View Full Version : Will You Get a Booster Shot?
I can't find the post but I think it was Tybee who said she and her husband will not because of the effect on their arms.
Now I am thinking this way as well. My brother told me boosters add maybe 1% efficacy to the shot and I don't think it is worth it given my second dose reaction. After the first dose my arm was sore enough I had trouble sleeping despite taking acetaminophen, but now it is much worse. I can't lift my arm above my waist. It is not only sore but weak. This morning I tried following my routine of holding the toilet paper roll with one hand and tearing off squares with the other and I couldn't do it.
I'm also angry that the government hasn't done a good job of shutting down air travel to places like India, Brazil, the UK and South Africa where variants have come from. This was what kept New Zealand safe, and Canada still has its border to the US shut. But even when there have been travel bans there have been exceptions for US citizens, as if a virus can detect a person's nationality. I'm not jetting around the world causing the variants issue, people like Ted Cruz are.
Sure, I'll get a booster shot if and when they become available. I get a yearly flu shot too.
I always get a bit of a sore arm after an injection, nothing serious, something along the lines of the after-effect of getting a slug bug when you're a kid. I felt the same after my first covid shot but oddly enough not after my second, the lady who jabbed me must have mastered the art.
It wasn't the effect on our arms. I had hives on my face after the second one. Not sure why my husband said he would not but he won't get flu shots. I did not used to get flu shots after one put me in the hospital with allergic reaction.
I am sorry about your arm; hopefully it will return to normal soon!
The 2nd vaccine with Pfizer and Moderna gets us into the high 90s ranging 95-97%. Your brother is wrong.
Will I get boosters in the future? Absolutely. Just like the flu, I'd prefer a non-case or mild-case of Covid if I'm going to get it.
It wasn't the effect on our arms. I had hives on my face after the second one.
One of my patients this week said she had hives with the first Pfizer about 1 hour after. She took a Benadryl and it resolved quickly. She got her 2nd one and was going to take a Benadryl as a pre-emptive strike as soon as she got home.
Hives alone may not be serious, but if you have them along with swollen lips or wheezing, they could be a warning sign of a more severe reaction.
iris lilies
5-29-21, 9:06am
Yes I will get a booster. Now that I am into the grind of dr visiting I get all of the recommended vaccinations. I have not had a reaction to any of them.
The 2nd vaccine with Pfizer and Moderna gets us into the high 90s ranging 95-97%. Your brother is wrong.
Will I get boosters in the future? Absolutely. Just like the flu, I'd prefer a non-case of mild-case of Covid if I'm going to get it.
I am talking about additional boosters after the second shot.
Absolutely. I will get a booster as soon as I hear that it is recommended by those I trust. I get the flu shot every year and the pneumonia one whenever my doctor tells me I need it. Of all my systems, the respiratory system is weakest. No reactions noticed to anything.
With all due respect to your brother, I will get the booster whenever indicated. For the same reason I get an annual flu shot or keep up to date on tetanus or made sure I got covered for Shingles. Anything that significantly improves the probability of staying well is worth it.
happystuff
5-29-21, 10:20am
Yes to the booster.
Thanks for the info about the hives! One of my kids just got their second Moderna this past Monday. Ran the full gambit of side effects, but came through well. Then on Thursday had what I am now thinking were hives. All cleared less than 24 hours later, but now we know what it probably was.
Of course I will get the booster if it becomes available. Otherwise the evil dictators will try to make me wear a mask when I go to the store to try on clothes. I read about that on the internet somewhere so I’m sure it must be true.
ApatheticNoMore
5-29-21, 1:02pm
I'm not sure boosters will be necessary, so we are getting way ahead of ourselves and the science IMO. I mean the latest studies seem to suggest immunity lasts a long time. The yearly boosters have been a line in the media, but it's always seemed way more uncertain to me if they will be needed. I don't know. So I'll wait and see is the answer which since we don't have boosters now anyway .... It's like would you take statins if you had a heart attack, don't know, I'm not there.
I wouldn't take statins under any condition, and I agree that I'd have to be convinced boosters were necessary before I signed on. Preliminary tests show that natural immunity to COVID persists in the bone marrow--not sure about medically-induced immunity. At any rate, I have very little exposure to pathogens and will for the foreseeable future.
happystuff
5-30-21, 12:08pm
Several good points made about potential boosters. While I initially said "yes" and probably still will, I agree with ANM and others about taking the "wait and see" approach. I think there is going to be a lot more information as time goes on.
Several good points made about potential boosters. While I initially said "yes" and probably still will, I agree with ANM and others about taking the "wait and see" approach. I think there is going to be a lot more information as time goes on.
If research shows immunity lasts, they won't be recommended. Hence, my yes. If boosters are offered, I will take it.
TDAP isn't recommended to sell the vaccine-it's recommended to prevent Tetanus.
I will follow the advice of the medical director of my infectious disease control team in this matter, and not Yppej’s brother.
I will follow the advice of respected research, which at this point has basically been the CDC or Fauci.
I wonder if the government will pick up the bill for any future boosters, or if it will be like the flu shot. I assume they've covered the costs so far, although they did ask for my insurance card at the pharmacy where I got my first shots.
I will follow the advice of respected research, which at this point has basically been the CDC or Fauci.
I wonder if the government will pick up the bill for any future boosters, or if it will be like the flu shot. I assume they've covered the costs so far, although they did ask for my insurance card at the pharmacy where I got my first shots.
