View Full Version : Another Friend Who Is A Secret Hoarder
I've been helping a casual friend get ready to move two times in the past month and only yesterday did I get a complete picture of how much of a hoarder (and procrastinator) she truly is. She has known she's had to move for at least four months now and is now surprised at how much she needs to get done to be out by Friday (tomorrow). She truly has no capacity to see what a bind she has put herself in. I was helping her yesterday and the chaos of stuff to be packed/tossed/stored is pretty bad. When I went into the bedroom to take care of it I was very saddened to see all the her clothes in heaps on the floor of the closet in drifts, and on the floor of the bedroom mixed in with dust bunnies, dirt and other detritus; a virtual pigsty. She has horrible asthma and psoriatic arthritis and the conditions in which she has been living are kind of sad.
The rest of her house/gallery was a chaotic mess; she was just throwing stuff willy-nilly into boxes to be put into storage. Then during this all this, it was
suddenly time to go through drifts of papers and unopened mail that had been sitting around for several years...
That being said, people never cease to amaze me. I was proud of myself for keeping my boundaries and not taking on more physical work than I can handle these days. I told her I could work from 10-2 on Wednesday but was busy Thursday and Friday and wouldn't be able to help. And I got $50 out of it.
iris lilies
3-31-22, 10:58pm
Ugh, I feel for you.
It was very kind of you to try and help her. She sounds quite troubled.
I've been going through photo albums and having a really hard time throwing anything out. I need to think long term here.
I've been going through photo albums and having a really hard time throwing anything out. I need to think long term here.
Yeah, photos are my "hoard" too. And ephemera and documents.
Today we're going to make a trip to the storage shed with some of the boxes we brought up from NJ a few months ago. I was trying to condense/throw out things, but my throw out pile was pretty small. However, I am happy with the fact that the sum total of my memorabilia is about 3 medium-sized boxes. (Really, I can't take total credit for that--three basement floods have helped!) I have to thank I think the kids could deal with that if DH and I died tomorrow. The pictures are harder because I have inherited my MIL's also. Like you, Tybee, I have to do something with them.
SiouzQ, wow. You should hold a class in decluttering for your community! :). Problem is, the people who need that class won't sign up and even if they took it, they probably wouldn't act on it I think people get so "stuck" and if there are any mental issues mixed in, it's really hard. Sometimes the only mental issue is an inability to compartmentalize and put one foot in front of the other. You are so good to help your friends out.
iris lilies
4-1-22, 8:32am
I came across a set of professional photos my mother had hired of our big
victorian house before we moved. It is sad how poorly colored photos from the 1970’s age. I compare those to the fabulous black-and-white photographs taken of Campbell house Victorian museum here in St. Louis, photos taken from the 1880s, which are clear and representative of that house of the time.
But anyway, it is fortuitous that my cousin is on the board of a historical society that wants to purchase this house for their historical museum. I shipped the photos to him with notes about what was in the rooms and what the house was like at the time we lived there. He said it gave him a leg up in understanding what the house looks like because his group hasn’t even been in it yet. So the photographs got a good home, I kept scans of a few.
Oh God, now it’s eating me that I threw something away that was important. I threw it away decades ago. Oh my God.ugh. The thing I threw away was a piece of architecture from this old house, a corner piece of woodwork, a hand carved flower in wood that was a corner piece above the doors. This house had several of them.
The reason why this is important is because it demonstrates original rooms were changed. Oy vey. I mean, we all know the house was added to and changed up, but this might have given evidence to figure out the puzzle.
I seldom regret throwing anything away and out of the thousands of things I threw away, it’s probably only been 2 or 3 for which I have regret.
iris lilies
4-1-22, 9:14am
I gave the original photos of my parents house from 1910 to the guy who bought it. His wife is turning it into a b and b, and she is very excited about any historical stuff with the house, so I let it go to her. I'm a little creeped out that she plans to keep some of my parents' rooms as sort of a museum to them, but as long as I never go back, I should be okay. I don't think I can ever bear to see that house again, so painful, how my brother took it from me.
i am sorry your family house gives your pain. I have to ask, with your mother being an attorney, why didnt she have clear legal instruction to pass it on to you in the form of your name on the deed or her will or whatever legal instrument?
