judgement and have since day one of your responding to my posts - not that judgement in and of itself is such a horrible thing, mind you - it's the spirit and tone of it in regards to my posts that is problematic. Honestly? If my posts are so offensive to you, isn't there a blocking feature here? I'm sure Alan would be glad to help you block me if my posts are so upsetting for you and I'd be all for this, too. What possible purpose does it serve for you to read my posts if they rile you up so much? One final remark - Once again, this street goes two ways. Rob
iris lilies
7-22-17, 1:20pm
IL, IL, IL - if it were anyone else other than you posting this (as I truly believe you mean well and I've posted that many times in the past) I'd be horribly offended. As it is in your case, all I am going to do is state that I married for love and not a reverse green card. I've always had a thing for the Hispanic culture and way of life way before I ever met my husband - this dates back to the first time I fled America to see a Mexican doctor at the age of 12.....I remember being so grateful that Mexico existed, even back then. If you can't understand this, my non-snarky advice to you is to be grateful....something I've learned over the years in the United States is that unless you are in the .05, not even the 1%, you too are vulnerable to the United States - being brutally knocked off your financial perch by forces you have no hope to control. Be glad this has not happened in your case and be glad you are not able to understand the wisdom of my words - please do understand that millions of American citizens exist that DO understand the wisdom of my words, however. There is no snark meant here, just unsolicited life advice from the 85006. To be fair, there is probably life advice you could give me in return that I would be unable to understand as it would not apply in my social class - I get that this street goes two ways, and the fact that I understand that it does? I didn't know this one at 8 or 12 or 14 - I was 38 when this one dawned on me - I was not quick on the uptake on this one as it does not involve direct economic survival to understand this.
About the "Man Up" - no offense meant here, either, OK? I have a blanket policy of "No" when faced with anyone (though it's 95% women in my experience) saying "man up" - I don't do shaming tactics directed on getting me back on the plantation of society. No exceptions, no excuses, no justifications - I don't respond to "man up" period, your answer is a calm, non-snarky "no". No offense meant and perhaps you do not mean it the way I see it as coming across - fair enough. Your answer is still no - as a male (even as a gay male) I am morally obligated to reject terminology such as "man up". No hard feelings, though, OK? I don't meant to offend here, just to explain that this is probably the least effective phrase you could ever use on me. You'd have better luck getting me to sing the praises of turbo charged capitalism (and we all know my take on THAT, don't need to rinse, lather and repeat on this one at this point LOL, do I?) than ever expecting "Man Up" to work on me.
And here's something really cool, as a side note. I have been in touch with some straight men from my high school days I reconnected with after my high school reunion back in October 2014 - one of the talks if you want to call it that was having a guys night out at a cheap pizza place in the 85016 (nicer zip code but not extreme by any means) and that was one of the topics - women and/or society pulling this shaming tactic on men about quote unquote "manning up". I certainly can not speak for all straight men here - this is a tiny subset of straight men, I get that - but this tiny subset also says an automatic blanket "no" when faced with the shaming phrase of "man up" especially coming from a woman/women. For the exact same reasons I give in regards to this.
I just wanted to pass this along as it's unrelated to this board, that's true, but it's something important to the men's rights movement that I am (sort of) a part of - you'all know by now what my main causes are, no need at this time to repeat them. Anyways, IL, no hard feelings, ok? Who knows, perhaps there is male here lurking that will be inspired by my words and google such and learn something - it's possible......Rob
Thanks for the lecture.
I suppose "Grow a Pair!" is equally unacceptable.
Too bad, I like both of them. Certainly I can see the sexist tinge of each. But I will say that both phrases are used on a site I frequent which has 99% female participatin, and it is said about females because that is 99% of the subjects we talk aboit. Anyway.
"Put on your big girl panties" is another phrase in the same vein as the other two. It is funny, but now is overused and it is probably time to retire it. I was once in a neighborhood meeting where the alderperson ( note my lack of gender reveal) suggested that some people in the neighborhood needed to put on their big girl panites and accept something that was taking place in the neighborhood. One man stood up and shouted about sexist language and how shocked and angry he was about that, and he stormed out. That guy needed to put on his big boy tightie whities because the female alderman was just being real.
ToomuchStuff
7-22-17, 1:21pm
Are you capable of understanding this is a two way street? For my part, I see a whole lot of judgement and have since day one of your responding to my posts - not that judgement in and of itself is such a horrible thing, mind you - it's the spirit and tone of it in regards to my posts that is problematic. Honestly? If my posts are so offensive to you, isn't there a blocking feature here? I'm sure Alan would be glad to help you block me if my posts are so upsetting for you and I'd be all for this, too. What possible purpose does it serve for you to read my posts if they rile you up so much? One final remark - Once again, this street goes two ways. Rob
Not sure if you have mental issue, but you clearly have a comprehension problem!
Why, is an actual question asked, that you failed to grasp and respond to. You choose to complain about someones use of language.
As for blocking, you have had that explained to you multiple times. By asking for Alan, I think you are hereby asking for him to remedy the problem, which involved the taking away of your moderator title.
If you still don't get that, you need to go click on your user preferences and click on the ignore function. I get that you have stated in other posts, that your not computer literate, and that is a reason that when Alan took ownership of the board, moderators authority to do things was revoked. They did things wrong, that it was screwing up the back end of the forum, and it was facing danger of failure/data/post loss.
Alan, gimme is asking you for his moderator status to be removed here!
ToomuchStuff
7-22-17, 1:25pm
Your request for moderator removal for ignore functions has been passed on to Alan.
gimmethesimplelife
7-22-17, 1:31pm
I see a whole lot of blathering, complaining about a term, a few no's, but no answer as to WHY (you know the actual question) not move to Mexico.
This from an "honest" person who took a job that involved wiretapping, thinks they are a detailed writer and fails to answer that detail.>8)I never took any job that involved wiretapping - at least not in the Nixon era sense of the word. I did however take one secret shopper assignment that involved getting my teeth cleaned for free while using a hidden recording device, completely authorized by the dental facility in which I was secret shopping. As to being a detailed writer - I get very high scores on my secret shop reports, often 10/10, when not, usually 9/10. Maybe I'm not Ernest Hemingway but my command of the English language is adequate, no? I believe most here would agree with this much. As to moving to Mexico - I will remain here as long as my Mother is with us - after that, providing I outlive her - I throw this last in as I've lost several classmates from my high school days already and I know that tomorrow is not guaranteed - and then I will go. We're thinking Querataro....fairly safe and a nice climate and a low cost of living, even for Mexico. Rob
ToomuchStuff
7-22-17, 1:35pm
So you recorded people in the waiting room and any conversations they had at the dental office? What about on the way there or back (did you turn on and off the recorder).
Here, that is legally wiretapping and a crime.
I heard recently the phrase, "Everyone needs to put on their big kid garments." Any way it's phrased the meaning is clear.
ToomuchStuff
7-22-17, 1:47pm
"Put on your big girl panties" is another phrase in the same vein as the other two. It is funny, but now is overused and it is probably time to retire it.
That phrase, has another funny meaning for me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuXGpUR7fXA
gimmethesimplelife
7-22-17, 1:48pm
So you recorded people in the waiting room and any conversations they had at the dental office? What about on the way there or back (did you turn on and off the recorder).
Here, that is legally wiretapping and a crime.Arizona, where I live, is a one party state. Please don't believe me and google this yourself to verify. What one party state essentially means is that you can be recorded in public legally at any time without your knowledge - only only party has to consent, meaning the person recording/videotaping. We could debate for hours the ethics behind this, I will give you that, but the law in Arizona (and other one party states, Arizona is far from the only one party state) is clear. Once again, please don't believe me and google this yourself to verify. Should you have issues with this one party law, this is beyond the scope of my life - please contact the appropriate representatives and voice your stance/concerns. Rob
ToomuchStuff
7-22-17, 1:57pm
I remember that thread. You decided not to answer anymore when it was brought up that the doctors office isn't public, but a private office where patients have a right to privacy and Hipaa expectations.
You still recorded.
gimmethesimplelife
7-22-17, 2:01pm
I remember that thread. You decided not to answer anymore when it was brought up that the doctors office isn't public, but a private office where patients have a right to privacy and Hipaa expectations.
You still recorded.And such is still legal in Arizona. Once again, please google this to verify from a source other than myself. At this point I am going to cease responding to your posts as we seem to go in circles with nothing resolved. Out of respect to the other posters here I will cease responding to your posts from this point forward. My take is that such is for the best for all of us and more than that, for the board itself. Rob
Step down from your moderator role, Rob.
Teacher Terry
7-22-17, 2:23pm
Rob has repeatedly said before that he is staying here until his Mom is gone. This question has been asked and answered before.
ToomuchStuff
7-22-17, 2:27pm
Step down from your moderator role, Rob.
He has asked Alan for help here, doing that, (I know he has posted about being computer illiterate in the past) and his post (#50) was submitted to Alan.
The relevant quote " If my posts are so offensive to you, isn't there a blocking feature here? I'm sure Alan would be glad to help you block me if my posts are so upsetting for you and I'd be all for this, too. "
So Alan should be removing his moderator title, for the blocking feature to work soon.
ToomuchStuff
7-22-17, 2:28pm
Rob has repeatedly said before that he is staying here until his Mom is gone. This question has been asked and answered before.
Mexico isn't that far away, with how often he has gone to visit there, it would seem close enough to do the reverse, obviously.
Teacher Terry
7-22-17, 2:40pm
His Mom is elderly and I think she lives in the same town. It is much easier to help when someone lives in the same town versus another country. My sibs and i found that when my Mom was in her last few years of her life we frequently had to take turns staying with her for up to a month at a time. I think he is an only child which puts even more responsibility on him.
The last time this happened I point blank stated that I refused to answer questions in this format and that I refused to be intimidated. The officer glared at me and I looked him straight back in the eye, remembering all my fears of the United States and how health care is doled out by social class (at least until ObamaCare and I'd argue this is still the case but the lower classes get a better deal now in the states that Expanded Medicaid) and how the rule of law is applied unequally dependent upon skin color and social class. The officer blinked and looked away first, as the eye contact became very intense but I refused to back down and yield out of respect to all who have ever suffered due to America. It was on the edge of escalating but I kept my cool and refused to be provoked.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/0lGyZpbA_tY/maxresdefault.jpg
My daughter just this morning cleared US customs/immigration, and says it took her < 5 minutes. Interestingly, they did it all on the foreign end, in Shannon, to make thing simpler for returning citizens.
My brother and I aroused suspicion returning from a college trip to Europe because we packed light and did not buy a bunch of souvenirs. But our simple selves made it in.
gimmethesimplelife
7-22-17, 3:25pm
His Mom is elderly and I think she lives in the same town. It is much easier to help when someone lives in the same town versus another country. My sibs and i found that when my Mom was in her last few years of her life we frequently had to take turns staying with her for up to a month at a time. I think he is an only child which puts even more responsibility on him.Thank You for understanding, TT. I appreciate this. Rob
Teacher Terry
7-22-17, 4:07pm
Rob, I totally understand because my Mom wanted to stay in her own apartment and as she battled cancer and would have a few weeks or month at a time that she could not be left alone. My 2 sibs were retired but none of us lived in the same town. They stayed with her a lot more then me because I was working but I would go for up to 2 weeks at a time. However, traveling is an extra cost and it was my sister that could get there quickly if needed being only an hour away. She was s wonderful Mom and we all wanted to help. She got to stay in her own place until a week before she died. She was a tough woman.
Toomuchstuff - I don't understand why you are so hostile towards Rob. You come across a bit unhinged and very ANGRY. I can't imagine that Rob is the cause of your anger. Maybe you need some help?
Rob - I'm amazed that you continue to be civil and earnest with people who continually attack you in snide and petty ways. You are a more caring and compassionate person than many.
Bae and Iris Lilies - Would it kill you to be kind towards another human being who sees the world in a different way than you do? It gets tiring to see the constant in group belittling of the designated 'black sheep' on the forums. High school was so long ago, do we have to keep rehashing it? Aren't we too old for this?
iris lilies
7-23-17, 12:44am
Toomuchstuff - I don't understand why you are so hostile towards Rob. You come across a bit unhinged and very ANGRY. I can't imagine that Rob is the cause of your anger. Maybe you need some help?
Rob - I'm amazed that you continue to be civil and earnest with people who continually attack you in snide and petty ways. You are a more caring and compassionate person than many.
Bae and Iris Lilies - Would it kill you to be kind towards another human being who sees the world in a different way than you do? It gets tiring to see the constant in group belittling of the designated 'black sheep' on the forums. High school was so long ago, do we have to keep rehashing it? Aren't we too old for this?
Rob continues to bring up incendiary topics because he gets something out of it. I can think of a couple of things he gets out of it. Can you?
Bae and Iris Lilies - Would it kill you to be kind towards another human being who sees the world in a different way than you do?
It is in general not "kind" to be supportive of someone's delusional perception of the world.
ToomuchStuff
7-23-17, 1:56am
Toomuchstuff Maybe you need some help?
LOL, I said the same thing to Rob.
OK, so Rob, Alan, you two get together and show me how to ad Gimme to the ignore function!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please post images here, so others will know as well.
Rob, IMO anyway, has given a very different perception of the world as seen through his eyes. We may not like it but we are not walking in his shoes. Others may have very different life experiences.
