View Full Version : Bicycling....
I just got back from 3 weeks in the UK, in London and Cambridge.
I bicycled everywhere. I did not bother with a car.
In particular, I rented a Brompton folding bicycle. It folds in thirds, and fits in the overhead on most buses and trains and subways in the UK, and presumably Europe. It also fits in the overhead of larger airplanes, though not small regional jets.
https://us.brompton.com/
I stopped by the manufacturer in London - it's all old guys brazing up bicycles like they did 100 years ago.
Anyways, this made the UK very very fun and explorable. I spent several weeks in Cambridge, and was easily able to head to St. Ives and Ely from there. Riding in the city was faster than Uber/cabs, or driving myself, and vastly better than walking.
I liked the insane stupid clown bike so much that I brought one home with me. It has been doing fine here on my much much hill-ridden island, though I have ordered a new crank sprocket with a -12% gearing for our mountain. I managed to complete (in last place) our weekly community bike ride, which is not an easy course, on the clown bike.
I'm 56 with bad knees and ankles.
Anyways, the ability to have a bike small and light enough you can just carry it into a coffee shop, museum, or train is sort of revolutionary. I used it for a day in Seattle upon my return, and except for some of the insane Seattle hills, it was very freeing.
I have now taken several trips in my small 16-foot Boston Whaler with the Brompton tucked inside a small Ikea bag, to visit nearby islands and the mainland, and it is kind of life-changing for my particular circumstances.
That is so cool! Does it ride as well as a regular bike? I'm assuming it does, but with the smaller wheel circumference, I'm curious as to how. I have a bike here, but it's a traditional one, and it takes up a lot of precious shed space to store--it feels like a foldable bike could sit unobtrusively in my mudroom.
iris lilies
8-1-19, 7:42am
That was a great adventure. The folding bike—interesting.
Gosh, I kinda wanna come visit for a few weeks and island hop with you.:cool:
I read a book years and years ago about a British (?) woman who brought a foldable or some other kind of little portable bike to the USA with the plan of riding across the country. She succeeded, though as I recall, she did hitch a ride across some particularly difficult mountain range. Your new bike sounds like an excellent new addition--I'm a little envious.
dado potato
8-1-19, 10:46am
Awesome! Reminds me that back in the 1980s I was lent a bicycle in the Netherlands, and I visited the Openluchtmuseum and other points of interest in the Arnhem vicinity.
Sounds wonderful! It is striking me so much more that there is so much wonderful stuff happening. The old as this foldable bike and the new items being developed. My DGS was telling me about his "Launch Pad" in which he can create music with an item like an Ipad and loop the music building amazing sounds still using the old notes with its sharps and flats. These are the joys of life that we lose sight of, don't acknowledge or even look for when we watch daily news which focuses on drama and tragedy. There is an enormouse amount of good going on daily.
I'd like to bike where I live, but I'm frankly terrified. Too much traffic, and roads that were in no way designed to accommodate both cars and bikes.
I don't think this is an idle fear, either. A friend who works in healthcare says he was speaking to an ER doc recently who stopped cycling because of all the people the paramedics brought in whom they'd scraped off the pavement.
A co-worker has one of those folding bikes that he rides into the office from the train station. He loves it.
That is way cool! Good for you!
Teacher Terry
8-1-19, 12:29pm
OH, when I rode bikes I only did it on trails. People in cars don’t pay attention and I found it to scary to ride on roads. Sounds like a great trip Bae!
I would love to see an extensive system of exclusive bike/pedestrian trails built for the safety and convenience of everyone.
I would love to see an extensive system of exclusive bike/pedestrian trails built for the safety and convenience of everyone.
I am not sure bicycles and pedestrians are compatible on the *same* trails, unless there is some sort of division between the two uses. Bicycles go rather fast, and are pretty quiet, and pedestrians tend to be oblivious about dangers coming up on them from behind.
