Caring not fixing

[Zoe Girl]

Revelation here, and only because of the stupid breakdown.

I have been trying to learn and focus on what I need to improve/fix in myself. This last 6 months I have made mistakes honestly. When I even try for an extended time my head just hurts. More like my mind hurts. Same thing with setting goals beyond just to be a decent person and do a good job.

Well duh, I am getting fixing myself with caring for myself. I pretty much got this with other people, if I start fixing I tend to catch it quickly. However I have not been caring for myself, I have not been in a place where it was easy or possible to care for myself, but I need to care more than fix.

[sweetana3]

Being a decent person and doing a good job are very good goals. Accepting and caring for who you are is the first step.

[Ultralight]

I think that in this society you can either:

1. Be a horrible person (narcissistic, manipulative, sociopathic) and successful in your career

Or...

2. You can be a good person and, at best, hold down a somewhat decent job.

[LDAHL]

There are wonderful people in wonderful jobs. There are horrible people in horrible jobs. There is plenty of evidence that success is not necessarily an indicator of bad character.

I can understand the temptation to console oneself that you are a better, smarter person than those above you. But there are too many other factors involved, including luck, to draw that conclusion.

[Ultralight]

There are wonderful people in wonderful jobs. There are horrible people in horrible jobs. There is plenty of evidence that success is not necessarily an indicator of bad character.

I can understand the temptation to console oneself that you are a better, smarter person than those above you. But there are too many other factors involved, including luck, to draw that conclusion.

Worth reading: https://hbr.org/2015/11/why-bad-guys-win-at-work

[catherine]

I think that in this society you can either:

1. Be a horrible person (narcissistic, manipulative, sociopathic) and successful in your career

Or...

2. You can be a good person and, at best, hold down a somewhat decent job.

I'm in agreement with LDAHL. There's no way you can make that kind of a sweeping generalization. First of all, what is "success"? What is "a decent job"? Second, so all the good people you know are struggling along in a "somewhat decent job"? None of them are "successful"?

Your article only hypothesizes why SOME "bad" people wind up being successful at their jobs, but that doesn't mean that being "bad" is a prerequisite for success.

And again, what is success? I've worked for very large multi-national corporations and small businesses of under 60 people and believe me, the majority of the people I worked for were good, decent, and even amazing people.

But, as to ZG's point--yes, I think you have it in a nutshell. That's a good way to look at it.

[Zoe Girl]

Just a note that this is specific progress towards not making this all about work. And it really doesn't matter if my former supervisors are good or bad people, that is done. When I get ambitious and goal oriented right now my mind rebels and has pain. This is a change because I always have a plan for something, just can't for awhile

[Ultralight]

Read the article.

[catherine]

Read the article.

I did. It still simply says that people with the "dark triad" will gravitate toward success. It doesn't say that mentally healthy people don't also gravitate toward success. In fact, the article implies the opposite about the sustainability of organizations led by "dark triad" people:


...the dark side represents the toxic assets of our personality. You can certainly turn them into career weapons, but the group will generally lose the more you win.

Eventually, if a company is polluted by dark triad leadership, it will eventually eat itself up--think Enron.

[Tybee]

So Zoe Girl, what does caring vs. fixing look like on a day to day basis? I'm intrigued by your insight because it reminds me of ideas I see in 12-step programs. Can you explain more about the difference?

[LDAHL]

Catherine is right. We don’t operate in a pure meritocracy; but neither is it a Darwinian cesspool. I don’t see that the article points to some kind of natural law of increasing decency as you move down the spectrum of office to cubicle to janitor’s closet.

Is life unfair? Sure. Every fertilized egg is a roll of loaded genetic and sociopolitical dice. It only gets trickier from there. But it doesn’t follow from that that virtue is the sole province of the unsuccessful.

[Zoe Girl]

So Zoe Girl, what does caring vs. fixing look like on a day to day basis? I'm intrigued by your insight because it reminds me of ideas I see in 12-step programs. Can you explain more about the difference?

thank you tybee,

Fixing is ending the day with goals and big plans, many of which require changing something about myself. Even if it a good or healthy idea it still is a self improvement type of thing. Like cut down on sugar, clean the car that is messy but not essential, even just make more organized lists.

Caring is taking care of things that are urgent or important, like paying bills on time. Caring is also saying that the candy bar or a messy car are just not that important if I am honestly tired that day. Resting helps my brain heal, pleasant things help my brain heal, overall good food helps me heal, but being super strict is not helping me heal,

[Tybee]

Thanks, Zoe, I was totally off base with what you were saying, isn't that funny! So I am glad I asked. First, I was thinking in al-anon terms and I liked your words about caring, not fixing. Since that is what we try to do with our loved ones, since we are veteran fixers, thinking we can fix other people. Instead, we need to care about them. That's what I thought you were talking about, and so my mind ran with that.

But in a way I wasn't so off base since you are talking about self-care vs "I have to fix myself." And that is very al-anon, too. And I really like what you are saying here and I will need to ponder it this week and think about how to apply this principle to my OWN life, because I am like you--always trying to make a plan for self-improvement, etc. and it is exhausting and has led to a very basic feeling of "I am not alright the way I am." Which is not true, and I am getting tired of feeling I always need to fix me, too.

[messengerhot]

Being a decent person and doing a good job are very good goals. Accepting and caring for who you are is the first step.

That's true! Acceptance is very important.

[Zoe Girl]

Tybee, it helps to not buy or read womens magazines! I even get bugged by Oprah. There is outside pressure to constantly work on ourselves I feel

[Chicken lady]

It’s funny Zoe girl, women’s magazines are one of those things I never really had around - except when mil left a “good housekeeping” behind - carefully dog eared for my edification. I also never really thought about it, but now I am thinking about my mom having them around all the time and the sense of pressure and dissatisfaction because she/we couldn’t maintain an exercise routine, make our house look like that, reproduce those cupcakes...

We homeschooled, we limited tv and internet. I have two adult daughters who are athletic and solidly built in a “healthy but my genes demand curves” way. They both wear their hair long and natural and either pulled back in a pony tail or up in a bun if appropriate. One wears make up because she likes it, the other only when she is trying to look”polished” and “professional”. They both work in very traditionally male fields (construction and men’s sports) They will tell you their age and their weight with no more concern than giving their coffee order.

in fact, recently they were boating with my bil, and water skiing. He had lifted the younger one into the boat with some risk of going over himself instead (all of her weight and his center of gravity were over the side of the boat...) when the older one got up to the side of the boat and he reached for her, she stopped him, looked at her sister, and asked “what do you weigh?” My bil was appalled: “did you just ask her what she weighs?! You don’t ask a woman what she weighs!” To which Dd replied “why? I’d like to know if i’m coming in the boat or you’re coming out.”

keep up the the good work - learn what rested feels like. Feel good in your body, and if you don’t, find out how to treat it so that you do. Keep using your mindfulness and meditation experience to let the negative thoughts go. You have a lot of negativity and toxic experiences to wash away, but you are on the right path.

[sweetana3]

I am much happier with my life without all the comparison with popular TV, magazines, and such which promote an idealized and glamorized view of the world. I really really dislike HGTV.