View Full Version : I don't get the big deal...
frugal-one
11-17-17, 4:30pm
I am happy to pay taxes for services I receive. Somebody needs to pay taxes! I don't want the national debt to continue to grow. I truly hope the tax plan that is being proposed is shut down in the senate!!!!
The other thing is making a big deal about more jobs in some states. For example, WI has a very low unemployment rate and Walker is boasting how he is getting more jobs to the state. I have read that there is going to be a worker shortage. Does this make sense?
ETA... Just heard one large business owner state that the tax breaks he will receive will not be passed down to employees but to shareholders. hmmm
I am happy to pay taxes for services I receive.
Are you happy with the services you receive?
Of those services, which are provided by local taxing districts, and which are provided by the Federal government?
I don't want the national debt to continue to grow.
What is the "national debt"? Who owns it? In a healthy economy, would the debt grow or shrink as the economy grew or shrunk? Is the "national debt" necessary?
frugal-one
11-17-17, 4:42pm
Are you happy with the services you receive?
Of those services, which are provided by local taxing districts, and which are provided by the Federal government?
What is the "national debt"? Who owns it? In a healthy economy, would the debt grow or shrink as the economy grew or shrunk? Is the "national debt" necessary?
You missed the point of my post!
My point was.... I am happy to pay taxes. I am happy with the services I now receive. I don't want debt to increase period (national or local)! The small community where I now live is ridiculous, as well, in how they are spending money and incurring debt.
You missed the point of my post!
I was trying to tease out more detail.
The overwhelming portion of the services I use on a regular basis are provided by my local governmental entities - junior taxing districts (for fire, health, library, schools, airports and marine ports), the county (roads, marine transport, law enforcement, environmental protection, building code compliance/safety, ...), and the state (environmental protection, schools). Very little is directly provided or funded by the federal government.
I am not so keen on huge amounts of tax dollars being spent on a military that costs more than what the rest of the planet combined spends on theirs. I think there needs to be a reexamination of just what we are spending our federal tax dollars on.
I'm not opposed in principle to lowering taxes, but the proposed "plan" on the table in the House is a bit nonsensical to me.
As to the "national debt" - some deeper understanding is helpful before declaring it good/bad too-big/too-little....
frugal-one
11-17-17, 8:10pm
National debt in the trillions is too much .. any way you look a it. I agree there needs to be a reexamination of what we are spending our dollars on.
They say our state economy is at "full employment". I see the logic of a stimulus plan when the economy is doing poorly, but I only see inflation and a labor shortages in my area if the tax cut incentives affect us here.
My concept of national debt compares to a home loan that can go on forever and with few defined upper limits, but a debt ceiling related to GNP that could spell problems if it's exceeded.
ApatheticNoMore
11-17-17, 9:43pm
Jobs are not the problem, people might get a wage increase (wouldn't that be novel, being real wages haven't increased in 40 years, starts to seem almost scary at that point). Now whether aomething would actually lead to jobs and what type of jobs they are matters of course. I don't think states can really do an actual stimulus in the strict Keynesian sense as they are limited in how much they can deficit spend and you can't really do stimulus without deficit spending - you could at best maybe do a jobs program (sometimes they can't deficit spend at all by their state laws I believe, but even states that sometimes deficit have limits - yes even California had to get a rainy day fund - and it never even rains :~)).
National debt in the trillions is too much .. any way you look a it. I agree there needs to be a reexamination of what we are spending our dollars on.
The amount of interest paid on the debt every year is huge - whenever rates go back up, it's going to be much, much worse.
But in an environment where they are ready to rack up huge deficits to provide tax cuts for the wealthy, I don't see them ever addressing the national debt.
I think there is something to be learned from how the various states approach matters. Kansas seems to have shown us the problems of an extreme red-state model. Illinois is in the process of demonstrating the problems of an extreme blue-state model.
iris lilies
11-20-17, 9:35am
I think there is something to be learned from how the various states approach matters. Kansas seems to have shown us the problems of an extreme red-state model. Illinois is in the process of demonstrating the problems of an extreme blue-state model.
I am looking at property in Illinois, but DH refuses to move there due to state finances. Still, I look.
dado potato
11-20-17, 10:17am
iris lilies,
Have you considered the prospect for tax increases in IL? Illinois is by no means the only state with an extreme problem of underfunded pensions, but it seems to me that politicians in IL are running out of space to kick the can down the road.
Each year since 2014, IL population has decreased. In contrast the population of all the contiguous states plus MN and MI have increased.
