Preparing for death

[Tybee]

I've been trying to plan for death lately, since we seem to be at that stage of life, both me and my parents.
I bought a funeral urn that I really like so that we're prepared for whoever needs it first. So I have that covered. Those who wish to be scattered can be scattered and we will reuse the urn. I sent it ahead to our new house so it's waiting there for whenever.
I am wondering what is appropriate burial garb these days. I watched a Grace and Frankie episode where Martin Sheen bought his mother a "smart white suit" although they didn't call it that. My mom was not a smart white suit type. My sil buried her mom in a very colorful silk dress, which matched her personality. I have a wonderful dress from 1967 of my mother's-- I was with her when she tried it on, it was black velvet and she bought it for a New Years Eve party. It was cleaned back in the late 70's and is in great shape. It would still fit her. But my dil said it would be a waste of a wonderful vintage dress, so there is that.

Do I pick a dress from when she was in court?

Do you bury your dad in a suit? In his Marine uniform? They both want to be cremated, which makes it even harder to figure out.

I just want all this figured out and put in a closet somewhere so that I don't have to think of it at the time of. I just want to be on auto-pilot. It was like wedding vows--I just wanted to use the traditional ones, that's why you have things like that, so you don't have to think about it.

I have an outfit for me and it got sent ahead to, so I should be ready to go if need be.

[Teacher Terry]

If you get cremated no need for clothes unless you are having a showing of the body at the funeral. The funerals I have been to have a picture of the person next to the urn.

[Tybee]

Do they wrap them in a shroud and cremate them? That seems odd to me, culturally speaking. But sensible, I guess.

[Teacher Terry]

I read they put you in a cardboard coffin box and put you in the oven.

[iris lilies]

I don’t know what we buried my parents in. I don’t care what clothes I’m wearing when I’m disposed of.

I suppose you are right though that it is best to have these things written down so that those left behind in a paralysis of grief don’t have to figure it out. I guess I just want to say it’s so damned unimportant what I’m wearing, what happens to my body, that I simply would support anything they want to do. Is that really too much of a burden? Having wide-open flexibility?

[Tybee]

I don’t know what we buried my parents in. I don’t care what clothes I’m wearing when I’m disposed of.

I suppose you are right though that it is best to have these things written down so that those left behind in a paralysis of grief don’t have to figure it out. I guess I just want to say it’s so damned unimportant what I’m wearing, what happens to my body, that I simply would support anything they want to do. Is that really too much of a burden? Having wide-open flexibility?

Huh? I am trying to prepare for what to do with their bodies when they are gone. I want to be respectful of their bodies. What are you talking about "is that really too much of a burden?"

[frugal-one]

Smart to be getting everything in order. DS came in October and I showed him our estate plan. The first thing in the book is the crematorium to use. I went through the book with him so he would know what everything meant.. even showing what to put in the obituaries. He thanked me when finished. We don't plan on having a viewing or any service so that makes it much easier for him. My DH thought it funny that I bought an urn at a garage sales for $1 for me and then asked him what he wanted me to use if he goes first. I can't imagine having to think about these things in the throes of grief.

[Tybee]

I can't either-- I think it's cool that you found a garage sale urn. And so great that they are thinking this through and telling you son what you want, yay you, that is very thoughtful.

I got hung up on this clothes thing. I guess I never thought about cremation versus burial and what you do about the clothes.

[iris lilies]

Huh? I am trying to prepare for what to do with their bodies when they are gone. I want to be respectful of their bodies. What are you talking about "is that really too much of a burden?"

I read your post as talking about yourself, tho I suppose it doesn’t really matter Who we are talking about.

I think it’s a fair question: is it easier for those left behind to have specific, detailed plans to follow for a body disposal OR is it easier for those left behind to know the deceased did not care and anything they do is fine.

For my dogs, I play each one by ear. I like the flexibility.

[Tybee]

I was trying to figure out what people are clothed in at their cremation. Apparently, sometime they are just wrapped in a sheet, or in whatever they arrived in from the hospital or nursing home.

Since my mother's dementia is advanced, and my dad does not want to talk about death, then they are not leaving directives. I will probably not leave a directive but rather tell one of my kids or my daughter in law so that they don't have to figure it out.

Since my dad has been recommended for hospice, I'm trying to get some of these details thought about now so I don't have to do it later.

[Yppej]

It shouldn't be as complicated as it is.

I like the ideas of a burial tree as described in Returning to Earth by Jim Harrison or sky burial, both Native American practices that are now outlawed although sky burial is successfully practiced elsewhere by Parsis and Tibetans.

A special interest lobby has convinced our government that the practices original to our continent are wrong and must be replaced by expensive and in many cases toxic practices. Even with a growing Muslim population green burial, which does not use toxic chemicals, is rarely allowed.

People usually don't get to wash and wrap their dead, which was common in colonial times, or to hold wakes in the home of the deceased, also once the norm. An industry has taken over a key milestone, and government allows them and them only to sign off on how we exit this world.

I hope you are able to find simplicity and peace as you make these plans.