TMS, it is easy to add to the 'ignore' list. I have done so for my peace of mind and to protect this site from my irritation with a member's posts.
Go to Settings (see top right of screen), scroll down to the 'edit ignore list' and add whoever you wish. It works well.
Razz, it was my impression that you could not "ignore" someone if he or she was a moderator, that the function would not work in that instance?
t is in general not "kind" to be supportive of someone's delusional perception of the world.
With all due respect Bae: you are an educated, wealthy man. Your hard work and good luck have given you many opportunities. You don't have to work. You could live wherever you want to, without regard to cost. Your day to day reality is different than many others. How can you say someone else's reality is a delusion? Granted, I do think some people like to play the victim role, and some people are more pessimistic than others. I do agree that we all shape our own reality to a point, but there are often also concrete circumstances/barriers that positive thinking alone isn't going to fix.
gimmethesimplelife
7-23-17, 8:18am
Toomuchstuff - I don't understand why you are so hostile towards Rob. You come across a bit unhinged and very ANGRY. I can't imagine that Rob is the cause of your anger. Maybe you need some help?
Rob - I'm amazed that you continue to be civil and earnest with people who continually attack you in snide and petty ways. You are a more caring and compassionate person than many.
Bae and Iris Lilies - Would it kill you to be kind towards another human being who sees the world in a different way than you do? It gets tiring to see the constant in group belittling of the designated 'black sheep' on the forums. High school was so long ago, do we have to keep rehashing it? Aren't we too old for this?Geila, all I can say is Thank You and Wow. Being a moderator I won't name any names here but you have said things I would like to say to people I would like to say it to, and in a civil, non-threatening way. Thank You so much! As to one of your comments, yes, to me personally, and I don't speak for others here, this board sometimes appears as if a popularity contest in high school. It's almost a comical caricature of high school - sometimes. Not always. I guess it's no great surprise for me that high school - those years were a struggle for economic survival for me. I never had the chance to worry about anything vain and surface like popularity - something that when life is about survival really doesn't matter - something like popularity to me is something for those with economic stability to worry about. It's something I see as beyond my ability to afford so I don't bother with it. Maybe this what I've posted here might help some to understand where I am coming from. I also don't post anything to incite or for reactions - I am very sincere in everything I post. For me life has not been like the lives of some of the regular posters here who seem to have a problem with me, and at this point, we all know those I refer to, there's no need to name any names.
I can remember in college someone telling me - a poor kid on a full scholarship - to be very careful who I spoke to and who I interacted with and to never be quite honest with anyone. Reason? Their reason was that one of the hardest things you can ever try to do is to bump up through the social classes. I found that very true myself when I have attempted to take office jobs before, which for me were always a fiasco. If anyone has wondered why I chose to wait tables/work banquets even though I do hold a BSBA in Marketing from NAU, in this line of work such is not an issue. You get to be who you are much more in food and beverage than in an office job - provided that no guests complain about you and that you maintain on the floor. Once you walk through the other side of the door into the back of the house you get to be human and who you really are - unlike in office work where such is not possible. It's very important for me to be real and human, qualities I believe I have brought to this board, though my reality obviously is not everyone else's. It's a bit of disappointment to me, honestly, as my take here is that diversity of opinion is not respected by all - by many, yes, but not by all - and we know who I am talking about. There is no need to be catty and call out names.
As to stepping down as a moderator - I'm not against doing so, if it's for the good of the board. The only reason I have not sent Alan an PM voicing a wish to do so is that this board in it's own way is very much like high school - such has been my experience, and, as in my high school days, I don't do intimidation by those who haven't had the same issues I have. And I never have - I've always been this way, very honest and very to the point, and quite able to hold beliefs that others around me don't care for. Tough bikkies as someone I know from Australia always used to say (Tough Biscuits) Something else - with economic inequality in the United States only rising - my voice is not the only voice that states such. Far from it. There can't be this level of inequality without people like me as result.....that's just how that one goes. Rob
PS And I got a little sidetracked here - Geila, once again, Thank You. There are some decent understanding people out there and I Thank You for reminding me of this.
gimmethesimplelife
7-23-17, 8:22am
With all due respect Bae: you are an educated, wealthy man. Your hard work and good luck have given you many opportunities. You don't have to work. You could live wherever you want to, without regard to cost. Your day to day reality is different than many others. How can you say someone else's reality is a delusion? Granted, I do think some people like to play the victim role, and some people are more pessimistic than others. I do agree that we all shape our own reality to a point, but there are often also concrete circumstances/barriers that positive thinking alone isn't going to fix.Thank You for your understanding here, Herbgeek. I really appreciate it. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-23-17, 8:25am
Razz, it was my impression that you could not "ignore" someone if he or she was a moderator, that the function would not work in that instance?OK. Maybe someone has tried to explain this to me before but it has not sunk in until now. I was not aware that you could not ignore a moderator? If this is the case I am more willing to step down for the good of the board then. I'm not going to change to be quite frank with you'all but on the other hand, if things are set up so that someone who finds me something they don't wish to deal with and can't ignore me just because I am a moderator, I can see that stepping down might be a good idea as I truly do care about the board and I'm not here to incite or cause a ruckus. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-23-17, 8:28am
Rob, IMO anyway, has given a very different perception of the world as seen through his eyes. We may not like it but we are not walking in his shoes. Others may have very different life experiences.
TMS, it is easy to add to the 'ignore' list. I have done so for my peace of mind and to protect this site from my irritation with a member's posts.
Go to Settings (see top right of screen), scroll down to the 'edit ignore list' and add whoever you wish. It works well.Thank You for showing some understanding, Razz. I appreciate it. As to the blocking feature, I don't know but it is true that I can't be blocked as a moderator? It seems only fair that for those I am too much for - those folks should get the option to block me if they so wish. I have no problem with that, I only post this as I'm hearing that I can't be blocked as a moderator. Thanks again for your understanding btw. Rob
PS I came back to add - this street goes two ways. One of the perks of stepping down would be that I - yes, I - get to block a few folks here I'd personally rather not hear from, either. As a moderator, I don't feel it is right to do so, but that's just my take. As a regular participant, I'd have no problem blocking a few people here myself, who of course will remain unnamed. Rob
rosarugosa
7-23-17, 9:03am
In real life I've found it is possible to ignore people without an "ignore button." The more homogeneous we are as a group, the less interesting our discussions are likely to be. I enjoy a bit of diversity here, and I find that Rob is always civil and brings some different viewpoints to the forum. I'm glad to have you here Rob. I find you to be genuine and sincere, and we don't need to agree on everything. Like Geila, I am taken aback when folks snipe at each other like adolescents.
I find it easy to ignore...no button needed, just don't read the post. I enjoy the different viewpoints on this board and I often think about where other people get their ideas and feelings. sometimes I roll my eyes, but no one can see that! Seeing only words, not hearing the intonations makes misunderstandings more frequent, so I try to not react immediately.
Thank You for showing some understanding, Razz. I appreciate it. As to the blocking feature, I don't know but it is true that I can't be blocked as a moderator? It seems only fair that for those I am too much for - those folks should get the option to block me if they so wish. I have no problem with that, I only post this as I'm hearing that I can't be blocked as a moderator. Thanks again for your understanding btw. Rob
PS I came back to add - this street goes two ways. One of the perks of stepping down would be that I - yes, I - get to block a few folks here I'd personally rather not hear from, either. As a moderator, I don't feel it is right to do so, but that's just my take. As a regular participant, I'd have no problem blocking a few people here myself, who of course will remain unnamed. Rob
Rob, don't take my word about the blocking function--I was just inferring that from previous conversations and I might not be correct about that. Maybe Alan could speak to whether a moderator can be blocked, so we know for sure?
I think that it's a good function for those who want to use it, but I really hate the sniping and hate it when people on the forum talk about each other in the third person and assert things about others, rather than speaking directly to them. That seems incredibly rude to me, that people start talking about others as though they were not present, and I wish people would stop doing that. And I very much like the way you directly address those who engage with you, and you are unfailingly polite, thank you. And I know you and I have disagreed on some things and agreed on others, but we are a family here, I feel, and should treat each other kindly and with respect.
Just my two cents, but please check about the blocking of moderators--that was my guess but I am not an expert, lol.
The Ignore feature cannot be used on Moderators or Administrators.
Any moderators or administrators wishing to be ignored, please let me know.
gimmethesimplelife
7-23-17, 10:15am
The Ignore feature cannot be used on Moderators or Administrators.
Any moderators or administrators wishing to be ignored, please let me know.OK then, so now we all know. Why don't I just step down then and become a civilian? This way those who wish to block me can and I can also block a few folks myself. Problem solved. So, to be clear, I publicly step down. I trust that Alan will work his magic and make this change soon and those who wish to not hear from me will soon have their wish. I also trust Alan will make it clear when this change has been effected. Rob
So, to be clear, I publicly step down. I trust that Alan will work his magic and make this change soon and those who wish to not hear from me will soon have their wish. Rob
Done!
gimmethesimplelife
7-23-17, 10:22am
Done!Thank You. No snark - Thank You. Rob
One note on the Ignore feature. If another poster quotes a poster you have ignored, you'll still see the quoted part of their post.
When we went through this discussion some years ago, people claimed that the Ignore feature didn't work because they could still see some of their nemesis's posts when quoted by others.
Before anyone complains, please know that is how it works and you'll have to put a little more effort into your ignoring.
Thank you for the instructions Razz.
gimmethesimplelife
7-23-17, 11:07am
Thank you for the instructions Razz.Yes, Thank You. I have went ahead a blocked a few folks myself based on these instructions. I see Alan has brought up a caveat on the blocking feature but.....I'm hoping it works on an everyday level for the most part. Glad to get this resolved for the good of the board. With this I'm moving on from this topic. Rob
ApatheticNoMore
7-23-17, 11:17am
anyone has wondered why I chose to wait tables/work banquets even though I do hold a BSBA in Marketing from NAU, in this line of work such is not an issue. You get to be who you are much more in food and beverage than in an office job - provided that no guests complain about you and that you maintain on the floor. Once you walk through the other side of the door into the back of the house you get to be human and who you really are - unlike in office work where such is not possible. It's very important for me to be real and human, qualities I believe I have brought to this board, though my reality obviously is not everyone else's. It's a bit of disappointment to me, honestly, as my take here is that diversity of opinion is not respected by all - by many, yes, but not by all - and we know who I am talking about. There is no need to be catty and call out names.
if it's really a choice it seems you don't get to complain about it paying less than office jobs (if it does). Of course if you are just incapable of doing an office job then you are just incapable (sometimes introverts simply can't do an extremely extroverted job, or people seem lack the most basic aptitude for a certain line of work, and it's not just a matter of preference *because* they actually do the job badly - and well doing a job badly leads to getting fired eventually, and people learn what they can't do the hard way in that case - assuming they really wanted to do well of course but were just failing and flailing because they simply couldn't).
Unless you are talking about being discriminated against for being gay, that might at one time have been more acceptable in food and beverage maybe, I have no idea, about the only place there's still open discrimination now as far as I can tell is blue collar stuff like construction (people call each other gay slurs all day long apparently - a rough crowd - so yes you can call that "honest" if honest is admitted at work things like you support the KKK! Meanwhile offices are doing the yearly training about avoiding creating a hostile work environments etc.). Though I think you are quite simply wrong about not being able to be who you are once you leave an office, yes some jobs might require a lot of working from home but others don't (seems more the exception to have a lot of overtime than the rule but of course it exists...).
Thank you for the instructions Razz.
There's an even easier way:
Click on the offending members name, then 'View Profile'
On the members profile page, click on 'Add to Ignore List'.
Easy Peasy!
Rob continues to bring up incendiary topics because he gets something out of it. I can think of a couple of things he gets out of it. Can you?
What you read as incendiary, I read as a person experiencing some concern, apprehension, and perhaps anxiety about an upcoming event. And I see a person posting about it here in an effort to alleviate those feelings. The fact that the event would not cause concern for you does not mean that the person's concern is invalid. And it certainly does not give you or others license to mock him for his feelings.
We all have our own fears and insecurities that might seem unfounded, exaggerated or silly to others. I'm afraid of heights and I'm claustrophobic. Does that make my genuine fear in those circumstances illegitimate, and therefore cause for ridicule?
Some people also have PTSD or PTSD symptoms arising from traumatic events. I can't imagine mocking someone for it. Compassion and kindness seems the logical adult response. Making fun of someone who is hurting is behavior that you typically see in very small children who have not yet learned how to respect the feelings of others or the ability to empathize with another person's pain.
Rob, I'm sorry to see that you have stepped down from the role of moderator. But if it makes your life easier, then that's a good thing! :)
iris lilies
7-23-17, 11:40am
What you read as incendiary, I read as a person experiencing some concern, apprehension, and perhaps anxiety about an upcoming event. And I see a person posting about it here in an effort to alleviate those feelings. The fact that the event would not cause concern for you does not mean that the person's concern is invalid. And it certainly does not give you or others license to mock him for his feelings.
We all have our own fears and insecurities that might seem unfounded, exaggerated or silly to others. I'm afraid of heights and I'm claustrophobic. Does that make my genuine fear in those circumstances illegitimate, and therefore cause for ridicule?
Some people also have PTSD or PTSD symptoms arising from traumatic events. I can't imagine mocking someone for it. Compassion and kindness seems the logical adult response. Making fun of someone who is hurting is behavior that you typically see in very small children who have not yet learned how to respect the feelings of others or the ability to empathize with another person's pain.
