Getting A Life (Your Money or Your Life sequel)

[happystuff]

Well, sort of the sequel. Anyway, I just started reading it - again. While I have not formally put the YMOYL steps into practice, we do live a frugal lifestyle and do okay financially. The somewhat depressing part is that the basis of the book seems focused on "walking away" from formal employment and I know we will never be able to do that. While part of me is someone jealous of folks who do or can, another part of me is actually okay with continuing to work. I'm lucky to enjoy the majority of what I do and like the people I work with.

With regards to debt/savings/investments - I rather happy that the only debt we have is the mortgage, which I can actually - visually - see an end too! And saving has always been one of my stronger points. Investments are where my weaknesses lie. But... I'll keep reading and, hopefully, learning.

[catherine]

Well, sort of the sequel. Anyway, I just started reading it - again. While I have not formally put the YMOYL steps into practice, we do live a frugal lifestyle and do okay financially. The somewhat depressing part is that the basis of the book seems focused on "walking away" from formal employment and I know we will never be able to do that. While part of me is someone jealous of folks who do or can, another part of me is actually okay with continuing to work. I'm lucky to enjoy the majority of what I do and like the people I work with.

With regards to debt/savings/investments - I rather happy that the only debt we have is the mortgage, which I can actually - visually - see an end too! And saving has always been one of my stronger points. Investments are where my weaknesses lie. But... I'll keep reading and, hopefully, learning.

Yeah, there are a few books/money gurus that promote that: you have Mr. Money Mustache with FIRE (financially independent, retiring early), and you have Jacob Lund Fisker with Early Retirement Extreme. From what I understand, those authors don't define retirement as never working again. I think they suggest earning/saving the money that will give you the choice to do what you want in terms of paid or unpaid work. Otherwise, I agree with you. My main goal in life is NOT to stop working, but I would like the option to not work. At this point, it's too late for me to "retire early" and I won't even be retiring at the age many people retire (average retirement age in the US is 63), but that's where I am right now.

[Yppej]

After reading about Medicare recently I am thinking I will have to work until I drop dead. There are so many different parts most of which recipients have to pay premiums for, and "free" Part A which I've paid taxes for all these years, only covers 80% of costs. When it comes to medical care 20% is a huge number if you're old and sick.

[Tybee]

I read that book years ago and thought about it the other day. I wondered--did these numbers work out sustainably for them? I thought about them because they were in the Janet Luhrs book, too, and I was thinking about their book where they walked away from those jobs and she worked as a grad assistant for a while--so funny you mention them, I wonder how their numbers work out now. I was into this book and read it right after reading YMOYL and I wonder how they fared through some of the weird economic times we have had in the interim.

[ApatheticNoMore]

After reading about Medicare recently I am thinking I will have to work until I drop dead. There are so many different parts most of which recipients have to pay premiums for, and "free" Part A which I've paid taxes for all these years, only covers 80% of costs. When it comes to medical care 20% is a huge number if you're old and sick.

look into Medicare advantage, it's not an endorsement, I don't think it's a great program (mom on it), traditional Medicare is much better in all likelihood, but it is what people do if the supplemental insurance becomes untenable under traditional Medicare, you might be able to swing the supplemental insurance though, I don't think it's as ridiculous as medical costs before Medicare kicks in can be.

I think it's VERY reasonable for people not to retire BEFORE 65, primarily due to medical costs (not everyone has that option as some are forced out of the workplace at a certain age but assuming one does). Because paying one's own medical costs at say 60 - yea you need a lot of money for that. And employers that cover medical costs after someone has retired are few and far between indeed (it's about as likely as getting a pension - yea good luck with that!). But after 65 there are some more options, if they aren't ideal, eh well how many of the HMO plans people have through work are either, much of the time.

It's all well and good to say one will work into old age assuming people are willing to hire one for such, but what if one keeps getting into emotionally abusive workplaces? Like the emotional dysfunction in workplaces these days seems through the roof. Work was never the garden of Eden, it was work ok, it kinda sucks, but working conditions have gotten noticeably worse just in my working lifetime. And I don't even think I've even worked through any economic glory days and yet .... it gets worse and worse. And so "work it sucks, c'est la vie" becomes day by day survival. I suspect work stress may kill me at this point long before I even reach 65.

[Yppej]

It's all well and good to say one will work into old age assuming people are willing to hire one for such, but what if one keeps getting into emotional abusive workplaces? Like the emotional dysfunction in workplaces these days seems through the roof. Work was never the garden of Eden, it was work ok, but working conditions have gotten noticeably worse just in my working lifetime. I suspect work stress may kill me at this point long before I even reach 65.