[catherine]

Wow.. This thread instantly makes me think of past regrets--things that I'm ashamed of regarding my mother. I have a very unmaterialistic view of death. I have no intention of having my body hermetically sealed in an expensive box taking up real estate in a cemetery. I truly look at my body as the skin of a snake that I will shed unceremoniously when I die.

This attitude is fine for me, but I realized shortly after my mother died how "radical"--maybe inappropriately so--my beliefs in this area were. When she died, we were going to cremate her (her wishes) and she was going to be put in a closed casket for the wake. It didn't even occur to me to bring something for the funeral home to dress her in. Once my brother asked me to, I certainly did find an outfit for her, but I gave it no significance whatsoever. Same thing with the urn. We were going to scatter her ashes in the Long Island Sound, where she, like I, spent wonderful summers. But our memorial service/scattering of the ashes was to take place a few months later, in the spring, when it was warmer and my brother had recovered from a heart incident. It never occurred to me to buy a fancy urn in the meantime. So when we took out her ashes to walk over to the dock where we were going to scatter them, my older brother quipped, Mmmm. Nestle Quik! Because it was just in the utilitarian rectangular tin box that the crematorium provided for free. The way I behaved with regard to my mother's funeral could easily be misconstrued as lack of respect, but it really wasn't. Of course I loved my mother, and we had a beautiful memorial service for her. It's just that I knew she was "somewhere else."

So, I think it's great, Tybee, that you are thinking seriously about this now. My MIL was an earth sign (Taurus), and was much more materialistic than I.. and we knew for decades before she died that she wanted to be buried in the gown that she wore to my/DH's wedding. And she was. She also was the last one in in the plot of 4 that she purchased way back when her husband died in 1965, and which also accommodates her parents. The plot is at Kensico Cemetery, which is absolutely beautiful, and it's where there are a ton of celebrities buried--her husband had wanted to be buried on a hill, and that's where they are--overlooking the Westchester valleys. I've never seen a more beautiful cemetery, and it was so like my MIL to get the best in this type of situation.

We have no other elders to worry about in the family. We are the elders. So, honestly, I have no attachment to my body. Donate it to science, give me a burial at sea, cremate me and put me in a shoebox with the ashes of my two dogs. Whatever. DH wants to be cremated, and he has specified where he wants his ashes scattered. I will insist that he is cremated in his kilt (his cheaper one--not the expensive one).

[Tybee]

It shouldn't be as complicated as it is.

I like the ideas of a burial tree as described in Returning to Earth by Jim Harrison or sky burial, both Native American practices that are now outlawed although sky burial is successfully practiced elsewhere by Parsis and Tibetans.

A special interest lobby has convinced our government that the practices original to our continent are wrong and must be replaced by expensive and in many cases toxic practices. Even with a growing Muslim population green burial, which does not use toxic chemicals, is rarely allowed.

People usually don't get to wash and wrap their dead, which was common in colonial times, or to hold wakes in the home of the deceased, also once the norm. An industry has taken over a key milestone, and government allows them and them only to sign off on how we exit this world.

I hope you are able to find simplicity and peace as you make these plans.

Thank you, Yppej, that is very kind.

[iris lilies]

It shouldn't be as complicated as it is.

I like the ideas of a burial tree as described in Returning to Earth by Jim Harrison or sky burial, both Native American practices that are now outlawed although sky burial is successfully practiced elsewhere by Parsis and Tibetans.

A special interest lobby has convinced our government that the practices original to our continent are wrong and must be replaced by expensive and in many cases toxic practices. Even with a growing Muslim population green burial, which does not use toxic chemicals, is rarely allowed.

People usually don't get to wash and wrap their dead, which was common in colonial times, or to hold wakes in the home of the deceased, also once the norm. An industry has taken over a key milestone, and government allows them and them only to sign off on how we exit this world.

I hope you are able to find simplicity and peace as you make these plans.

Oh I don’t think that “toxic chemicals “ are as widespread as they once were. Mr. Google says 50% of bodies in the United States are embalmed. Also, your loved one can go from the hospital morgue directly to the crematorium in my state. Easy Peezy. Cost around $650.

Muslims are not the only ones not embalmed. Jews are not embalmed. My mother wasn’t embalmed. But I wouldn’t say that embalming is the only complex body ritual, the Jews have their stuff.

I have no regrets about my father because he stated very clearly multiple times that it didn’t matter how his body was disposed of.those who are left behind need to do what brings them comfort. I think my mother made some kind of dumb choices about him, but that’s fine. It was her decision, she could afford it, and in the end it did not matter to me.

[Tybee]

" Mr. Google says 50% of bodies in the United States are involved. "

I love this auto-correct. Sounds like the other 50% are raptured straight to heaven.

[iris lilies]

" Mr. Google says 50% of bodies in the United States are involved. "

I love this auto-correct. Sounds like the other 50% are raptured straight to heaven.
Yes! I think that is what happens! Haha

I fixed it.

[Tybee]

I will insist that he is cremated in his kilt (his cheaper one--not the expensive one).

That is very Scots of you, frugal and sensible.

