View Full Version : Sears Bankruptcy?
dado potato
10-14-18, 5:11pm
I see the rumor that Sears (US) will file for bankruptcy tonight... to keep the stores open for one more Christmas holiday season.
Sears Canada ceased operations in January 2018. It was rough on employees.
In my little town, "Sears Hometown" would be missed, if it closes. It is one of the few places where we can shop for home appliances, tools, etc.
Times changed … I remember in the 1950s and 60s how important that Sears Catalog was in small-town Mid-West America. I distinctly recall the feel of the coated paper and the soft sound of the catalog pages turning. I would call it the weightless sound of consumerism.
We had indoor plumbing, but those who had outdoor privies made further use of old Sears Catalogs, to be sure.
catherine
10-14-18, 5:17pm
In my neck of the woods, I see Sears declining and am not surprised at the bankruptcy filing. No one goes there for "the softer side of Sears." I do respect Kenmore appliances and have had many in my life. Ovens, washing machines, sewing machines... they were a pretty reliable brand.
It's easy to be nostalgic about the decline of Sears, but there are so many retail stores that are dying. My favorite Lord & Taylor will be an empty building on 5th Avenue. Barnes & Noble are selling toys and novelties in retail stores now. The internet has signaled the end of an era. We old folk can talk about our trips in white gloves to the department stores of the past, but those days are gone. It will be interesting to see if malls can effectively re-invent themselves. I was at Paramus Mall in NJ a little while ago and they were touting a new "family experience" of shopping. I'll be interested in seeing what that means.
SteveinMN
10-14-18, 7:37pm
Honestly, I'm surprised Sears didn't declare bankruptcy years ago. They've been burning the furniture for firewood for years. At this point all that's left is the Kenmore brand (Craftsman and DieHard have been sold off) and the real estate on which most of the stores sit. Much of the rest has been stripped by their CEO and the various corporations he's formed for that purpose. A sad comedown for the "Amazon of the 20th Century".
I don't see malls reinventing themselves, either, mostly because there are too darn many of them. The U.S. really is "over-retailed" and we're starting to see the reckoning of that. On-line shopping (Amazon in particular) has done its part, but the consumer landscape has changed so that waiting a day or two or five to have something shipped to our homes supercedes our willingness to go a store and get it right now. For numerous reasons, too, hanging out at the mall as a community gathering place has lost its charm; the number of empty stores in the mall because of that changed landscape provides even less of a reason to go.
I'm afraid we're going to see for decades to come many asphalt seas surrounding huge empty compounds for which developers can find no financially-feasible reuse, leaving them breeding grounds for whatever happens to abandoned properties or leaving municipalities to bite the bullet and encourage other uses by throwing money at them. :(
Teacher Terry
10-14-18, 9:15pm
My kids made their Christmas wish lists from the Sears’s and Penney catalogs.
catherine
10-14-18, 9:21pm
My kids made their Christmas wish lists from the Sears’s and Penney catalogs.
Haha.. I used to give my kids the Sears catalog and I would tell them to look through it and pick out things they'd like "Santa" to bring. So I left them with the catalog, but then I heard a strange chant coming from the living room: so I went in and they were going through the catalog, turning each page and sing-singing their wish to Santa: "Everything on the page".. (turn page) "Everything on the page." (turn page) "Everything on the page."
Teacher Terry
10-14-18, 10:17pm
To funny Catherine:))
Beware folks Sears Canada decline was NOT good for employees, benifets and pensions
lost, maintenance staff gone, warranties on appliances not hououred,
gift card holders; a lot of people did not get that as of a certain day the store
was sold out to liquidators and the gift cards ceased to have value.
BIG liquidation sales that were a lot of crap never even sold at Sears barely
marked down till the last days.
SAD!
ApatheticNoMore
10-15-18, 1:45am
Some Kenmore appliances were good, and that should be worth a lot as there is no end of junk out there. But the rest of it I never shopped either. Too bad they couldn't just make a profit as an appliance manufacturer and retailer.
I finally found found nice cotton camisoles I liked there for $4 apiece, after months of searching. I should get over there sometime and buy up what they have left.