I am not sure bicycles and pedestrians are compatible on the *same* trails, unless there is some sort of division between the two uses. Bicycles go rather fast, and are pretty quiet, and pedestrians tend to be oblivious about dangers coming up on them from behind.
I thought of that; they should be wide enough to accommodate both--maybe with a narrow greenspace in between. Building two separate trails would probably be thought cost-prohibitive.
ETA: I've walked on the Burke-Gilman trail, which is dual-use. I kept well to the side of the trail, and didn't have any close calls.
I thought of that; they should be wide enough to accommodate both--maybe with a narrow greenspace in between. Building two separate trails would probably be thought cost-prohibitive.
ETA: I've walked on the Burke-Gilman trail, which is dual-use. I kept well to the side of the trail, and didn't have any close calls.
Some of the bike trails I encountered in the UK recently used painted markings, or even different paving materials, to mark pedestrian and bicycle "lanes" on the same trail, which worked OK, except the pedestrians often seemed oblivious.
On our former rail trails, we hike with my dog. Often the bikers and hikers meet so frequently, we stop and visit if the bugs are not a problem. We also stop and pick up the brush clearing the trail for the bikers. If I see or get a warning bell from a biker, I simply step aside until the way is clear again. It is wide enough for two people walking abreast and no more.
Lately, I have noticed that the most recent bikers are racing just as they do when driving a car. A trail is not the right place for that.
I liked the warning I got from one biker who called as he passed us, "another biker coming" alerting me to hold to one side a bit longer.
Teacher Terry
8-1-19, 2:57pm
The trails in Wisconsin were wide enough to accommodate walkers and bikers.
Good for you. When you think of all the resources needed to deal with cars, bicycles are so freeing.
The trails in Wisconsin were wide enough to accommodate walkers and bikers.
There are many recreational trails around here (some of which can be used as an alternative to city streets); most of them are combined pedestrian/bicycle trails. My experience is that while there are some aggressive cyclists (it's a nice paved trail but it's not the Nurburgring), the biggest problems are 1) geese and their slippery poop; and people, many of whom seem to have a pathological inability to read road markings and international pictograms of humans and bicycles. These generally are the same people who do not understand the general rule of "keep right" and are very likely to drift left or turn toward you as you say, "On your left!" There's a number of times I've almost had to lay down my bike to avoid a gaggle of people who seemingly have no clue they need to share this road and that bikes need some time and space to slow down. "Wide enough" is half the battle.
bae, did you get the electric Brompton or the completely-human-powered bike?
bae, did you get the electric Brompton or the completely-human-powered bike?
I went with the pure-human Brompton. The electric one is nice, but it is heavier, and you have to deal with the battery bag after you fold it up, and I thought this reduced its utility as a multi-modal transportation tool - hoisting it into an overhead bin would be a bit trickier.
I already have a great Trek pedal-assist electric bike, but it is of course not foldable and as portable.
Cute as the Brompton electric is, I think if I were to get a folding electric bike, I'd get the Tern Vektron S10, because it uses the same Bosch motor and battery system as my Trek, so I'd be able to interchange the batteries and chargers. The Tern isn't quite as cute as the Brompton, but it does go faster, and have disc brakes.
On "aggressive" or "fast" cyclists vs. pedestrians on trails.
There's a difference between a bicyclist out for a pleasant day's sight-seeing, moseying along at 8-10 mph, looking at birds, smelling the flowers, and a bicyclist who is bicycling to get from Point A to Point B. When I am in the commute-mode, I'll be going 15-25mph. This speed isn't really compatible with trails that have pedestrians who aren't paying attention bumbling along.
On "aggressive" or "fast" cyclists vs. pedestrians on trails.
There's a difference between a bicyclist out for a pleasant day's sight-seeing, moseying along at 8-10 mph, looking at birds, smelling the flowers, and a bicyclist who is bicycling to get from Point A to Point B. When I am in the commute-mode, I'll be going 15-25mph. This speed isn't really compatible with trails that have pedestrians who aren't paying attention bumbling along.
