The Delta Variant..... [Archive] - Simple Living Forums

gimmethesimplelife

7-23-21, 12:01am

So, I remember back in January 2020 starting the thread about the coronavirus - I was mildly spooked and even I had no idea things would turn out the way they have and continue to do. But now we are facing a variant that is more transmissible and seems to have a number of willingly unvaccinated folks to infect. What do you think? More lockdowns, more drama, economic recovery put on hold, starting travel stopping again? Rob

Teacher Terry

7-23-21, 1:42am

I don’t think many states will lock down again. Locally the deaths have been in unvaccinated people. I really feel sorry for the people that can’t be vaccinated for health reasons.

Yppej

7-23-21, 6:56am

I predict liberal states will make children under 12 mask up at school and existing restrictions (like mask mandates at the doctor's office) will not be rolled back any time soon.

If most of the unvaccinated are Republicans and Delta kills some of them off this could help Democrats in the midterms.

jp1

7-23-21, 7:26am

I doubt there will be much in the way of lockdowns. A more likely scenario is that the delta variant will burn through the unvaxxed and also infect less seriously a moderate number of vaxxed.

This article does a good job of explaining both breakthrough cases and also when and where the vaxxed should wear masks or avoid altogether depending on one’s risk tolerance. Extreme TLDR version: people infected with delta shed waaaaaay more virus than previous variants and people who have been vaxxed can still be infected if they get bombed with enough virus. (Enough to get infected depends on one’s personal circumstances such as how old and healthy you are).

https://www.nytimes.com/article/covid-vaccine-masks.html

happystuff

7-23-21, 8:49am

I'm thinking that those individuals who take the simple precautions already known will be less likely to get and/or pass on the variant, while those more selfish individuals and/or those with less concern for others and themselves will, as before, be at a higher risk. Sadly, getting sick is the only way some folks will gain some realization of the seriousness of all of this. And if/when more people start getting sick and/or die, I can see shut-downs being re-instated. Lots of "ifs".

ToomuchStuff

7-23-21, 9:31am

Last Friday, we heard from four different families we know, that people they say are vaccinated, have caught the delta variant. Only one has ended up in the hospital.
On the way to work the other day, they mentioned the Lambda variant has been found in Texas now. Pretty sure that is the India strain.
I fully expect that we will go back to masks at some point, mandated. Not mandated, locally, we have gone back to around 50% of people wearing masked, vaccinated or not.

Tradd

7-23-21, 11:36am

Delta is the Indian strain. Lambda is widespread throughout South America, I believe.

Teacher Terry

7-23-21, 12:52pm

Tuesday I was in a big medical building and was expecting masks to be mandatory. They weren’t unless you weren’t vaccinated.

ApatheticNoMore

7-23-21, 1:41pm

They can mandate but how seriously do they think anyone takes it at this point? At the doctor's maybe. At the store perhaps.

But I have been out to eat twice in the last week, and not a lot of masking going on (of course, if the situation is so bad that fully vaccinated people need to mask to avoid spreading or getting it, then going out to eat inside a restaurant makes no sense to begin with, so ... yea try to straddle that fence but you will end up on one side or the other - because I can see no situation in which fully vaccinated people must take all precautions and yet eating inside a restaurant is safe). Vaccination rates many parts are good though. I mean so the restaurant may be in an area with 80% of the eligible vaccinated (kids still aren't eligible).

Tradd

7-23-21, 8:37pm

I was just at Target and saw maybe 40% masked. I actually bought some disposable masks. Last during the worst of it, I was either unemployed or working at home until March. So I just went grocery shopping or diving, with some out of town road trips to OH or WI, with one trip to MI.

I’m vaxxed but I don’t want to get sick. Would mess with my diving.

Chicago is holding Lalapalooza next week. 100K people in Grant Park for each of 3 days. That’s insane. A lot of doctors are saying to cancel, but so far nothing from the mayor. As one head of a local hospital group said, the teenage/20s/30s population that will go to this event has low vaxx rates, plus add alcohol and bad judgement results. You’re supposed to show proof of bring vaxxed or a negative test 72 hours before attending, but there’s been talk on the radio of forged vax cards.

We’re going to see a lot of cases from this. No doubt. They should cancel, IMO.

