View Full Version : Ramit Sethi
I never heard of this guy until iris lilies mentioned him, and then I heard him on a Tim Ferriss podcast. I really, really like him. He has filled the gap for me since Dave Ramsey went into semi-retirement. I am at the moment watching him on Netflix, and I also get his newsletters in my inbox.
Right now I'm feeling so discouraged. Since the house sold I paid down a decent chunk in debt and also put the max into my Roth. I also put money into some individual stocks for fun--like Toyota, which is considered a good investment at the moment since they are so big on hybrids when people are not ready to jump into EVs. I also put money into a medical device firm, and a cannabis company. All those individual stocks I'm very conservative with but it's better than playing the VT lottery. I do my homework and am trying to pick solid undervalued stocks that I just have a gut feeling about.
Then DH drops the bomb that the boat needs a new ENGINE!!! We bought the boat new 7 years ago and apparently the engine is all messed up and the particular make and model type of engine is out of business. A new engine is costing $22,000. I am heartsick, and DH knows it. Anyone could say, wow, first world problem. You don't NEED a boat. And DH did say we could just dry dock it for a while without a motor. But our lifestyle has depended heavily on our time on the water and also DH truly is working towards starting this boat tour business which I do endorse because if anyone can be successful at that venture it's him. He is about halfway through his Coast Guard course, which is a requirement for this type of business.
So now I'm in the throes of depression over being back to square one, and the fact that we don't have money to throw around. This is serious. So I'm trying to get support and inspiration from the financial program I joined and from financial experts like Ramit Sethi. At the moment he's making me feel OK. So thanks for that IL.
This started out as a "review" of Ramit Sethi but ended up as a rant.
Can DH write a business plan and get a bank loan for his charter boat business? That would seem a logical approach to this situation.
Or, can DH get a job on someone else's boat as a tour guide? We have them here, and they are not piloting the boat, just entertaining and instructing about what people are seeing.
Can DH write a business plan and get a bank loan for his charter boat business? That would seem a logical approach to this situation.
Or, can DH get a job on someone else's boat as a tour guide? We have them here, and they are not piloting the boat, just entertaining and instructing about what people are seeing.
He needs the boat fixed asap so he doesn't lose time on the water. Up here if you don't have the money in hand by and of March, you are waiting forever for your boat. I would think it would take at least 2 months to write a business plan and secure a loan. Plus, I do not want to go ONE MORE PENNY into debt. So DH has agreed that I can arrange for an automatic withdrawal from his SS to return to our bank account.
How do you feel about that solution?
I am sad and scared.
But we have come a long way from when we were in a worse position, and I am trying to support DH in what has the potential to be a fulfilling venture for him and a lucrative one of both of us. But it's a risk.
I am sad and scared.
But we have come a long way from when we were in a worse position, and I am trying to support DH in what has the potential to be a fulfilling venture for him and a lucrative one of both of us. But it's a risk.
I am sorry you feel sad and scared, that's not good. I was wondering how much somebody could make doing this and google found this article which you have probably seen but I am going to check it out because it looks relevant:
Want To Charter Your Boat To Make Some Money? Here Are Some Real Life Examples of How That Works (cruisingodyssey.com) (https://cruisingodyssey.com/2019/06/11/want-to-charter-your-boat-to-make-some-money-here-are-some-real-life-examples-of-how-that-works/)
Well I looked at the article and it doesn't really look that relevant because the guy charters out really big boats and it's super expensive to moor them, so probably not a very helpful article. sorry
I am sorry you feel sad and scared, that's not good. I was wondering how much somebody could make doing this and google found this article which you have probably seen but I am going to check it out because it looks relevant:
Want To Charter Your Boat To Make Some Money? Here Are Some Real Life Examples of How That Works (cruisingodyssey.com) (https://cruisingodyssey.com/2019/06/11/want-to-charter-your-boat-to-make-some-money-here-are-some-real-life-examples-of-how-that-works/)
Thank for for the article! Very interesting. Our situation is differently. Slightly less risk in that it is a much smaller boat. Plus, DH would be the captain and host. It would be like one of those city bus tours on the water. He is a performer and already has a lot of historical information about the islands he would share.
And Tybee, he's really excited about your suggestions about doing burial at sea with with cremation ashes!
It is a very difficult situation.