Wealthy Illinoisians reportedly are leaving the state more rapidly than people of lesser means.
According to a report from Moody's Investor Services: "Population loss can be a cause, as well as an effect, of economic deterioration. A self-reinforcing cycle of population loss and economic stagnation could greatly complicate IL's efforts to stabilize its finances. Not only is IL caught in a political stalemate over how to address fallout from a tax cut that took effect two years ago; but its operating budget faces a long-term challenge from steadily mounting pension-funding requirements."
iris lilies
11-20-17, 10:21am
iris lilies,
Have you considered the prospect for tax increases in IL? Illinois is by no means the only state with an extreme problem of underfunded pensions, but it seems to me that politicians in IL are running out of space to kick the can down the road.
Each year since 2014, IL population has decreased. In contrast the population of all the contiguous states plus MN and MI have increased.
Wealthy Illinoisians reportedly are leaving the state more rapidly than people of lesser means.
According to a report from Moody's Investor Services: "Population loss can be a cause, as well as an effect, of economic deterioration. A self-reinforcing cycle of population loss and economic stagnation could greatly complicate IL's efforts to stabilize its finances. Not only is IL caught in a political stalemate over how to address fallout from a tax cut that took effect two years ago; but its operating budget faces a long-term challenge from steadily mounting pension-funding requirements."
Yes DH! I mean dado. i get it, you sound just like him.
No Illinois property for me! :(
Yes DH! I mean dado. i get it, you sound just like him.
No Illinois property for me! :(
When we have thought of going back to Chicagoland area, we've decided the Dells would be close enough. And there is an Amtrak train to Chicago that stops in Wisconsin Dells.
I never thought I'd see the day when Wisconsin was looked at as a tax haven.
dado potato
11-20-17, 2:24pm
<wink> Wisconsin is more of a cheese haven!
In November 2017 Kiplinger Magazine ranked states on how tax-friendly they are for retired persons. Alaska, Wyoming, and South Dakota seem to be the top 3 states, per Kiplinger Magazine.
Williamsmith
11-20-17, 3:20pm
<wink> Wisconsin is more of a cheese haven!
In November 2017 Kiplinger Magazine ranked states on how tax-friendly they are for retired persons. Alaska, Wyoming, and South Dakota seem to be the top 3 states, per Kiplinger Magazine.
Most young people can’t handle the isolation and starkness of those three states...let alone retired people.
Williamsmith
11-20-17, 3:29pm
Pennsylvania does not tax retirement pensions however, there is a storm rumbling on the horizon that could result in taxes that will cut into ones nest egg. The young working class tax base is vaporizing. And this could send a chilly wind into your savings in the future. I have tried to prepare my better half for this and wish to bail out before everyone else realizes this.
Williamsmith
11-20-17, 3:32pm
Real estate taxes in Illinois ...a real problem. Yes.
Teacher Terry
11-20-17, 3:46pm
Tybee, the Dells is to cold in the winter. Heck it is too cold some summers:))
Tybee, the Dells is to cold in the winter. Heck it is too cold some summers:))
I lived in Baraboo for a couple of years and liked it. Far enough away from the Water Park traffic in Lake Delton, but close enough to be accessible.
Yossarian
11-20-17, 7:56pm
Real estate taxes in Illinois ...a real problem. Yes.
Maybe. I live in downtown Chicago. Quick math tells me I am paying about 1.5% a year in property tax. That of course could go up but it is not much more than the 1.2% I paid in Georgia or anywhere near the 4% some of my friends pay in NJ
iris lilies
11-20-17, 9:22pm
Maybe. I live in downtown Chicago. Quick math tells me I am paying about 1.5% a year in property tax. That of course could go up but it is not much more than the 1.2% I paid in Georgia or anywhere near the 4% some of my friends pay in NJ
In St. louis we are paying 1.28 % and that buys us shitty public schools, but thatbis a different topic.
The places in Belleville I look at seem to be closer to 2 - 3 %. But I dont have a good grasp on it. I
do know that the fabulous old house I love in Alton is currently listed under $300,000 and the taxes are $8,000 but that is an unusual case, the list price has been dropping for two years on it.
Maybe. I live in downtown Chicago. Quick math tells me I am paying about 1.5% a year in property tax. That of course could go up but it is not much more than the 1.2% I paid in Georgia or anywhere near the 4% some of my friends pay in NJ
You also have to consider that Chicago has one of the highest sales tax rates of big American cities. They have been debating a city income tax as well. Like the State, the City has been flirting with junk credit status for some time.
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