Discover and possibly Land's End should survive them.
rosarugosa
10-15-18, 5:56am
It's kind of sad to see the end of an era. Every appliance we ever bought was from Sears. I liked that I could go there to try on Lands End items or return them if ordered online. They used to have a decent selection of petite jeans, but they got rid of their petite department about a year ago.
Yppej: You should definitely get them while you can!
dado potato
10-15-18, 9:42am
Sears did in fact file for Chapter 11 this morning. I see that among the major creditors is the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corp, "Amount of Liability Unknown"... so the retirees' fate with Sears (US) will be determined by the PBGC. Hopefully the retirees will be treated more generously than the retirees of Sears Canada.
Seems like Lands End quality declined after acquired by Sears. Then again, quality of most everything has declined since all made in China.
It's very strange, especially I think for those of us of a certain age, to see these iconic brands going belly up one after the other. I have a feeling, though, that somehow brick and mortar stores will be reinvented. Probably the bigger online retailers will start to open showrooms (which I believe is already happening in places) and people will start to value the remaining brick and mortar stores more highly lest they disappear entirely. There are some items people don't like to buy without first seeing the physical object. And perhaps abandoned malls will reinvent themselves as actual community centers as opposed to the faux community centers they are now. Suppose your town could pick up space in a half-empty mall for a song, and install a branch public library, a police substation, a rec center, etc., all centrally located with ample parking? Could be pretty attractive.
ApatheticNoMore
10-15-18, 10:37am
Physical clothing stores kind of seem like showrooms already now. You can get an idea what they have and it's much better than pure ordering online, but they now carry very limited colors, only one item in each size if that (so so much for buying two pairs of pants if you like them etc.). So you try on and buy as much online as off of stuff like you've tried on.
Miss Cellaneous
10-15-18, 11:21am
In the 60s and 70s, when my dad was stationed overseas, the Sears catalog was one of our lifelines back to the States. The PXs on base catered mostly to the military, so getting clothing and shoes for us kids wasn't easy. We'd mail an order to Sears and in 6-10 weeks would get a package back. It was an exciting day when that happened.
Without internet and with about 5 hours of US TV a day (only one channel), Sears kept us abreast of new styles and trends, not just in clothing, but home decor and tools. It's amazing to remember how cut off we were from the US. There was a daily military newspaper, and we got the Sunday edition of the Chicago Sun_Times about a week late--they offered a free Sunday subscription to the military. And the DOD had a radio station and TV network in each country, which had some news. The TV station aired from about 6 pm to 11 pm, longer on weekends, carrying shows from all 4 of the networks. To call my grandparents back home, Dad had to go to an office on base and arrange for a long-distance call several days ahead of time. Letters could take 2-3 weeks to arrive.
The Sears catalog was a huge part of our lives when we were overseas.
What I am reading is that malls are using their space to build needed community centres with residential sections surrounding service providers such as groceries, pharmacies, clothing, health providers, fitness centres etc., all with supplied parking and excellent road access.
Teacher Terry
10-15-18, 12:41pm
That’s a great idea but hasn’t happened here yet.
We had an outdoor outlet mall turned into a ball park for tournaments.
Teams can stay on-site in bunk rooms. 5 ball fields. It's really nice.
https://www.ballparksofamerica.com/
And it's Branson, so there is plenty to do when not playing ball - it's right behind the water park for starters.
All of our K-Marts and the Sears closed last year. Once K-Mart bought Sears, it really went downhill. I still have my Kenmore sewing machine that I bought in 1977.
SteveinMN
10-15-18, 6:46pm
And perhaps abandoned malls will reinvent themselves as actual community centers as opposed to the faux community centers they are now. Suppose your town could pick up space in a half-empty mall for a song, and install a branch public library, a police substation, a rec center, etc., all centrally located with ample parking? Could be pretty attractive.
Not to say that wouldn't work but I will note that the (freestanding) Sears nearest our home has one of the busiest DMV offices in the state in leased space on its second floor. Sears announced today that this store (finally) will be closing. Maybe the foot traffic for the DMV postponed the inevitable but it wasn't enough to stop the slide. No news on where the DMV office will go. On the other hand, this will leave 14 acres of land -- right near downtown, light rail, and freeways -- available for redevelopment. This could turn out OK after all.
