View Full Version : Session on police accountability and transparency because of Jakob Blake
The Legislature on Monday afternoon (in Wisconsin) opened a special session called by Democratic Gov. Tony Evers on police accountability and transparency. Evers ordered the session last week after the shooting of Jakob Blake in Kenosha in order to take up legislation he introduced in June that would ban no-knock warrants, mandate training on de-escalation techniques and create statewide standards on police use of force.
Under state law the governor has the power to call lawmakers into session, but cannot force them to act and pass legislation. Republican lawmakers did not take action on Monday, just like in other special sessions called by Evers on topics such as gun control and changes to the spring election in response to COVID-19.
"The people of Wisconsin don't want another task force or more delays - they want it today, not tomorrow or some day months down the road," Evers said in a statement.
"It's disappointing that there's no sense of urgency from Republicans, and it's a letdown to all the people who are asking us to lead. We have been talking about these bills for months, and Republicans have had plenty of time to consider them on the merits."
Assembly Majority Leader Jim Steineke, R-Kaukauna, said Monday he hopes the Legislature will bring forward a package of police accountability bills by Jan 1.
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It appears the Republicans seem to want to prolong the protests, destruction, rioting and looting. Nothing will be done until after Jan 1 according to Assembly Majority Leader. Then Republicans talk about law and order. What a joke!
iris lilies
9-1-20, 3:37pm
It may be appropriate for your state to start actions at the state level for examination and reform of policing policy. It probably is, haven’t really thought about it.
But I do know this: every police department is specific to the locale it serves. There is no monolithic POLICE even though Rob would like to have us think that.
When Teacher Terry makes the statement about how those monolithic POLICE are not trained in Techniques to defuse interactions, she is speaking uninformed of reality. I can assure you that big city cops get some training. How good are they at it? Some better than others. My guess is that small town cops like the sheriff help in Hermann Missouri probably have less training in that as they have less training in almost everything. Then there are vast sizes of police departments in between Hermann and my city.Training varies with the department and the individual.
This week we saw evidence of very high-level training as a SWAT team talked down a police shooter in St. Louis. A cop killer. It was one of those barricade-yourself- in-the- house- and -die- by -cop episodes, only this piece of vermin Didn’t die by police shooting, he shot a cop dead and then came out. What a weasel.
People like Teacher Terry can tout their various advanced degrees and think to themselves that they are the only professionals who can defuse a highly charged situation, but I’m thinking that SWAT team is pretty damn good at what they do. And frankly, I would not be surprised if some of them had advanced degrees in human behavioral sciences. It is the discipline and body of knowledge that is important, not the label of law enforcement officer or social worker. Perhaps someday we can accept that reality.
When Teacher Terry makes the statement about how those monolithic POLICE are not trained in Techniques to defuse interactions, she is speaking uninformed of reality. I can assure you that big city cops get some training.
Our small town Barney Fife deputies receive training in mental health issues, substance abuse issues, conflict management techniques, first responder medical, HAZMAT, traffic flagging, chainsaw skills, small boat operations, and all sorts of other good stuff.
Then again, it's a small department with a small budget. T
I have been a member of the Seattle Police training facility for many years now, and those folks get even more training and supervision, or so I have observed.
Teacher Terry
9-1-20, 3:53pm
People on swat teams especially the person doing the negotiating are not your average cop. Yes they usually have advanced training in this area. It your average cop that has a Hs diploma or associate degree in criminal justice that is not prepared for these situations hence the shoot first ask questions later mentality.
It your average cop that has a Hs diploma or associate degree in criminal justice that is not prepared for these situations hence the shoot first ask questions later mentality.
That has not been my experience when interacting with actual "average cops" on actual scenes.
"When Teacher Terry makes the statement about how those monolithic POLICE are not trained in Techniques to defuse interactions, she is speaking uninformed of reality. . .I can assure you . . ."
I think she is speaking of her perceived experienced, just the way you are speaking of your perceived experience.