My son already took my father's tuxedo, raincoat, and white linen summer suit. They fit him perfectly, and he wore the raincoat yesterday. That makes me happy, as he looks so much like my father.

[razz]

Well, you have your priorities. Each person is guided by personal choice, belief systems, changing trends, political persuasions, etc.

The US experience may also be different than the Canadian.

A large number of us walk in the local cemetery because it is large and pretty with old trees, a lovely southerly breeze especially in the summer and we regulars visit when we meet. We also see the different funeral choices that others make.

Over the past 10-15 years, the number of concrete crypts which enclose the coffin has reduced significantly, a lot more holes for urns than coffins are prepared, the columbarium for ashes is in great demand which meant additions needed. There is a lot of history with family plots holding space for later generations.
I am surprised at the number of death who choose no notification, a cremation and no memorial simply interment of ashes in an urn.

DH and I had decided years before to do the absolute minimum needed to dispose of the body and donate a sum of money to the community needs rather than a funeral or tombstone. So that is what I did. A simple notification of death in the paper with my favourite photo of him and his ashes were scattered around his favourite spot in our farm's woodlot. Some people were startled by the simplicity, possibly disapproved of the lack of ritual but our family decided what to do. I have no regrets.

I have prepaid for a pick-up from place of death, a simple cremation in a cardboard coffin, a box of ashes to be given to family and scattered in a green space or under a tree that is planted. Cost $3600. When family is notified of my passing, they are to contact the funeral director who ensures that it all is completed according to plan. I have given my kids any of DH's tools etc, that they might want, a lump sum of money and downsized substantially so I am not concerned about anything further. I expect to live for another 25 years.

I expect that the dealing with death will continue to change in a number of ways.

Just one suggestion - contact a local community hall if you wish a simple catered remembrance event as people do love to visit; of course, that means that once covid is cleared away.

[Teacher Terry]

When my friend died the crematorium picked her up from the nursing home and she was in her pajamas. Unless you are being buried I don’t think you get dressed in certain clothes. My mom picked out her outfit for being buried.

I picked a beautiful urn for my mil. We used it at the funeral. She wanted her ashes scattered. Since then we have loaned it to a few people for their services. I want to be interred in it with all my dogs ashes mixed in. When my friend died I bought her a beautiful urn.

[Simplemind]

Holy cow Razz, pick up, direct cremation and box of ashes to be scattered is only $600 (ish) here and that includes several copies of the death certificate. The prices for these services are all over the place (at least in the US) for basically the same service. Most people never think to check it and I advise making at least a couple of phone calls or use a great website I found called Funeralocity where you put in your zipcode and it will give you the prices within different mile ranges.

In preparation for my mom's death I visited three funeral homes within a mile of each other. I asked for the same thing at all three and one was $550, another was $1500 and the last was $3000. I've since learned a lot about the funeral biz and boy oh boy..... it pays to do your homework. By the time my dad passed I knew exactly who what and where and it was stress free.

[razz]

Holy cow Razz, pick up, direct cremation and box of ashes to be scattered is only $600 (ish) here and that includes several copies of the death certificate. The prices for these services are all over the place (at least in the US) for basically the same service. Most people never think to check it and I advise making at least a couple of phone calls or use a great website I found called Funeralocity where you put in your zipcode and it will give you the prices within different mile ranges.

In preparation for my mom's death I visited three funeral homes within a mile of each other. I asked for the same thing at all three and one was $550, another was $1500 and the last was $3000. I've since learned a lot about the funeral biz and boy oh boy..... it pays to do your homework. By the time my dad passed I knew exactly who what and where and it was stress free.
We had heard about $15,000 for funerals including visitations, coffin, service and burial. Tombstones are ridiculous in price. You are right about the death certificates. I think that I needed about 10 for DH and was given 12. A new minimalist provider just started up in the last year with reportedly cheaper rates. I have not checked them out.
We have a problem now with too many funeral homes and few historical funerals that pay substantial revenue. One has closed and I expect more will as time goes by.

[jp1]

It's definitely interesting reading others thoughts on this subject. My parents were lifelong practical and frugal people. After my mother had been diagnosed with terminal cancer she picked out her dress to be buried in. It was the nicest one she had, but not anything fancy or meaningful in any way, just the last nice dress that she had bought for some family gathering. My dad never expressed any thoughts about things like that beyond the long known fact that he would be buried at the military cemetery since uncle sam was paying for it. (Mom was already there.) He had picked out the cheapest casket at the funeral home so literally all we had to do was call them and say "it's time, he's waiting for you at this hospital" and then show up when it was time to go to the cemetery for the graveside service.