The CDC and Fauci are both subject to political pressure. One reason I trust my brother, who has a science degree, is he isn't tiptoeing around Trump, or changing his story on masks depending on how badly the health care lobby wants them at the moment, etc. A couple weeks after Walensky was talking about a sense of impending doom she opened up the country and then a couple weeks after that went to a mass gathering where she threw out the first pitch in a packed stadium, all because the governor of Utah complained to Biden about masks.
happystuff
5-30-21, 2:53pm
bae and Rogar - I agree 100% with who to listen to. My sibling, who has a Doctorate science degree, recommends following the same reliable, educated resources and researches - i.e. CDC, infectious disease experts, Dr. Fauci, etc..
Yppej, who exactly is putting political pressure on fauci and the cdc to push for booster shots?
ApatheticNoMore
5-30-21, 5:04pm
truthfully since the authorities kept getting things wrong (and were (are?) deeply politically corrupted) I started getting pandemic advice from twitter in the middle of the pandemic. Sad I know, sad. I knew it was kinda crazy but it seemed the only sane thing. I followed Gregg Gonsalves, and Carl T. Bergstrom and Caitlin Rivers. Zeynep Tufekci the sociologist writer for the Atlantic is a kind of genius (I even made it through an Ed Yong or two piece too). I found them late but journalist David Wallace Wells (yes the Uninhabitable Earth) was also insightful although I wouldn't take final advice from them. etc. etc. etc.
There were major failures at the CDC and the WHO (from why did they get initial testing wrong with the CDC, to why didn't they acknowledge airborne transmission until long after it mattered - was it too inconvenient a truth?). I don't posit deliberate (sometimes you do wonder, but that's a high burden of proof shall we say) but we're not even going to evaluate what went wrong and just pretend they got things right? Gah, well that will sure prepare us for the next pandemic!
The case for the vaccine was just: what do you want to take your chances with covid or the vaccine? Because you can run but you can't hide forever from the virus. Uh duh the vaccine. Boosters, it's weaker as we don't even know how long immunity lasts, so convince me I even need a booster. Do I trust the current state of medicine? Oh gosh no, but this one disease is the most studied on earth right now, so there is that. But one still has to make health care decisions (like getting a vaccine) with imperfect information in the world as it is now.
Yppej, who exactly is putting political pressure on fauci and the cdc to push for booster shots?
They're not doing this yet but it's very plausible that pharmaceutical companies and politicians who accept donations from pharmaceutical companies will. There is a revolving door between the industry and regulators. For instance, Scott Gottlieb who was the FDA commissioner is now on the board of Pfizer. Lobbying is another profession involved in this revolving door.
If you don't think there is a lot of politics behind medicine in this country ask yourself why the US is the only industrialized country without a single payer system despite the fact that we pay much more and have worse health outcomes than other economically advanced nations. Also ask why Biden has been completely silent on the public option he ran on now that he is in office even while he pushes for every other type of government expenditure under the sun.
ApatheticNoMore
5-30-21, 5:36pm
Ok but there will be studies on immunity and how long it lasts, and I don't believe all the studies are corrupt. Sometimes they have flaws of course. But whether to get a booster before the data is in if it comes to that hmm ...
Single payer is really an entirely different issue wiht almost no overlap with this discussion. I do think single payer systems maybe esp fully socialized ones (NHS in the UK) often care more about their citizens health because they foot the bill (a cost not a profit center), BUT this is a global issue! It's not about the u.s. alone
happystuff
5-30-21, 5:40pm
But one still has to make health care decisions (like getting a vaccine) with imperfect information in the world as it is now.
In my opinion, this kind of sums up the rest of your post and I agree... the point is that the information keeps changing AS MORE IS LEARNED about this disease! The learning is continuous so the responses will change as information is gained. And, yes, we each need to make our own decisions based on what is learned and what we believe, but that has always been the way, hasn't it? Sadly, these days, a wrong choice doesn't just mean illness, but actually death - not just for ourselves, but for others/everyone.
An interesting read on why the six foot rule about transmission is wrong.
TLDR version: it was based on flawed assumptions from long long ago that had never been further tested.
https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/?utm_source=pocket-newtab
ApatheticNoMore
5-30-21, 8:10pm
What surprised me is how long it took to learn things, how slow it was acknowledged by the powers that be long after we knew, how deep the inertia. I mean I suppose it's relative, not slow in geological time :), but really I imagine at this point there are things medicine has been getting wrong for 40 years and still is frankly, that's about how I see it. But it sure seemed slow in pandemic time while people were dying in a pandemic, a bit too convenient how slow it all was.
As someone with the perspective of living through the HIV epidemic I am impressed by how quickly science moved with covid. It was several years into the HIV epidemic before the transmission method was solidly established. A time during which many many many gay men (mostly) passed away without having a clue what was killing all of their friends.* And many more years where the only thing for gay men to do to keep themselves safe was to wear the HIV equivalent of a mask anytime they had sex. And even today we STILL don't have a vaccine for HIV, just prophylactic treatment that has to be taken regularly by anyone who is sexually active and not monogamous. And lifelong expensive meds for people who contract the disease. The fact that it took just a few months before it was recommended that people wear masks to reduce covid spread and less than a year before we had several excellent vaccines seems incredible to me.
*One of my two best friends in the world is a 72 year old gay man. Of all the friends he had 30-40 years ago only a couple are still alive today. Most died long ago from HIV related illnesses. Being 18 years younger I'm fortunate to only have a handful of friends who were killed by HIV.
What surprised me is how long it took to learn things, how slow it was acknowledged by the powers that be long after we knew, how deep the inertia. I mean I suppose it's relative, not slow in geological time :), but really I imagine at this point there are things medicine has been getting wrong for 40 years and still is frankly, that's about how I see it. But it sure seemed slow in pandemic time while people were dying in a pandemic, a bit too convenient how slow it all was.
