View Full Version : Electric Assist Bicycles
I've been following these for several years now. For a variety of reasons, particularly the ruggedness of the terrain where I live, and my concern over my slightly-damaged knees.
I finally took the plunge last week, and took delivery yesterday of my first hybrid vehicle, a Trek SuperCommuter +8S bicycle. It has the snazziest Bosch power-assist technology, nicely-integrated into the bicycle.
You still have to do work, the battery assist system merely provides boost to your input, with 4 levels ranging up to 300% increase. The battery has sufficient range for ~90 miles of riding if you don't leave it in Turbo power mode and ride straight up mountains constantly. In that use-case, which is mine, you get about 30 miles or so.
The assist system only assists up to 28mph, after that you are on your own. On very steep hills, it will not be going 28mph unless you have legs like Conan, but you can still manage a good pace.
It recharges in ~4 hours. The charger isn't terribly heavy, but is about half the size of the battery itself, so it takes up a little room in your day pack if your intent is to top up the battery at your destination.
The ride from town to the entrance to my community's road system, ~4 miles, takes me 13 minutes on this bicycle, up a mighty steep hill. It's 8 mins by car (low speed limits here). There's about 600 foot of elevation gain, most of which is the last mile or so.
On the flats, I can easily and happily pedal at the 28mph. I can't go much faster due to the gearing of the bicycle, which tops out at about 30mph. I've broken 50mph downhill, but that's cheating.
Using it with the power system off is possible, the bike weighs 52 pounds however, so it's a bit of a pig at that point, not too bad though.
This bicycle really takes the sting off older/damaged knees. It also removes a lot of the pain of the winds we get here, and flattens out the moderate hills so you don't even notice them. You still have to work, especially on the severe hill, but it's not an unreasonable amount of effort. Even going up the nastiest bits, my heart rate never exceeded 125bpm (for reference, when I'm doing heavy exercise for conditioning purposes I target 140-160bpm, my resting heart rate is 55, and I'm 56 and way too heavy)
I think this technology is a gamechanger for older or disabled or less-fit individuals, and for people who live in places where the terrain challenges bicycles.
I rode to my friend's house for lunch today, 20 mins to her door from mine. Takes me 17 minutes by car on the same route. Took me 28 minutes coming home, because of the mountain issue. I didn't even arrive all smelly/nasty from biking.
Go technology, and happy Earth Day.
https://trek.scene7.com/is/image/TrekBicycleProducts/SuperCommuterPlus8SUS_17297_A_Portrait?$responsive-pjpg$&wid=1920&hei=1440
Rugged looking tires which should make for a nice ride as well. Thanks for the evaluation of the features.
Rugged looking tires which should make for a nice ride as well. Thanks for the evaluation of the features.
They are sort of big-balloon-ish tires, which help a lot with our horrible roads here. Note that the bicycle has no suspension, it's not a modern mountain bike. But these tires soak up a goodly amount of the abuse. I would have lost road-bike thin-fast tires a couple of times today I think.
I have been curious about them, thank you for the informative report! Glad you can keep biking comfortably.
I have been curious about them, thank you for the informative report! Glad you can keep biking comfortably.
It's never seemed a reasonable option until now. With this, I can use it for my daily village errands without too much trouble, for probably 8-9 months of the year.
I'm not sure I'm saving any money over using my automobile, even discounting the cost of the bike, considering how much food I have to throw into myself to power it :-)
One safety observation - our roads here are narrow, with no shoulders, and biking always has looked quite dangerous with the auto traffic. This goes enough faster that it reduces the speed differential between you and the auto (speed limit is 35mph or less in most places here), and they seem to give you more road space as a result, instead of crowding you. It may also be that I look like a Sasquatch riding a bicycle and they don't want to total their car hitting me :-)
dado potato
4-21-19, 9:35pm
That Trek E-bike is a thing of beauty.
Using it for your daily commute, you will cut congestion, pollution and noise all at once.