Ok, you have valid points, but you are emphasizing the wrong things, in my viewpoint of course. It aint about feelings, people are going to feel the way they feel. Feelings are feelings. We feel our feelz.
What you do with the feelings, the action that you take, that is a different thing. It is the thing that counts, to me anyway.
Ok, you have valid points, but you are emphasizing the wrong things, in my viewpoint of course. It aint about feelings, people are going to feel the way they feel. Feelings are feelings. We feel our feelz.
What you do with the feelings, the action that you take, that is a different thing. It is the thing that counts, to me anyway.
Right, this is your opinion, or judgment, of what the right and wrong things are. I hope you can understand that it doesn't make it a universal fact, it just makes it one person's opinion. And your opinion is not more important or valid than anyone else's.
Teacher Terry
7-23-17, 11:54am
Rob, people need to be able to feel comfortable and fit into their work environment. When people obtain career counseling this is one part that is often ignored. My ex had a BA and MS in Math and could teach yet he hated teaching and working in an office. He quickly realized that the factory work he did to put himself through college was what he liked doing. He is an extreme introvert. So he retrained to become a tool & dye maker. He loved it and made great $. I have some times on this board let my feelings get the best of me and have been unkind and am working on changing that.
ApatheticNoMore
7-23-17, 12:03pm
All work environments suck (some more than others), work sucks, that's the reality, everyone already knows it really. The only question is can one endure the suck for the paycheck pretty much ... if one needs that paycheck.
Teacher Terry
7-23-17, 12:07pm
WEll I for one loved my career. Yes at times the bureaucracy sucked but at times the leadership was great. My ex loved his work also. My DH loves his career and as far as the work environment it has ranged from good to bad. Right now I work p.t. at home doing something I never did until 4 years ago and I totally love it!
ApatheticNoMore
7-23-17, 12:08pm
I think people who claim to like their work are for the most part really good at lying to themselves :P I mean yea endure it as best one can sure, but no point in pretending one loves it. "oh yes boss, I so love meeting your every whim ..."
Teacher Terry
7-23-17, 12:14pm
The reason many people hate their work is because they needed $ so took a job and then just kept doing the same kind of work without looking at what they wanted to do. When I was in grad school the studies bear this out. I trained for many years to do something I wanted to do. I also picked my career in my thirties so was more mature. We were lucky that we were frugal and my ex worked a lot of overtime so we could pay cash for my college and then in grad school I got scholarships, etc because my grades were so good. In my early 20's I did clerical work which I did not love. I decided that I was not going to spend my life doing something I did not want to do. I am still teaching my college class at 63 because I love it. The best feeling in the world is when I get a email from a student thanking me for working with them and helping them to succeed.
iris lilies
7-23-17, 12:15pm
Right, this is your opinion, or judgment, of what the right and wrong things are. I hope you can understand that it doesn't make it a universal fact, it just makes it one person's opinion. And your opinion is not more important or valid than anyone else's.
Sure, it is my opinion. Opinion isnt fact.
But there are plenty of opinions that are not valid. Leaving Rob's POV aside for the moment, surely you will admit that there are opinions that have no validity. Those are crank ideas. The opinion that "We Never Went to the Moon" (one of the most requested titles in my library's holdings) is one such crank idea.
There are many political opinions I dont hold but can respect. They are valid, just not mine. Those other opinions come about because the holder of those opinons emphasize different aspects of life than those I emphsize. But then, there are the fringe lunitic ideas that do not deserve to be respected.
ApatheticNoMore
7-23-17, 12:23pm
the reason many people hate their work is because they needed $ so took a job and then just kept doing the same kind of work without looking at what they wanted to do.
they may decide it's simply not worth a decade of working full time and going to school to get anything better, which is in reality about the only way for it to happen, is to do the hour or two of commute to work, working 40 or more hours a week, and night school. And maybe work is just not that important (sacrilege!), that better work should preclude a social life (and let's be honest while they might be able to work full time and take one class at a time and have a social life - and that will be a decade or quite possibly more - anymore classes than that at a time and they won't) , because maybe a social life is actually more beneficial in some ways. And that's assuming the better work is actually better, which isn't something one can know entirely ahead of time either, it's a bet that it will be better that actual experience could still show otherwise.
Teacher Terry
7-23-17, 12:29pm
Going to college is a lot of work and many people do not want to do the work that is involved. So they complain about their job. Ever since my kids have grown up I have a great social life. I had less of one when they were young because they kept me busy when not going to college or working. IL: one of the craziest things is when people say the shooting that killed those small kids did not happen. M. Kelly interviewed this guy about it and I did not watch it because it is just stupid.
ApatheticNoMore
7-23-17, 12:34pm
So make yourself completely dead inside to pursue abstract goals pretty much (but you can call the feelings of deadness "working hard for goals").
iris lilies
7-23-17, 12:41pm
So make yourself completely dead inside to pursue abstract goals pretty much (but you can call the feelings of deadness "working hard for goals").
Or, you can actually enjoy the work you do. Thats another option. Here, "you" is the generic you.
Teacher Terry
7-23-17, 12:41pm
Being a victim is not my cup of tea!
iris lilies
7-23-17, 12:43pm
Going to college is a lot of work and many people do not want to do the work that is involved. So they complain about their job. Ever since my kids have grown up I have a great social life. I had less of one when they were young because they kept me busy when not going to college or working. IL: one of the craziest things is when people say the shooting that killed those small kids did not happen. M. Kelly interviewed this guy about it and I did not watch it because it is just stupid.
yes, that is another crank opinion that does not deserve respect. The Westboro Baptist Church people, another crank group (although now completely understandable, its all about the money.)
ApatheticNoMore
7-23-17, 12:46pm
being self-righteous is not my cup of tea! Probably is on most people's list of most irritating traits. Victim hood or self-righteousness while both might be irritating the later is more so.
Teacher Terry
7-23-17, 1:10pm
IL: the first time I lived in KS and saw them picketing when we went to Topeka for a meeting. I had no clue who they were but that was in 1993. They were picketing a serviceman's funeral. I thought how sad for the family. ANM: if working hard and persistently towards a goal is self-righteous then I am guilty.
iris lilies
7-23-17, 1:39pm
being self-righteous is not my cup of tea! Probably is on most people's list of most irritating traits. Victim hood or self-righteousness while both might be irritating the later is more so.
To me, they are ot equal, victimhood takes the lead in annoyingness. I know that I "hear" victimhood louder and quicker than the other.
I can think of a few times in my life when I was shocked by someone, and I recoiled, when that someone approached me as a victim when hearing my complaint about some dumb thing. To me,I was just expressing a vent as a capable adult person in charge of my own well being, and they treated me as " poor little you."
They weren't wrong, they just mis read me. They were well intentioned but Ick.
Or, you can actually enjoy the work you do.
I actually enjoy the work I do. But I work in a corporate environment, complete with fad of the month/year. When I actually get to do my job without management interference, time just flies, my teams are happy, I feel productive. But that is a rarity. Maybe libraries are different, more staid? So even when you find a job you enjoy, with people you enjoy, other factors can come in and f that up.
I won't put anyone on a ignore list, no one bothers me that much. I can always just skip over their post if I really wanted to.
And as far as liking your work. My wife puts quite a few hours in at the club as a board member and doesn't get paid a cent. So she must like it. And it's defiantly a job.
gimmethesimplelife
7-23-17, 6:37pm
Here's something I have discovered about the blocking feature, just an FYI for anyone interested (?) If you block someone (as I have, stated only so that you'all know I have a reason to post this) and check on new posts without signing in, whoever you blocked - their posts will show up. Just an FYI. I will be signing in before checking new posts for awhile......so that those who I blocked? I won't see their posts this way. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-23-17, 6:43pm
Rob, I'm sorry to see that you have stepped down from the role of moderator. But if it makes your life easier, then that's a good thing! :)Thank You, Geila. I believe it's best for the board, and anyway, I've been in the role for some time, anyway, I think since 2011 or so? Even if there were no issues it might be wise to rotate folks every now and then, no? At any rate, it's nice to see some support here from various folks and I do appreciate that. I will continue to post in my style - but now those you don't care for my posts have an easy way to avoid ever seeing my pixels, and I theirs. At this point I'd say this is for the best, though it's indeed been interesting filling the role of forum pinata/forum black sheep. But I've had my fill of this role - time for someone else to fill these shoes. Rob
I'm bummed that things have regressed so far that Rob had to demote himself. I really enjoy the differences of opinion here. We have one thing in common--the desire to simplify our lives and live true to our values--and everything else is a wild card. I love the fact that we represent different ideologies, political parties, and ends of the scale economically. (I wish we had more racial and ethnic diversity but maybe voluntary simplicity is a white man's sport).
gimmethesimplelife
7-23-17, 6:53pm
What you read as incendiary, I read as a person experiencing some concern, apprehension, and perhaps anxiety about an upcoming event. And I see a person posting about it here in an effort to alleviate those feelings. The fact that the event would not cause concern for you does not mean that the person's concern is invalid. And it certainly does not give you or others license to mock him for his feelings.
We all have our own fears and insecurities that might seem unfounded, exaggerated or silly to others. I'm afraid of heights and I'm claustrophobic. Does that make my genuine fear in those circumstances illegitimate, and therefore cause for ridicule?
Some people also have PTSD or PTSD symptoms arising from traumatic events. I can't imagine mocking someone for it. Compassion and kindness seems the logical adult response. Making fun of someone who is hurting is behavior that you typically see in very small children who have not yet learned how to respect the feelings of others or the ability to empathize with another person's pain.I completely agree with your take here. And your first paragraph is an accurate summary of why I posted this topic about my apprehension of crossing the border (back to the US, I mean) in the first place. I live in an area (we've all heard me repeat my zip code enough now) where there are people who have dealt with over the top nastiness and aggression and borderline or actual illegal behavior from US CBP - this is not a far fetched out there scenario for someone in my neighborhood, and my fears re: crossing back into the US are far from unfounded. This is reality in my zip code, and that's not going to go away or change because there are those who would rather deny this reality or sweep it under the rug. But....it's not for me to change people mind's nor am I responsible for doing such. Something positive here is that there are some kind, supportive, decent people here - I'd rather focus on that and move forward and block the various (how do I say this civilly but yet get the point across in a non-mistakable way?) sources of conflict/negativity/strife. Works for me.
Funny thing is now that I've stepped down and I don't have to watch the language quite as much, I feel compelled to watch my language even more LOL. Not sure what that's about - I'm guessing it's compensation for how a few folks have treated me during my gig as a mod here. At any rate.....thanks for the support Geila, I really do appreciate it. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-23-17, 7:02pm
I'm bummed that things have regressed so far that Rob had to demote himself. I really enjoy the differences of opinion here. We have one thing in common--the desire to simplify our lives and live true to our values--and everything else is a wild card. I love the fact that we represent different ideologies, political parties, and ends of the scale economically. (I wish we had more racial and ethnic diversity but maybe voluntary simplicity is a white man's sport).Catherine, Thank You for the support. I am not trashing you in the slightest here by what I am about to post. I just wish to clarify if I may? I don't feel so much that I "had" to demote myself. No one forced me to - no one on the mod team or Alan sent any behind the scenes emails asking or demanding that I step down. I did so because of the issue with folks that don't care to read my pixels were unable to block me due to my being a mod. I'm guessing this is built into the software here (?). I'm sure Alan would be able to explain this much better that I ever could.
I consider myself a very tough person overall - I've been through quite a bit in my 50 years. But here I'm going to admit I was getting tired of the attacks and snarkiness and unpleasantness. As I said before stepping down, this is a two way street and there are several folks I have joyfully blocked and I hope they have done the same for me - the idea makes my smile and offends me not in the slightest. I maintain that although some of what I have posted is not easy to deal with/may be a bit controversial for those more economically stable/set - I also maintained respect and class and decorum while I was in the role regardless. I'd go so far as to say a few who habitually disagree with me did not. Whatever. Now we can block each other to our heart's content.
Once again, Thank You, Catherine. And I agree with you - I wish we had more diversity here, too. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-23-17, 7:04pm
In real life I've found it is possible to ignore people without an "ignore button." The more homogeneous we are as a group, the less interesting our discussions are likely to be. I enjoy a bit of diversity here, and I find that Rob is always civil and brings some different viewpoints to the forum. I'm glad to have you here Rob. I find you to be genuine and sincere, and we don't need to agree on everything. Like Geila, I am taken aback when folks snipe at each other like adolescents.Thank You, Rosarugosa. What a nice compliment, I really appreciate it. Rob
iris lilies
7-23-17, 7:04pm
I'm bummed that things have regressed so far that Rob had to demote himself. I really enjoy the differences of opinion here. We have one thing in common--the desire to simplify our lives and live true to our values--and everything else is a wild card. I love the fact that we represent different ideologies, political parties, and ends of the scale economically. (I wish we had more racial and ethnic diversity but maybe voluntary simplicity is a white man's sport).
