Retiring on $27,000 a Year [Archive]

iris lilies

10-18-21, 5:05pm

Whenever I read one of these live-a-shoestring stories, I have to wonder what happens if somebody gets sick. I’m inclined to say “get back to me in twenty years, and maybe I’ll be impressed”.

I’m aware many people are living on very little, but I can’t imagine it’s all that enjoyable.

That is REALLY scaled down income. They are living on the edge. This is aspirational?

I also think you could live in places with seasons at that rate, places like Arkansas and Missouri, the Carolinas, Kentucky and Tennessee.

ApatheticNoMore

10-18-21, 5:17pm

I also think you could live in places with seasons at that rate, places like Arkansas and Missouri, the Carolinas, Kentucky and Tennessee.

They live in a beach town, basically right on the beach, that's plenty pleasant scenery and better weather than inland (less humid). With all the downsides of Florida including hurricanes and climate change sure probably, but it's beachfront living, it's pleasant, I'm not sure those alternatives sound better.

I do look askance on anyone whose retirement needs to be funded by writing about it, come on that is not sustainable, everyone can't do that, what we're all just going to sell each other retirement books >8), that's not a plan of any sort. But generally I guess they are doing what they can. I mean at 67 retirement may not be so much chosen anyway, how many job opportunities existed otherwise. One clue is collecting SS at 62, sometimes that's planned, but that's often a desperation move. If you work 10 hours a week and manage to make it work with pensions and Social Security etc. because you're long past the age you can get a full time job even if you even wanted one, well okay, good for you. But we can't all sell each other books on it :)

herbgeek

10-18-21, 5:44pm

We have occasional months ( a few times a year) where we spend about that much, we are in a high-ish cost of living (eg real estate taxes of 6K per year). I don't feel deprived in those months, but I also don't do it every month. :)

iris lilies

10-18-21, 6:03pm

They live in a beach town, basically right on the beach, that's plenty pleasant scenery and better weather than inland (less humid). With all the downsides of Florida including hurricanes and climate change sure probably, but it's beachfront living, it's pleasant, I'm not sure those alternatives sound better.

I do look askance on anyone whose retirement needs to be funded by writing about it, come on that is not sustainable, everyone can't do that, what we're all just going to sell each other retirement books >8), that's not a plan of any sort. But generally I guess they are doing what they can. I mean at 67 retirement may not be so much chosen anyway, how many job opportunities existed otherwise. One clue is collecting SS at 62, sometimes that's planned, but that's often a desperation move. If you work 10 hours a week and manage to make it work with pensions and Social Security etc. because you're long past the age you can get a full time job even if you even wanted one, well okay, good for you. But we can't all sell each other books on it :)

This couple mentioned missing seasons which is why I brought this up.

This couple, assuming they are reasonably physically fit at 67, can EASILY get a part time job in Missouri, low wages of course, but it sounds like that’s what they’re used to because they are not bringing in much from Social Security income.
Personally I think selling art is not the best way to put a few thousand dollars annually into their pockets, but sounds like that’s pretty much what they are accustomed to doing.

Teacher Terry

10-18-21, 10:18pm

They should get part time jobs and try to save some money. Once their old car dies they won’t be able to replace it. Doesn’t sound like fun to me.

catherine

10-18-21, 10:35pm

I read that article a few days ago and I had mixed feelings about it. It seems to be working for them, and that's great. What surprised me is that they are living on 27k but they are still working on paying off debt. Without debt, I think you could live on that in the manner in which they are doing it--low COL place, pare expenses to the bone.

I know this is my weird way of looking at money, but I still hate that in this affluent country we have very inflated ideas about what we "need." A hundred years ago, people have few needs and few expenses. If living on 27k works for them, if they have what they think they need, I think that's wonderful for them.

That being said, I've learned enough about myself to know that I would not enjoy living that close to the bone if I didn't have to. IOW, I could adjust to living on 27k if I had to, but the fact that they voluntarily gave up fairly decent jobs and are banking on selling a couple of hundred dollars worth of art work and/or writing every now and then is not a lifestyle I would choose for myself--unless I had to.