Is it ill-advised in conditions of rain and fog?
Do you have concerns about diesel particles you might be inhaling?
In the Netherlands after hundreds of cyclists had been injured and killed, the government set aside serious funding for separate bike paths, not just "bike lanes" at the right side of lanes of vehicular traffic.
As the linked article goes into, different states have different policies on permitting and use of e-bikes. http://peopleforbikes.org/our-work/e-bikes
My husband rode pedicab as a career for about 5 years here in hot Arizona. He would ride over 12 hours a day on festival days, hauling up to 3 people and their luggage. He had an electric assist. It saved the day. He still worked his ass off.
ToomuchStuff
4-22-19, 8:59am
Ouch on the price. While fat tire bikes are popular for snow here, I would have looked at a different bike with the drill motor conversion, or (more likely here), one of those Chinese motors, different tires. (where I would have probably made it look like an antique motorcycle)
So are the fat tires so you don't ride on the roads? Speed doesn't really do much for mass problem. (bike verse car) Make sure to get a good helmet. (and lights, reflectors, reflective vest, etc)
Oh lordy, what a handsome ride!
Teacher Terry
4-22-19, 11:25am
Cool bike. People here drive like maniacs so I am afraid to ride a bike.
I envy European nations with dedicated bike paths.
Is it ill-advised in conditions of rain and fog?
We shall see, we shall see :-) That will definitely require wearing proper clothing, I'm curious how well it works on the wet road surfaces here.
Do you have concerns about diesel particles you might be inhaling?
Here, no - there's very low population density, and not much diesel-truck traffic anywhere. The air quality is usually superb, except during pollen season and wildfire season.
In the Netherlands after hundreds of cyclists had been injured and killed, the government set aside serious funding for separate bike paths, not just "bike lanes" at the right side of lanes of vehicular traffic.
The roads here are pretty dangerous, even without the cars. They are narrow, chip-sealed, there will be loose gravel on them now-and-then from the surface. There is no real shoulder on most of the roads. The roads themselves are often seriously crowned, so they aren't flat, especially near the outside edge of the lane - so it is dangerous to try to ride on the far side of the lane on the fog line.
It's not ideal.
Wow that is a monster bike nearly twice as heavy as my Trek 520 Touring Bike but I can see the point if you are Arthritic, stiff out of breath or biking as part of a job. You are going to have to be strong with good cartilage, something that wears with time in most people. I am trying to conserve mine! It sounds like an electric bike is a good choice.
Wow that is a monster bike nearly twice as heavy as my Trek 520 Touring Bike
A big chunk of the extra weight is the electric drive system (8.8 lbs) and the battery (5.7 lbs), and then it also has extra weight from the lights and rack it comes equipped with, and the overengineered brakes and tires. It is usable without any power assist, but it is a "chunky" bike.
but I can see the point if you are Arthritic, stiff out of breath or biking as part of a job. You are going to have to be strong with good cartilage, something that wears with time in most people. I am trying to conserve mine! It sounds like an electric bike is a good choice.
While I am still super strong, I suffered some knee injuries decades ago, and I am very very protective of my knees, so this makes it possible for me to deal with the hills here without damage, or without going to such a low low gearing that I'd be going below walking speed :-)
It's a loooong way down this mountain to the village, and now I can just hop on the bike and go into the village to Do Things, and get back without too much concern. I wouldn't have dared before, unless I had someone to give me a lift back up :-) (The main elevation increase of ~600 feet is over about a mile of distance on the main public road, about a 12% grade. The last elevation rise from the beginning of my neighborhood's road system is still brutal, because it is a silly steep grade, it's cruel even walking - it's another 6-700 feet of elevation, and most of that gain is over 1/3 of a mile distance, so that's about a 35% grade.)
That sounds like a perfect application for electric bikes and a great deal.
