View Full Version : Trump's visit very stressful.....
gimmethesimplelife
8-22-17, 12:51pm
That's right, I'm in Phoenix and of course later today Donald Trump will be making an appearance here. I find the whole event extremely stressful. Many in the 85006 will be downtown protesting later today and the venue Trump is appearing at is very close to the 85006 - it's not hard to get there at all from this neighborhood. Where I find things stressful is that I am having some weird kind of hunch that something awful may happen - I don't claim to read the future but I have had hunches before - usually somehow involved with death - that have turned out to be true - not always, just sometimes. But it's enough to keep me away from the protests.
I tried to get my husband to not work downtown today but he says it will be overrun with security and he's not afraid and wants the $25 an hour - he talked them up after the temp service tried to get me to go for $25 an hour - he says with this extra money he will do something special for the two of us. It's hard not to like that but I'd rather he be safe and not downtown. But so it is.
What is even more stressful to me is that last night I became sick - not hospital check in sick Thank Goodness - just nausea and throwing up a lot but it doesn't have the underling awfulness to it that my liver infection did. I believe it's just nerves from the stress of being looked down on for not going to the protest.....it's been hard to deal with 85006 social disapproval but one quirk of my personality is that when I have a hunch I go with it and social disapproval only makes me go with my hunches even more, and it doesn't matter where the social disapproval comes from - it can be lateral social class disapproval like in this case and I still don't yield.
I do respect all the protesters going downtown today - from the 85006 and otherwise - but I'm not equal to it. I truly have a hunch something awful is going to happen. I think I'll drop by the neighborhood Catholic church - though I don't know if the doors are open after morning mass - and see if I can get in to light a candle or two for peace downtown today. Please, all of you that are willing to, please send good thoughts not to the 85006 but rather to the downtown Convention Center where Trump will be appearing. Just good thoughts of peace and no insane drama........and I'm off to make some ginger tea for my nausea. I hope some here will understand my reasons for not going downtown today........Rob
PS Came back to add that I just got a call from the girlfriend of the roofer a few doors down - she's not going either, at the request of her boyfriend. I'm glad to not be alone in this but I don't like the boyfriend's reason - he said he's afraid that if Trump is here to grant a pardon to Arpaio this may escalate things between the police and the protesters and the police may just start gunning protestors down, knowing that as American police they will at most get a slap on the wrist and face no real consequences. I actually hadn't thought of that - my hunch was more along the lines of something happening to Trump, but I could totally see this happening, too. Jeepers I'm glad my husband will be working indoors and not outside protesting!!!!! A very scary day today - the more I think of it, the more I worry for all the protestors (and it's not just the 85006, I understand there a busloads of college kids coming over from Arizona State University to protest, along with some coming up from U of A in Tucson and my alma mater, NAU in Flagstaff - young people with their whole lives ahead of them vulnerable to the American police. I can't help but be very afraid. Let's hope that nothing bad happens and even if there are skirmishes, no deaths. Please, no deaths. On either side of the equation - no deaths. Rob
I'm sorry that you're feeling stressed out and sick. (((((hugs)))))
You don't have to feel guilty or apologize for not participating in the protest. I understand that it might feel uncomfortable if you're friends and neighbors perceive that as a betrayal to their situation. It might make you feel that they will believe you don't support them after all. Which is not true. I think the best you can do is communicate your fears for possible danger and explain that you don't think it wise to attend. And then focus on whatever you need to do to feel calm while your husband works the event. I think going to the church is a great idea.
Try to remember that we can be active and effective in many different ways. With your command of the language and your writing skills, you can write letters to elected officials that probably many of your friends and neighbors cannot. You might use your time at church today to think of ways that you can advocate for your community with the skills and advantages you have. For example, each time you write a letter to an elected official, you can include signatures of support from your community to make them feel included and supported.
Sending good thoughts your way and hoping your husband will be safe. I can imagine that having him there at the event would be very stressful and anxiety-producing. You love him and want him to be safe. That's completely understandable.
flowerseverywhere
8-22-17, 6:00pm
Did you watch the Charlottesville footage? If anything I would be far less afraid of police brutality than the police holding back and some of these hateful people escalating to violence.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P54sP0Nlngg&oref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F&has_verified=1&layout=tablet&client=mv-google
this is an HBO documentary of the hateful groups that were there. The police did not rush in. Since everyone is so intent on filming them to try to catch them doing something wrong they can sue about, they appear to be very hands off. They are human beings after all. The hateful rhetoric that is spewed by the alt right protesters takes your breath away. It at this point no matter what they do everyone is going to blame the police.
