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flowerseverywhere
3-13-19, 12:00am
Everyone knows the allegations. I translate the allegations to rich white priviledge of having the money and connections to cheat.

This upset me so much (to think these days I could actually be shocked) because as a middle to upper middle class person, I saw many intelligent young men and women work so hard to get into the named institutions and we’re rejected. So what is this really all about? Is this a tiny sliver or rampant? And what about legacy admissions. As in offspring of parents who attended. You would assume the vast majority are super smart offspring who went to excellent schools, and who worked hard. But are there exceptions? Are we really getting the best of the best to lead our country, Become physicians and so on?

sweetana3
3-13-19, 6:27am
This exact issue, buying into prestigious schools, has been the basis for a variety of TV/movie dramas over the years. There is always the potential when money can be offered for privilege. Money is involved in sports scandals even in high school. Why are we so surprised?

I am actually surprised that someone did the investigation and made it public. Good job.

ps: In my mind, it is Rich privilege because race/gender does not matter here. Money is king.

LDAHL
3-13-19, 6:30am
Leaving aside the proposition that the name on the degree is a reliable indicator that the holder qualifies as “the best of the best”, I was a little surprised so many people resorted to fraud when there are so many perfectly legal ways to give a kid a leg up. You can buy your kid into the better public and private K-12 schools. You can bankroll expensive sports or music extracurriculars. You can pay for international “experiences” for them to list on applications. You can send them to test review courses. You can hire tutors and “admission consultants”. At the upper end, you can be a big-time donor.

But half a million to cheat your kid into USC? Doesn’t that take status anxiety to a whole new level?

flowerseverywhere
3-13-19, 7:25am
Sweetana I mentioned rich white privilege because all the pictures I saw were of the accused were
white people. It is easy to find statistics that show a much higher percentage of white and Asian people are far more likely to be have the kind of wealth we are talking about here.

LADHL your post was right on. I remember way back when I got a book at the library that was a sat workbook and I practiced. Someone must have told me about it and I studied somewhat My sat scores were pretty high and I was no genius in math particularly. Same when I took my nursing boards. But like you said, half a million to USC seems pretty fantastical.
Im hoping Bae weighs in as his daughter recently attended an excellent school on merit and he might have some insight or useful opinion. Because real factual news is so hard to find today

Lainey
3-13-19, 10:05am
flowerseverywhere,
sounds like we both had the same initial thoughts about the applicants who were rejected. The fraudsters took a spot that these deserving students could have gotten.
I did have to laugh a bit at one of the parents who said they were doing this so their daughter did not have to wind up at ASU [which I assumed was Arizona State University]. Bet they're wishing now they took that route!

pinkytoe
3-13-19, 10:19am
I worked quite a while with grad school admissions and was always amazed at how students were selected - sometimes quite randomly. Simply a group of professors sitting around the table with pile A, B and C. Legacy or donor kids were in no matter what. My thought on the current news story is that these particular wealthy students were not very bright so their parents felt compelled to do whatever they had to do to get them into the chute.

catherine
3-13-19, 10:33am
I worked quite a while with grad school admissions and was always amazed at how students were selected - sometimes quite randomly. Simply a group of professors sitting around the table with pile A, B and C. Legacy or donor kids were in no matter what. My thought on the current news story is that these particular wealthy students were not very bright so their parents felt compelled to do whatever they had to do to get them into the chute.

Regarding legacy: My DDs best friend was an excellent high school student, high achiever, into sports and community service AND she had two parents who both went to the university of her dreams. She talked about going to this school constantly. It wasn't one of the top Ivy League schools, but a good university in the South. She DIDN'T GET IN!!! I still can't figure out why.

In general, through my DDs experience with applying to several schools and only actually being accepted into 1 and waitlisted on 1 is that good schools are extremely competitive these days. Obviously I'm biased, but I don't know why my DD, who was in National Honor Society, won regional golf tournaments, did a lot of community service and was even in a major studio movie, was denied admission to Vassar, Brandeis, and Boston College (which I got into in 1970). Her SATs were good but not off the charts, so I blame that, and the fact that I didn't force her to take AP classes and/or send her to a private high school.

