View Full Version : The Unretirement
I guess I'm posting this thread as a means to brainstorm the whole concept of retirement, and I know that's already been tackled in YMOYL, but to get more specific...
Isn't the accepted retirement age an anachronism?
As "natural" beings, isn't it true there is no such thing as "retirement"? (Are there retirement homes for bees? Or do they just keep working?)
How do we remain vital members of society if our life goes from "we" focus to "me" focus in a matter of one meeting with HR? (I know many people who have died within a few months of retirement)
Philosophically, what are we meant to do in our old age? What is our right? What is our obligation?
I personally have great admiration for two people who are on two opposite ends of the spectrum: Peace Pilgrim and Barbara Walters. Seemingly VERY different, but what unites them is their lifelong pursuit of their passions. Peace Pilgrim died in her 70s on her way to give a speech (ironically, in a car accident--after having crossed the country many times on foot). Barbara Walters is 81 and still going strong.
How do you see unretirement? Are you for it? Against it?
Disclaimer: At the age of 59 with 0 in the bank due to a) letting life carry me along with no real long-term plan and b) getting the bad end of the stick because of two clashing situations within the last 3 years, I admit that I need to question the paradigm for practical reasons. At the same time, the topic is worth questioning.
poetry_writer
5-18-11, 3:18pm
I hear people say they will "never retire". I think , well are you going to drop dead across your desk or what? Most are not going to be able to work until the very end of life. It generally doesnt work that way. I lost my job last year and I am only 53. The prospects of work are very slim for me. I loved my last job and had hoped to stay there till "retirement" , whatever age that is! It just didnt work out that way due to the management there. So...what do I do? I dont know. I am living on my savings knowing it probably isnt enough if I live to be old. I dont think I will, for I have no insurance and no medical care.
For me, who "retired" at age 42, I found that I became much more active, much more "we" focused than while working, and much more involved in life on a larger scale. Retirement is just a word that means you aren't working a traditional paid job any longer. A job that may take away the free time you have to give to other's or to causes. What you choose to do with that free time is totally up to you. I know that I have never been more active in my life, my causes, or my community than since I retired. I personally have never understood people who feel that "retirement" means you are sitting in a rocking chair waiting to die. There are literally MILLIONS of things to do - to be passionate about - to strive for - that I would need many more lifetimes in retirement just to scratch the surface.
I did retire at 62 and as Spartana is saying I have been able to become so much more we focused now that I am not working...
More involved in community, politics, reading, making more friends, able to help with a special needs grandchild, be there for DH who is ill.
But, financially it is harder then when I was working but we are just spending less because I am shopping, storing and cooking better.
I do have medical paid till 65 and then provinciall health which covers most of what one needs, so we are luckly on that one and it does make a difference. I would have kept working if we hadn't had that....
ApatheticNoMore
5-18-11, 5:03pm
I think I could find plenty to do in the way of volunteering (and I'd love it!) if I retired now at 30 something. OF COURSE I can't make it work financially! I haven't accumulated that much dough, but almost noone has at my age so oh well. I volunteer now but can't make it the only thing I do.
2. As "natural" beings, isn't it true there is no such thing as "retirement"? (Are there retirement homes for bees? Or do they just keep working?)
But NOTHING in the corporate workplace resembles natural life. That's part of why it's so hard to do .... The relentless pressure, the crushing hierarchy, it's all so unnatural.
3. How do we remain vital members of society if our life goes from "we" focus to "me" focus in a matter of one meeting with HR? (I know many people who have died within a few months of retirement)
Working is "we" focus? On a superficial level yes, we're all supposed to be TEAM PLAYERS afterall (we're constantly told that right?). But in reality, what do you REALLY care about? The corporate mission statement or your own economic and other goals? My guess is it isn't the corporate mission statement, especially as you didn't necessarily take the job because you believed in it (hopefully you don't regard it as evil or anything, but you aren't necessarily strongly committed to it). You took the job because you needed income.
Oh and yes age discrimination for anyone over 50 is a reality in many fields (not all).
I think I could deal with working part time until I die if health permitted, full time work is a lot harder to swallow.