I ask this question respectfully. I wonder what the goal of the trails really is? Is it for enjoying nature, hiking with family including strollers or for commuter bikers? How can the two worlds - relaxation and enjoyment biking and hiking vs the commuter - be reconciled?
Teacher Terry
8-2-19, 5:05pm
The trails I used were in northern Wisconsin and for recreation. One was next to a river. They weren’t commuting trails.
I wonder what the goal of the trails really is?
I think that is a big issue - there are clearly different sorts of trails you'd want to construct to cover the "recreation/nature" use, and the "bicycles as efficient transportation" uses. Using the same trail for both purposes seems problematic - the commuter-trails presumably want to be efficiently-connected to destinations, for instance.
Using the same trail for both purposes seems problematic - the commuter-trails presumably want to be efficiently-connected to destinations, for instance.
The trails I referred to in my post generally are recreational in nature. There are several "trunk lines", if you will, which are purpose-built as connectors or are converted abandoned railroad right of way. Pedestrian traffic is permitted on those, too, but the combination of pedestrians, recreational cyclists, and commuters seems better -- the pedestrians are not on that path to dawdle and enjoy the sights, and the faster and slower bicyclists can sort out speed differences as car drivers do.
But so many roads here are poorly set up for bicycle use. Despite their being considered vehicles, bicycles almost always take the hindmost relative to cars and trucks unless there is at the very least a painted stripe (plastic bollards or such on the road help more). Many roads are one or two lanes in either direction and the shoulder very often is where bicyclists end up -- a shoulder with lots of debris and, too often, broken pavement. So cyclists go after the paths that expose them (and their bikes) to less potential damage. Not a happy combination. And this in a region largely renowned for the quality of its bike transportation.
On "aggressive" or "fast" cyclists vs. pedestrians on trails.
There's a difference between a bicyclist out for a pleasant day's sight-seeing, moseying along at 8-10 mph, looking at birds, smelling the flowers, and a bicyclist who is bicycling to get from Point A to Point B. When I am in the commute-mode, I'll be going 15-25mph. This speed isn't really compatible with trails that have pedestrians who aren't paying attention bumbling along.
Our dedicated bike/walking trails here have plenty of use from bike racers, electric bikes which I see going really fast, and recreational walkers and bikes. It's not a good situation. I avoid weekends, but early mornings and off-seasons are very nice. As far as compatibility goes, it's probably subjective.
Congratulations Bae on what sounds like a great ride in the United Kingdom on a Brompton, one of the best folding bicycles. I rode a folding bike in Philadelphia during a prolonged transit strike and managed well. Philadelphia now has a system of rental bike stations which allow the rider to pick up and leave the bike at the tart and end of their rides. That's a good option for getting around as well.
happystuff
10-21-19, 7:58am
Had a car to the mechanics last week and on the way passed someone riding up the hill on what looked to be an electric bike. As it turns out, it was the wife of my mechanic and I asked her about the bike. It was a Pedego electric bike and I really liked it. Went home and looked it up on the internet... Wow! I have expensive taste! LOL.
happystuff
9-27-22, 9:20am
Reviving this thread as a co-worked took both our old bikes a couple of weeks ago to see if they could be repaired. Last week I got both of them back! He said they were not in as bad a shape as I thought and they are now both road worthy. I've ridden a couple of times and really enjoy it. I do, however, find myself more cautious now than when I was younger - visions of falling and breaking something at my age. LOL
dado potato
9-27-22, 11:02am
Like OH and TT, I feel that too many cyclists are injured and killed by vehicles.
The Netherlands went through a period in the 1960s when way too many cyclists were being killed. In 1971 an activist organization, Stop de Kindermoord, gained momentum. Government responded by building separate lanes where bicycles were protected.
At present, about 1/4 of the entire road network in the Netherlands includes dedicated bicycle lanes. The standard width of the bike lane is 5.5 feet.