Dad was much more concerned with the financial side of things, having been an accountant as a career. He told me on more than one occasion, "JP, when you die, everything you own becomes the property of someone else. Who that someone(s) is depends on the law in the state where you used to live." As such he had sent my sister and I a net worth statement listing all his assets, account numbers, etc, every five or six years from the time he retired until he died. The last thing listed on each of these was his lawyer's contact info with the helpful detail "it's directly above A Show of Hands" (A Show of Hands was a nail salon downstairs from his office in a small retail/office building near where Dad lived.) After Dad passed away my sister, his executor, went to Denver a few weeks later to deal with probate. At some point that week she needed to speak with the lawyer about some now forgotten detail, so she texted me a picture of the sign for A Show of Hands with the text "Guess where I am? LOL" Dad had unintentionally spent 24 years setting up a post-mortem joke for me and my sister.

edited to add, neither of my parents were embalmed. They both thought it was a waste of money and that once someone died the body was of no importance in any way whatsoever. Personally I agree with that. As such I've only been to the cemetery where they are buried twice. Once when mom died and once when dad died. I doubt I'll ever go again. For me my parents aren't there. What remains of them are the fond memories that I have of them which I can access any time I want in any location. Obviously other people feel differently. SO's family has gone numerous times to Jefferson Barracks Cemetery to visit dear FIL's grave overlooking the Mississippi River.

[llknp]

A lot of funeral homes / cemeteries have pre-paid burial plans. Perhaps a visit to one of these and a talk with one of the counselors can help you get all your questions answered. At least it is a place to start.

[Tybee]

Thank you, all, so many good ideas here to ponder.

[Tybee]

I have found this website to start the planning process:

https://www.cremationofsouthernmaine.com/get-started

Thanks to everyone who recommended the pre-planning process. It looks pretty straightforward.

[rosarugosa]

We had Dad cremated when he died in 1984, and Mom scattered his ashes in the Atlantic. He had been a merchant seaman all of his life, having worked his way up from Able Bodied Seaman to Captain. We gave the funeral home his "khakis" for clothing because that was always his preferred casual wear that he found most comfortable. I know it's a silly thought to consider comfort for someone who is dead, but I kind of like the idea of being in favorite comfy clothes at the end. I think most of us are happy to get out of dress clothing as soon as we can. I want to be cremated in my LLB Vista Camp pants and my gray hoodie, lol.

Edit: Just realized I had put "DH" when it was about my Dad!

[Tybee]

Rosa, that sounds very reasonable to me, and kind of what I was wondering. I had a wonderful pair of velour sweatpants that I wore for the last 15 years, and I told my husband I wanted to be cremated in them, but recently I noticed they were worn to a rag, and I had to get rid of them. So I guess I outlived my funeral garb.

I think an LL Bean flannel shirt for Dad makes sense. I always bought them for him at Christmas; he always gives me LL Bean clothes, and I can still remember his LL Bean hunting shoes from 1960--in fact, I think I finally threw them out of his empty house this year.

[catherine]

This thread has prompted some research into options in my area, so thank you for your experiences and advice. What is a "direct cremation" vs a "full-service cremation" What do you get with each? I see that in my area direct cremations are about $1700.

[pinkytoe]

I was just thinking yesterday about how glad I am my in-laws made all their plans years ago so that those of us left behind weren't burdened with decisions. MIL is saying she wants to die so it will happen soon. This also reminds me that DH and I need to get on with writing up our wishes but he doesn't like to even think about it. I have been reading Desert Solitaire by Edward Abbey and apparently he was buried secretly in the wild desert he loved so much - I suppose against the law but that is what he wanted. That appeals to me. Me, I guess I would like to be wrapped in cloth and buried in a pine box with a lovely tree planted over me. Or have my ashes scattered in the mountains. My brother always impresses on me how important it is to have some sort of burial marker for future geneaology efforts but that's his thing.

[catherine]

My brother always impresses on me how important it is to have some sort of burial marker for future geneaology efforts but that's his thing.

In my family, graves are guilt-provoking because we feel we should visit them but never do. DH feel guilty that he has been to his mother's grave once since she died 10 years ago. I feel guilty because my father is buried in a cemetery but my mother never got him a headstone, and I felt I should have. When I was doing genealogy stuff, I discovered "Find A Grave" (which is a great site) and I was so happy to find my great-aunt's grave, but then crestfallen to see that it badly needed to be cleaned.

I do think it will be fun someday to visit the graves of my New England ancestors, but knowing they exist doesn't motivate me to provide my descendants with one of my own.

[Teacher Terry]

Because my husband was in the military he can be interred in our federal cemetery for free and I will cost 400. I already made our reservations:)). We have friends already there. I visit my parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles whenever I go to Wisconsin. The cemetery they chose takes good care of them. The headstones must be flat so the mower can go over it.

[catherine]

Because my husband was in the military he can be interred in our federal cemetery for free and I will cost 400. I already made our reservations:)). We have friends already there. I visit my parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles whenever I go to Wisconsin. The cemetery they chose takes good care of them. The headstones must be flat so the mower can go over it.

Mmmm.. another good idea. I don't think DH ever considered burial in the military cemetery, and he's very proud of his service in the Marines. We have never taken advantage of any Veteran's benefits, so maybe this is one we should look into

[happystuff]

Cremate and scatter. "Scattering" the ashes makes me think of being "free", and I like the idea of my ashes going back into the universe instead of a body sitting enclosed in a box for who-knows-how-long.