Do remember that President Trump was muzzling Dr Fauci and Dr Birx as well as the CDC. He did NOT rely on the experts. What they knew had to "leak out" for quite some time.
Do remember that President Trump was muzzling Dr Fauci and Dr Birx as well as the CDC. He did NOT rely on the experts. What they knew had to "leak out" for quite some time.
He proudly boasted that he mostly ignored Dr. Fauci's recommendations anyway. No surprise there.
He proudly boasted that he mostly ignored Dr. Fauci's recommendations anyway. No surprise there.
His super spreader events were ridiculous. Secret Service agents unnecessarily ill. Among all the other travesties of how he (didn't) handle the pandemic. Yet his followers continue to think he's the best ever:(
Studies are starting to come out regarding the length and effectiveness of the vaccines. So far it's looking like they work better and for longer than people originally thought would be the case.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/28/health/coronavirus-vaccine-immunity.html?utm_source=pocket-newtab
Teacher Terry
7-3-21, 7:37pm
This is great news JP!
dado potato
7-31-21, 10:15am
Studies are starting to come out regarding the length and effectiveness of the vaccines. So far it's looking like they work better and for longer than people originally thought would be the case.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/28/health/coronavirus-vaccine-immunity.html?utm_source=pocket-newtab
The NY Times report stated that "older adults may need boosters".
On July 30, Israel began to administer booster shots to residents older than 60, who received Pfizer vaccine at least 5 months ago.
Elsewhere in the news, Derrick Rossi, one of the co-developers of Moderna vaccine, said "a regular booster shot will almost certainly be needed". I understand that Moderna began developing a booster vaccine in February.
I will not be getting a booster unless required by my job (as in... no booster = must wear mask). I don't think my husband or boys will get one either but pretty sure Mom and sister would. Not sure about my brother but if I had to guess... I'd say no.
iris lilies
7-31-21, 1:07pm
Studies are starting to come out regarding the length and effectiveness of the vaccines. So far it's looking like they work better and for longer than people originally thought would be the case.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/28/health/coronavirus-vaccine-immunity.html?utm_source=pocket-newtab
or not
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21030483-outbreak-of-sars-cov-2-infections-including-covid-19-vaccine-breakthrough-infections-associated-with-large-public-gatherings-massachusetts-july-30-2021
tldr first study cited: 3/4 cases of Covid appeared in those fully vaccinated
Amoung 5 covid patients hospitalized, 4 were fully vaccinated.
But I am not worried and I will stay away from large crowds of humans including flying through the air with them and hanging out in airports even if in the business class lounge.
or not
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21030483-outbreak-of-sars-cov-2-infections-including-covid-19-vaccine-breakthrough-infections-associated-with-large-public-gatherings-massachusetts-july-30-2021
tldr first study cited: 3/4 cases of Covid appeared in those fully vaccinated
Amoung 5 covid patients hospitalized, 4 were fully vaccinated.
Certainly that's less than perfect, but I'd say having only 1 out of every 100 infected people wind up in the hospital, and none in the morgue is a reasonably good outcome.
It would be informative if they had mentioned what vaccine the hospitalized had. (or maybe not if it turned out to be a random assortment of all three)
iris lilies
7-31-21, 6:43pm
Certainly that's less than perfect, but I'd say having only 1 out of every 100 infected people wind up in the hospital, and none in the morgue is a reasonably good outcome.
It would be informative if they had mentioned what vaccine the hospitalized had. (or maybe not if it turned out to be a random assortment of all three)
I am not able to read the New York Times article that you cite talking about how vaccines are better than originally thought. Therefore, I am not able to argue quantifiably whether current knowledge of July 31, 2021 shows vaccine(s) better and to what degree than the posits of yesteryear.
I am not conceding this point.
I will agree that the Covid vaccine is a good thing. Some of them better than others and probably diminishing in expectation and performance. If you want to call that status “better” I guess you may.
Moderate illness, even with 1% of infecteds needing hospitalization, but none dying certainly seems better than what happened pre-vaccinations. Especially as the delta variant is way more transmissible.
Imagine the horror show that hot spots like NYC last spring would have been if it had been the delta variant plowing through the population. Or most of the country in December/January. Hospitals were already maxed out in those situations. If infection rates had been significantly higher we would have seen the death toll skyrocket as the healthcare system collapsed from the burden and people who could have survived with treatment were left to die for lack of treatment.
I think the consensus in my area regarding mandates and the vaccine is that if people wanted to get vaccinated, they would be by now. There aren't any restrictions on it like there was when it first came out. Anyone who wants it can get it. Some are reluctant because they think they don't need it or are concerned that it isn't FDA approved. At this point, when will "free will" be accepted and life goes back to normal (and no... not the new normal. The real normal)? I know a lot of people who feel that if we choose to not get vaccinated and get Covid and die, that was your choice. And the whole "vaccinated people should wear masks so as not to infect unvaccinated people" is a load of bs. America is based on a land where people are free to choose so why isn't this the case with the vaccine? If you want to roll the dice, so be it. JMO
If you want to roll the dice, so be it. JMO
Because with this virus and the variants, a person's decision and behaviors aren't affecting JUST themselves, but are impacting others.
Because with this virus and the variants, a person's decision and behaviors aren't affecting JUST themselves, but are impacting others.
Same with smoking, overeating, and a host of other behaviors that kill people and drive up healthcare costs for everyone else. Remind me again how successful the extremely well financed presidential campaign of Michael I'm Going To Ban Big Gulp Sodas Bloomberg was.
