Austria

[Yppej]

Rob, what do you think of your ancestral homeland's approach to covid?

Vaccinated - live life normally.

Not vaccinated - you are locked down and can only leave home to work, buy food, or exercise.

People are lining up in droves there to get their shots.

I wish my city were as smart.

[jp1]

I thought you didn’t like mandates?

[bae]

I thought you didn’t like mandates?

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/000/157/itsatrap.jpg

[Yppej]

I thought you didn’t like mandates?

They are not taking away people's livelihoods by forcing them to get vaccinated or lose their jobs. Temporary restrictions on mobility seem to me more palatable than permanently having something injected in your body that you don't feel comfortable with or landing up homeless because you can't work.

I think often of my mother's cousin, repeatedly raped as a young child, who to this day can't stand for anyone to touch her body and who is therefore anti-vax. She also suffers from bipolar disorder and is very paranoid. (And no, the abuse is not a psychiatric delusion - it has been confirmed by others.) I just don't get how you can force someone not comfortable with it to get the shot. Fortunately she is retired and doesn't face job loss.

But I get your point that being humble in the face of the virus and not thinking we can control it with mandates is the way to go, let it run its course. That would be my first choice.

What appeals to me most about Austria's approach is it eliminates the moral hazard of treating the vaccinated and unvaccinated the same. And that differentiation is getting people to get their shots.

[Rogar]

So, you can still go to work and shop if unvaccinated. I doubt that the courts are going to allow it, but I might favor Biden's plan to requrie vaccination for workers in companies with more than a hundred emplyees. At least as a concept I like them both.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Rob, what do you think of your ancestral homeland's approach to covid?

Vaccinated - live life normally.

Not vaccinated - you are locked down and can only leave home to work, buy food, or exercise.

People are lining up in droves there to get their shots.

I wish my city were as smart.I think it's wonderful! I don't believe there would be that many unvaccinated in Austria to begin with due to social pressure and a different than American take on such things. Rob

[bae]

I think it's wonderful! I don't believe there would be that many unvaccinated in Austria to begin with due to social pressure and a different than American take on such things. Rob

Austria had one of the lowest vaccination rates in Western Europe when the initial set of restrictions the OP commented on were adopted. Might want to reexamine your beliefs.

[jp1]

Austria had one of the lowest vaccination rates in Western Europe when the initial set of restrictions the OP commented on were adopted. Might want to reexamine your beliefs.

And Austria's was/is 5% higher than the current US vax rate. We're doomed. Coming soon to the US, the fifth wave. If only we could have the fifth dimension instead. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbCH5lnZ6sA

[gimmethesimplelife]

Austria had one of the lowest vaccination rates in Western Europe when the initial set of restrictions the OP commented on were adopted. Might want to reexamine your beliefs.I'll look into this more mid week when I have a day off. I'll call my Cousin Astrid in Vienna and google and see if stories match. The Austria I know would not have many unvaccinated - but things including countries change, I'll give you that. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

Update on Austria: There is now a mandate that all Austrians must be vaccinated by February - I don't know what the consequences for refusal are but I can call my relatives and ask.

Now here's an absolute shocker - recently 40,000 Austrians protested ( a shocker in and of itself) against the mandate. Apparently they were chanting that they demanded their freedom. Huh? I honestly don't see a link between vaccination and losing freedom. Austria to.this day is very socialistic and you.have much more freedom from the economic low grade terror that most Americans have normalised by now - kudos to all participating in The Great Resignation, btw - but the price tag for this is expected conformity to society's norms. This is why I'm stunned about the Austrian protestors.

There is also an intense new lockdown. I am proud of Austria and my people for that - putting human life above money - given Austria's participation in the Holocaust I am happy to see this. But apparently Austria has changed a bit. Rob

[iris lilies]

Update on Austria: There is now a mandate that all Austrians must be vaccinated by February - I don't know what the consequences for refusal are but I can call my relatives and ask.

Now here's an absolute shocker - recently 40,000 Austrians protested ( a shocker in and of itself) against the mandate. Apparently they were chanting that they demanded their freedom. Huh? I honestly don't see a link between vaccination and losing freedom. Austria to.this day is very socialistic and you.have much more freedom from the economic low grade terror that most Americans have normalised by now - kudos to all participating in The Great Resignation, btw - but the price tag for this is expected conformity to society's norms. This is why I'm stunned about the Austrian protestors.

