The 85006's latest issue with Trump

[gimmethesimplelife]

My neighborhood is all abuzz over Trump's latest.....apparently now for those who immigrate legally to the US, once you have a green card you can be denied citizenship (should you apply for it) if you or anyone in your household (assuming that you are not single) has ever used US public assistance of any kind.

On the one hand, there are those who abuse the limited benefits they can access, I won't deny that. On the other hand, given the low pay of the kinds of jobs most immigrants get vs. the nightmarishly rising costs in the US, this new policy reeks of inhumanity.

What do you think? I side with the 85006 and against the Thug of Orange. (I got tired of calling Trump the Orange Thug and am now calling him the Thug of Orange). Rob

[Alan]

Is there like an hourly opinion poll in the 85006 to keep up with the latest community outrage?

[gimmethesimplelife]

Is there like an hourly opinion poll in the 85006 to keep up with the latest community outrage?Unlike many Americans, most people know their neighbors where I live and speak to their neighbors about such issues on a frequent basis......no need to an hourly opinion poll, Alan. I am going to get feedback on the latest news just by walking down a street where I live as I know (on some level, it's not like I know all the intimate details of every last neighbor's life) my neighbors.....and of course, almost everyone is going to agree politically on the big issues facing both the 85006 and the big world beyond the 85006. No real need for an hourly poll - it's more like we keep each other informed as good neighbors do for one another in lower income areas - we don't have the standoffishness overall that you would find were you to drive three miles north of where I live to a much "nicer" area where there is going to be more distrust of neighbors and paranoia of loss or of threats that other people "represent".

One nice thing about where I live - any efforts to drive a wedge between neighbors here have proved fruitless. Wages overall are too low and there is too much blatant lack of social mobility/real opportunity for such to work here. Not a day passes where I am not grateful for this (meaning the inability to drive wedges between people in this neighborhood), but I will admit as an introvert the level of social activity expected where I live can be draining - that much I'd agree with. Rob

[Tradd]

Never mind. Read original post wrong.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Is there like an hourly opinion poll in the 85006 to keep up with the latest community outrage?This is not just a community outrage, Alan.....this is a direct hit on hard working low income immigrants. This is an outrage to anyone who is decended from those who stepped off boats at Ellis Island......those people had nothing, too....maybe they didn't have social welfare to fall back on but do we want immigrants to suffer if they fall on legitimate hard time through no fault of their own? I can see a point where if it's the immigrant's fault for their unfortunate life situations, but it is not always the immigrant's fault. Rob

[Teacher Terry]

I know my neighbors but didn’t discuss politics with anyone except for people I know that have similar views. The last thing I want to do is argue with people. If we are out and talking to people and they bring up politics we refuse to discuss it.

[Alan]

I know my neighbors but didn’t discuss politics with anyone except for people I know that have similar views. The last thing I want to do is argue with people. If we are out and talking to people and they bring up politics we refuse to discuss it.Same here, I think the self-appointed voice of the 85006 may take a few liberties when speaking for the residents.

[Williamsmith]

My neighborhood is all abuzz over Trump's latest.....apparently now for those who immigrate legally to the US, once you have a green card you can be denied citizenship (should you apply for it) if you or anyone in your household (assuming that you are not single) has ever used US public assistance of any kind.

On the one hand, there are those who abuse the limited benefits they can access, I won't deny that. On the other hand, given the low pay of the kinds of jobs most immigrants get vs. the nightmarishly rising costs in the US, this new policy reeks of inhumanity.

What do you think? I side with the 85006 and against the Thug of Orange. (I got tired of calling Trump the Orange Thug and am now calling him the Thug of Orange). Rob

I cant believe that after all this injustice.........these people are still staying here! Aren’t there better countries to go to? Oh yeah.....they have immigration laws too.

[LDAHL]

This came out in February. What took the 85006 hive-mind so long for it to register as the latest outrage?

I would say at this point you’re forty or fifty outrages behind.

[iris lilies]

I cant believe that after all this injustice.........these people are still staying here! Aren’t there better countries to go to? Oh yeah.....they have immigration laws too.
And less economic opportunity

And less safety

And less ....etc.

[iris lilies]

Generally speaking and without knowing a whole lot of detail, I like the coupling of desire for citizenship and public welfare. There are devils in the details.

One of the big welfare reforms of 1996, one that President Clinton signed onto (although did not spearhead) was the citizen backed reform to stop and/or limit welfare programs going to immigrants of many stripes. We The People were on board for that.

[gimmethesimplelife]

This came out in February. What took the 85006 hive-mind so long for it to register as the latest outrage?