I have an idea from friends who have dive charter boats how much they are money pits, even though friends do a ton of their own work.
Did you ever look into the insurance?
iris lilies
3-22-24, 7:48pm
Forget about Ramit, here’s what Dave Ramsey would say:
Time for DH to get a job so he can accumulate the $22,000 to pay for the boat engine. You don’t need to pay for that.
I had no idea your boat was that big. I had no idea it would require that kind of engine. It is too bad that your boat will be out of commission while your husband is earning the money to repair it. This is not your problem. This is his problem. Let him solve it
iris lilies
3-22-24, 8:55pm
Can DH write a business plan and get a bank loan for his charter boat business? That would seem a logical approach to this situation….
sorry, I do not think this is a logical approach at all. I do not think it’s a logical thing to take out a loan on a business like this. This is a hobby business. It’s a funsie, make-a-little-money-to-fund-the-boat business.
I am astonished that this boat costs that much. I figured it was a used boat, a family boat, it was maybe $10,000 -$15,000.
But If the motor is $22,000 I can’t imagine how much the entire thing is. I do not want to know. I’m just saying: no money goes to the boat and certainly no LOANS. Meaning, no interest is paid to the boat. Ever.
catherine
3-22-24, 11:12pm
sorry, I do not think this is a logical approach at all. I do not think it’s a logical thing to take out a loan on a business like this. This is a hobby business. It’s a funsie, make-a-little-money-to-fund-the-boat business.
I am astonished that this boat costs that much. I figured it was a used boat, a family boat, it was maybe $10,000 -$15,000.
But If the motor is $22,000 I can’t imagine how much the entire thing is. I do not want to know. I’m just saying: no money goes to the boat and certainly no LOANS. Meaning, no interest is paid to the boat. Ever.
The boat is not a huge boat--its a 22 ft. pontoon boat. When you buy these boats, the engines alone are half the value of the boat. This particular engine is a particular kind that apparently only lasts for 600 hours. It's ridiculous. The company is now out of business.
Anyway, I agree with you that I am not going into debt for this thing.
I thought of another one, Champy Cruises!
happystuff
3-23-24, 10:27am
So sorry that you are depressed and saddened by the current circumstances, catherine. Personally, I like that you are still supportive of your dh and the future business plans, as it does sound very viable to me. No advice about the engine and its cost. I am someone who normally saves for big purchases and am willing to wait so that no debt or loans are needed. I find it hard to believe that only ONE brand of engine will work for the boat - so is there any way for dh to put out feelers for a used motor/engine that would work?
iris lilies
3-23-24, 12:41pm
to circle back to the topic Ramit
sethi:
I have been listening to/watching Ramit and he certainly does have a different style from Dave Ramsey.
I will confess to liking the episodes that make me go “what the actual fk!” when delving into a couple’s finances.
There was a recent one where the husband had made giant tons of money sporadically. They had no savings. They had several children. The wife is a part time massage therapist so she’s not going to earn all that much. They recently sold a piece of property and are now renting their home. They put all of their financial gain into a venture capital oil operation. That made Ramit actually sputter.
That kind of financial recklessness would scare the beejesus out of me.
I will try out an episode, but so far, what I have read from him has not grabbed me or supported me the way the Dave Ramsey stuff has. I really like being out of non-mortgage debt and hope to get back to no mortgage soon, but I guess we will see. Waiting to see how DH comes through all the heart stuff testing and hip replacement to see what he feels like tackling in his new state of health.
I second what happystuff says about supporting our spouses and having them support us--I tend to be way more risk averse than my DH and have probably shut down opportunities for him that I should not have. But I am so security oriented, and wish to never go back to that place in time when I had to sell my engagement ring to buy groceries for my children. It's hard to not want to build a very big wall between me and that kind of experience.
I second what happystuff says about supporting our spouses and having them support us--I tend to be way more risk averse than my DH and have probably shut down opportunities for him that I should not have. But I am so security oriented, and wish to never go back to that place in time when I had to sell my engagement ring to buy groceries for my children. It's hard to not want to build a very big wall between me and that kind of experience.
I get that...
Also, thanks happystuff and Tybee. I admit to having been supportive when I shouldn't have, so that makes my decision here very difficult. I don't want to get burned. OTOH, I see this situation as very different from the other.