[Teacher Terry]

You have a choice to be buried or your ashes interred in a wall. They engrave the plaques and you have a choice of what goes on it from a list. Unfortunately no dogs are on the list:)). There’s eagles though. Filling out the paperwork guarantees you a spot. Thankfully my parents planned their funerals down to the last details as to clothing and writing their own obituary. Everything was paid for.

[jp1]

Thinking about being comfortable reminded me of when I was in Hong Kong and our tour guide was explaining death customs there. Apparently there it's common for people to be buried with things that they liked/used in life, or at least representations of them. One of the examples she have was that her father had been buried with a toy motorola cell phone (yes, this was 20 years ago, back when lots of people had motorola cell phones) because that way he wouldn't be lonely.

[catherine]

Thinking about being comfortable reminded me of when I was in Hong Kong and our tour guide was explaining death customs there. Apparently there it's common for people to be buried with things that they liked/used in life, or at least representations of them. One of the examples she have was that her father had been buried with a toy motorola cell phone (yes, this was 20 years ago, back when lots of people had motorola cell phones) because that way he wouldn't be lonely.

Hmmm. I'd want to be buried with my coffee cup, a pound of dark roast and my bullet journal.

[razz]

Genealogy searchers go to the local archives for records, I believe, not cemeteries in our area. Families visit graves a lot shortly after death but gradually ease up until the annual decoration day and then rare visits at all. Some people are very conscientious though. With our mobile society and multiple relationships, it is hard to know where a person might be buried based on an individual's history. Changes in society cause ripple effects in death rituals as well, I suppose.

Many old graves are tired and neglected which made my late DH and I decide to skip the expensive gravestone altogether. I planted a memorial tree with a plaque for DH and I maintain a small garden around the tree. When I no longer do this, the tree will be fine by itself.

A friend advised that once the annual maintenance fee to the family grave in the UK remains unpaid, another body is placed on top. Someone may know whether this is general practice there.

[catherine]

A friend advised that once the annual maintenance fee to the family grave in the UK remains unpaid, another body is placed on top. Someone may know whether this is general practice there.

My only experience is with the Kensico cemetery, and my DH always asks the question "How do they make money??" because we don't have a maintenance fee. The entire fee was paid in full in 1965, and they continue to maintain the site. I have no idea if that's the case with everyone in that cemetery, or if things have changed since then, or if MIL chose some type of upfront fee in lieu of yearly maintenance.

[Tybee]

I wanted to do the military burial for dad and for mom as he served in WWII and she worked at a Navy shipyard during the war so she also served at home.

He said he did not want that, unfortunately. It would have been fitting, and it would have pleased me, as it would have honored his service and the grave would have been maintained.

But he wants to be "scattered in a flowerbed in consecrated ground"--to which his rector said, "no way can he do that."

Which raises another point--lately, I've seen family members in my husband's family, and my ex-husband, where the departed said what they wanted, and the remaining folks have said no, it's too expensive, you're going to be cremated.

So that raises the point of whether people should honor the wishes of the departed or do their own thing? In my fil's case, what step mother-in-law chose to do was radically different than what he wanted.

Actually, also true in case of ex-husband.

[Yppej]

Maybe an argument for prepaying for the type of disposition you want.

[happystuff]

I wanted to do the military burial for dad and for mom as he served in WWII and she worked at a Navy shipyard during the war so she also served at home.

He said he did not want that, unfortunately. It would have been fitting, and it would have pleased me, as it would have honored his service and the grave would have been maintained.

But he wants to be "scattered in a flowerbed in consecrated ground"--to which his rector said, "no way can he do that."

Which raises another point--lately, I've seen family members in my husband's family, and my ex-husband, where the departed said what they wanted, and the remaining folks have said no, it's too expensive, you're going to be cremated.

So that raises the point of whether people should honor the wishes of the departed or do their own thing? In my fil's case, what step mother-in-law chose to do was radically different than what he wanted.

Actually, also true in case of ex-husband.

Makes one realize that what ACTUALLY happens is truly up to those left dealing with arrangements (even pre-arrangements can be changed!). Best I can do is make my wishes known and, if possible, have the money for what I want done. But, again, the reality is that whoever is handling things can do what they want. Knowing ahead that my wishes are known may generate a sense of comfort while I'm still alive, but doesn't necessarily change the reality of events after I'm gone. And, at that point in time - what will I care? ;)

[ToomuchStuff]

This thread is both thought provoking and making me laugh. My earliest memory and my "happy place" was going to the funeral home, with my grandfather, who worked there (and they were neighbors with Harry's cousin). They gave me a couple of pop bottles to keep my quiet, while my grandfather went upstairs to photograph Truman's casket. I still have the pictures and the info given to him by the secret service, and I was two. (easy to date memory)
Decades later, semi family, told me the story of why I was taken and how three people had to die for me to have that "happy place".
Funerals, are for the living.....