What do you think " Moderators" actually do here?
gimmethesimplelife
7-23-17, 7:11pm
Rob, people need to be able to feel comfortable and fit into their work environment. When people obtain career counseling this is one part that is often ignored. My ex had a BA and MS in Math and could teach yet he hated teaching and working in an office. He quickly realized that the factory work he did to put himself through college was what he liked doing. He is an extreme introvert. So he retrained to become a tool & dye maker. He loved it and made great $. I have some times on this board let my feelings get the best of me and have been unkind and am working on changing that.I agree with you about feeling comfortable and needing to fit into your work environment. Office work in my case is a horrible fit - I need to be up on my feet, moving around, and responding to whatever is going on around me, and it helps to have some kind of feedback on a regular basis. What I mean by this is that in a tipped environment, you are going to get constant feedback based on the amount of your tips - such speaks volumes to me regarding my work performance and competence. In an office environment I have a really hard time not nodding off and a harder time staying focused. What's funny here is that when I am selling books online, or selling items on ebay, when it's about me having more control of the variables and working for myself - I can handle sitting in the small home office I've put together from thrift store finds and working for hours listing item after item after item - with no huge lessening of energy and no nodding off. Put me in a standard corporate office and it's just a horribly miscast role for me. Go figure but so it is. Rob
What do you think " Moderators" actually do here?
Well, some of them threaten to use their moderator powerz when people disagree with them, to stifle discourse.
And when that happens, it's time for them to step down.
(Why did the chicken cross the road?)
Rob, I gotta say I rarely agree with your viewpoints, but I respect your right to say them, even if I personally think the argument is getting tedious. It bugs me when people who should know better feel they have to belittle you rather than just ignore you, like they would to "people like you" in real life. I hope the ignore button works well for these folks.
gimmethesimplelife
7-23-17, 7:19pm
Rob, I gotta say I rarely agree with your viewpoints, but I respect your right to say them. It bugs me when people who should know better feel they have to belittle you rather than just ignore you, like they would to "people like you" in real life. I hope the ignore button works well for these folks.Thank You. I share the wish in your last sentence too, and I appreciate your open mind.....allowing those who you don't agree with to say their piece. This shows class in my book - and here is something I have learned in my 50 years I believe some of you will understand that transcends social class or zip code: Class doesn't have much to do with money, or where you live or what you drive or what you wear or where you went on vacation or what you do for money or what you financial status is. Class is how you treat people. By this definition, I'd say I have class. As do you, and also others here. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-23-17, 7:22pm
Here's an update on my experience with the blocking feature - one of the members here is/was right. I just attempted to block an unnamed moderator here and the system would not let me do this - so I have to admit that this person did bring up a valid issue. It is true that one can not block a moderator, as they and also Alan stated. Guess I'll have to follow another poster's advice and hone my ignoring skills, lol. Whatever, the earth is hardly going to stop spinning. Rob
ApatheticNoMore
7-23-17, 7:22pm
In an office environment I have a really hard time not nodding off and a harder time stayig focused.
that's why caffeine was invented! :) Really truly though it's necessary for that kind of work.
Caffeine, chocolate, smoking, gossip, smart phones. People find many ways to get through the day. I have had jobs I enjoyed, but found when I am good at something I get stuck doing it long after it loses its novelty and appeal because it would be hard to replace me and then I largely stagnate. If I am doing something well enough the company is not interested in process improvements either because that involves effort by other people - e.g. IT. So the people who are incompetent or unmotivated get more assistance or more variety as they are moved to other roles, or sometimes up as in The Peter Principle.
iris lilies
7-23-17, 8:47pm
Here's an update on my experience with the blocking feature - one of the members here is/was right. I just attempted to block an unnamed moderator here and the system would not let me do this.... Rob
But you should be able to block 90% of my messages because I write 90% of them with my non-administrative account.:~)
iris lilies
7-23-17, 8:55pm
Here's an update on my experience with the blocking feature - one of the members here is/was right. I just attempted to block an unnamed moderator here and the system would not let me do this - so I have to admit that this person did bring up a valid issue. It is true that one can not block a moderator, as they and also Alan stated. Guess I'll have to follow another poster's advice and hone my ignoring skills, lol. Whatever, the earth is hardly going to stop spinning. Rob
Haha and guess what, I cant put you on ignore either! Oh, this is rich! The system still recognizes you as an administrator/moderator. Well, this is quite a pickle.
I can look through application settings to see if anything jumps out at me to resolve this, but it will be a while.
meanwhile, just avert your eyes from my posts.:~) I think this is hilarious.
Well, some of them threaten to use their moderator powerz when people disagree with them, to stifle discourse.
And when that happens, it's time for them to step down.
(Why did the chicken cross the road?)
just quoting in case your invisible.
iris lilies
7-23-17, 9:02pm
just quoting in case your invisible.
Ah, you were probably the second to go on IGNORE. :)
gimmethesimplelife
7-23-17, 9:03pm
Haha and guess what, I cant put you on ignore either! Oh, this is rich! The system still recognizes you as an administrator/moderator. Well, this is quite a pickle.
I can look through application settings to see if anything jumps out at me to resolve this, but it will be a while.
meanwhile, just avert your eyes from my posts.:~) I think this is hilarious.It rather is, IL....I have to say I agree with you on this one. Talk about irony!!! But I still don't get why the system recognizes me as a Mod/Admin? Alan deleted my Admin status long ago and today deleted my Mod status.....I'll avert my eyes I guess and as I said the Earth will keep spinning on regardless. Whatever, life is going to continue on this planet as we know it. Rob
Ah, you were probably the second to go on IGNORE. :)
loveable me, say it ain't so
gimmethesimplelife
7-23-17, 9:06pm
But you should be able to block 90% of my messages because I write 90% of them with my non-administrative account.:~)The account I attempted to block listed you as a Senior Member, not as a Mod. I don't know if this means anything but the account I attempted to block did not look like a keys to the behind the scenes account. For what it's worth......Rob
iris lilies
7-23-17, 9:06pm
It rather is, IL....I have to say I agree with you on this one. Talk about irony!!! But I still don't get why the system recognizes me as a Mod/Admin? Alan deleted my Admin status long ago and today deleted my Mod status.....I'll avert my eyes I guess and as I said the Earth will keep spinning on regardless. Whatever, life is going to continue on this planet as we know it. Rob
I know you are not reading this, but there are many internal settings in this software. There must be one that controls the ignore feature that is over and above status.
But just ignore this message!
Yep, just tried putting Rob on ignore myself. His title shows as senior member, but unable to "ignore" him due to him still being a mod. Darn it! HAHA
iris lilies
7-23-17, 9:10pm
The account I attempted to block listed you as a Senior Member, not as a Mod. I don't know if this means anything but the account I attempted to block did not look like a keys to the behind the scenes account. For what it's worth......Rob
Ah, then that adds even more mystery to the "cant put on Ignore" problem. My "senior" account shouldnt have this limit, anyone should be able to put me on ignore, at least according to our common wisdom.
Now I will have to poke around behind the scenes.
gimmethesimplelife
7-23-17, 9:11pm
Good thing Alan is so good with tech as something funky seems to be amiss here.....but one thing I can say? I'm glad this is a two way street and there are those ignoring me and those I wish to ignore. If this can be fixed perhaps there can be peace here, and Alan does seem to be gifted with tech so it's not like it's hopeless. Soon those who would rather not hear from one another can be blissfully free of each other. Have some faith folks! Rob
iris lilies
7-23-17, 9:14pm
Good thing Alan is so good with tech as something funky seems to be amiss here.....but one thing I can say? I'm glad this is a two way street and there are those ignoring me and those I wish to ignore. If this can be fixed perhaps there can be peace here, and Alan does seem to be gifted with tech so it's not like it's hopeless. Soon those who would rather not hear from one another can be blissfully free of each other. Have some faith folks! Rob
For what its worth, I don't put anyone on Ignore here except as temporary tech experiments.
Ah, you were probably the second to go on IGNORE. :)
Well, we've heard that those who live in the 85006 practice shunning.
“Every so often, in the midst of chaos, you come across an amazing, inexplicable instance of civic responsibility.”
― Kurt Vonnegut Jr., Hocus Pocus
gimmethesimplelife
7-23-17, 9:16pm
As a general post to no specific individual, those who I have blocked/put on ignore that did not have Moderator status I had no problem blocking. Something seems to be amiss with those who had (past tense) Moderator or Admin status - it's as if the system is not recalibrating for civilian status here. Funky but like I said, Alan seems gifted with tech. I might not be the most optimistic person but I do have faith that he can sort things out. Rob
Something seems to be amiss with those who had (past tense) Moderator or Admin status - it's as if the system is not recalibrating for civilian status here.
I believe this situation has been resolved.
gimmethesimplelife
7-23-17, 9:37pm
I believe this situation has been resolved.I'll check right now, Thank You. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-23-17, 9:41pm
Folks, those of you who wish to ignore me, please do so, whatever glitch was preventing this seems to be fixed. I of course have my own list of those who I will be ignoring and maybe now there can be peace here. Let's give it a try, shall we? Rob
Well, we've heard that those who live in the 85006 practice shunning.
“Every so often, in the midst of chaos, you come across an amazing, inexplicable instance of civic responsibility.”
― Kurt Vonnegut Jr., Hocus Pocus
They must be racist. Or intolerant. How will we know if everyone is on ignore?
Folks, those of you who wish to ignore me, please do so, whatever glitch was preventing this seems to be fixed. I of course have my own list of those who I will be ignoring and maybe now there can be peace here. Let's give it a try, shall we? Rob
Maybe.
iris lilies
7-23-17, 10:16pm
Now someone please test my Iris Lilies account, put it on Ignore. Does it work?
Hey Rob - now that all the ignoring and blocking business is out of the way I wanted to address a couple of things before I forget or it gets lost in the shuffle. Earlier I did not mean that your fears are unfounded, I meant that they might seem unfounded to someone who doesn't share them or has not shared the same experiences. Some people are not capable of empathy and will not be able to put themselves in someone else's shoes. And some people don't even try. So it is easy to dismiss the feelings of others. My experience has been that no amount of explaining or clarification will work in those situations. I usually just choose to accept that limitation in a person if the relationship is important, but to also protect myself by not sharing certain things with them. If the relationship is not important, then it's much easier to just eliminate interactions entirely. In an online situation, this blocking/ignoring function seems to be the solution.
But to address your initial post - the apprehension about your upcoming event (which is now long past!). Years ago I read The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker: https://www.amazon.com/Gift-Fear-Survival-Signals-Violence/dp/0440226198
In this excellent book, de Becker accurately identifies man as the most violent and vicious animal on the planet. And he talks about ways in which we can learn to feel more protected from external threats. It's really a great book. One of the interesting things I read was how seldom women offer other women help and how important that is because an offer of assistance from a woman is going to feel less threatening than a man offering help. After that I made a point of offering help to women when I saw them struggling, usually in the parking lot at the entrance to a store when they are trying to hoist their child(ren) onto the moving shopping cart. When I see that I immediately go over and offer help. The women usually defer at first with "That's ok, I'm fine..." as they continue to struggle. When I insist in a gentle manner, they are relieved and then profusely thankful for the help. Often they say I've made their day. This tells me that the offer of help from women (and maybe men, de Becker states that men are often afraid of offering help lest they come across as predatory), is a rare thing. And I'm ashamed to admit that before reading the book, I never thought to offer women help. I don't know why.
Anyway, that's a long-winded way of saying that how we interact with humans definitely affects our feelings of safety and well-being. The trick is to find a way to increase our feelings of safety while remaining aware enough to respond to imminent threats. The end! :)
Now someone please test my Iris Lilies account, put it on Ignore. Does it work?
Yes
iris lilies
7-23-17, 10:29pm
Yes
Oh good, thanks!
gimmethesimplelife
7-23-17, 11:05pm
Hey Rob - now that all the ignoring and blocking business is out of the way I wanted to address a couple of things before I forget or it gets lost in the shuffle. Earlier I did not mean that your fears are unfounded, I meant that they might seem unfounded to someone who doesn't share them or has not shared the same experiences. Some people are not capable of empathy and will not be able to put themselves in someone else's shoes. And some people don't even try. So it is easy to dismiss the feelings of others. My experience has been that no amount of explaining or clarification will work in those situations. I usually just choose to accept that limitation in a person if the relationship is important, but to also protect myself by not sharing certain things with them. If the relationship is not important, then it's much easier to just eliminate interactions entirely. In an online situation, this blocking/ignoring function seems to be the solution.
But to address your initial post - the apprehension about your upcoming event (which is now long past!). Years ago I read The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker: https://www.amazon.com/Gift-Fear-Survival-Signals-Violence/dp/0440226198
In this excellent book, de Becker accurately identifies man as the most violent and vicious animal on the planet. And he talks about ways in which we can learn to feel more protected from external threats. It's really a great book. One of the interesting things I read was how seldom women offer other women help and how important that is because an offer of assistance from a woman is going to feel less threatening than a man offering help. After that I made a point of offering help to women when I saw them struggling, usually in the parking lot at the entrance to a store when they are trying to hoist their child(ren) onto the moving shopping cart. When I see that I immediately go over and offer help. The women usually defer at first with "That's ok, I'm fine..." as they continue to struggle. When I insist in a gentle manner, they are relieved and then profusely thankful for the help. Often they say I've made their day. This tells me that the offer of help from women (and maybe men, de Becker states that men are often afraid of offering help lest they come across as predatory), is a rare thing. And I'm ashamed to admit that before reading the book, I never thought to offer women help. I don't know why.
