View Full Version : Inheritances
I came across this early morning click-bait article (https://news.education.investing.com/famous-people-who-cut-their-children-out-of-their-inheritance)this morning about famous people who didn't leave their money to their kids.
That got me thinking about inheritances in general.
One thing I learned about inheritances through life experiences is that no one cares about money like the person who worked for it. (I know, I know, these are not the words of a bleeding-heart liberal) In my family, unfortunately, I've seen inheritances absolutely wasted, and in some cases inheritances have enabled addictions. As I've said before, every time I think of my BIL throwing his inheritance away, I think of how many hours my MIL spent on her feet at Macy's earning that money. I think of my own mother--when my stepfather inherited 80k (1970 dollars), he and my mother spent freely and foolishly, and ultimately, my stepfather quit work and fell off the wagon and became addicted to pills and booze, which led to my mother's second divorce. A mere eight years after that inheritance, my mother had sold her two Cadillacs and was asking me if she could have a beat-up old car that I was trading in for a newer one. I've seen this outside my family--young adult kids doing around the world travel with inheritances and coming back broke.
For this reason, I don't mind being generous to my kids while I'm alive, but if I'm not concerned about leaving them my life savings.
What about you--What is your attitude toward inheritances?
Oh man, this is a really sore subject right now. I am not sure what my attitude is, except maybe there is no such thing as an inheritance until someone dies, which should be obvious, but is not to my brother, who views my parents' money as "his inheritance" and I think that is really problematic. It means, for example, my mom can't do what she has wanted for 25 years, to leave me her house. So this great house goes out of the family because it would come "out of his inheritance."
Both my parents inherited from their families. My dad used his to put his kids through college. Mom kept hers separate and plans to leave it to her kids in her will, unless my brother manages to take over all her property.
I see families ripped apart over perceived unfairness, and it seems to relate to feelings that "Mom always liked you better" and now I am going to get even.
I think all inheritances should be handled by trust officers and you should figure out what you want and get it in writing while you are still of sound mind and your heirs, if disgruntled, can go pound sand.
All that being said, I want to leave my kids a nice, helpful inheritance, and I want it to be completely equal.
iris lilies
2-29-20, 8:40am
Interestingly, my DH’s family of siblings who get along and are (mostly) reasonable people are now going to court over the family farm.
why they dont just sell the damn thing is beyond me.
My parents were very clear that we should not expect any money upon their death. My mom specifically said “your inheritance is your college tuition that’s what we’re paying for now.” Nonetheless she left my brother and me each $60,000, so that was a nice little amount enough to have some fun with but not enough to get in trouble over.
My brother handled her estate well with no problems, although it was simple. She had a brokerage account, a bank account that were both set ip for transfer on death. Her little house was newish and in demand so it wasn’t hard to get rid of, and we sold it to our cousin at a market rate.
I went back and read the article, and I found myself really angry at all of the famous people for disinheriting their kids. I think that is insulting, so I guess in my family, there are expectations that you leave your kids money, if you can, and even better would be to leave something for the grandchildren. I think it's lousy to bring kids into the world or your life and then tell them, okay, you're on your own--go make your way--especially after you have given them an odd, non-normative lifestyle of great privilege. Sting has 400 million and can't leave anything to his kids? That is terrible stewardship.
iris lilies
2-29-20, 8:56am
Tybee, you are right that the “ non normative” life of great privilege can be a kick in the balls with no money to continue it.
Maybe Sting had regular discussions with his children about this issue, Discussions that guided them in their future vision of how Much they will get. Ha Hah Hah Hah Hah not likely.
Edit to add: I did read the article and
Sting seems upfront with the idea that they are spending their money now while he is alive and the kids benefit from that. For all we know maybe he’s handing them money and they could be investing and saving it now, but that is unlikely. If saving habits are not modeled by parents kids don’t know how to do that.
I like with Gordon Ramsay said about his kids —they do not ride in first class with him because they haven’t worked hard to earn it. That is funny.
I’ve told my dad many times that he can do whatever he wants with his stuff - it’s his, not mine. He, on the other hand, worries a lot about how to make it fair.
So a year ago he signed over about 80 acres of farmland to each of his 4 kids. We have a verbal agreement that we will rent it to our one brother who is a farmer, as the rest of us have long ago moved away. When my farmer brother reaches age 72 we can then do as we like with the land. This was my dad’s way of ensuring that it was fair before he died.
His lawyer was aghast. “You can’t enforce that verbal agreement!” My dad said, “I trust my kids”.
So far it’s working out great.
I’ve never seen it done this way before. Time will tell.