I have never mentally connected working for pay with contributing to society. I don't necessarily think the two always go together either. Bernie Madoff and crack dealers work/worked for money. Contrast that with Mother Theresa, who took a vow of poverty.
I go back and forth between not working and working part-time and have since I was 23. I will probably continue to do that indefinitely, although I have some business ideas I may try someday that would take full-time work to make happen. I should say "not working for pay" since I'm not exactly sitting on my butt all day long. Aside from caring for and homeschooling my kids I do some mentoring, volunteer on my church's hospitality committee and we are soon going to be volunteering as a family at a nursing home. When my own kids are grown I'll probably watch my grandkids and do more mentoring and volunteering. Also, my dad will probably need more help in 20 years (he's 63) so I'll be doing some of that too. And of course I have all kinds of adventures planned, but by then I'll probably have different adventures I want to pursue. It's really almost no use planning anything in detail 20-30 years out. There are too many variables between then and now that cannot be foreseen.
Bastelmutti
5-18-11, 5:59pm
I'm not sure our rights and obligations change just because of age or retirement.
Personally, I just can't imagine having enough money to retire completely from paid work and pay for health care at the same time the way things are going. However, as Stella says, planning 20-30 years out in detail is hard. DH and I both have jobs we can continue doing as long as we are able - I'm already on my own and he could make a business out of his skills. So, whatever comes, I am grateful that as long as we have our health, we will be able to continue working to support ourselves.
PS I already volunteer, so if I were fortunate enough to actually retire, I would continue that, as well as pursuing my own projects and hobbies.
Gardenarian
5-18-11, 6:20pm
Is the accepted age for retirement 60 or 65? I'm really not sure. I know that veterans, police officers, firefighters, and many civil servants can retire with a full pension after working for 20 years.
I think the idea of working in the rat race so you can eventually go on permanent vacation is an anachronism. I think most people realize that the pursuit of pleasure doesn't really bring true happiness or fulfillment.
I'm feeling like a lot of people overestimate what they are going to be capable of when they are older. It seems like most people expect to live to 100, and to be in good health at least till their 80s. That is just not realistic - optimistic, but not gonna happen for most of us.
I do think that it is probably a good idea to plan on slowing down a bit when we hit our 60s. I know that I need more time now (at almost 53) to take care of myself (exercise, eat right, get lots of sleep, and so on) than when I was 43 and taking care of my infant daughter.
We can do everything we believe is possible to slow down aging, but we will all grow old, and I think it is wise to prepare. Whether this means leaving the work force depends on the individual and the type of work.
I will be getting a pension when I turn 60, but plan on continuing to work as a librarian. I also am considering turning my gardening/landscaping/horticulture skills into some kind of second career, but I'm aware that my body is already not as strong as it once was and that just might be impossible. I certainly don't foresee myself retiring in any traditional sense.
I retired from a demanding occupation to more volunteering and personal activities like learning to play the piano, paint, garden etc. I don't think that there is a right or wrong age to do this. We are fortunate that we have the funds and a paid-up home so can choose how we spend our time rather than being a clockwatcher.
I think meaningful work should continue, but only if its meaningful and if its optional. after the week I'm having, it is difficult for me to think of doing this job for another few years, let alone until I die. If I had no choice, it would be a really difficult thing to face.
... But NOTHING in the corporate workplace resembles natural life. That's part of why it's so hard to do .... The relentless pressure, the crushing hierarchy, it's all so unnatural .....
I think I could deal with working part time until I die if health permitted, full time work is a lot harder to swallow.
I heartily agree with both of those ideas.
the 15 years I spent as a full time mom with some odd jobs thrown in were much more "natural" than what I do now, even though I worked just as hard in those years as I do now. I set my own pace, I had some autonomy, I could take it slow one day if I wasn't feeling well, and I didn't have to deal with any of the artificial political hoopla that is in so many workplaces .... work can be like the book "1984", where we say the opposite of the truth and smile while we do it.
I think its sad that some have no life other than their job. My wife and I both retired at 50 and we should have done it sooner. I realized when I turned 40 that I didn't want to have to work when I was 55, so we started saving and investing with that in mind. Things just turned out better than we expected and we chose to quit earlier. I can't imagine going back to work now. I have plenty of things to fill up my time.
iris lily
5-18-11, 11:14pm
I just ran some general numbers and am surprised about how much I can pull down from a pension now, without even waiting longer. hmmmm. Am really gonna crunch those numbers.