The Sears store in our nearby mall is clearing everything out, 30-70% off inventory. Ironically, their ads also say they're hiring for the upcoming season. (?) When they're gone, the mall is going to have only a Penney's and Macy's and then the usual cheesy mall stores.
My family traditionally bought Kenmore appliances, and I still use my Kenmore boat anchor, er, sewing machine from 1977. It'll never die. We also usually shopped for Craftsman tools, although the quality seems to have declined in recent years.
Too bad. I had similar catalog dreams like some of you had, too.
sweetana3
10-15-18, 7:30pm
Growing up in Alaska, the catalogs were how we knew what was available in the "outside" world. Still remember the toy catalog every year.
We are losing the last Sears in Indianapolis.
All of our K-Marts and the Sears closed last year. Once K-Mart bought Sears, it really went downhill. I still have my Kenmore sewing machine that I bought in 1977.
Last year I was grocery shopping in Jamestown, NY, at a large supermarket next to a Kmart. I didn't even know Kmart was still operating, and I went in to have a look. It was a Saturday and the supermarket was very crowded, but in the Kmart you could have fired a cannon and not hit anyone. The store was actually very clean and well-stocked--just no customers.
Sears is based in suburban Chicago. I have two friends who work there, a married couple. Waiting to hear what happens with their jobs. They're corporate.
As someone who loathes bricks and mortar shopping I'm not particularly despondent or surprised. I can view a much broader range of products online and shop around multiple stores, all without using any gas, or even getting out of my bathrobe. And if I find something I want to buy I can take a minute to look for a coupon before committing to the purchase. And at the end of the day it's surely more energy efficient for a big brown truck to tool around my neighborhood delivering purchases every block or two than it is for each of me and my neighbors to drive ourselves over to the mall to buy stuff.
I just wonder how long it'll be before Amazon starts selling tiny houses, just as Sears used to sell regular houses in their catalog.
catherine
10-15-18, 9:41pm
As someone who loathes bricks and mortar shopping I'm not particularly despondent or surprised. I can view a much broader range of products online and shop around multiple stores, all without using any gas, or even getting out of my bathrobe. And if I find something I want to buy I can take a minute to look for a coupon before committing to the purchase. And at the end of the day it's surely more energy efficient for a big brown truck to tool around my neighborhood delivering purchases every block or two than it is for each of me and my neighbors to drive ourselves over to the mall to buy stuff.
I just wonder how long it'll be before Amazon starts selling tiny houses, just as Sears used to sell regular houses in their catalog.
https://gizmodo.com/the-11-best-tiny-houses-you-can-buy-on-amazon-1819377589
https://gizmodo.com/the-11-best-tiny-houses-you-can-buy-on-amazon-1819377589
:~) I guess I should've looked first!
gimmethesimplelife
10-15-18, 10:09pm
Today I was off my work so I took a cluster of mystery shops at Paradise Valley Mall, a slowly dying mall near the very upscale suburb of Paradise Valley, Arizona. In this mall I believe is the last open Sears store in the Phoenix area (?), two others that I know of have long since been closed. I walked into this Sears as I heard about the bankruptcy filing and I also heard their shares closed at less than 50 cents last Friday.
This Sears location was essentially a retail graveyard. It was not devoid of stock as many Sears stores are said to be, but prices seem high to me and the store itself seems dated to the late 80's slash early 90's. The store needs some sprucing up and better upkeep. As for the stock itself, nothing special that you can't easily find elsewhere.
Seriously, I am no business expert but my hunch regardless? Not much longer will Sears exist.....I'm amazed the brutally capitalistic marketplace we are forced to navigate has not long ago pulled the plug on the train wreck that is Sears Holding Company. Rob
PS I did take a picture of the outside of the store for posterity as I am sure the store will not exist much longer and Sears is a storied, long term American retailer.
sweetana3
10-16-18, 6:11am
I pretty much knew they were doomed when I walked into a two storied Sears in our busiest mall on around 10:15am on a weekday and the lights and escalator had not been turned on.
SteveinMN
10-16-18, 9:04am
When [Sears is] gone, the mall is going to have only a Penney's and Macy's and then the usual cheesy mall stores.
Two other former retail giants teetering on the brink, Penney for having forgotten who they were and Macy's for trying to make customers forget who they were (by assimilating locally-loved store chains like Dayton's [here in Minnesota], Marshall Fields, Filene's, etc., into faceless Macy's stores nothing like the stores and brand promises they had). Both have been closing stores by the score over the past years.