Well, I begged Mom to spend every dime. She told me if I didn't want it, to give it away. She left each of 6 kids $30k. So, I paid the taxes, spent it on adult grandkids flying up to ski/snowboard in the winter for several years, gave a chunk to my sister's church for the music ministry.
Mom was never going to be the person who died broke even though she lived on a small fixed income. i was amazed she had that sizable asset.
We don't have kids. We have a trust-so only recipients will know what happens to our assets. A majority goes to local 'causes'.
My parents' assets were divided fairly according to their will upon their passing. My brother handled the executor role as I had declined to be executor but agreed to be power of attorney for personal care.
Upon my DH's passing I gave each daughter a large lump sum and said the rest is mine to do with as I wish in my lifetime. Any balance after my passing goes to them equally according to my will.
Teacher Terry
2-29-20, 11:26am
My mom spent her money traveling and we were all glad she did. If we die with the house that will be split 5 ways. I hop to have spent the rest traveling. I don’t think kids are owed anything. Many wealthy people are leaving their kids some but the majority to charities like Bill Gates.
Given that my father died yesterday, this is freshly on my mind. One of my brothers, the one who was given the most, has a grievance that he's owed my parents money. My dad went and wrote my sister and I a letter (as we are co executors) outlining a number of financial gifts that my older brother got that we didn't knew about. My father was concerned that his son was going to cry poor house (and he is) and warned us not to listen to his half truths and fabrications. In the will, I get $20K first before the estate is divided up among us 4, because I was the only one who never took any financial outpatient assistance. At first I was uncomfortable with this, but now as I understand how much money my sibling s got, I'm at peace with it. Even the $20k is only a small fraction of what my siblings got through direct and indirect means (Dad gave my brother 10 years free rent for example).
That said, the money first flows to my mother, who has dementia. At the point where she realizes she either needs to move or hire caregivers, I want to hire good quality caregivers, and have all the house equity be spent that way so there's nothing left to split up. In 2 years, my dad's estate will be getting a large balloon payment for a business he sold and I expect we will have to go through all of this again at that point.
Given that my father died yesterday, this is freshly on my mind. One of my brothers, the one who was given the most, has a grievance that he's owed my parents money. My dad went and wrote my sister and I a letter (as we are co executors) outlining a number of financial gifts that my older brother got that we didn't knew about. My father was concerned that his son was going to cry poor house (and he is) and warned us not to listen to his half truths and fabrications. In the will, I get $20K first before the estate is divided up among us 4, because I was the only one who never took any financial outpatient assistance. At first I was uncomfortable with this, but now as I understand how much money my sibling s got, I'm at peace with it. Even the $20k is only a small fraction of what my siblings got through direct and indirect means (Dad gave my brother 10 years free rent for example).
That said, the money first flows to my mother, who has dementia. At the point where she realizes she either needs to move or hire caregivers, I want to hire good quality caregivers, and have all the house equity be spent that way so there's nothing left to split up. In 2 years, my dad's estate will be getting a large balloon payment for a business he sold and I expect we will have to go through all of this again at that point.
Oh, herbgeek, please accept my condolences on the loss of your dad.
Teacher Terry
2-29-20, 1:04pm
Herb, I am so sorry for your loss. Glad that there is money to take care of your mom.
rosarugosa
2-29-20, 2:47pm
I'm so sorry about your dad, Herbgeek.
Herb, sorry for your loss.
Thank you all on the condolences. Its been a slog for the last couple of months juggling our lives to provide care. Still up in the air what to do about Mom. Mom is saying at this moment she wants to stay in the house, and my sister is advocating for doing that. I think Mom would be better off in a facility where someone could make sure she showers, and doesn't leave food out for days and would have other people to talk to.
Simplemind
2-29-20, 4:10pm
I'm with you herbgeek. My siblings wanted dad to stay home, dad wanted to stay home but none of them understood what that was going to mean. I had to make the hard decisions and that included moving dad after attempting to patchwork assistance for him. Nobody (except me) could get out there every day or stay very long. He wasn't taking care of himself or the property. Things were beginning to disappear. Once we moved him he was no longer isolated and it was easier to make sure he had good care. His depression lifted. It was a huge relief and although those years were brief I look back on them fondly. We loved where he was and visiting was a joy instead of having to work on all domestic chores that needed to be done. I could be a daughter instead of a caregiver, housekeeper, chauffer, landscaper, cook, landlord, etc. I always dreaded visiting him at home because I knew he needed to be moved. Each time I had to do a quick inventory to see if things were gone. I also could see the eventual job of cleaning and liquidating everything and it was overwhelming and I left feeling totally depressed and anxious.
iris lilies
2-29-20, 5:07pm
My general observation about senior citizens at the level of some fragility is that the ones most competent at decision making give up their house for a simpler abode, while the ones least competent hang onto the family home with their fingernails dug in.