Tradd

7-23-21, 8:42pm

I’m actually preparing to sort of hunker down again. Work and diving. That’s it. I’m glad I’m set up at home to work out. I’ll either pickup or have groceries delivered. Don’t have to go into stores except for my allergy meds I have to sign for at the pharmacy or dive shop to get fills.

Tradd

7-23-21, 8:45pm

I love that the gov of AL blamed this on the non-vaxxed.

happystuff

7-23-21, 8:52pm

Yppej

7-23-21, 9:14pm

I love that the gov of AL blamed this on the non-vaxxed.

Yes. Unlike some here who like to blame me and other vaccinated people although I have not been linked to any cases.

happystuff

7-23-21, 9:37pm

Yes. Unlike some here who like to blame me and other vaccinated people although I have not been linked to any cases.

Boy, do you like to twist things to fit your own scenerio! I really don't believe anyone blamed you for giving anyone the virus. *I* said that I believe your behavior puts others at risk.

jp1

7-23-21, 9:50pm

San Diego’s case count has trippled in 3 days. Despite 71% of eligible folks vaccinated. If that rate continues it won’t take long before everyone there is either vaxxed, has had the illness, or both. Sooner or later that will likely be the story for most of the country.

Anecdotally I keep hearing about breakthrough cases among people I know or people who know people I know. I believe the government is only counting breakthrough cases if the people get sick enough to go to the hospital. Those numbers are still low but if vaxxed people are mostly getting less sick but are still getting mild to moderate cases and then spreading it then the infection rate is logically going to be higher than just what one would expect from only the non vaxxed population.

Alan

7-23-21, 10:22pm

Anecdotally I keep hearing about breakthrough cases among people I know or people who know people I know. Also anecdotally, the summer cold has made a comeback recently, perhaps not every breakthrough case people report is an actual breakthrough case. Why Everyone Has the Worst Summer Cold Ever - The New York Times (nytimes.com) (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/22/well/live/colds-summer-immunity.html)

jp1

7-23-21, 11:01pm

Also anecdotally, the summer cold has made a comeback recently, perhaps not every breakthrough case people report is an actual breakthrough case. Why Everyone Has the Worst Summer Cold Ever - The New York Times (nytimes.com) (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/22/well/live/colds-summer-immunity.html)

I presented a story last week of 4 of 9 women who regularly hang out together that tested positive despite all being fully vaxxed. The response to that here was ‘why would they get tested for symptoms of a cold?’ Maybe because for a lot of vaxxed people covid presents as symptoms of a cold?

Yppej

7-23-21, 11:09pm

Maybe because for a lot of vaxxed people covid presents as symptoms of a cold?

So why all the paranoia and urge to reimpose restrictions over something generally no more serious than a cold, if that? Why punish the vaccinated for the fact that others refuse vaccinations?

That's like saying no one should be able to drive because some people drive drunk, and because kids can't drive yet and it's not fair to them. (And no, the pediatric wards are not filling with children because covid doesn't target them.)

#IDidn'tGetVaccinatedForNothing

Even CDC ads on TV urge those ages 12 to 18 to get vaccinated so life can get back to normal, not so we can cower in fear forever. If we were 100% vaccinated there are those who would still want masks due to breakthrough infections no more serious than a cold.

Rogar

7-23-21, 11:11pm

When the news says unvaccinated people account for 95 or 97% of the covid hospitalizations, I assume these people are tested for covid to verify their illness. So I wonder about the other three or five vaccinated percent which they never talk much about, at least that I've heard. Are they old people or young, male or female, or any other demographic trend. I get the impression there is sort of a hush hush about the breakthroughs in order to endorse vaccinations. I basically think the breakthroughs are probably insignificant, but I don't think we know everything yet and can see a little added caution.

I've noticed in my routine shopping and miscellaneous outing there seem to be more people wearing masks. Small sample size.

When I look at a map of the world and see large areas like Africa with tiny percentages of their population vaccinated, I doubt that the Delta variant will be the last version to challenge the health system.

jp1

7-23-21, 11:23pm

So why all the paranoia and urge to reimpose restrictions over something generally no more serious than a cold, if that? Why punish the vaccinated for the fact that others refuse vaccinations?

