Moral Pizza Dilemma

[Yppej]

After the owner's racist remark, our household and apparently lots of other people stopped buying Papa John's pizza. Now to try to win back customers they have sent us enough rewards points to get several free pizzas. You only pay a small delivery charge that does not cover their costs, and whatever you choose to tip, which goes to the employee not the business.

My son asked me, is it better to not get the pizza, or to make them lose money by getting the free pizza? What do you think?

[Alan]

After the owner's racist remark, our household and apparently lots of other people stopped buying Papa John's pizza. Now to try to win back customers they have sent us enough rewards points to get several free pizzas. You only pay a small delivery charge that does not cover their costs, and whatever you choose to tip, which goes to the employee not the business.

My son asked me, is it better to not get the pizza, or to make them lose money by getting the free pizza? What do you think?
The franchise owners and employees haven't offended you have they? They're the ones most directly affected by your boycott.

[Yppej]

Franchise fees go to corporate.

[Teacher Terry]

Good point Alan.

[iris lilies]

I read this title as “Morel Pizza dilemma” and immediately thought to myself “why is that a dilemma? Yes one should always have morel mushrooms on your pizza if you can get them! “

Haha, No I am not food oriented, ha ha


I don’t know how to answer that, it is a good question if one wants to punish the restaurant corporation. I can never remember who is good and who is bad. I drove past a Chick-fil-A the other day and just remember that there is lots of controversy and they were boycotts but I couldn’t remember if I should or should not boycott.

[Yppej]

Chick-fil-A's exec spoke out opposing same sex marriage.

[Teacher Terry]

I love chick fila so much. We didn’t have one until a year ago. I am a hypocrite because I eat there. I won’t shop at hobby lobby though. I would not take the free pizza unless I intended to patronize them again.

[Teacher Terry]

Chick f-a is very religious and even are closed on Sunday.

[Simplemind]

John or no John, his pizza is so bad you couldn't get me to eat it for free.

[Teacher Terry]

A friend of mine brings over pizzas that you cook yourself and they are delicious. Not sure if it is johns or Murphy.

[iris lilies]

Chick-fil-A's exec spoke out opposing same sex marriage.
Ah, so I can eat at Chick fill a. Thanks!
Actually I have never eaten there and probably will not take it up. Has nothing to do with speechifying of the CEO.

[iris lilies]

I love chick fila so much. We didn’t have one until a year ago. I am a hypocrite because I eat there. I won’t shop at hobby lobby though. I would not take the free pizza unless I intended to patronize them again.

Friday I walked my cart through aisles of Hobby Lobby, didnt buy anything, and left.

So take THAT Hobby Lobby!

It is just too big, too much plastic, too much tin decor crap, it is just too much Made in China junk. Afterwards I drove to Michaels, did the same thing although they are smaller. I ended up at Joann’s buying the stuff I needed for the flower show.
I sort of felt like this was a Papa bear, mama bear, baby bear situation and I ended up at the mama bear store which was just the right size.

[Teacher Terry]

The breaded Chick-fil sandwich is so good you will get hooked if you ever go. I like Michaels. Haven’t been in a Joanne’s for years. I mostly shop online now.

[Simplemind]

Teacher Terry that would be Papa Murphy's. We eat one every Friday night!

[Teacher Terry]

Thanks SM. It is yummy! I cook sometimes for a male friend of ours and he reciprocated by bringing pizza. It’s really reasonable.

[Rogar]

If it is just one person, even if it's the corporate owner, I don't see a lot of sense to a boycott in today's mega business sized world. If it here was a wide spread problem, policy or attitude through the corporate structure, then maybe. The owner of a regional grocery chain around here was a supposed molester of a sort I don't recall and a friend refused to shop there. There way I saw it, they provided a quality product at fair prices. The employees were generally more pleasant than other places, seemed to be well treated and it was convenient.

Alternately, there is the recent case of a small bakery owner refusing to make a wedding cake for a gay couple. I could see boycotting a much smaller business like that, where losing more than just a few customers could impact their profits.