There is also an intense new lockdown. I am proud of Austria and my people for that - putting human life above money - given Austria's participation in the Holocaust I am happy to see this. But apparently Austria has changed a bit. Rob

The ultimate government control of me is forcing medical treatment, changes to my body. I would hope to shout that 40,000 people in Austria are protesting this. That gubmnt edict is total bullshit. It’s so astonishing that I had to check your facts because I didn’t believe a country was actually doing that.

Well. They appear to be putting in place a mandate that everyone must be vaccinated. No other European country has done that according to headlines.

These Austrians must be a people who are easily led, given those World War II, umm, issues, and now this.

[Yppej]

Forced vaccinations make me think of Nurse Ratched and Dr. Mengele.

[iris lilies]

Forced vaccinations make me think of Nurse Ratched and Dr. Mengele.

Just to name a few.

[sweetana3]

Law in Austria has not been written. They want it to start in Feb. to give them time to write law. Rather than writing much more, you can get a huge amount of info from this article in the NYT. Note the statistics. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/19/world/europe/austria-covid-vaccine-mandate-lockdown.html

I suspect that they will write a law that is you get vaccinated or are in total lockdown.

[iris lilies]

Law in Austria has not been written. They want it to start in Feb. to give them time to write law. Rather than writing much more, you can get a huge amount of info from this article in the NYT. Note the statistics. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/19/world/europe/austria-covid-vaccine-mandate-lockdown.html

I suspect that they will write a law that is you get vaccinated or are in total lockdown.

cannot read, locked out.

[gimmethesimplelife]

The ultimate government control of me is forcing medical treatment, changes to my body. I would hope to shout that 40,000 people in Austria are protesting this. That gubmnt edit is total bullshit. It’s so astonishing that I had to check your facts because I didn’t believe a country was actually doing that.

Well. They appear to be putting in place a mandate that everyone must be vaccinated. No other European country has done that according to headlines.
-
These Austrians must be a people who are easily led, given those World War II, umm, issues, and now this.This is one thing that creeps me out about Austria - this strong need to conform, kissing the rear end of perceived authority, and to some degree being easily led.

I know many Americans will disagree and that's their right. I find the mandate a good thing - but I also understand that blind conformity led to Austria's annexation to Germany years ago. Rob

[Alan]

This is one thing that creeps me out about Austria - this strong need to conform, kissing the rear end of perceived authority, and to some degree being easily led.
Some people are just easily led. To me, the interesting thing yet to be seen is how this will play out once the laws are written and put in place. Will there be police state type actions where squads of goons wander around accosting people and demanding "papers please", or will they simplify that by demanding anyone not vaccinated to dress a certain way, maybe with some sort of patch sewn on their clothing?

[iris lilies]

This is one thing that creeps me out about Austria - this strong need to conform, kissing the rear end of perceived authority, and to some degree being easily led.

I know many Americans will disagree and that's their right. I find the mandate a good thing - but I also understand that blind conformity led to Austria's annexation to Germany years ago. Rob

I am cheered that you are a little creeped out by “kissing the rear end of authority.” There is hope for you yet. But if this required vaccination isn’t the last degree of government overstep, what *IS* in your opinion?

You do understand there would be consequences for those who do not comply, right? What do you imagine those consequences would be?

[gimmethesimplelife]

I am cheered that you are a little creeped out by “kissing the rear end of authority.” There is hope for you yet. But if this required vaccination isn’t the last degree of government overstep, what *IS* in your opinion?

You do understand there would be consequences for those who do not comply, right? What do you imagine those consequences would be?Given Austria's checkered past in both WW1 and WW2, I can't blame Americans - or anyone else - for wariness regarding potential consequences. Though I will say one nice thing for Austrian police - when I was in Vienna in 2015, I was blessed by witnessing history - I witnessed a long stream of refugees being escorted by Austrian police to trains leaving for Germany. The police were almost polite in their handling of the refugees and there no visible vibe of the arrogance and above the law mentality so prevalent in US police.

Would this humane attitude be prevalent in cases of anti vaxcers? I honestly don't know. I will be watching this with interest. Probably I can google on the bus on.my way to work. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

I am cheered that you are a little creeped out by “kissing the rear end of authority.” There is hope for you yet. But if this required vaccination isn’t the last degree of government overstep, what *IS* in your opinion?

