What exactly does the far right want? [Archive]

View Full Version : What exactly does the far right want?

pinkytoe

1-7-21, 12:59pm

I am perhaps naively in the middle ideologically but I continue to try and understand the gripes of the far right. Seems to me the world has changed and we all have to deal with new realities and do the best we can to carry on. Sorry guys but women have professions, the middle class is gone, we buy all our stuff from China, black and brown people are part of our society, jobs are off-shored and on and on. Going backwards to the good old days ain't gonna happen. What would make them happy?

iris lilies

1-7-21, 1:07pm

Why are you asking this audience?

ApatheticNoMore

1-7-21, 1:12pm

Yes wrong audience. But also some of those things are objectively bad (whether they are what the far right cares about I do not know).

iris lilies

1-7-21, 1:20pm

I asked the OP “why this audience?” because a huge part of overheated rhetoric in our society today is person A blathering about person B’s thoughts and opinions without person B even being in the room.

I don’t see how you will get anyone other than the usual players, JP, etc. telling us what the far right wants in sarcastic tones.

It might be useful for the more thoughtful posters here to link to well written and convincing thought pieces from the right. I’m not sure who is considered far right and that is of course another problem with the OP’s question, who is far right?

But if you’re sincere I always found a lot of editorials and articles in National Review useful.

pinkytoe

1-7-21, 1:20pm

I don't know who else to ask and I want to understand. I don't belong or spend time on other forums except for gardening forums.

ApatheticNoMore

1-7-21, 1:28pm

I say not this audience because I don't think there are that many hard core Trumpers although there are those on the right,one could say far right, but Trump is a cult of his own. You are asking what do people who think the election was stolen or who want to steal it believe (that might be much of the Republican party, but many here believe Biden legitimately won)

I think that loss of the middle class and good jobs is something progressives often care about, that some like to think Trumpers also care about, but frankly I don't know that they actually do. Now all those things might have to do with why traditional Republicanism is a hard sell as it might require people to be doing better, but Trump is just a grifter who doesn't help anyone.

If I wanted to go down that rabbit hole I might consume right wing media (Fox is too left wing for them now), see what was being fed people.

iris lilies

1-7-21, 1:30pm

I don't know who else to ask and I want to understand. I don't belong or spend time on other forums except for gardening forums.
That is a good answer except that you’re not going find good answers to your question on this website.

Try National Review for a text source. They are not far right although they reference some far right ideas no doubt.

I don’t watch tv news and I don’t watch much in the way of opinion pieces, but in the past year I have watched video interviews by Dave Rubin (among other productions ) with various thought leaders on the right. You get a good smattering of the ideas out there through Rubin’s interviews. Many of these interviews are available on YouTube. I like Dave because he’s so happy and upbeat in his delivery.

I first heard Dave Rubin on NPR, several years ago now, where he filled in for Tom Ashcraft. Ashcraft was a raging liberal, of course, it’s NPR, and here was this happy upbeat voiceed guy who called himself a “classical liberal “who made an entertaining show and treated his guests with respect.

Of course NPR didn’t continue with him because NPR,

iris lilies

1-7-21, 1:39pm

OP I’m going to ask you a question:

Will you accept JP’s characterizations of far right thought, opinions, snd goals?

Because if you do, I believe you’re not sincere about exploring the world of the far right.

LDAHL

1-7-21, 1:55pm

There’s a great piece in National Review that argues that the cure for Trumpism is Reaganism. I’m inclined to agree. IL is absolutely right about NR. If it weren’t for Bill Buckley, Russell Kirk and maybe Edmund Burke and Roger Scruton I might be a liberal today.

I would suspect we would have a difficult time agreeing here on what “far right” constitutes or what they want.

pinkytoe

1-7-21, 2:18pm

I remain open as it is my way to question everything.

bae

1-7-21, 2:59pm

What do you mean by "the far right"?