BTW, I love the name "Champs Boat Cruises" but we are looking for a name that will come up high in an SEO. We have good ideas, but I don't want to post them here out of respect for DH's privacy at this point. Maybe later.
iris lilies
3-23-24, 2:55pm
“ support” comes in many flavors. Catherine probably made a good compromise to use an existing income stream to fix the boat, I mean good for her situation. It would not be good for me if I had any debt and I would not allow my spouse to get me into debt for something that is not essential.
I think she held her boundary of “no more loans “and that’s very very important at her (and our) stage of life. I remember there was a time when Catherine was paying off his old business debt, and I don’t need to know if that is still happening, but that is something that formed my opinion in this matter.
Catherine, I just cringed when I read your original post. You have my sympathy. I hope DH gives up the business idea, to be honest.
I hadn't thought about Champs like Champions! Cool coincidence. I was thinking about tours looking for Champy, the Lake Champlain version of the Loch Ness Monster. . .
“ support” comes in many flavors. Catherine probably made a good compromise to use an existing income stream to fix the boat, I mean good for her situation. It would not be good for me if I had any debt and I would not allow my spouse to get me into debt for something that is not essential.
I think she held her boundary of “no more loans “and that’s very very important at her (and our) stage of life. I remember there was a time when Catherine was paying off his old business debt, and I don’t need to know if that is still happening, but that is something that formed my opinion in this matter.
Thanks, IL. Yes that was a big business loan I wound up paying for a while--until we consolidated that debt and a couple of others with a refi. Thankfully, the situation that made that venture fail does not exist anymore, and, as you said, I am not going into debt for this one. It's not an ideal situation, but I feel much more confident that he can pull this off and if he can't, ... well, we'll cross that bridge when we get there.
I agree with iris. The boat is not your problem Catherine. The boat tour thing was never going to be a big money maker so don’t go into debt for it. I understand that your natural instinct is to want to help people when they ‘need’ money for something but this is a situation where your DH needs to figure out how he’s going to fix this on his own. 600 hour lifespan of a boat engine? That sounds crazy. Maybe he needs to just get an old Detroit diesel that will last forever. Otherwise he’ll be replacing the engine every year and that would turn the financials of his boat business on it’s head.
Portuguese John Here
3-29-24, 3:26pm
I don't really like the title of his book: I Will Teach You To Be Rich
iris lilies
3-29-24, 6:57pm
I don't really like the title of his book: I Will Teach You To Be Rich
You have to know what he’s going for. He wants to have people connect the dots between what they value ( their “rich “life ) and a financial plan to get there.
it is related to classic Joe Dominguez philosophy about spending money on what you value, drill down to figure out what you REALLY value. Don’t spend money mindlessly on everything, but identify the things that give your life “richness. “
iris lilies
4-2-24, 2:59pm
Ramit’s show was great today.
He is counseling a married couple in their 30s who makes $80,000 a year and live in a modest house where their mortgage is only $500 a month. On the surface, they should be able to manage just fine, but they are spending 100% of what they make. Clearly the wife has a spending problem.
So Ramit was delving into their payments and came across an expensive telecommunications charge for their eight-year-old daughter. He asked them “does she really need this phone?”
The wife said yes, she wants her daughter to have it for safety.
Then BAM! Ramit made the observation That this little girl is not safe. Her parents are one paycheck away from disaster. Her parents have no savings. This is not a stable, safe environment.
The rude awakening I had while reading his recent newsletter about the people whose net monthly income is $45k a month is that many of their living expenses were in line with mine! Their mortgage was at least 5x more than mine ($6750 vs 1331) and I don't have child care, but otherwise, my fixed costs were WAY too similar to these people making millions a year. Ramit chided them on having a "guilt-free spending" line item that was "abysmal" in that it was TOO LOW for their income, but still....
This couple is worried about their future because they are in tech and are afraid that AI will replace their jobs, so they are putting 25k in investments A MONTH! Ramit says:
"Right here, this tells me that they are playing life on defense. They are so far ahead of almost anyone else and yet they still feel worried. Because they tell me that they're immigrants from India, a culture which I understand, I can tell you that they're probably going to go the rest of their life worrying about money, thinking they're behind, agonizing over tiny expenses and never actually zooming out and recognizing that they have already won the game. They could get laid off and they would be fine and that in and of itself is unlikely to happen."