Anyway, that's a long-winded way of saying that how we interact with humans definitely affects our feelings of safety and well-being. The trick is to find a way to increase our feelings of safety while remaining aware enough to respond to imminent threats. The end! :)I believe you are so dead on here, Geila. It really is true that some percentage of the population is completely incapable of putting themselves in someone else's shoes.....and that some people don't ever even bother to try. I have certainly run across this here, but to be fair, certainly this is not the only place I have run across this. I believe that life is short and personally I don't care to live this way.....maybe I can't fix everything wrong in the world, maybe I can't extend empathy to every last person I run across - true that - but I can't dismiss or walk over the feelings of others either as I believe in karma. I will look into The Gift of Fear....sounds interesting and some of the most interesting reads I've ever come across have been in situations like this where the recommendation was unexpected and unsolicited....it's like a gift when a good book is recommended to me out of nowhere - Thank You for this gift, what can I say?
I sure hope we can have some measure of peace here now. I have blocked several people that I have cut slack to on and on and on and on....call me door mat no more. I am done cutting slack for unacceptably rude behavior online. I deserve better and what's more, other decent folks here deserve better, too. This board is a good thing, I truly believe that - and I'm starting to believe that just like good fences make good neighbors, blocking/ignoring features make good online discussion boards.
Something good however has come of all this online snarkiness......IRL I'm appreciating my husband, my Mother, my in-laws and several long term cherished neighbors even more as I know these are people above hurting strangers online......and as I've gotten older the most important qualities I look for in people have changed - now I value kindness and decency and character. When I was younger I have to be honest that what I sought was not quite so noble sounding lol. Rob
I deserve better
Something good however has come of all this online snarkiness......IRL I'm appreciating my husband, my Mother, my in-laws and several long term cherished neighbors even more
This makes me so happy!!! :D I firmly believe in seeking environments that are nourishing and avoiding those that are not. To be honest, I don't know how long I'll be hanging around here. I can see why new people don't stick around. The nastiness is depressing and tiring. And I don't think it will disappear. I might be wrong, but I think some people relish it.
Anyway, I will enjoy the pleasant company while I'm here. Would love to hear about Queretaro!
rosarugosa
7-24-17, 6:27am
I'm sure that everyone ignoring everyone else will do wonderful things for the level of stimulating discussion on the Forums.
Williamsmith
7-24-17, 8:17am
I'm sure that everyone ignoring everyone else will do wonderful things for the level of stimulating discussion on the Forums.
Now....does anyone here know how I can put myself on ignore?
I'm sure that everyone ignoring everyone else will do wonderful things for the level of stimulating discussion on the Forums.
It's a fad. Everyone will un-block everyone else in a few weeks after realizing they may have missed something interesting.
Well, I'm back. This was the easiest border crossing I have had in years. this crossing was easy and low stress with no conflict. Color me grateful for this much. Rob
I'm glad you had an easy time coming back through customs. Maybe remember this positive experience when you plan your next trip over. Sometimes I think the more positive our thoughts and feelings the easier things go. I can be pretty bad about building up "what if" scenarios in my mind after being married to a pessimist for 27 years...I'm returning to my more positive outlook and finding that 89% of the times the "what if" never even comes close to happening.
I'm glad you had an easy time coming back through customs. Maybe remember this positive experience when you plan your next trip over. Sometimes I think the more positive our thoughts and feelings the easier things go. I can be pretty bad about building up "what if" scenarios in my mind after being married to a pessimist for 27 years...I'm returning to my more positive outlook and finding that 89% of the times the "what if" never even comes close to happening.
Well said.
I find that I look at the 'what if' scenarios', prepare myself and then step back and live the experience. Works well for me so far with very few negative surprises but many delightful discoveries and opportunities.
I'm sure that everyone ignoring everyone else will do wonderful things for the level of stimulating discussion on the Forums.
I don't see use of the ignore function as limiting discussion as much as recognizing that I am needing a break from someone's approach to posting here. When I have had some needed space, I will undo the ignore function. It is just being mindful, IMHO anyway.
I don't see use of the ignore function as limiting discussion as much as recognizing that I am needing a break from someone's approach to posting here. When I have had some needed space, I will undo the ignore function. It is just being mindful, IMHO anyway.
I like that perspective, razz, and will have to remember that.
iris lilies
7-24-17, 9:56am
Now....does anyone here know how I can put myself on ignore?
When you find out, let ME know!
William, here's a great self-ignore feature--this Quaker saying,
"Is it true, is it kind, is it necessary."
Works really well!
catherine
7-24-17, 10:06am
I think people who claim to like their work are for the most part really good at lying to themselves :P I mean yea endure it as best one can sure, but no point in pretending one loves it. "oh yes boss, I so love meeting your every whim ..."
Getting back to the discussion..
ANM, I know you've spoken about work being a "necessary evil" in the past and I agree that's unfortunately true for many people. Maybe even most. But can you concede that work can be very fulfilling? Are ALL people who say that they love their jobs self-righteous and in denial?
As you know this is an area of interest for me. I don't think work is the problem. I think the system is a big part of the problem, but that's another topic.
As dmc said, work can be paid or unpaid work. It can be working for "The Man" or it can be self-motivated. It can connect us, or it can divide us.
I think the "work" you are talking about is the more servile kind--being a cog in the wheel under the constant watch of people who care only about what you can produce for them. But I don't think that view of work represents the whole picture. Work is a mother caring for a child. Work is a designer making your world more beautiful. Work is what Bud my garbage collector does. Work is what Stephen King does every dawn for a few hours as he powers out his next novel. Work is collaborating with others on the next project. Work is giving up your life energy for 8 soulless hours and low pay. Work was literal slavery just 150 years ago. Work has produced Guernica, the iPhone, anti-retrovirals, well-educated children, highways, and farmlands. I love work for what it has given us, and I hate work for what it has taken from us.
I truly don't believe that all people would admit that they hate work. A lot will admit it with good reason, but a lot will say that their work has provided them with a great degree of fulfillment and satisfaction, without delusion.
ToomuchStuff
7-24-17, 10:26am
I'm sure that everyone ignoring everyone else will do wonderful things for the level of stimulating discussion on the Forums.
It's a fad. Everyone will un-block everyone else in a few weeks after realizing they may have missed something interesting.
It is a choice. One that one person kept saying use it and was too thick when it was explained to them repeatedly, that they couldn't. Computer literacy and ability to not threaten banning because you disagree with someone are traits that moderators should have.
I'm glad you had an easy time coming back through customs. Maybe remember this positive experience when you plan your next trip over. Sometimes I think the more positive our thoughts and feelings the easier things go. I can be pretty bad about building up "what if" scenarios in my mind after being married to a pessimist for 27 years...I'm returning to my more positive outlook and finding that 89% of the times the "what if" never even comes close to happening.
As stated earlier, won't go with his narrative (another word for agenda).
As for work, if you can do what you love and still love it, good for you. I turned things I did into jobs and hated them, was way more busy then I liked. At one point in my life, I worked three years straight, seven days a week, two jobs, with nine days off in those three years.
ApatheticNoMore
7-24-17, 10:50am
Getting back to the discussion..
ANM, I know you've spoken about work being a "necessary evil" in the past and I agree that's unfortunately true for many people. Maybe even most. But can you concede that work can be very fulfilling? Are ALL people who say that they love their jobs self-righteous and in denial?
I don't like using the term All mostly, most generalizations are false :~).
I think since the U.S. is a work oriented society to a larger degree than many, a place where it's more work "LIVE to WORK" than "work to live", that therefore there is social pressure to pretend one likes their job more than they actually do. If has to do with social DNA of defining yourself to a larger degree by what you do for work than is true elsewhere, if "you are your work" then you better pretend you like it, on work hours as it's expedient, and it might carry over, but also as an expected status symbol almost. This varies by class and position etc. to some degree of course.
And of course everyone is not going to "find work they love", you could say if work conditions were improved and if we worked less and it's all kind of utopian (and I'm in favor, and work would be in a more balanced relationship with the rest of life then), but not EVEN then and definitely not now. Maybe everyone isn't so unique that some people just love office work (maybe some people love root canals you know, but PROBABLY NOT), that it's often kind of a drag for most people, but a question of what one finds tolerable, and whether one sees better options etc.. (office work can vary widely by tasks and this does matter, but there is something highly unnatural about sitting all day inside an office that applies regardless). So there is not a job for everyone to find work they love, and Rob probably shares his feelings about office work with most people, but getting a bit tangential even from my own point here .... which is yea social pressures/instructions at least among some social classes to pretend one likes one work a lot more than they do.
catherine
7-24-17, 11:06am
I don't like using the term All mostly, most generalizations are false :~).
I think since the U.S. is a work oriented society to a larger degree than many, a place where it's more work "LIVE to WORK" than "work to live", that therefore there is social pressure to pretend one likes their job more than they actually do. If has to do with social DNA of defining yourself to a larger degree by what you do for work than is true elsewhere, if "you are your work" then you better pretend you like it, on work hours as it's expedient, and it might carry over, but also as an expected status symbol almost. This varies by class and position etc. to some degree of course.
.... which is yea social pressures/instructions at least among some social classes to pretend one likes one work a lot more than they do.
Well, I agree with a lot of that. I love the Nearings' "4 hours of bread labor" idea for that reason. Anyone can do something for 4 hours a day, and there is always a lot of yucky work in life that simply needs to be done. So why not spread it out among everyone for a few hours a day? And then spend the rest of the time split between really fulfilling work and leisure? I think that's a great recipe for a balanced life.
Teacher Terry
7-24-17, 12:27pm
Catherine if everyone could work 4 hours/day I think people would be a lot more productive. It would also be so helpful to families that often have to choose between having 2 parents working f.t. and childcare or one parent staying home and giving up their career for awhile. All those problems would disappear. Geila, you are right that some people can't put themselves in another person's shoes. I have always been able to do that and I am sure that is why it influenced my career choice of working in human services. I knew that in an instant my life could change drastically and I could be in the client's chair. The people that thought they were somehow superior to their client's usually don't do well in that field.
gimmethesimplelife
7-24-17, 1:58pm
It's a fad. Everyone will un-block everyone else in a few weeks after realizing they may have missed something interesting.Not in my case. I value peace. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-24-17, 2:11pm
I don't like using the term All mostly, most generalizations are false :~).
I think since the U.S. is a work oriented society to a larger degree than many, a place where it's more work "LIVE to WORK" than "work to live", that therefore there is social pressure to pretend one likes their job more than they actually do. If has to do with social DNA of defining yourself to a larger degree by what you do for work than is true elsewhere, if "you are your work" then you better pretend you like it, on work hours as it's expedient, and it might carry over, but also as an expected status symbol almost. This varies by class and position etc. to some degree of course.
And of course everyone is not going to "find work they love", you could say if work conditions were improved and if we worked less and it's all kind of utopian (and I'm in favor, and work would be in a more balanced relationship with the rest of life then), but not EVEN then and definitely not now. Maybe everyone isn't so unique that some people just love office work (maybe some people love root canals you know, but PROBABLY NOT), that it's often kind of a drag for most people, but a question of what one finds tolerable, and whether one sees better options etc.. (office work can vary widely by tasks and this does matter, but there is something highly unnatural about sitting all day inside an office that applies regardless). So there is not a job for everyone to find work they love, and Rob probably shares his feelings about office work with most people, but getting a bit tangential even from my own point here .... which is yea social pressures/instructions at least among some social classes to pretend one likes one work a lot more than they do.Interesing post, ANM. One of the reasons I have appreciated reading YMOYL is the emphasis on detaching yourself to some extent from what you do for money - that clicked with me instantly. I understand that as an adult I need to work to earn my keep and that I need to make some kind of contribution to society and with this I have no problem. What gets problematic for me? The expectation that I live for work. Hello???? Life is short, this is not how I am going to live or think personally....working for me is all about money and nothing else. It's great when I can make a guest's meal special and I do take a little pride in this and such does make my job easier psychologically and more pleasant overall, true - but working has nothing whatsoever to do with identity for me.
I truly can't understand how anyone could take identity from what they do for money - such is completely beyond me. And I like this about myself - this is not going to change at this late date. Now that the days of employer/employee loyalty are long since gone and very few are getting pension and I don't know anyone expecting to get a gold watch at a certain age - employers are renting my time and paying me for it, and in return they are entitled to the expectation that I work a fair day's work for my pay. This much I have no problem with. It's the expectation that work is your reason for being. Nope. No can do. I have yet to ever meet an employer who was worth that and have long since quit looking for such. Reading YMOYL made this all so crystal clear to me and I very much thank the authors....one is unfortunately no longer with us, and the other has since moved on to other projects. But what a wonderful book - it can really open your eyes to new ways of thinking. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-24-17, 2:14pm
Catherine if everyone could work 4 hours/day I think people would be a lot more productive. It would also be so helpful to families that often have to choose between having 2 parents working f.t. and childcare or one parent staying home and giving up their career for awhile. All those problems would disappear. Geila, you are right that some people can't put themselves in another person's shoes. I have always been able to do that and I am sure that is why it influenced my career choice of working in human services. I knew that in an instant my life could change drastically and I could be in the client's chair. The people that thought they were somehow superior to their client's usually don't do well in that field.TT, I'm just curious....what do you think it was in your life that aided your ability towards understanding that in the blink of an eye you could be sitting in your client's chair? I understand this very well too - but so many people (not a slam to anyone on this board, btw, I'm talking of society overall in general) - just don't seem to get this. I'm wondering what it is the makes some people get this and others not get this? Just curious if you have any thoughts? Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-24-17, 2:21pm
I'm sure that everyone ignoring everyone else will do wonderful things for the level of stimulating discussion on the Forums.On the one hand I do see you have a point, yes. On the other hand, I value my peace and am done with my role as forum door mat. Perhaps blocking for the long term/permanently from others is to deprive yourself of some differing viewpoints on the forum, yes, but in my case after having starred in the role of forum pinata it's the only way I can make a positive contribution here and eliminate that which had become toxic (not naming any names). I've got to say I'm very much liking the blocking feature and as I've said, in the case of yours truly (I don't and won't speak for others here) it's a wise move to use this feature. YMMV and that's cool if it does, most certainly. Rob
On the one hand I do see you have a point, yes. On the other hand, I value my peace and am done with my role as forum door mat. Perhaps blocking for the long term/permanently for others is to deprive yourself of some differing viewpoints on the forum, yes, but in my case after having starred in the role of forum pinata it's the only way I can make a positive contribution here and eliminate that which had become toxic (not naming any names). I've got to say I'm very much liking the blocking feature and as I've said, in the case of yours truly (I don't and won't speak for others here) it's a wise move to use this feature. YMMV and that's cool if it does, most certainly. Rob
But what if no one's reading this?
