View Full Version : Why must everything get more and more complicated??
I wasn't sure where to post this. Both the bank where I've had accounts for many years, and the credit union I have belonged to for 43 years have "updated and improved" their online banking websites. It's absolutely ridiculous how complicated they are now. The earlier ones were sooooo compact and simple. Now it's like being in a huge maze. Also, if I want to print out documents now, they are 7-8 pages long, instead of half of that because all the info is so spread out. I think someone has too much time on their hands, to think about how to make something simple, as complicated as possible. Sometimes I can't even find some info on there that used to be so easy to find. It's a bummer.
Every manager who comes along feels it is necessary to change everything (so every third time a new manager is hired, things return to normal). You might lodge a complaint--maybe if they get enough feedback, they'll adjust the site.
I feel the same way about aspects of my library site, but I've found workarounds.
Our accounts at our CU were so complex that we "broke" their computer system one time. Add customers like us to new governmental regulations and privacy concerns, things are just getting more and more complex.
And I don't think it's a matter of being older and not being able to be flexible. Why search through 10 pages for something that used to only take 2?
I think you're right Jane. It happens with department and grocery stores too. It kinda reminds me of when JC Penney went through a huge change. NOBODY liked it. They got rid of the guy who planned it all and went back to what it was, but I think they lost a lot of customers in the process. I have always LOVED this credit union. I became a member in 1976 when I worked at the university that it started from. They are fantastic about everything. But this change..........it's very disappointing.
Simplemind
8-3-19, 12:36pm
I don't think it is being older and inflexible either. I'm pretty savvy with multiple systems since it was my job for 30 years. I'm rarely seeing anything that has improved the way I use it, just more steps to do the same thing. We are always saying..... just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
When my 15 year-old DGS says that things are changing rapidly over the past 3 years and rhymes off the changes, I know that life is changing and will require alertness to keep up with it all.
iris lilies
8-3-19, 1:40pm
And I don't think it's a matter of being older and not being able to be flexible. Why search through 10 pages for something that used to only take 2?
I think you're right Jane. It happens with department and grocery stores too. It kinda reminds me of when JC Penney went through a huge change. NOBODY liked it. They got rid of the guy who planned it all and went back to what it was, but I think they lost a lot of customers in the process. I have always LOVED this credit union. I became a member in 1976 when I worked at the university that it started from. They are fantastic about everything. But this change..........it's very disappointing.
Unlike you, I loved the concept of Penney’s “No Sales Ever, we Give You Our Lowest Price NOW” but since
I shop for clothing chiefly at thrift stores, I wasn’t enough of a customer to keep that concept afloat.
Just finished the book “retrotopia”. It wasn’t the best writing style, and was a little pedantic, but it basically coveted the idea in this post. Technology improves to a certain point and then afterward becomes less useful and even harmful. I think you would enjoy the story, Cathy.
Sad Eyed Lady
8-3-19, 7:51pm
All the talk several years ago of a paperless society hasn't panned out. As CathyA pointed out, much more paper is generated now, where a few pages used to cover everything.
This is my main beef with modern life--it's too damn complicated. I have by far the simplest life of anyone I know, and I still can't keep track of all the stuff that I'm supposed to keep track of.
Technology improves to a certain point and then afterward becomes less useful and even harmful.
I've especially noticed this phenomenon at work. Right now, for example, there are no fewer than three different messaging systems competing for your attention--email, the old IM system and the one they are replacing it with (not to mention the phone, which people still use occasionally). Things are constantly popping up on my screen and distracting me from my actual work. I still haven't figured out how IM represents an improvement over email.
I think a lot of technologies have reached a point of diminishing returns. Spreadsheets and word processing enabled quantum leaps in productivity over adding machines and typewriters, but now they have become a drain on productivity in many ways. Technology vendors keep larding on new features because they can, and so they can render the old product obsolete, not because their customers want or need them. Quite the contrary. Most everyone I know dreads the "upgrade" to a new OS or the introduction of some "great new feature," which invariably turns out to be nothing more than a time-consuming pain in the ass.