Very interesting. Where "worry" sits on people's roadmaps relative to their financial situation is really interesting. I don't like worrying about money, yet I do. But I feel I have a right to. I truly try to live like the admonition in the Bible to "not worry about the morrow; the morrow has worries of its own" and "Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin, yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these" but it's not that easy to put into practice.
The topic of "worry" vs one's financial standing would be an interesting topic to explore in another thread.
iris lilies
4-2-24, 4:00pm
Ramit’s show was great today.
He is counseling a married couple in their 30s who make $80,000 a year and live in a modest house where their mortgage is only $500 a month. On the surface they should be able to manage just fine, but they are spending 100% of what they make. Clearly the wife has a spending problem.
So Ramit was delving into their payments and came across an expensive telecommunications charge for their eight-year-old daughter. He asked them “does she really need this phone?
The wife said yes, she wants her daughter to have it for safety.
Then BAM! Ramit made the observation That this little girl is not safe. Her parents are one paycheck away from disaster. Her parents have no savings. There is no safety and stability in their home.
I don't know, that sounds stressful to me, to listen to that, with the BAM thing happening, and someone saying my kid wasn't safe living with me. I mean I get the point but jeesh, talk about "thank God I am not like other men."
Maybe that is what people need but it's not an approach that helps me.
Catherine, I hope you start a money worry thread, interesting topic.
iris lilies
4-3-24, 1:10pm
I don't know, that sounds stressful to me, to listen to that, with the BAM thing happening, and someone saying my kid wasn't safe living with me. I mean I get the point but jeesh, talk about "thank God I am not like other men."
Maybe that is what people need but it's not an approach that helps me.
Catherine, I hope you start a money worry thread, interesting topic.
This video is getting many positive comments saying this couple is like so much of !America and Ramit needs to have more like them on his show rather than the high earners he usually has.
So, what facts would you give to this couple to convince them they are spending money on the wrong stuff IF they claim to value safety and security? He really does try to honor people’s stated values.
iris lilies
4-3-24, 2:19pm
The rude awakening I had while reading his recent newsletter about the people whose net monthly income is $45k a month is that many of their living expenses were in line with mine! Their mortgage was at least 5x more than mine ($6750 vs 1331) and I don't have child care, but otherwise, my fixed costs were WAY too similar to these people making millions a year. Ramit chided them on having a "guilt-free spending" line item that was "abysmal" in that it was TOO LOW for their income, but still....
This couple is worried about their future because they are in tech and are afraid that AI will replace their jobs, so they are putting 25k in investments A MONTH! Ramit says:
"Right here, this tells me that they are playing life on defense. They are so far ahead of almost anyone else and yet they still feel worried. Because they tell me that they're immigrants from India, a culture which I understand, I can tell you that they're probably going to go the rest of their life worrying about money, thinking they're behind, agonizing over tiny expenses and never actually zooming out and recognizing that they have already won the game. They could get laid off and they would be fine and that in and of itself is unlikely to happen."
Very interesting. Where "worry" sits on people's roadmaps relative to their financial situation is really interesting. I don't like worrying about money, yet I do. But I feel I have a right to. I truly try to live like the admonition in the Bible to "not worry about the morrow; the morrow has worries of its own" and "Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin, yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these" but it's not that easy to put into practice.
The topic of "worry" vs one's financial standing would be an interesting topic to explore in another thread.
tangential comment: the “ lilies of the field” were, most likely, iris. Lilies don’t grow in that part of the world. Iris, on the other hand, love desert lands.
tangential comment: the “ lilies of the field” were, most likely, iris. Lilies don’t grow in that part of the world. Iris, on the other hand, love desert lands.
So I guess Jesus was a Good Shepherd but a Bad Botanist.
iris lilies
4-3-24, 2:40pm
So I guess Jesus was a Good Shepherd but a Bad Botanist.haha!
but of course we don’t take much of the content of the Bible literally.
In the end, there are two deliberate paths to wealth. Spending less, or earning more. While there's a balance of those two in any successful strategy, Sethi is definitely in the camp of earning more, with an apparent belief that abundance will befall you if you work hard and spend hard.
