Mexico at least Algodones, still the same.....

[gimmethesimplelife]

I've just returned from just under a week in Los Algodones, Mexico. One thing I am glad to report is that I have noticed no hostilities to Americans - it's true that Los Algodones exists to cater to Americans and Canadians for dental and optical and now even veterinary - but I've been afraid that attitudes towards Americans may have changed due to Trump and his inability to respect Mexico for the safety valve that it is. I needn't have worried - things on the surface at least seem to remain the same. Rob

[Teacher Terry]

I would hope that most Mexicans realize most of us hate trump as much as they do.

[bae]

Fascinating - Canadians, with their world-class universal health care system, fleeing to Mexico to access medical care.

https://cusjc.ca/catalyst/project/medical-tourism-on-the-rise-why-more-canadians-are-seeking-medical-treatment-abroad-draft/

Why is Mexico's health care system so inexpensive and superior?

[bae]

... I've been afraid that attitudes towards Americans may have changed due to Trump and his inability to respect Mexico for the safety valve that it is.

I'm trying to imagine the world in which a strong part of the proud Mexican national identity is "we're the safety valve for America", and it's just not happening.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I'm trying to imagine the world in which a strong part of the proud Mexican national identity is "we're the safety valve for America", and it's just not happening.I don't know that such should be part of the Mexican identity, bae........it's just an unfortunate fact for many Americans. Thank overpriced health care and vastly unequal distribution of wealth in the US for that, and it's not going away any time soon that I can see.........Rob

[Teacher Terry]

Wealth distribution is worse in Mexico as far as I can tell.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Wealth distribution is worse in Mexico as far as I can tell.True that, TT, and no snark in this comment, ok? I never said otherwise - yes, there are definite issues with wealth distribution in Mexico. Granted and no denial on my part. My point is that were this the country we once lived in with a strong middle class that had a ladder to climb if upward movement were the goal - I would be much less likely to be in Los Algodones to begin with as what dental work cost in the US would not force me to flee - financially, morally, and ethically. Rob

[Teacher Terry]

It’s really sad what is happening to the middle class. My 84 year old neighbor used to live alone in her 800 sq ft home that they bought 54 years ago. Her adult kids all have jobs. About 4 years ago her adult son with a small child moved in because rent was too much. Then his 50 year old MI sister could no longer work and she moved in 2 years ago. She cares for the little girl while he works. Then a year ago the niece who has a full time job moves in for same reason. They all share one old car. Our bus system is not very good. They cook on the grill most nights year round. I have not seen one cell phone among them. A 2 bedroom apartment here starts at 1600. They are all frugal. Great neighbors and probably not capable of schooling to improve jobs.

[iris lilies]

Wealth distribution is worse in Mexico as far as I can tell.

And wealth distribution is even worse in Mexico when factoring in rich Americans who cross the border for health procedures that they find inexpensive, but the average Mexican cannot access those same procedures because it is way overpriced for the average Mexican.

are rich A,ericans driving ip the cost of, for instance, dental procedures, making them out of scope for residents of the country where they take place? The capitalist based market in Mexico sets the prices, and those who cannot afford them be damned.

[bae]

And wealth distribution is even worse in Mexico when factoring in rich Americans who cross the border for health procedures that they find inexpensive, but the average Mexican cannot access because it is way overpriced for the average Mexican.

But, but, "safety valve" for white privileged Americans and Canadians.

At least the average Mexican lives in a land that respects the rule of law, and they don't have to worry about being "disappeared"....

https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/01/15/mexico-other-disappeared#

[gimmethesimplelife]

And wealth distribution is even worse in Mexico when factoring in rich Americans who cross the border for health procedures that they find inexpensive, but the average Mexican cannot access those same procedures because it is way overpriced for the average Mexican.

are rich A,ericans driving ip the cost of, for instance, dental procedures, making them out of scope for residents of the country where they take place? The capitalist based market in Mexico sets the prices, and those who cannot afford them be damned.Very much not the case, IL, and I will calmly and logically tell you why. At the border where I go I save boatloads of money - a fact that can not be denied. However, I am also paying the gringo price - a price that for me is much lower and that I am grateful to pay.