I think mostly it's a personal decision and you have to live up to your ethical standards, but in today's big business and global enterprises, there are going to be a few bad eggs along the supply chain. To me it's a matter of magnitude and degree.

[Yppej]

Thank you Rogar. Yours is more the type of response I was anticipating than Chik fil A's sandwiches taste good. (So do morel mushrooms, by the way - no dilemma there.)

[Lainey]

If it was just the owner's personal remarks that's one thing. But when the businesses file lawsuits so they don't have to provide birth control as part of their employee's insurance package, that's another. So, no Hobby Lobby or Chick-Fil-A in my household.

[Teacher Terry]

Lainey, I think it was Alan that has said in the past that they only objected to paying for some BC like the morning after pill and not all.

[LDAHL]

I never thought much of trying to punish people I disagreed with through their business or employer. To me, the quality of the product or service should speak for itself.

If Ben and Jerry want to flip the House, it won’t mean I will counterattack throughChunky Monkey. I will admit to not being that interested in Bernie’s Yearning.

[Lainey]

Lainey, I think it was Alan that has said in the past that they only objected to paying for some BC like the morning after pill and not all.

They took it all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court.
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/27/magazine/what-the-hobby-lobby-ruling-means-for-america.html

[Alan]

They took it all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court.
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/27/magazine/what-the-hobby-lobby-ruling-means-for-america.htmlAnd rightly so! In it's natural state, government exists to either promote or restrict liberties. People of principle should stand up at every opportunity and make their case to ensure religious liberty is not taken away.

[Teacher Terry]

Corporations are not people and I agree with the dissenting justices.

[Alan]

Corporations are not people and I agree with the dissenting justices.What about a union, or fraternal organization or homeowners association, or any other legal entity created to represent a group, are they people? Or would you suggest that any collective group loses representative rights?

[Chicken lady]

I’m with Robert Reich on the corporations (“i’ll Believe corporations are people when Texas executes one”)

i’m bad at boycotts, because I don’t shop enough to matter. Usually the places I would boycott I was already avoiding. (Dd finally hit to gonto a chick-fil-a with a friend in college and reported back to me “oh my god, their food sucks!”)

there is a local grocery chain chain that would maybe notice if I boycotted them. I tried to boycott them once during a labor strike, but they resolved it so fast I didn’t need groceries.

[Teacher Terry]

I don’t shop a lot so only the grocery store and where I buy the dog food, treats etc would ever notice.

[early morning]

I am well aware that boycotting places I don't like won't impact them, but I feel like I have to live with my own moral code as best I can. So - no big box stores as much as possible, esp. WalMart. No Chick-fil-a, no Hobby Lobby, no local business that I know to be racist/misogynist/homophobic. Do they know or care? Of course not. We don't buy that much anyway (except coffee....) But if I can't be bothered to follow my own values, what does that say about me?

[Yppej]

Corporations are not people and I agree with the dissenting justices.

Massachusetts has a ballot initiative this year "to consider and recommend potential amendments to the United States Constitution that corporations do not have the same Constitutional rights as human beings...."

It will be interesting to see if this goes anywhere.

[Lainey]

Massachusetts has a ballot initiative this year "to consider and recommend potential amendments to the United States Constitution that corporations do not have the same Constitutional rights as human beings...."

It will be interesting to see if this goes anywhere.

That's good news. AZ is also a ballot initiative state and I'd love to see that happen here too.

[iris lilies]

Massachusetts has a ballot initiative this year "to consider and recommend potential amendments to the United States Constitution that corporations do not have the same Constitutional rights as human beings...."

It will be interesting to see if this goes anywhere.
It will not go anywhere.

[Teacher Terry]

HL, won’t pay for IUD’s and for some women who can’t take the pill it is the next best option and is also used to treat some medical conditions. I can see where they have objections to the morning after pill being that they are religious. If you have employees leave your religion at the door and run it as a business. The bakery that wouldn’t make the cake for the gay couple has definitely seen a negative impact on their business. People need to separate personal from business or don’t own a business.

[JaneV2.0]

If it was just the owner's personal remarks that's one thing. But when the businesses file lawsuits so they don't have to provide birth control as part of their employee's insurance package, that's another. So, no Hobby Lobby or Chick-Fil-A in my household.