I once helped a non hoarder friend move. She was, however, a massive procrastinator. I got to her place the day of moving and very little was done. I took boxes and just started dumping things into the boxes. She protested some. I told her she had no say over how I packed (breakables were packed properly) since she couldn’t be bothered to do it herself. I also said I was NEVER helping her move again. And I didn’t. It was from one college apartment to another.
iris lilies
4-1-22, 12:08pm
I once helped a non hoarder friend move. She was, however, a massive procrastinator. I got to her place the day of moving and very little was done. I took boxes and just started dumping things into the boxes. She protested some. I told her she had no say over how I packed (breakables were packed properly) since she couldn’t be bothered to do it herself. I also said I was NEVER helping her move again. And I didn’t. It was from one college apartment to another.
I often have said this in the past, but one of the epitaphs I would like to have on my gravestone will be “She never asked anyone to help her move households.”
iris lilies
4-1-22, 12:11pm
As an adult I learned fairly early to set limits on this sort of thing.
I helped a couple of people move and learned the hard way that you have to set limits. After that I helped, not as in “I will help you move “ but as in “I can spend two hours on Saturday to help you move. “
This latter boundary setting allowed me to be cheerful in my application of work and put up with whatever method the decision-maker wants me to carry out, and it’s not my problem if the decision-maker doesn’t get moved by the deadline. I don’t own that problem and I do not need to solve the problem.
I’m having to apply some of that boundary setting in my own household move. In the past 2-3 years I’ve been jettisoning the items that are exclusively mine, finding a way to be rid of them. There are things that exclusively belong to DH, and those are his to figure out how to move.
Unlike most normal Americans, I’m sure we will be unable to hire a moving company. That would be outside the scope of what we do because that is too normal! Ha ha! DH will control that and has already said no we’re not gonna hire a company.
I do think it’s possible he might rent a U-Haul truck, load everything on his back, load it into the truck, unload everything on his back and put it into our Hermann house. I see him doing that. Did I mention that he’s nearly 70 years old? This is not good use of his time nor is it healthful for him.
This is a circus that is not mine. While he is my dear beloved monkey of a husband, I don’t really own this problem. I do think, because DH generally honors his obligations, he will meet any closing date of selling our house. He will be moving his stuff out by that date. As long as we have at least two weeks notice I think he can achieve it.
I know this has been my mantra, so forgive me, but I don't care what "valuable" may have wound up in the dumpster, or how much more we could have gotten for the 24 DVD players we practically gave away to a guy who said they were going to poor communities in Africa, I am SO HAPPY that I have largely spared my children the odious task of decades of stuff to go through. I REALLY hope I can keep it all reined in. I'm trying.
Ironically, a couple of my kids were UPSET that we got rid of some of the stuff we did. Mostly it was my picker SIL and my daughter who felt that way but they're over it now and they'll thank us later.
It's true, they can't understand yet about that metaphor that you are moving your "life caravan" around with you, and after a while, it just gets overwhelming. I gave my son his childhood school drawings and stories last week so he could share them with his son. It was only one folder, but it's a start.
Here's a random and half-serious question:
Do you think people who tend to hold on to things vs people who get rid of things have signs of the zodiac that are correlated?
Taurus is an earth sign, so maybe Taureans (?) might be more inclined to keep things.. Cancer values home so may be more likely to hold onto stuff related to place.
OTOH, maybe the less "grounded" horoscope signs, like Pisces or Sagitarrius are less likely to value certain material things.
What do you think? At the risk of sounding totally woo-woo New-Agey, just for fun, what's your sign, and are you a Keeper or a Purger?
iris lilies
4-1-22, 1:21pm
Here's a random and half-serious question:
Do you think people who tend to hold on to things vs people who get rid of things have signs of the zodiac that are correlated?
Taurus is an earth sign, so maybe Taureans (?) might be more inclined to keep things.. Cancer values home so may be more likely to hold onto stuff related to place.
OTOH, maybe the less "grounded" horoscope signs, like Pisces or Sagitarrius are less likely to value certain material things.
What do you think? At the risk of sounding totally woo-woo New-Agey, just for fun, what's your sign, and are you a Keeper or a Purger?
In a word, No.
I am Taurus and I can purge almost as well as Teacher Terry.
My cousin is a hoarder, I mean serious hoarding. His birthday is a few days from mine as Taurus.
Years ago he mentioned something about Taurus people liking to save stuff , but I don’t know where he got that and clearly didn’t apply to me.
People who can purge and people who cannot purge share some similarities within their group, I think, my opinion only:
Executive function operation on our brain works in similar ways. We share values and have similar outlooks on life.
I’m not saying one way is right or wrong, but I do know I’m extremely forward looking, I don’t have sentiment about much in the past, at least I don’t have sentiment tied to physical objects. My memory stick is activated by thoughts of past experience (activities.) That is why in today’s life I value activities and experiences, and not so much items. And that ties in with “language of love “ where mine is acts of service which is kind of an activity, right?