My point? Were I Mexican and did I speak the language, and were I willing to take a short bus ride outside of town and away from the gringos, I'd pay even less. True story. Though I would have to leave the general area to do so, that much is true. Rob

[Teacher Terry]

I spent one day in Mexico when we were in San Diego. The poverty, people practically dragged you into their stores and restaurants. I was looking for a piece of stained glass with a Italian theme. They wouldn’t let me look and kept badgering me. We took a carriage ride that was quoted one price and when it was over wanted much more. We paid it. I will never go to Mexico again. It was worse than the poor Caribbean islands.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I spent one day in Mexico when we were in San Diego. The poverty, people practically dragged you into their stores and restaurants. I was looking for a piece of stained glass with a Italian theme. They wouldn’t let me look and kept badgering me. We took a carriage ride that was quoted one price and when it was over wanted much more. We paid it. I will never go to Mexico again. It was worse than the poor Caribbean islands.I have run into pushiness in Algodones, I won't deny that - but not to the level that you describe. My take is that Algodones is almost perfectly situated - a steady stream of what Mexicans consider very well to do people to keep the town up and running and subsidized. Enough people including even myself buying legit junk from the stall sellers - I bought two wallets this time, one as a gift to the roofer down the street who has been helpful to my Mom. Rob

[iris lilies]

Very much not the case, IL, and I will calmly and logically tell you why. At the border where I go I save boatloads of money - a fact that can not be denied. However, I am also paying the gringo price - a price that for me is much lower and that I am grateful to pay.

My point? Were I Mexican and did I speak the language, and were I willing to take a short bus ride outside of town and away from the gringos, I'd pay even less. True story. Though I would have to leave the general area to do so, that much is true. Rob

Ah. Calm and logical discussion is always good. So if the native Mexicans have cheaper options that is good.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Ah. Calm and logical discussion is always good. So if the native Mexicans have cheaper options that is good.IL, this may give you an idea of the prices Mexicans themselves face.....I was waiting this past weekend in Los Algodones for my crowns to come back from the lab on Monday. I had two days to hang around town and I took long walks beyond the dental tourism zone to get a feel for the town (though I totally understand this is still the border and not real Mexico).

Getting to the point, I ran across an office offering medical consultations for $50 - I did a double take and it took me a few seconds to realize that this price was in Mexican Pesos, amounting to less than USD $3 at current exchange rates. (Mexico uses the dollar sign too for prices in pesos and right at the border, this can be confusing sometimes). At any rate, I looked in the clinic as I was curious....clean, modern, no different looking from a similar US clinic - just a much more humane price. The clientele was 1/2 Caucasian and 1/2 Hispanic to give you an idea. Without insurance I'd have no problems going there whatsoever - but this is much more the Mexican price for such and not the gringo price, and this price is available without even having to leave town. Just to give you an idea. Rob

[sweetana3]

I am more interested in the quality of the service and educational level of the doctor and any other medical professionals in the office than the look of the place. The doctor could be an unqualified quack.

Bernie Madoff had expensive offices, lots of clients, and was a total crook.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I am more interested in the quality of the service and educational level of the doctor and any other medical professionals in the office than the look of the place. The doctor could be an unqualified quack.

Bernie Madoff had expensive offices, lots of clients, and was a total crook.I have had really really really great experiences with dental, optical, and health care in Mexico over the years but here's one tip as to why I've good experiences - I did not go in off the street without recommendations from others. Given that I live in a border state, it's not hard to get recommendations from other people fleeing the US to save money. Furthermore, given that I live in the 85006 (point being it's a very Hispanic area) and that I am on good terms with the neighborhood, I can get even better recommendations that way. That all said...…

I would (basically) trust the above mentioned clinic for all but the most intense medical issues had I no other realistic choice. Reason? Can anyone here see the reason from my post above? Hint: The racial distribution of the clientele. It's not the fact that 1/2 the clientele was Caucasian, either, which I understand would make many Americans more comfortable. It's because I know that money in Mexico for the average person is even more precious and dear than it is becoming for many of us in the US.....and if struggling Mexicans trust the clinic with their few and hard earned pesos, I trust it too to some degree. This life lesson here? I attribute this to living in the 85006 (to be fair, living in any similar area would have the same effect upon me)…….you learn to brutally comparison shop prices on both sides of the border and you quickly realize that Mexican quality is often not the slightest bit sub par, contrary to many American's beliefs. This knowledge can be economic gold. I have had some luck in life when you get right down to it.....Rob

[sweetana3]

Tt, I think your experience was similar to that faced in many "tourist trap" towns all over the world. They are trying to get the dollars quickly from tourists who will only pass thru quickly.

It was not the same in Oaxaca since it requires a lot of effort to get there and people are not stopping for a moment in time but there for a vacation. We also did not find this in Puebla or Mexico City. But I would expect this treatment to be found in border cities and in cruise ports.

[Teacher Terry]

Occasionally some of the cruise ports were annoying but nothing to this level. I just remembered Cozumel was a cruise port twice and very nice. Loved seeing the Mayan ruins. Each time we were on a different side of the city so saw different things.