Sorry you are going through this. I was there also but this year finally got laid off and was able to go to a decent company. It's hard to look while you're still working. Most places wanted daytime interviews on short notice.

[Teacher Terry]

Joe D. died of cancer at age 57. Last I heard his girlfriend was still doing fine. Their investing strategy would not work well now.

[Tybee]

Joe D. died of cancer at age 57. Last I heard his girlfriend was still doing fine. Their investing strategy would not work well now.
Terry, the Getting a Life book was by a couple who knew Joe and Vicki and followed their ideas; they were in the original book, and then they had their own book-- now I can't remember their names! It seemed like they met at At & T and he bought her garnet earrings one year and the next he bought her YMOYL and the rest was history, or something like that?

[Teacher Terry]

Yes Joe Dominquez but I could not remember her name. They were never married but lived together for decades.

[freshstart]

I didn't realize the author died at 57, for him it really was your money or your life in some ways

[Teacher Terry]

Yes I remember reading about it and was surprised. They seemed very happy with their lives.

[SteveinMN]

I think it's VERY reasonable for people not to retire BEFORE 65, primarily due to medical costs (not everyone has that option as some are forced out of the workplace at a certain age but assuming one does). Because paying one's own medical costs at say 60 - yea you need a lot of money for that. And employers that cover medical costs after someone has retired are few and far between indeed (it's about as likely as getting a pension - yea good luck with that!). But after 65 there are some more options, if they aren't ideal, eh well how many of the HMO plans people have through work are either, much of the time.

It's all well and good to say one will work into old age assuming people are willing to hire one for such, but what if one keeps getting into emotionally abusive workplaces?
I think that is what is behind the drive in these books to become FI or to walk away from the corporate jobs. In addition to the jobless recovery and the increasing push for automation and "doing more with less", some workplaces are dysfunctional (this always has been true). Additionally, ageism is rampant in many kinds of businesses. I saw an article in an on-line tech journal the other day about some guy who was in his 60s and newly-hired at Google or some such tech bright spot. It's rare enough to merit an article in a national business "publication". It's sad that people feel folks in their 50s and 60s (or older, I suppose) are incapable of keeping up with Millenials in the work force. If that perception is the reality, though, it makes sense for 50- and 60-year-olds to prepare themselves for the likelihood of losing a job and not being able to replace the income (nevermind the job). So either become FI or retire early or find a job someplace (one's own company?) at which you can't be laid off. That medical-cost issue, however, is the 800-pound gorilla in the room. And, without trying to make this thread political, it will have quite an effect on 50- and 60-somethings trying to hold on to whatever keeps medical care affordable, which I expect will have a ripple effect on even the youngest workers.

[bae]

Additionally, ageism is rampant in many kinds of businesses. I saw an article in an on-line tech journal ....

I "retired" in 1999, at the age of 36, after reading and pondering YMOYL. At that time, in my field in Silicon Valley, looking around I saw almost nobody much over the age of 40 except in some of the more managerial positions. This problem still persists - most of my peers at the time have had to deal with significant ageism over the past ~20 years.

I did *not* follow a YMOYL investment strategy, as in addition to income I wanted to Do Useful Things in the community with my capital.

[Williamsmith]

When I "retired" I had just turned 51. We had a mandatory retirement age of 60. There is no debate, being in law enforcement is a young person's game. I worked other jobs for another five years and at 56 left the workforce completely.

I dont require much. And it is a good thing because my pension will never increase a penny and I will never get a Social Security supplement. What that means is that as I age, I will also eventually drop into the ranks of "poor" by annual income. I am working on a plan to offset that but as costs rise, it is inevitable I will have to cut out some discretionary spending. Any reduction in my pension would mean my lifestyle would suffer a critical blow. And any change in my healthcare plan would be devastating.

[catherine]

In my field (pharmaceuticals), there is ageism. One of my clients worked for a major pharma company and he saw a lot of 50/60-somethings put out to pasture. He had just remarried and had a pretty young son, so he quit and started his own business. He's doing really well, and he's now in his late 50s. If he wanted to, he could sell his business (he's already had offers) or continue working for many more years.

I read a lot about the gig economy and as one who is riding it, I hope it gains traction. It's another way to stop being a wage slave and gain more of a sense of freedom. I know it depends on how comfortable you are with risk and uncertainty, but given the choice, I choose freedom over "job security." And of course, the point that YMOL makes is that you minimize risk by minimizing spending and maximizing savings.