In a word, No.
You're no fun, IL ;)
I can purge easily. With dive gear, when I’m no over using it, I sell it. Lots of divers think I’m crazy for selling stuff, but I have a small one bedroom apt. I don’t have the room to keep stuff. I’ll often put the money towards something else or into the scuba fund. I’m going through all my (non-scuba) stuff again. Things have gotten a bit built up and I need to decluttering some. Part of it is just organizing better. Been stashing stuff like out of season clothes in tubs I already had and putting them in the closet. That helps. Too much stuff was out and in sight and driving me bats.
I am a Pisces. The stuff that’s valuable to me are pretty much books. I’ve been keeping a handwritten journal the past two years. I’ll keep those for a while. It’s been cheap therapy.
I am a Pisces. The stuff that’s valuable to me are pretty much books. I’ve been keeping a handwritten journal the past two years. I’ll keep those for a while. It’s been cheap therapy.
Hmmm.. A Pisces who feels their true place of bliss is in the water.. veddy intedesting.
Hmmm.. A Pisces who feels their true place of bliss is in the water.. veddy intedesting.
I joke that I’m channeling my inner fish. :D
I now am very careful of volunteering to help anyone move. A "friend" asked for help moving her apartment from one complex across the street to a different one. Problem: She was on the 2nd floor and had a whole moving van of heavy fabric and such to move. Hundreds of boxes. I think the three of us and two cars made 15 trips before I said enough and went home (and it was not done). Pizza was not enough so we passed on dinner.
I find it interesting that my friend is a Spirit Medium/Professional Physic/Counselor and makes a very good living doing "readings" and other physic work with her clients. That is part of the reason why I find it so fascinating that in her home life she is COMPLETELY disorganized with her own stuff...
iris lilies
4-1-22, 3:35pm
I find it interesting that my friend is a Spirit Medium/Professional Physic/Counselor and makes a very good living doing "readings" and other physic work with her clients. That is part of the reason why I find it so fascinating that in her home life she is COMPLETELY disorganized with her own stuff...
I don’t see these skills or life values or whatever as conflicting. Hmmm, what are you seeing?
I guess I could uncharitably say “her brain is foggy and she performs Woo “work. “Yeah that fits.” I mean it is all pretty spacey and non-pragmatic, right?
I find it interesting that my friend is a Spirit Medium/Professional Physic/Counselor and makes a very good living doing "readings" and other physic work with her clients. That is part of the reason why I find it so fascinating that in her home life she is COMPLETELY disorganized with her own stuff...
That seems very strange to me, too, as generally, people who work in energy and spirit fields are drawn to serene, peaceful spaces and find clutter disturbing.
ApatheticNoMore
4-1-22, 4:54pm
I don't see the conflicts people point out, I mean suppose one didn't perform anything resembling woo work, they were an engineer let's say. There is nothing that prevents their house from being messy if that's how they are. Ha ok my mom is like that. It's all just silly generalizations, when people may be more compartmentalized. And anyway some people hold on to things out of emotional attachment some for more what seem like more practical reasons (like what if I ever need all those rubber bands I saved huh? jk)
With the few hoarders I have worked with, I have still never been able to figure out the inability to even throw away dirty Kleenex and actual trash...one house I went into a long time ago (not to work, but to have some music recorded by the husband) had DIRTY USED BANDAIDS STUCK TO THE BATHROOM WALL. I have never used a bathroom that was so freakin' disgusting in my life. It was the guy's wife that was the hoarder, and he had to/chose to live with it.
iris lilies
4-1-22, 7:49pm
With the few hoarders I have worked with, I have still never been able to figure out the inability to even throw away dirty Kleenex and actual trash...one house I went into a long time ago (not to work, but to have some music recorded by the husband) had DIRTY USED BANDAIDS STUCK TO THE BATHROOM WALL. I have never used a bathroom that was so freakin' disgusting in my life. It was the guy's wife that was the hoarder, and he had to/chose to live with it.
The reality is probably the hoarding practice has nothing to do with what they do for a living.
iris lilies
4-1-22, 7:59pm
With the few hoarders I have worked with, I have still never been able to figure out the inability to even throw away dirty Kleenex and actual trash...one house I went into a long time ago (not to work, but to have some music recorded by the husband) had DIRTY USED BANDAIDS STUCK TO THE BATHROOM WALL. I have never used a bathroom that was so freakin' disgusting in my life. It was the guy's wife that was the hoarder, and he had to/chose to live with it.