I agree with oldhat. MS Word used to be great. Now it's so non-intuitive that anytime I want to use any feature I have to google to figure out where it is.
And in addition to the various communications methods mentioned I'm now dealing with younger people texting me and expecting near instantaneous response. Ugggh. As if it wasn't crazy enough that now an insurance submission gets turned around in a day or two instead of a couple of weeks, as was the standard when I started in insurance 16 years ago.
I thought about this as I looked for a toaster oven today. What used to be a simple device has turned into something that is way too complicated and expensive IMO.
Of course, you can find a new toaster like an old one, but you’ll pay dearly for it.
https://buymeonce.com/search?q=Toaster
I guess in some ways this is the ultimate upgrade, make it simple, again.
That is why I love my bicycle. It provides me with simple transportation. And even it is kind of complex, because they had to make it with disk brakes.
Of course, you can find a new toaster like an old one, but you’ll pay dearly for it.
https://buymeonce.com/search?q=Toaster
I guess in some ways this is the ultimate upgrade, make it simple, again.
I found a nice--apparently unused--one at a thrift store for six dollars (Cuisinart?). It only fits two slices of standard-sized bread, but I rarely use it, so I guess that's OK.
ToomuchStuff
8-6-19, 1:02pm
I am certainly a luddite. When it comes to word processors, I prefer WORDS, to those blasted icon's at the top of them, that are "features". Take me back to Wordperfect 1.0 please.
I don't want to pay for inconvenience, so I use Libreoffice.
Our property tax system, to pay and get receipts online, now generates more paper, because it was switched from a computer/web based portal, to a phone based portal. (information more spread out and larger text)
For those without a smart phone, and EXTREMELY limited Android/IOS experience, it is NOT intuitive.
Reminds me of my uncle, who complained about either having to spend money to "upgrade equipment", or send it off in taxes. When he taught a class on what he did, this subject came up and he said new equipment/software, was something you spent money on to do things slower and through money away at. When you get the hang and some benefit from it, time to do it again. Applied inefficiency was I believe the term he used.
Think how many things require another thing to work correctly. A thing for your thing.
Sad Eyed Lady
8-7-19, 9:08am
Yesterday I went to the mall. A rare event in itself, but I needed to pick up a couple of things there, one of which was for another person. In one store I had picked up one of the items I needed, $5.85 or something close to that figure and I was paying with cash. The sales person starting asking my name, my phone number, address etc., and what should have been a 5 minute transaction turned into a thing. Nothing against the woman, she was nice, and nothing against that particular store, it is just a simple cash transaction should not be be complicated. I asked her, why? Why do I need to be in your system? She seemed a bit flustered then said something about if I wanted to make a return. I assume as long as I have the receipt and an undamaged item I surely can make a return without being in their system! Anyway, just an example. Likewise going to the post office and purchasing one stamp should be seconds. Here's my 50 cents, here's your stamp, thank you have a nice day. No, even that is subject to the computer scan and any problems it throws out.
It's not quite in line with the thread, but my laptop drives me nuts with its messages about everything needing to be updated. It's a MacBook Pro, aluminum and glass - built to last. But... Since it's probably just shy of fifteen years old, the web browsers are no longer supported unless I upgrade the operating system, and the operating system won't update because there's not enough ram or something. Lately, dropbox stopped working. Some backup or other stopped working. One by one all my software is quitting on me. At home, about the only computery thing I do with the computer any more is budget and track expenses, because everything else is broken.
When I write letters, I use a typewriter from the 1930s that was owned by my mother-in-law's mother. I bicycle to work almost every day in nice weather on a 1952 Raleigh Superbe, (and in bad weather I use my "new" bike, a 1978 Schwinn). I sew backpacking gear on a treadle sewing machine I think was made in the 1910s sometime. I have an old thrift store turntable and amplifier that still works fine. Our pots and pans are all twenty to thirty years old. I use a GE percolator every morning that was made at the plant in Rhode Island, or somewhere like that, that is god knows how old. Our rotary phone still works fine, albeit with a pulse to tone convertor, because our phone line started having trouble with pulse dialing. Most of my cameras were made between 1965 and 1975. They work fine for what I want a camera for. And, none of that stuff was really expensive.