You are right to stay home. Being fearful in a situation where you have to be hyper,aware and ready to react at anything is not a good situation for someone that feels panicky to start with.
I am am interested to see if Arpaio will be pardoned. If so, I imagine there will be a lot of angst and protests.
Better to be safe to resist another day than to be gassed or assaulted in some melee. Personally, I wouldn't want to attend a Trump rally under any circumstances; I would probably get myself in trouble. Stay safe. Take the time to write letters, send emails, call your reps, till your garden, take a soothing bath...
I wouldn't be too concerned during his visit unless the protesters get squirrely. Unfortunately, they almost always do, so you're probably better off staying home.
Ultralight
8-22-17, 9:20pm
Get a grip, Rob!
I hate it when any President visits a town I'm in, even without protesters it bollixes up traffic, on land and in the air.
I would stay home with a cuppa, music or a book, a cat, and a quilt. Needless to say, a total news blackout.
It took me over 30 minutes after work to drive four miles. Because the convention center is right between my work and my home. 😜
Based on the news reports I'm seeing this morning, sounds like you made a good call not to go Rob.
I was glad to see your violent fantasies weren't realized.
The "American police" didn't "start gunning protesters down" despite what appeared to me to be a good bit of provocation. They seemed to do a pretty fair job of keeping opposing camps of imbeciles from savaging each other, for which I'm sure they will get a lot of after-action criticism. "A policeman's lot is not a happy one."
Trump did his Trumpy thing, feeding off the dark energies of his supporters without saying much of substance. His enemies shrieked in rage and frustration outside, which they seemed to find cathartic. The media collected their quota of sound bites. Various public servants earned some overtime. Everybody pretty much got what they came for.
"A good bit of provocation"?? According to the local newspaper, none of the protestors crossed the barrier lines established by police.
One eyewitness saw an empty water bottle lobbed towards the police line, and police "responded with tear gas and rubber bullets. I saw several people get hit. They opened fire into areas where no one threw anything."
People have been blinded and even killed by rubber bullets, although luckily not this time. Now there's going to be an inquiry into what's being described as police over-reaction.
In a related news item, yet another assertion on Twitter and Craigslist that the protestors at the Trump rally were paid. I guess we should no longer be surprised how fervently many Republicans believe this.
Make America Think Again.
"A good bit of provocation"?? According to the local newspaper, none of the protestors crossed the barrier lines established by police.
One eyewitness saw an empty water bottle lobbed towards the police line, and police "responded with tear gas and rubber bullets. I saw several people get hit. They opened fire into areas where no one threw anything."
People have been blinded and even killed by rubber bullets, although luckily not this time. Now there's going to be an inquiry into what's being described as police over-reaction.
In a related news item, yet another assertion on Twitter and Craigslist that the protestors at the Trump rally were paid. I guess we should no longer be surprised how fervently many Republicans believe this.
Make America Think Again.
The police have a different story, from what I've read.
"A good bit of provocation"?? According to the local newspaper, none of the protestors crossed the barrier lines established by police.
One eyewitness saw an empty water bottle lobbed towards the police line, and police "responded with tear gas and rubber bullets. I saw several people get hit. They opened fire into areas where no one threw anything."
I think you have to take this sort of accusation with a grain of salt. Why throw an empty plastic bottle, and how would an "eyewitness" know it was empty? One of the issues police routinely have to deal with in situations like this is protesters lobbing water bottles filled with urine and worse. Once an "eyewitness" begins creating facts to advance a narrative everything else becomes suspicious.
In a related news item, yet another assertion on Twitter and Craigslist that the protestors at the Trump rally were paid. I guess we should no longer be surprised how fervently many Republicans believe this.
There's a great deal of historical precedence to make it easy to believe. My city was home to an international fruit company for many years with extensive farming interests in Central and South America. One of our local Nun/Professor at local college ran an advocacy group which routinely paid a good percentage of our local homeless shelter residents to inflate numbers at her organized protests against the company. Protests are all about drawing attention, and sometimes you have to pay for it.
"A good bit of provocation"?? According to the local newspaper, none of the protestors crossed the barrier lines established by police.
One eyewitness saw an empty water bottle lobbed towards the police line, and police "responded with tear gas and rubber bullets. I saw several people get hit. They opened fire into areas where no one threw anything."
People have been blinded and even killed by rubber bullets, although luckily not this time. Now there's going to be an inquiry into what's being described as police over-reaction.