That's like saying no one should be able to drive because some people drive drunk, and because kids can't drive yet and it's not fair to them. (And no, the pediatric wards are not filling with children because covid doesn't target them.)

#IDidn'tGetVaccinatedForNothing

Even CDC ads on TV urge those ages 12 to 18 to get vaccinated so life can get back to normal, not so we can cower in fear forever. If we were 100% vaccinated there are those who would still want masks due to breakthrough infections no more serious than a cold.

Maybe because for everyone that hasn’t been vaxxed COVID DOESNT PRESENT AS A COLD. Just because vaxxed people present with a cold doesn’t mean they give a cold to non Vaxxed people.

I get it. There’s a sizeable chunk of the US population that just doesn’t give a shit about anyone but themselves, but damn, y’all are unbelievable.

Yppej

7-23-21, 11:28pm

Maybe because for everyone that hasn’t been vaxxed COVID DOESNT PRESENT AS A COLD. Just because vaxxed people present with a cold doesn’t mean they give a cold to non Vaxxed people.

I get it. There’s a sizeable chunk of the US population that just doesn’t give a shit about anyone but themselves, but damn, y’all are unbelievable.

There is a sizeable chunk of the population that doesn't care about themselves and refuse to get vaccinated. Should all of us put our lives and our rights on hold forever? Because this is a free country and you can't force them to get vaccinated. I don't restrict my activities out of concern for measles or other outbreaks because of anti-vaxxers and I don't see any reason to do it with covid either.

jp1

7-23-21, 11:33pm

There is a sizeable chunk of the population that doesn't care about themselves and refuse to get vaccinated. Should all of us put our lives and our rights on hold forever? Because this is a free country and you can't force them to get vaccinated. I don't restrict my activities out of concern for measles or other outbreaks because of anti-vaxxers and I don't see any reason to do it with covid either.

No. People should get effing vaccinated. If everyone did that then we wouldn’t be in this mess. But since that ain’t gonna happen we need to actually care about everyone. There are lots of immunicompronised people and people under age 12 who can’t get vaxxed. Do they not matter?

Yppej

7-23-21, 11:55pm

No. People should get effing vaccinated. If everyone did that then we wouldn’t be in this mess. But since that ain’t gonna happen we need to actually care about everyone. There are lots of immunicompronised people and people under age 12 who can’t get vaxxed. Do they not matter?

Covid is not a significant risk for children.

Immunocompromised people (I've known several who are housebound) have a lot more than covid to worry about, and pre-covid they did things like mask up to protect themselves from other diseases. That isn't going to change even after herd immunity is achieved, which the Delta variant may accelerate. Yet we didn't restrict the freedoms of the 99.999% for the point .001% compromised before so why now? There are not " a lot" of them most places. Maybe San Francisco where you are is different because of high HIV rates. A utilitarian argument of the greatest good for the greatest number has to come into play, and that good includes economic rights and civil liberties.

It reminds me of my son. I shouldn't replace the broken hot water heater, I should boil water on the stove when I need to take a bath. I shouldn't fix the ceiling that's caving in or restore power to the rooms in the house where it's out because due to his illness it makes him uncomfortable to have repair people in the house. I shouldn't have family members visit even if he is not home because it makes him anxious. Everything has to revolve around his illness. Well it sucks that he's ill but at some point the rest of the world gets to go on with life, and sick people have to take steps to protect themselves the best they can without expecting everyone else to walk on eggshells and jump through hoops.

So you're not the first person to tell me I don't care about others because I don't let you dictate to me how I live my life. Wear a mask the rest of your life while you jet around picking up variants from other parts of the country and world (because the mask won't stop the tiny covid particles). Meanwhile in the 1 hour radius from my home where I live my humble life I matter too, and so do my rights.

ApatheticNoMore

7-24-21, 12:23am

Some of these cold symptoms are probably so mild that people figure it's just an allergy etc. (and there is so much smoke in the air above north america too, some respiratory symptoms would be expected). We never really got cheap available home tests did we? Noone is going to do home tests at $20 a pop, test themselves for a sneeze but maybe it was just the black pepper in the soup or something.

iris lilies

7-24-21, 12:31am

Covid is not a significant risk for children.

