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LDAHL
7-9-19, 10:59am
Outside the sacred precincts of baseball, I don’t follow sports much. Especially soccer, which always seemed kind of metric system foreign, kids-with-money to me. So why are we hearing so abnormally much about the women’s World Cup this year?

From what I understand the American team with superior funding beat a lot of less well heeled teams. Sort of like the Yankees? I don’t like the sound of that.

I’m told they’re suing to get equal compensation to male players. I think they should get the same share of the revenues they generate that the men do. Is that not the case? They certainty seem capable of equal boorishness.

Or are they some kind of political symbol? The whole not going to the White House thing seems a bit cliche at this point, but ok.

razz
7-9-19, 12:18pm
To me, the Women's World Cup this year generated world-wide attention. Previously, it seemed to be a male-dominated sport with teams from South America, Portugal and Spain dominating the interest. We had the local diaspora flying the flags of their homeland when the games were played. Fun to see this happen and know who each was hoping their team would win.

Kind of good to see the interest in soccer expanding to all individuals. We have a lot of kids playing soccer both indoor and outdoors so youth interest is great around southern Ontario. So many organized sports have become too expensive for families to pay the fees for participation and equipment. Soccer is still affordable for people around the world.

bae
7-9-19, 1:38pm
If the sport doesn't involved edged weapons, I don't follow it.

razz
7-9-19, 1:41pm
If the sport doesn't involved edged weapons, I don't follow it.

Just wondering where hockey sticks and skates fit in?:devil: What about jousting events?

oldhat
7-9-19, 2:03pm
It's certainly true that sexism pervaded the coverage--or lack thereof--of the women's World Cup. As I tried to follow the games over the past couple of weeks, I was often struck by how little attention this once-in-four-years event got from the major media outlets, compared with routine stories covering the most trivial aspects of men's sports.

On the other hand, I must say I've been disappointed in the often arrogant, preening posturing of the US team. I'm sure the feminist response would be that male athletes often act worse. This is a variation on the perennial argument that advancing women's rights consists of allowing them to be just as big a bunch of jerks as the men, which I've never found terribly persuasive.

LDAHL
7-9-19, 2:45pm
If the sport doesn't involved edged weapons, I don't follow it.

So bullfighting then?

jp1
7-9-19, 4:47pm
I’m told they’re suing to get equal compensation to male players. I think they should get the same share of the revenues they generate that the men do. Is that not the case? They certainty seem capable of equal boorishness.



Currently they are paid a fraction of what the male US team is paid. Considering that their recent Worlds Cup winning match generated the highest number of US households watching a soccer match ever they should certainly be paid as much as the men or perhaps more. Especially considering that the US men's team didn't even qualify for the world cup this year.

jp1
7-9-19, 4:51pm
On the other hand, I must say I've been disappointed in the often arrogant, preening posturing of the US team. I'm sure the feminist response would be that male athletes often act worse. This is a variation on the perennial argument that advancing women's rights consists of allowing them to be just as big a bunch of jerks as the men, which I've never found terribly persuasive.

But until we start calling men out for that behavior it's really not fair to call out women for it. Imagine what the press would have said if justice Rapey McBeer had been a woman and threw a tantrum like he did at the senate hearing. It would have been something like "Rapey McBeer appeared excessively emotional when being grilled by the senate, calling into question whether she has the temperament to be an effective judge." But because he's a dude his response was called "forceful" and other generally positive words and phrases.

oldhat
7-9-19, 6:45pm
But until we start calling men out for that behavior it's really not fair to call out women for it. Imagine what the press would have said if justice Rapey McBeer had been a woman and threw a tantrum like he did at the senate hearing. It would have been something like "Rapey McBeer appeared excessively emotional when being grilled by the senate, calling into question whether she has the temperament to be an effective judge." But because he's a dude his response was called "forceful" and other generally positive words and phrases.

Lots of people, including me in this very forum, had exactly that response--that is, that his sputtering anger showed the opposite of what most people would consider a judicial temperament. The only people describing his behavior in positive terms were Fox News commentators.