I'm fat, and I guarantee you I've never "driven up healthcare costs." Don't forget people who bear children, rock climbers and other adventurers, drinkers, hypochondriacs, people with mental illness, etc. etc. while you're vilifying people. Mostly what drives up health care costs in this country is simple greed.
iris lilies
8-1-21, 1:22pm
I'm fat, and I guarantee you I've never "driven up healthcare costs." Don't forget people who bear children, rock climbers and other adventurers, drinkers, hypochondriacs, people with mental illness, etc. etc. while you're vilifying people. Mostly what drives up health care costs in this country is simple greed.
No we haven’t…not yet. Our time will come.
My hope has been that my massive heart attack happens in my sleep and about 6 months before obvious signs of dementia kick in.
I wouldn’t be surprised if dementia is shown to be a super expensive illness cor the taxpayers in nursing home /Medicaid costs. But I haven’t looked into that, so I do not know.
Most people--fat or thin--rack up the bulk of their medical costs in the last months of their lives. Like you, I hope for a quick, merciful end.
I certainly don't want an expensive entanglement with--to paraphrase Dwight Eisenhower--the medical-industrial complex.
Same with smoking, overeating, and a host of other behaviors that kill people and drive up healthcare costs for everyone else. Remind me again how successful the extremely well financed presidential campaign of Michael I'm Going To Ban Big Gulp Sodas Bloomberg was.
False equivalence. When overeating starts killing the people the overeater comes in contact with come back and try again. And we dealt with the risk smokers place on others by making them go outside to smoke now.
False equivalence. When overeating starts killing the people the overeater comes in contact with come back and try again. And we dealt with the risk smokers place on others by making them go outside to smoke now.
The overeater sets patterns that pass on to the next generation. Children with two obese parents are 10 to 12 times more likely to be obese. Source: NIH
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3671382/#:~:text=Another%20important%20risk%20factor%20for ,more%20likely%20to%20be%20obese.
Children are also more likely to smoke if their parents smoke.
I think the genetic connection to weight is pretty well established.
I think the genetic connection to weight is pretty well established.
True. It's not like a fat person will get in close physical proximity of someone and cause that someone to get fat.
True. It's not like a fat person will get in close physical proximity of someone and cause that someone to get fat.
If they keep offering them fattening foods it will. I have gained a lot of weight at my current job because of this.
ApatheticNoMore
8-1-21, 4:17pm
It's not like a fat person will get in close physical proximity of someone and cause that someone to get fat.
well maybe, since some infections do have a link with obesity. I doubt it's that easily transmitted, families or partners maybe, but "i caught it at the hardware store", seems about as likely as I caught syphilis there. :~) And all this is about obesity and infections is pretty speculative, you can definitely catch covid from strangers somewhere.
If they keep offering them fattening foods it will. I have gained a lot of weight at my current job because of this.
Not necessarily. I never "caught" obesity from co-workers, family members or friends.
Not necessarily. I never "caught" obesity from co-workers, family members or friends.
Too bad it doesn't work, rosa, as I would LOVE to "catch" skinny from my thin co-workers, family members or friends!!!! :D
Things like gun violence are described as an epidemic and social diseases like this are often described surprisingly well using an epidemiological framework.
I wonder if anyone ever tries to describe gun violence as genetic rather than viral.
A study came out of South Africa today that found that the J&J shot works just as well against delta as it did in the original trials. I still may decide to get a supplemental of one of the mRNAs but will hold off for now. If I were at higher risk from the various known comorbidities I’d probably reach a different decision.
Can someone link to a Covid data set where there is a discrete category for ages 0-12?
I would like to see the national figures for cases, hospitalizations, and death among children for whom there is no vaccine currently. International figures would be helpful, too.
I think young children should be among those we consider when we're deciding whether or not to wear masks as it seems we can transmit the Delta variant whether or not we are vaccinated.
Thanks.
Simone here is a link:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/
Of over 600,000 deaths 337 are among children under 18 years old.
Simone here is a link:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/
Of over 600,000 deaths 337 are among children under 18 years old.
Thanks, Jeppy, but what I'm trying to do is focus in specifically on ages 0-12. Those are the kids for whom there is no vaccine.
Trying to figure out what extra steps to take, if any, to try to protect them.
Thanks, Jeppy, but what I'm trying to do is focus in specifically on ages 0-12. Those are the kids for whom there is no vaccine.
Trying to figure out what extra steps to take, if any, to try to protect them.
Well, they better figure it out soon:
In Florida, which has the second-highest rate of new cases per capita after Louisiana, children's hospitals and staff are "overwhelmed," said Dr. Aileen Marty, an infectious disease expert at Florida International University.
"The numbers of cases in our hospitals in children and our children's hospitals are completely overwhelmed," Marty told CNN's Jim Sciutto on Friday evening.
"Our pediatricians, the nursing, the staff are exhausted, and the children are suffering. And it is absolutely devastating. ... Our children are very much affected. We've never seen numbers like this before," she said.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/07/health/us-coronavirus-saturday/index.html
iris lilies
8-7-21, 2:51pm
Well, they better figure it out soon:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/07/health/us-coronavirus-saturday/index.html
They may have to pivot opposite of how St. Louis did last year by setting up the Children’s hospitals to accept adult non-critical care patients.
In Florida more space may need to be devoted to nom critical under 18 patients.
Don’t accuse me of saying this all is easy because of course it is not.
Maybe the data are becoming more available.
I found this in an Orlando Sentinel article:
COVID-19 positive cases in Florida’s children are at an all-time high. During the week of July 23 to 29, Florida reported 10,785 new cases in children under 12, with an 18.2% positivity rate. People 12 to 19-year-olds had 11,048 new cases, with a 22.2% positivity rate statewide — the second-highest positivity rate of any age group.
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/coronavirus/os-ne-coronavirus-pediatric-cases-deaths-children-20210805-lrwgqw7wpbcsrosrsxqzpnutwe-story.html
Unhappily, must again consider what risk we vaccinated parents/grandparents/family pose to young children. So many questions arise about safety from pregnancy onward.