Here in the metro suburbs we have a very good dedicated walking and biking trail system that gets moderate use. I am starting to see electric bikes more often. I predict one day things will come to a head on any regulations or prohibitions. Already there is some animosity between walkers and cyclists. Walkers sprawl out with dogs on leashes and cyclists anxious to get somewhere or no where fast are inconsiderate. I've seen one broken bone accident between two cyclists. The worst is weekends when slick looking bunches of cyclists think they are in the Tour de France. Now, the electric bikes can out do them all. They are capable of unsafe travel speeds and their weight will increase impact in a collision. I think the current regulations generally allow pedal assist, but not fully electric, although the distinction can be insignificant. I'm not aware of any regulations for travel on streets and street bike lanes, but wonder about some sort of street legal type licensing. If their popularity continues I predict problems.
A great idea in some places and especially for people with physical limitations, but not for everyone or everyplace.
I think people concerned that electric-assist bikes will somehow present a huge safety danger because of "unsafe travel speeds" or "their weight" need to go and try one out. They aren't motorcycles or mo-peds. You have to exert effort to pedal them, they don't run on their own. The assist is limited to 20mph or 28mph depending on the specific features the bike has to comply with the law. There is a model regulatory framework available, and quite a few states have already adopted it.
I can go faster on my regular bicycle, on flat ground. And the extra 20+ pounds of the bicycle doesn't seem to be a huge collision consideration, compared to the size of my body, and the amount of stuff I might be carrying in panniers or backpacks. I see "regular" cyclists carrying lots of extra weight above that of the bicycle itself.
That said, I don't think people using their bicycles for transportation should be sharing paths with pedestrians, unless there are clear safe places for the pedestrians. Of course here, pedestrians have to walk on the nearly non-existent shoulder of the road and share their space with cars and trucks, as well as bicycles.
ToomuchStuff
4-30-19, 4:22pm
They aren't motorcycles or mo-peds. You have to exert effort to pedal them, they don't run on their own.
In my state they are considered mopeds. I believe this thread had a link in it showing different states rules.
In my state they are considered mopeds. I believe this thread had a link in it showing different states rules.
I think this is why states are moving towards the more rational model legislation. The performance characteristics of mopeds and these electric assist bicycles are quite different.
Interesting - mopeds are basically not sold in the USA anymore, there's one vendor, PGI Moto. Apparently regulations and more fuel efficient cars wiped out the market segment.
The products sold seem to be small motorcycles/scooters, with some vestigial pedals tacked on for startup. They are limited to 30mph and get 130mpg.
The "mopeds" the island moped rental agency offers, upon investigation, are scooters, and not mopeds. They also hire out these really irritating two-passenger 3-wheeled "mopeds".
I think people concerned that electric-assist bikes will somehow present a huge safety danger because of "unsafe travel speeds" or "their weight" need to go and try one out. They aren't motorcycles or mo-peds. You have to exert effort to pedal them, they don't run on their own. The assist is limited to 20mph or 28mph depending on the specific features the bike has to comply with the law. There is a model regulatory framework available, and quite a few states have already adopted it.
I can go faster on my regular bicycle, on flat ground. And the extra 20+ pounds of the bicycle doesn't seem to be a huge collision consideration, compared to the size of my body, and the amount of stuff I might be carrying in panniers or backpacks. I see "regular" cyclists carrying lots of extra weight above that of the bicycle itself.
That said, I don't think people using their bicycles for transportation should be sharing paths with pedestrians, unless there are clear safe places for the pedestrians. Of course here, pedestrians have to walk on the nearly non-existent shoulder of the road and share their space with cars and trucks, as well as bicycles.
If you can cruise at a sustained speed of 20 mph or more on flat ground for any significant distance with a regular bike, you have my respect.