There's still room for good retail. Best Buy managed to move out from under the shadow of Amazon by adding service and "gotta see this" to the equation. Nordstrom and Von Maur have continued their slow expansion as word of mouth increases demand by new customers (helps that they don't need to engage in selling all the same stuff as other department store chains). Retail is not dead, but the old paradigm of just shifting boxes out the door is almost gone.
Interesting Twitter thread on how Sears (and its catalog) was a key element in subverting racism (note: possible triggers in comment tweets): https://twitter.com/louishyman/status/1051872178415828993
Sears is based in suburban Chicago. I have two friends who work there, a married couple. Waiting to hear what happens with their jobs. They're corporate.
I've wondered about this, too, Tradd. I was told years ago that Sears employees had a great pension - is this going away too? I'm hoping that long-time employees like that will be taken care of.
dado potato
10-16-18, 1:21pm
If Sears Holdings terminates the pension plans (and that remains to be seen), then the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation would cover the vast majority of the benefits earned by the roughly 90,000 participants. As of last year the 2 defined benefit plans were underfunded by approximately $1.5 billion.
catherine
10-16-18, 1:35pm
If Sears Holdings terminates the pension plans (and that remains to be seen), then the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation would cover the vast majority of the benefits earned by the roughly 90,000 participants. As of last year the 2 defined benefit plans were underfunded by approximately $1.5 billion.
Boy, just shows you that nothing is certain. Imagine working for decades with the promise of a pension and then it evaporates. Golden handcuffs are sometimes just plain old handcuffs.
ToomuchStuff
10-16-18, 2:23pm
What I am reading is that malls are using their space to build needed community centres with residential sections surrounding service providers such as groceries, pharmacies, clothing, health providers, fitness centres etc., all with supplied parking and excellent road access.
They talked about doing that here, in what was one of the area's very first malls. It started out years ago, as an open air mall, and they had talked about doing this style conversion. Several issues came up, such as rental units above retail locations (local laws were used years ago to stop owners apartments above stores), and who is responsible for damages (tenant leaves water running, etc). Stores/buildings not owned by the malls owner (and separate negations, etc).
Eventually, the property was bought up and converted to a new shopping district, with the first tenant being Walmart. That store is not a 24 hour store, as both homeless and fake homeless moved in.
All of our K-Marts and the Sears closed last year. Once K-Mart bought Sears, it really went downhill. I still have my Kenmore sewing machine that I bought in 1977.
Oh yea. I remember it being considered a good store when I was a kid, but their big retail/mall locations didn't open till a new mall in 77-78. Everyone seemed to visit the warehouse/outlet. Things changed several times over the years, and I am surprised there are still locations after they sold off so many of their brand names. I expected it to be what Montgomery Wards is now, a web presence owned by who knows who.
It's been a few years, but I went online and into the store, remembering how stiff those Toughskin jeans were when I was a kid. I wanted some adult ones as work pants and I don't think the kids working, had a clue what I was talking about.
Pension games are coming. Reminds me of IBM.
The centrally located Sears in Austin is closing and the developers are already making plans. If retail, it looks like Kohls or Walmart. The demographics there however point to something more ike the usual mixed use - retail on bottom, apartments on top that seem to be favored there. One 70s mall there has already been transformed into a campus for the community college with apartments going up for students on what used to be the massive parking lots. The old JC Penneys in that mall now houses the STEM classes.
A rather sad sign of the times. In my younger days I can remember people working at Sears as a career job. Last time I was in it was more like the fast food employee line up. They used to stock products that were solid quality at mid-range prices, sort of like the Ford of days gone by. It seems like the successful brick and mortar retail these days is either discount Walmart types with questionable quality or niche stores with a focus on service and quality like REI.
SteveinMN
10-17-18, 10:19am
It seems like the successful brick and mortar retail these days is either discount Walmart types with questionable quality or niche stores with a focus on service and quality like REI.
That same hollowing out of the middle has already largely occurred in the grocery business. Walmart, ALDI, and, to a lesser extent, Costco/Sam's Club, Target and regional "warehouse" chains have soaked up the lower end and chains like Publix, Wegman's, and Lund's & Byerly's are doing well at the high end. The middle is having a really tough time relying on more than location and relative convenience.