Yes, this is a generalization, but it is what I see.
our friends who are in their early 80’s gave up their large, showplace homes for condos. They are very active in our neighborhood and they travel outside of the United States, one couple multiple times a year, the other woman once a year.
They know their limits, they know how to keep active and involved in life.
Others in our neighborhood downsized in creative ways in their mid 60’s, again giving up large victorian showplaces, to ready themselves for the next 25-35 years of their lives.
My condolences Herbgeek. As the parent I am trying to make the transition between now and my passing (in 20+ years or more) as painless as possible. I have tried to ensure that whatever money or benefit I do for one, I do for the other at all times. It is the inequities that create problems later.
Teacher Terry
2-29-20, 8:27pm
Once someone has dementia and their spouse dies they need to be in a facility. My mom was sharp but fighting cancer in her apartment. We all lived out of town but still helped. She was not safe but was willing to take the risk and we totally agreed. Nothing worse then being in a facility with your mind intact unless you can afford a expensive assisted living facility. A week before she died she fell and forgot to put her cellphone in her pocket so laid for 24 hours until her sister found her. She went to hospice and died a week later. I didn’t mind using all my vacation and sick leave to fly out when she needed me. My siblings were closer and retired. We are happy she did it her way.
My condolences, Herbgeek.
I think IL's analysis is usually correct. Those who have foresight will accept that they will decline at some point and plan for it. We had to wait till bones were broken to get MIL into assisted living - she tripped over an ottoman and broke her wrist. But had that not happened, she would have never conceded it was time. The irony is that being a social person, she is enjoying all the company at the facility over being isolated and alone. In the meantime, it appears that any inheritance she has left will probably be squabbled over by DH's siblings. We removed ourselves from the fray by moving away...at least for the time being.
ToomuchStuff
3-1-20, 1:10am
Without going to a clickbait article, I would have to rely on those I would know with money. Money that drove a wedge in some cases, before the thought of having to deal with an inheritance.
But you also mention the fact the article is about famous people. Well, besides inheritance, they offer connection and potential influence, which can also be problematic or beneficial. Beneficial example: A friends kid, when they went to college, was given a full ride scholarship, when the friend had the money to pay in full for the schooling. When they took the job they have now, in an effort to have a family, their parents bought them a house, close to where they have theirs. The kid asked to work for a $xxK range, because they didn't have all the expenses that others would. They were forced to take $xxxK as salary. Problematic example: There are those that will use friends or relatives of those rich, famous or both, in an effort to obtain something (typically money), from their connections. There are famous examples that you can find, I am not going into.
So money is NOT the only thing of value that the clickbait article should cover. Even their property will have some value, that will not be taxed or considered until it is sold.
Money isn't the only thing you leave behind, you leave behind values, stories, memories, etc.
herbgeek - I'm so sorry for your loss. Both for your father's death and your mother's dementia. Sending virtual hugs.
Teacher Terry
3-1-20, 12:05pm
Tybee, couldn’t you buy your parent’s house by selling yours and using your part of the inheritance?
ApatheticNoMore
3-1-20, 12:20pm
Oh man, this is a really sore subject right now. I am not sure what my attitude is, except maybe there is no such thing as an inheritance until someone dies, which should be obvious, but is not to my brother, who views my parents' money as "his inheritance" and I think that is really problematic. It means, for example, my mom can't do what she has wanted for 25 years, to leave me her house. So this great house goes out of the family because it would come "out of his inheritance."
Both my parents inherited from their families. My dad used his to put his kids through college. Mom kept hers separate and plans to leave it to her kids in her will, unless my brother manages to take over all her property.
Yea I hear you Tybee, what has any of this moralizing about inheritances and how they are bad got to do with actual reality? I'm really bitter about reality too.
See my sibling will have spent any inheritance I could possibly get before my mom dies I think, and why, why should they get it all? Because inheritances that are technically inheritances are bad (i.e. anything *I* might get), but it's perfectly ok for one person to leech off another all their life before they are even dead, to STEAL from them if one is more honest about it, because at least it's not an inheritance because they didn't wait until then?