Tammy

1-7-21, 3:28pm

It’s a good question and it’s ok for any audience to consider. No questions are off the table when our democracy is at stake.

iris lilies

1-7-21, 3:40pm

It’s a good question and it’s ok for any audience to consider. No questions are off the table when our democracy is at stake.

Tammy, tell me what the far right wants then go for it babe.

pinkytoe

1-7-21, 4:01pm

iris lilies

1-7-21, 4:06pm

By far right, I mean those who hold extreme black and white beliefs. Those who ride around my neighborhood in big, loud trucks with Trump flags. Us vs them ideals. Calling others "socialists". When Trump was running for prez, I asked this forum what does "make America great again" mean anyway? And I still don't know what that means unless we agree to agree. Since it wasn't the far left who stormed the capitol bldg, I mention "far right" in particular.
Are you willing to have long conversations On multiple occasions with these people you say are driving around your neighborhood with loud trucks and Trump flags? In relaxed social atmosphere, I think that would be a good way to find out what they really “want. “

pinkytoe

1-7-21, 4:42pm

Actually, over the past year DH has gone in that direction so we have daily "conversations" where I try to understand his viewpoint. Although he doesn't personally like Trump, he defends his actions which is very upsetting to me. It all sounds like the usual rhetoric - here lately, that many votes were fraudulent. I have asked him to consider his news sources and at least give critical thought to what he is choosing to believe. Some days it feels like someone put something in the water since I just don't get the purpose of being angry all the time.

iris lilies

1-7-21, 4:50pm

bae

1-7-21, 5:16pm

By far right, I mean those who hold extreme black and white beliefs.

Well, I suppose if you get to create your own definition, you can then engage that caricatured subset of people, but...

ApatheticNoMore

1-7-21, 7:06pm

JaneV2.0

1-8-21, 11:13am

It is quite likely that some of them are just functionally insane. Pumped up with ridiculous conspiracy theories etc. They want the end to a non-existent pedophile ring. What they want could never be delivered in reality then (which is different than wanting bad things, which is bad enough but).

I wonder about this. Where have all these gullible people come from? I understand Breitbart, QAnon, 8Chan, and others are heavily promoting these--often Russian-generated*--wild-assed fables, but why don't people just snort and turn away? This is a mystery to me.

*As has been the case with many recent conspiracy theories, from the dangers supposedly posed by GMOs to some of the far-right messaging that helped elect Donald Trump, Russia has assiduously promoted misinformation with the intent of undermining trust in science and Western institutions generally.

Putin’s propaganda channels RT and Sputnik offer well-produced news-style broadcasts that serve to give legitimacy to conspiracy theories by airing them to a worldwide audience in slick-looking studio formats. As Wired has reported, as long ago as January 2019 RT was airing segments on 5G where its “correspondent,” Michele Greenstein, warned that 5G “might kill you.” (from https://allianceforscience.cornell.edu/blog/2020/04/anti-vaxxers-and-russia-behind-viral-5g-covid-conspiracy-theory/

LDAHL

1-8-21, 12:18pm

Well, I suppose if you get to create your own definition, you can then engage that caricatured subset of people, but...

Until you run out of straw.

ApatheticNoMore

1-8-21, 12:40pm

Some of the coup plotters have been pretty well shown to be Q-Anon fwiw. Some may not be, it doesn't make them any better. And that's what Q believes all that stuff.

I don't think Russia is necessary for this, here if you can make a profit off something it will be done, including promoting conspiracies. If there is a market. That so many people make an obviously dishonest living doing such things, and jump at the chance, because hey it tends to pay more than some boring old job, yea well.

iris lilies

1-8-21, 12:52pm

Well, I suppose if you get to create your own definition, you can then engage that caricatured subset of people, but...

and that subset isnt here on this website.

So, setting up men made of straw, asking them to represent others, in an arena (here) where none of the targeted group exist—this is an effective way to learn. Alrighty then.

iris lilies

1-8-21, 12:57pm

I wonder about this. Where have all these gullible people come from? I understand Breitbart, QAnon, 8Chan, and others are heavily promoting these--often Russian-generated*--wild-assed fables, but why don't people just snort and turn away? This is a mystery to me.

