View Full Version : What would it take?
gimmethesimplelife
5-1-20, 11:49am
If anything, to make you feel comfortable flying? Rob
Bigger seats? more legroom? A glass of white wine? Maybe a valium.
ApatheticNoMore
5-1-20, 11:56am
solar powered planes :)
But if I was inclined to fly anyway a vaccine or an effective treatment.
Teacher Terry
5-1-20, 12:57pm
A Valium washed down with a glass of wine:)). Probably a effective vaccine.
For the short term, not filling middle seats, and requiring masks for passengers and crew. Once things settle down and under control, let's say sometime early to mid-2021, as long as there were no significant outbreaks, I wouldn't mind flying on a crowded plane. I love flying.
If I HAD to fly tomorrow, I'm sure I could get a whole row on both sides of the aisle to myself, so it wouldn't bother me. I'd have gotten the glass of wine anyway :)
early morning
5-1-20, 1:34pm
2 to 3 seater, preferably open cockpit, with my brother as pilot, lol. But a vaccine would also be a plus.
The last time I got sick with a nasty cold was shortly after a flight. The person behind was coughing incessantly, and I was the lucky recipient of the "spray".
Not anytime soon! Yes, a double layer cloth homemade mask would have prevented the spray from going over the seat and all over me. Think I'm wrong? Put one off and cough cough cough. Take the mask off and check for fluid on the inside vs the outside.
invisibleflash
5-1-20, 2:37pm
I'm done with flying unless the virus is wiped out 100%. You are packed like rats on a plane. I'm old with bad lungs so don't need to press my luck.
If I need to travel in the USA I'll do it via my little camper and urban boondock away from others. Many times I've been sick after a flight, breathing all the recycled germs. Now it can be deadly.
I won't be flying commercially until things are more settled down.
I'd like to see:
- effective covid screening
- effective covid treatment
- the next wave or two to pass so people learn how to behave
- ideally a vaccine
- border controls relaxed - most of the places I need to fly are in Europe, and that's not really happening now
I'm perfectly comfortable flying with full PPE on, I'd just prefer not to, and want to make sure wherever I am travelling to is actually up-and-running, and that I'll be allowed in/out.
I can't think of anything that would make flying "comfortable." Even if I were fully vaccinated, flying is anything but comfortable. Maybe with door-to-door concierge delivery to the airport and a first-class seat. Or a private plane.
I can't think of anything that would make flying "comfortable." Even if I were fully vaccinated, flying is anything but comfortable. Maybe with door-to-door concierge delivery to the airport and a first-class seat. Or a private plane.
When I fly now, it has to be Iceland Air, because they gave me a bazillion Saga Miles a while ago for helping out on a horrid day with some in-flight medical events, and now I fly free, in "Saga Class", which is about as first-class as the Icelanders manage - comfortable but not stupid-luxurious.
Private plane or helicopter.
I love to fly. Holding tickets to Boston for September that I'm going to have to get a refund for. I am going to have to take a wait see before I get on again. DH gets sick every time we fly and I don't see us doing it without masks and sanitizer.
I don’t like flying anyway. Last time I flew was 2015. Much prefer driving. I’ve driven 2 days each way multiple times to avoid flying. The drives are fabulous sight seeing. So much pretty country.
gimmethesimplelife
5-2-20, 12:09pm
I don’t like flying anyway. Last time I flew was 2015. Much prefer driving. I’ve driven 2 days each way multiple times to avoid flying. The drives are fabulous sight seeing. So much pretty country.A hunch of mine, Tradd, is that for those who can afford them post Covid-19, road trips are going to become much more popular. Especially if gas stays cheap for awhile. Rob
A hunch of mine, Tradd, is that for those who can afford them post Covid-19, road trips are going to become much more popular. Especially if gas stays cheap for awhile. Rob
It's a crap shoot. A 2 hour flight is 2d driving. 450 miles is about my max. So a lot of bathroom stops, hotel rooms, some eateries....that is a lot of exposure to who knows what/who knows where as opposed to the flight. And no, I'm not considering flights this year.