So many questions arise about safety from pregnancy onward.
My niece, some months pregnant, lost her baby when she contracted COVID. And she's now a long-covid sufferer.
Unhappily, must again consider what risk we vaccinated parents/grandparents/family pose to young children. So many questions arise about safety from pregnancy onward.
I agree. I can't imagine being a parent of a young child with all this going on and the risks to them at this point in time.
My niece, some months pregnant, lost her baby when she contracted COVID. And she's now a long-covid sufferer.
I remember when you first posted the death of baby, bae. I'm sorry your niece is still suffering long-term effects from covid. I hope she is able to heal quickly and completely.
Maybe the data are becoming more available.
I found this in an Orlando Sentinel article:
COVID-19 positive cases in Florida’s children are at an all-time high. During the week of July 23 to 29, Florida reported 10,785 new cases in children under 12, with an 18.2% positivity rate. People 12 to 19-year-olds had 11,048 new cases, with a 22.2% positivity rate statewide — the second-highest positivity rate of any age group.
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/coronavirus/os-ne-coronavirus-pediatric-cases-deaths-children-20210805-lrwgqw7wpbcsrosrsxqzpnutwe-story.html
Unhappily, must again consider what risk we vaccinated parents/grandparents/family pose to young children. So many questions arise about safety from pregnancy onward.
To me positivity rates don't matter, it's what are the chances of children getting seriously ill and dying? Those numbers are still so low they were not even visible on the chart I posted a link to, which was recent data through July 2021.
I think of covid in children like nematodes. I learned in science class years ago that tiny worms called nematodes are in everyone's body. Now nematodes can cause medical problems but it's extremely rare and I don't personally know anyone who has suffered from a nematode related illness. You probably don't either. If we were tested for nematodes we would all come up positive but so what?
Isn't it possible though that a new variant might come around that does kill or sicken healthy children in substantial numbers? People might be reacting differently concerning vaccines in that scenario.
iris lilies
8-8-21, 3:49pm
Isn't it possible though that a new variant might come around that does kill or sicken healthy children in substantial numbers? People might be reacting differently concerning vaccines in that scenario.
Yes. Certainly the latest version seems to take out younger folks.
COVID incidence has surge 84% among children in the last week--a disturbing trend.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2021/08/04/covid-cases-among-children-jumped-84-last-week-here-are-the-states-where-hospitalizations-are-increasing/?sh=7c90c4f43be9
Isn't it possible though that a new variant might come around that does kill or sicken healthy children in substantial numbers? People might be reacting differently concerning vaccines in that scenario.
Sure, anything could happen, but sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. Don't borrow trouble from tomorrow. Don't worry be happy. Make hay while the sun shines. Carpe diem. Worrying never solved anything.
COVID incidence has surge 84% among children in the last week--a disturbing trend.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2021/08/04/covid-cases-among-children-jumped-84-last-week-here-are-the-states-where-hospitalizations-are-increasing/?sh=7c90c4f43be9
I agree about not borrowing trouble, but I spend a lot of time around my two young grandchildren, and this makes me think things like, should I not be going to the four-year-old's birthday party next week?
Earlier in the pandemic I saw a local news story on what types of children were being hospitalized with covid. They were obese children. Tybee, if your grandchild is obese you may wish to be cautious, otherwise I would enjoy the party.
There are tiny infants being diagnosed now.
Earlier in the pandemic I saw a local news story on what types of children were being hospitalized with covid. They were obese children. Tybee, if your grandchild is obese you may wish to be cautious, otherwise I would enjoy the party.
Amazing. Simply amazing.
I agree about not borrowing trouble, but I spend a lot of time around my two young grandchildren, and this makes me think things like, should I not be going to the four-year-old's birthday party next week?
If I were in your shoes I would probably do like my vaccinated coworker is doing. His frail grandmother is in the hospital. Coworker and his GF have gone back to avoiding most people as much as possible because he doesn't want to risk bringing covid to his grandmother.
Teacher Terry
8-9-21, 4:12pm
The article you posted Jane about children is very concerning. Tybee, I am not sure what I would do if I had young grandchildren.
There are always exceptions to prove the rule, but people are so afraid to be politically incorrect and talk about covid risk factors like obesity that they would rather make everyone paranoid that they could die, shut down our economy, and saddle us with a deficit we will never get out from under.
I remember clearly a customer of ours who works in a health care facility that serves all ages telling us all their covid deaths were among morbidly obese elderly patients. Look enough and you'll find some exceptions and if you're a nervous nelly you can then spend the rest of your life terrified because covid will never go away, it will just go dormant.
Around and around they go....
Watching the news now. 400 children in the US have died from covid. In a given flu season between 34 and 200 children die of the flu. So covid, which has been around two winters aka flu seasons, has the death toll of two back to back bad flu seasons. 200 + 200 = 400. No mortality difference between the flu and covid in children.
ApatheticNoMore
8-9-21, 6:45pm
The way I see it there are a lot of unknowns, do vaccinated people transmit much, we really don't know. I'd guess probably not but we don't know, sometimes they do. Are children at greater risk of Delta than say Alpha, well I certainly don't know.
Although in yeppej's view it's all some Calvanist morality tale, because some 3rd hand information that happens to back her conclusions from 8 months ago.
I mean it's definitely not ALL elderly people, come on, anyone watching any data and I periodically look at local data, would NEVER conclude that. But someone somewhere said so ...
I'm not saying it's a lot of kids either, it's not mostly.
I'm not stressing the pandemic that much right now, but I'm not knowingly interacting with unvaccinated people either (that includes kids of course).