Frankly at this point I will COUNT MYSELF LUCKY if I inherit nothing but owe nothing when all is said and done - and I mean it too! As it is I think I might have to bail out mom, but I can't without impoverishing myself!!! And this is because of said sibling. And I think I might have to support my sibling because F ups like that have no path but homelessness, but I can't!!! I'm not rich, what part of I'm not rich don't people get :) And mom has inherited like several inheritances (her parents, all the money my dad saved throughout his life, my dad's sister and her husbands) LITERALLY generations worth of inheritances, that my sibling gets to spend on complete and utter crap while my mom worries about money all the time, but it would be oh so BAD if I got anything, because I might not appreciate it or something? My heavens.
Just to be clear - You should have no part in bailing either of them out. There are social systems in place which they can use if it comes to that.
Teacher Terry
3-1-20, 12:53pm
I wouldn’t bail either of them out. Help them sign up for social services.
I wouldn’t bail either of them out. Help them sign up for social services.
Oh, boy, this calls for an update on BIL. DH and I were in the movie theater here about 6 weeks ago when I saw a text from BILs friend who lives near him in San Diego. Freaking out, I left the theatre to call him back: turns out he was in the hospital. He had been feeling very weak and fatigued, and had edema in his legs. His friend told him to go the ER, which he did. Turns out his blood pressure was through the roof.
Long story short, he was put on about 3 antihypertensives and an anti-platelet and released. He has no health insurance. His friend, "CC," suggested that San Diego is killing him and he should return to New Jersey. "CC" was going to let BIL stay with him until arrangements for return to NJ were completed.
Well, he doesn't know BIL very well. It's 6 weeks later and CC and his wife are leaving very clear hints about BIL leaving their house. BIL has done nothing. No job search, no attempts to follow up with health insurance, no moving back to NJ plans. He has about half of the money left from the pot he brought to San Diego last April. Meanwhile he won't take his antihypertensives because they're too expensive. The cardiologist told him his blood pressure is too high, still above 180 systolic.
This is what I see in my crystal ball. He stays in San Diego, moving back to the cheap housing he had, but continuing to drink and smoke. He doesn't take his meds, and by the time he runs out of money, he's in a sheer panic and has a major cardiac event. The alternative scenario? I don't know.
So, as ANM suggested, this is what a lifetime of enabling does to a person. Whether enabling while alive or when dead by means of an inheritance, both are bad news. And it certainly muddies the waters of "fairness"
Teacher Terry
3-1-20, 1:55pm
With BP that high untreated he likely will have a big stroke and either be severally disabled or dead. Ugh!
Catherine, the crystal ball is not showing him parking on your doorstep when CC puts him on the plane, is it?
iris lilies
3-1-20, 7:23pm
I cannot imagine why anyone who deals with Catherine’s BIL thinks “hints” will spur hi to action.
dado potato
3-2-20, 1:37am
My dear wife and I like the idea of "giving with the living hand", and the second-to-die dying broke. Single Premium Immediate Annuities will be useful in arranging to die broke.
Treating offspring alike in wills is simple, and I think equal treatment is less likely to cause resentment. Still and all, some people have an infinite capacity to find an infinite number of things to resent. We are up-front with our adult children about the living hand and dying broke. I would be very surprised if any of the kids looked upon Mummy and Daddy as their "retirement plan unaware". We keep them advised of the contributions were are making each year to their children's "529 College Savings Plans".
Teacher Terry
3-2-20, 12:34pm
We helped our kids when they were young and needed it just like our parents did for us.
My parents had a Trust written up in 2008 and I was made Trustee. I knew what my duties would be (aauugghhhh) but didn't know what the money situation was. As my mother loved to tell me, it was none of my G*d damned business. Even when I asked what they would want for living or funeral arrangements in the future, I got that same response. My dad started gifting the three of us 15K a year in 2012. Partially because my mom had died (and would have never let go of a penny while there was a breath in her body) and partially because his financial advisor suggested it was a good move tax wise for the future.
Within a few years I was in charge of dispersing it due to my dad's increasing dementia. Thanks to the Trust I could not be accused with draining his money for our gain because his advisor had already set it up and we were following what had been established by my dad. My brother wanted to bump it up because.... well because I could. I told them him no because we had no idea how long dad would live and how much dementia care was going to cost. That and eventually how much I needed to spend to get the house in shape to qualify for a loan.
I made it my mission in life to squeak out (recover) as much money out of that estate as possible. It was a huge amount of work and sometimes my siblings were not happy with my method (only the three kids could have property, if grandkids wanted something it had to be through their parent. If you wanted something the three of us had to agree on what it was worth and then you paid that amount to the estate. This stopped the idea that you could back your truck up to the house and fill it or low ball what an item was worth) but after all was said and done, everything was equal between us, there were no fights and we are closer than we ever were when our parents were alive. My brother recently thanked me because his wife's siblings are bleeding her folks dry and walking off with property. He can see now how unfair that is to the kids that don't take advantage.