In a related news item, yet another assertion on Twitter and Craigslist that the protestors at the Trump rally were paid. I guess we should no longer be surprised how fervently many Republicans believe this.
Make America Think Again.
I heard an interview with a demonstrator who was gassed; she adamantly stated there were no rocks or bottles thrown in her vicinity.
There are more than enough of us on the left who are outraged enough to protest--and from my experience, the 1% are more careful of their money than this particular fable would imply.
Once an "eyewitness" begins creating facts to advance a narrative everything else becomes suspicious.
The police also have an equally compelling reason to advance a narrative that justifies their reaction. Why should anyone believe their version of the story any more than the other eyewitnesses.
How far could someone throw an empty water bottle? I wouldn't think you could get much distance.
The police also have an equally compelling reason to advance a narrative that justifies their reaction. Why should anyone believe their version of the story any more than the other eyewitnesses.
You shouldn't. Most people will believe or reject any narrative based upon their personal feelings. A smart person will question all.
Of course if everyone takes rob's advice and videos the event then we dont have to have a he said/she said. Or at least we're less likely to.
gimmethesimplelife
8-23-17, 4:17pm
Of course if everyone takes rob's advice and videos the event then we dont have to have a he said/she said. Or at least we're less likely to.Bingo...Thank You for understanding that. Were I there I would have videoed EVERYTHING and I'd be quite popular today with people wanting my video for lawsuit potential......though I have a hard time believing that others there were not taping. Someone will step forward with some juicy video, watch.....Rob
If the cops issue a lawful order to disperse, and you refuse it and subsequently get gassed or otherwise hurt, do you have any grounds for a lawsuit (juicy video notwithstanding)? Absent unreasonable use of force or some other element? You don't often hear of claims getting successfully pursued in cases like this, although I suppose it's possible.
These things always seem like a no-win situation for the cops. Act too gently, and you're accused of standing by while one group attacked another or property got destroyed. Act too vigorously, and it's called police brutality.
These things always seem like a no-win situation for the cops. Act too gently, and you're accused of standing by while one group attacked another or property got destroyed. Act too vigorously, and it's called police brutality.
One of my neighbors is Norm Stamper, who was the Chief of the Seattle PD during the WTO riots 1999, the "Battle of Seattle". I've had many fascinating conversations with him on this topic. My conclusion - there's really no way to win at the police/enforcement level of things - the solutions lie elsewhere.
What is even more stressful to me is that last night I became sick - not hospital check in sick Thank Goodness - just nausea and throwing up a lot but it doesn't have the underling awfulness to it that my liver infection did. I believe it's just nerves from the stress of being looked down on for not going to the protest.....it's been hard to deal with 85006 social disapproval but ...
I am saddened by this, and feel bad for you Rob.
That's a lame batch of neighbors who would disapprove of you because of *how* you choose to engage in your civic duties, especially when you aren't doing anything out of line. It doesn't sound like a healthy community.
If the cops issue a lawful order to disperse, and you refuse it and subsequently get gassed or otherwise hurt, do you have any grounds for a lawsuit (juicy video notwithstanding)? ... .
Many witnesses said No order to disperse was given before police used pepper spray and tear gas canisters. Two of those witnesses are a local city councilman and one of our federal representatives.
Let's hope the inquiry is fair.
iris lilies
8-23-17, 6:39pm
Many witnesses said No order to disperse was given before police used pepper spray and tear gas canisters. Two of those witnesses are a local city councilman and one of our federal representatives.
Let's hope the inquiry is fair.
Here with the Ferguson, MO riots in honor of Gentle Giant/Saint Michael Brown, it was a badge of honor for some of our local politicians to be seen in the unruly crowds and even to be arrested. It gave them cred. It was an election year for some of them, doncha know.
I imagine something similar could go on in your city.
Many witnesses said No order to disperse was given before police used pepper spray and tear gas canisters. Two of those witnesses are a local city councilman and one of our federal representatives.
Let's hope the inquiry is fair.Do they represent the 85006? I hear it takes a certain amount of street cred to be popular there.
iris lilies
8-24-17, 8:43am
Here in St. Louis the out of control cops shot another citizen. Some protesting in the street over this, and then a car ran into protestors allegedly on purpose.
I suppose it doesnt matter that the citizen came after a police officer with a knife and cut him, and the officers were on site to break up a knifing where the citizen had cut another. Interesting that the citizen was trans. It was a LGBT group out protesting.
http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/wow-air-known-for-international-flights-adds-service-to-st/article_f2293b71-c375-5ed1-9073-aa9c0b5c470d.html
O My conclusion - there's really no way to win at the police/enforcement level of things - the solutions lie elsewhere.