I wonder how many children end up in the hospital because of flu in a normal year since there are stories out there of children’s hospitals taking in a lot of covid cases. Time will also tell as to how many covid children have long term damage from it.
Around and around they go....
LOL. Have you expected anything different than far-fetched "what if" scenarios and insensitive "it's only ____ number of deaths so it's okay" in these responses?
Then, again, "around and around they go... " does sum it up nicely. ;)
Simone here is a link:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/
Of over 600,000 deaths 337 are among children under 18 years old.
Here again is the link, now updated through August 4th. 79% of deaths are among those 65 or over. An additional 16% are between 50 and 64. Total over age 50 = 95% of covid deaths. The idea that covid targets younger people is a lie.
ApatheticNoMore
8-9-21, 7:29pm
But that's mostly the Alpha variant and the question is what if anything Delta changes.
And wow is that not matching local data, where 6.59% of deaths were between 30 and 49. Maybe that's why every day there were some. Under 30 it's low. And under 65 were 28-30% of the deaths.
But that's mostly the Alpha variant and the question is what if anything Delta changes.
And wow is that not matching local data, where 6.59% of deaths were between 30 and 49. Maybe that's why every day there were some. Under 30 it's low. And under 65 were 28-30% of the deaths.
The reason delta seems more dangerous to children is that fewer adults are getting it because they are vaccinated. If there were no vaccine adults would be dying in droves like they did in India. It's not that delta targets children.
Teacher Terry
8-10-21, 12:32am
Around and around we go is making my head hurt again. Ugh!
Apparently covid is dangerous enough to kids that Houston has run out of bed space at their pediatric hospitals.
https://abc13.com/houston-coronavirus-11-month-old-girl-with-covid-baby-treated-at-hospital-150-miles-away-hospitals-running-out-of-space-for-patients/10933199/
We were saying no to boosters and now with delta variants and the kids still not vaccinated, I think we have changed our minds and would do a booster if it might help curtail spread of delta et al.
Just looked up the data for Maine, which just reached 80% of people who can be vaccinated, vaccinated, which is great.
The largest group getting covid are the under 20's, at 18.3 percent.
The smallest group getting covid are the over 80's and over 70's, at 4 and 5 percent respectively.
Proof to me at least that vaccines are working.
iris lilies
8-12-21, 12:11pm
Just looked up the data for Maine, which just reached 80% of people who can be vaccinated, vaccinated, which is great.
The largest group getting covid are the under 20's, at 18.3 percent.
The smallest group getting covid are the over 80's and over 70's, at 4 and 5 percent respectively.
Proof to me at least that vaccines are working.
oh vaccines are definately working! There was a great graphic that showed for each day the percentage of Covid cases in vaccinated people. Small percentages. Wish I could find it now.
Of course that doesn’t address the under 12 crowd but I don’t have that worry in my life so I don’t key into it.
Philosophically, I have to admire Mother Nature who is sick and tired of so many damn humans on the planet, and thwarted now from knocking off the old folks (always her first choice!) she has turned her wrath to youngsters now.
iris lilies
8-12-21, 12:32pm
I wonder how many children end up in the hospital because of flu in a normal year since there are stories out there of children’s hospitals taking in a lot of covid cases. Time will also tell as to how many covid children have long term damage from it.
Actually, [ SNARK ALERT! WARNING WARNING] I wonder if the mommies in our neighborhood now will keep their children off the playground equipment.
Last summer the City roped off playground equipment but the children could not be denied their playtime so….never mind COVID restrictions. We must bow to the wants of the children.
But that said, I do not know if the city has reiterated playground equipment restrictions. What is the point of it anyway.
Philosophically, I have to admire Mother Nature who is sick and tired of so many damn humans on the planet, and thwarted now from knocking off the old folks (always her first choice!) she has turned her wrath to youngsters now.
And to think that so many of us believe that we are the ONLY sentient beings and the ONLY ones in charge.
Apparently covid is dangerous enough to kids that Houston has run out of bed space at their pediatric hospitals.
https://abc13.com/houston-coronavirus-11-month-old-girl-with-covid-baby-treated-at-hospital-150-miles-away-hospitals-running-out-of-space-for-patients/10933199/
A lot of kids are being hospitalized for RSV. Just because a pediatric ward is full does not mean huge numbers of kids are getting covid.
happystuff
8-12-21, 9:13pm
And to think that so many of us believe that we are the ONLY sentient beings and the ONLY ones in charge.
I agree. I liken many of the events going on as the earth trying to shake off as many humans as it can the way a dog shakes water from its fur. Eventually the dog gets free of the water....
frugal-one
8-12-21, 9:21pm
Actually, [ SNARK ALERT! WARNING WARNING] I wonder if the mommies in our neighborhood now will keep their children off the playground equipment.
Last summer the City roped off playground equipment but the children could not be denied their playtime so….never mind COVID restrictions. We must bow to the wants of the children.
But that said, I do not know if the city has reiterated playground equipment restrictions. What is the point of it anyway.
That was the time when we were all cleaning everything because we did not know exactly how COVID was transmitted. We even cleaned groceries before putting them away!
A lot of kids are being hospitalized for RSV. Just because a pediatric ward is full does not mean huge numbers of kids are getting covid.
If every ward in the city is full and time has to be spent transferring him/her to another city does it matter to that kid that needs a bed why they are all full? The fact that time has to be lost transferring the kid is all that matters. Hospital beds are limited resources. Not doing what each of us reasonably can to avoid needing them is a selfish act.
Teacher Terry
8-12-21, 9:27pm
I never cleaned my groceries. That always seemed like a bridge too far.