Why is it that this 2008 or so MacBook Pro that I paid $1300 for or something like that, refuses to work properly. It's simply bad design - bad from a user standpoint, bad from a cultural standpoint, and bad from an ecological standpoint. The tech industry should really work on durable design.
Teacher Terry
12-3-19, 10:51am
On the bright side you can buy a small laptop for 100 at Walmart. I did that a few years ago for travel.
The $100 Walmart laptop does not hold a candle to the capabiity and quality of even a ten-year-old MacBook Pro. On the other hand, pcooley could buy a newer MacBook Pro for a few hundred dollars which would be good for a while longer. But that misses the point.
Electronic objects are not purely mechanical objects whose jobs have not changed in decades. That '52 Raleigh traverses over roads which are built essentially the same way they were hundreds of years ago. Pots and pans cook the same way they did for your grandparents (though induction cookware adds some safety benefits and imposes some materials restrictions).
Electronics is a newer field and we still are figuring out what they can do. Argue about cat videos and social media if you like, but the rapid ascendance of the mobile phone has connected people throughout the world, putting a wealth of human knowledge, experience, and agency in their hands, and does so at ever lower costs.
Cars today come with accident-avoidance and survival designs and equipment that we could only dream about years ago; in fact, 30-40 years ago the number of people who were killed in car accidents annually was equivalent to the total number that died in the Vietnam War. The death rate in cars today is half of what it was in the 80s even though cars cover half again the number of miles they did back then.
Not to be unkind, but time marches on. The switch from pulse dialing to tone dialing took place because it allowed more efficient use of expensive telephone company switches (which customers paid for); tone dialing also is now used for voice-response systems ("Press 4 to get your account balance.") and systems like burglar alarms and LifeAlert-type systems. Newer equipment; additional capabilities. Good thing there's a cheap interface box.
In the case of the MacBook Pro, even the computing environment today is different. People have figured out how to game the system and steal information or disrupt operations on computers connected to the Internet; newer versions of applications and operating systems close those loopholes. (This is not perfect; sometimes closing those loopholes breaks functionality or opens new loopholes, but the effort is there the same way it is made in other industries). Newer computers are far more interoperable in the world than they were.
I'll say that I used a nine-year-old MacBook Pro until about two years ago (it was replaced because it physically wore out). I kept up with security updates and could find applications to do what I needed to do without the vendor endlessly berating me to update. I do use the Internet :welcome: and find it makes my life simpler to buy some things on-line, so it makes sense to protect my personal and financial information as best I can. Having to update my computer occasionally is part of the price of what I can do with it. I use the money I've saved by not updating my circa-1978 receiver and 1981 Trek. :) On balance it is worth it to me. Electronics are just a different beast.
ToomuchStuff
12-4-19, 8:08am
For decades, my father and a few others I know said technology would be better for the consumer, if things were standardized. To some degree they are. I can use a computer case from 20 years ago, and buy a current motherboard to go in it, in a similar fashion to buying a new motor and putting it in a classic car. But I can't add crumple zones, no easily installable airbags, etc.
Laptops tend to be proprietary. For years, there has been a movement for an arm based laptop (which won't mean anything to most of you), and now, a hobbiest one has developed to the stage where they are hoping that eventually, it will be you can buy a new motherboard and upgrade it, the way I could put a motor in that classic car. For people like me, who liked playing with some tech, for learning things, it is very much worth the $199 that it is sold for, and the only reason I haven't jumped, was what I just spent a bunch of money on, that I have waited a year for. The laptop for anyone interested is the Pinebook Pro.
What I found getting away from a lot of the commercial software, is a way to extend a devices functionality to suit my needs, and be more budget friendly.