LDAHL
3-13-19, 11:01am
Regarding legacy: My DDs best friend was an excellent high school student, high achiever, into sports and community service AND she had two parents who both went to the university of her dreams. She talked about going to this school constantly. It wasn't one of the top Ivy League schools, but a good university in the South. She DIDN'T GET IN!!! I still can't figure out why.

In general, through my DDs experience with applying to several schools and only actually being accepted into 1 and waitlisted on 1 is that good schools are extremely competitive these days. Obviously I'm biased, but I don't know why my DD, who was in National Honor Society, won regional golf tournaments, did a lot of community service and was even in a major studio movie, was denied admission to Vassar, Brandeis, and Boston College (which I got into in 1970). Her SATs were good but not off the charts, so I blame that, and the fact that I didn't force her to take AP classes and/or send her to a private high school.

I know it requires a bit of conjecture on your part, but have her subsequent happiness or achievements suffered at all because of it? I’m guessing a kid like that would do well regardless of the calligraphy on her sheepskin.

I myself attended one of those huge Big Ten educational feedlots, and never really felt the worse for it. Observing the performance of our educated elite, do we have reason to be especially impressed?

Maybe the real scam is how beguiled we are by the mystique of “highly selective intstitutions”.

catherine
3-13-19, 11:23am
I know it requires a bit of conjecture on your part, but have her subsequent happiness or achievements suffered at all because of it?


No, she's surviving quite well.

As for me, I never did go to Boston College, choosing instead a small Catholic girls college which suffered declining enrollment over the past decades and closed down 10 years ago. So I have no Alma Mater now, and I, too, am fine. At least I don't have to deal with fundraising appeals anymore.

Geila
3-13-19, 1:27pm
I liked https://twitter.com/Johnny_L0we comments because these are kids who can have ALL the resources heaped on them to prepare them for application. And of course, I'm sure these parents are just a tiny percentage of those who do this stuff all the time. It just goes to show how the process is stacked against regular kids from working class families. It's very sad.

gimmethesimplelife
3-13-19, 1:48pm
flowerseverywhere,
sounds like we both had the same initial thoughts about the applicants who were rejected. The fraudsters took a spot that these deserving students could have gotten.
I did have to laugh a bit at one of the moms who said they were doing this so their daughter did not have to wind up at ASU [which I assumed was Arizona State University]. Bet they're wishing now they took that route!Ay Carumba, ASU isn't that bad!!! Rob

bae
3-13-19, 2:02pm
Regarding legacy: My DDs best friend was an excellent high school student, high achiever, into sports and community service AND she had two parents who both went to the university of her dreams. .... She DIDN'T GET IN!!! I still can't figure out why.


I have a friend, Princeton '72. His wife is Princeton '72. His son was applying to Princeton. His son did not give in.

At the time, his Dad was a billionaire, and had endowed a chair at the Computer Science Department at Princeton. One of the kid's other references was a billionaire, Princeton '86, and was contributing heavily to the school. I wrote the kid a good reference as well, as he was my summer intern, and I too went to Princeton.

Kid did not get in. Went to UC Santa Cruz, and I think he came out better for it.

I've been involved in the Princeton admissions process for decades now. As I understand it, it is pretty darned random. Almost everyone who applies has sufficient objective qualifications. The decision-making process involves "designing" a class with the correct overall composition of talents and interests, and weighs heavily towards applicants who are "interesting" and not just cookie-cutter checklists.

So if you are a really good violist from the Pacific NW, and Princeton decides they want 2 of them for the incoming class, and your application doesn't get dragged out of the pile until after they've already picked two, you are out of luck. If yours is the first they grab, you are set.

I'm convinced my daughter got in on the strength of her essay about goat-farming on a small remote island. And her viola skills.

iris lilies
3-13-19, 2:05pm
I know it requires a bit of conjecture on your part, but have her subsequent happiness or achievements suffered at all because of it? I’m guessing a kid like that would do well regardless of the calligraphy on her sheepskin.