Heatlh insurance is the scariest thing.
Hmm. I do think that the ideal of retirement as we're used to seeing it - never work again and just kick back all day - is a thing of the past. Our society is demanding more and more of us as employees, but at the same time it's getting harder and harder to make ends meet. And as I believe Junkman said in another thread, hardly anybody knows how to properly invest... I'm one of them. :confused: But we won't go there now. ;)
On the flip side, when I think about what "retirement" could mean for society... Just think about it. If everyone decided to quit their jobs and then refocus to do the type of work they truly enjoyed, well, wouldn't it sort of be like a moneyless society? We'd all do what we were good at, and what satisfied us, and then could exchange our skills for other stuff that we needed. How's that for a pipe dream?
By the way, that's not an original idea. I know there are people out there who are working towards a moneyless society. For example, Mark Broyles, aka "The Moneyless Man."
flowerseverywhere
5-19-11, 1:14pm
How do we remain vital members of society if our life goes from "we" focus to "me" focus in a matter of one meeting with HR? (I know many people who have died within a few months of retirement)
One meeting with HR is the problem. As you go through life stages, you do things differently. when you are young you find yourself and work through experience and education. As they years go by people make decisions on family, how they want to eat, how they want to live, what they want to drive. All a series of trade-offs and choices.
As children leave the nest or if you are childless, as you mature and find yourself in your forties and fifties there is time for great reflection and moving in new directions.
My children are very independent and it has forced me to move outside the work zone and explore all kinds of new hobbies and interests. This did not happen overnight, I deliberately worked on making a new life for myself. I transitioned from full to part time work in my early fifties. None of my friends are retired so I had to find a new tribe - new interests- new ways to stimulate my mind and body.
Now in my late fifties I just finished up working very part time and I know I am way better mentally and physically than I was before. I also am the back-up babysitter for dogs and kids, although my kids are out of state I go if needed.
If you choose to work it is very different from having to work to put food on the table and a roof over your head. But many of my friends who still work full time do so for fancy cars, much nicer houses than mine and going out to eat on a regular basis. That has no appeal to me. As a matter of fact we decided that if the going got tough financially we will give up our house and live in an apartment (which we could for probably 15-20 years just from our house proceeds) before going back to full time work.
Yesterday I worked at the local soup kitchen, which really puts life in perspective. Today I rode my bike almost 20 miles doing errands, worked in the garden and will read a book this afternoon. This evening is Yoga class then we'll have a nice relaxed plant based dinner. Tomorrow I volunteer at the library, and then we have some house projects we are working on instead of hiring someone to do it. Tomorrow evening we are seeing Livingston Taylor in concert and this weekend going to a friends wedding.
I don't know how my life could be any more productive and meaningful, certainly not by working outside the home.
goldensmom
5-19-11, 1:25pm
When I say I am retired I mean I quit my paying job (at 49). I work way harder and lots more in my 'retirement' years. Question #2, no I don't think anyone is meant to quit/retire from being productive or meaningful unless or until health problems arise that prohibit natural productive and meaningful activity. Question #4, I don't think retirement is a right or an obligation. In my case, however, I felt that as long as I could leave my paying job and make ends meet that I should leave and give way for another, possibly a younger person with more energy to fill my position.
flowerseverywhere
5-19-11, 1:57pm
I wanted to add that even at your age with zero savings you can start to make changes that could drastically alter your future. Have you read "Your Money or your life?" if not, get a copy at your library.
Although the investment advice is outdated, the rest of the book is very worthwhile. Tracking every penny you spend lets you realize what you are spending money that gives your life value and what does not. Also, if you are working is there a 401K or similar vehicle you can start to save? It is never too late.
We were lucky enough to realize in our mid 30's that we needed to get our act together. With a big mortgage, two car loans, a big boat and two kids we wanted to send to University we made drastic changes in our lives. We got rid of payments except for mortgage and paid that off in a very short time. Thank goodness, because DH ended up with medical problems and missed time from work. We would have been in bad shape without the changes we made.
