View Full Version : Hong Kong
gimmethesimplelife
9-2-19, 9:01pm
I was off today and I spent part of the day reading about the protests in Hong Kong and what is behind them. It's really scary to me as it seems Mainland China is no longer honoring the terms of the signover of Hong Kong from Great Britian. What do you'all think of what's going down in Hong Kong? I for one sense that Hong Kong will not emerge from this quite the same. Rob
Teacher Terry
9-2-19, 9:49pm
I totally agree Rob.
It's interesting to see all the American flags and statements of support for American style democracy among the protesters. Rob, don't you find it odd that they put themselves at risk for something you disdain?
Ultralight
9-2-19, 10:19pm
It's interesting to see all the American flags and statements of support for American style democracy among the protesters. Rob, don't you find it odd that they put themselves at risk for something you disdain?
Alan, the Honk Kong democracy activists want American style democracy and civil liberty only as a first step!
The second and final step will be transforming into a Mexican style government. That will be the true victory!
gimmethesimplelife
9-2-19, 10:24pm
Alan, the Honk Kong democracy activists want American style democracy and civil liberty only as a first step!
The second and final step will be transforming into a Mexican style government. That will be the true victory!? No comprende? (I know the first question mark is supposed to be upside down but I don't have a Spanish language keyboard). Rob
gimmethesimplelife
9-2-19, 10:33pm
It's interesting to see all the American flags and statements of support for American style democracy among the protesters. Rob, don't you find it odd that they put themselves at risk for something you disdain?Sure doesn't seem as if the US (or any other Democratic developed nation for that matter) is extending much if any support to the protestors. And if I lived in Hong Kong, I'd be protesting, too. I never said I was a Communist. Not once since I arrived here September 2005. I only want healthcare access for all citizens and checks and balances against all law enforcement with more LEO convictions and imprisonment for breaking laws. And much fairer and saner income distribution. I'd call myself a Democratic Socialist, not a Communist. Communism is doomed to fail because there is no real incentive to bother to.care...American style capitalism is doomed to fail because it's based on fear of loss for most people. Both systems are highly toxic as far as I am concerned. But once again were I a resident/citizen of Hong Kong, I'd be protesting, too. Rob
Sure doesn't seem as if the US (or any other Democratic developed nation for that matter) is extending much if any support to the protestors. And if I lived in Hong Kong, I'd be protesting, too. I never said I was a Communist. Not once since I arrived here September 2005. I only want healthcare access for all citizens and checks and balances against all law enforcement with more LEO convictions and imprisonment for breaking laws. And much fairer and saner income distribution. I'd call myself a Democratic Socialist, not a Communist. Communism is doomed to fail because there is no real incentive to bother to.care...American style capitalism is doomed to fail because it's based on fear of loss for most people. Both systems are highly toxic as far as I am concerned. But once again were I a resident/citizen of Hong Kong, I'd be protesting, too. Rob
I don't think anyone has ever suggested you were a communist. I've been impressed with the protesters in Hong Kong because they don't seem to be interested in those things that fuel your protest fantasies. They want liberty and independence which is often at odds with your socialist desires, so I was surprised to see you start a thread showing support for them.
gimmethesimplelife
9-2-19, 10:50pm
I don't think anyone has ever suggested you were a communist. I've been impressed with the protesters in Hong Kong because they don't seem to be interested in those things that fuel your protest fantasies. They want liberty and independence which is often at odds with your socialist desires, so I was surprised to see you start a thread showing support for them.This probably won't surprise you, Alan, but the one thing that has me supporting the protestors? How the police turned on the people of Hong Kong. A absolutely unforgivable. And I'm not down with Beijing deciding a HKG resident is a criminal and then sending them to the mainland for prosecution. Per the signover agreement with Great Britain, is not HKG supposed to have it's own judiciary until 2047? That one right there would be enough to get me into the streets personally. Rob
I love that the protesters are using laser pointers. In places like Gaza they have to resort to stones. This is much cooler.