You do understand there would be consequences for those who do not comply, right? What do you imagine those consequences would be? Came back to add - I personally don't consider mandates governmental overreach - I see them as an attempt to minimze unnecessary illness and death. Also as a way to keep hospital beds open for those suffering from something other than covid.

But yes - I admit I worry what exactly any potential consequence for non-compliance might be. For me this is even more worrisome than DJT antagozing Mexico, potentially losing some US lives due to lack of access to affordable health care across the border.

I hope for the best. Rob

[Teacher Terry]

I agree with IL that requiring vaccination is way overstepping the authority of a government. I am really shocked that they are considering making this a law.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I agree with IL that requiring vaccination is way overstepping the authority of a government. I am really shocked that they are considering making this a law.It could be argued by some that mandatory education until a certain age is overreach. Would you want the consequences of a larger number of young people with no prospects and nothing to lose?

And flipping the script, would you want the consequences of larger number of US covid deaths - deaths that could have been prevented via mandates? At least some of these deaths, anyway.

I vote for mandatory vaccination and educatiom to a certain grade/age. But I also understand that many will not agree with me. However I must vote for human life via vaccination. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/10/08/poll-support-vaccine-mandates-students-515657

[gimmethesimplelife]

Above is an article claiming most Americans support vaccine mandates. I can tell you the few neighbors I run into these days support mandates - many of them work at the airport so that's understandable. All my relations do and I've heard cashiers at work supporting mandates but I kept myself out of that conversation. It's far from just myself supporting mandates - but it's also true a sizeable number of Americans don't.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Forgot to add - the above article has an interesting twist - the focus of a potential mandate for school aged kids to be vaccinated. How do you'all view that? Rob

[Teacher Terry]

I am for kids being vaccinated to attend school. This is nothing new. If a employer wants to mandate it that’s fine. Both still give people choices. I am triple vaccinated for Covid but it was my choice.

[Yppej]

Came back to add - I personally don't consider mandates governmental overreach - I see them as an attempt to minimze unnecessary illness and death. Also as a way to keep hospital beds open for those suffering from something other than covid.

I support triaging hospital admissions so that the unvaccinated wait until all vaccinated people are seen first.

I believe a policy like this would get a good number of the unvaccinated to get their shots without a vaccine mandate.

[Tybee]

I support triaging hospital admissions so that the unvaccinated wait until all vaccinated people are seen first.

I believe a policy like this would get a good number of the unvaccinated to get their shots without a vaccine mandate.

Wow, I think this is a horrible idea. I hope this never happens.

[Yppej]

Wow, I think this is a horrible idea. I hope this never happens.

I would make an exception for minors since they need parental permission so it's not up to them and some are too young for the shot.

This is already happening on a smaller scale. If you need an organ transplant you better be vaccinated.

[iris lilies]

Forgot to add - the above article has an interesting twist - the focus of a potential mandate for school aged kids to be vaccinated. How do you'all view that? Rob

There are several points to consider here. First, our federal government is not mandating anything. Your Mother country Austria comparison is not an apples to apples one. Granted, Austria is a little smaller than Maine, so there might be a legitimate geographic comparison to our state health departments that set standards.

I am more accepting of state and local control and their reactions to health situations since they can react quicker to situations on the ground. I am opposed to most (all?) federal mandates that are one-size-fits-all. Our CDC does not mandate behavior. It makes recommendations that states and localities can take or leave.

If children and dogs gather together in a gaggle, I guess it’s pretty much fine with me if some minimum inoculation standards are set, especially for diseases that wipe out kids. That is, as long as there are reasonable exceptions that may be made.

The same thing goes for educational standards. Those are set by the state, and localities comply with minimum standards and then make their own additional standards if they choose.. I can assure you that while educational standards are similar across states, they are not the same. There are plenty of ways to get out of “mandated educational attainment” via homeschool, unschool, and as we have learned in this recent pandemic, no schooling.

Yes, no compliance with State standards, some of them weak anyway, has been obvious in the pandemic. If you think state educational departments are looking at children who are not attending any school at all, please research that and you will find otherwise. Just in the influencer blogosphere there are so many children of influencers who are not checking into any kind of mandated program, and those tend to be the privileged kids. God only knows what the urban core kids up in North St. Louis are doing during pandemic when they attend school only sporadically anyway in normal times

[bae]

I support triaging hospital admissions so that the unvaccinated wait until all vaccinated people are seen first.