Teacher Terry
7-24-17, 2:34pm
Both my Grandparents and parents would help others including strangers. My GP let a few relatives live with them during the depression even though they were very poor. At 21 I was a young divorced Mom with a son to support and a low paying job. My parents had to help with car repairs etc because I just didn't make enough $. Then I remarried and we had 2 more kids. $ was tight for a few years but then my husband's income increased to the level that I could go to college and pay cash for it. I saw my neighbor struggle with 2 little kids and being on welfare. So between me, ex and my Mom and her Dad we watched her kids so she could go to college to get a better job. She was successful, got a job and their life was way better. So when I started college I wanted to be a teacher and there was a small private college in our town that produced excellent teachers. Unfortunately, our district only hired from out of state. No clue why. So I changed my major to SW. As a SW I saw some horrible things happen that never should have, etc. Then one of our clients murdered a SW I knew well and I got scared because I was in my 30's with 3 kids. So back to grad school for a job to test and evaluate people with disabilities to help them get back to work. When someone acquired a disability suddenly their entire life was turned upside down. It often lead to financial ruin and divorce. A young doctor with a bad head injury and tons of student loan debt was a client and could only do menial work. He saw his identity as a doctor and was never going to be able to pay his debts. Yes we had clients that were liars, scammers, trying to get stuff for free, etc but not the majority of our clients. Being a SW for 4 years did toughen naive me up. Now in retirement I am finally getting to teach.
gimmethesimplelife
7-24-17, 2:34pm
This makes me so happy!!! :D I firmly believe in seeking environments that are nourishing and avoiding those that are not. To be honest, I don't know how long I'll be hanging around here. I can see why new people don't stick around. The nastiness is depressing and tiring. And I don't think it will disappear. I might be wrong, but I think some people relish it.
Anyway, I will enjoy the pleasant company while I'm here. Would love to hear about Queretaro!Geila, color me as hoping this brouhaha (I picked up this word in Mexico years ago and have always wanted to use it lol) will help in calming things down. I for my part will be keeping certain peeps on perma-ignore and I invite them to do the same with me - though such is of course up to them as free individuals. I'm already feeling calmer here and feel I have steered myself more towards those who are making what I consider positive contributions that resonate for me. I hope I am doing the same for the many unblocked others but of course all of our mileages are going to vary on this one, I get that. Next tiff here I hope very much not to be a part of in any way, shape, or form, and given that I no longer have keys to behind the scenes it's very easy not to be a part of such. So that much sure works for me!
There are good people here and there always have been, I maintain this much is true. I agree that the nastiness is depressing and tiring - I personally have the stamina overall of the Energizer Bunny in dealing with such (probably because of both my economic background and also due to working in customer service and having to keep a neutral face at minimum when confronted with absolute insanity) - but I have faith that the board has made some progress moving towards a calmer place. Color me hoping that if such does not disappear, at least there's a noticeable reduction in such.
What would you like to know about Querataro? My husband and I are trying to work it so that we can visit sometime within the next year - really spend some time there to see if it's a good fit. I like the colonial buildings, the low cost of living, the climate, and the relative safety of the place.....it's very stereotypically interior Mexico in it's appearance and pace of life. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-24-17, 2:41pm
But what if no one's reading this?My take is that of course certain folks here have blocked me and for this I say more power to them! I mean this with no snark, either. If what I post is so distressful to them, by all means they should be perma-blocking me. And vice versa, of course. My take is that certain folks here never grasped that this street very much goes both ways - but now such unnamed persons are blocked - what does it matter? Can we not have some peace at this point? There are those here whose posts resonate for me in a positive way and I hope I return this favor as a long term member here. I have no wish to leave - just to be free of the ick that just took place (need I get more specific at this point?) and had been taking place for some time. No longer do I accept the role of forum door mat....and yes, I should never have accepted such for so long. Anyone thinking or wishing to post such - I'll say right here and now that you have a very good point there. This is something I need to work on in my life, yes. Breaking away constructively from unpleasantness instead of riding it out on and on and on and on. Give me some credit though - I finally broke away. Took long enough, yes, but I did do it. Rob
It may be trying at times, but I kind of like my job. I think a major impediment to happiness at work and elsewhere is the failure to cultivate a certain sense of gratitude. If you approach life with the attitude that you are owed a living and that any work you do with anything short of joy every minute is an imposition, then you’ve probably doomed yourself to unhappiness. My work provides frequent headaches and heartburn, but it also provides a means to give my family the things they need and to provide for their future. If it wasn’t difficult and frustrating, I would probably not take as much satisfaction in doing it.
Much like with the people in my life, I try not to waste too much effort in resenting how they come up short. Focusing on what they do bring me is much healthier If that's self-delusion, I highly recommend it.
But what if no one's reading this?
Maybe we could integrate some of the Facebook algorithms, so that we only see posts from people who echo our own thoughts. That'd sure be peaceful.
Rob - I visited some of the colonial cities in Mexico many years ago and fell in love with them. I'd like to go back some day. I didn't make it to Queretaro, but I did go to Morelia and I just loved that city. The beautiful pink stone buildings, the aquaducts, the food! And the people were so warm and welcoming. I also liked the small town of Uruapan. Back then it had a lovely plaza and a beautiful nature park with lots of water everywhere.
Maybe you can teach English when you retire? Or lead tours of the colonial cities. I've always thought that would be an awesome job. And with your background in service, maybe do airbnb or a Bed & Breakfast!
But what if no one's reading this?
Dang it, now that you quoted it I can see it. Oh the agony!
Dang it, now that you quoted it I can see it. Oh the agony!
Really??? How old are you?
iris lilies
7-24-17, 4:52pm
Really??? How old are you?
Old enough not to put posters on Ignore?
Old enough not to put posters on Ignore?
Most people move past the "ignore" thing after they turn 8/10/12 :-)
Some people however have the foundation of their understanding of the world stuck at that age. It must make the world a scary place for them.
Ultralight
7-24-17, 5:04pm
Really??? How old are you?
That has been a fun thread!
Old enough not to put posters on Ignore?
yep, I learned at very early age that, Sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never harm me. Or something like that. That was what I was told when I was still a wee youngster.
Ultralight
7-24-17, 7:27pm
yep, I learned at very early age that, Sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never harm me. Or something like that. That was what I was told when I was still a wee youngster.
Don't you understand that words are sticks and stones! What about "verbal violence?"
ApatheticNoMore
7-24-17, 7:55pm
verbal abuse is a very real thing (call it violence or not, but the lots of things that get called violence aren't - it has to involve physical contact with the physical body itself to truly qualify probably), but from the internet this might affect teens and 20 something naifs without a lot of perspective on life in a really deep way. It may be HURTFUL regardless, but it's not going to seriously affect the course of any middle aged person's life, but young people can be real vulnerable sometimes, they just don't always have a lot of perspective on things, depending probably on how much other support they have in life etc..
ToomuchStuff
7-25-17, 2:34am
I I understand that as an adult I need to work to earn my keep and that I need to make some kind of contribution to society and with this I have no problem.
I truly can't understand how anyone could take identity from what they do for money - such is completely beyond me.
So your value is just unbelievably high, that you don't expect you need to earn your own healthcare but for a little bit of charity work, a few hours a week.
I believe a lot of things are beyond you, but some spend enough time and get enough education that they do take identity from what they do for money. Examples are Doctors, lawyers, Law enforcement, politicians.
But what if no one's reading this?
Delusions have never needed a basis in reality.
Geila, color me as hoping this brouhaha (I picked up this word in Mexico years ago and have always wanted to use it lol) will help in calming things down. I for my part will be keeping certain peeps on perma-ignore and I invite them to do the same with me - though such is of course up to them as free individuals. I get that.
the nastinesswhining/victim mentality is depressing and tiring.... insanity
The option exists now, and he finally got that now. Now if he only got the points made to him...
My take is that certain folks here never grasped that this street very much goes both ways
...from the side of the street that he wouldn't cross to examine/learn from/listen to....
Most people move past the "ignore" thing after they turn 8/10/12 :-)
Some people however have the foundation of their understanding of the world stuck at that age. It must make the world a scary place for them.
..then he might have continued to learn lessons that many of us have after these ages.
verbal abuse is a very real thing (call it violence or not, but the lots of things that get called violence aren't - it has to involve physical contact with the physical body itself to truly qualify probably), but from the internet this might affect teens and 20 something naifs without a lot of perspective on life in a really deep way. It may be HURTFUL regardless, but it's not going to seriously affect the course of any middle aged person's life, but young people can be real vulnerable sometimes, they just don't always have a lot of perspective on things, depending probably on how much other support they have in life etc..
Not everyone has the mental capabilities to handle a lot. Hence Einstein's definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. No matter how others have tried, some will just never get it.:laff:
gimmethesimplelife
7-25-17, 8:13am
I'm glad you had an easy time coming back through customs. Maybe remember this positive experience when you plan your next trip over. Sometimes I think the more positive our thoughts and feelings the easier things go. I can be pretty bad about building up "what if" scenarios in my mind after being married to a pessimist for 27 years...I'm returning to my more positive outlook and finding that 89% of the times the "what if" never even comes close to happening.Thank You, Float On. Here's an interesting bit of news about crossing the border again in the future. My husband has a cousin he likes that's having a Birthday soon in Nogales, Mexico and he wants both of us to cross to be part of the family party and based on my experience crossing he's willing to give it a go - meaning cross into Mexico and cross back to the US. He's also been apprehensive - given that he's Hispanic, my take is that this is very understandable given the current situation. So we'll see.....I'm a little anxious as his spouse regarding him leaving the US and crossing back and a few of our neighbors are like don't do it....don't take the risk, and even my Mother is saying she'd think it over more before leaving the US in his case. This may come as no surprise to those who are familiar with me over time but I ended out with someone as strong willed as I am LOL - he's made up his mind and he's going to cross and that's just that, whatever happens be damned. His paperwork is impeccable and given my smooth crossing, I'm hoping for the best.......and Thank You again for your kind words, Float On, I do appreciate them. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-25-17, 8:22am
Something else funky about the software here - it seems as if I still have access to the Moderator area of the board. Given that I have stepped down I'm of the opinion that such access is no longer appropriate. I'm thinking that once the mods and/or Alan reads this, such access can easily be removed in my case? Thank You in advance to those behind the scenes for looking into this. Rob
verbal abuse is a very real thing (call it violence or not, but the lots of things that get called violence aren't - it has to involve physical contact with the physical body itself to truly qualify probably), but from the internet this might affect teens and 20 something naifs without a lot of perspective on life in a really deep way. It may be HURTFUL regardless, but it's not going to seriously affect the course of any middle aged person's life, but young people can be real vulnerable sometimes, they just don't always have a lot of perspective on things, depending probably on how much other support they have in life etc..
Didn't Aristotle, or maybe the Jesuits, say something to the effect of "Give me the boy until he is seven, and I will show you the man."
I'm not where I fall on the speech-as-violence thing. There are probably a number of things we need to protect children from. On the other hand, I have little (perhaps less than I should) patience for adults who value some subjective concept of "abuse" over free speech. College students, for instance, shouldn't be able to shut down speakers whose ideas "make them feel unsafe."
iris lilies
7-25-17, 10:20am
Didn't Aristotle, or maybe the Jesuits, say something to the effect of "Give me the boy until he is seven, and I will show you the man."
I'm not where I fall on the speech-as-violence thing. There are probably a number of things we need to protect children from. On the other hand, I have little (perhaps less than I should) patience for adults who value some subjective concept of "abuse" over free speech. College students, for instance, shouldn't be able to shut down speakers whose ideas "make them feel unsafe."
I cant relate to, and frankly do not respect the idea, that anonymous posters in cyberspace are creating "unsafe" places for other anonymous posters. To me, that is disrespectful of the concept of "safety."
I understand and do respect that some people dont like the negativity of certain websites, the negativity inhabits their thoghts and diminishes the happiness of their lives, and they move on. That is ok, not all places are suitable for all people.
Maybe here I am overly focused on the meanng of the word "safety." Maybe we all just have different inyerpretations of the meaning of that word.
ApatheticNoMore
7-25-17, 10:58am
Didn't Aristotle, or maybe the Jesuits, say something to the effect of "Give me the boy until he is seven, and I will show you the man."
