Another mass shooting, apparently in TX.

[Ultralight]

I am sure the GOP will say the answer is more guns or more prayers or both.

Getting very depressing to read about these incidents so often.

[Teacher Terry]

I am totally disgusted by the lack of action on the part of our government. Kids are collateral damage. Pretty disgusting!

[Alan]

I am totally disgusted by the lack of action on the part of our goal. What is your goal?

[Ultralight]

My prediction is that as a society, as a culture, we will eventually accept gun deaths the same way we accept automobile deaths (40,000 a year). It is just the cost of operations, just the cost of the American lifestyle.

[Tybee]

I just wish we'd try to figure out why everyone seems to be going nuts; why is modern life so stressful and destructive? Why is everyone so jittery and angry that they escalate to shooting each other.

[Rogar]

Seems like the general public gets riled up for a few days and the politicians give it some lip service, but it's quickly forgotten until the next one. I think these things can also be addressed at the state level where it might be a little easier to get things done since I don't think T has any intention of going against the NRA. I can't tell if any gun law would have deterred this last one?

[Ultralight]

Lots of "good guys with guns" in TX. Why didn't they immediately stop it?

[Zoe Girl]

What is your goal?

My goal is to significantly reduce gun deaths in mass shootings. One first step is to do some impartial research on the issue. I know that is considered impossible but what the heck, just dreaming. Then we could renew the violence against women act and get a comprehensive system that works to keep legal guns out of the hands of people convicted of domestic violence (or when a protection order is served since that is the most dangerous time for women).

On another note, my daughter takes her personal time off every year on the anniversary of the shooting she survived. Her supervisors understand but they could easily turn her down. It has been 6 years. There are others with wounds that are costing them quality of life and money. Along with vets, because it is not either/or, I would like good medical care for the survivors. So awareness of the survivors and support.

[Tybee]

Then we could renew the violence against women act and get a comprehensive system that works to keep legal guns out of the hands of people convicted of domestic violence (or when a protection order is served since that is the most dangerous time for women).
. . . . Along with vets, because it is not either/or, I would like good medical care for the survivors.

I think these are great ideas. Spoken as someone who had to obtain a protective order when divorcing spouse.
Absolutely terrifying, especially as he had threatened to have another ex-wife bumped off, that he had people who could do it and no one would ever know.

[Teacher Terry]

Alan, it was a typo and I corrected it.

[iris lilies]

And we had another police shooting of a black man yesterday, so on it goes. The victim was in a mall with a gun so who knows what he was planning to do, but likely he was just going about his business in the mall with a gun because that’s what he and his peer group do.

In the past two weeks St. Louis has had tons of children killed with random gunfire by the criminal element shooting up each other. The city attorney and mayor are begging for leads in these shootings but those communities are not talking. This prosecutor’s conviction rate is 20%. Her predecessor, in office for a long time and well respected, achieved an 80% prosecution rate.

[pinkytoe]

What a sad state of affairs our country has become...I DO think there is an epidemic of young males who have little impulse control and or healthy role models.

[Ultralight]

What a sad state of affairs our country has become...I DO think there is an epidemic of young males who have little impulse control and or healthy role models.

It seems like most of these shooters plan and plot out their attacks. They don't appear to be impulsive.

Like, I think two dip sh1ts at a hockey game arguing and one punches the other on impulse. That is a lack of impulse control.

If one of them plotted and planned to go to a game, find someone to argue with and subsequently punch you really wouldn't call that impulsive, would you?

As for healthy role models... I dunno. Is that a big deal?

[gimmethesimplelife]

My goal is to significantly reduce gun deaths in mass shootings. One first step is to do some impartial research on the issue. I know that is considered impossible but what the heck, just dreaming. Then we could renew the violence against women act and get a comprehensive system that works to keep legal guns out of the hands of people convicted of domestic violence (or when a protection order is served since that is the most dangerous time for women).

On another note, my daughter takes her personal time off every year on the anniversary of the shooting she survived. Her supervisors understand but they could easily turn her down. It has been 6 years. There are others with wounds that are costing them quality of life and money. Along with vets, because it is not either/or, I would like good medical care for the survivors. So awareness of the survivors and support.That's right, ZG. I'd forgotten the shootings in Colorado and your up and close personal experience with the concept of a deranged individual just shooting out of nowhere.

I don't know the answers here. especially with the damnable 2nd Amendment so interwoven into US society and such a part of this nation's identity.

But those who have survived these situations......we need to.listen to THEM more. Their takes to me are the most valid. Rob

[bae]

But those who have survived these situations......we need to.listen to THEM more. Their takes to me are the most valid. Rob

I'm not sure that simply surviving an attack makes one an expert on public policy matters.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I'm not sure that simply surviving an attack makes one an expert on public policy matters.(Sort of) in the same vein with Holocaust Survivors - theirs are voices that need to be heard as they have been there, done that, and know from personal experience what they are talking about. Public policy experts they may not be but riddle me this? Why doesn't society elevate the importance of these survivors' voices, and does the lack of such elevation clearly state about the worth of human life in America? Rob

[iris lilies]

(Sort of)... Why doesn't society elevate the importance of these survivors' voices, and does the lack of such elevation clearly state about the worth of human life in America? Rob

uhhhhh, no.