I believe a policy like this would get a good number of the unvaccinated to get their shots without a vaccine mandate.

Some people are just monsters.

[Yppej]

Imagine you are a hero first responder and notice a very impaired driver pulling out of the parking lot of the bar weaving all over the place. The driver slams into another vehicle that has been driven normally. Both vehicles burst into flames and you can only rescue one person. Who do you save since your resources are limited?

[boss mare]

Imagine you are a hero first responder and notice a very impaired driver pulling out of the parking lot of the bar weaving all over the place. The driver slams into another vehicle that has been driven normally. Both vehicles burst into flames and you can only rescue one person. Who do you save since your resources are limited?

I posed this to my DH who has 41, almost 42 years as a first responder . His answer is : who has the car that is the least on fire and most accessible is the one to try and save first. You will also call for back up.

By the way, your passive aggressive BS is not a good look on you

[Yppej]

I posed this to my DH who has 41, almost 42 years as a first responder . His answer is : who has the car that is the least on fire and most accessible is the one to try and save first. You will also call for back up.

By the way, your passive aggressive BS is not a good look on you

There should not be a space after responder. The use of a colon in the following sentence is odd and the space before it is wrong. The last sentence should end with a period.

[herbgeek]

Imagine you are a hero first responder

As I've mentioned multiple times before, you too could be a hero. Either as a first responder or in some other way, but it would require intention, planning and effort from you. Much easier to criticize from the sidelines. You could use your jealousy as fuel to do something good for your own community.

[boss mare]

There should not be a space after responder. The use of a colon in the following sentence is odd and the space before it is wrong. The last sentence should end with a period



Jeppy .....To quote the 1980's iconic movie Ferris Bueller's Day Off : Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around, you could miss it"

What a sad life you lead.


The Fun Horse Fact of the Day : USEF/FEI actually has rules on showing sidesaddle.
Under tack and equipment :Rule HU149.1 : Sandwich case: Required for appointments. Must be combined sandwich case and flask. Must contain a plain-white meat sandwich, with crusts removed, cut on the diagonal, wrapped in wax paper, a linen handkerchief or napkin is optional and flask must contain sherry or tea.

As an aside, the show steward or the judge can check to see if riders in the class are in compliance in this class and in all classes.
A fact about me: I was a carded show steward for an affiliation of USEF from 2000 to 2009.

[Yppej]

What a sad life you lead.


The Fun Horse Fact of the Day : USEF/FEI actually has rules on showing sidesaddle.
Under tack and equipment :Rule HU149.1 : Sandwich case: Required for appointments. Must be combined sandwich case and flask. Must contain a plain-white meat sandwich, with crusts removed, cut on the diagonal, wrapped in wax paper, a linen handkerchief or napkin is optional and flask must contain sherry or tea.


What sad punctuation around colons. Too much sherry?

[Yppej]

As I've mentioned multiple times before, you too could be a hero. Either as a first responder or in some other way, but it would require intention, planning and effort from you. Much easier to criticize from the sidelines. You could use your jealousy as fuel to do something good for your own community.

I am working to free my community from a mask mandate.

[boss mare]

What sad punctuation around colons. Too much sherry?

You really get off on being passive aggressive towards someone who has dyslexia? Wow!!!!

[happystuff]

Again, love the fun horse facts! Side-saddle - I always thought it looked sooooo uncomfortable and take so much more effort. Thanks for the fun facts.

[gimmethesimplelife]

The plot thickens....insert the original Twilight Zone theme. Germany is considering an intense lockdown and vaccine mandates for all. Did my Homeland start a trend? We'll see as time goes on. Rob

[boss mare]

Again, love the fun horse facts! Side-saddle - I always thought it looked sooooo uncomfortable and take so much more effort. Thanks for the fun facts.

It's not uncomfortable if the saddle fits correctly. And although there is a learning curve, it's not as hard as it looks. My second husband and I got married on horseback and I had an older lady lend me her saddle and gave me lessons for six months before the wedding.

[Yppej]

The plot thickens....insert the original Twilight Zone theme. Germany is considering an intense lockdown and vaccine mandates for all. Did my Homeland start a trend? We'll see as time goes on. Rob

Well in China they padlocked people on their apartments and welded the doors shut. It still didn't stop covid. Humans are very arrogant in thinking they can control nature. Some humility, and learning to live with the virus, is in order because it will never go away.