Where? Raising children who don't believe that you can change the world through vandalism?
Where? Raising children who don't believe that you can change the world through vandalism?
There is rarely vandalism at demonstrations--discounting paid provocateurs or a few--very few--troublemakers. Not at the level anyway, of the Boston Tea Party, for example. Citizens who don't have enough money to pay off representatives or buy lobbyists still--for the moment, anyway--have the absolute right to publicly register their opinions. Apparently, the police in Phoenix tried to abridge that right, which the ACLU is looking into.
Of the thousands there protesting Trump's policies, total arrests for the night = 4, including 1 juvenile. No property damage, no one killed. A number were injured from the pepper spray pellets and tear gas, including one Vietnam veteran who was carrying a sign "Veterans Against Intolerance."
The sign had a pellet hole in it, and his arm was bleeding where it was hit by a pellet.
That's what you get for exercising your "freedom" to lawfully protest.
...
There's a great deal of historical precedence to make it easy to believe. My city was home to an international fruit company for many years with extensive farming interests in Central and South America. One of our local Nun/Professor at local college ran an advocacy group which routinely paid a good percentage of our local homeless shelter residents to inflate numbers at her organized protests against the company. Protests are all about drawing attention, and sometimes you have to pay for it.
]
Quite an anecdote. The inflated numbers I recall were those thousands of Catholic school teens who were routinely bussed to the annual anti-abortion march in Washington, D.C. They got out of the school for the day for a field trip and got to be on television. Wonder who paid for that?
In the meantime, some of my friends are still waiting for their check from George Soros [who is always mentioned as the payor of any anti-establishment protest]. I imagine he's been quite busy what with the million women march, etc. etc.
There is rarely vandalism at demonstrations--.
Tell that to Seattle.
Tell that to Seattle.
Keyword being rarely.
Keyword being rarely.
Tell that to Baltimore.
Tell that to Ferguson.
Tell that to Milwaukee.
Tell that to Berkeley.
Tell that to Washington DC.
Tell that to Portland.
Tell that to Baltimore.
Tell that to Ferguson.
Tell that to Milwaukee.
Tell that to Berkeley.
Tell that to Washington DC.
Tell that to Portland.
Local authorities were the provocateurs in many of these cases. Nonetheless, there have been many more peaceful and orderly demonstrations than otherwise--they just don't get much press. Thus the "breaking eggs" concept.
Local authorities were the provocateurs in many of these cases. .
Sure. The cops made them break those windows, loot those stores and torch those cars.
gimmethesimplelife
8-25-17, 11:21am
I'm glad some time has passed and Trump has come and gone and left Arizona alive and in one piece, and that even though tear gas was used on the protestors after Trump's embarrassing speech, at least there were only four arrests and no major injuries or deaths. My hunch was wrong and I'm very happy about that - I was afraid someone might gun down Trump and swarms of media from all over the world might swoop down on Phoenix, or that martial law might get declared with resulting complete and total disrespect for human life and the resulting deaths such governmental overreach brings about with it. Luckily, none of this came to pass and once again, I'm very happy. My husband lived to tell the tale and is safe and is excited for the huge check he will be bringing in - 14 hours that day at $25/hour - even after taxes that's still quite a boost. He wants us to go back to Nogales to spend some time with his family in Colonia Kennedy. So maybe something good will come of this visit for me, after all. Just happy it's done and I sincerely hope Arizona stays off Trump's radar screen going forward - though with Arpaio as an issue, and with both John McCain and Jeff Flake against him - unlikely. I'm of the opinion that this is not the last we will be seeing of Trump's appearances in Arizona.....Rob
gimmethesimplelife
8-25-17, 11:24am
Of the thousands there protesting Trump's policies, total arrests for the night = 4, including 1 juvenile. No property damage, no one killed. A number were injured from the pepper spray pellets and tear gas, including one Vietnam veteran who was carrying a sign "Veterans Against Intolerance."
The sign had a pellet hole in it, and his arm was bleeding where it was hit by a pellet.
That's what you get for exercising your "freedom" to lawfully protest.Lainey, I heard that lawsuits are in the process of being filed against these injustices. Hopefully (though I rather doubt it) there will be no gag orders on settlement amounts so as to encourage others to sue in similar situations - to use law enforcement for what it's good for - monetary settlements.