Immunocompromised people (I've known several who are housebound) have a lot more than covid to worry about, and pre-covid they did things like mask up to protect themselves from other diseases. That isn't going to change even after herd immunity is achieved, which the Delta variant may accelerate. Yet we didn't restrict the freedoms of the 99.999% for the point .001% compromised before so why now? There are not " a lot" of them most places. Maybe San Francisco where you are is different because of high HIV rates. A utilitarian argument of the greatest good for the greatest number has to come into play, and that good includes economic rights and civil liberties.

It reminds me of my son. I shouldn't replace the broken hot water heater, I should boil water on the stove when I need to take a bath. I shouldn't fix the ceiling that's caving in or restore power to the rooms in the house where it's out because due to his illness it makes him uncomfortable to have repair people in the house. I shouldn't have family members visit even if he is not home because it makes him anxious. Everything has to revolve around his illness. Well it sucks that he's ill but at some point the rest of the world gets to go on with life, and sick people have to take steps to protect themselves the best they can without expecting everyone else to walk on eggshells and jump through hoops.

So you're not the first person to tell me I don't care about others because I don't let you dictate to me how I live my life. Wear a mask the rest of your life while you jet around picking up variants from other parts of the country and world (because the mask won't stop the tiny covid particles). Meanwhile in the 1 hour radius from my home where I live my humble life I matter too, and so do my rights.

jeppy is making some good points here. Ok I said some.

Teacher Terry

7-24-21, 1:38am

I am not sure what you all are arguing about. It appears everyone on the forum is vaccinated and following their local rules whether they agree with them or not.

jp1

7-24-21, 2:20am

I am not sure what you all are arguing about. It appears everyone on the forum is vaccinated and following their local rules whether they agree with them or not.

We’re arguing about the fact that a not insignificant number of fully vaxxed people are being infected. For now that’s not a big deal except that 1) they can infect others because they think they just have a cold, 2) there are a sizable number of people who either cant’t be vaxxed (kids) or can’t benefit from vax (immune compromised) who are at risk of infection if rates are high in their community and 3) virus mutations are most likely to happen when immune compromised people get infected. The delta variant is a 23 mutation difference that happened in ONE immune compromised person in India. We’re lucky that the vaccines still protect against serious illness from delta. If the next big mutation evades the current vaccines we’re back to square one except with a way more infectious version of the virus.

Teacher Terry

7-24-21, 2:53am

Yes that’s horrible if it happened but I also have learned to not worry about things outside my circle of control before it just causes anxiety. Also most things people worry about never happens. But carry on if it makes you all happy.,

happystuff

7-24-21, 9:18am

I am not sure what you all are arguing about. It appears everyone on the forum is vaccinated and following their local rules whether they agree with them or not.

Yes, but not everyone on the forum is continually complaining and whining about not being able to do things without a mask simply because they are vaccinated and that is the miracle prevent-all which should allow them to do and go wherever they want unmasked, regardless of ANYONE else around them! See previous posts where Yppey states she doesn't need to social distance from others, but THEY should social distance from her; that SHE shouldn't need to wear a mask for an eye exam regardless of it being a requirement and the dr should mask - not her, etc. She may be reluctantly following her local rules, but is looking non-locally to find ways around the rules and complains when she can't find a way around them. And, even more obvious in her posts, she seems totally miserable and unhappy - all because of the wearing of a simple mask in certain places and at certain times.

It is the degree of selfish behavior and lack of compassion that is being exhibited, and wondering whether these behaviors are realized and being done on purpose or just the nature of the individual. Which, again, is why I say to you, Yppey, you sincerely have my prayers and hope that you can find some happiness.

So, to answer your question, tt, that is what my participation in this discussion has been about. And now that my part of the conversation seems to just be repeating the same old stuff, I guess I'm done.

Still wishing health and happiness to all!

Tybee

7-24-21, 9:28am

To Rob's original question, I do think we are likely to get shut down again if the numbers continue to climb, as we were shut down and wearing masks, etc. for a long time, and the mechanisms are there now, and people are used to it. So it would not surprise me if we went through another phase with school shut downs etc.

It would upset me, but it wouldn't surprise me. Once something like that happens, it's likely to happen again. Sort of a socio-political entropy.