What’s the best US response? Trade sanctions? Sell some F-35s to Taiwan? A cable news pontification offensive?
ToomuchStuff
9-3-19, 11:46am
? No comprende? (I know the first question mark is supposed to be upside down but I don't have a Spanish language keyboard). Rob
Wrong again. As per when you were a moderator, your computer illiteracy is showing.
https://www.windowscentral.com/how-change-your-keyboard-layout-windows-10
gimmethesimplelife
9-4-19, 6:52am
Some potential good news in Hong Kong and a reason I personally believe in protests as I do..I just woke up at 3:30 AM. Going online I read that Carrie Lam, the Chief Executive of Hong Kong, formally withdrew the extradition bill that sparked the protests to begin with. In other words. Beijing knuckled under to the Protest ,Movement. Watch this lead to more protests against injustice around the world. Some commentators are saying this is too little too late as the protestors have more unmet demands but the point remains that average everyday people, using social media and the power of protest, were able to manipulate Beijing into knocking under to one key demand. This will not go unnoticed by those suffering injustice around the world. Rob
Hong Kong was given a raw deal, in my generally uninformed opinion. Why weren't they allowed to maintain their ties with the UK? I suppose I should look it up.
The American flags they're waving? They're thinking of the old US of A, when we were a beacon of, and stood up for, freedom.
gimmethesimplelife
9-4-19, 10:34am
Hong Kong was given a raw deal, in my generally uninformed opinion. Why weren't they allowed to maintain their ties with the UK? I suppose I should look it up.
The American flags they're waving? They're thinking of the old US of A, when we were a beacon of, and stood up for, freedom.Exactly, Jane. Today's America is about something very different. Notice how the police in Hong Kong have yet to murder anyone regardless of how violent the protestors have become lately? In America indeed there would have been cold blooded murders of protestors by the police by this time, had this played out on US soil. The Hong Kong police put American police to shame and serve to show us exactly how unfree we truly are. Rob
Exactly, Jane. Today's America is about something very different. Notice how the police in Hong Kong have yet to murder anyone regardless of how violent the protestors have become lately? In America indeed there would have been cold blooded murders of protestors by the police by this time, had this played out on US soil. The Hong Kong police put American police to shame and serve to show us exactly how unfree we truly are. Rob
Someone should explain to them how much better off they are under the enlightened communist Chinese regime than they would be in the brutish USA. Those ungrateful Uighurs and Tibetans too.
Some people just don’t know how well off they really are.
In America indeed there would have been cold blooded murders of protestors by the police by this time, had this played out on US soil.
Of the protests that have been going on in the USA over the past, say, 10 years, how many have had cold-blooded murders of protestors by the police?
gimmethesimplelife
9-4-19, 12:17pm
Of the protests that have been going on in the USA over the past, say, 10 years, how many have had cold-blooded murders of protestors by the police?Bae.....my point is that look how the Sacramento PD murdered Stephon Clark, who was completely unarmed, in cold blood for the crime of speaking on a cell phone in his grandmother's yard. And numerous similar incidents. Given that these protestors have indeed spiraled into violent behavior....at a level EVEN I HAVE ISSUES WITH, in America there would have been murders by the police. That's just the truth of America. I for one find it amazing thy hat police in Hong Kong have more regard for human life than American police do - such serves to highlight some home truths about America many people don't have the emotional strength to face. I do and I can see this one clearly. Rob
Bae.....my point is that ...
Your point is that you made a grandiose statement, and don't seem to be able to back it up.
gimmethesimplelife
9-4-19, 12:29pm
Your point is that you made a grandiose statement, and don't seem to be able to back it up.My point is that the police in America have murdered in cold blood for much less than the violent acts committed by protestors of late. Protestors have even been throwing molatov cocktails at Hong Kong police stations.....with no murders to date on the part of the Hong Kong police. If you honestly believe American police today are capable of such restraint, I have swampland in Yuma, AZ (a city averaging less than 4 inches of rain a year) I'd love to sell you. Rob
My point is that the police in America have murdered in cold blood for much less than the violent acts committed by protestors of late.