"People like Teacher Terry can tout their various advanced degrees and think to themselves that they are the only professionals who can defuse a highly charged situation"
I have never heard her say anything of the sort. I think "people like Teacher Terry" and "tout their various advanced degrees" is really out of line.
People are trained in different fields and have different things to bring to the table and the conversation.
"but I’m thinking that SWAT team is pretty damn good at what they do. And frankly, I would not be surprised if some of them had advanced degrees in human behavioral sciences. It is the discipline and body of knowledge that is important, not the label of law enforcement officer or social worker. "
I agree with this.
"Perhaps someday we can accept that reality."
I think we all already accept that. We're still all welcome to discuss the problem, advanced degrees or not. Or is this no longer the case, that if we are counselors or social workers we are not welcome to add our opinions?
That has not been my experience when interacting with actual "average cops" on actual scenes.That hasn't been my experience either, people who make such broad claims generally do so based on nothing more than their bias. All departments require completion of a state mandated training course before an officer can receive a commission and all departments that I'm aware of require on-going training throughout the course of an officer's career. I'm not sure why anyone would discount, that and feel fairly confident that an officer with several years experience has more training in de-escalation techniques than your average social worker. Plus, I feel fairly certain that your average social worker cannot appreciate the immediacy of threats experienced during use of force situations, at least some don't appear to.
I have never heard her say anything of the sort. I think "people like Teacher Terry" and "tout their various advanced degrees" is really out of line.
I think after telling us dozens of times about 3 unspecified advanced degrees and then advising us at least twice that the average police officer is not qualified due to their alleged lack of same, a person has voluntarily opened that subject up for discussion. I'm sure the poster in question would agree.
From my observation, very few of the egregious deadly encounters are the result of SWAT teams acting rashly. They usually seem to be reckless or purposeful acts by individual officers who probably should have been caught by psychological screening before they could join the force.
How did this get to be about SWAT teams? The point was about creating standards about police use of force and de-escalation tactics that the Republicans do not want to even discuss until after the election. Obviously, Republicans want the violence to continue and are in no rush to help it abate.
Obviously, Republicans want the violence to continue and are in no rush to help it abate.We advise everyone making contact with the police to follow instructions, do not run and do not reach for weapons. That would solve 99% of the problem, can't we get credit for that?
We advise everyone making contact with the police to follow instructions, do not run and do not reach for weapons. That would solve 99% of the problem, can't we get credit for that?
That is common knowledge. The Kenosha police get credit for letting a 17 year old Neo-nazi walk right past them with an AR15 when people were telling them he was the shooter. It is reprehensible that Assembly Majority Leader Jim Steineke, Republican from-Kaukauna, said he hopes the Legislature will bring forward a package of police accountability bills by Jan 1. Don't do anything now but wait until after the election. Bogus b.s.
We advise everyone making contact with the police to follow instructions, do not run and do not reach for weapons. That would solve 99% of the problem, can't we get credit for that?
I suppose they also deserve credit for buying Dylan Roof lunch...
Teacher Terry
9-2-20, 1:15am
I looked up the requirements to be a cop and they are just as I stated. I took it for granted that everyone knows they go to the police academy before starting and like most professions are required to take continuing training in their field. Bachelor level social workers have some de-escalation training but at the master’s level have much more. These are the individuals that are best qualified to deal with mental health issues. There are other professionals similarly trained such as mental health counselors, etc. Obviously swat teams have negotiating skills, etc because that is one of their functions. It would be great if everyone approached by a cop would act perfectly but that’s not realistic. Life is messy and unpredictable. People have mental health problems, substance abuse, domestic issues, etc. It’s not unreasonable to expect police officers to act as professionals instead of trigger happy robots. Before cellphones there was no proof of what is happening. Even with evidence it hasn’t seemed to make a difference. It’s not only people of color that are sick of it. Unfortunately the good officers can’t speak of the bad ones who give the profession a black eye. Society is ready for responsible change as our current system is not working. Imperfect people don’t need to needlessly die and deserve a fair justice system.