Yppej

7-24-21, 9:55am

JaneV2.0

7-24-21, 11:55am

So glad you're making progress on the house, Jeppy.

iris lilies

7-24-21, 12:06pm

So happy I was able to get the electricians, blueboard guys and plasterers in since it would be especially uncomfortable for them doing physical labor in the summer heat to wear a mask. I should probably try to expedite a few other things in case restrictions are slammed on us again.

It's not like these guys get to sit in their air conditioned house working on a computer throughout the pandemic.

I would probably tell workmen they don’t have to wear a mask if they’re working in my own house. The construction guys in Hermann arent gonna do it anyway despite what I say. They’re doing a lot of outdoor work anyway.

Yppej

7-24-21, 12:24pm

I would probably tell workmen they don’t have to wear a mask if they’re working in my own house. The construction guys on Herman I’m gonna do it anyway despite what I say. They’re doing a lot of outdoor work anyway.

I think Missouri never had a mask mandate? When Mass did I only had one person in when the hot water heater died and we both wore masks.

Yppej

7-24-21, 12:25pm

So glad you're making progress on the house, Jeppy.

Yes, slowly but surely.

ApatheticNoMore

7-24-21, 12:59pm

But there is NO entropy pushing shutdowns really. There might have been a bit of bravado in doing it early in the unknown, but that's LONG gone. And they weren't strictly obeyed anyway and were less and less over time - so you want to talk entropy. None of the shutdowns came from the local level and the state isn't necessarily doing badly in cases. And they let the hospitals get overwhelmed for Christmas shopping. Let that sink in, because that is what happened. They didn't want to shut down in xmas shopping season, and more people died when the hospitals got overwhelmed as they had to turn people away. And the hospitals did get overwhelmed, I heard it from those working there. But for awhile there they did close the outdoor parks so there is that >8).

Schools, yea noone really knows there, I guess, since the whole kids can't get vaccinated thing, so I could see issues arising there.

Air conditioned "house" yes, but really you are assuming a single window box A/C in a hot apartment that concentrates heat, and would otherwise be 10 degrees hotter than the outside temp which is in the 90s, works better than it really does. But it's okay, the A/C works. Btw I do know how an actual house with an attic a big old shade tree feels as that's my mom's house, it's actually cooler than the outside temp (10 degrees cooler rather than hotter), but thank heavens for A/C as apartments aren't designed like that generally.

KayLR

7-24-21, 1:13pm

There is a wonderful Hawaiian four-day festival in my town this weekend. Last year it didn't happen. We always go as we love the music and dancing and looking at all the art and craft vendors. BUT, with the variant rampant now in my region, sadly we've decided not to go. Even though we're vaccinated. There are too many unvaccinated folks around here.

Teacher Terry

7-24-21, 1:27pm

Ypejji, I am glad you are getting work done in your house. I told my movers that they didn’t need masks and they removed them immediately. It was hot when I moved.

iris lilies

7-24-21, 1:30pm

I think Missouri never had a mask mandate? When Mass did I only had one person in when the hot water heater died and we both wore masks.

in my own home, no one will tell me who must wear a mask.

I am fine with a state mandate that would support me in requiring it of workmen, if I chose to do that. My house, my choice.

Even if I was worried about them spreading Covid, and granted I would be somewhat worried about it, I would leave for the day while they worked on the house. I would come back when they are gone. It isn’t complicated.

ApatheticNoMore

7-24-21, 1:32pm

I am not sure what you all are arguing about. It appears everyone on the forum is vaccinated and following their local rules whether they agree with them or not.

even I don't know how many precautions I should or should not take due to Delta really. Maybe noone really does and since the world is one big conspiracy theory now (vaccines don't work, bargle garble!), one hears a great deal of garbage out there. But I try to see how things are actually going. Masks are required by law so not worth my time thinking about really (though I suspect it's largely unenforced). I'll wear a mask in indoor public places, but I'm not going back to full on hunkering down until we have that ebola outbreak pretty much (hey anyone hear about that untreatable fungus?). As far as worrying about things I can't much change, at this point in the coronavirus pandemic, I'd be better off worrying about climate change. :~) I mean if one's only concern was the immunocompromised or the unvaccinated children (unvaccinated adults who just refuse a vaccine have chosen to die if they do), then maybe one would do nothing out in the world at all that one didn't had to. But we've been a year of that already ....