Actually, [ SNARK ALERT! WARNING WARNING] I wonder if the mommies in our neighborhood now will keep their children off the playground equipment.
Last summer the City roped off playground equipment but the children could not be denied their playtime so….never mind COVID restrictions. We must bow to the wants of the children.
But that said, I do not know if the city has reiterated playground equipment restrictions. What is the point of it anyway.
Hopefully the public health officials have taken to heart that we have learned that fomites are not a major source of transmission. Judging from the display of cheap pints of sanitizer I saw on sale at Safeway a couple of weeks ago I think at least the general public has gotten that message. (We have enough sanitizer to last the rest of our lives…)
happystuff
8-12-21, 9:28pm
That was the time when we were all cleaning everything because we did not know exactly how COVID was transmitted. We even cleaned groceries before putting them away!
And, at the time, while those precautions may have been an extra step, at least it was a safety measure folks were willing to do. It's called live and learn, although some folks can't move forward. With every day, more and more is being learned about Covid and the variants, so - yes - as we learn more, things change and as things change, we learn more! Being able to move forward, even if it means repeating a precaution, is still moving forward - but some folks can't see that. Heaven forbid they be inconvenience... again!
happystuff
8-12-21, 9:32pm
I never cleaned my groceries. That always seemed like a bridge too far.
I never did, but I had a sister who did - religiously! But then her husband was a transplant recipient as well as cancer patient doing both chemo and radiation! She was willing to do ANYTHING to keep Covid away! Bless her and him. (This was the bil who passed a little while back - NOT from Covid, I believe due to her vigilance!)
Teacher Terry
8-12-21, 9:38pm
Happy, definitely your sister had a completely different situation.
happystuff
8-12-21, 9:42pm
Happy, definitely your sister had a completely different situation.
Oh, I totally agree! But the ripple effect went through HIS side of the family and HER side of the family and included close friends, etc. I guess that is part of my point and where the compassion for others comes into play - when you care, you take the extra steps regardless of whether it's a *sure thing* or not. Especially when some of the extra steps are soooo simple! And I guess - for many folks - it depends who those *others* actually are - family, friends, strangers....
And that is just it. The ripple effects. The thing that infuriates me about the death positive governors of Texas and Florida is that they just don’t care about the ripple effects. All those kids going to school maskless will mostly survive. At least at a high enough rate that yppej would approve. But they don’t live in a vacuum. They have families and grandparents and neighbors and other people they will encounter at that god forsaken 4th birthday party of their younger sibling at chuck e cheese who may not be so fortunate if they get infected.
happystuff
8-12-21, 10:18pm
And to talk about the deaths as "numbers" and what is "acceptable" or "expected" or "not so bad" is just heartless, cruel and soooo lacking in compassion! One of those "only 5 in 10,000" (generic ratio for example only) are FIVE lives have been taken away from or whose sickness has effected other people! Have YOUR child or grandchild die and THEN tell me .01% is not so bad or acceptable or realistic or to be expected!
HELL NO! These are NOT numbers/percentages - they are people! Just because they are not your "immediate family", doesn't make their loss any less senseless or tragic!
Teacher Terry
8-12-21, 11:38pm
I totally agree Happy and find it sickening to talk about lives in such a dismissive way. Three of my friends lost a child and they have never been the same. It’s a life sentence of pain that I know you know all to well.
If every ward in the city is full and time has to be spent transferring him/her to another city does it matter to that kid that needs a bed why they are all full? The fact that time has to be lost transferring the kid is all that matters. Hospital beds are limited resources. Not doing what each of us reasonably can to avoid needing them is a selfish act.
No full hospital wards in my state because we are second best in the nation in getting vaccinated. Get the shot. It's that simple.
Don't twist your life into knots with masks, restrictions, etc. Just get the shot.
If you do feel compelled to do more work on risk factors you have - quit smoking, lose weight, etc - instead of trying to tell other people what to do.
I never did, but I had a sister who did - religiously! But then her husband was a transplant recipient as well as cancer patient doing both chemo and radiation! She was willing to do ANYTHING to keep Covid away! Bless her and him. (This was the bil who passed a little while back - NOT from Covid, I believe due to her vigilance!)
This illustrates a point I have made. If he had died from covid, it's sad, but ... he would have died anyways of something else if it hadn't been covid. Covid attacks the weak and elderly.
And that is just it. The ripple effects. The thing that infuriates me about the death positive governors of Texas and Florida is that they just don’t care about the ripple effects. All those kids going to school maskless will mostly survive. At least at a high enough rate that yppej would approve. But they don’t live in a vacuum. They have families and grandparents and neighbors and other people they will encounter at that god forsaken 4th birthday party of their younger sibling at chuck e cheese who may not be so fortunate if they get infected.
And the grandparents, neighbors and other non kids they encounter can all get vaccinated. It's that simple. Why should children have to twist their lives around because adults don't want to get vaccinated?
That's a messed up logic. It's like addict parents who want their kids to take care of them instead of the parents taking care of the kids.
The more I think about this the more upset I get - that people would try to make kids feel responsible for their grandparents deaths if they die of covid because "you're not wearing a mask to school" instead of the grandparents just getting a vaccine.
ApatheticNoMore
8-13-21, 6:32pm
An acquaintance of an acquaintance just died of Covid. They were in their late 40s. But unvaxed. But were they overweight or other unforgivable sin? I don't know. They were definitely going to die anyway, in like 30 or 40 years, probably, given average lifespans. They were a Trump supporter and hence no vax because it goes against the teachings of that cult.
I saw on the news tonight 40% of those hospitalized with breakthrough infections are immune compromised although those make up less than 3% of those who have received vaccines. If I were in that demographic I would definitely get a booster.