My hoarder cousin who I love and who has been a pretty successful professional person although I haven’t seen his home place in the last 10 years, once confessed to me that he feels like hoarding dollar bills. Not ‘ cause it represents money. I don’t know what that’s about. None of the hoarding, true pathological hoarding, makes any sense.
I am a Taurus and my sister is an Aquarius and Mom is a Capricorn. Mom has had periods in her life where I would call her a quasi-hoarder. Sister and I both have stock-up tendencies, but neither of us is a hoarder. We cull our belongings frequently. I do tend to form longer-term attachments to things, but I also tend to try to "buy it for life." Sis really enjoys the act of shopping, so objects flow through her life more, and she would just as soon buy cheaper items that need to be replaced more often.
I've given a bit of thought to the need to stock up, and I think it's a way to feel some sense of control in life, e.g. "I can't fix Ukraine or cure Mom's Alzheimer's, but I can make sure I never run out of my preferred socks or good quality soap!" I think a lot of behaviors relate to that need to feel some semblance of control. It can be such diverse activities as prayer, keeping lists, making spreadsheets. I believe my sister's shopping behavior has a component of this as well, e.g. "I can't solve my relationship problems, but I can buy a new lamp!"
happystuff
4-2-22, 10:37am
I am a Taurus and my sister is an Aquarius and Mom is a Capricorn. Mom has had periods in her life where I would call her a quasi-hoarder. Sister and I both have stock-up tendencies, but neither of us is a hoarder. We cull our belongings frequently. I do tend to form longer-term attachments to things, but I also tend to try to "buy it for life." Sis really enjoys the act of shopping, so objects flow through her life more, and she would just as soon buy cheaper items that need to be replaced more often.
I've given a bit of thought to the need to stock up, and I think it's a way to feel some sense of control in life, e.g. "I can't fix Ukraine or cure Mom's Alzheimer's, but I can make sure I never run out of my preferred socks or good quality soap!" I think a lot of behaviors relate to that need to feel some semblance of control. It can be such diverse activities as prayer, keeping lists, making spreadsheets. I believe my sister's shopping behavior has a component of this as well, e.g. "I can't solve my relationship problems, but I can buy a new lamp!"
I was wondering how to explain my tendencies and you have hit the nail on the head, rr! I, too, have "stock up tendencies". It used to be I would hold on to stuff because "I may need this later!". I think/hope I've gotten past a lot of that, but still do stock up on some things. Mainly food. I consider myself a lifelong work-in-progress. Oh, and I'm a Pisces.
The reality is probably the hoarding practice has nothing to do with what they do for a living.
Yeah, one of my secrets is that I like to watch "Hoarders" on tv. I remember one home they featured where the owner collected all his pet's hair and would not part with it. Something going on there ---I think the hoarding was secondary.
Regarding photos: We moved three times in ten years, downsizing each time. The first time we moved boxes of photos in their dated envelopes. The second time, we went through every envelope and allowed ourselves a selection of one or two photos. We digitized these, put captions on them, and tossed the rest.
It was hard, but it was necessary.
Teacher Terry
4-2-22, 4:15pm
When I was married to my second husband we moved ourselves because he was very careful and I knew nothing would get ruined. With husband 3 I hired movers because I had nice furniture and I knew he wouldn’t be careful. I am a Cancer and the older I get the less sentimental. I was more so when younger but moving cross country a few times with 5 people gave me the cure.
It's so good for me to read threads like these because it's totally clear to me that I could easily end up like your friend the closet hoarder if I don't stay vigilant. I've made a lot of progress over the last six years, but there's no guarantee I won't backslide. I definitely have serious hoarder tendencies, and I don't want to leave my only child with a lot of stuff to deal with.
I once went to a meeting of Clutterers Anonymous and was struck by the fact that almost everyone there was over 60. I think hoarding is a "progressive disease" (as alcoholism can be), and many people who stay on top of it when they are younger find it gets out of hand later.
Helped the sister of a friend condense her storage units today. She has/had 1 large unit and 1 smaller unit, which we condensed down to the 1 large unit. (She has moved out of state and is waiting to "land", so....).