Now, I do need to plan more and better for my death financially and be redoing it in the very near future, again. This is due to the new house, becoming an owner of the business, etc. etc. So much of this is on hold, though, because probate is backed up, due to covid and courts. So far, I have two estates that we need to combine into one sale, when it is allowed.
So I have had family in that industry and still smile when I drive by "my second home" that was my childhood dream job (working with grandpa). So after GP passed, GM did the preplanned thing at the funeral home. When she passed nearly two decades later, ownership of the funeral home had changed, the law had changed (now required a vault), and there was only one person who knew her or my grandfather, and when he worked with GP, he was new and now was retiring within days.
So preplanned are good IMHO, but not perfect and many financial people say don't do them.
As to being cremated in uniform, unless requested, I wouldn't, because don't you have to remove all the metals/jewelry, etc? Our view has always been best clothes out of the closet for viewing/visitation. Cremation, something comfortable or means something to the person (late boss, Pirates stuff).
Cremation verses burial, is personal preferences (some religious, some other aspects). It has been a long time since I visited the funeral homes family plot. That is where I would like my ashes spread, but I don't believe it is allowed. Other family, still think you're going to hell if you get burned, intentionally. There are other family plots, in different area's of the state, that haven't been visited in almost 70 years. We move forward. Then I have family that I don't even know if or where they are buried. (relatives former owner that raped them, didn't need that history)

[Tammy]

I haven’t planned anything or put anything into writing as I will let this decision up to who ever remains. But I told my husband and children to just donate my body to science. After about a year they’ll get back a bag of cremated remains from all of my leftover parts. I’m forever the practical person

[Yppej]

(relatives former owner that raped them, didn't need that history)

Am I reading this correctly that your relative was a slave raped by a slavemaster?

[razz]

I haven’t planned anything or put anything into writing as I will let this decision up to who ever remains. But I told my husband and children to just donate my body to science. After about a year they’ll get back a bag of cremated remains from all of my leftover parts. I’m forever the practical person

I was going to do this as well until I was told of situations where science didn't want the body. They were not told immediately so family came for the visitation and left. All of a sudden, the family who had come from out of province then had to make arrangements from a distance which was a real pain. Instead, I make sure that my body can be harvested of anything useful by signing the donation form on my driver's licence.

My prearrangement does not require much more than a phone call and it is completed.

It is hard to preplan everything as life and society change over the years so what works today may be of no benefit in 20 years time.

[Gardnr]

We sent Dad's suit to the funeral home with him when they picked him up. Mom: my sister and I selected a nice dress from her closet and took that to the funeral home when we went to make the arrangements.

Please don't go shop for "the right or expected thing". If it's in their closet and you saw them wear it, it's fine.

[iris lilies]

Maybe an argument for prepaying for the type of disposition you want.

agreed. If whatever you want presents a financial burden to those left behind, you had better pay for it yourself.

See I have a very strong feeling about “honoring the wishes of the departed.”


If the departed has strong ideas about what they want done, they need to make a plan and make sure that plan is filed with a death industry representative.My mother annoyed me over decades because she felt strongly about what she wanted done with her remains—which in itself is fine — but you would be surprised how often the plan changed and how radical the change was. It went from “ I must be cremated if I’m not cremated I’ll come back and haunt you “ too “now I’m Jewish and I have to be buried in the Jewish cemetery with all of that ritual.” . And in between those two radical ideas, quite different, were various other things. So I stopped listening to her and just assumed her plan which we urged her to make, covered the stuff she wanted done.It almost seem to me to be a bit of a hobby with her, making the death plans.

[Tybee]

We sent Dad's suit to the funeral home with him when they picked him up. Mom: my sister and I selected a nice dress from her closet and took that to the funeral home when we went to make the arrangements.

Please don't go shop for "the right or expected thing". If it's in their closet and you saw them wear it, it's fine.

Thank you, that's what I needed to hear.

[iris lilies]

This thread has prompted some research into options in my area, so thank you for your experiences and advice. What is a "direct cremation" vs a "full-service cremation" What do you get with each? I see that in my area direct cremations are about $1700.
Look, anytime the funeral home touches the dead body or executes any part of a service, there is a large fee involved. You do not need that middleman.

You as the consumer can take charge of the dead body and send it directly to the crematorium. I’ve looked into this in my town. The crematorium is literally half a mile from my house and I know exactly where it is. That is literally half a mile from the nearest hospital.

in my scenario of “direct crematorium “you issue the order to move the body from the hospital morgue to the crematorium. There is no service. There is no fancy urn. There is no coffin to burn up. The funeral home is completely out of it.

As mentioned above, I would not discount the importance of getting multiple death certificates. You will need those. I don’t know how they come about If a funeral home involved, but of course one can do it.

tl; dr a funeral home need not be involved at all. Not in my state, anyway.

edited to add: cremation in this direct way is $650 ish. Last time I talked to the crematorium to get the exact cost, it was under $600. I assume prices have gone up a bit.

[Teacher Terry]

In my state direct cremation can be done also. When my friend was dying she was in a small town so used the local funeral home. There was no direct cremation facility. I was allowed to prepay with her money even though she had went on Medicaid because the cost of her care doubled over time. They were even willing to drive her to the veterans cemetery for me but I wanted to pick her up and inter her. It was the last thing I could do for her. I see no point in worrying about what one is wearing to be cremated. I would use the direct cremation and then buy a nice urn for the service. My mil would love it that so many people have used her beautiful urn and that I will to. However, I am selfish and will reside in it:)).