Teacher Terry

7-24-21, 2:14pm

It appears to me that Covid is eventually going to go through our population similar to the flu. Unless you stay home all the time it will be inevitable. My sister is 75 with Copd so she is vaccinated and much more cautious for obvious reasons. That I understand. She only eats in outside restaurant, etc. I am no longer worried about dying from it with the vaccine and my huge weight loss. I am 67 with asthma and HBP but have done what I can to lower my risk. I was never so happy in my life to get a vaccine.

Gardnr

7-28-21, 6:55pm

I really feel sorry for the people that can’t be vaccinated for health reasons.

What population is this?

Chemotherapy patients are the only exception of which I'm aware. I vaccinated a chemo patient. She and her Oncologist monitored her for a window of time the safest to take a chemo break and take the vaccine. She was thrilled to be getting it. We monitored her for 1 hour for side effects and she had none.

Gardnr

7-28-21, 7:02pm

There are lots of immunicompronised people and people under age 12 who can’t get vaxxed. Do they not matter?

They CAN be vaccinated. The issue being studied is how much active antibody do they actually grow. Protection for them is not as high as the majority so their risk remains higher albeit lower than unvaccinated.

37.2% of the vaccinated solid organ transplant patients were positive for antibodies; 54.7% of the blood cancer patients; 82.4% of those with solid tumor cancer and 83.8% of patients with autoimmune disorders. In contrast, 94.6% of patients with HIV made antibodies.

Among patients with solid organ transplants, lung transplant patients had a particularly poor response to vaccination, with only 22.2% producing antibodies. Liver transplant patients fared best, with 60.6% of study participants producing antibodies after vaccination. Patients who received their transplant less than a year ago were less likely to respond to vaccination than those transplanted earlier.

ToomuchStuff

7-29-21, 10:08am

Tybee

7-29-21, 11:50am

We have a gal that works for us, whose grandmother was told not to get vaccinated. She is older, has several health issues, and has some of the allergies they warn about in the questionnaire. Her doctors told her not to get vaccinated as at least one medical allergy is life threatening.
She didn't follow her doctors recommendation and got her first shot the other day.

That's actually what I did. I just kept checking of no, no, no on the form, mentally crossing my fingers. I have had life-threatening anaphlyactic reactions, including from a vaccine, but decided I'd rather die with anaphalaxis than live the way we were living, cooped up without the vaccine and fearing we might give someone Covid.

Yppej

7-29-21, 6:50pm

I guess I am not inured yet to how fanatical the maskers are, because I was shocked to hear a public health "expert" on the local news say that vaccinated parents should wear masks inside their own homes to keep their children safe.

happystuff

7-29-21, 10:31pm

They CAN be vaccinated. The issue being studied is how much active antibody do they actually grow. Protection for them is not as high as the majority so their risk remains higher albeit lower than unvaccinated.

37.2% of the vaccinated solid organ transplant patients were positive for antibodies; 54.7% of the blood cancer patients; 82.4% of those with solid tumor cancer and 83.8% of patients with autoimmune disorders. In contrast, 94.6% of patients with HIV made antibodies.

Among patients with solid organ transplants, lung transplant patients had a particularly poor response to vaccination, with only 22.2% producing antibodies. Liver transplant patients fared best, with 60.6% of study participants producing antibodies after vaccination. Patients who received their transplant less than a year ago were less likely to respond to vaccination than those transplanted earlier.

Thanks for the information. My bil had a transplant as well as cancer. He died in January. Watching what both sides of the family, especially my sister, went through to protect him during the year+ with covid was hard, amazing, brave, and beyond! My heart goes out to everyone with and helping those who are medically compromised. I can't imagine the fear and anxiety! Makes me realize how truly easy it is to wear a simple little mask.

Yppej

7-30-21, 10:00am

I hear people saying, "I played your game and got the vaccine and now you tell me it doesn't work. I'm not getting a booster. Why would I?"

frugal-one

7-30-21, 3:00pm

I hear people saying, "I played your game and got the vaccine and now you tell me it doesn't work. I'm not getting a booster. Why would I?"

Whine, whine, whine. Don't get the booster and die.

Yppej

7-30-21, 3:25pm

Whine, whine, whine. Don't get the booster and die.