That all said, I'm very grateful that things did not turn out much worse as I was afraid of/expecting. Breathing a sigh of relief that all the protestors I know from the 85006 came back alive and in one piece. Things could have ended out much worse. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
8-25-17, 11:25am
"A good bit of provocation"?? According to the local newspaper, none of the protestors crossed the barrier lines established by police.
One eyewitness saw an empty water bottle lobbed towards the police line, and police "responded with tear gas and rubber bullets. I saw several people get hit. They opened fire into areas where no one threw anything."
People have been blinded and even killed by rubber bullets, although luckily not this time. Now there's going to be an inquiry into what's being described as police over-reaction.
In a related news item, yet another assertion on Twitter and Craigslist that the protestors at the Trump rally were paid. I guess we should no longer be surprised how fervently many Republicans believe this.
Make America Think Again.Lainey, you were there? I so respect you for going - very much so. I am sorry that I was not equal to your courage here. Thank You for being present and witnessing events unfold. Rob
No, I was not there but one of my friends was there. Thankfully she left just before the tear gassing, etc. I was quoting from a news article from eyewitness reports.
gimmethesimplelife
8-25-17, 11:34am
You shouldn't. Most people will believe or reject any narrative based upon their personal feelings. A smart person will question all.I disagree. I have seen enough illegal actions engaged in by American police in my lifetime that they have earned permanent distrust from me as a thinking person. My take is that I would need an attorney present even in a non-confrontational social situation with an officer off duty wishing to discuss something as benign as the weather - I still would need the situation filmed for protection and an attorney present before I would speak of something as innocent as the weather to an out of uniform, off duty officer. The police have earned this as a far as I am concerned and my take of self preservation is sane, sound, and simply practical behavior given the givens.
Don't see it this way? Then please explain the actions of Minneapolis, MN police officer Noor, who gunned down a 40 year old Australian National named Justine Damond for no justifiable reason whatsoever. I have no death wish and therefore would need any interaction with police recorded and to have an attorney present at city expense. And yes, America has sunk to this - and for the lower classes, this is nothing new - America has been like this for years. It's just now coming to light with smartphone video showing the world what American police truly are all about and how the rule of law means nothing for American police officers. At least the world is seeing what America is truly about now - for this one thing I am very grateful. Rob
I disagree. I have seen enough illegal actions engaged in by American police in my lifetime that they have earned permanent distrust from me as a thinking person. My take is that I would need an attorney present even in a non-confrontational social situation with an officer off duty wishing to discuss something as benign as the weather - I still would need the situation filmed for protection and an attorney present before I would speak of something as innocent as the weather to an out of uniform, off duty officer. The police have earned this as a far as I am concerned and my take of self preservation is sane, sound, and simply practical behavior given the givens. Don't see it this way? Then please explain the actions of Minneapolis, MN police officer Noor, who gunned down a 40 year old Australian National named Justine Damond for no justifiable reason whatsoever. I have no death wish and therefore would need any interaction with police recorded and to have an attorney present at city expense. And yes, America has sunk to this - and for the lower classes, this is nothing new - America has been like this for years. It's just now coming to light with smartphone video showing the world what American police truly are all about and how the rule of law means nothing for American police officers. At least the world is seeing what America is truly about now - for this one thing I am very grateful. Rob
On a scale of 1 to 10 I'll give that a 5. Entertaining but overly dramatic.
gimmethesimplelife
8-25-17, 11:40am
I'm sorry that you're feeling stressed out and sick. (((((hugs)))))
You don't have to feel guilty or apologize for not participating in the protest. I understand that it might feel uncomfortable if you're friends and neighbors perceive that as a betrayal to their situation. It might make you feel that they will believe you don't support them after all. Which is not true. I think the best you can do is communicate your fears for possible danger and explain that you don't think it wise to attend. And then focus on whatever you need to do to feel calm while your husband works the event. I think going to the church is a great idea.
Try to remember that we can be active and effective in many different ways. With your command of the language and your writing skills, you can write letters to elected officials that probably many of your friends and neighbors cannot. You might use your time at church today to think of ways that you can advocate for your community with the skills and advantages you have. For example, each time you write a letter to an elected official, you can include signatures of support from your community to make them feel included and supported.
Sending good thoughts your way and hoping your husband will be safe. I can imagine that having him there at the event would be very stressful and anxiety-producing. You love him and want him to be safe. That's completely understandable.Geila, Thank You for your kind post, I really do appreciate it. And I believe you have a good point - there are other ways to try to effect change other than protesting. I have often thought that I should be using my writing skills in some way to agitate for positive change - Thanks for that reminder!