No, I just thought it would have been nice if the reaction of the women to winning had been modesty and humbleness, precisely the same behavior I admire in male athletes (or anyone, for that matter).

razz
7-9-19, 6:53pm
No, I just thought it would have been nice if the reaction of the women to winning had been modesty and humbleness, precisely the same behavior I admire in male athletes (or anyone, for that matter).

The noisy actors get the attention to meet the media's need for attracting the masses to see the ads that pay for it all.

Alan
7-9-19, 7:00pm
Currently they are paid a fraction of what the male US team is paid. Considering that their recent Worlds Cup winning match generated the highest number of US households watching a soccer match ever they should certainly be paid as much as the men or perhaps more. Especially considering that the US men's team didn't even qualify for the world cup this year.
Aren't both the male and female teams paid according to the collective bargaining agreements their unions negotiate with the league? I believe the male team members are paid mostly based upon bonuses based on performance where female team members are mostly paid base salaries, regardless of performance. Perhaps they should talk to their union.

From what I've read, the revenue pool for the women's and men's teams is also different with sponsorships generating disparate revenue streams. The Washington Post did a pretty good breakdown (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/07/08/are-us-womens-soccer-players-really-earning-less-than-men/?utm_term=.ca1f61f31a00) of the differences in how compensation is awarded in the two different contract environments, along with examples of Democratic Presidential candidates tweets aimed at politicizing differences without discussing specifics. I'm guessing you follow Elizabeth Warren's Twitter account?

jp1
7-9-19, 9:12pm
It will be interesting to see what happens during the next women's soccer contract negotiations. From your link it sounds like the women aren't really happy with what was negotiated for them in 2017. Presumably they are in a pretty strong place right now to get their contract improved somewhat.

jp1
7-9-19, 9:23pm
Lots of people, including me in this very forum, had exactly that response--that is, that his sputtering anger showed the opposite of what most people would consider a judicial temperament. The only people describing his behavior in positive terms were Fox News commentators.


While you and I were certainly making that comment here, major news organizations were not. Looking at NY Times and CNN articles that were written at the time the only thing I can find where either offers up an opinion of the man is the following from the Times article: "A few hours later, Judge Kavanaugh delivered a blistering, scorched-earth defense. " That's hardly "he's too emotional and may lack the temperament to be an impartial justice." or anything even vaguely close to it.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/27/politics/brett-kavanaugh-hearing/index.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/27/us/politics/brett-kavanaugh-confirmation-hearings.html

oldhat
7-9-19, 9:50pm
While you and I were certainly making that comment here, major news organizations were not. Looking at NY Times and CNN articles that were written at the time the only thing I can find where either offers up an opinion of the man is the following from the Times article: "A few hours later, Judge Kavanaugh delivered a blistering, scorched-earth defense. " That's hardly "he's too emotional and may lack the temperament to be an impartial justice." or anything even vaguely close to it.

I think those are news reports. Plenty of commentators pointed out that he looked like he was going to pop a vein.

jp1
7-9-19, 10:19pm
I think those are news reports. Plenty of commentators pointed out that he looked like he was going to pop a vein.

You're probably right. But it took a man seriously looking like he was going to pop a vein to get to that point that he was called out for it. If Ford, during the same hearing, had gotten even remotely emotional she would have been called out for it by a wide swath of the political commentariat. Men rarely get called out for being aggressive but women in the public eye get called shrill or emotional or pushy all the time.

iris lilies
7-9-19, 10:28pm
You're probably right. But it took a man seriously looking like he was going to pop a vein to get to that point that he was called out for it. If Ford, during the same hearing, had gotten even remotely emotional she would have been called out for it by a wide swath of the political commentariat. Men rarely get called out for being aggressive but women in the public eye get called shrill or emotional or pushy all the time.
I listened to Ford give testimony on the radio. I Was surprised to hear her valley girl affectation and I found it annoying. I don’t know why women talk like that.