Tybee

10-19-21, 5:40am

What an interesting article! I find it scary to read these numbers and imagine trying to live this close to the bone. More power to them--I would be getting a part-time job if those were my numbers, and jobs often bring other benefits, such as meals if you work at a restaurant, or discounts is you work retail. I'd be sad if I had to buy all my clothes at Goodwill. Not that I haven't bought clothes at Goodwill. But it's nice to have choices, and nice to feel there is money saved to keep the wolf from the door. 67 is not too old to work, either--I'll be 66 soon and I work part-time and take social security. My husband plans to work until he is 70, and I am hoping he continues past then, as he gets a lot out of it, whether he realizes it or not.

They are close to being out of debt, so that is wonderful.

sweetana3

10-19-21, 6:02am

Met a waitress at Cracker Barrel who was 70. We had a short conversation and she said she was one of their most productive workers. She really knew how to do the job and keep everyone happy. My exercise instructor is 69 and he also does personal training. Best instructor I have ever had. A fast food place here hires teenagers and seniors. Bet they don't have to keep after those seniors with the added benefit of being able to work during school hours

My husband is 69 and works construction on Habitat for Humanity projects. It can be physically demanding. They have a locksmith who is 90 that volunteers.

Age is not determinative IF you can keep your health.

jp1

10-19-21, 6:07am

That’s definitely a tighter budget than ideal. As has been mentioned, they will be walking everywhere once the car dies. And what about when one of them dies and the other is left to live on only one social security check. What then?

iris lilies

10-19-21, 10:06am

I reread the article and they are 69 not 67. Also their income now is $24,000 not $27,000.

Yeah, they both need to get part-time jobs.

pinkytoe

10-19-21, 10:42am

This couple reminds me of the woman who used to post here a long time ago - she and her husband were artists and managed an apartment building in San Francisco. As I recall, they lived on very little. I haven't done the math lately but I think our annual expenses (excluding surprises like a tree falling down) are around $25,000. We save the rest of our income. I am thinking about a pt nursery job next summer just for the fun of it. I saw a quote about the Amish and their Plain lifestyle that might apply here - "it's not what we don't have, it's what we have."

flowerseverywhere

10-19-21, 11:26am

I’m all for people living a simple life, but they are in poverty. As in they go to food banks occasionally. Have no means to fix or replace a car. If they get sick co pays could be a problem as well as getting to and from medical care. Plus when they get to one social security check it is really going to be bad.

They have two choices. Stroll along the beach and create art, possibly relying on the mercy of others or the government (taxpayers) , or get a job to keep a roof over their heads and a better cushion.

to be honest to be that age with zero home equity, almost zero savings, a 16 year old car with no means to replace it and not working even part time if you are physically able to , means a lifetime of not planning well to provide for themselves. Plus we are hearing all over the country rents are rising. Then what.

a most difficult undesirable position To be in.

iris lilies

10-19-21, 11:33am

I don’t really know what the answer is for very low income people who seemingly have low skills.

I do think that living in Florida in one of those trailer house communities seems pretty cheap living. The rent of $800, assuming that covers utilities, probably cannot be beat anywhere else. I don’t know though.

I was looking again at the cost of living in our Hermann house (prior to major renovation.) Last year I calculated it at $4500 annually. That covers taxes, insurance, utilities. We have no mortgage. Add $335 as a monthly payment if we had financed this Hermann property, so, my Hermann house would cost this couple: $710 monthly. That is comparable.

There are no telecommunications costs in that $4500.

Our Hermann house is old, not updated, but it’s cute and could be pleasant if someone wanted to apply simple elbow grease and not major renovation money. It is bigger than what this couple would need. My Hermann house, being an old house, would need lots of maintenance, though, and that is a completely unknown annual expense.

Teacher Terry

10-19-21, 11:40am

They could live in Wichita Kansas much cheaper than Florida but of course no ocean. Once one dies the other will need low income senior housing.

catherine

10-19-21, 11:57am

I was trying to get some insight on what would motivate a couple to live with a low income when they clearly are able to continue working.