ToomuchStuff
10-17-18, 10:43am
I wonder if anyone else is having more issues with the big warehouse clubs? What I have been finding/noticing is more of the stuff we get (work stuff, why I go there mostly), is becoming online only.
sweetana3
10-17-18, 10:53am
Don't ever like something too much if you buy it at a warehouse store. It will be discontinued. This keeps happening to us at Costco.
catherine
10-17-18, 11:05am
Don't ever like something too much if you buy it at a warehouse store. It will be discontinued. This keeps happening to us at Costco.
I agree--because the stuff is curated and then I'm sure very heavily negotiated with the vendors for rock-bottom prices, things tend to disappear. We can probably feel confident that the Kirkland brand stuff will always be there, though.
ApatheticNoMore
10-17-18, 11:29am
Imagine working for decades with the promise of a pension and then it evaporates. Golden handcuffs are sometimes just plain old handcuffs.
I'd sign up for any handcuffs anyone wants me to wear just for the promise of working somewhere decades. :~)
Yea but when retail employment craters it's really going to be ugly out there.
mschrisgo2
10-17-18, 1:02pm
I was last in a Sears store 10 years ago (just did the math, grandson was 9). DD had asked me to pick up 3 pairs of pants for him that were on sale starting that day, store being on my way home and a trek for her. I got in the store about 6:20, having stopped to indulge in mall food for dinner. I found the boys pants and his size quickly, then began the search for a cashier. I walked the entire store, no employees at all. After about 25 minutes I decided to forget it, laid the pants down on a counter and started out the door back into the mall. To my great surprise, it was locked and the alarm went off!! Mall security arrived very quickly, and they called local PD, per procedure if someone is locked inside a store.
I explained that I was trying to buy pants for my grandson, somehow got locked inside, and it was only just then a few minutes before 7 on a weekday, and the mall was (supposed to be) open until 9!! PD couldn't reach any Sears personnel either! All this time, I was still eyeing the pants I was supposed to buy for DGS, the officer asked how I was going to pay for them, when I told him Cash, he said, "OK, here, you take the pants, we'll leave the cash here with PD phone number." He took my information, apologized for the inconvenience and sent me on my way.
How Sears has survived the 10 years since then is a mystery to me. And that location still is not on the closure list!
I was last in a Sears store 10 years ago (just did the math, grandson was 9). DD had asked me to pick up 3 pairs of pants for him that were on sale starting that day, store being on my way home and a trek for her. I got in the store about 6:20, having stopped to indulge in mall food for dinner. I found the boys pants and his size quickly, then began the search for a cashier. I walked the entire store, no employees at all. After about 25 minutes I decided to forget it, laid the pants down on a counter and started out the door back into the mall. To my great surprise, it was locked and the alarm went off!! Mall security arrived very quickly, and they called local PD, per procedure if someone is locked inside a store.
I explained that I was trying to buy pants for my grandson, somehow got locked inside, and it was only just then a few minutes before 7 on a weekday, and the mall was (supposed to be) open until 9!! PD couldn't reach any Sears personnel either! All this time, I was still eyeing the pants I was supposed to buy for DGS, the officer asked how I was going to pay for them, when I told him Cash, he said, "OK, here, you take the pants, we'll leave the cash here with PD phone number." He took my information, apologized for the inconvenience and sent me on my way.
How Sears has survived the 10 years since then is a mystery to me. And that location still is not on the closure list!
I worked PT at Sears briefly, one Christmas. I had to pass a rigorous (retail fitness?) test to land employment. I suppose I rated "honest and trustworthy" because they assigned me to fine jewelry. I loved the CIA-level testing for a minimum-wage job, but hey. Shortly after that I got a major upgrade at my primary employer, so I happily resigned.
Fast forward many years, I ventured into a Sears to buy some home improvement stuff (the only products I ever bought there--such lackluster stock--ho hum). I stood in line for what seemed a long time, and when it was finally my turn, the cashier turned me away and told me to go upstairs to the credit office. I'm sure everyone in line thought I was delinquent or wanted for theft or something. Foolishly I obeyed--I should have just left--only to find that I needed to be checked out as legit since I hadn't used my credit card for some time. Are you kidding me? I think that was the last time I set foot in one of their stores. They are a textbook example of how not to manage everything from choosing stock to customer relations to staffing to responding to consumer trends and probably a lot more. Good riddance, say I.