We're opening up states without a decline in cases anywhere! So anyone who doesn't believe in the 2nd wave.......well.....I'll stop there. And I'll be wearing my mask!
https://scontent.fboi1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s851x315/95263549_10158024501520726_3459212483204481024_n.j pg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=p2L38d9Z7ekAX-aN5dr&_nc_ht=scontent.fboi1-1.fna&_nc_tp=7&oh=12e9c52a1fef1dba553f68d7c3aab367&oe=5ED1FF95
https://scontent.fboi1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s851x315/95698970_10158024499305726_3034409087707119616_n.j pg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=D_F71DfA5ooAX9RPbPB&_nc_ht=scontent.fboi1-1.fna&_nc_tp=7&oh=3b95d5d7f98eff0e7bf606fd872c1602&oe=5ED47C5E
A hunch of mine, Tradd, is that for those who can afford them post Covid-19, road trips are going to become much more popular. Especially if gas stays cheap for awhile. RobWe've been doing road trips exclusively for the past 10 years or so. Our next trip was supposed to be a 6 to 8 week trip through the Dakotas, Wyoming, Montana and perhaps Idaho with our camper. We're holding off on that one until things start opening up a little more but I suspect we'll leave in mid June. Other than trips outside this continent, I don't see the need to ever fly again.
Gardnr... I'm interested in hearing your perspectives on the following situation:
I volunteered to manage the Master Gardener volunteers who provide support for the gardens around a local community hall. So, I arranged to have 3 of us meet today for clean-up/cut-backs, etc. I knew that one of the 4 volunteers is an immunology/allergy physician with a practice in Burlington.
So I packed up my stuff which included 2 masks (my main one and a back-up). We happened to pull up to the site at the same time. She emerged not wearing a mask. I didn't take mine out. We kept a good distance from each other while we talked and pruned and weeded. I brought up the mask thing and she said she had one but she had waited to see what I did. She said she felt comfortable in that we are outside and keeping distance from each other.
What do you think? Was that risky?
iris lilies
5-2-20, 12:37pm
I am not ready to give up one or two final trips to Europe or Asia, but I don’t want to fly now or in near future. And god I hate car trips, driving more than 6 hours was a big nope. But something will have to give.
I actually love car trips. One of my favorite memories is a car trip with my daughter from Houston, TX to NJ. We kept it semi-scheduled with spontaneous trips along the way. We bonded, we fought over the music, and we discovered so many awesome things.
Sometimes when I am coming back from a long stressful business trip I actually have to suppress urges to take my car out of the airport parking lot and just hit the highway to Destination Nowhere. It's kind of weird, but just driving along enjoying the scenery is so calming.
Teacher Terry
5-2-20, 12:44pm
I am with you IL and want to do the month trip to 5 countries in Europe. Hoping for August 2021. We had such cheap tickets and I bet prices will double. 2 years ago we did a month trip to visit all our friends and family between Nevada and Minnesota. It was 4K miles and it was fun but I don’t see wanting to drive that much again.
frugal-one
5-2-20, 12:53pm
I am not ready to give up one or two final trips to Europe or Asia, but I don’t want to fly now or in near future. And god I hate car trips, driving more than 6 hours was a big nope. But something will have to give.
I'm with you!!! I hate car trips of long distances!! I'd MUCH rather fly, rent a car and see everything in that location(s) and stay longer versus wasting days driving.
iris lilies
5-2-20, 1:28pm
I'm with you!!! I hate car trips of long distances!! I'd MUCH rather fly, rent a car and see everything in that location(s) and stay longer versus wasting days driving.
yes. In 2017 we took two vacations, one fabulous one to Prague and Romania, another one, a crappy one, to
las Cruces, NM. While the flying is never fun at least you get someplace interesting.
For the Las Cruces trip we drove for two+ days each way. It was not a fun trip. I remember eating Thanksgiving dinner at an Indian restaurant that was not very good someplace in Oklahoma. Oh yeah and we somehow ended up on a toll road in Oklahoma that actually stopped. We had to stop ...or maybe we drove thru it???...because there was no way to pay the toll, because it was Thanksgiving. We didn’t have change.what a shitshow that was. Cars behind us did same thing...
And then Cruces was, well, Cruces. Charming in its own way, but it immediately reminded me why I left. And then, it was crappy hot weather in late November, too hot to leave our dog in the car, so we had to scramble for special accommodations because he cannot be left in a hotel room alone. So we luckily found a cute casita on Air bnB. But yes, overall, a shitshow.
iris lilies
5-2-20, 1:41pm
I actually love car trips. One of my favorite memories is a car trip with my daughter from Houston, TX to NJ. We kept it semi-scheduled with spontaneous trips along the way. We bonded, we fought over the music, and we discovered so many awesome things.