There are people here that I have watched post for over ten years on prior boards, who have gotten rid of enormous amounts of debt and been able to save emergency funds and for retirement on modest salaries. It isn't always easy, and co-workers and family might think you are super cheap, but if you want to do it you can.
On the flip side, when I think about what "retirement" could mean for society... Just think about it. If everyone decided to quit their jobs and then refocus to do the type of work they truly enjoyed, well, wouldn't it sort of be like a moneyless society? We'd all do what we were good at, and what satisfied us, and then could exchange our skills for other stuff that we needed. How's that for a pipe dream?
And just think what would happen if those who can have a nice retirement and enough money to support themselves, but who contnue to work into old age so the feel "fulfilled and useful" up and quit? How many jobs would that free up for younger people who need to support families? I alsway get a bit ticked off when they show old grandpa Smith, who has a gazzlion tucked away in savings, still working full time at the ripe old age of 80. Geeze, retire already and find a better way to concribute to society and free up that job for some else!
flowerseverywhere
5-19-11, 3:43pm
And just think what would happen if those who can have a nice retirement and enough money to support themselves, but who contnue to work into old age so the feel "fulfilled and useful" up and quit? How many jobs would that free up for younger people who need to support families? I alsway get a bit ticked off when they show old grandpa Smith, who has a gazzlion tucked away in savings, still working full time at the ripe old age of 80. Geeze, retire already and find a better way to concribute to society and free up that job for some else!
Very well said.
I was retired from my job, not my choice, 6 years ago at 62 after a natural disaster. A year later, I reinvented myself to a life of part time work and much more time for my own pursuits. I live on a very limited income, but like my life so much more now....many days are just my own to walk, swim, cook, read, work on projects, explore outdoors, or travel. I expect to be enjoying this life well into my 80's and beyond.
http://iliketomakethings.blogspot.com
I too expect to be working at what I do well into my 80's, god/God/gawd willing. I'll work fewer hours, but I like what I do and it's not age-dependent like being a pro athlete or a surgeon (though there was that surgeon in Loma Linda who still practiced into his 90's......)
There's a very good section on the changing face of retirement in Daniel Pink's book "Free Agent Nation." It really resonated with my own feelings about how I want to handle the latter decades of my time here on the planet.
I plan on doing this work until I pass away -- yoga is the kind of work where you can do that. :) Pattabhi Jois taught daily until he got the infection that killed him. I think it was a week between falling ill and dying. So, not too shabby.
I have recently retired and am loving every minute of it! I have time to do the things I've wanted to do for years. However, I realize that having a husband who is still working and providing health insurance has made it possible for me to retire; many people must continue to work simply because they need insurance.
Other people love their work and are happy to continue well past their 60's and I say "More power to them"!!
I have recently retired and am loving every minute of it! I have time to do the things I've wanted to do for years. However, I realize that having a husband who is still working and providing health insurance has made it possible for me to retire; many people must continue to work simply because they need insurance.
Other people love their work and are happy to continue well past their 60's and I say "More power to them"!!
Yes, I read your thread! And I say, congratulations! Enjoy...
I am already "semi-retired" doing work that I absolutely love doing. I can imagine myself doing massage and energy healing till I am 65....but I will be able to say that I can totally retire financially when I am 45 (9 yrs from now)! That in itself, is a wonderful feeling. My BF and I have talked about leaving the US in 15yrs to go live in a tropical setting and learning the language of the country. I cannot understand people who want to work till they die....life is so much more than work. I guess I have always had so many hobbies, desires, and a thirst for knowledge that work would actually be a hinderance for me!
catherine
6-11-11, 12:48pm
I am already "semi-retired" doing work that I absolutely love doing. I can imagine myself doing massage and energy healing till I am 65....but I will be able to say that I can totally retire financially when I am 45 (9 yrs from now)! That in itself, is a wonderful feeling. My BF and I have talked about leaving the US in 15yrs to go live in a tropical setting and learning the language of the country. I cannot understand people who want to work till they die....life is so much more than work. I guess I have always had so many hobbies, desires, and a thirst for knowledge that work would actually be a hinderance for me!