As a tourist on a borrowed bicycle, I was quite happy to ride on the wide smooth bicycle lane with a barrier between the bicycles and the motor vehicles. When I came to a busy highway crossing on my way to the Netherlands Open Air Museum in Arnhem, there was an automatic traffic light, and a short wait for the cyclist's light to turn green.
littlebittybobby
9-28-22, 1:19pm
Okay----The purpose of bikes and the purpose of hills, is to increase your stamina. There is no sense in buying one a those "EBikes", thinking it will save you the trouble of having to exert yourself. See? I believe those EBikes should be outlawed, confiscated, the battery recycled, and the rest melted down as scrap metal. Yup. Anyone caught riding an EBike should be jailed with the dope peddlers and child molesters. Hope that helps you some. Thankk Mee.
I believe those EBikes should be outlawed, confiscated, the battery recycled, and the rest melted down as scrap metal. Yup. Anyone caught riding an EBike should be jailed with the dope peddlers and child molesters. Hope that helps you some.
I wonder if, in modern times of high anxiety and a polarized views of issues, if bike trail rage will will become a new term in line with road rage.
iris lilies
9-30-22, 2:02am
I wonder if, in modern times of high anxiety and a polarized views of issues, if bike trail rage will will become a new term in line with road rage.
For several years I walked to work and believe me I had rage at the bicyclists who snuck up behind me and passed me. If I decided to step in to the path we would’ve had a collision. Only one time did a bicyclist do what he was supposed to do and that was ring his bell to signal to me he was behind me.
If I had been injured in such an incident I would’ve sued his little bicycling butt. So yeah, I have no love for bicyclists on pedestrian used paths.
Would give way to a bell ringing bike on a trail but not on a sidewalk. We have dumb bike and electric scooter riders on the city sidewalks. I stand my ground. The scooters even have a large sign "Do not ride on sidewalks." printed right on the scooter. Sidewalk rage?
If I had been injured in such an incident I would’ve sued his little bicycling butt. So yeah, I have no love for bicyclists on pedestrian used paths.
I suspect the additional traffic from faster and heavier bikes will eventually lead to accidents with injury, lawsuits and or other sorts of accidents on streets, and things will come to a head. "Pedestrian use" trails here are technically multiuse and there is not one group having privilege over another. Here, cyclists generally announce themselves before passing, but I agree even as a cyclist that there are some who think they are in the tour de France or something and are a hazard. There are as much a risk to me as to they are to walkers. I believe the solution is to have safe bike lanes on city streets and direct bike traffic away from "pedestrian trails". At least here in the big city that is slowly happening.
There are also plenty of sidewalks for walkers who don't want to share a "bike use path".
frugal-one
9-30-22, 8:25am
Here they are called recreational trails. I, personally, prefer them because they are out in nature and not on hard, hot concrete. It is ridiculous the number of bike lanes we have based on usage. The bike lanes are so wide it could easily be used for another lane of traffic.
Here they are called recreational trails. I, personally, prefer them because they are out in nature and not on hard, hot concrete. It is ridiculous the number of bike lanes we have based on usage. The bike lanes are so wide it could easily be used for another lane of traffic.
In the city where they have offered rebates for eBike purchases the initiative is part of a clean air initiative to reduce car traffic and encourage bike traffic. As someone who has used bikes as a secondary transportation mode for decades, it's a mystery to me why so many people drive to places that are easy bike rides or even walking. So, I'm not so sure those bike lanes are a misuse of resources from an environmental standpoint, but our car culture is endemic and people are lazy.