BAE, sorry about the family's loss and your niece's illness. How terrible!
An acquaintance of an acquaintance just died of Covid. They were in their late 40s. But unvaxed. But were they overweight or other unforgivable sin? I don't know. They were definitely going to die anyway, in like 30 or 40 years, probably, given average lifespans. They were a Trump supporter and hence no vax because it goes against the teachings of that cult.
How do you know if the individual had underlying medical conditions? You don't even know what the person looks like or, given your choice of pronouns, it would appear "their" gender. That's a plural pronoun, so it's unclear how many people you're even talking about. This is classic third, fourth, or more hand information and anecdotal rather than scientific.
ApatheticNoMore
8-14-21, 2:01am
I don't tend to gender people when writing about them often, even if I know a gender and sex perfectly well (although I don't claim to know everyone's preferred gender pronoun). I haven't for like decades. People might think "wow so before your time". But it wasn't prompted by trans rights (not that I'm anti trans rights), but it's more a personal quirk that I've done this for other reasons, because women are often treated like @#$# on the internet, so if I'm on the internet most places I don't come out as female, and because I've had a a fair amount of male platonic friends in the past, and people would assume something romantic was going on because OMG you hang with males, when nothing of the sort was at all. So somewhere along the line in a gender and sex obsessed world (even though I'm just your run-of-the-mill cis female and have no great gender struggle, except you know, patriarchy), I just defaulted to non-gendered language when writing as a matter of strongly ingrained habit.
It seems there were preexisting medical conditions but not the type that could be prevented (really is anyone naive enough to think all medical conditions can be prevented?). And not of the type that would have led to early death absent covid + no vaccine, but that were at high risk of covid when unvaccinated.
This is classic third, fourth, or more hand information and anecdotal rather than scientific.
Oh the irony.
or, given your choice of pronouns, it would appear "their" gender. That's a plural pronoun, ...
Nope. Not always.
Check your OED.
Nope. Not always.
Check your OED.
Oh look, they even wrote up a handy article about it:
https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/
I'm presuming Yppej doesn't understand Old Norse, Old or Middle English, but it started Way Back When...
(I am blessed with an intelligent daughter who is just finishing up her Ph.D. in Anglo Saxon, Norse, and Celtic Studies. I think her college at Cambridge was built in the 1300s during the transition from Old English to Middle English...)
I remember using they as a trendy nongendered singular pronoun in the 80's for people since I didn't want to use the impersonal it, losing points on my English GRE test, and not getting into Rutgers despite being magna cum laude and well recommendeded with various extracurriculars and jobs. That killed my desire for politically correct grammar. I landed up going to graduate school in Canada where they don't require standardized tests.
I did okay on the test, and was accepted by SUNY and UNH, but I always felt the reason I fell short with Riutgers was those few grammar questions I chose to answer in a nonconventional manner. So you can go through life not following the rules including the rules of grammar but don't be surprised by how people respond based on your communication style.
happystuff
8-14-21, 7:44am
Thanks for the link, bae. Very useful article as I know several individuals who have chosen "they" as their pronoun. I think having this background now makes it a little easier for me to transition to its use.
I saw on the news tonight 40% of those hospitalized with breakthrough infections are immune compromised although those make up less than 3% of those who have received vaccines. If I were in that demographic I would definitely get a booster.
So if they were immune compromised they were going to die of something anyway. Just like old people they are disposable to you?
So if they were immune compromised they were going to die of something anyway. Just like old people they are disposable to you?
We all die of something anyways. Some of us just get there sooner because of underlying conditions.
I've long used neutral pronouns when choosing not to disclose gender, so it's not a foreign concept to me.
When I write discussion guides I have traditionally framed questions in my guide like this:
"When you see your doctor, what do you say to him/her?"
It has only recently occurred to me that I can probably use the plural pronoun: "When you see your doctor, what do you say to them?"
It goes against my grain a little after years of getting chided by the nuns for such egregious grammatical "errors," but it's more efficient.
rosarugosa
8-14-21, 4:15pm
When I write discussion guides I have traditionally framed questions in my guide like this:
"When you see your doctor, what do you say to him/her?"
It has only recently occurred to me that I can probably use the plural pronoun: "When you see your doctor, what do you say to them?"
It goes against my grain a little, but it's more efficient.
Yes, I always used to wish that it was OK to use they/them/their; it just seemed to make more sense, but it was against the grammar rules. Having it drummed into my head for so many years as not being OK, is making it a little tough to adapt to it now. I think I'll manage eventually though. I've certainly adapted to greater changes in my life.
happystuff
8-14-21, 4:43pm
Yes, I always used to wish that it was OK to use they/them/their; it just seemed to make more sense, but it was against the grammar rules. Having it drummed into my head for so many years as not being OK, is making it a little tough to adapt to it now. I think I'll manage eventually though. I've certainly adapted to greater changes in my life.
I agree about it going against the grammar rules, which is why I found the article on the history linked above to be so helpful. It was at my last job at the warehouse that I encountered several individuals who chose their pronouns - something I had never really encountered before. I find it very interesting and an easy enough accommodation to make to not offend and to respect someone. So... I'm learning and trying! :)
Here is a new twist. The WHO is saying no one should get booster shots until everyone worldwide has a chance to get initial vaccines. I think this will make a good poll question.
We’ll be waiting until he’ll freezes over for boosters if we follow that suggestion.
We’ll be waiting until he’ll freezes over for boosters if we follow that suggestion.
You used he'll instead of gender neutral they'll. Tsk tsk.
You used he'll instead of gender neutral they'll. Tsk tsk.
That was probably autocorrect’s fault but yeah. They, the American people, will freeze over before boosters if we wait until the world has gotten vaxxed.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.