So I went on Amazon, and as a Kindle Unlimited member I was able to download her book, Joyful Passages, for free. So, I think that their motivation is similar to the motivation of other adventurous non-earners like Suelo, Heide Marie Schwermer, Mark Boyle, etc. Here is the description of the book from Amazon:

"You may retire at the lakeside, but retirement is a vast ocean. Joyful Passage: A Woman’s Path to Retirement is not a book about financial security, it is about investing in personal growth.“Whoever said retirement is a full-time job was spot-on. Joan B. Reid’s debut book, Joyful Passage: A Woman’s Path to Retirement, discusses her journey from her first thoughts about the warp and weave of leaving her job to part time work, and, finally, to full departure. She encounters good times and humbling events at each stage. Hers is not a roadmap, but rather an unveiling of competencies as her adventure unfolds. Joyful Passage makes a fine gift for retirees and for those somewhere along the retirement road." Nancy Hartney, author of If You Walk Long Enough, a coming home from Vietnam novel, and two collections of short stories, If the Creek Don’t Rise and Washed in the Water.

“Reading Joyful Passage is like talking to a friend. It encourages you to go forward, inspires you to create positive changes, and empowers to never give up.” Joan Y. Edwards, M.A., B.S., Retired Elementary School Teacher, author of Flip Flap Floodle and Joan’s Elder Care Guide.

“Joyful Passage” tells the story of one woman’s approach to the retirement threshold, her struggles with the decision, identity questions, loss of status, the changes in family dynamics and friendships, and how she found unexpected joys and riches in retirement.

I respect their decision, just as I respect the decisions of others who look at living with low/no income as a sort of thumbing their noses at assumptions about retirement and money. I'll probably try reading the book for fun.

sweetana3

10-19-21, 12:17pm

There is a large mostly hidden group of people living in vans and cars. You can meet some of them on Youtube where they explain how they do it. One is a quite famous 76 year old woman. She is very clear in the difficulties and does have a daughter to rely on during times of trouble. One is middle aged and she is pretty honest about her issues and difficulties.

Nomad is a good film about this group. Other than they live in movable dwellings, their issues are the same as a couple living in a fixed location.

iris lilies

10-19-21, 12:20pm

I was trying to get some insight on what would motivate a couple to live with a low income when they clearly are able to continue working.

So I went on Amazon, and as a Kindle Unlimited member I was able to download her book, Joyful Passages, for free. So, I think that their motivation is similar to the motivation of other adventurous non-earners like Suelo, Heide Marie Schwermer, Mark Boyle, etc. Here is the description of the book from Amazon:
"You may retire at the lakeside, but retirement is a vast ocean. Joyful Passage: A Woman’s Path to Retirement is not a book about financial security, it is about investing in personal growth.“Whoever said retirement is a full-time job was spot-on. Joan B. Reid’s debut book, Joyful Passage: A Woman’s Path to Retirement, discusses her journey from her first thoughts about the warp and weave of leaving her job to part time work, and, finally, to full departure. She encounters good times and humbling events at each stage. Hers is not a roadmap, but rather an unveiling of competencies as her adventure unfolds. Joyful Passage makes a fine gift for retirees and for those somewhere along the retirement road." Nancy Hartney, author of If You Walk Long Enough, a coming home from Vietnam novel, and two collections of short stories, If the Creek Don’t Rise and Washed in the Water.

“Reading Joyful Passage is like talking to a friend. It encourages you to go forward, inspires you to create positive changes, and empowers to never give up.” Joan Y. Edwards, M.A., B.S., Retired Elementary School Teacher, author of Flip Flap Floodle and Joan’s Elder Care Guide.

“Joyful Passage” tells the story of one woman’s approach to the retirement threshold, her struggles with the decision, identity questions, loss of status, the changes in family dynamics and friendships, and how she found unexpected joys and riches in retirement.

I respect their decision, just as I respect the decisions of others who look at living with low/no income as a sort of thumbing their noses at assumptions about retirement and money. I'll probably try reading the book for fun.

I dunno, I respect those who live on $24,000 annually and don’t have to do that, rather than those who are perfectly capable of having paid-for real estate but chose not to get it back in the day.

If this couple didn’t have rental costs, they could live at a level of ease on $24,000.

My rigid thinking calls for us all to have a paid-for house upon retirement. That’s just what you do! Haha, I will admit it is rigid on my part, and is also flyover country thinking where middle class income people can actually afford to have a paid-for house.

Tradd

10-19-21, 1:09pm

iris lilies

10-19-21, 1:49pm

I live in flyover country and it’s too damned expensive in the Chicago area to buy. I’ll just keep renting. I like the freedom that I can pick up and move if I want to. Plus I don’t have to bother with repairs or anything.
Chicago is very expensive, agreed. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with renting as long as you have enough money in your old age to fund it.

catherine

10-19-21, 1:50pm

If this couple didn’t have rental costs, they could live at a level of ease on $24,000.