I myself attended one of those huge Big Ten educational feedlots, and never really felt the worse for it. Observing the performance of our educated elite, do we have reason to be especially impressed?

Maybe the real scam is how beguiled we are by the mystique of “highly selective intstitutions”.

Exactly. I think the Ivies are valued in some circles well beyond their value.
In my youth I bought into the mystique, but now I do not. I think East Coast values are pretty much out of sync with Midwestern values and we really do not care about German cars and estates in Westchester county and the right schools and Wall Street jobs and etc. Are you a captain of industry?yeah so what.


It seems impossible for the East Coast elite to respect that Midwesterners are quite happy with our State U degrees living in our $175,000 houses, driving our Ford pick ups and working in our own communities of like minded people.

Unless I had a super smart child, I wouldn’t much worry about which university they went to. And I do mean super smart I don’t mean garden-variety top student. I would want my super smart child to have the advantages of the super teachers and fellow like minded students In their college experience. But in even that I am Projecting that the top university would provide these things when perhaps maybe they would not who knows.

bae
3-13-19, 2:09pm
Unless I had a super smart child, I wouldn’t much worry about which university they went to. And I do mean super smart I don’t mean garden-variety top student. I would want my super smart child to have the advantages of the super teachers and fellow like minded students In their college experience. But in even that I am Projecting that the top university would provide these things when perhaps maybe they would not who knows.

I think it really matters how good the particular department your child is studying in - the professors, the other students, the resources they have available, and so on. I went to Princeton for physics and statistics - at the time they were the world leader and the top folks in my area of interest were there, and worked with me every day. My daughter went there for Classics, and specialized in such a small sub field that there were only a couple of professors in the USA in her area, most at Princeton. She had to go off to Cambridge for part of her undergraduate study for particular courses. She's now at Cambridge working on her Ph.D., in an absurdly small field.

bae
3-13-19, 2:12pm
What must it be like to be one of the kids who discovers on the front page of the newspaper that their parents bought them a seat in college, and that they didn't get in through their own efforts? Ick.

LDAHL
3-13-19, 2:33pm
What must it be like to be one of the kids who discovers on the front page of the newspaper that their parents bought them a seat in college, and that they didn't get in through their own efforts? Ick.

I think that would be a lesson best learned early in life, hopefully before a ludicrous sense of entitlement and self-importance sets in. Although getting accepted based on your skill in a sport you never played or a test you didn’t take might be a clue for the brighter ones.

bae
3-13-19, 2:34pm
I think that would be a lesson best learned early in life, hopefully before a ludicrous sense of entitlement and self-importance sets in. Although getting accepted based on your skill in a sport you never played or a test you didn’t take might be a clue for the brighter ones.

I read that one parent even arranged for an actor to be a proctor for a fake exam for their kid, so the kid wouldn't suspect.

Yowza.

Teacher Terry
3-13-19, 2:43pm
So bizarre!

LDAHL
3-13-19, 3:03pm
I read that one parent even arranged for an actor to be a proctor for a fake exam for their kid, so the kid wouldn't suspect.

Yowza.

Good God. Sort of makes Chelsea Clinton’s career look like something out of Horatio Alger.

The good news is they can probably afford a lot of therapy.

catherine
3-13-19, 3:35pm
I have a friend, Princeton '72. His wife is Princeton '72. His son was applying to Princeton. His son did not give in.

At the time, his Dad was a billionaire, and had endowed a chair at the Computer Science Department at Princeton. One of the kid's other references was a billionaire, Princeton '86, and was contributing heavily to the school. I wrote the kid a good reference as well, as he was my summer intern, and I too went to Princeton.

Kid did not get in. Went to UC Santa Cruz, and I think he came out better for it.

I've been involved in the Princeton admissions process for decades now. As I understand it, it is pretty darned random. Almost everyone who applies has sufficient objective qualifications. The decision-making process involves "designing" a class with the correct overall composition of talents and interests, and weighs heavily towards applicants who are "interesting" and not just cookie-cutter checklists.