I would say at this point you’re forty or fifty outrages behind.I wasn't sure what "hive mind" means so I looked it up online. Interesting. I see this concept as both a good and a bad thing. In the case of say Nazi Germany the "hive mind" was a deadly thing for the many perished - in the case of Western Europe after the WW2 the 'hive mind" has been a blessing as it has meant access to social welfare for all and a better quality of life than we can hope for in America (unless one is wealthy, I'll grant that much here and now).

My point is that a hive mind mentality is not necessarily a bad thing - though I'd agree it can be. In this case it's a blessing as it draws neighbors closer and were it not for this hive mind, given that I am Caucasian, I doubt I could have bonded with so many of my neighbors so well. The hive mind - for me - overall has worked well. Though I will admit I can think of instances when it has not, such as when I was in school, or in lower end restaurants where I once served. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

I know my neighbors but didn’t discuss politics with anyone except for people I know that have similar views. The last thing I want to do is argue with people. If we are out and talking to people and they bring up politics we refuse to discuss it.Where I live it's amazingly easy - most people are liberals, most people are Democrats, most people are going to agree on most issues. I don't have to worry about discussing politics until such a time as I leave the neighborhood.

I will admit this much, however. It's very easy for me to get on Bus #70 and get off this bus line in an area society would consider much nicer than the one I live in. In this area I would not discuss politics any more than I would in the workplace in my role as a lower end supervisor. There in that "better" area I would not enjoy the safety of most people seeing things in the same way that I enjoy in the 85006. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

Same here, I think the self-appointed voice of the 85006 may take a few liberties when speaking for the residents.It's really that hard for you as someone who believes in America to visualize a lower income area in which neighbors are mostly going to both bond and agree with one another politically? Interesting. The city looks down on my neighborhood as does society given that it is lower income, but yet this area has some Norman Rockwell Community type moments going on and as someone who supports America, you can't visualize this? Interesting. This explains a lot. Rob

[Williamsmith]

Do your Norman Rockwell moments include free banquet food for everyone or do people have to pay......like in a capitalist society?

[gimmethesimplelife]

Do your Norman Rockwell moments include free banquet food for everyone or do people have to pay......like in a capitalist society?We have community events from time to time with free food but not really a banquet setting, more like a bunch of neighbors getting together or like a block party setting. Such as the block party planned but yet to materialize should Trump be impeached or not finish his term for any reason.

These events are in a true collective spirit in that everyone contributes something and the end result is a great meal and a great event for most participants. So to answer your question, there is some capitalism going on in that everyone is expected to contribute, and some socialism going on in that everyone is expected to enjoy the end result and dig in to the collective meal. Rob

[Alan]

It's really that hard for you as someone who believes in America to visualize a lower income area in which neighbors are mostly going to both bond and agree with one another politically? Interesting. The city looks down on my neighborhood as does society given that it is lower income, but yet this area has some Norman Rockwell Community type moments going on and as someone who supports America, you can't visualize this? Interesting. This explains a lot. Rob
I can easily visualize a community of like minded individuals, I just have trouble visualizing an entire zip code agreeing on whatever your hot topic of the day may be. I suspect there's a lot more diversity of thought in the 85006 than you give it credit for although I'm willing to concede many residents may be reluctant to make themselves subject to being reported on the community phone tree. Assimilation in the hive mind is easier than independent thought.

[Teacher Terry]

Well the thing is you can be of the same economic class as someone and differ in politics. My DH and a really good friend of mine come to mind. When my DIL got a green card to come to the states my son had to sign a paper that he would support her for 10 years because she couldn’t get any type of public aide. I think even if they divorced before the 10 years this would be the case.

[Ultralight]

What boggle my mind is that I used to live in the 85006 from 2010-2012. Rob's 85006 is very different than the one I remember.

[gimmethesimplelife]

What boggle my mind is that I used to live in the 85006 from 2010-2012. Rob's 85006 is very different than the one I remember.My main cross streets are McDowell Road and State Route 51, if that gives you an idea of where I live in the 85006. I do know that the Coronado neighborhood in the 85006 is getting very spendy and new people with money that don't really fit well into the area are moving in but I don't live in the Coronado neighborhood - I live in Pura 85006 - the words of one of my neighbors. Rob

[Alan]

I do know that the Coronado neighborhood in the 85006 is getting very spendy and new people with money that don't really fit well into the area are moving in …….
Perhaps you could use your activist sideline to change the Coronado neighborhoods zoning regulations to keep people with money out or at least require the approval of a commission of activists to ensure social mobility is quashed. Some people invest lots of time and energy trying to maintain the integrity of their neighborhoods and it seems like that may be something you'd enjoy.