First of all, congratulations on a) being able to work at a 'semi-retirement' rate at something you love and b) while doing that put yourself in a position for a very early retirement. Unbelievable! Would love to hear more about how you accomplished that at your age! (I'm assuming 39).
I think the idea of work is an interesting philosophical question. Maybe people fall into two camps: Those who feel humans are made to work (like the ants), and those who feel they're made to play (like the grasshopper). Of course, not saying the grasshoppers are irresponsible--but that mindset would say that you work just as much (or as little) as you can to pay for the basic necessities of life, as opposed to the ants who feel that human beings are hardwired to contribute through work.
I'm not saying work has to be 60 hour soul-sucking slavery. My definition of work is broader than that. It can be as little as the 4 hours of bread labor that the Nearings proposed... which is also the same term that Gandhi uses to describe the physical labor that human beings must do:
"The idea is that every healthy individual must labour enough for his food and his intellectual faculties must be exercised not in order to obtain a living or amass a fortune, but only in the service of mankind. If this principle is observed everywhere, all men would be equal, none would starve and world would be saved from a sin."
Maybe the Protestant work ethic has been deeply instilled in me, but I simply cannot see me not working (in the loose definition of it). One time I had to go live in LA with two of my kids who were child actors. My job was "stage mom" at that time, but three months sitting at the pool and watching the boats pass by was GREAT in Month 1, but by the end of Month 3, I felt ready to move on.
And, mind you, I have a lot of interests. I sew, I draw, I've taught myself Spanish by setting aside 30 minutes every day every day, I volunteer at food distribution centers, I do all that when I have time. But if I don't have some kind of way to stay in the rhythm of life in which we sow and we reap and we give service to others, I feel stagnant.
Maybe I'll get over it.
TO PUGLOGIC: I LOVE Daniel Pink--I've read A Whole New Mind. I'll pick up Free Agent Nation...looks great!
Jinger,
I love your "Matchbook Notebooks" on your blog. You are so very creative.
I don't want my "retirement" to be like my MIL. She didn't work until 50ish, even though the family was barely surviving (2 high school dropout parents with 6 kids). She retired as early as possible (62) and spends her days watching TV. No thanks. She doesn't drive, read, have hobbies, or friends. She does see her sisters at least monthly, and my husband visits monthly as well to take her shopping.
On the other hand, I didn't want to be in corporate America until old age either, so I got into "Your Money or Your Life" in my late 20's. While I like what I do for work (software testing), I don't always like the overloaded, suck up, be grateful you HAVE a job culture either.
Hubby and I paid off this house 9 years ago, and this has allowed us "semi retirement". While it hasn't always been intentional (lots of lay offs in engineering and a lot of jobs have been shipped to India), we've been mostly able to alternate periods of working while the other person stays home. This is a much saner pace for us. I didn't realize how tired I was until I was laid off in 2002. I was working 50-60 hours, commuting 10, and doing all the errands, cooking, and much of the home project management (making sure things got done, not necessarily doing them all). Even when I wasn't actively doing someting, I was thinking about how much work there was to be done, and disappointed I couldn't get it all done.
The idea of retirement as permanent vacation? Nah, not for me. I like to feel useful. These days that means I switched out some dated hardware and light fixtures and painted some walls. I recently finished a contract employment situation and it was good to feel intellectually useful. But I rarely worked more than 20 hours a week, and it was done entirely from home. That was a good balance. Unfortunately its really hard to find meaningful part time activity as an engineer.
Catherine....I totally agree with you that my work has to be of service to other people.
I used to work for megacorp and had bought a condo before the home prices peaked. I saved and maxed out my 401K contributions on a salary 30-50K over the 8 years. I also saved money to go to Massage Therapy school before I left the company. I keep my expenses low 1200-2000 a month (live with my boyfriend) and still save. I also made a $100K on the sale of the condo which I put into investments, savings, and CD. My total savings are $40K, $170K in 401K/MF's, and $60K in pension.