So if you are a really good violist from the Pacific NW, and Princeton decides they want 2 of them for the incoming class, and your application doesn't get dragged out of the pile until after they've already picked two, you are out of luck. If yours is the first they grab, you are set.

I'm convinced my daughter got in on the strength of her essay about goat-farming on a small remote island. And her viola skills.

That makes me feel better...interestingly we had friends with very bright twin girls. They both applied to Princeton. One got in; the other didn't. The one that got in received all kinds of accolades from the community. How did the other one feel, I've always wondered.

As a sidebar, bae, as I wean myself off of my home here just a couple of miles from Princeton, that town is going to be one of the places I really miss. It's a beautiful town. We've spent a lot of time there; Christmas Eve's at Nassau Presbyterian and Winberie's, We've shopped there, eaten there, walked around there. My kids have spent after-school hours there. We've eaten breakfast at PJs Pancake House, snacked at Thomas Sweet and had drinks at the Yankee Doodle Tap Room, Lahiere's. I have clothes from .. well, I won't admit to people here where I have clothes from in Princeton. But I did buy a lot of furniture from the consignment shop on Harrison Street. I gave birth to my daughter outside the emergency room (in the ambulance) at the Medical Center on Witherspoon. Saw many, many shows at McCarter, home of my very favorite play, Our Town (see my auto signature). And my dear BIL even appropriates use of the track for running.

Yeah, I'll miss it. Do you?

bae
3-13-19, 3:42pm
Yeah, I'll miss it. Do you?

I didn't miss it at all, until my daughter started going there and I got to go back without all that academic pressure :-)

I finally, on her graduation day, purchased the wool cloak from Landau's that I'd been dreaming of for 30 years.

pinkytoe
3-13-19, 3:43pm
My former boss at the university where I worked was a New York transplant who received a humongous salary and perks (including plum job for wifey) to move down to the nether regions of Texas and lead our dept. He never stopped putting down all us yokels and eventually moved back so his kids could go to elite private schools at the demands of his wife. I still remember his mean comments about applicants that he had to review for admission. He was the epitome of a snob and gave me a bad taste for "yankees".

catherine
3-13-19, 3:45pm
I didn't miss it at all, until my daughter started going there and I got to go back without all that academic pressure :-)

I finally, on her graduation day, purchased the wool cloak from Landau's that I'd been dreaming of for 30 years.

Landau's! They had a sidewalk sale in December and I bought a hat for BIL for Christmas. And in the 90s I bought a skirt on sale there that I wore for YEARS. I loved it.

bae
3-13-19, 4:25pm
Landau's! They had a sidewalk sale in December and I bought a hat for BIL for Christmas. And in the 90s I bought a skirt on sale there that I wore for YEARS. I loved it.

My previous splurge there was a wool hat I bought my senior year, it's still going strong.

The main walkable shopping area by the University sure has gone upscale over the years. But there are still a few student-affordable gems tucked away here and there.

flowerseverywhere
3-13-19, 5:12pm
I have a friend, Princeton '72. His wife is Princeton '72. His son was applying to Princeton. His son did not give in.

At the time, his Dad was a billionaire, and had endowed a chair at the Computer Science Department at Princeton. One of the kid's other references was a billionaire, Princeton '86, and was contributing heavily to the school. I wrote the kid a good reference as well, as he was my summer intern, and I too went to Princeton.

Kid did not get in. Went to UC Santa Cruz, and I think he came out better for it.

I've been involved in the Princeton admissions process for decades now. As I understand it, it is pretty darned random. Almost everyone who applies has sufficient objective qualifications. The decision-making process involves "designing" a class with the correct overall composition of talents and interests, and weighs heavily towards applicants who are "interesting" and not just cookie-cutter checklists.

So if you are a really good violist from the Pacific NW, and Princeton decides they want 2 of them for the incoming class, and your application doesn't get dragged out of the pile until after they've already picked two, you are out of luck. If yours is the first they grab, you are set.

