Latest Unconstitutional Trump Shenanigans..... [Archive]

gimmethesimplelife

8-23-20, 6:54pm

Trump is now seeking to ban US citizens that show symptoms of (or are suspected of being positive) coronavirus. Ouch - living in the 85006 I know something of border law. It is indeed unconstitutional to block entry to a returning US citizen.

OTOH - if this is enacted my first thought is - political asylum attempts to better countries. OTOH, given the criminal negligence of the current administration in regards to the virus, who would want to offer refuge to Americans NOW? We represent danger to much of the world.

What do you make of this potential ban? Rob

bae

8-23-20, 7:04pm

It is indeed unconstitutional to block entry to a returning US citizen.

Is it? Show us where please?

I mean, I could swim across the border from where I live, and have some familiarity with the border law as well, and I've not heard that it is strictly unconstitutional to deny entry under some circumstances.

I could well think, based on my experience working in the region's infectious disease response team, that there's some discussion in the law about the CDC, for instance...

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/quarantine-stations-us.html

JaneV2.0

8-23-20, 7:06pm

Is Mexico evem letting us in? They shouldn't be, given our COVID status.

bae

8-23-20, 7:16pm

Is Mexico evem letting us in? They shouldn't be, given our COVID status.

"Canada isn't", Pooh said, looking sadly across the border at his favourite restaurants.

Yppej

8-23-20, 7:35pm

They have to let you in, but then couldn't they immediately turn around and forcibly quarantine you? I remember a nurse with Ebola didn't want to be quarantined when she landed in New Jersey but she was held against her will.

Alan

8-23-20, 7:37pm

Trump is now seeking to ban US citizens that show symptoms of (or are suspected of being positive) coronavirus. Ouch - living in the 85006 I know something of border law. It is indeed unconstitutional to block entry to a returning US citizen.
It may well be unconstitutional to permanently block return entry to the United States by a US citizen, but I suspect it is not unconstitutional to require a quarantine period for any citizen bringing disease into the country. Aren't some states still doing that as well?

gimmethesimplelife

8-23-20, 7:50pm

Is Mexico evem letting us in? They shouldn't be, given our COVID status.Yes. I walked across the border into Algodones on July 15th - though I did not post it here, to stock up on meds. No one asked for my passport, and there were no temp checks nor health questions. Neither on the US side upon reentry - no health screen/temp check - but my passport was checked and my things were picked through. Though that was July 15th - an eon ago in pandemic time. Rob

gimmethesimplelife

8-23-20, 7:51pm

It may well be unconstitutional to permanently block return entry to the United States by a US citizen, but I suspect it is not unconstitutional to require a quarantine period for any citizen bringing disease into the country. Aren't some states still doing that as well?I'm down with quarantining infected individuals but not with banning them. Rob

Alan

8-23-20, 7:52pm

I'm down with quarantining infected individuals but not with banning them. RobI think whoever told you they would be banned was pulling your leg.

gimmethesimplelife

8-23-20, 7:56pm

I think whoever told you they would be banned was pulling your leg.Google it Alan - perhaps you'd learn something about America as it really is for many of us. No snark or offense intended, just 85006 reality. This latest insanity of Trump's actually dates back to August 10th - it's not hot off the press - but there are many online articles covering it. Rob

Alan

8-23-20, 7:58pm

Google it Alan - perhaps you'd learn something about America as it really is for many of us. No snark or offense intended, just 85006 reality. This latest insanity of Trump's actually dates back to August 10th - it's not hot off the press - but there are many online articles covering it. Rob
Yes, I've read several articles on the subject. They all talk of the possibility of a temporary ban on immediate re-entry, otherwise known as a quarantine period.

I think it's notable that I haven't run across any credible opposition to the executive order which is still in draft form. Have you?

JaneV2.0

8-23-20, 8:15pm

bae

8-23-20, 8:24pm

I think it's notable that I haven't run across any credible opposition to the executive order which is still in draft form. Have you?

And as I pointed out, there are existing orders relating to 7-8 other diseases, which have been there a long time.

Here's one from 1946....

https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/executive-order-9708-specifying-communicable-diseases-for-the-purpose-regulations

Alan

8-23-20, 8:26pm

And as I pointed out, there are existing orders relating to 7-8 other diseases, which have been there a long time.

Here's one from 1946....

https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/executive-order-9708-specifying-communicable-diseases-for-the-purpose-regulations
Seems reasonable to me.

happystuff

8-23-20, 8:45pm

Yes, I've read several articles on the subject. They all talk of the possibility of a temporary ban on immediate re-entry, otherwise known as a quarantine period.

I think it's notable that I haven't run across any credible opposition to the executive order which is still in draft form. Have you?

How is a temporary ban on re-entry (not permitted back in your country) is the same thing as being quarantined once back in your own country?

Alan

8-23-20, 8:54pm

How is a temporary ban on re-entry (not permitted back in your country) is the same thing as being quarantined once back in your own country?I think that's just word play, and probably what confused the OP in the first place.

happystuff

8-23-20, 9:02pm

I think that's just word play, and probably what confused the OP in the first place.

Well, depending on how those words are "played" means significantly different things.

Alan

8-23-20, 9:12pm

Well, depending on how those words are "played" means significantly different things.I guess we'll see once/if this executive order actually exists. So far I believe all we have are a few news reports and budding outrage from the 'Orange Man Is Bad' crowd, but I suspect it will be similar to other historical orders which no one seems to object to.

happystuff

8-23-20, 9:20pm

I guess we'll see once/if this executive order actually exists. So far I believe all we have are a few news reports and budding outrage from the 'Orange Man Is Bad' crowd, but I suspect it will be similar to other historical orders which no one seems to object to.

Or just additional lip service from the "Orange Man", et al, that amounts to the normal nothing.

Alan

8-23-20, 9:23pm

Or just additional lip service from the "Orange Man", et al, that amounts to the normal nothing.I don't know about that, but it does seem like a prudent thing to do, dontcha think?

bae

8-23-20, 9:26pm

I guess we'll see once/if this executive order actually exists. So far I believe all we have are a few news reports and budding outrage from the 'Orange Man Is Bad' crowd, but I suspect it will be similar to other historical orders which no one seems to object to.

I'd just think that this particular story/issue is an odd one to hang one's "outrage hat" on, with all the other things going on in the world.

Foolishness to get distracted by such nonsense.

happystuff

8-23-20, 9:29pm

I don't know about that, but it does seem like a prudent thing to do, dontcha think?

What? Ignored the Orange Man? Yes! Ban citizens from re- entry into their own country and call it "quarantine "? No! How about allow people to come into their country and then actually quarantine AT HOME.

bae

8-23-20, 9:30pm

I don't know about that, but it does seem like a prudent thing to do, dontcha think?

I'm not sure about that, it's so in-line with standard practice dating back ~100 years that it must be some sort of mistake :-)

happystuff

8-23-20, 9:30pm

I'd just think that this particular story/issue is an odd one to hang one's "outrage hat" on, with all the other things going on in the world.

Foolishness to get distracted by such nonsense.

Excellent point.

bae

8-23-20, 9:33pm

Excellent point.

A truly Damien-like leader would notice that outrage-fatigue is a thing....

jp1

8-23-20, 10:32pm

I don't know about that, but it does seem like a prudent thing to do, dontcha think?

Randomly banning people doesnt, no. Because simply telling people they can’t come in isn’t quarantining. It will be interesting, and unexpected, if the ban, should it happen, provides guidelines for quarantining elsewhere, providing proof in order to be allowed to return, etc.