[Sad Eyed Lady]

Yes Joe Dominquez but I could not remember her name. They were never married but lived together for decades.

Vicki Robbins.

[happystuff]

Getting a Life was written by Jacqueline Blix and David Heitmiller, while Your Money Or Your Life was written by Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin.

I completely agree with the "ageism" comments. I have been with my current company for over 13 years and have looked for a job outside this company a couple times in the last 5. With companies looking right at the resumes first now, my problem is that companies only want to see the employment for the last 5-8 years. Someone who stays in the same company doesn't really have too much to list on a resume. At least, that is my thinking at this point in time. If I happen to list jobs/experiences prior to the present, it's very easy to tell I'm old. LOL. My saving grace is that I now really like the particular work I'm doing, so hopefully it will last another 10 or so years.

[Tybee]

Here is a link to the book I thought the OP was discussing, by Blix and Heitmiller:
https://www.amazon.com/Getting-Life-Lives-Transformed-Money/dp/0670870498/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=CFT8RHM3SZ2J9HY3BMGX

They were the couple who were both working at At & T (I think) and she went back to grad school.

At least this is the book I thought OP was rereading. I read it back in 1999, I believe, as my oldest son was still in high school, and their journey was very inspiring.

[catherine]

Here is a link to the book I thought the OP was discussing, by Blix and Heitmiller:
https://www.amazon.com/Getting-Life-Lives-Transformed-Money/dp/0670870498/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=CFT8RHM3SZ2J9HY3BMGX

They were the couple who were both working at At & T (I think) and she went back to grad school.

At least this is the book I thought OP was rereading. I read it back in 1999, I believe, as my oldest son was still in high school, and their journey was very inspiring.

Thanks for the clarification. I was a little confused!

[Teacher Terry]

Getting a Life was a good book too. Someone by the name of Breen wrote about her and her DH's experiences leaving the corporate world. She had been an attorney. Both these books came after Your money or your life. I gave away the books recently otherwise I would look up the name of the last book.

[JaneV2.0]

A friend's daughter went through flight attendant training with a sixty year old, and in one of my last gigs, a fellow trainee was sixty-five, so getting hired late in life (i was over fifty when hired for three of my last jobs) isn't unheard-of. I was lucky to have had full medical coverage when I retired from corporate employment at 47.
So many people are locked into dismal employment by their need for medical insurance. For awhile, I thought that had changed.

[LDAHL]

I always thought that if you scrape off the self-helpy twelve-steppery and New Age candy coating, YMOYL and it’s offshoots is really about applying basic financial concepts to obtain and maintain the capital needed to optimize your level of material freedom. Detailed accounting, cashflow forecasting, return on investment, marginal utility and other ideas that any corporate finance type would be familiar with. I suspect that it was aimed more at an audience that would be loath to think they were acting like any competent CFO would. They probably wouldn’t have gotten the same response with a book titled “What would ExxonMobile do?”.

[JaneV2.0]

One of my grandfathers was a CFO. I probably would never have picked up that book...

[happystuff]

The saving/simple living part in the book just seems to follow the same line as most of the other voluntary simplicity type books. I remember reading YMOYL way back when for the financial information. I'm a saver, but investing is not my really my forte. Now, I'm thinking it may be too late for any real long-term investing and that maybe I should just concentrate saving.

[Tybee]

Happystuff, if you are a good saver, you are halfway there to being a good investor!
Try automating an investing account with Vanguard index funds-- Google the lazy three fund portfolio at Boglehead forums.

[happystuff]

Thanks Tybee. Most of the investments I've actually looked into have want initial investments of a couple thousand dollars... that just isn't possible for us. I do have the standard 401K and IRA setups, but beyond that, I'm not sure that anything else would be feasible. While I am a saver, but the income is... let's just say it is "limited".... lol. At this stage I try to put whatever I can into our IRAs and keep regular savings available for kids-in-college expenses.

[catherine]

Thanks Tybee. Most of the investments I've actually looked into have want initial investments of a couple thousand dollars...

I'm far from an expert, but I'd check into that. I do Tybee's "lazy Vanguard" strategy for my Roth, but I did kick-start it with the maximum allowable. However, there have to be mutual funds with minimum investments. I wouldn't give up if I were you. I'm 65 and am looking forward to being able to let my money sit for hopefully a couple of decades.

[happystuff]

Thanks, catherine. And again, Tybee. I will look into the "lazy Vanguard".

[Tybee]

Thanks, catherine. And again, Tybee. I will look into the "lazy Vanguard".

Here's a good place to start your reading:
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Three-fund_portfolio#Lazy_portfolios

Good luck!