I'm convinced my daughter got in on the strength of her essay about goat-farming on a small remote island. And her viola skills.

thank you for your perspectives, along with the others who have had some experience on recent admissions. What a mess.

iris lilies
3-13-19, 6:29pm
My previous splurge there was a wool hat I bought my senior year, it's still going strong.

The main walkable shopping area by the University sure has gone upscale over the years. But there are still a few student-affordable gems tucked away here and there.

One of my closer acquantances/friends has one of those Important Olde Money families who have ancient land holdings in Virginia that date back centuries. Anyway. She went to Cornell for physics which was a radical change from Expectations of her female lineage who went Bryn Mawr or Radcliffe or which ever one of those seven sister colleges. Her brother went to Harvard fed from the New Hampshire prep school Phillips Whatever.

They seem, not especially successful by financial standards or societal standards, but they both have carved outlier lives in modest living circumstances.

It seems to me thst the Olde Money trappings present quite a burdon. Her family trust is something she has to fuss with on th regular.

Because I am aware of these Ivy League connections, and because I am getting older and less concerned about societal connections, these issues are interesting but no longer as fascinating as theywould have been to me 30 years ago.

More on this in another post.

Tammy
3-13-19, 9:19pm
Our 3 kids all have 4 year degrees. All 3 scored high on tests but decided on their own to go to the local community college for the first two years. They all hate debt.

Then all 3 finished their last years at the local private church affiliated college. Because it was there and they got scholarships and they could keep working while they finished,

All 3 of our kids are all about the practicalities, the substance, and totally unimpressed by externalities. I wonder where they got that from ?!? Ha

iris lilies
3-13-19, 9:51pm
This school is

2685

a typical turn of the century or post 19th century square box. it’s where I went to school. It is where my parents both went to school. It is where my uncle went to school.


My uncle went on to discover the age of the earth. He also went on to be the lead scientist responsible for removing lead from leaded gasoline.


Merit rises to the top. Mediocrity and merit can share the same square box and we will all fulfill our destinies. :)

jp1
3-13-19, 10:48pm
This thread has been fascinating to me. My high school was a decent inner city school (Zoegirl is East still a decent high school?). I graduated at about 10% in my class without especially trying. (I didn't have extra study aids or tutors but got a 1310 on my SAT without particularly trying, which apparently was pretty good.) My parents weren't concerned about where I went to college, only that I did go to college. And what that college would cost. When I got offered both a half tuition music scholarship and half tuition academic scholarship to a private university that was trying to improve their standing in the world my parents agreed that it was the right place for me. Almost 30 years later I feel like the decisions we made back then were good ones. I'm doing quite well and no one has cared about the details about my college education. I only knew a few people in high school that were obsessed with getting into the "right" school. They were all focused on specific career paths. Partner at McKinsey, or some particular other path like bae's daughter. It probably made sense for them to aim for a specific institution. The rest of us, seemingly not so much.

I've read plenty of articles in the last few years about how competitive the college admissions process is today. Part of me wonders if it's all just a lot of hype by universities that want to justify their existence. Surely a lot of the young folks today are like me. They need an education for the jobs they hope to obtain, but do they really need some fancy-pants elite education? It's possible that things have gotten a lot more competitive but have they really?

LDAHL
3-14-19, 6:44am
Merit rises to the top.

Well, it can improve the odds of rising to the top anyway.

bae
3-14-19, 2:46pm
Looking at some of the news stories on this:

Some of the parents dropped $500k on their scams/bribes. Just to get admission.

Imagine the good that could have been accomplished with that money! They could have got the kid a house, or helped start a business, or ....

When my daughter was contemplating An Expensive Place, which was going to cost us full-freight cash to pay for, since I didn't game the financial aid situation, I offered her instead the deal of "you could just have the cash (~$250k) up-front" if you want to start a business, or get a home here and do your agricultural/marine sciences work, or ..." She pondered seriously the pluses and minuses.

And so, soon, our planet will have another professor of Anglo Saxon, Norse, and Celtic Studies available for hire...

iris lilies
3-14-19, 7:01pm
Good God. Sort of makes Chelsea Clinton’s career look like something out of Horatio Alger.