I think this is self-evidently false, because lots of people may have a great 7 years and end up pretty messed up if say a bunch of trauma happens to them somewhere later in their childhood or adolescence. Noone would would perform the experiment on their own kids even in terms of verbal abuse "ok you are now 8 we can finally verbally abuse you all day long, and it won't do any harm, weeee!!!!". But that's an issue which child development folks would know about, which wasn't information Aristotle had at the time so he didn't or the phrase was just exaggerating for effect. I never said abuse online of a 50 year old was the same or something, in fact I explicitly said otherwise, just if we are engaging in ridiculous arguments I am countering the ridiculous argument of 8 years old being so mature, the brain isn't even kind of mature by then, early socialization isn't complete etc..
On Robs posts I tend to take a middle ground, I can see how his posts (which are rants really sometimes) can be seen as provoking it and I can see how certain people are getting off on targeting Rob. A middle position neither wins respect nor allies I know but oh well. So ignore away :)
I'm not where I fall on the speech-as-violence thing. There are probably a number of things we need to protect children from. On the other hand, I have little (perhaps less than I should) patience for adults who value some subjective concept of "abuse" over free speech. College students, for instance, shouldn't be able to shut down speakers whose ideas "make them feel unsafe."
you are probably lumping together a lot of things that are really not the same thing at all. Being exposed to ideas one disagrees with say (which I don't oppose although the ideas are often such a joke intellectually that I don't think they should necessarily have a college say forum of that reason, or at least they should be presenting in debate forum where they will be properly refuted for anyone who wishes to think about it), and being personally ganged up on by large numbers of people for verbal abuse that is *personal* (this has happened to some teenagers online and they have killed themselves etc.). Avoiding the latter is simply treating others as you would like to be treated, which I guess is like so controversial ... OMG because it interferes with ... I don't even know people's freedom to treat others like crap?
gimmethesimplelife
7-25-17, 12:29pm
Didn't Aristotle, or maybe the Jesuits, say something to the effect of "Give me the boy until he is seven, and I will show you the man."
I'm not where I fall on the speech-as-violence thing. There are probably a number of things we need to protect children from. On the other hand, I have little (perhaps less than I should) patience for adults who value some subjective concept of "abuse" over free speech. College students, for instance, shouldn't be able to shut down speakers whose ideas "make them feel unsafe."I agree with you 100% regarding college students.....I agree they should not be able to shut down campus guest speakers due to not caring for speech content. I've even seen youtube videos of this - it's pretty funky to watch this in action. On the other hand, enough is enough. Obviously I've reached the point where enough is enough - not naming anyone once again - I've reached my personal line.
My question for you and for the board is - where do we draw the line, as individuals and as society? Good question and not an easy one, is it? I rather guess that our mileage is all going to vary on this one. My take is I should have put various persons on ignore long ago - I didn't do so as I was shut down so much in my life when I was younger due to being gay - I know what it's like to be shut down for reasons that have no merit in my mind, and I know what it's like to have this happen often, again and again and again. So I tend to let things drag on for far too long. So - what criteria should we have as individuals and as a society before we shut something down we don't agree with? On the board it became obvious to me that it was time for me address this (and I chose blocking as my method, which could be argued to be passive aggressive, I get that, but gosh darn, it's quick, effective, and it seems to work (!!!)) when a few kindly souls stood up for me and I realized that this was not in my head, that things truly had gone too far.
Now to take a much broader picture - when does society, or when should society, make similar choices? What should the criteria be, what line needs needs to be crossed before society acts in this way? Maybe we can have an interesting discussion on this issue after all and make something positive of the drama that has taken place, who knows? Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-25-17, 12:35pm
Rob - I visited some of the colonial cities in Mexico many years ago and fell in love with them. I'd like to go back some day. I didn't make it to Queretaro, but I did go to Morelia and I just loved that city. The beautiful pink stone buildings, the aquaducts, the food! And the people were so warm and welcoming. I also liked the small town of Uruapan. Back then it had a lovely plaza and a beautiful nature park with lots of water everywhere.
Maybe you can teach English when you retire? Or lead tours of the colonial cities. I've always thought that would be an awesome job. And with your background in service, maybe do airbnb or a Bed & Breakfast!Morelia is a place I'd very much like to visit, too, along with Uruapan. There's a lake somewhere in there - by Patzcauro, I think - where there is an annual butterfly migration that is supposed to be incredible to see. Also very scenic if there before or after the annual migration.....I'd love to see this. I like the idea too of leading tours in this area - right now it's a bit dicey as this part of Mexico is one of the more unsafe parts to be honest but I'm hoping for the best here in the future. Such a beautiful country Mexico is beyond the safety issue(s), so much to see and do and so much to learn, and such a fascinating history, too. And I share this with you, Geila, the colonial cities are my favorite part of Mexico. For me personally this area is much more interesting than the beach cities and much less overstimulating than say Mexico City is - Guadalajara is about as big a city as I can handle in Mexico. What is your favorite city in Mexico, if I may ask? Rob
My question for you and for the board is - where do we draw the line, as individuals and as society? Rob
I don't know. If a person brings up the same subject for the thousandth time, a subject that many people disagree with, should those who disagree just remain silent while the ongoing rant continues?
Also, if everyone who disagrees is put on Ignore, do the rant's continue?
catherine
7-25-17, 12:50pm
Well, if I take my Al-Anon lessons into this, you realize that a) you can't change anyone; b) you are not responsible for their behavior; c) you set own boundaries, not with the intention of changing others, but protecting yourself and d) you take care of your own side of the street. I have also learned that you are best to avoid "toxic" people, behavior and language
If you apply that to society in general, you live and let live. Honor free speech. If you feel you need to address it, address it, but if you're better off walking away, walk away.
I completely disagree with liberal college campuses shutting down speakers based on political platform. I'm all for open, respectful discourse. I'm not supportive of "safe spaces."
What happens if discourse goes from being respectful to disrespectful, or even to abusive? Non-violent resistance would be my answer. Turn my back. Walk away. Disengage.
I would take a more active stance if there are threats made. I guess that's where I draw the line.
As far as "ignore"--I've only blocked one friend on FB who raised my blood pressure with her snide, mean, liberal rants. I haven't really been THAT bothered by anyone else.
gimmethesimplelife
7-25-17, 1:04pm
Well, if I take my Al-Anon lessons into this, you realize that a) you can't change anyone; b) you are not responsible for their behavior; c) you set own boundaries, not with the intention of changing others, but protecting yourself and d) you take care of your own side of the street. I have also learned that you are best to avoid "toxic" people, behavior and language
If you apply that to society in general, you live and let live. Honor free speech. If you feel you need to address it, address it, but if you're better off walking away, walk away.
I completely disagree with liberal college campuses shutting down speakers based on political platform. I'm all for open, respectful discourse. I'm not supportive of "safe spaces."
What happens if discourse goes from being respectful to disrespectful, or even to abusive? Non-violent resistance would be my answer. Turn my back. Walk away. Disengage.
I would take a more active stance if there are threats made. I guess that's where I draw the line.
As far as "ignore"--I've only blocked one friend on FB who raised my blood pressure with her snide, mean, liberal rants. I haven't really been THAT bothered by anyone else.I like your take on this Catherine, ESPECIALLY the part about being OK with just walking away when that's the wisest thing to do. What a life lesson for me personally here! I'm not one to walk away easily which begs the question: What exactly do I gain from not doing so? Gotta give myself permission to walk away more often!!! Even if it's something simple as blocking some folks online - it's OK to just calmly walk away......this is not the same as losing or defeat. Live and learn I guess but I am going to look this one over in my personal life. Rob
iris lilies
7-25-17, 1:15pm
I don't know. If a person brings up the same subject for the thousandth time, a subject that many people disagree with, should those who disagree just remain silent while the ongoing rant continues?
Also, if everyone who disagrees is put on Ignore, do the rant's continue?
For me its not the subject that I disagree with (I may agree with some of it, sometimes) but it is the problem of thousandth thread. At least use the rant thread, or make a thread called "I Hate America and Have Since I Discovered Its Duplicity at the age of 8/10/12" for all of the rants. Some of us may occasionally add to the thread about things in the U.S we dont like. Hey, it's not inconceivable.
Also,the questions Rob poses wont be answered in ways he sees, so why ask them? So strange.
gimmethesimplelife
7-25-17, 1:24pm
I don't know. If a person brings up the same subject for the thousandth time, a subject that many people disagree with, should those who disagree just remain silent while the ongoing rant continues?
Also, if everyone who disagrees is put on Ignore, do the rant's continue?Two things come to mind for me here, Alan, being:
A). We have often disagreed in the past, no? Notice that I did not put you on ignore regardless. Why, you ask? Which leads me to B). -
B). It's perfectly acceptable to disagree with me - this is a discussion board, right? If we all agree with one another what would be the point of the board in the first place? The difference: You never belittled me, disparaged me, or took any cheap shots at me. Hence I perceive no need to block you even though we seldom agree. Follow the logic?
Now to move beyond the personal, and the recent history of this thread if possible, what's your take on when the line gets crossed in society, and what if anything should society do when said line is crossed? Rob
Now to move beyond the personal, and the recent history of this thread if possible, what's your take on when the line gets crossed in society, and what if anything should society do when said line is crossed? Rob
Help me out please. Which line?
gimmethesimplelife
7-25-17, 1:39pm
Help me out please. Which line?The line of shutting down that which you individually and the line at which society as a whole disagrees with. How do we define this for ourselves individually, and how does/should society as a whole define such? Not an easy question to answer, is it? (at least it is not for me personally, especially the part about society as a whole). Rob
Rob - I'd have a hard time choosing a favorite city because they all have something unique. The colonial cities reminded me of Europe, but way cheaper and less crowded. When I visited the area was very safe, it saddens me to think that's not the case anymore. I know the violence did enter into Oaxaca, which used to be a lovely city. I only spent a morning in Guadalajara so I went in search of posole! :) I found a great little place and was introduced to white posole (I'd only ever had red). I thought it was a beautiful city, I got to watch it wake up and got some amazing pictures. Oh, I've also heard that Patzcuaro has a fantastic Dia de los Muertos festival. That would be nice to experience some day.
On the issue of people who bother us - in an online community it is so easy to just not engage with someone who bothers you. If someone who bothers you starts a thread, why not just ignore it and go about your business? It's so easy! Instead, a number of people choose to continually harass the person. Even now, there are a number of people who are still posting on this thread harassing others. It's as if they get a particular pleasure from poking at others with a stick. Don't they have better things to do with their time? Middle-aged bullies are tiresome and unpleasant.
I think it might be a good time for individual members to think of what values they wish to promote in this community. It was created as a community for people who wish to embrace simple living. How does bullying tie in with simple living? Or disrespect for the opinions of others? Or belittling a fellow community member on a continual basis? Even when asked to stop?
This used to be wonderful community with lots of engagement and a strong focus on building a sense of empowerment for it's members. Living simply in a consumer society does take determination and sacrifice. And a having a community to come to for support was a huge boon. And yes, it was a safe space. I don't think creating safe spaces is a bad thing. If this site doesn't offer something positive, what's the point of engaging? People will go search for it elsewhere. There's lots of wonderful people who visit this site, but there is an unpleasant loud group that dominates the tone of the interactions. It makes coming here an unpleasant experience. But the only people who can change that, if change is desired, are the rest of the members. It's really up to them.
There's lots of wonderful people who visit this site, but there is an unpleasant loud group that dominates the tone of the interactions. It makes coming here an unpleasant experience. But the only people who can change that, if change is desired, are the rest of the members. It's really up to them.So, are you suggesting that the members should say something to the person who creates the thousand or so (that's an exaggeration, it's probably not more than several hundred) negative threads?
Conversely, should we re-brand the site as the "Why I hate America" discussion forums so that one poster can continually regale us all with their thoughts on the subject.
So, are you suggesting that the members should say something to the person who creates the thousand or so negative threads?
I am suggesting that if someone bothers you, that you simply not engage with them. Why is that hard to understand? If someone posts, and you already know that you don't agree with that person's world view, just ignore the post. And go about your own business, posting whatever you feel like posting about. Isn't that how online sites are set up? We don't need to respond to every post. We can create our own threads about the things we like and want to talk about? Why would I waste my time harassing someone for their world view?
I genuinely do not understand why several people here are unable to cease harassing others. I'm further surprised by the need to clarify what it means to ignore someone who's view you don't like. There's a dynamic at play that is starting to feel really unpleasant. I came here looking for connection and support in seeking to live a simple life. This is not what that looks like to me. This ugliness is making my life less simple and less pleasant. And I'm getting to the point where I really resent that a few aggressive and dominant people choose to continue this ugliness.
I'm further surprised by the need to clarify what it means to ignore someone who's view you don't like. There's a dynamic at play that is starting to feel really unpleasant. I came here looking for connection and support in seeking to live a simple life. This is not what that looks like to me. This ugliness is making my life less simple and less pleasant. And I'm getting to the point where I really resent that a few aggressive and dominant people choose to continue this ugliness.
As it happens, there's several others here who feel the same way, although they're apparently all on Ignore now as a result of expressing the same frustrations you feel free to publish.
gimmethesimplelife
7-25-17, 2:08pm
So, are you suggesting that the members should say something to the person who creates the thousand or so (that's an exaggeration, it's probably not more than several hundred) negative threads?Here's a neutral take I have on this whole issue of "negative threads". This is a board concerning living more simply, correct? Are we in agreement on this much, Alan? Moving on from this point, living simpler to me personally (and it's cool if others don't follow me on this, just hear me out is all I ask) is an EXTREMELY broad topic.