I looked up the requirements to be a cop and they are just as I stated. I took it for granted that everyone knows they go to the police academy before starting and like most professions are required to take continuing training in their field. Bachelor level social workers have some de-escalation training but at the master’s level have much more. These are the individuals that are best qualified to deal with mental health issues. There are other professionals similarly trained such as mental health counselors, etc. Obviously swat teams have negotiating skills, etc because that is one of their functions. It would be great if everyone approached by a cop would act perfectly but that’s not realistic. Life is messy and unpredictable. People have mental health problems, substance abuse, domestic issues, etc. It’s not unreasonable to expect police officers to act as professionals instead of trigger happy robots. Before cellphones there was no proof of what is happening. Even with evidence it hasn’t seemed to make a difference. It’s not only people of color that are sick of it. Unfortunately the good officers can’t speak of the bad ones who give the profession a black eye. Society is ready for responsible change as our current system is not working. Imperfect people don’t need to needlessly die and deserve a fair justice system.
Police unions and "thin blue line" attitudes are responsible for this. I feel for honest, responsible officers who are forced to go along to get along and keep their mouths shut about the dark side of policing.
Police unions and "thin blue line" attitudes are responsible for this. I feel for honest, responsible officers who are forced to go along to get along and keep their mouths shut about the dark side of policing.
I think the bigger dark side of policing is the real danger confronting them with every citizen contact. Terms such as "trigger happy robots" is misleading to the point of intentional dishonesty in my opinion.
I'm beginning to believe the act of policing will change because of all this as the motivation to provide public service succumbs to the fear of retribution with no societal support.
Teacher Terry
9-2-20, 11:40am
When they stop thinking and hide behind the excuse that I followed “the book” then that’s what they are.
When they stop thinking and hide behind the excuse that I followed “the book” then that’s what they are.I have no idea what that means. What book are they following?
Teacher Terry
9-3-20, 1:13pm
In March in Rochester, NY a man that had a job and family must have had a mental breakdown. He went to visit his brother and within hours was running through the street naked in winter. His brother called the police and they came. The man followed all the cops instructions and they handcuffed him. They then proceeded to put a hood on him saying he was spitting. At this point they obviously should have taken him to the hospital. What they did instead was push his head to the ground so he couldn’t breathe. They let go when he was not moving. Watch the video. The hood fixed the spitting issue and there’s no justification for what they did after that. For once you can’t blame the victim. His only crime was developing a mental illness.
In March in Rochester, NY a man that had a job and family must have had a mental breakdown. He went to visit his brother and within hours was running through the street naked in winter. His brother called the police and they came. The man followed all the cops instructions and they handcuffed him. They then proceeded to put a hood on him saying he was spitting. At this point they obviously should have taken him to the hospital. What they did instead was push his head to the ground so he couldn’t breathe. They let go when he was not moving. Watch the video. The hood fixed the spitting issue and there’s no justification for what they did after that. For once you can’t blame the victim. His only crime was developing a mental illness.You forgot to mention whether he was a danger to himself or others. You also forgot to mention when he died, was it at the scene or was it in the hospital one week later? Wasn't there also a dangerous level of PCP in his system at the time? Were there medical first responders on scene as well during the 11 minute event?
I think it's important to review all details before coming to a conclusion.
Is tearing one's clothes off something associated with PCP? I ask because I assume it is a drug thing--once I was driving from Michigan to Indiana and in one day, saw two people running through the highway without their clothes on, police in pursuit. (Not at the same time--about two hours apart.) Seriously. Two. I assumed they were on drugs and violent because of the number of police cars.
Teacher Terry
9-3-20, 5:07pm
Life support kept him alive for a week. It doesn’t matter about the other things you mentioned because he complied with police, was handcuffed and laying down naked in winter. Once the hood was over his head there’s no reason to lay on him until he stops moving. The chief of police feels that what they did was wrong.
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