Sometimes when I am coming back from a long stressful business trip I actually have to suppress urges to take my car out of the airport parking lot and just hit the highway to Destination Nowhere. It's kind of weird, but just driving along enjoying the scenery is so calming.
yes, there are people who like a long drive and people who do not. The driving people vs the “just get there!” People.
I remember clearly my first few events with DH’s family. They tell many stories about driving to Florida. It was also an often told tale about driving to Oregon. There was absolutely nothing memorable in these stories in my mind. I was interested in what they did when they got to Florida. What did they do when they got to Oregon? But they never talked about that, it was always the driving, driving, driving.
I love my new red car, but I am almost as happy to look at it parked as
i am to drive it.
I had to cancel our flight to see grand-twins and received the $500 credit towards a future flight. Thinking that I have no interest in flying anymore though unless there is a funeral or family emergency. Miles and miles of TX is not a fun road trip however. The word grueling comes to mind.
yes, there are people who like a long drive and people who do not. The driving people vs the “just get there!” People.
I remember clearly my first few events with DH’s family. They tell many stories about driving to Florida. It was also an often told tale about driving to Oregon. There was absolutely nothing memorable in these stories in my mind. I was interested in what they did when they got to Florida. What did they do when they got to Oregon? But they never talked about that, it was always the driving, driving, driving.
I love my new red car, but I am almost as happy to look at it parked as
i am to drive it.
Here's a picture of my DD and I on that road trip I spoke of. We went to Hope, AK to check out Bill's hometown. It was a town decimated by the highway and Walmart. Tumbleweed literally rolling down Main Street. There was an abandoned storefront with a mirrored window so we took a picture of our reflections, and you can see the railroad station in the background.
These are things that you don't find in guide books, but they are fascinating.
3188
My favourite driving was with DH when we looked for a camplng spot wherever the tank of gas for the day ran out. We were heading downeast through the NE states and made some wonderful discoveries.Also did this when touring around the Maritimes.
When he wanted to get from a long distance point A to point B, it was an ordeal.
Here's a picture of my DD and I on that road trip I spoke of. We went to Hope, AK to check out Bill's hometown. It was a town decimated by the highway and Walmart. Tumbleweed literally rolling down Main Street. There was an abandoned storefront with a mirrored window so we took a picture of our reflections, and you can see the railroad station in the background.
These are things that you don't find in guide books, but they are fascinating.
3188
What a great picture!
Gardnr... I'm interested in hearing your perspectives on the following situation:
I volunteered to manage the Master Gardener volunteers who provide support for the gardens around a local community hall. So, I arranged to have 3 of us meet today for clean-up/cut-backs, etc. I knew that one of the 4 volunteers is an immunology/allergy physician with a practice in Burlington.
So I packed up my stuff which included 2 masks (my main one and a back-up). We happened to pull up to the site at the same time. She emerged not wearing a mask. I didn't take mine out. We kept a good distance from each other while we talked and pruned and weeded. I brought up the mask thing and she said she had one but she had waited to see what I did. She said she felt comfortable in that we are outside and keeping distance from each other.
What do you think? Was that risky?
When a minimum 6 feet distance is kept it is relatively safe. I assume you didn't share tools, didn't cross paths.
I wish our country was able to get testing ramped up! Asymptomatic carriers are concerning.
I’ve got friends that love flying and I’ve got friends that love long road trips. I don’t really enjoy either. Like Iris, I enjoy being someplace else. Getting their is the headache I endure for the joy of being there. But for the foreseeable future I obviously won’t be going anywhere since it’s become clear that the country has decided that the herd immunity mode is the one we’re going to follow.
I’ve got friends that love flying and I’ve got friends that love long road trips. I don’t really enjoy either. Like Iris, I enjoy being someplace else. Getting their is the headache I endure for the joy of being there. But for the foreseeable future I obviously won’t be going anywhere since it’s become clear that the country has decided that the herd immunity mode is the one we’re going to follow.
I enjoy relatively short road trips--Portland to Seattle is about right--but I'm with those who think the getting there is mostly a bother.
I also dread the actual 'traveling' part of traveling but love to explore new places.