The good news is they can probably afford a lot of therapy.

You are so nice to not snarkily say “ career.”

gimmethesimplelife
3-14-19, 9:08pm
This whole cheap and tawdry affair? I find A. Cheap and tawdry, and B. Lacking in good taste/good judgement. Though competition does tend to bring out the worst in people. Rob

Alan
3-14-19, 9:36pm
This has me thinking about some of the more popular political promises being made to folks in return for votes. If a college education is virtually guaranteed to everyone by being "free", are we creating a civil right that private schools may not violate, or would it simply be acceptable then for private schools to reserve their limited slots to the highest bidders?

flowerseverywhere
3-14-19, 10:33pm
Looking at some of the news stories on this:

Some of the parents dropped $500k on their scams/bribes. Just to get admission.

Imagine the good that could have been accomplished with that money! They could have got the kid a house, or helped start a business, or ....

When my daughter was contemplating An Expensive Place, which was going to cost us full-freight cash to pay for, since I didn't game the financial aid situation, I offered her instead the deal of "you could just have the cash (~$250k) up-front" if you want to start a business, or get a home here and do your agricultural/marine sciences work, or ..." She pondered seriously the pluses and minuses.

And so, soon, our planet will have another professor of Anglo Saxon, Norse, and Celtic Studies available for hire...

does she have any thoughts of returning to the island? My kids never looked back when they left home and pursued their own way. Both seem to be happy but live their lives their way.

Teacher Terry
3-14-19, 11:05pm
For many years New York had free tuition.

LDAHL
3-15-19, 12:19am
You are so nice to not snarkily say “ career.”

She can’t be held responsible for her upbringing.

jp1
3-15-19, 12:33am
This has me thinking about some of the more popular political promises being made to folks in return for votes. If a college education is virtually guaranteed to everyone by being "free", are we creating a civil right that private schools may not violate, or would it simply be acceptable then for private schools to reserve their limited slots to the highest bidders?

Let the schools do what they want. Imagine a world where a harvard degree elicits people to say ‘oh, their parents must’ve dropped a boatload of money to get them that degree.’

LDAHL
3-15-19, 12:41am
Let the schools do what they want. Imagine a world where a harvard degree elicits people to say ‘oh, their parents must’ve dropped a boatload of money to get them that degree.’

I think that is already the case in many quarters that the people most impressed by Ivy degrees are people with Ivy degrees.

bae
3-15-19, 1:45am
Let the schools do what they want. Imagine a world where a harvard degree elicits people to say ‘oh, their parents must’ve dropped a boatload of money to get them that degree.’

Which is sort of sad and odd, because some of the Ivy League schools have tremendously good financial aid programs, that for your middle-class kid essentially require no loans, and don't require your parents to dip into retirement assets or home equity. It can be the cheapest college solution available, if you get in.

bae
3-15-19, 1:48am
does she have any thoughts of returning to the island? My kids never looked back when they left home and pursued their own way. Both seem to be happy but live their lives their way.

Most kids here who go to college don't/can't come back. The jobs simply aren't here, and the housing prices are out of reach. The population demographics are also skewed towards the older side of the curve, making it difficult for young folks to socialize.

If she came back here and wanted to work with income derived from local jobs, she'd have to do archeology survey/reports for construction projects, and work lots of seasonal tourism-based gigs, or perhaps get a job at the K-12 school district if they somehow needed a classics professor.

She'll probably come back in the future when she is working on writing/research projects, if she can access the materials she needs from here.

ToomuchStuff
3-15-19, 9:56am
Which is sort of sad and odd, because some of the Ivy League schools have tremendously good financial aid programs, that for your middle-class kid essentially require no loans, and don't require your parents to dip into retirement assets or home equity. It can be the cheapest college solution available, if you get in.