Around here there are small problems with multiple use recreational areas. They even allow horses on the path I use routinely, though I don't see them too often. Skateboarders, some sport that looks like paddling on a fancy skateboard, joggers, etc. Get enough people and enough opportunities for conflict and something may give one day. That's life in the city, and were at least lucky here to have a great trail system that people can enjoy. I could see electric bikes as low fruit someday because of their bulk and speed, but they are still fairly uncommon.
If you can cruise at a sustained speed of 20 mph or more on flat ground for any significant distance with a regular bike, you have my respect.
To be fair, I climb stairs in about 80 pounds of firefighting gear, on-air, for 30 minutes a day, so my legs think the bicycle is a day off :-)
It might go without saying, but I have to add a gentle reminder to always wear a helmet and do your best to be visible, which in my book always means front and rear (flashing) lights in traffic. Especially if there is fog. Maybe singing to the choir, but I lost a friend in a car/bike accident. I couldn't ride on public roads for years afterwards.
Update:
1 - I still love this thing
2 - I have procured pannier bags and a bag for the rack, and now I can easily get 2-3 bags of groceries in town, and get them home up the climb to my house
3 - I use the bike instead of the car about 75% of the time
4 - I have lost weight, and improved my conditioning. I completely aced this semester's interior/structural firefighting agility/endurance/stress test, with record-low air consumption
5 - I can eat whatever I want without any diet concerns
6 - My social life has improved tremendously - when the local eligible population observes you out-and-about doing physical things, it attracts interest. I have 3 unsolicited dates this coming week.
7 - I procured an extra battery to reduce range anxiety and extend my range. This has allowed me to use the bike for mainland errands, without the fuss of ferry reservations/lines, or the cost of ferry tickets
I think this is the future, for some subset of transportation applications.
Also, because we only have one bike store on the island, and they are swamped in the summer season, I had them recommend to me some essential tools and equipment for bike repair and maintenance, as I had several old bikes I wanted to restore. I now have a mini bike shop set up, have rebuilt my old bikes, rebuilt two bikes for lady friends who now ride with me, and have made about $400 rebuilding/restoring a few other bikes for neighbors, paying for a good portion of the tools already.
Two thumbs up still.
Teacher Terry
5-27-19, 12:09am
Wow Bae everything sounds great.
Wow Bae everything sounds great.
This is pretty revolutionary stuff, and the technology is rapidly improving. There are some amazing products now at a much lower price point.
My Mom, who is ~80, is considering getting a tricycle version.
Also, I have a huge amount of solar electric production, all the power for this is "free".
Well, Bae, on a day when in Stratford for a play, I stopped at a bike store on the way to the library and checked out the electric bikes.The young male staff was so delighted to have a chance to promote all the features of the different makes of electric bikes. He was very good at his job and I told him so.
I was amazed at the size of some of the tires and got the info on the features of each of them as well. Bike stores have changed!
I do agree that this is the way of the future. Really considering the matter including the tricycle and where it would fit in my garage. How easily secure from theft can one make them?
Sooo, thanks for the update.
happystuff
5-27-19, 9:17am
Thank you so much for the update! Very inspirational.
Teacher Terry
5-27-19, 11:26am
Interesting that even in such a rural area you have a choice of eligible people. I am glad. Leaving my ex was the best thing I ever did. Back when I was riding a bike I only did it on trails. It makes me too nervous to ride with cars.
I love bikes. They make sense is so many ways.
How easily secure from theft can one make them?
Well, there's the usual bike-anti-theft stuff, but you also need to think about the high-value components, especially if they are easily removeable (like the battery). It's fairly low-theft around here, so I've settled on a cheezy cable lock and a motion-sensing alarm (which was ~$10 from Amazon) to make noise if someone fiddles with it. I have a higher-security lock for when I use the bike outside my immediate area, but it seems the better the lock, the heavier it is. After some searching, I went with a "Litelok", which seemed the lightest secure solution.
The battery was my concern. One model had a battery and motor cover and another was much more exposed. While certainly not a high-crime area, I would be hesitant about the security. Anything different seems to attract attention.
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