My parents live 1800 miles from us and we have a trip booked to see them in late June. I'm expecting we will have to cancel. I have pondered making it a roadtrip, but none of us enjoys the roadtrip to see my mother-in-law which is less than a third of that distance. We only see my parents once/year and they both have chronic health conditions. I was awake ruminating on this last night. I don't want to never see them again, but traveling there, then self-isolating there for 2 weeks so that we couldn't transmit anything to them would be impossible time- and money-wise.
I "saw" my dad yesterday when I got them connected through Hangouts. It really is not a substitute, and perhaps made the distance more painful. I could tell he was very happy to see us, though, so we'll use that until things resolve.
I am always comfortable when I fly and have no problem, even on the many 12 hour long flights that I have made to New Zealand.
I am always comfortable when I fly and have no problem, even on the many 12 hour long flights that I have made to New Zealand.
Me, too, Lon! (Although on those long 12-hour flights, business class makes it MUCH nicer!
I hate flying commercial, but I also hate anything much longer than a five hour road trip. I don’t have any trips planned soon, but if I needed to fly commercially I would.
I LOVE LOVE LOVE flying. Car trips? I'm done at about 3 hours. 3h in a plane is a whole lotta miles!
For all of you that actually like flying, what is it exactly that you like? Help me understand because for the life of me I can’t think of much of anything about the current flying experience that I enjoy, other than that moment when I’m walking out of the airport after it is over.
can’t think of much of anything about the current flying experience that I enjoy
I'm right there with you jp. There's the annoying queueing before venturing onto the jetway. There's the people that try to bring on too much/too large luggage and bump me going down the aisle or struggle to put it in the overhead, stopping the boarding process. There's inevitably someone manspreading next to me and encroaching on my space. There's the loud chewing/smacking noises, people watching media on their devices without headphones and people with too much cologne or ones that brought overly fragrant food on board (here's looking at you tunafish sandwich). Once in a while a kid kicking my seat but more often its an adult constantly shifting in their seat and grabbing the back of my seat as they do so.
I just don't like humanity so close up.
For all of you that actually like flying, what is it exactly that you like? Help me understand because for the life of me I can’t think of much of anything about the current flying experience that I enjoy, other than that moment when I’m walking out of the airport after it is over.
My big disclaimer to what I'm about to say is that being a frequent flier, I have TSA pre-check, priority status for boarding, and a membership at a very comfortable airline club. All of that is almost a pre-requisite for enjoying airline travel, I'll admit it. But that said...
First of all, I love airports--they buzz with an energy level like NYC. Everyone is going somewhere and everyone has a story, which makes airports a very romantic place to be. There are places to eat and places to window shop and places to people-watch. And there's your own anticipation and excitement about your trip.
On the plane, you are experiencing a miracle of technology. You climb up above the clouds and you have left all of your cares and responsibilities 30,000 feet below. You don't have to say to yourself, "I should do the dishes." or "I should mow the lawn" or "I should get a work-out in." Now you're saying, "Hmm, should I spend the next couple of hours reading a book or sleeping?" Gee, what a hard choice. As for the other passengers, there are some annoying people, but most people have the good graces not to bother you and the ones who do talk I've found to be pleasant and polite.
And then you can look down and see how small we really are. It's a very humbling experience.
As Louis C.K. said it so well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_Txjv30XDU
iris lilies
5-4-20, 9:50am
Catherine, yes! I loved that Louis CK clip. I miss him.
But that doesn’t make me love flying on a plane. Once the plane takes off I sometimes sorta enjoy it, but it takes so much time to drive to airport, check in, sit around, board, sit around, and deplane, get baggage, find transportation, etc. it needs to be a big trip for me to do that.
That Louis CK clip is priceless!
For all of you that actually like flying, what is it exactly that you like? Help me understand because for the life of me I can’t think of much of anything about the current flying experience that I enjoy, other than that moment when I’m walking out of the airport after it is over.
I love flying my own plane, the view and speed is great. Nothing like flying down to Key West with friends for lunch, it’s a hour trip in the plane, 5 hours by car.
flying commercially it’s all about getting there fast. I hate long driving trips, to much of my life wasted on the interstate.
I love flying my own plane, the view and speed is great. Nothing like flying down to Key West with friends for lunch, it’s a hour trip in the plane, 5 hours by car.
If only my plane trips could be like that I would most definitely have a different opinion of flying!