[LDAHL]

I have real trouble believing any collection of people outside of a really bad movie could have the degree of solidarity and like-mindedness you describe. There seems to be a degree of projection of individual thoughts and beliefs on a greater community.

[Yppej]

When my mother became a US citizen in the early 70's she had to sign a pledge that she would never accept public assistance. So when did that change?

She thought it was well worth becoming an American.

[Teacher Terry]

Now it’s 10 years.

[Tammy]

There are lots of small neighborhoods in Phoenix that are like little towns. We are a city of villages. Politics change quickly just a few miles away from a neighborhood. I see lots of community solidarity - dare I generalize here??? - especially among Hispanic communities.

Rob lives very close to the hospital where I work. We are the only public hospital in Arizona and are the safety net - we turn no one away. I’ve had patients and coworkers from dozens of countries, representing every continent except Antarctica.

I never saw such a cultural divide until I moved here. Joe Arpaio is the mirror universe opposite of Rob.

There’s lots of racism here. And classism. It hurts my soul on a daily basis.

And I’m the old rich white Woman who bought a house in the hood and I’m probably contributing to gentrification. But our house is staying pretty much the way it was 50 years ago with just some upkeep and tree planting and such.

Rob is extreme in his verbiage, I agree. He’s an activist. But in my quiet little white heart, I feel what he says. I see examples of it all the time. Yes I recognize some of the things about Rob that annoy some of you - what seems like inconsistencies etc. but he’s getting at something that needs to be exposed. Systemic racism is everywhere in this city.

Ok - I’ll stop now. Just had to speak up a little for Rob. Who I may meet in person someday.

[Tybee]

Tammy, since you are a nurse and in the health care system, what do you think ordinary non-medical citizens can do to further the cause of single payer? Is this something that folks within the system want? I ask that because I used to watch Dr Finley about the Scottish doctor, and there were interesting plot lines about how strongly the English medical system opposed National Health Care in England, back when it was coming along. Doctors were adamantly opposed, at least in the fictionalized version of events. I wonder what your thoughts and/or suggestions are.

[Teacher Terry]

Tammy, thanks for the perspective. As I noted on other threads my DIL would be dead without health insurance or 1 million in the bank. The free health insurance in Poland wouldn’t help as they couldn’t perform the surgery. A couple I was friends with both went through multiple bouts of cancer and then she got early Alzheimer’s. They had paid for home, money and health insurance yet died broke. This is not right. People who say they can pay themselves are deluded if they have too much bad luck.

[Tammy]

I guess voting is our best thing as individuals - I voted for Bernie, but then switched to Hillary. I’m pragmatic - they both had better plans for healthcare than Trump.

People who work in healthcare are all over the map politically, but those who work in my system tend to be in favor of single payer. About 80% of our patients are either Medicare Medicaid or uninsured. Other hospitals have about a 30 to 35% ratio so you can see that we are at a distinct disadvantage. But we work with Medicare and Medicaid most of the time and that’s basically a single payer model, if you think of “Medicaid expansion” or “Medicare for all” as the Way forward towards single payer.

We spend way too much time bickering with insurance companies to get payment. Remove all that bureaucracy, profit motive, etc and it would free us up to actually provide healthcare to our community. We could hire direct care providers in greater numbers and hire a lot less people in the billing office, utilization, contracts and all that.

[Tammy]

Yes - healthcare as the major path toward bankruptcy in America is ridiculous. I went to the pharmacy this week to get medication for my husband. Retail price was $621. Because my pharmacy has a contract with that company I paid $16. I don’t know why prices can fluctuate that wildly based on a simple agreement. Something is very broken.

[catherine]

Tammy, I couldn't agree more. We spend more for healthcare than any other developed nation, yet our health outcomes don't indicate that we are getting more value--in fact we get less. I also agree with what Rob said about decoupling insurance from employers. I'm always surprised that fiscal Republicans aren't more supportive of non-employer-based single payer healthcare, because it would be much more efficient and cost effective, and it would free employees to be more entrepreneurial--they wouldn't be afraid to lose their golden handcuffs of health insurance.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Perhaps you could use your activist sideline to change the Coronado neighborhoods zoning regulations to keep people with money out or at least require the approval of a commission of activists to ensure social mobility is quashed. Some people invest lots of time and energy trying to maintain the integrity of their neighborhoods and it seems like that may be something you'd enjoy.There's no need to engage in activism to "squash" social mobility, Alan. With all due respect and no snark intended, the country you believe in does this already, systemically and much more efficiently that I ever could as an activist. Not that I would want to squash social mobility - I'd want the exact opposite. It's America that wishes to squash social mobility and is quite effective at doing so - I am a fortunate, very fortunate exception. Don't believe me? Ask a millennial about this issue - the majority will agree with me. Try it...…..don't believe me and give it a try. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

There are lots of small neighborhoods in Phoenix that are like little towns. We are a city of villages. Politics change quickly just a few miles away from a neighborhood. I see lots of community solidarity - dare I generalize here??? - especially among Hispanic communities.