I still work, although part-time now. I am approaching 67 years and life is great. I do not have a desire to completely retire, but I have definitely slowed it down. I am a paralegal by profession, but 7 years ago I left the law firm environment and also moved to a different community, to be closer to family. I work for my son which is a bonus because I have much flexibility. He would probably love it if I was available full-time but I will not do that. I usually do not get to work before 10:00 am and I do not work on Fridays. What I enjoy about working less is being able to think about options for the future, e.g., do I want to stay in my home or live in an apartment; do I want to go back to the beach, or stay where I am; do I want to travel more, etc. I am proud of my achievements. When I got divorced 30 years ago I had to start from scratch financially and raise my two boys. I did it all myself, even though it was very difficult. If I had known then that I would still not be remarried at 67, I probably would have crawled under a rock. Back then I still believed in the fantasy of the "man riding in on the white horse." Well, it didn't happen and I had to fend for myself. I found myself! Ooops - I'm off topic.
Anyway, retirement or working less, gives one so much time to just reflect and actually have choices. I'm all for it.
Linda
"Maybe the Protestant work ethic has been deeply instilled in me"
I passed that entree by in the cosmic cafeteria line, personally. Though I worked like an ant for many years, I'll be a grasshopper to my last breath.
I just found this blog post and I love it. When I started my mid-life career (at age 46), I figured, weil, it's a lucrative job, so I'll stick at it until my kids are out of college, etc. Then I'll go be a teacher or something. When I turned 56, I was sick of the corporate thing, but was liking the money and specific things about my job, so I started my own consultancy. I like it, but I'm still thinking, there's a lot in life to do! Do I still want to be a teacher? Not sure about that. I no longer think it suits my personality, unless I were to be a tutor--something one-on-one. Do I want to go into some kind of service industry? Maybe, but which one?
Of all the "next steps" I could take, after I pay down debt at 66, entrepreneurship is by far the most enticing. I have so many ideas. I'm starting to "test drive" some of them now, while I'm still in market research.
I think the people in this article are amazing....
http://www.toiletpaperentrepreneur.com/the-right-actions/entrepreneurs-who-start-late-and-finish-great
I guess I'm posting this thread as a means to brainstorm the whole concept of retirement, and I know that's already been tackled in YMOYL, but to get more specific...
Isn't the accepted retirement age an anachronism?
As "natural" beings, isn't it true there is no such thing as "retirement"? (Are there retirement homes for bees? Or do they just keep working?)
How do we remain vital members of society if our life goes from "we" focus to "me" focus in a matter of one meeting with HR? (I know many people who have died within a few months of retirement)
Philosophically, what are we meant to do in our old age? What is our right? What is our obligation?
...
How do you see unretirement? Are you for it? Against it?
....
Hi All,
I have not posted in a while, as I am living life fully! I am on my fourth career and it is the best one yet. I am a Seasonal Park Ranger working in Grand Canyon National Park. Seasonal means I work from March/April to September/October in a paying job. This job does not pay health insurance (I pay my own and for my DH on a separate plan), I pay a small rent for living in a National Park, and I pay for utilities. The other part of the year we volunteer for a National Park. So the living expenses (rent and utilities) are paid for us for half a year.
This season DH took a part-time gig to give him something to do, as well as a little extra money for the rent, utilities and food. He retired from his high pressure, high paying job in a high-cost of living area of DC in 2009 so that I could pursue my new career.
This has turned out to be an excellent lifestyle for us. We have a RV that we live in full-time, we sold our home right before the housing market crashed, and have socked away enough money that IF we wanted to, I could retire too. But I Love this working part of the year, volunteering the other part.
So to answer your questions: I believe that you could "retire" at any age, as long as you have the money to not be a drag on society. Meaning that, retiring from the workforce so that you can get food stamps, unemployment, and live off of the generosity of others is not retiring. Retiring means that you have a means to support yourself and others if necessary.
Natural beings - you mean like animals? Those animals are still living until they die. But they certainly do not live in a corporate world where they are making a dying. You really can not personify an animal into the corporate world and say what is natural or unnatural. It would be unnatural for a "worker" bee to go into retirement - his purpose in life is to be out looking for pollen and creating honey. He does that until he dies.
How do we remain vital members of society if our life goes from "we" focus to "me" focus in a matter of one meeting with HR?
Because those people (the ones that died) did not have a plan. You see, if you have a plan before you meet the HR folks, then whatever they tell you, it will not matter because you have built continuity plans for different scenarios. You might have already started volunteering somewhere, or set aside a couple of minutes or hours each day to read, or learn a new skill, or become part of your community.