Teacher Terry
5-4-20, 1:13pm
I liked to fly in the old days when seats were bigger and the service was good. Now it’s just a cattle call. The smallest plane I was in had 20 passenger seats. My step son is a pilot in the military and I have never been in a plane with him. Scared to death of small planes.
In the old days, one did not need all the security checks, the seats were larger and the whole trip took less time. Today, I need to leave for the airport really early to allow for heavy traffic to the airport, the long lineup for checking in, the checking in and waiting for the plane, waiting for people with extra large bags or parcels or heavy winter coats taking over the overhead lockers clogging the narrow aisles, crammed seats and the reverse when returning.
That said, the magic of flying has not left me. It does seem miraculous to leave Toronto and 6 hours later arrive in the UK or Paris. The magic is a little harder to sustain to Japan though which is a very long flight in both directions. I won't attempt Australia or NZ.
I took a prop jet (maybe?) from Portland to the Redmond, OR airport once, and honestly--it sounded like it was powered by tightly-wound rubber bands. It's capacity may have been about 20 souls, or less. Honestly, I preferred it to the flying cattle cars you speak of.
The most memorable flight I took, from an enjoyment perspective, was a tiny prop plane from Grenada to a neighboring island. There were six (I think) passenger seats and the pilot. Being able to watch the pilot, and out the windshield of the plane as we landed was incredible!
The most memorable flight I took, from an enjoyment perspective, was a tiny prop plane from Grenada to a neighboring island. There were six (I think) passenger seats and the pilot. Being able to watch the pilot, and out the windshield of the plane as we landed was incredible!
During my corporate security days I had the opportunity to travel on corporate jets quite often. My very first corporate flight was on a Falcon 900EX, laid out for 18 passengers but with me being the only one. It was a return trip home and the flight crew invited me to ride in the jump seat in the cockpit and a diversion flyover of my neighborhood before landing.
After dozens and dozens of those flights I now find Delta Coach to be completely unacceptable, therefore I no longer fly. ;)
iris lilies
5-4-20, 3:59pm
The most memorable flight I took, from an enjoyment perspective, was a tiny prop plane from Grenada to a neighboring island. There were six (I think) passenger seats and the pilot. Being able to watch the pilot, and out the windshield of the plane as we landed was incredible!
”...tiny prop plane...”
shoot me now, before I ever have to be scared out of my wits being in such a small flying machine.
”...tiny prop plane...”
shoot me now, before I ever have to be scared out of my wits being in such a small flying machine.
I guess skydiving is also out for you. Not quite as tiny of a plane but the flying seemed even more real since the whole ten minutes I was in the plane was with the big cargo door wide open!
As much as I do enjoy flying on little planes like that I'm not sure I want to be this guy... (skip to about 4:30 for when the action starts.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqdtz3tJkbY
iris lilies
5-4-20, 5:32pm
I guess skydiving is also out for you. Not quite as tiny of a plane but the flying seemed even more real since the whole ten minutes I was in the plane was with the big cargo door wide open!
As much as I do enjoy flying on little planes like that I'm not sure I want to be this guy... (skip to about 4:30 for when the action starts.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqdtz3tJkbYno
i aint watchin that. Nosiree.
no
i aint watchin that. Nosiree.
Maybe you'd prefer this video of a repair worker climbing the world's tallest radio transmission tower: :~)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INbKYq0G9nU
What I hate about flying:
*The long walk through the airport my that make my knees VERY unhappy.
*TSA BS
*Being squished with the unwashed masses in coach (sorry, it's called economy now). I ALWAYS made sure to get an aisle seat so I could get up to use the bathroom without crawling over anyone. The idiots who reclined their seats all the way without asking - on a 2-3 hour flight. Not like it's a long haul flight when you want to sleep. I've had my drink spilled all over me and my book by idiots reclining their seat without warning. I've had friends whose laptop screens were broken by the same. You do that crap to me, you're getting my knees in the back of your seat.