Rob lives very close to the hospital where I work. We are the only public hospital in Arizona and are the safety net - we turn no one away. I’ve had patients and coworkers from dozens of countries, representing every continent except Antarctica.

I never saw such a cultural divide until I moved here. Joe Arpaio is the mirror universe opposite of Rob.

There’s lots of racism here. And classism. It hurts my soul on a daily basis.

And I’m the old rich white Woman who bought a house in the hood and I’m probably contributing to gentrification. But our house is staying pretty much the way it was 50 years ago with just some upkeep and tree planting and such.

Rob is extreme in his verbiage, I agree. He’s an activist. But in my quiet little white heart, I feel what he says. I see examples of it all the time. Yes I recognize some of the things about Rob that annoy some of you - what seems like inconsistencies etc. but he’s getting at something that needs to be exposed. Systemic racism is everywhere in this city.

Ok - I’ll stop now. Just had to speak up a little for Rob. Who I may meet in person someday.Tammy, Thank You. For the kind words and also for shedding some light on what's going on in Phoenix. I just wanted to also say that I really respect you for staying with the hospital that you refer to, instead of trying to get into Mayo or St. Joes or the assembly line health care Honor Health offers. Kudos to you for staying with this hospital. And I must say as a former AHCCCS member (Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System, AKA Medicaid in Arizona) I was VERY impressed with the care I received while I was inpatient with my liver infection a year and a half ago. Seriously......I had a much more pleasant experience overall there than I did at Banner back in 2014 with my gall bladder issues.

The difference in care was so pronounced that I have steered others to your hospital over other local hospitals......though I will say that my Mother recently had a procedure done on her foot at St. Luke's and I was impressed with the care she received there, too. Rob

[Alan]

With all due respect and no snark intended, the country you believe in does this already, systemically and much more efficiently that I ever could as an activist. Not that I would want to squash social mobility - I'd want the exact opposite. It's America that wishes to squash social mobility and is quite effective at doing so - I am a fortunate, very fortunate exception.

It wasn't America advising us that:
"
I do know that the Coronado neighborhood in the 85006 is getting very spendy and new people with money that don't really fit well into the area are moving in ……."

So forgive my noting your disapproval and commenting on it.

[Tammy]

Rob - I plan to stay with MIHS for 8-9 more years. All the way to retirement. I’ve never worked for a better system, in spite of our resource challenges. It’s a mission driven company. Reminds me of religious mission except we’re secular. Peace corps-like — but in our own country.

[gimmethesimplelife]

There are lots of small neighborhoods in Phoenix that are like little towns. We are a city of villages. Politics change quickly just a few miles away from a neighborhood. I see lots of community solidarity - dare I generalize here??? - especially among Hispanic communities.

Rob lives very close to the hospital where I work. We are the only public hospital in Arizona and are the safety net - we turn no one away. I’ve had patients and coworkers from dozens of countries, representing every continent except Antarctica.

I never saw such a cultural divide until I moved here. Joe Arpaio is the mirror universe opposite of Rob.

There’s lots of racism here. And classism. It hurts my soul on a daily basis.

And I’m the old rich white Woman who bought a house in the hood and I’m probably contributing to gentrification. But our house is staying pretty much the way it was 50 years ago with just some upkeep and tree planting and such.

Rob is extreme in his verbiage, I agree. He’s an activist. But in my quiet little white heart, I feel what he says. I see examples of it all the time. Yes I recognize some of the things about Rob that annoy some of you - what seems like inconsistencies etc. but he’s getting at something that needs to be exposed. Systemic racism is everywhere in this city.

Ok - I’ll stop now. Just had to speak up a little for Rob. Who I may meet in person someday.Hi Tammy,

Sorry I forgot to add - Thanks for the compliment - that I am the mirror universe opposite of Joe Arpaio. I find this flattering, especially since I have protested against Joe Arpaio numerous times downtown....thanks for the kind words here and the recognition that I am very much a 180 from Joe Arpaio and all that he and many of his supporters believe in/stand for. Rob

[Tammy]

I was thinking of Star Trek - with the mirror universe concept. 🚀😄