I doubt it. The vaccine is pretty effective as is. That's why areas of the country with high vaccination rates are not having surges in cases or hospitalizations.

The fearmongering just undercuts people's belief in that effectiveness.

frugal-one

7-30-21, 4:13pm

Yppej

7-30-21, 4:17pm

happystuff

7-30-21, 4:20pm

This is a time where all variables are not known. It may be deemed necessary to have a booster after a certain length of time to be sure of effectiveness of the vaccine. I don't believe this is fear mongering but just stating the possibilities of needed protection.

I agree. I don't see planning/preparations as fear-mongering, either. But prepping - to whatever degree someone is comfortable - is done all the time! For bad weather, possible shortages, whatever. Everyone draws their own line, so to speak, to get to their own comfort level. I can see the possibility of having to get a booster as being part of all that. No, it's not needed NOW, but knowing the possibility exists and considering one's actions for the future (whether for or against), and following the science with regards to one, I believe is valid for consideration.

iris lilies

7-30-21, 4:22pm

I agree. I don't see planning/preparations as fear-mongering, either. But prepping - to whatever degree someone is comfortable - is done all the time! For bad weather, possible shortages, whatever. Everyone draws their own line, so to speak, to get to their own comfort level. I can see the possibility of having to get a booster as being part of all that. No, it's not needed NOW, but knowing the possibility exists and considering one's actions for the future (whether for or against), and following the science with regards to one, I believe is valid for consideration.

It’s not fear mongering, but yes it may big Pharma thinking hey we can make some bucks out of this so let’s go. Think of all the free free free advertising they’re getting.

ApatheticNoMore

7-30-21, 4:27pm

But the latest news was the FDA disagreed with Pfizer about the need for a booster, they didn't think it necessary. That could change, and the FDA is on everyone's "do not trust" list, after the Alzheimer's drug approval disaster. But they weren't just going to go along with Pfizer, at least not yet. It's possible boosters might only be for those with compromised immune systems.

happystuff

7-30-21, 6:49pm

Watching the evening news for the first time in many weeks - BBC America. They are stating that the CDC says the Delta variant is as contagious as chicken pox - amongst both vaccinated and non-vaccinated people! That the vaccinated folks have a better chance of not getting sick/being hospitalized, but are DEFINITELY able to pass this variant along to others - both vaccinated and not!

Sigh...

Yppej

7-30-21, 8:39pm

I heard a woman on NPR today saying the public health message should be vaccinate, vaccinate, vaccinate, and that focusing on masks is a distraction. She said masks will never end the pandemic but vaccines will.

jp1

7-31-21, 5:43am

Yppej

7-31-21, 7:25am

Sure the public health message should be vaccinate vaccinate vaccinate. But until last week one of our political parties was cheering the failure to reach vaccination goals and many of that party’s public figures were refusing to recommend publicly that people get vaccinated or even admit publicly that they themselves had been vaccinated. Anyone with such an awful attitude is unlikely to be swayed by a VVV message.

Some of those folks will die off and the vaccinate message will prevail in the long run.

I think it is important, as after a bad breakup, to embrace the mantra of living well is the best revenge. Enjoy the freedoms you have secured by being vaccinated. Don't cower in fear behind a mask saying, "Oh I might get some variant." If it rarely gives you any symptoms and doesn't land you in the hospital or kill you who cares? Yes, some people who chose not to get the vaccine might be impacted by your actions. They are the ones who should be cowering in fear. Children are like vaccinated people, almost always asymptomatic, so no concern there.

If you got the polio vaccine back in the day would you continue to avoid swimming pools out of concern for anti-vaxxers, or would you enjoy yourself and show them what fun they're missing? And if anti-vaxxers went swimming anyway, caught polio in the pool and got paralyzed, don't you think that would reinforce the need for a vaccine?

There's some simple psychology at work. As they say in tech, Keep It Simple Stupid.

jp1

7-31-21, 8:02am

Why do people keep barfing up the ‘cower in fear’ mantra? Wearing a mask is not ‘cowering in fear’. It’s having concern for other human beings. Sadly I have learned from the pandemic that a fair number of people simply lack that capacity.

Yppej

7-31-21, 8:17am

Don't panic. Delta will be over soon. The UK has passed its Delta peak already.