I was just trying to decide whether to replace the transmitter for my weather station, get an entire new weather station setup (actually cheaper than replacing the transmitter for the old one), or get downright primitive and use an old-fashioned outdoor thermometer. My narrow front porch wraps around the kitchen, which is where I have the partially disabled old weather station, so walking to a window to see how cold it is out there is no great inconvenience. I decided on the outdoor thermometer, whose ad copy was bragging about how primitive it is. No buttons, whee! No hassling with resetting the time, time zone, etc. after replacing the batteries! (If you're wondering why I don't just step outside to see how cold it is, I'm 74, am told I have osteoporosis, and am very concerned about black ice on my two-car size parking pad which I *must* cross to get to the car or take out the trash. I really need to know if the temperature is below freezing or not). The original weather station is a technological nightmare, from the teensy-tiny screws that have to be removed to get at the battery compartment in the transmitter to resetting the time on the main screen, which can take a number of tries through several steps, and then getting the transmitter to actually transmit to the receiver which usually requires a lot of foul language plus divine intervention. I might add that the weather station is in the kitchen because I've never been able to find a battery operated clock small enough to fit anywhere that I can see while cooking, so the weather station is parked on the windowsill over the sink. Oh, and those screwdrivers - they didn't come with the original weather station. I bought a whole set of them at a dollar store one browse-y afternoon because they might be useful someday for an eyeglasses repair. That was years ago, and I have no idea where I'd ever find another set. And this is just about one item. 'Ease of use' is getting higher and higher on my priority list.
I'm sorry that folks are suffering from all the complexity, although I'm relieved to find company. I used to look forward to doing as much as possible on the computer; now I freeze up, anticipating a frustrating experience, especially on certain sites I have to use occasionally that seem to be designed only for Chrome users, and any new ones. Some of the problem is, I think, a strong trend to make everything into entertainment and/or to convince the consumer that they're getting lots of bang for their bucks. My cell phone is positively loathsome in this regard, and I keep wishing I could find one that only dials out, and will NOT connect to the internet except for time or weather or allow the installation of any games. I'd love to pitch it, but feel I need a way to get help for road emergencies and to back up my lousy, ancient, landline home phone which frequently breaks down. Also consider the stupid factor. Everybody wants to work in IT because of the high salaries and the chic of being a techie. Speaking as a trained programmer and webmaster, many of these people have no idea of what they're doing, and have neither the intelligence nor the talent to learn. But the C- students still get jobs, usually at discount shopping sites or hard up nonprofits. There. I feel better.
Also, if I want to print out documents now, they are 7-8 pages long, instead of half of that because all the info is so spread out.
I think we're back at picture book days. I noticed the same thing--when I try to print out an Uber receipt for business travel, for instance, it's 3 pages long because the information is in big boxes, large, rounded fonts--then it's too wide to fit on the page, so I have to remember to scale it down before I hit Print. All I need is "Here is where I started, here is where I ended, here is the date, here is what it cost me." But to your point, why do I have to kill a tree for that information, when it could fit on an index card.
[Jemima, so good to see you back!]
Jemima I prepay my monthly cell phone bill and only pay an amount that excludes data. If I click on the internet by accident it will not connect but give me an error message.
Teacher Terry
12-4-19, 10:17pm
When my desktop computer dies I will switch to my cheap laptop. It’s sufficient for my needs.
ToomuchStuff
12-5-19, 12:43am
Jemima, my current phone, is a Samsung candy bar style, SGH-T199. Because of various things I'd listened to, (and having my old 2G phone stop working in areas, like my home, I upgraded to that and just recently bought an Alcatel 4044 4G flip phone. The other option is the newer style, Nokia 2720 4G flip, but I haven't seen any real American models, just grey market ones.
Catherine, do you actually submit paper receipts for business travel?
happystuff
12-5-19, 7:58am
While I don't mind improvements or upgrades, I do agree with everyone here that most are worthless and only serve to complicate things.
On the personal side, I keep getting notifications from my cell carrier - Tracfone - that I need to upgrade my phone to work on the new 5G system at the end of the year. I just bought this phone two years ago and my dh got the exact same phone. He, however, has not been getting the notifications. I keep trying to look on my phone to see what can tell me I really do have to replace/upgrade it, but can't find anything. I have a feeling if I call Tracfone, they are just going to tell me to get a new phone. Sigh... I like, even enjoy, technology, but it is so frustrating sometimes.