Of the protests that have been going on in the USA over the past, say, 10 years, how many have had cold-blooded murders of protestors by the police?
iris lilies
9-4-19, 1:47pm
When I Google “Sacramento police murder “I have to wade through all of the top stories about Tara O’Sullivan, a police officer, who was recently shot and killed while on duty.
Googling around, I found a story about Steven Clark. It’s Not related to the topic of this thread. Has nothing to do with protests. I don’t understand why Rob is trying to conflate this police officer involved shooting with protestors. But then, it is Rob so we can expect illogic in his quest to constantly pound his hobby horse.
Of the protests that have been going on in the USA over the past, say, 10 years, how many have had cold-blooded murders of protestors by the police?
Deployment of paltry factuality will gain scant traction with a mind that knows the truth of America.
gimmethesimplelife
9-4-19, 2:24pm
Of the protests that have been going on in the USA over the past, say, 10 years, how many have had cold-blooded murders of protestors by the police?Bae...off the top of my head I can't think of a single one. I grant you that. But the protests in America have not reached the level of violence in Hong Kong of late. If the Phoenix PD can threaten to kill over a .99 attic doll recently.....how do you think they'd respond to actual protestor violence as has went down in Hong Kong? Do you honestly believe they would not murder? Wow is all I can say. Truly I don't live in the same America you do. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
9-4-19, 2:31pm
Drat autocorrect, that should be plastic doll above.
Truly I don't live in the same America you do. Rob
You live in a fascinating place.
One in which you can make amazing claims, supported only by fears. Where you can take a single event from a different context, and use it to draw broadsweeping conclusions about another context.
So, of all the riots and protests in the USA over the past 10 years or so, some of which have been quite violent, not a single case of cold-blooded murders of protestors by police. And yet, next time, it'll happen for sure, you claim.
Fascinating. I'll ask Norm Stamper about that next time I have dinner with him.
iris lilies
9-4-19, 3:25pm
This show of illogic would be like me making this logical progression:
Iris’s hobby horse: Trees are The Enemy
Fact: Forest fires in recent years have killed and maimed hundreds of people and animals, and destroyed property
Fact: trees are the primary players in these events
Fact: no forest fires take place in Hong Kong
Conclusion: The Enemy, trees, are malevolent in America where human life is not respected.
:~)
gimmethesimplelife
9-4-19, 5:15pm
I've thought this over and my response to the previous posters? It's great that you have so much faith in the system and in the United States. I'm glad that someone does....I'm not equal to such. Part of it probably is that I have had experiences that caused me to comparison shop various citizenships. I'm guessing the previous posters have not done this? I can very much see that I process events in America and in the world in a different way than those posting directly above this post. This does not make you wrong per se nor your take(s) invalid. That said, neither does this make my take(s) wrong or invalid. Truly I live in a different America than some posters here, though geographically and legally this is not so. In reality on a plane beyond this, it remains very much true. It is amazing to me that I can be at a neighbor's house with SO and watching the news regarding Hong Kong and everyone in the room notices that the police in Hong Kong are not as bad as in the US. I suspect part of it is socioeconomics beyond life experiences. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
9-4-19, 5:17pm
Sorry I didn't make paragraphs above...typing quickly during a guest speaker speech at an event. And if I go back on my phone and try to edit, I will lose the post. Don't ask me why, for some reason my phone does this. Rob
It is amazing to me that I can be at a neighbor's house with SO and watching the news regarding Hong Kong and everyone in the room notices that the police in Hong Kong are not as bad as in the US. I suspect part of it is socioeconomics beyond life experiences. RobOr collective obsessional behavior, it feeds on itself.
You're being selective in your question Bae. If you don't specify police and remove the time constraint there are examples like Kent State.