I know Harvard does. My friend had a seven figure sum set for his kids education and had instilled in them the importance of school and work ethic (bought them a brand new vehicle of their choosing when turned 16 when they kept a 4.0), and they went out and got a full ride scholarship to Harvard medical. Went on to work for a group I mix up with the WHO.

catherine
3-15-19, 1:29pm
Which is sort of sad and odd, because some of the Ivy League schools have tremendously good financial aid programs, that for your middle-class kid essentially require no loans, and don't require your parents to dip into retirement assets or home equity. It can be the cheapest college solution available, if you get in.

Absolutely. I think Princeton has one of the top endowment funds, right? I'm sure a good chunk of that goes to scholarships and grants.

iris lilies
3-15-19, 5:15pm
What set of laws govern how college admissions are administered? Is it really the blackmail element that is hitting up against the law? I don’t quite get it. I know that if somebody tried to gate crash national garden club judging for instance, claiming they were judges, I don’t know that there is a law that covers that other than some sort of general law about impersonating someone for financial gain. Haha, not the aame, but I do wonder why college admisiion is regulated at all by the gubmnt.

I was shocked to see that Felicity Huffman, spouse to
william macy, played this stupid game.

The Hollywood people are ridiculous. The Macy’s/Hoffman are kind of edgy and independent film-ish but I can see that they’ve fallen for main stream values of “my kid above all others.”

LDAHL
3-16-19, 3:14pm
The Hollywood people are ridiculous. The Macy’s/Hoffman are kind of edgy and independent film-ish but I can see that they’ve fallen for main stream values of “my kid above all others.”

Just think of the frantic string-pulling we would see if they were still drafting kids. Like Donald’s bone spurs or the ceremonial outfit Ted Kennedy got into after they kicked him out of Harvard for cheating.

Simone
3-16-19, 7:31pm
What set of laws govern how college admissions are administered? Is it really the blackmail element that is hitting up against the law? I don’t quite get it. I know that if somebody tried to gate crash national garden club judging for instance, claiming they were judges, I don’t know that there is a law that covers that other than some sort of general law about impersonating someone for financial gain. Haha, not the aame, but I do wonder why college admisiion is regulated at all by the gubmnt.



I think the most serious crime they're accused of is conspiracy to defraud a US agency, namely the Dept. of Ed., which uses taxpayer dollars to support students/universities through, e.g., Pell grants, Titles III and IV.

flowerseverywhere
3-16-19, 7:35pm
I looked up Felicity, her not worth with Macy is reported to be 45 mil. She was paid almost $300,000 per episode of eight seasons of desperate housewives. She attended boarding school and has family money. Her ancestors were well educated and did things like found successful companies. I can’t imagine what goes on in these people’s minds.

Lori L is married to a successful designer and their net worth is reported to be $100 million. Can you imagine what good they could do with that kind of money.


But here is a funny story. I have a friend whose mother dropped out of tenth grade and got married. She was born when her mom was 16. After high school she worked in an office and got married. Although she has no formal post high school education, she is one of the most educated people I know. She has extensively read and studied Shakespeare for instance, very involved in politics and knows tons of American history, especially the revolutionary war and our founding fathers, and so on. She’s an avid reader is currently reading biographies of famous women like Curie and Clara Barton. Whereas I know some people with university degrees that are not well read or smart about much of anything. Their lives consist of decorating, watching TV, going out to lunch and playing Bunco. All fine for distractions but not the focus of expanding your knowledge.

I do feel bad for people who have worked extremely hard and made real sacrifices to attend these schools who might get a second doubtful glance. And kids who were on the bubble who were knocked out by these entitled rich people. Because really smart people deserve a good education and some of the excellent departments like physics, engineering, robotics, and so on have produced many modern geniuses. I live near Cape Canaveral and the rocket launches are a big deal here. They get extensive media coverage and I marvel at the current technology that is going into the reusable rockets. But I guess we all can’t be rocket scientists....

sweetana3
3-16-19, 9:13pm
Here is a list of charges: Note Federal mail and wire fraud is what got the parents apparently. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/college-admissions-scandal-list-operation-varsity-blues-every-charge-and-accusation-facing-parents-involved/