That's always been my plan--of course I have two mortgages now, but when I get rid of one I can get rid of the other (if I choose to). My retirement budget has a built-in assumption that my household COL will be about 800 for taxes, cable, heating, and water.

I completely understand the perspectives of Tradd and my 37-y.o. son who want as little involvement in upkeep as possible. I think home ownership has been a keystone of The American Dream for a long time, and that might be just another assumption about "the best way"

ApatheticNoMore

10-19-21, 1:56pm

Well one of the problems besides housing being very expensive, is jobs are very impermanent. So renting gives one the flexibility to move for work, and I don't necessarily mean move across the country, I mean sure one could, but I mean even move 30 miles. Of course that flexibility is also less than it seems, no you aren't as tied down as with a home, but any move probably means more expensive rents if you have been in a rental for any period of time.

LDAHL

10-19-21, 1:56pm

Chicago is very expensive, agreed. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with renting as long as you have enough money in your old age to fund it.

I recently read that Cook County property taxes have tripled the rate of inflation for the last twenty years. And that is without materially addressing some huge pension shortfalls.

iris lilies

10-19-21, 2:01pm

iris lilies

10-19-21, 2:04pm

Both sets of my grandparents were renters in old age until they died. The first set had no money, no assets. Their kids paid their rent.

Both sets had owned real estate in their younger days,

My other set of grandparents had assets but didn’t feel the need to own real estate. My grandfather was an avid flower gardener but he grew flowers in our yard. They always lived close enough to us that he was our gardener.

catherine

10-19-21, 2:07pm

I don’t intend this to become a “if you owned your own home you will be fine in old age” discussion because owning real estate is not for everyone. And as I observe the infirm, frail, and elderly in my neighborhood age in place in their crumbling old Victorians I think it is very often foolish.

Agreed.

But I have to say, there are challenges to living in a small home/apartment. My brother called me the other day to tell me he's been sober for 6 months, which is a milestone for him. He sounded great, and he tiptoed around discussing coming up here for Thanksgiving. The best option for that would be for my other brother and SIL in CT to come up here as well for Thanksgiving and pick up J on the way. But our house is so small!! DH and I were talking about that, and he said that maybe we should buy another house big enough for guests. (!!) Well, you know what my reaction was. He mitigated it by saying, "no, I mean if we won the lottery!"

When I bought this small house I factored in the possibility that it would be hard to have guests, so I thought that in the rare occasion we have guests up here, putting them up in a local airbnb would be cheaper than supporting a mid-large 3 bedroom house. That's what we've done so far and it's worked out. Not ideal, but as my son tells me, I'm a hermit and I "don't like people" anyway. He may be right--in that having an excuse to not entertain is not a bad strategy. :)

pinkytoe

10-19-21, 2:14pm

Some of us very average to lower wage earners got very lucky by buying real estate 15-20 years ago that ballooned in value. Living frugally all along the way (and now) helps a lot too.

Teacher Terry

10-19-21, 2:54pm

My first condo was 855 sq ft and I had a total of 10 people for thanksgiving. Crowded but had a great time. I now have a guest bedroom to sleep 2 people and a blow up air mattress for the living room. Catherine, people can certainly get hotel rooms. That’s great news about your brother.

bae

10-19-21, 3:28pm

Some of us very average to lower wage earners got very lucky by buying real estate 15-20 years ago that ballooned in value. Living frugally all along the way (and now) helps a lot too.

My Father did All The Right Things. He owned a home, he and his husband had their social security and a small pension to live off of, and so on.

Their equity in the home was destroyed by the last several years' of my father-in-law's medical costs. After his husband died, Dad sold off everything left, moved up by me with just the goods that fit in his aging car, and eventually found a very very small apartment to live in. He lives now on just his single social security income stream, and is spending down the very small amount of equity he managed to hold onto after a lifetime of middle/upper-middle-class "success".

catherine

10-19-21, 3:33pm

My Father did All The Right Things. He owned a home, he and his husband had their social security and a small pension to live off of, and so on.

Their equity in the home was destroyed by the last several years' of my father-in-law's medical costs. After his husband died, Dad sold off everything left, moved up by me with just the goods that fit in his aging car, and eventually found a very very small apartment to live in. He lives now on just his single social security income stream, and is spending down the very small amount of equity he managed to hold onto after a lifetime of middle/upper-middle-class "success".