Also I just saw a doctor on GMA say you can't read too much into the Provincetown outbreak because it is not typical. Reading between the lines it's because while gay and bisexual men are a minority in the population they make up 69% of HIV cases and HIV compromises your immune system. Even so of over 900 people in this outbreak only 7 landed in the hospital.

I trust the Moderna vaccine I got and I am not afraid. If you are afraid stay 6 feet away from me.

ETA I have been involved with bad boys in the past, thought I might have been exposed to HIV, and gone for a test. It never crossed my mind that if I came down with AIDS because of risks I chose to take everyone else in America should wear masks for years.

happystuff

7-31-21, 9:51am

Jane v2.0

7-31-21, 10:56am

Wearing a mask also cuts the risk of breakthrough infections in the face of a highly contagious variant, so it seems prudent to wear one. Being out and about pretty much negates the "cowering in fear" characterization.

dado potato

7-31-21, 10:57am

I doubt there will be much in the way of lockdowns. A more likely scenario is that the delta variant will burn through the unvaxxed and also infect less seriously a moderate number of vaxxed. [/url]

In the USA, I don't foresee a lockdown either. But I note that in Australia the Delta variant prompted Sydney and Brisbane to impose a stay-at-home lockdown until August 28, with the possibility of further extensions. The Australian lockdown covers about 6 million people currently. Unarmed military personnel are deployed to knock on doors and see that occupants are complying with the restrictions. The Prime Minister, Scott Morrison, has said that the lockdown can be lifted when the vaccination rate is 80% nationally. At present, the vaccination rate is about 14%.

Simplemind

7-31-21, 11:09pm

My vaccinated, mask wearing, social distancing and sanitizing sister in law just tested positive. She has been sick for a week. Not feeling worse but not feeling better.

happystuff

7-31-21, 11:12pm

My vaccinated, mask wearing, social distancing and sanitizing sister in law just tested positive. She has been sick for a week. Not feeling worse but not feeling better.

I'm so sorry. I hope she has a full recovery. Does she know if it was the Delta variant for sure, or another?

iris lilies

7-31-21, 11:16pm

My vaccinated, mask wearing, social distancing and sanitizing sister in law just tested positive. She has been sick for a week. Not feeling worse but not feeling better.
Yikes.,where does she think she got it?

Simplemind

7-31-21, 11:38pm

She hasn't been told yet if it is Delta. They are supposed to be calling her tonight with instructions. She hasn't a clue where she might have got it because she stays close to home and has only gone out a few times (always distancing and masked) and walks her dog.

Jane v2.0

8-1-21, 12:57am

ApatheticNoMore

8-1-21, 3:01am

Why do people keep barfing up the ‘cower in fear’ mantra? Wearing a mask is not ‘cowering in fear’. It’s having concern for other human beings.

Some people are obsessed with masks, but for many others it gets all blended into the very real sacrifices of social life etc. they made during the pandemic. And it's kind of obvious why it does. Who is one wearing a mask for again? For one's vaccinated self? For other vaccinated people? But *vaccinated*. If it's all that dangerous to vaccinated people, for oneself, for grandma, for a friend with diabetes, for a vaccinated stranger at a restaurant, it means maybe people should go back to other pandemic behavior, but very few have the will to do this anymore. We gave up normal life for ... a ... year.

Or maybe that's not who one is wearing a mask for. But for those who refuse vaccines. But they aren't all that easy to sympathize with. Or for children and leukemia patients and the like? Well okay at least that last one makes sense, I don't even much like children, nor is their risk probably that high anyway, but the leukemia patients and other sick people :(. This also has no end point though, well children will get the vax I guess, it may never work with severely immunocompromised. But for people who are like "oh no *vaccinated* people without severe immunocompromising disease need to fear again", then it's 'cowering in fear' or whatever, maybe not the way to put it, avoiding a pandemic is not 'cowering in fear', but it's back to pandemic behavior. And people already gave up so much for a year.

And if we are honest, vaccinated people may wear the mask, it may even be the law that vaccinated people wear the mask, and they may comply, but vaccinated people feel immortal now, got that immortality shot, and so they aren't wearing the mask near as tight as they might have before and maybe it's a flimsier mask. Nor are they avoiding the rest of social behavior that might somehow spread it. I think that's just realism.