I've had my aisle seat STOLEN by a guy who was in the middle seat and wanted my seat for his girlfriend. Very back row of the plane on a 727. I told him in no uncertain terms that I had specifically kept watching the airline website to get that aisle seat and I was going to sit in it. Period. I told him his girlfriend either moves to her booked seat or I get a flight attendant (who were very close to us, in the galley at the back of the plane). The girlfriend was very apologetic and moved to her seat across the aisle, which was a middle seat. Guy hogged the arm rest the first half of the flight and kept jabbing me with his elbow. My arm was by my side and the edge of my elbow was just touching the armrest. One hard jab directed at him with MY elbow stopped him jabbing me and got me a wee bit of the armrest. He started whining at me, but one look of death complete with raised eyebrow shut him up.
I love the expediency of flying. Wasting PTO hours for drive time? No way! Those days are hard earned and I'm not spending them driving like mad to get to a new location.
TSA doesn't bother me in the least-I appreciate the safety it generally offers (I know it's not perfect). I've only experienced respectful treatment and something on me always sets off the x-ray. I have a total knee but that is never what sets it off.
It is much cheaper to fly than to drive/hotel/restaurant...rental cars are so much cheaper than they were 20y ago! And plane tickets? Hell of a lot cheaper than the 90s!
I don't know when I will fly again but when I think it's safe, I will most certainly be back in a seat!
You have to enjoy the journey as much as the destination to like a road trip. I saw so many different landscapes driving around the country, and out of the way attractions far from major airports.
You have to enjoy the journey as much as the destination to like a road trip. I saw so many different landscapes driving around the country, and out of the way attractions far from major airports.
That is so true.
For me a road trip can be enjoyable if it doesn't involve spending more than about 4 hours per day in the car. Last summer when I had two weeks off between jobs I took such a trip. Basically I took five days and did a roundtrip from San Francisco to LA (900-ish miles), with the stops spaced out so that I drove between 3-4 hours each day. (I didn't plan the stops based on the distance/time driving, it just worked out that everywhere that I wanted to spend the night was a 3-4 hour drive from the previous night's stop) It was a fantastic trip, and if I had unlimited time there are plenty of other places in California that I would like to see that way, or possibly even slower, driving a few hours every 2-3 days so I could spend longer in each place.
You have to enjoy the journey as much as the destination to like a road trip. I saw so many different landscapes driving around the country, and out of the way attractions far from major airports.
We've seen nearly everything within a day's drive from home so buzzing through to get elsewhere, a real drag. Our goal is to see all 50 states. We've seen most of what's within 600 miles of home.
Our now cancelled, 40th anniversary trip was to fly into Calgary and spend 12 days driving and enjoying our way through Jasper, Banff and Glacier NPs with the final 2n in the city before returning home (we were going to the rodeo for one day. Driving there? Well we've driven every mile to within 40 miles of the Canadian border already and spent a great deal of time taking it in among several trips.
You have to enjoy the journey as much as the destination to like a road trip. I saw so many different landscapes driving around the country, and out of the way attractions far from major airports.
Absolutely.
Teacher Terry
5-5-20, 12:28am
When we went to Yellowstone and the grand Tetons we should have also went to Banff and Glacier. Luckily living in the West means we have many beautiful places to explore.
I like flying because it gets me there quickly, but I prefer road trips when I have the time, as I love seeing the landscapes of our beautiful country. So much gorgeous scenery, although we tend to extend the road trips to see more scenery, and we end up taking three times the time Google maps says it is supposed to take.
In our road trips, we don't have a destination which must be reached, rather we have a turn around point where we begin our journey back home, and always by a different path. That gives us the ability to make each travel day an adventure where we find something interesting to see and do, more often than not sticking around for several days at each stop. You miss so much trying to reach a destination.
In our road trips, we don't have a destination which must be reached, rather we have a turn around point where we begin our journey back home, and always by a different path. That gives us the ability to make each travel day an adventure where we find something interesting to see and do, more often than not sticking around for several days at each stop. You miss so much trying to reach a destination.
We've lived here 41 years. We are out of those roads long ago.......the rural west is far different from the East.
”...tiny prop plane...”
shoot me now, before I ever have to be scared out of my wits being in such a small flying machine.
Same here!
We've lived here 41 years. We are out of those roads long ago.......the rural west is far different from the East. [/LEFT]The rural west is our favorite turn around point, every trip through Colorado, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, South Dakota, Wyoming, Montana, etc., reveals new wonders.
The rural west is our favorite turn around point, every trip through Colorado, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, South Dakota, Wyoming, Montana, etc., reveals new wonders.
My bucket list dream trip is to take the train from Chicago to Portland, Oregon.
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