Then when you decide it is time to go (or they decide for you), you have already changed focus. I do not think of either DH or myself as changing focus from We to Me, not ever nor do we plan to do so. I have enough me time as it is.
Philosophically, what are we meant to do in our old age? What is our right? What is our obligation?
In our old age we will continue to do what we are doing now. While there are 394 National Park sites throughout the country, I do not see us working and living at every one of those, but I do see us spending a couple of seasons - summers, at over 10 to 15 of them. That would put me at 20-30 years. This type of job/career is great, cause I could go even into my 60s or 70s. Would I want to? I might just say forget paying me, I'll just volunteer.
I do not know what our right is in regards to jobs and working; I just know what is right for DH and I. We will work and volunteer until we get sick of it, then we will find other things to do. However, I really do not see us getting sick of it. Like today, I am going in late, 2:30 pm PST and will "work" until Midnight. What am I doing? Checking out the night sky with Astronomers who are bringing their telescopes to the Grand Canyon! I might even give a constellation tour, and go to a talk. I will give children (who do the night sky junior ranger book) patches for being interested in the night sky. I will give information and discuss anything and everything under the sky (and within it.)
My obligation to society is that I pay my taxes. That is it. If I choose to do more, I will.
How do you see unretirement? Are you for it? Against it? I do not fit into compartments therefore whether or not I am retired or employed, it does not matter in the scheme of things. I just am what I am. And others will be what they will, whether that means retirement or something else. As long as you are not draining society, what difference does a label do? It might compartmentalize a person, but that is not always a good thing. Society and families might say, well, are you still working or not? And you can say, Sort of. :laff:
Hi All,
He retired from his high pressure, high paying job in a high-cost of living area of DC in 2009 so that I could pursue my new career.
Interesting post, Laura. Sounds like fun! Being in a high cost area (metro DC) very much drives our way of thinking about retirement. We've recognized that retiring in our current home will take longer than we want to spend in full-time work, and that moving, either nearby to another area, will be necessary. While we don't have a plan yet, we've begun to take steps like not adding to our collection of stuff and planning for resale of our house within 10 years.
Dh and I left the city nearly 5 years ago when his job went to India. We travelled around the coast of BC for 16 months petsitting in 13 different homes, looking for the right town to hang in.
We ended up in a small coastal community, cut off except by ferries. There are 13000 people in the town and 20 000 on the peninsula. When I came here I had a business doing workshops, but the flying got to be too much.
So I moved into a new job in literacy, 2 days a week. I also said to my dh, "Do anything, just make grocery money" So he is a security guard 2 nights a week.
Life is easy peasy. We have savings, but are living, more or less on what we make. We have our own little house (or moneypit) and when I look out the window I can see the ocean.
We are lucky, being Canadians, because health care is just not a consideration at all, it is very inexpensive. I did have surgery last year and paid nothing for it, nothing at all.
So life is good and easy here. We go to the beach, go camping, putter in the garden, read, sleep and hang out. We recreate a lot more than work.
I am 56, he is 57 and I can see us doing this for quite a few years to come.
We have no company pensions, but do look forward to our Canada old age pensions in the futre.
Ljevtich and kally, thanks for your thoughts and your stories. Very cool. I have to say, I'm proud of my kids because they are very simple livers--in other words, they are already of the mindset that if you just keep your expenses low, you have the freedom to pursue a calling that has true meaning. i aspire to be like them!
You guys also seem to be on that track--and hopefully (when I'm released from debt prison) I'll meet you there!
I've been retired from paid employment for almost 9 years. I consider myself an activist now and have certain causes I work very hard on. I also do some volunteer work for a couple of non-profits that are doing things that I think are important. I read, walk a lot, travel quite a bit, watch movies, spend time with friends, visit the library in off-busy hours, etc. I feel very lucky to have had these years to do WHATEVER I WANT every day. When I retired at age 53, I said "I just want five years to putt" and I made it past that. I do pay for my individual health care -- it really is possible.