[jp1]

You as the consumer can take charge of the dead body and send it directly to the crematorium. I’ve looked into this in my town. The crematorium is literally half a mile from my house and I know exactly where it is. That is literally half a mile from the nearest hospital.


This reminded me of an episode of the show Six Feet Under. Every episode starts with someone dying and then works up the story from there. In one episode the dying man had decided it was time to die. So he drove himself to the funeral home that is the basis of the show, parked in their driveway, and promptly died of a heart attack.

[Simplemind]

Its funny about the urn. My mom collected antiques so we put her ashes in a lovely French chocolate pot. She fit perfectly. My dad had told us that he just wanted to be sprinkled out the car window on the way home from the crematorium. We didn't of course but he stayed in the box that he came in. It was actually a nice heavy duty plastic container. Both parents were cremated with their favorite personal items and others that we felt they needed for their comfort in the next life. My dad had a favorite restaurant and loved their crab. We went and ate his favorite meal and got one to go, all his favorite servers and the cook and hostess signed the take out container. He loved pineapple upside down cake (was always asking the afore mentioned restaurant to put one on the menu) so I baked one to go. He loved his scotch... all that as well as other items got cremated with him. We of course had to share some of the scotch in his favorite Waterford before he was rolled away. With mom it was wine and her Waterford as well as a large container of Haagen Daz and a silver spoon. The only thing we couldn't put in was a lighter so she is going to have to find another way to light her cigarettes in the after life.
My folks would never discuss what they wanted so it was left to us. They both had a sense of humor and I think they would have really appreciated our way of sending them off.
We won't pre-pay for services for a host of reasons some having already been mentioned here. Our kids know that we want to be cremated for the least cost and they know where that is now and how to look if it changes later. We asked if they wanted a cemetary to visit and they really weren't sure. We scattered some of dad up at a lake by Mt Hood where we camped and worked growing up. Mt. Hood makes the perfect headstone and you can see it for miles. I think of my dad every time I look at it. So that is where we have asked to be scattered. Ever since we scattered dad we have an annual camp trip up there with extended family. I think it is the perfect place to be.

[Tybee]

IL and Catherine, the cost of what you are describing in Maine for the direct cremation, where "you issue the order, etc. out of it." is 1700, although they do include a cardboard coffin, free of charge.

God, that sounds like a country western song.

[Tybee]

Simplemind, what a great send off. I remember visiting a museum display of mummies, and really liking the fact that they were buried with such things, even as a little kid I thought it was a good thing.

[Tybee]

I understand those who think it does not matter at all what you clothe or wrap the body in, but many feel it is of significance and a way to honor their body, so I suppose this varies person to person. I have decided I am in the latter camp, so I will work with that.

[razz]

So glad that you posted this thread, Tybee. It has been interesting and educational helping me understand even more different points of view.

[Simplemind]

I agree Tybee. My dad was picked up at the hospital in his hospital gown and taken directly to the crematorium. My son knew my dad as the clothes horse that he was and went to the house and collected his finest along with a Pendleton vest that he adored and wore far too often. He dressed him and topped it all off with his favorite Scottish Tam. I don't remember how it started but all the men in the family hunted and all wore Tams when they did.
My mom was also wore beautiful clothing and accessories. She would have haunted us for sure if she wasn't properly turned out.
That said I will tell you that if you aren't having a viewing there is a very good chance that the clothing that you are sending is probably just being layed on top of the body before it is cremated.

[happystuff]

So glad that you posted this thread, Tybee. It has been interesting and educational helping me understand even more different points of view.

While my death wishes enter my thoughts every now and then, they are definitely not in the forefront of any of my plans. I agree that this has been both interesting and education. I thank everyone for all the posts.

[iris lilies]

IL and Catherine, the cost of what you are describing in Maine for the direct cremation, where "you issue the order, etc. out of it." is 1700, although they do include a cardboard coffin, free of charge.

God, that sounds like a country western song.

I wonder why it’s so expensive in Maine? It is nearly 3 times as much as it is here in St. Louis.

Well, perhaps they’re dealing with state regulations and mandated things that don’t exist here in Missouri. Also we’re more populated here in the city than in most of Maine so it may be economy of scale. Also, cheaper energy costs here to fire up the ovens?

[jp1]

Simplemind, what a great send off. I remember visiting a museum display of mummies, and really liking the fact that they were buried with such things, even as a little kid I thought it was a good thing.

Didn’t they also bury the pets and servants with them as well?

[Tybee]

Okay, now I am really confused. For 1495, you can get something called a natural green cremation package, but it's 2.5 hours north of Portland, so I don't think it would work. What are they talking about here?

https://directcremationofmaine.com/483/Ultra/NaturalGreen_outside.jpg?rand=2667.999004721402

[catherine]

Wow. That's pretty cool, but you're right. How do they "cremate" you without fire??

[Tybee]

Exactly. You get ashes at the end of both, so how does water do that?

[Tybee]

Ok, I just googled and youtubed this, and I really, really wish I hadn't.