I've been spending less, saving more and generally under the radar for almost three decades now. (Sometimes very far under the radar. :|( ) I'd have to say it's working, even if it's not the most exciting lifestyle.
iris lilies
4-3-24, 3:26pm
Bisbee dweller.
long time no see sister. Hope you stay for a while or at least stop by again soon.
Me too. I have missed you guys. I tried to sign on two years ago and couldn't, and figured I'd been banished, and then life got in the way again.
I am, sigh, no longer a Bisbee dweller. Karen, Indianapolis, Bummer. Lol.
I tried to sign on two years ago and couldn't, and figured I'd been banished....
No way! We're an old school styled diversity, equity and inclusion site, but in the literal sense not in the new fangled figurative way. :cool:
Glad to see you back, you know you're always welcome here.
How great to see you!!!! I agree about the spending less than you earn and flying under the radar.
Yay, kib!! Great to see you back!
Kib: I am also in Indianapolis. Going on 44 years now. Live downtown and like it.
So I guess Jesus was a Good Shepherd but a Bad Botanist.
I would gently suggest that he might not have been the best financial advisor either.
Nice to see you here, Kib. Sorry you had to leave Bisbee for the cold! spend less is my way of getting on. It's worked and I am happy.
I would gently suggest that he might not have been the best financial advisor either.
I don't think financial advisor was part of his career path for sure.
No way! We're an old school styled diversity, equity and inclusion site, but in the literal sense not in the new fangled figurative way. :cool:
Glad to see you back, you know you're always welcome here. Thank you Alan... Gracious as always :)
How great to see you!!!! I agree about the spending less than you earn and flying under the radar.
Thank you, Tybee! I've always felt like yes, I could spend more and the opportunities for earning more would probably be there, but that's never really been a world I wanted to deeply participate in. I'd rather keep it all, well, simple! and get on with the other parts of living!
Yay, kib!! Great to see you back! Thank you, Catherine!
Kib: I am also in Indianapolis. Going on 44 years now. Live downtown and like it. I'm feeling a bit displaced, this is my first go-round with the midwest.
Nice to see you here, Kib. Sorry you had to leave Bisbee for the cold! spend less is my way of getting on. It's worked and I am happy. Thank you! Right now I'm really missing Bisbee, but I probably won't be quite so sad about it in July!
Hi kib, Welcome back! I am another trying to spend less and fly under the radar!
Welcome back, Kib! What prompted your move?
Hi kib, Welcome back! I am another trying to spend less and fly under the radar! Thank you, happystuff!
Welcome back, Kib! What prompted your move? Thank you, Rosarugosa. It was primarily my husband's promotion opportunities and the fact that his family lives here. My mom's in PA so a lot closer, too. ... This is a matter of trying to thrive where I'm planted, for the time being. There's just nothing about the place that's calling out to me, so the roots are pretty slow growing! Probably winter blues as much as anything, I'm hoping spring is indeed a time of renewal.
Me too. I have missed you guys. I tried to sign on two years ago and couldn't, and figured I'd been banished, and then life got in the way again.
I am, sigh, no longer a Bisbee dweller. Karen, Indianapolis, Bummer. Lol.
Hey, welcome back! There’s nothing wrong with the Midwest!
Thanks, Tradd. You're right, of course. It's a perfectly fine place, I'm just not feelin' it yet.
Thanks, Tradd. You're right, of course. It's a perfectly fine place, I'm just not feelin' it yet.
You’ll have a good view of eclipse, won’t you? 95% here in the Chicago area.
Well, Kib, you are closer to Lake Michigan...probably good summer produce...We spent a week in Mishewaka once and had frozen custard, toured Notre Dame Univ. , husband played golf, toured the chocolate factory, went to lake Michigan which amazed me- it has tides and waves and the sand doesn't stick to you like ocean sand. Not sure about tornados and snow storms...Let us know what you find that helps you feel more rooted. I would imagine the lack of light is noticeable. There's something about the clarity in the desert states that is stunning.
Yes, Indy is in the "path of totality". So assuming there isn't cloud cover at the time, our yard may be the perfect viewing point. My MIL is coming down for the event, I hear that there may be a couple extra million people in the area. Hubs has joked we should sell tickets to park on the lawn.