I've thought this over and my response to the previous posters? It's great that you have so much faith in the system and in the United States. I'm glad that someone does....I'm not equal to such. Part of it probably is that I have had experiences that caused me to comparison shop various citizenships. I'm guessing the previous posters have not done this? I can very much see that I process events in America and in the world in a different way than those posting directly above this post. This does not make you wrong per se nor your take(s) invalid. That said, neither does this make my take(s) wrong or invalid. Truly I live in a different America than some posters here, though geographically and legally this is not so. In reality on a plane beyond this, it remains very much true. It is amazing to me that I can be at a neighbor's house with SO and watching the news regarding Hong Kong and everyone in the room notices that the police in Hong Kong are not as bad as in the US. I suspect part of it is socioeconomics beyond life experiences. Rob
Next time invite this guy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:FilePath/Tianasquare.jpg
gimmethesimplelife
9-4-19, 6:09pm
Getting back to my original post, I think it will be interesting to see what transpires in Hong Kong now - if the protests continue and the protestors press for their other four demands to be met. Or not. Rob
Teacher Terry
9-4-19, 6:11pm
Yes our country has it’s problems as all do. I am grateful that I was born here. My DIL is only alive because she immigrated here. Poland lacks the ability to perform her lifesaving surgery. People are literally dying trying to get here. I don’t bury my head in the sand about real issues. Still very grateful to be a American.
gimmethesimplelife
9-4-19, 6:19pm
You're being selective in your question Bae. If you don't specify police and remove the time constraint there are examples like Kent State.Good point. I'd forgotten about Kent State. Rob
Good point. I'd forgotten about Kent State. RobI don't think that's a good point at all. You complain about police murdering people during protests and the best you can do is come up with a 50 year old example of National Guard troops in a riot where arson and assault by brick were active components of the event. As tragic as that was, it does not reinforce or justify your misguided beliefs.
You're being selective in your question Bae. If you don't specify police and remove the time constraint there are examples like Kent State.
Yes. All of America, except Rob with his extensive comparison-shopping, knows about Kent State.
When did Kent State happen exactly? And which police units were involved? Has that happened again since? How often?
Does the example of Kent State support Rob's claim that police in the USA would engage in "cold-blooded murder" of protesters?
Maybe we should reach back to the Bonus Army for a current example too....
I'm guessing the previous posters have not done this?
And yet you have read posts of mine where I have discussed doing so, and some of my possible plans... Even responded to them.
gimmethesimplelife
9-4-19, 9:03pm
I just read online that the protests in Hong Kong will be continuing as protestors press to get their other four demands met. My kind of people! I have a lot of respect for everyday Hong Kong people at this point. I just wish there was something feasible and practical I could do to show solidarity with the protestors. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
9-17-19, 12:10pm
Hong Kong was given a raw deal, in my generally uninformed opinion. Why weren't they allowed to maintain their ties with the UK? I suppose I should look it up.
The American flags they're waving? They're thinking of the old US of A, when we were a beacon of, and stood up for, freedom.Something I've discovered is that when Portugal signed over Macau - a former colony/possession of theirs - Portugal offered Portugese citizenship/Portugese passports to all citizens of Macau. Britian did not do this for Hong Kong, and also attempted to.pressure Portugal not to offer citizenship to the people of Macau. I'm seeing Britian less favorably since learning this. And I agree, Jane.....Hong Kong and it's people did get a raw deal. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
9-17-19, 12:12pm
[QUOTE=gimmethesimplelife;334016]Something I've discovered is that when Portugal signed over Macau - a former colony/possession of theirs - Portugal offered Portugese citizenship/Portugese passports to all citizens of Macau. Britian did not do this for Hong Kong, and also attempted to.pressure Portugal not to offer citizenship to the people of Macau. I'm seeing Britian less favorably since learning this. And I agree, Jane.....Hong Kong and it's people did get a raw deal. Rob
PS.....came back to add that I could not agree more with your last sentence. Rob
If The US were to withdraw it’s support to an independent Taiwan , would that be a raw deal?
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