Tangentially I would argue that Holocaust survivors don’t have exactly the same experience as survivors of random mass shootings. Certainly they share being in a horrific situation. But any more said goes into victim Olympics territory so I’ll stay away from that. It doesn’t really matter, being a victim of a mass shooting is just awful.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I just wish we'd try to figure out why everyone seems to be going nuts; why is modern life so stressful and destructive? Why is everyone so jittery and angry that they escalate to shooting each other.My quick answer.....which does not cover all reasons by any means.....no real road map to navigate society, no sense of hope for a future, and no sense of belonging for many. Rob

[Ultralight]

I'm not sure that simply surviving an attack makes one an expert on public policy matters.
Could not agree more!

[Ultralight]

(Sort of) in the same vein with Holocaust Survivors - theirs are voices that need to be heard as they have been there, done that, and know from personal experience what they are talking about. Public policy experts they may not be but riddle me this? Why doesn't society elevate the importance of these survivors' voices, and does the lack of such elevation clearly state about the worth of human life in America? Rob


Sorry, Rob. That is not how expertise works.

[Ultralight]

I think victims' and survivors have an important message to deliver if they so choose.

I do not think they are experts on law-making or policy-crafting though.

[jp1]

So is offering up thoughts and prayers not enough anymore? That’s worked so well in the past, why are people giving up on it? Especially now that we’re teaching little kids how to deal with active shooter situations. Surely that’s enough to justify the second amendment suicide pact isn’t it???

[Ultralight]

So is offering up thoughts and prayers not enough anymore? That’s worked so well in the past, why are people giving up on it? Especially now that we’re teaching little kids how to deal with active shooter situations. Surely that’s enough to justify the second amendment suicide pact isn’t it???

I sense sarcasm.

[ToomuchStuff]

Lots of "good guys with guns" in TX. Why didn't they immediately stop it?

Cost, legal hassle, and training that it is defensive in nature. That would be my expectations.

[Alan]

Lots of "good guys with guns" in TX. Why didn't they immediately stop it?


Cost, legal hassle, and training that it is defensive in nature. That would be my expectations.
One factor is that virtually everyplace a person might visit is a "safe space" where despite the name, people are not allowed to defend themselves effectively.

[bae]

One factor is that virtually everyplace a person might visit is a "safe space" where despite the name, people are not allowed to defend themselves effectively.

Another factor is the nature of reality.

I wonder what density of people with firearms handy would be required to guaranteed that an incident is stopped "immediately"? What does "immediately" even mean in this context? We've had incidents that lasted only a minute or so, that's pretty "immediate", and yet lots of folks were killed or injured.

I carry a firearm pretty much everywhere I go. I also train with local law enforcement to enter active shooting environments as part of our response team. Our current protocol is to move rapidly towards the shooter, and not take much time triageing the wounded along the way, to reduce overall casualties by ending the shooting as soon as possible. But, it's a team sport, we have armor, communications/coordination, and better weapons than I might normally carry when out by myself alone.

If I'm on my own in a mall, and I hear shooting, I'm not going to charge solo towards the sounds, thinking I'll magically save the day. I'll help people in my immediate area move to safety as best I can, or secure the area we are in. It's not a "'one good guy with a gun will save the day, every day" sort of reality, except in a reactive sense.

[Alan]

If I'm on my own in a mall, and I hear shooting, I'm not going to charge solo towards the sounds, thinking I'll magically save the day. I'll help people in my immediate area move to safety as best I can, or secure the area we are in. It's not a "'one good guy with a gun will save the day, every day" sort of reality, except in a reactive sense.I think only those wishing to disarm us think in terms of civilian responders attempting to "magically" save the day.

I'm a practitioner of the OODA Loop concept and in that same scenario I'd advance towards the sounds in hopes of being able to possibly disrupt the shooter enough that potential victims might escape. Throwing .40 S&W rounds in his direction is a pretty effective means of accomplishing that goal and frankly, if I had the means and ability to do so yet did not, I'm not sure I could live with myself. A lifetime of training and preparation has that affect on some.

[bae]

I'm a practitioner of the OODA Loop concept and in that same scenario I'd advance towards the sounds in hopes of being able to possibly disrupt the shooter enough that potential victims might escape.

Given the opportunity, yes.

That's why I specified mall. Malls are big spaces. Odd acoustics. I have trouble enough finding my way out to my own car.

In the large mainland malls here, I've decided that my most productive action is to deal with the space I am in, or can easily perceive. In our local theater, performing arts center, or school, a different course of action is called for, but I know those spaces well enough that I can move through them in completely-blacked-out environments while wearing heavy protective gear and breathing apparatus :-)

[bae]

https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/43-people-shot-in-chicago-media-silent/

[Tradd]

https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/43-people-shot-in-chicago-media-silent/

Eh, only the locals really care about it.

[Teacher Terry]

I don’t want to live in the Wild West where I am as likely to get shot by a Good Samaritan as I would be by the crazy person. Plus when the police arrive they won’t know who are the good guys. They may shoot them and say oops later. No thanks.