Too bad about the CEO's beliefs; I believe 99% of wars are stupid, immoral, and criminal, but that doesn't keep the government from taxing me to support them.

[Tenngal]

I am all for the discounted pizza and helping the local employee...........free food is good food.

[Float On]

I'd probably go ahead and order. I haven't followed the Papa John's saga. Did he apologize and was it a change of his belief or is he sticking by his statement? If he extended a "I was stupid and said a stupid thing" sort of apology, that would work for me. I'd order and tip the driver big.

edited to add: I make my own pizza. The most I've made in an evening is 22. Occasionally we'll grab some Dominoes it is so much better than it was when I was in college. In fact I grabbed 2 on Saturday night and took them to the movie theater for the employees to have a late night snack (my son works there and they let me in to late shows for free). I've not ordered Papa Johns in probably 12 years - just never cared for it and their location isn't convenient nor do they deliver to my address.

[catherine]

I'd rather boycott Monsanto than Papa Johns.

I'd rather boycott Roundup than pizza.

And I'd rather boycott all crappy chain pizza's than just one.

However, I do believe in "voting with your dollars" so you have to spend according to your own conscience. If your inner voice is telling you you can't support a racist, boycott. Unfortunately, if we boycotted everyone who ever had a racist thought, we'd be in our back yards producing our own food. And frankly, if we were to be honest, maybe we'd have to boycott ourselves on the same principle. We can ID many business owners with bad character these days, but you can't ID them all.

[JaneV2.0]

Nobody is immune to uncharitable thoughts about all kinds of people, but one doesn't have to express them or act on them.

But we're not talking random thoughts here--we're talking "putting faith into action" by expecting our employees to abide by our religious strictures.

[iris lilies]

So amusing, I just stopped in on a break from working in the garden. I am on the internet to check weather forecast, will there be rain? Because otherwise I am gonna get out the Roundup and spray sidewalks and pathways.

And if I cant Roundup today, i will tomorrow after rain.

[catherine]

So amusing, I just stopped in on a break from working in the garden. I am on the internet to check weather forecast, will there be rain? Because otherwise I am gonna get out the Roundup and spray sidewalks and pathways.

And if I cant Roundup today, i will tomorrow after rain.

Grrr.. razzle frazzle. Gosh darn those Roundup users!!

I love you anyway, IL. :)

[Rogar]

I'd rather boycott Monsanto than Papa Johns.

I'd rather boycott Roundup than pizza.

And I'd rather boycott all crappy chain pizza's than just one.



I'm not sure that residential use of roundup amounts to anything significant, but I could go with boycotting GMO's or only buying organic, which has more implications other than Roundup use. I could say that I at least try to do that, but there are times when convenience comes before practicality and falls into the category of cutting off one's nose to spite toes. Now that Monsanto is part of Bayer, actually boycotting the corporate entity could get complicated.

I make pizza routinely and find it to be such a simple task that I don't ever actually buy pizza. I put together a yeast crust in the morning which takes maybe ten minutes and by dinner time roll it out and spread ingredients. I've generally timed this and it takes about as long as it takes to preheat the oven.

[JaneV2.0]

Roundup (glyphosate) is considered a possible carcinogen and a probable bee-killer, and it doesn't break down in water, so we can just add it to the lengthy list of toxins with which we are despoiling the one planet we have. For a genuine horror show, watch Bitter Harvest, which I still remember from forty years age. We haven't learned much over the years.

[Rogar]

No argument from me that people should generally avoid using roundup, not to mention various other chemical insecticides and herbicides. I do think there is a difference of degrees between occasional use of a liter spray bottle around the home and using it on nearly every acre of soy and corn grown in the US with the exception of organics. It also goes beyond immediate health effects to the exclusive planting of a mono culture of roundup ready crops. To me, boycotting roundup or Monsanto also implies boycotting most or all GMOs and buying organic wheat, corn, and soy products especially.

[Yppej]

Well we decided to use the points for free pizza today but they had expired. Moral dilemma solved.