What is your takeaway, bae?

bae

10-19-21, 3:35pm

What is your takeaway, bae?

"Life is Uncertain, Have Dessert First".

And/Or

"Make sure you have family that can help as you age"

And/Or

"What a system we have, where two people can work hard their whole lives, be successful, have a comfortable retirement for a while, then be wiped clean by medical costs!"

pinkytoe

10-19-21, 6:52pm

The entire medical system in this country is a disaster IMO.

Teacher Terry

10-19-21, 9:45pm

Bae, that also happened to a couple I was close friends with. It’s another reason we need universal HC.

ApatheticNoMore

10-19-21, 10:23pm

"Life is Uncertain, Have Dessert First".

And/Or

"Make sure you have family that can help as you age"

And/Or

"What a system we have, where two people can work hard their whole lives, be successful, have a comfortable retirement for a while, then be wiped clean by medical costs!"

Agree with all of this. Or maybe do what you can, but you don't have the last word, fate does

Yppej

10-20-21, 5:00am

happystuff

10-20-21, 9:28am

I agree, bae. Regardless of hopes, dreams, preparations, etc - things can change in an instant!

Teacher Terry

10-20-21, 11:22am

iris lilies

10-20-21, 12:12pm

The other problem is that it varies by state. In Texas you can legally keep your house and a bunch of your money while Medicaid pays for your spouse’s nursing home care. When you die you can leave your estate to whom ever you want versus paying it back for the care. We need a fair medium method.
I disagree. I think.

Don’t states have to shoulder some of this Medicaid cost? If so, and if a state is rich enough to forgo clawback of the family home, why ever not let that state decide?

Several years ago when I was poking around nursing home costs laws and regulations, one thing that struck me was that the state of Michigan, while having on their books some clawback regulations, did not actually go after that money. Since then things in Michigan could have changed.

In summary if state money goes towards a social welfare program then I think the states get a say in making their own policy.

catherine

10-20-21, 12:26pm

You are both right. It's a mixed bag as to how States/Medicaid/managed care payers manage costs and access, but I've heard that states are stepping in more and more to dictate cost and management, limiting the influence of Pharma and managed care payers/PBMs.

ApatheticNoMore

10-20-21, 12:32pm

Biden could get through expanded Medicare for the elderly. Even my Trumpster neighbor who vehemently opposes socialized medicine likes that idea. But I only hear Sanders talking about it. Biden is stuck on other things like free college and subsidized daycare that will not get enough support.

This is nonsense. The Build Back Better bill (the reconciliation bill) EXPANDS MEDICARE to age 60 and expands Medicare coverage of hearing, optometry, dental etc.

Tradd

10-20-21, 1:06pm

That article was full of so much WTF.

They should have moved to a cheaper location. Get a part time job (both of them).

iris lilies

10-20-21, 1:22pm

That article was full of so much WTF.

They should have moved to a cheaper location. Get a part time job (both of them).

They present as people who like to live in pretty, interesting places.Don’t we all.

They might be able to qualify for senior subsidized housing at that income level, I don’t know.

ApatheticNoMore

10-20-21, 1:28pm

That isn't an expensive location though.

If the book sells at all, I think it's not because it's what people think: how to plan a comfortable retirement, but rather a book on how to be poor in America and get by, for those who don't have much experience in such.

Tybee

10-21-21, 5:53am

Well, I went and bought the Kindle book for 2.99 after looking at the intro, thought it looked interesting. We will see.