I felt lucky that I was able to liquidate everything before my dad died because my heart wouldn't have been in it after he was gone. It took about three years but I was able to show him the final balance and tell him he should be proud of his legacy. He started with nothing and made a wonderful life for all of us. We pampered him with his money in his final years. He lived in a wonderful adult care home (huge house, only five clients) five minutes from me. I even paid $500 a month for him to have his cat. They ended up loving the cat after a year and said we didn't have to pay anymore. One of us was with him almost every evening to take him out to his favorite restaurants. He was loved and cared for and my hard earned inheritance makes me feel a bit of the same. That said, if he wanted to leave it all to a charity (fat chance with those two ;)) that would have been OK by me too. It was never my money as I didn't earn a penny of it. As Trustee with all the labor that entailed.... very underpaid for the toll that took. Thank God I'll never have to do that again. Our kids won't have to do it for us either, we've seen to that.
Great story, Simplemind. Your dad and your siblings were/are lucky to have you.
iris lilies
3-2-20, 2:48pm
You did good works there, Simplemind.
Teacher Terry
3-2-20, 3:00pm
Sounds like you also had great quality time with your dad which is great. Settling a estate is a lot of work.
Simplemind
3-2-20, 11:30pm
He was a total character Teacher Terry. Mom got the big Catholic service and reception but dad said when his time came he wanted nothing. He told me he wanted me to sprinkle his ashes out the car window on the way home. So he got the nice obit that I had fun writing. Really only the tip of the iceberg for him but I know he would have gotten a kick out of it.
https://obits.oregonlive.com/obituaries/oregon/obituary.aspx?pid=188454211
What an absolutely beautiful obit. What an amazing spirit.
That is a wonderful tribute!
He was a total character Teacher Terry. Mom got the big Catholic service and reception but dad said when his time came he wanted nothing. He told me he wanted me to sprinkle his ashes out the car window on the way home. So he got the nice obit that I had fun writing. Really only the tip of the iceberg for him but I know he would have gotten a kick out of it.
https://obits.oregonlive.com/obituaries/oregon/obituary.aspx?pid=188454211
Love it!!!! Thanks for sharing this.
iris lilies
3-3-20, 7:30am
Simplemind, your dad was a great guy, but you are a great writer! Kudos!
It is lovely when the deceased have professional writers do their obituaries. My cousin, a journalist and PR guy, wrote his father’s obit and it was very nice although he didn’t have the material you had to work with.
.
Teacher Terry
3-3-20, 12:43pm
Wow, what a great tribute! I also had a wonderful dad that spent lots of time with us kids. He also had many sayings including the bedtime in the swamp:))
OK TT, now our similarities are really freaking me out !!
And Marie Osmond has announced that her children will receive ZERO $.
Teacher Terry
3-4-20, 12:26am
SM, your post about your dad made me cry. No one has ever used that saying and he took me hunting for pheasants and rabbits which we ate. When I go home and get together with my childhood friends they all reminisce because he drove us everywhere and all had us singing songs from the 1940’s. He has been gone 30 years but not forgotten. As a teenager I told him all my problems. Your dad and mine one of a kind.
TT we inherited a lifetime of special experiences with our dads that money could never buy. My dad also loved to sing and had a great voice. He was always my soft place to land as I had a rather fractious relationship with my mom. He taught me all the important skills in life for which I will be forever grateful. I miss him terribly. Now I must know the origins of that saying!!
iris lilies
3-4-20, 7:49am
Let’s hear it for our dads! I loved mine, too! He wasn’t the big character that your dads were (sounds like) but bits of zany came out now and then.
I married my father. DH is VERY similar in temperament.
I married my father.
Me, too. When my mother saw DH for the first time she said she almost fainted. Aside from the resemblance, he has a lot of my dad's characteristics.
Simplemind, I also fully enjoyed your dad's obituary. A wonderful window into his soul, and his impact on your family.
As for the cheers for the dads, I got a lot from both of mine (even though both were alcoholics--my stepfather was in recovery for my high school years). My dad was a sensitive soul, an artist, a performer, a philosopher, a perfectionist. My stepdad was my family's savior, simply by showing up. Being there, going to work, coming home, being engaged with us kids, providing spontaneous fun and emotional support if we wanted it.
Teacher Terry
3-4-20, 12:43pm
Actually not one person in my immediate family could sing. It didn’t matter and he would sing loudly and assign everyone a part. My dad never met a stranger and talked to everyone. My mom and I were very close but she was more shy and reserved. I am like my dad.
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