Without making a study of it, I would be somewhat certain that there are major cities in Europe that have adapted to routine commuting by cycling with the use of bike lanes and trails. It's good for the environment and also for people's health.
littlebittybobby
10-1-22, 12:10am
Okay---There are bicyclists who are incompetent, because they don't "Ride Right". Those types ride on the sidewalks and other pedestrian byways; they ride on the wrong side of the road, when they ride on the roadway; they don't wear helmets, and they don't have lighting for night riding, and they break all the traffic laws that they are legally obligated to follow. The stereotype is having a stolen or yard sale department store bike with a rusty chain. If it is a road bike, they will turn the drop bars upright. These people are derelects and retards and scum. Or, they are teens with faux BMX bikes, who cross the roadway in traffic, and hop curbs and ride through parking lots putting everyone at-risk for an accident. The worst cyclists of all tend to be minorities. It may not be P.C./ to say so, but it is the truth. But yeah---putting electric MOTOR powered two-wheeled vehicles on paths intended for pedestrian and human-powered cycles is a huge mistake. All there is to it. I don't want them there, and yeah---if I see one unattended, I will intentionally deflate the tires, in an act of defiance. I was in that big box disaster I call "Worst Buy", and they had some ebikes for sale, and I hefted a couple of them and they were as heavy as a small CC motorcycle! In other news, I was in a pawn shop lately, and rescued a Lemond aluminum road bike, and a Schwinn Voyager from the 80's. Both neeed work, but when I'm bored this winter, instead of drive-n-eat-n-sit-n-watch, I'll get them rehabbed & put them up for sale, since a) I have enough bikes sand: B)they are a bit undersized, for littlebittymee. But, yeah---I just had to rescue them. Hope that helps you some. See my new shirt.4860
frugal-one
10-1-22, 2:41am
In the city where they have offered rebates for eBike purchases the initiative is part of a clean air initiative to reduce car traffic and encourage bike traffic. As someone who has used bikes as a secondary transportation mode for decades, it's a mystery to me why so many people drive to places that are easy bike rides or even walking. So, I'm not so sure those bike lanes are a misuse of resources from an environmental standpoint, but our car culture is endemic and people are lazy.
Without making a study of it, I would be somewhat certain that there are major cities in Europe that have adapted to routine commuting by cycling with the use of bike lanes and trails. It's good for the environment and also for people's health.
Based on the minimal usage here, they are a waste of resources in that another lane could be used to reduce congestion. IMO not enough people utilize the bike lane to make them relevant.
I’ve been seeing a lot of of stupid and dangerous behavior from cyclists. Part of my commute there is a wide asphalt paved trail parallel to the road. It’s used by cyclists and pedestrians. There are no signs prohibiting bike use. The problem are the bicyclists who decide to ride in the middle of the traffic lane where the vehicle speed limit is 45-50 mph. It’s also hilly. I’ve come over a hill and had to slam on the brakes due to a cyclist in the middle of the road. There’s no room to pass them as they’re smack dab in the middle. Laying on the horn does nothing. I’ve almost been rear ended by other cars when I’ve had to slow to a crawl because of the idiot bicyclist. This happens way to often.
Based on the minimal usage here, they are a waste of resources in that another lane could be used to reduce congestion. IMO not enough people utilize the bike lane to make them relevant.
Perhaps there are regional differences in bike lane use. It does bring up the question of how much is minimal and what justifies their use. My home town has bike lanes that don't get much use and it's been an issue, but around here they are popular. One thing, not having safe bike lanes and trails is a pretty big detriment to cycle commuting or recreational use in general. I say build it and they will come. A program I saw on PBS said that having bike access within a mile of a home can increase it's property value. That's PBS, but there is probably something to it.
If bike lanes cause undue congestion of auto traffic I'd say there are engineering design or other problems.
I’ve been seeing a lot of of stupid and dangerous behavior from cyclists. Part of my commute there is a wide asphalt paved trail parallel to the road. It’s used by cyclists and pedestrians. There are no signs prohibiting bike use. The problem are the bicyclists who decide to ride in the middle of the traffic lane where the vehicle speed limit is 45-50 mph. It’s also hilly. I’ve come over a hill and had to slam on the brakes due to a cyclist in the middle of the road. There’s no room to pass them as they’re smack dab in the middle. Laying on the horn does nothing. I’ve almost been rear ended by other cars when I’ve had to slow to a crawl because of the idiot bicyclist. This happens way to often.