Catherine, do you actually submit paper receipts for business travel?
I submit them in a pdf file, but I have to start with paper in many cases. I do get many receipts, like hotel and airfare, electronically, but there are a lot of little things like Uber, restaurants, etc that I still have to compile, scan, and then electronically email the pdf of the receipts to my clients.
I submit them in a pdf file, but I have to start with paper in many cases. I do get many receipts, like hotel and airfare, electronically, but there are a lot of little things like Uber, restaurants, etc that I still have to compile, scan, and then electronically email the pdf of the receipts to my clients.
Why don’t you just print them to pdf? I can understand restaurant receipts since they are given to you as paper, but Uber receipts are already digital, just in the wrong file format.
I was just trying to decide whether to replace the transmitter for my weather station, get an entire new weather station setup (actually cheaper than replacing the transmitter for the old one), or get downright primitive and use an old-fashioned outdoor thermometer. My narrow front porch wraps around the kitchen, which is where I have the partially disabled old weather station, so walking to a window to see how cold it is out there is no great inconvenience. I decided on the outdoor thermometer, whose ad copy was bragging about how primitive it is. No buttons, whee! No hassling with resetting the time, time zone, etc. after replacing the batteries! (If you're wondering why I don't just step outside to see how cold it is, I'm 74, am told I have osteoporosis, and am very concerned about black ice on my two-car size parking pad which I *must* cross to get to the car or take out the trash. I really need to know if the temperature is below freezing or not). The original weather station is a technological nightmare, from the teensy-tiny screws that have to be removed to get at the battery compartment in the transmitter to resetting the time on the main screen, which can take a number of tries through several steps, and then getting the transmitter to actually transmit to the receiver which usually requires a lot of foul language plus divine intervention. I might add that the weather station is in the kitchen because I've never been able to find a battery operated clock small enough to fit anywhere that I can see while cooking, so the weather station is parked on the windowsill over the sink. Oh, and those screwdrivers - they didn't come with the original weather station. I bought a whole set of them at a dollar store one browse-y afternoon because they might be useful someday for an eyeglasses repair. That was years ago, and I have no idea where I'd ever find another set. And this is just about one item. 'Ease of use' is getting higher and higher on my priority list.
We have a big thermometer hanging outside the dining room. If I were you I would buy a thermometer (it's like a big clock) and hang it outside by the sink window.
We also bought a weather stick for under 5 dollars--it actually does a great job predicting good/bad weather. Here is what it looks like:
https://www.vermontcountrystore.com/ccstore/v1/images/?source=/file/v4729032714387815628/products/H1606.01.png&height=700&width=450&outputFormat=JPEG&quality=0.8
SteveinMN
12-5-19, 11:41am
I keep getting notifications from my cell carrier - Tracfone - that I need to upgrade my phone to work on the new 5G system at the end of the year. I just bought this phone two years ago and my dh got the exact same phone. He, however, has not been getting the notifications.
I suspect that notification is a sales tactic, kind of like the postcards you get from car dealers promising an unusually large trade in value on the car you bought from them 2-3 years earlier. They make money selling you a new vehicle and (likely) make money reselling the vehicle you trade in.
The fact is that 5G is the future, but, as William Gibson said, it isn't evenly distributed yet. Right now no one can simply point to a random spot on a map of the U.S. and expect 5G coverage. And tens of millions of existing phones cannot access the 5G bands. In addition, MVNOs (like Tracfone) rarely are at the leading edge of technology. So you likely have at least two more years with your current phone before it is in danger of no longer handling calls because the bands it uses have been reapportioned to other "G"s.
SteveinMN
12-5-19, 12:08pm
Jemima, my current phone, is a Samsung candy bar style, SGH-T199. Because of various things I'd listened to, (and having my old 2G phone stop working in areas, like my home, I upgraded to that and just recently bought an Alcatel 4044 4G flip phone. The other option is the newer style, Nokia 2720 4G flip, but I haven't seen any real American models, just grey market ones.