I will not attempt to offer a final benediction for Sears because I hope it is not one for the American middle class as well. The vanishing of the department store is also one of the generation who worked their way out of the depression and served in many capacities during World War Two. Going to a department store was a big deal and not merely a transaction. If one walked into Wanamaker's or Strawbridge and Clothier in Philadelphia, there really was someone to help you who took their job seriously! It was not an anonymous worker in an Amazon facility running back and forth between storage bins.
Sears was well once a lot better than it was recently, a shadow of its former self. It's passing as a familiar institution is less important than taking note of the many people who labored there, including a long time friend. It's easy to overlook that a large part of many peoples' lives were spent working there. Ed Lampert will be able to sell the land and buildings to recoup his investment but they deserve recognition. bicyclist Oh and I had a J.C. Higgins bike sold by Sears)
Ultralight
12-4-18, 6:05pm
I was watching a YouTube music video from the mid 1970s. And someone posted a comment:
"Let's face it. Back then was better."
I feel like American Culture jumped the shark at some point. When exactly, I am not sure. Maybe 1959? 1980? 1991?
someone posted a comment:
"Let's face it. Back then was better."
For whom was it better?
That said, I would date the shark-jumping to the very early 1980s, when the prevailing mood shifted from "we're all working on making a bigger pie" to "watch out -- that group over there wants to steal your piece of pie".
For whom was it better?
That said, I would date the shark-jumping to the very early 1980s, when the prevailing mood shifted from "we're all working on making a bigger pie" to "watch out -- that group over there wants to steal your piece of pie".
I thought it switched from "We're all doing the best job for the customer" to "Profit uber alles--don't stumble or you'll be trampled!" (And don't forget to develop your "brand.") Shudder.
That fighting over the pie thing is a classic divide and conquer gambit, and it's worked its evil magic.
The founder of Panera Bread thinks the problem lies largely with Wall Street:
https://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/the-founder-of-panera-bread-explains-the-economic-forces-that-led-to-trump
"Over the last few years, however, Shaich has come to believe that the current business environment is far less amenable to the process of building companies like his. Wall Street has embraced the idea that companies exist solely to serve the holders of their stock. Under this way of thinking, managers of companies should focus their actions on driving short-term value for their shareholders, and should pay far less (or no) regard to other constituents who may have a stake in the business, such as employees, customers, or members of the community."
In my life, 9/11 was the turning point. Our worldview became one of fear and risk, no more rose colored glasses for the Americans.
We then joined post world war 2 Europe in our world view.
Teacher Terry
12-4-18, 9:58pm
Many of the movie theaters have only 1 way in and out so it does cross my mind but I still go. I was supposed to fly a few weeks after 9/11 and had to change my ticket for 6 months later.
The founder of Panera Bread thinks the problem lies largely with Wall Street:
https://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/the-founder-of-panera-bread-explains-the-economic-forces-that-led-to-trump
"Over the last few years, however, Shaich has come to believe that the current business environment is far less amenable to the process of building companies like his. Wall Street has embraced the idea that companies exist solely to serve the holders of their stock. Under this way of thinking, managers of companies should focus their actions on driving short-term value for their shareholders, and should pay far less (or no) regard to other constituents who may have a stake in the business, such as employees, customers, or members of the community."
+1
I've said before that I was always amazed at how the senior leaders of the publicly-traded MegaCorp I worked for would be very nervous about whether their earnings report would satisfy Wall Street. That seemed to be their No. 1 concern, and it was repeated every 3 months because last quarter was over and only the current quarter's info was considered. The short-term focus drove all decision-making - not the engineers and scientists and other highly-educated staff.
And with every other company forced to do the same rug dance it's no wonder the average employee has been left behind.
I think we sometimes have a tendency toward a certain level of unjustified nostalgia about the past. We want to compare the present time unfavorably to an era where we imagine politicians were honest and civil, businesses placed the public good over profit, pensions were generous and common and the news sources were objective.
But is that really the case? I suspect our grandparents worried and complained about pretty much the same things we do.
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