rosarugosa

10-21-21, 9:04am

One of our lifelong friends had bought a house in our town back in 1983, and he paid about $50K. He was an ironworker and got badly injured in a terrible accident, lucky he wasn't killed, probably about 30 years ago. He got a settlement, and used some of the money to pay off his mortgage. He married a woman about 10 years younger than him. She stopped working her minimum wage job when they got married, and they have both lived a very meager existence off his SSDI check for all these years. She came into the marriage with no financial assets, and he already had the fully-paid house. They provided a lot of financial help to her daughter from a prior relationship, and 2 grandkids, because the daughter's husband left them. Friend has always let his wife manage all the finances, and there is never money for extras, and not even for things like dental care, home repairs, etc. Apparently they have refinanced again and again as a source of funds, and of course, house is worth way more now (probably @ $350K in current condition). Wife decided she wanted them to sell house and buy a trailer in Maine, and friend doesn't want to do this. Friend finds out she hasn't been paying the bills with his SSDI, and house is going into foreclosure (she had hidden correspondence from the bank so he was unaware). Wife got a restraining order, and friend was living in his truck for a few weeks. They are getting divorced. Anyway . . .
Friend was able to move into our town's subsidized senior housing about 2 weeks ago, and he is happy as a clam. His rent is income based and all utilities are included. His SSDI is more than enough to meet his current needs, and he'll be getting something from the sale of the house in the divorce proceedings. He has a lawyer and she does not. So long story long, although he was initially very focused on keeping his house, now he is relieved to let it go and not have to worry about maintenance and repairs anymore. I think it's a pretty sad story, but I'm glad that things are working out for him. He is a senior citizen, disabled and a veteran, so that's the kind of person I like to see get helped with something like public housing.

PS: Sorry for the novella!

Rogar

10-21-21, 9:54am

"What a system we have, where two people can work hard their whole lives, be successful, have a comfortable retirement for a while, then be wiped clean by medical costs!"

The details might be none of my business, but I'm wondering what types of medical costs could deplete the average worker and saver in old age. I'm familiar with nursing home and assisted living expense and how those could decimate savings and assets by some personal experiences. And also, spending down to qualify for medicaid. But when it comes to just medical I've had the understanding that significant portions of those would be covered by medicare and some of the remainder could be picked up with supplemental insurance. I'm possibly naive about this.

pinkytoe

10-21-21, 10:10am

catherine

10-21-21, 10:33am

I imagine some of these medical wipeouts are due to very expensive drugs or procedures that are only partially covered by insurance. SIL has a lung disease and has been taking a new drug to slow down its progress. The first year the costs were minimal but in the second year they ballooned to over $1500 a month out of pocket for reasons I don't understand. Being retired and still having a small mortgage payment requires that they make some hard decisions on how (or if) to continue with this expense going forward.

Yes, patients are required to pay the cost of some very expensive treatments. Transplantation usually costs 100,000. Biologics that treat rheumatoid arthritis and Crohn's disease and some other conditions are becoming standard of care now, but carry a price tag of up to 85k a year--the insurance companies pay for some of that but not all. I hear more and more that these drugs are unsustainable price-wise. Who can bear the cost when even more expensive drugs come out? Not the insurance company. Not the patient. Not the employers. Something has to give..

Rogar

10-21-21, 11:22am

I was refering to older people who would be on medicare, plus maybe a supplement. My quick search says medicare covers mostof the expenses of transplants, and there is the "doughnut hole" drug coverage will pay for most of a drug cost once a certain minimum has been met. The only things I can think of other than long term care are experimental or unapproved procedures?

mschrisgo2

10-21-21, 4:37pm

I know several people who have had the balance after insurance payment, of their cancers drugs paid by grants from the drug companies. Probably helped that all of them asked for help from the very beginning. One had a drug that “cost” $4500 a month! Thankfully after 8 months of treatment, she is in remission and not taking any drugs now.

i don’t know that many people know this kind of help is available, or would be willing to ask for it.

bae

10-21-21, 4:43pm

The details might be none of my business, but I'm wondering what types of medical costs could deplete the average worker and saver in old age. I'm familiar with nursing home and assisted living expense and how those could decimate savings and assets by some personal experiences. And also, spending down to qualify for medicaid. But when it comes to just medical I've had the understanding that significant portions of those would be covered by medical.

Parkinson's-like symptoms brought on by improper medication, then leading into full-blown Parkinsons and dementia, requiring assisted living and super expensive experimental drugs.

The lawsuit over the improper medication issue will take longer to resolve than my father's expected remaining lifespan, and cost a fortune to pursue.

Yay?

Rogar

10-21-21, 6:06pm

If there is any positive side of things, your father is lucky to have you as a health advocate. My father worked long hours as long as I can recall and didn't retire until late in life. When my mother had a stroke and requried long term nursing care it pretty much consumed his savings. It was heart breaking enough, but the long term care expenses added pain to missery. In my view long term nursing care is like the Hotel California, you can check out any time you want but you can never leave. It's a harsh reality of life for many.