Glad to help her but was proud of myself for drawing some lines. I did NOT bring home everything she had in the donation pile, as I just don't have room for all of it! I did take some stuff and provided her with some contact information on three local thrift stores for her to contact tomorrow. Of the stuff I bought home, 11 brand new canning jars will stay, seeing if a neighbor wants some fishing stuff, and the rest is packed up and ready for my next donation pickup. Good day all around! :)
I find working with friends to help move, or clearing spaces to get ready to sell really helps me at my house to try to keep the clutter down. Also, remembering almost 6 years ago I got rid of almost everything I owned to move out here has helped. Living in the tiny apartment behind the gallery for three years definitely helped. But now I have a 1500 sq. ft. house on almost an acre and the creep of stuff is happening. But it's all good stuff, and useful for the life I have now. Art is on the walls, books are in the shelves, and nice kitchen equipment allows us to cook good meals every night.
I can see myself, years down the road when I have inevitably outlived my current husband, doing the whole down-sizing thing once again. There is no way I could handle this house on my own, so I would have to sell. But for now, I am going to enjoy this lifestyle I never thought I could have. And declutter stuff that is not useful to me. Our little town has an amazing flow of goods from person-to-person. The travels various useful items get is truly amazing! I have two previously owned decent leather couches I got for free!
Enjoy your life, SQ. What a remarkable adventure you are having with your move to NM.
Regarding photos: We moved three times in ten years, downsizing each time. The first time we moved boxes of photos in their dated envelopes. The second time, we went through every envelope and allowed ourselves a selection of one or two photos. We digitized these, put captions on them, and tossed the rest.
It was hard, but it was necessary.
A few years ago, I did something similar. Mostly vacation photos still have to finish going through personal / family photos but at this point I whittled it down to 2 small boxes. I hope by the time I am done it's down to just one box.
As an adult I learned fairly early to set limits on this sort of thing.
I helped a couple of people move and learned the hard way that you have to set limits. After that I helped, not as in “I will help you move “ but as in “I can spend two hours on Saturday to help you move. “
One time DH and I moved some friends of his. In spite of knowing months in advance they were moving, they were not in any way prepared when we (and other friends) showed up. Just by luck, we had a commitment later that day that required us to leave by a certain time (1-2 PM) and we said so from the outset. We packed up their stuff in their condo and were getting ready to leave when they said "wait there's more" and opened up their garage. It was packed floor to ceiling, to much groaning. We left anyway but it sure showed us the importance of setting limits, even if it was by chance that time.
I had a side hustle as a professional organizer for about 10-12 years before I shut it down the end of 2019 (guess i had a feeling?). At any rate, I did try to help a couple of hoarders, against my own best judgment. I didn't have the training for it. I think they enjoyed working with me and I tried to be patient, but neither would work on the "homework" i gave them between sessions. I found this website to be helpful - it's called "challenging disorganization" not hoarding now. Lots of ways folks experience it. I do think it's linked to mental illness. Both of the folks I tried to help said they wanted a less cluttered home so their adult children and grandchildren would feel welcome, but their attachments to family mementos and collections were too strong.
https://www.challengingdisorganization.org/clutter-hoarding-scale-
I am a Cancer and the older I get the less sentimental. I was more so when younger but moving cross country a few times with 5 people gave me the cure.
The only things I still am deeply attached to at 72 are those my mother made. On these last moves, I began letting many of them go. I agree with you that moving long distances, especially to smaller places, really helped.
iris lilies
4-8-22, 10:46pm
Today I sat and had a long chat with a garden club friend who is 80 years old. She’s talking about moving out of her house of 40 some years. Her new place must have three bedrooms. Three! She must have three bedrooms! Because there are so many things that she must take with her, she will not give them up! She is the only person in her household.
i’m just shaking my head. It’s going to be quite a while until she finds a condo with three bedrooms on one floor which she must have. It all have to be on one floor, but a condo. Not a ranch house. Although did she did say that she could live with two bedrooms on one floor and the third bedroom could be down in the basement.
Teacher Terry
4-9-22, 12:40am
IL, I predict your friend is just talking and probably won’t move. It’s interesting to see other’s condos that live in my building. Some people think they just need more storage or furniture and then everything will fit. What they actually need is less stuff. Some realize it and their condo is neat and uncluttered. My clothes take up a third of one closet and I have one dresser. Some store clothes in boxes under the bed, all the closets are stuffed and some rent storage units.
IL, I predict your friend is just talking and probably won’t move. It’s interesting to see other’s condos that live in my building. Some realize it and their condo is neat and uncluttered. My clothes take up a third of one closet and I have one dresser. Some store clothes in boxes under the bed, all the closets are stuffed and some rent storage units.
Yes, I've found that to be an important mental shift myself living in such a small house, "Some people think they just need more storage... What they actually need is less stuff."
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