I will spare you'all repetition of the zip code, we all know my zip by now, let's move on from that, please. My upcoming point? Where I live things like police brutality, fear regarding access to health care, fear of dealing with US CBP when crossing the border (only reason to begin with for crossing the border was to access services priced out of reach in the US to begin with)....these are daily fears that very much complicate life. Day in, day out, these issues are there 24/7/365. Like it or not this reality is not going to poof - just go away.
I understand that this is not everyone here's life experience or reality. Understood and granted here and now. My question here though: Are we so elitist that there is no room for these genuine issues that do indeed plague more than a tiny subset of the US population? I'm going to be brutally honest here in a non-nasty way: Certain members here do come across as very elitist. Also, the overall tone here does resemble high school at times (with some posters, please let me state here and now not all). My further take is that I am not here to win any popularity contest or win over anyone's positive opinion of me - I am here to discuss that which makes my life less simple. Guess what? Where I live the issues that I have posted DO INDEED COMPLICATE THE LIVES OF MANY. (capitalized not to offend or scream but to show respect for all those dealing with said issues). Should an individual poster not experience this reality, great - and I mean this sincerely with no snark or jealousy - we all have our crosses to bear in life - how can I know that someone more secure than myself is not suffering in some other off-board way? I can't know that, obviously. But this what I post is reality for more than just a few Americans and by golly, it does indeed complicate life. If certain people can't have some respect or at least some neutrality at rock bottom, is there any reason that they can not block me as I have blocked them? I'm not especially computer literate and I've managed to block several people with whom I have had issues - is it too hard for them to do the same for me in return should they find my pixels so distressful to run across?
I was not aware that our posts were to be approved through the filter of social class. Care to comment? Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-25-17, 2:13pm
I am suggesting that if someone bothers you, that you simply not engage with them. Why is that hard to understand? If someone posts, and you already know that you don't agree with that person's world view, just ignore the post. And go about your own business, posting whatever you feel like posting about. Isn't that how online sites are set up? We don't need to respond to every post. We can create our own threads about the things we like and want to talk about? Why would I waste my time harassing someone for their world view?
I genuinely do not understand why several people here are unable to cease harassing others. I'm further surprised by the need to clarify what it means to ignore someone who's view you don't like. There's a dynamic at play that is starting to feel really unpleasant. I came here looking for connection and support in seeking to live a simple life. This is not what that looks like to me. This ugliness is making my life less simple and less pleasant. And I'm getting to the point where I really resent that a few aggressive and dominant people choose to continue this ugliness.Thank You. I could not agree with you more, Geila, and I share the same lack of understanding regarding issues you have highlighted. Furthermore, not being directly involved in this, you have stated things more calmly than I can and I both Thank You and appreciate your presence here. Rob
Here's a neutral take I have on this whole issue of "negative threads".......
.........
.........
I was not aware that our posts were to be approved through the filter of social class. Care to comment? Rob
Yeah, that's funny. ;)
gimmethesimplelife
7-25-17, 2:21pm
Yeah, that's funny. ;)Sorry, Alan, I don't follow you here. Rob
Thank You. I could not agree with you more, Geila, and I share the same lack of understanding regarding issues you have highlighted. Furthermore, not being directly involved in this, you have stated things more calmly than I can and I both Thank You and appreciate your presence here. Rob
Rob - I get it! It's about power. Duh. That's why some people refuse to move on and leave others alone. They need to feel they have the power to control everything and everyone. And being ignored makes them feel powerless. That's why them keep harassing and poking. They need the attention to feed their ego.
Now, the only thing left is to decide whether it's worth it to stick around. I really don't think the culture that's been entrenched here for so long is going to change. Too many people are too vested in maintaining it. And not enough people are willing to challenge it and do the work to change it. You and I alone will not be able to affect change. It would need to be a group effort, and I don't see that happening.
gimmethesimplelife
7-25-17, 2:33pm
Rob - I get it! It's about power. Duh. That's why some people refuse to move on and leave others alone. They need to feel they have the power to control everything and everyone. And being ignored makes them feel powerless. That's why them keep harassing and poking. They need the attention to feed their ego.
Now, the only thing left is to decide whether it's worth it to stick around. I really don't think the culture that's been entrenched here for so long is going to change. Too many people are too vested in maintaining it. And not enough people are willing to challenge it and do the work to change it. You and I alone will not be able to affect change. It would need to be a group effort, and I don't see that happening.Geila, Thank again for your support. Are they really still harassing and poking? I have the individuals you speak of on ignore as we all know by now - the way the software is set up is if you choose to ignore someone, you still see that they posted though you don't see their post. You are also given the option to click and poof - you can see what they posted and if you click just below this, you can unblock them if you like. Not doing either at this point so the folks you speak of - I don't know what they have posted since I blocked them. And really don't care to know, either.
About sticking around - only you can decide that, to be honest. I still maintain there are some good people here but these good people tend to be the more quiet ones and one tip is they tend not to post much or ever in Simple Public Policy. And it might be wise for me to avoid that area too, if I am going to be honest here. I agree however that negative dynamic you refer to? I don't believe it's going to change overall with the current folks entrenched, but then again no one says you have to be part of this negative dynamic. I'm not giving up but I'm like that....stubborn as hell. Chalk it up to life in my zip code ROTFLMAO.
And I agree it's about power to some degree, and egos. I'm getting now why so many people over time have left this board.....the dynamic is crystal clear to me now. Took long enough, but it's crystal clear now. Rob
PS But once again, there are good people here - a few stood up for me earlier, such as yourself though you were not the only one....there are good and sincere people here, too....I just feel the need very strongly to state this.
PS Geila, based on your posts I thought you might understand this and find it funky. If you click on your profile, one of the features on your profile page is that it displays the usernames of the last ten people who visited your page. So I have an inquiring mind, right? I looked at the last ten people to visit my page and EVERY ONE of the people I have put on ignore is listed there! WTH??? I don't get it as it's been made crystal clear that the option to block me is wide open and available now that I am no longer a moderator. Go figure!!! Rob
My question for you and for the board is - where do we draw the line, as individuals and as society? Good question and not an easy one, is it?
It's an easy one for me. I'm a free speech absolutist. Insult my mother. Mock my faith. Burn my flag. Impugn my motivations. Crap on my certitudes. Any amount of discomfort or disrespect is a small price to pay for the freedom to say whatever erupts from my tiny mind.
The SJWs, moral majoritarians and bluenoses of all persuasions who want to censor and shame the rest of us into conformity are welcome to speak their piece, but they're just one aisle of stalls in the marketplace of ideas.
Sorry, Alan, I don't follow you here. Rob
Rob - His reply is not meant as constructive dialogue, it's meant as sarcastic put down. Because you are earnest and sincere (and assume others are as well), you will ask him what he means, and he will coyly string you along with more sarcasm. It's a game designed to make him feel better at your expense.
While we do get annoyed at times, this is a good site so please let's not bash it. It helped me learn about things that I needed as it has others. Support has been provided for those who are facing a change or challenge in their life. Insights have been amazing and tech advice is always appreciated by this non-techie.
Let it go please and appreciate what is good and useful. A number of members have come on to say that they lurked so lack of posts is not indicative of interest.
gimmethesimplelife
7-25-17, 3:09pm
Rob - His reply is not meant as constructive dialogue, it's meant as sarcastic put down. Because you are earnest and sincere (and assume others are as well), you will ask him what he means, and he will coyly string you along with more sarcasm. It's a game designed to make him feel better at your expense.I'm starting to understand this, yes. At least I'm above such behavior for the most part....I'm sure that over the course of my 10 plus years here I've sunk to it at some point - I'm no saint. But this here is really uncalled for and solves nothing.....Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-25-17, 3:11pm
While we do get annoyed at times, this is a good site so please let's not bash it. It helped me learn about things that I needed as it has others. Support has been provided for those who are facing a change or challenge in their life. Insights have been amazing and tech advice is always appreciated by this non-techie.
Let it go please and appreciate what is good and useful. A number of members have come on to say that they lurked so lack of posts is not indicative of interest.Thank You for the positive words regarding the site. Rob
ToomuchStuff
7-25-17, 3:34pm
I am suggesting that if someone bothers you, that you simply not engage with them. Why is that hard to understand? If someone posts, and you already know that you don't agree with that person's world view, just ignore the post. And go about your own business, posting whatever you feel like posting about. Isn't that how online sites are set up?
No it isn't. A moderator/administrator, while you may be able to use the ignore function between the ears, if they ask a question and your ignoring them, has the power to ban or cause you to be unable to post, as well as the ability to edit your posts. When they go threatening to do such, for you and them disagreeing, it is time to step down.
I was on one board where the the founder of the board, resigned when the designer of the equipment the board was about, started banning due to people (including myself) quoting their posts about when this or that product would be available. People were making financial decisions based on those posts and that poster was stringing them along. That board is mostly silent now, with every once in a while that supplier wants to have a what do you want next discussion, which brings back the old posts.
It is a kind of Napoleon complex.
While we do get annoyed at times, this is a good site so please let's not bash it. It helped me learn about things that I needed as it has others. Support has been provided for those who are facing a change or challenge in their life. Insights have been amazing and tech advice is always appreciated by this non-techie.
Let it go please and appreciate what is good and useful. A number of members have come on to say that they lurked so lack of posts is not indicative of interest.
I hear you razz. You've always been a very positive presence here and I respect your opinion. I think it is easier for you to ignore because you have never been the target. By 'letting it go' we condone behavior that is hurtful to others. I'm not willing to do that. We all have the right to our value system. One of my values is that I do not condone or participate in behavior that is hurtful to others or that takes advantage of someone's good nature. And I'm not willing to be part of a community that does so. If that means I miss out on the positive elements of this community, then that is the price I'm willing to pay. Everyone gets to make their own choices on this. My conversation with Rob and others here is my way of living my values. I think the conversation is winding down and Rob and I will be able to move on pretty soon. I feel good that I've stood up for Rob and that he knows that he is valued by some of the members here. That has made this whole thing worthwhile. And I think he and I have both had some new insights to boot! :)
ToomuchStuff
7-25-17, 3:40pm
Rob - His reply is not meant as constructive dialogue, it's meant as sarcastic put down. Because you are earnest and sincere (and assume others are as well), you will ask him what he means, and he will coyly string you along with more sarcasm. It's a game designed to make him feel better at your expense.
Sarcasm is something that penetrates into the brain of Rob, and that has a chance of him getting it. Otherwise, there is a blank stare as stuff is so far beyond his ability to grasp.
You want an example, see post number 85 and then go read post 199, part A.
gimmethesimplelife
7-25-17, 3:46pm
I hear you razz. You've always been a very positive presence here and I respect your opinion. I think it is easier for you to ignore because you have never been the target. By 'letting it go' we condone behavior that is hurtful to others. I'm not willing to do that. We all have the right to our value system. One of my values is that I do not condone or participate in behavior that is hurtful to others or that takes advantage of someone's good nature. And I'm not willing to be part of a community that does so. If that means I miss out on the positive elements of this community, then that is the price I'm willing to pay. Everyone gets to make their own choices on this. My conversation with Rob and others here is my way of living my values. I think the conversation is winding down and Rob and I will be able to move on pretty soon. I feel good that I've stood up for Rob and that he knows that he is valued by some of the members here. That has made this whole thing worthwhile. And I think he and I have both had some new insights to boot! :)Thank You, Geila, Thank You very much. It is nice to know that there are those who value me here. Yes indeed. Rob
No it isn't. A moderator/administrator, while you may be able to use the ignore function between the ears, if they ask a question and your ignoring them, has the power to ban or cause you to be unable to post, as well as the ability to edit your posts. When they go threatening to do such, for you and them disagreeing, it is time to step down.
I was on one board where the the founder of the board, resigned when the designer of the equipment the board was about, started banning due to people (including myself) quoting their posts about when this or that product would be available. People were making financial decisions based on those posts and that poster was stringing them along. That board is mostly silent now, with every once in a while that supplier wants to have a what do you want next discussion, which brings back the old posts.
It is a kind of Napoleon complex.
"They make a desert and call it peace."
I've seen that happen on other boards. Only engaging the people with similar ideas and style to your own would be exceedingly dull.
Sorry, Alan, I don't follow you here. RobYou began the post referring to it as 'neutral' and ended the post inferring that posts were approved through a filter of social class. You gotta admit that is some funny stuff.
Rob - His reply is not meant as constructive dialogue, it's meant as sarcastic put down. Because you are earnest and sincere (and assume others are as well), you will ask him what he means, and he will coyly string you along with more sarcasm. It's a game designed to make him feel better at your expense.
?
gimmethesimplelife
7-25-17, 5:08pm
To go back to the spirit of the very beginning of this thread - here is another update about Mexico. My husband and I are crossing the border on Wednesday, August 3rd for the Birthday of a cousin of his and I will also go to the dentist and get a new dental night guard as my old one is falling apart. Much less expensive there and what else is great is that the turnaround on getting the night guard into my hands is one hour as the dental lab is on site. So a little bit of personal, a little bit of business.
I'm not as worried about crossing this time based on my smooth experience last week. We'll see but I'm not as worried as I was. Rob
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