Well, Kib, you are closer to Lake Michigan...probably good summer produce...We spent a week in Mishewaka once and had frozen custard, toured Notre Dame Univ. , husband played golf, toured the chocolate factory, went to lake Michigan which amazed me- it has tides and waves and the sand doesn't stick to you like ocean sand. Not sure about tornados and snow storms...Let us know what you find that helps you feel more rooted. I would imagine the lack of light is noticeable. There's something about the clarity in the desert states that is stunning. The hardest thing, honestly, is probably my own pride. I chose Bisbee on purpose for the weather, yes, but mostly the social climate ... after 25 years, I had a life there that felt mindful and deliberate and connected. This feels like being blown randomly. I may be attributing things to Indy that have happened everywhere - less community, people struggling and less connected, a different mindset that feels so foreign to me as I age. I used to know about those things, now I'm actually experiencing them. Big girl panties, Kib!!!
Well, Kib, you are closer to Lake Michigan...probably good summer produce...We spent a week in Mishewaka once and had frozen custard, toured Notre Dame Univ. , husband played golf, toured the chocolate factory, went to lake Michigan which amazed me- it has tides and waves and the sand doesn't stick to you like ocean sand. Not sure about tornados and snow storms...Let us know what you find that helps you feel more rooted. I would imagine the lack of light is noticeable. There's something about the clarity in the desert states that is stunning.
Yes, the Great Lakes are “inland seas.”
Give Indy a chance and some time. Both times I did a big move (AK to IN, IN to NC), it took almost a year to settle and feel less like a stranger. Find your tribe whether church, hobby group, exercise group, neighborhood, etc. There are still neighborhoods with good community established.
Give Indy a chance and some time. Both times I did a big move (AK to IN, IN to NC), it took almost a year to settle and feel less like a stranger. Find your tribe whether church, hobby group, exercise group, neighborhood, etc. There are still neighborhoods with good community established. Actually my neighborhood, a little blip off of Allisonville Road, is pretty awesome, a group of die hard older people who've mostly been here for years. But we bought next to an empty lot, and a gigantic house double the size of anything else has sprung up practically overnight, a two story monstrosity looming in our every window to shame every little house around it, and the people who live there might as well be ghosts. Except for occasionally coming out and removing every bit of vegetation other than the sod from a property formerly bursting with life and magnolia trees. I'm SO regretting not buying that lot when I had the chance!! Anyway, I really do appreciate my other neighbors. Maybe not exactly like minded, but nice people.
Kib: almost all the empty lots are now full in our neighborhood. $1M houses plunked down next to what used to be called cracker box houses. In a few neighborhoods, Habitat for Humanity houses compete with $500,000+ houses and they look the same. Worst examples are when something is not "matched" in size to the neighborhood. There is a beautiful container house, one of the first in Indy, dropped on a tiny urban lot. No yard, views, or comparable houses around it. There is another that looks like a 3+ story candle stuck next to two old fashioned one story low roof homes.
Welcome back, KIB!
Bisbee is a special place and must have been hard to leave
. I know what you mean about its "social climate."
I was last there in 2005 and recall thinking of you at the time.
There was an earlier incarnation of this website, but I cannot remember its inception date. Some of us had different handles, but yours was KIB even then. I used to enjoy your posts.
I hope you are feeling more comfortable soon.
Welcome back, KIB!
Bisbee is a special place and must have been hard to leave
. I know what you mean about its "social climate."
I was last there in 2005 and recall thinking of you at the time.
There was an earlier incarnation of this website, but I cannot remember its inception date. Some of us had different handles, but yours was KIB even then. I used to enjoy your posts.
I hope you are feeling more comfortable soon.
Hi, Simone, thank you! I remember so many of the people here, in fact I often have thought about them even while I've 'been away'. It's amazing the stuff we remember, isn't it? Bae's daughter had a pet rat named Priscilla, but he called her Fang. Yes, my brain hangs onto the silliest details!
Once upon a time I was Karen In Bisbee, until someone pointed out that might be TMI to put out on the internet. I once actually met people IRL who said oh my gosh, You're Karen In Bisbee? Maybe my closest brush with fame, ha ha. (and I thought Oh My Gosh, me and my big mouth, what do these strangers know about me!!)
I even had a handle before that, but I don't remember what it was. But yeah, I've been circling, diving and swooping here for a quarter of a century! :0! (Before being a Karen was a bad thing, haha.) Maybe I should now be Karen, Indianapolis, Beginning Again. Kiba. Hmm.
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