I see baby boomers with government pensions going back to government jobs as contractors -- I know four right now in my personal circle. None need the money to live a decent life. Bothers me...I think baby boomers with a solid finances should think about getting out of the way and letting people have their jobs. I don't think people need "paid" employment to find meaning in their life -- I sure don't. And I hear that excuse often. Some baby boomers seem greedy to me.
crunchycon
6-27-11, 6:44am
DH "unretired" at 55; actually, like so many others in this economy, his job was eliminated. He's doing a combination of teaching part-time, freelance work, and helping out my recently widowed mom (volunteerism, family-style) - I really doubt that a full-time corporate desk job is in his future, but you never know.
I see baby boomers with government pensions going back to government jobs as contractors -- I know four right now in my personal circle. None need the money to live a decent life. Bothers me...I think baby boomers with a solid finances should think about getting out of the way and letting people have their jobs. I don't think people need "paid" employment to find meaning in their life -- I sure don't.
Most of us on this site are among a minority who can develop an identity and self-worth without paid work. It's hard to avoid a life of programming by society, and I'm not going to blame those who can't.
Relatively high income families also draw non-working family members who need support, or simply want to live off others. I'm familiar with two cases in our own social circle of people who seem affluent until you figure out how many of their extended family they are supporting.
Finally, in today's economic turbulence, it's very hard to judge what is enough money to walk away from the workforce on--especially with pathetically low Treasury and CD interest.
Most of us on this site are among a minority who can develop an identity and self-worth without paid work. It's hard to avoid a life of programming by society, and I'm not going to blame those who can't.
...
True, however, through my website and through facebook, I think my DH and I have changed some people's outlooks and ideas about working and not working. They believe if we can do it, someday, maybe they can do it too. If more of us on sites like this can help change people outlooks and ideas about how much money do you really need in retirement, and getting fulfillment in volunteering as you get older, it would certainly help people with their self-worth. Just a thought.
flowerseverywhere
6-28-11, 8:57am
... and getting fulfillment in volunteering as you get older, it would certainly help people with their self-worth.
after I left the workforce I tried a number of volunteer gigs and haven't yet found one that has worked out. I still work on the library book sales and do a few small things but by and large my fulfillment comes from my daily life. My gardens, my cooking, walks and bikerides all are comforting and purposeful to me as I try to tread as lightly as possible on the planet and use as few chemicals and packaging as possible. You can become just as busy and crazy as if you had a full time toxic job, and many volunteer groups are just as toxic as a bad work environment.
I have come to believe that finding your own meaning and purpose in life is so highly individual there is no script to follow. I find no comfort in material things, however one of my neighbors loves her nicely decorated home and takes great joy in having a clean house.
ApatheticNoMore
6-28-11, 2:40pm
So to answer your questions: I believe that you could "retire" at any age, as long as you have the money to not be a drag on society. Meaning that, retiring from the workforce so that you can get food stamps, unemployment, and live off of the generosity of others is not retiring. Retiring means that you have a means to support yourself and others if necessary.
I think you way overestimate how available such systems are (nope, not collecting anything here). At best I could imagine some 60 year old collecting unemployment for 2 years until he qualifies for social security. I do know those who have done that. But, realistically almost noone is going to hire a 60 year old ANYWAY! Corporate America doesn't want 60 year old worker bees (even skilled ones). Wal-Mart greeter maybe?
I think there is a very definite age limit that I could continue to get hired in my field. I'm in my 30s so I'm okay, 40s might be ok too but getting iffier. But beyond that, forget it. There are possible paths to still be employable but they are: management, self-employment, a different career (professional self-employment careers or very in-demand careers like nursing might work). That is in some sense the personal growth I want to have aspired to by that age anyway (this corporate worker bee forever and ever is just not it). But if everyone did it all those things would be overcrowded as well. Yea, if one can retire and wants to, why not do it, and make room for those who need the jobs.
P.S.: some of age discrimination is just cultural baggage (garbage :)) about old people not being as up-to-date or able to learn new things or whatever. But there is a VERY DEFINITE economic motive I think and it's HUGE. A company with a younger workforce will pay much less on average on health insurance that a company with an older workforce, hence every company wants to be that company with a younger workforce. Why this obvious stuff isn't mentioned when age discrimination is, I don't know.
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