I went to mass the morning after Trump's visit and lit four candles out of gratitude that drama of the magnitude I was fearing did not take place, and it was very comforting to me to be there. Thank You also for your understanding of how worried I was for my husband - it was very trying for me to have him be there right in the midst of everything and all I can say is even though he's going to get a huge check for the hours we worked that day at a one time wage of $25 an hour - I'd rather he stayed home anyway.....some things are more important than money to me, and this is one of them. I'm just very relieved that Trump has come and gone with minimal drama and minimal damage. Thanks again for your kind support, appreciated as always! Rob
gimmethesimplelife
8-25-17, 11:42am
On a scale of 1 to 10 I'll give that a 5. Entertaining but overly dramatic.Not if you'd had my life experiences and had witnessed police brutality take place right in front of you as I have. If anything, I'm being far too polite and holding back far too much in the light of the reality of American police and how those beneath the middle class are treated by law enforcement in the US. It's not easy holding back when the truth is so obvious and so evident and so many people refuse to see.....give me some credit please for not being more real and more direct. Rob
I'm sure the police would just as well stay out of the 85006 as well. Can't your community get together and tell the law enforcement people to stay away? I'm sure that would make everyone happy.
Not if you'd had my life experiences and had witnessed police brutality take place right in front of you as I have. If anything, I'm being far too polite and holding back far too much in the light of the reality of American police and how those beneath the middle class are treated by law enforcement in the US. It's not easy holding back when the truth is so obvious and so evident and so many people refuse to see.....give me some credit please for not being more real and more direct. Rob
i still thing you need counseling.
gimmethesimplelife
8-25-17, 12:30pm
Do they represent the 85006? I hear it takes a certain amount of street cred to be popular there.No street cred needed. Just an ability to see and deal in reality. That's all that's required by the residents of the 85006 - sad (a word Donald Trump likes to use) that such is so rare and difficult to find in elected officials.......Rob
No street cred needed. Just an ability to see and deal in reality. That's all that's required by the residents of the 85006 - sad (a word Donald Trump likes to use) that such is so rare and difficult to find in elected officials.......Rob
Ahhh, from what you said earlier I thought the 85006 was a more discerning bunch.
I believe it's just nerves from the stress of being looked down on for not going to the protest.....it's been hard to deal with 85006 social disapproval but one quirk of my personality is that when I have a hunch I go with it and social disapproval only makes me go with my hunches even more, and it doesn't matter where the social disapproval comes from - it can be lateral social class disapproval like in this case and I still don't yield.
gimmethesimplelife
8-25-17, 12:36pm
Ahhh, from what you said earlier I thought the 85006 was a more discerning bunch.? Not following you here, Alan, sorry.....Rob
? Not following you here, Alan, sorry.....Rob
You expressed regret at the social disapproval from your fellow 85006ers for not attending the required protests, and now that disapproval apparently doesn't apply to politicians. It is hard to follow a paradox.
gimmethesimplelife
8-25-17, 12:54pm
You expressed regret at the social disapproval from your fellow 85006ers for not attending the required protests, and now that disapproval apparently doesn't apply to politicians. It is hard to follow a paradox.You don't see an obvious glaring difference between the protestors of the 85006 (and elsewhere, too, to be fair) and elected officials? OK then, let me respectfully spell it out for you.
The protestors of the 85006 are protesting against conditions and a society in general that do not work for them - issues that to some degree elected officials are responsible for continuing/maintaining. There is a huge obvious difference here that I personally could see from the other side of the planet - it's that loud and obvious. Regardless, there's an explanation for you. Rob
Regardless, there's an explanation for you. RobThank you. It doesn't address the point but it is indeed an explanation. Thanks for that. :doh:
gimmethesimplelife
8-25-17, 1:03pm
Thank you. It doesn't address the point but it is indeed an explanation. Thanks for that. :doh:? I believe I addressed your point quite well, Alan, but at this point why don't we agree to disagree and let it go? I am of the opinion such is for the best. Rob
I was afraid ... that martial law might get declared with resulting complete and total disrespect for human life and the resulting deaths such governmental overreach brings about with it.
"Martial law" is a monster-under-the-bed used to frighten small children and yank the chains of conspiracy theorists and flat-earthers. Effective civic participation requires fact-based reasoning, not fear-mongering.
I recommend Rehnquist's nice little book to folks frequently:
https://legalenglishinnovation.com.co/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/All-the-laws-but-one-600x600.png
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