*As has been the case with many recent conspiracy theories, from the dangers supposedly posed by GMOs to some of the far-right messaging that helped elect Donald Trump, Russia has assiduously promoted misinformation with the intent of undermining trust in science and Western institutions generally.

Putin’s propaganda channels RT and Sputnik offer well-produced news-style broadcasts that serve to give legitimacy to conspiracy theories by airing them to a worldwide audience in slick-looking studio formats. As Wired has reported, as long ago as January 2019 RT was airing segments on 5G where its “correspondent,” Michele Greenstein, warned that 5G “might kill you.” (from https://allianceforscience.cornell.edu/blog/2020/04/anti-vaxxers-and-russia-behind-viral-5g-covid-conspiracy-theory/

The written word has awesome power. I think about that a lot. There are things I will say conversationally that I will not put in writing. Entire volumes have been written about this concept so it’s not like I’m saying something new, it’s just that I’ve observed how the written word has an effect on people that seems overly strong.

So some of these fringe ideas, if expressed often enough in writing in FB and Right leaning blogs seem to have a effect on people that perhaps human to human contact with the same information coming out of someone’s mouth might not.

This is just a theory.

pinkytoe

1-8-21, 1:08pm

Well then. Let's just close the book on this topic. I am off to take a long walk and think of other things.

JaneV2.0

1-8-21, 1:49pm

The written word has awesome power. I think about that a lot. There are things I will say conversationally that I will not put in writing. Entire volumes have been written about this concept so it’s not like I’m saying something new, it’s just that I’ve observed how the written word has an effect on people that seems overly strong.

So some of these fringe ideas, if expressed often enough in writing in FB and Right leaning blogs seem to have a effect on people that perhaps human to human contact with the same information coming out of someone’s mouth might not.

This is just a theory.

"Besides, as the vilest Writer has his Readers, so the greatest Liar has his Believers; and it often happens, that if a Lie be believ’d only for an Hour, it has done its Work, and there is no farther occasion for it. Falsehood flies, and the Truth comes limping after it; so that when Men come to be undeceiv’d, it is too late; the Jest is over, and the Tale has had its Effect…” Jonathan Swift, who was clearly on to something

JaneV2.0

1-8-21, 1:57pm

I've entertained a lot of what could be called fringe ideas, as in what if there were eleven dimensions, or Bigfoot, or an unseen planet orbiting our sun, but I haven't taken up arms and rushed into the fray to defend any of them, or kill or die for them. Yeah, all of Hollywood and half the population consists of flesh-eating pedophiles. Right. :doh:

catherine

1-19-21, 9:56am

The written word has awesome power. I think about that a lot. There are things I will say conversationally that I will not put in writing. Entire volumes have been written about this concept so it’s not like I’m saying something new, it’s just that I’ve observed how the written word has an effect on people that seems overly strong.

So some of these fringe ideas, if expressed often enough in writing in FB and Right leaning blogs seem to have a effect on people that perhaps human to human contact with the same information coming out of someone’s mouth might not.

This is just a theory.

A theory, but one that I heartily believe. The pen is definitely mightier than the sword. Whether it's a ideology, conspiracy, dogma or laundry detergent you're peddling, the right turn of phrase can capture a lot of followers, devotees or consumers. It's an interesting distinction of being human.

GeorgeParker

1-19-21, 10:22am

What exactly does the far right want?

They want to be in charge of the national government, and all 50 state governments, and all 50,000? county and city governments.

And the far left wants to be in charge of all that just as much as the far right does.

The job of all us people in the middle is to make sure neither left or right steers us into an iceberg or drives us off a cliff by gaining enough power to have total control. We do that by leaning a little farther left when things are moving too far to the right, and leaning a little to the right when things are moving too far to the left.

Gardnr

1-19-21, 12:02pm

They want whatever they don't have. Really, they don't know.