[happystuff]

It's not uncomfortable if the saddle fits correctly. And although there is a learning curve, it's not as hard as it looks. My second husband and I got married on horseback and I had an older lady lend me her saddle and gave me lessons for six months before the wedding.

That sounds so cool! I can only imagine how beautiful the wedding pictures are.

[boss mare]

That sounds so cool! I can only imagine how beautiful the wedding pictures are.

We got married in 1989. Only lasted 7 years. This is the only picture I have 4096
I had the horse for 26 years before I had to put him down at age 31 . That horse changed my life in so many ways

[bae]

I love your horse tidbits!

[jp1]

I am working to free my community from a mask mandate.

Keep up with the OCD. It truly is your strong suit.

[rosarugosa]

We got married in 1989. Only lasted 7 years. This is the only picture I have 4096
I had the horse for 26 years before I had to put him down at age 31 . That horse changed my life in so many ways

What a great picture!

[iris lilies]

We got married in 1989. Only lasted 7 years. This is the only picture I have 4096
I had the horse for 26 years before I had to put him down at age 31 . That horse changed my life in so many ways

how pretty!

[early morning]

What a lovely picture, boss mare! And a beautiful horse! I too love the horse tidbits and facts of the day. thanks so much for sharing.

[happystuff]

Absolutely beautiful!!! Thanks so much for sharing.

[Teacher Terry]

Beautiful picture!!

[LDAHL]

The plot thickens....insert the original Twilight Zone theme. Germany is considering an intense lockdown and vaccine mandates for all. Did my Homeland start a trend? We'll see as time goes on. Rob

I’ve read that in Germany, you must now prove you are fully vaccinated before your death by assisted suicide.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Update re: Austria and the vaccine mandate. My Cousin Astrid told me the consequence of non-compliance is a 600 Euro fine equalling USD $686.56 as of my posting this. Now get this - it's a 600 Euro fine EVERY MONTH one remains non-compliant. Ouch!

I still believe in the Austrian way here - wasn't polio eradicated in the US via mandatory vaccination? Why have some percentage of first world citizens decided to make mandatory vaccination an issue? I just don't get it. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

I’ve read that in Germany, you must now prove you are fully vaccinated before your death by assisted suicide.If this is true - I'd agree this is bizarre - in this one instance. Rob

[iris lilies]

If this is true - I'd agree this is bizarre - in this one instance. Rob

I don’t know, depends on the reason for the legislation. If they’re looking at suicide purely as a medical treatment, and they expect citizens to be vaccinated before they enter into the healthcare system, it makes basic sense systemically.sort of.

But mandated vaccination just to walk around my own country? Naw. That is ridiculous.

[Teacher Terry]

I don’t think the Covid vaccine should be mandatory.

[Yppej]

Update re: Austria and the vaccine mandate. My Cousin Astrid told me the consequence of non-compliance is a 600 Euro fine equalling USD $686.56 as of my posting this. Now get this - it's a 600 Euro fine EVERY MONTH one remains non-compliant. Ouch!

I still believe in the Austrian way here - wasn't polio eradicated in the US via mandatory vaccination? Why have some percentage of first world citizens decided to make mandatory vaccination an issue? I just don't get it. Rob

As I read Eisenhower's proclamation below the polio vaccine was not mandatory when introduced. He wrote, "I do not believe that regulatory legislation in this field is necessary."

https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/statement-the-president-the-polio-vaccine-situation

People lined up to get the vaccine. The issue was insufficient initial supply, not insufficient demand. Then again, many people knew a child crippled by polio, and all knew of FDR. No comparable young victim of national stature exists for covid, which I read described yesterday as a disease that takes the lives of the very old, the very ill, and rarely the very unlucky.

[razz]

Absolutely beautiful!!! Thanks so much for sharing.

That is a picture to treasure. Amazing horse as well.

[LDAHL]

If this is true - I'd agree this is bizarre - in this one instance. Rob

People need to get close to administer the poison, I suppose.

[Tybee]

Thanks, Yppej, for giving the link to Eisenhower's proclamation.

I remember lining up for the polio vaccines--the whole town walked down to the elementary school, adults and children, and everyone got a sugar cube in a little cup that had the vaccine in it.

There was a feeling of joy in that room that day.