There are bad cyclists and bad car drivers. I'm sorry you've had an anxiety problem and your commute has been delayed. I don't know of a solution, other than to prohibit cycling on those roads.
If it's a big safety problem maybe a local planning authority or law enforcement could help. It's places like that that inspire road rage and cease accidents.
If a car driver came up behind me while I was cycling and a drive layed on a horn, there would be a possibilities of major surprise or scare and loss of control. It's not a safe practice regardless of who is right or wrong and borders on road rage, IMHO.
frugal-one
10-1-22, 10:29am
Perhaps there are regional differences in bike lane use. It does bring up the question of how much is minimal and what justifies their use. My home town has bike lanes that don't get much use and it's been an issue, but around here they are popular. One thing, not having safe bike lanes and trails is a pretty big detriment to cycle commuting or recreational use in general. I say build it and they will come. A program I saw on PBS said that having bike access within a mile of a home can increase it's property value. That's PBS, but there is probably something to it.
If bike lanes cause undue congestion of auto traffic I'd say there are engineering design or other problems.
Nope. It is built and a waste of resources. Best use and cost effectiveness is to eliminate the unused bike lanes and devote to vehicular use…. in effect, correct the mistake.
Nope. It is built and a waste of resources. Best use and cost effectiveness is to eliminate the unused bike lanes and devote to vehicular use…. in effect, correct the mistake.
Perhaps the real problem is vehicle use, in light of climate change, and if people are serious about helping.
I do grant there are people who don't buy into human caused climate change and that cars are not part of the problem anyway.
Mister Money Moustache had a good article, "Curbing Your Clown Like Car Habit"
https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/04/22/curing-your-clown-like-car-habit/
littlebittybobby
10-1-22, 12:40pm
Okay----Biking--road biking---gives you a new perspective. If I ride to Strafford or Marshfield, and back on a Sundy, I cross several highways. While I'm waiting to cross, I wonder: Where is everyone going? Getting out and just DRIVE seems to be the national pastime. I know people who buy nice, clean NEW vehicles, and in 5 years, they've piled up miles, and it's time to "trade"(get screwed). See? Even a number of bicyclists have large vehicles with bike racks on the back, so they can load up and DRIVE to some trail somewhere, that they heard about, and then bike, load up and DRIVE home. See? But yeah---people do it because they can. The wealth of fossil fuels was a remarkeable windfall, in the history of man. Hugely beneficial, in many ways. But guess what? WE have squandered that wealth of fossil fuels, and some have gone so far as to claim that it's presently mankinds' worst enemy! But yeah---that just shows that they don't "get it", either. See? Those People I'm talking about may also be making a mortgage payment on a "Dream Home" miles from town, but they are not actually occupying it, much iof the time. They are DRIVING to other places for something to do, as well as to commute to a job, so they can meet their mortgage payment, every month. See? It's all about the DRIVING. Hope that helps you some. Thankk Mee.
frugal-one
10-1-22, 2:40pm
Perhaps the real problem is vehicle use, in light of climate change, and if people are serious about helping.
I do grant there are people who don't buy into human caused climate change and that cars are not part of the problem anyway.
Mister Money Moustache had a good article, "Curbing Your Clown Like Car Habit"
https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/04/22/curing-your-clown-like-car-habit/
You are missing the point entirely. In this area, it is a waste to have lanes for bikes because they are NOT USED. No denying it would be better if bikes were used but here they are NOT. So it is a mute point about climate change. The bike lanes are a waste of tax payer money here. YLMV
For me, I absolutely HATE riding a bike. I live in a small town and walk when I can. If I need anything though, I need to go to the city which is too far to ride a bike (which I wouldn't do even if I could). Even as a kid, when I was given a bike as a gift, I was bummed. I have never seen the draw. To each their own.
I assume then you are referring to a specific bike lane or lanes in your town that are virtually unused, rather than bike lanes in general. I can image there are towns like that where people don't ever use bikes or kids don't ride bikes to school.
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