[catherine]

I wonder why it’s so expensive in Maine? It is nearly 3 times as much as it is here in St. Louis.

Well, perhaps they’re dealing with state regulations and mandated things that don’t exist here in Missouri. Also we’re more populated here in the city than in most of Maine so it may be economy of scale. Also, cheaper energy costs here to fire up the ovens?

It's the same in Vermont--similar to Maine. Here is the breakdown of costs at a direct cremation place near me.

The following charges with the exception of the funeral home service charge and Crematory charge are required by the State of Vermont. These fees for permits are not retained by the funeral home but are the direct cost of such permits. We make it convenient for the family to pay one sum instead of writing various small checks for these necessary items.

1,065.00: Funeral Home Service Charge
390.00: Crematory Charge
25.00: Medical Examiner Permit
10.00: 1 Certified Death Certificate (additional certified copies by request $10/each)
5.00: Transit Permit
$1,495.00 Total Direct Cremation Charges for Chittenden, Franklin, Lamoille & Grand Isle Counties

[rosarugosa]

Didn’t they also bury the pets and servants with them as well?

I believe that is correct, and not nearly as benign as burying someone with their favorite inanimate objects.

[Tybee]

Well honestly, I think 1500-1700 dollars seems pretty inexpensive, for all of those fees and the services involved. I do wonder why it's cheaper where IL lives.

[iris lilies]

It's the same in Vermont--similar to Maine. Here is the breakdown of costs at a direct cremation place near me.

The following charges with the exception of the funeral home service charge and Crematory charge are required by the State of Vermont. These fees for permits are not retained by the funeral home but are the direct cost of such permits. We make it convenient for the family to pay one sum instead of writing various small checks for these necessary items.

1,065.00: Funeral Home Service Charge
390.00: Crematory Charge
25.00: Medical Examiner Permit
10.00: 1 Certified Death Certificate (additional certified copies by request $10/each)
5.00: Transit Permit
$1,495.00 Total Direct Cremation Charges for Chittenden, Franklin, Lamoille & Grand Isle Counties

ok, exactly as I thought: the funeral home charges $1,000.

That is not necessary here. I wonder if it is really necessary where you all are in the NE.

[catherine]

So if you have a direct cremation, what do you do when it comes to those who want to pay respects? Come to your house--something like sitting shiva? Or maybe just have a "party" at a restaurant or other venue?

[Yppej]

So if you have a direct cremation, what do you do when it comes to those who want to pay respects? Come to your house--something like sitting shiva? Or maybe just have a "party" at a restaurant or other venue?

My MIL's ashes were spread at sea and family got together on the boat.

[razz]

Well for DH's passing in late December, the funeral home picked his body from the hospital, transported to the crematorium, helped write the death notice for the local paper, showed myself and both DD's the options of coffin, delivered the ashes and any paperwork like death notices that I needed.

When family was available some months with better weather later, we scattered the ashes in our woodlot at his favourite spot and planted some trees. Later, some friends and neighbours visited enjoying treats on the patio of my home.
Was this unusual, maybe but it worked for us. The good thing possible today is that one can choose the traditional or individual or a combo approach.

[jp1]

So if you have a direct cremation, what do you do when it comes to those who want to pay respects? Come to your house--something like sitting shiva? Or maybe just have a "party" at a restaurant or other venue?


Some people want a formal funeral of some sort. Personally I would not want any sort of formal ceremony or the atmosphere of a funeral home. A gathering at someone’s home or in a private room of a restaurant would be fine. Since my father was one of the last survivors of his generation all we did was the graveside service with military honors then we took my aunt and cousin out for a nice lunch at dad’s favorite restaurant, The Black-eyed Pea. My uncle didn’t even want that much.

[jp1]

When FIL passed he and MIL encouraged everyone to come say goodbye while he was still alive and in hospice care. There was still a funeral at his church but other than us it was mostly just local family and friends in attendance.

When people came to visit he would pretend to be asleep and MIL would encourage them to wake him. He would then roar like a tiger and swat at them like one. That did a great job of breaking the tension and was totally his personality.

[iris lilies]

So if you have a direct cremation, what do you do when it comes to those who want to pay respects? Come to your house--something like sitting shiva? Or maybe just have a "party" at a restaurant or other venue?

you organize, or have someone organize, a memorial event.

In a park, at the edge of a lake, in someone’s back yard, or at the time/place ashes are buried/interred/scattered. Same principle as a wedding. The legal stuff is very low cost. It is the gathering and the party that drives up cost.

for our friend who was shot and killed by her husband, we held a memorial gathering in our neighborhood park, then met up in one of the empty storefronts on our little “main” street for snacks. The cost was around $250.

[Teacher Terry]

When my mil died we were given a big conference room at the casino she retired from. You can rent a room there. Then after the service everyone came to our house for a meal. We had a funeral home handle it but could have done a direct cremation for 500 but didn’t know that.

[frugal-one]

The one thing I did not think about... Make sure each person has a credit card with the bill in their name. I, foolishly, assumed that because we were a marital property state, credit would be for both. Not so. It is imperative to each have separate cards (can still add other as user but no credit will established for them).