I was going to write that a "flip" phone (euphemized as a "feature" phone or "simple" phone, depending on the seller) might be the ticket for Jemima. The only issue might be the size of the screen and display elements. Some phones (from Doro, Alcatel, and some others) might address those issues. All have their own restrictions but none of them are data-intensive even if they offer apps/clients for Facebook, Whatsapp, etc.
I had a 2720 back when they were first introduced; loved that phone but managed promptly to lose it. :|( Right now, I have a Nokia 3310 3G I won in an auction cheap (always been a Nokia fan and the retro look -- and the $15 price -- got to me). The 3310 is another update on a Nokia classic. It's the phone we keep around if we're doing dirty work and don't want to be carrying anything expensive or don't know where our smartphone is. I have no desire to ditch my iPhone for it but I could see where it would serve someone well if they think they should have a phone but don't want to spend hundreds on an Android or iOS phone.
gimmethesimplelife
12-5-19, 12:38pm
And I don't think it's a matter of being older and not being able to be flexible. Why search through 10 pages for something that used to only take 2?
I think you're right Jane. It happens with department and grocery stores too. It kinda reminds me of when JC Penney went through a huge change. NOBODY liked it. They got rid of the guy who planned it all and went back to what it was, but I think they lost a lot of customers in the process. I have always LOVED this credit union. I became a member in 1976 when I worked at the university that it started from. They are fantastic about everything. But this change..........it's very disappointing.Cathy, I can relate regarding the credit union. I bank at Arizona Central Credit Union and they are becoming more complex and more bank like every year. I've been with them since a few months after I returned to Arizona in 1996 - they were once wonderful and now I'm seeking a new credit union. Rob
happystuff
12-5-19, 4:50pm
I suspect that notification is a sales tactic, kind of like the postcards you get from car dealers promising an unusually large trade in value on the car you bought from them 2-3 years earlier. They make money selling you a new vehicle and (likely) make money reselling the vehicle you trade in.
The fact is that 5G is the future, but, as William Gibson said, it isn't evenly distributed yet. Right now no one can simply point to a random spot on a map of the U.S. and expect 5G coverage. And tens of millions of existing phones cannot access the 5G bands. In addition, MVNOs (like Tracfone) rarely are at the leading edge of technology. So you likely have at least two more years with your current phone before it is in danger of no longer handling calls because the bands it uses have been reapportioned to other "G"s.
Thank you so much!!! I won't worry so much about this now.
Why don’t you just print them to pdf? I can understand restaurant receipts since they are given to you as paper, but Uber receipts are already digital, just in the wrong file format.
Pretty much the same thing--I could save as a PDF but would have to remember to scale it correctly--otherwise is saves the same way it prints. Then I have to compile all receipts into one document, scan and then send.
I suspect that notification is a sales tactic, kind of like the postcards you get from car dealers promising an unusually large trade in value on the car you bought from them 2-3 years earlier. They make money selling you a new vehicle and (likely) make money reselling the vehicle you trade in.
The fact is that 5G is the future, but, as William Gibson said, it isn't evenly distributed yet. Right now no one can simply point to a random spot on a map of the U.S. and expect 5G coverage. And tens of millions of existing phones cannot access the 5G bands. In addition, MVNOs (like Tracfone) rarely are at the leading edge of technology. So you likely have at least two more years with your current phone before it is in danger of no longer handling calls because the bands it uses have been reapportioned to other "G"s.
Hmm, within 10 minutes after I read this post about 5G, I saw this Scientific America article that my permaculture teacher posted on FB about 5G. Maybe we need to start a thread combining this type of news with the news about hair dye and cancer risk in another thread!
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/we-have-no-reason-to-believe-5g-is-safe/?fbclid=IwAR3pId5FrKFkMuf96dUK6CnGGk2qr06ANfRx5APH UGPcsujdqoZim7nwhcs
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